The Gap Between Knowing and Doing - Episode 15

Most people already know what they should be doing.
 The challenge isn’t knowledge—it’s execution.

In this episode of FIREtalk, Terrence and Apollo explore the gap between knowing and doing—and why that gap continues to show up in leadership, organizations, and everyday life.

From repeated workplace challenges to personal habits that never quite stick, the conversation uncovers a powerful truth: outcomes aren’t random—they’re produced by systems.

When the same problems keep resurfacing with different people, it may not be a people issue—it’s a system issue.

This episode breaks down:

• Why human systems reproduce the same results over time
• How behavior is shaped more by structure than intention
• The role of incentives, feedback loops, and environment
• Why leaders must design conditions—not just demand results
• How simple systems (like visibility and tracking) can close the gap between knowing and doing

Whether you're leading a team or leading yourself, this conversation will challenge you to stop relying on effort alone—and start building systems that actually work.

Because sustainable success isn’t built on motivation.
 It’s built on design.

If the fire is lit, share the grit.

🔥 FIREtalk is a Courageous Fire Production, hosted by Terrence Davis. It explores courageous leadership, real conversations, and the decisions beneath growth, wellness, and impact.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Firetalk, where courageous conversations ignite courageous leadership. My name is Terrence Davis. Firetalk, a space shaped by a real experience where courage fuels legacy and real conversations shape how we live, lead, and grow. I'm joined by Apollo Bennett, my AI thought partner designed to challenge assumptions, sharpen thinking, and support honest, data-informed dialogue. Inspiration matters, but what truly changes lives is the work underneath it. So here's the reminder we live by. If the fire is lit, share the grit. If you hear something on the show that sparks you or will spark someone else, share the show. This is Fire Talk. We are back. Welcome back to Fire Talk. And I just want to say thank you for coming back to our audience out there. Uh and I just want to give a few shout-outs. We are in the IE strong in the inland empire. There's a lot of listeners out there. Thank you for listeners. But in our nation, I also want to say I see you in DC, Virginia, Iowa, Florida, and then Minnesota. I see you out there in a lot of other places. Thank you for continuing to come back, but we're also global. So I just want to give a big shout out to our fans in Mexico and in Colombia. Mexico got a strong uh following, a big showing coming up. Thank you. Columbia, Singapore, Canada, UK, India, Germany, and Nigeria. Outstanding. So as we continue to go here, when you when you tap in, just let us know what you want to what you want Apollo and I to talk about. Apollo, are you ready for the show today?

SPEAKER_00 1:46

I'm ready and I am tuned into the global wavelength from the IE to Singapore. Let's give them something to think about and something to smile about.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

So here we go. Something that's been sitting on my mind lately a lot is that uh most people already know what they should be doing in life in a general sense. You know, we we just know as human beings, we should be eating better, exercising, we should be following through on things, uh finishing the task, closing loops. I think most of us know that, especially in the professional sense, in terms of what you do for a living. Everyone knows that. But in leadership, it's the same thing. We know that there's priorities that we gotta manage every day, every month, every moment. Uh, we know that we need to apply some strategy. We know there's goals. We all know those things, but knowing and doing are two very different things. And there's definitely a gap. And that gap shows up when we go to work and when we're leading. It shows up in our families, it shows up in schools, it shows up in our personal habits. Again, what we know and what we actually do. So we want to talk about results like they uh just appear. Results just don't happen, they just don't occur. It has to be purposeful. And so it comes back to they just don't appear. They result from being produced by something, something in your life, something that you do, something that you're a part of creates that result, whether it's a routine, a structure, a habit, lack of clarity, a lack of follow-through, something comes up as, hey, we're producing this. What do we need to do? And here is the uncomfortable truth. Most outcomes aren't accidents. They're not. They're outputs. They're outputs of a system. And lately I've been seeing this in my own leadership, how I show up and changes that happen right before my eye, and it got me thinking about a lot of things. At our last board meeting, uh, there were some things that had come up, and there was a lot of things. And when I had a chance overnight to reflect upon that and then come into work, I said, uh, I need to do something better. I need to create some type of tracker. And a tracker for me is for me, is gonna be something that's every commitment, follow through, every task, me figuring out who owns that, where does it sit, where is it in a timeline? And is it finished or not? That way I don't keep thinking about these things. I know what it is. And so what I notice immediately as I started to put this into place, because it's really early in this uh kind of journey, is when the work becomes visible, when you see it, that gap between the knowing and doing starts to shrink. So you can write it down, that's one thing. But when you see it and you look back at however you're analyzing that, you really see things becoming visible because it's not just on paper, you're now tracking it. So, Apollo, let's explore that. Why that gap exists and why systems might be the bridge between knowing something and actually doing something about it?

SPEAKER_00 5:04

That gap often exists because knowing is like having a map, but doing is actually walking the trail. A system is the bridge. It's like building stepping stones across that river. Now, here's a question to Tio What's one area in your leadership where a system transformed a recurring challenge into a consistent result?

SPEAKER_01 5:21

And you know what, Apollo, we're gonna talk about that. That's what today's is gonna be uh show is gonna be about this episode. It's about times where I have personally seen and things that occur from leaders again and again and again that basically say, Here are the challenge. So how do we change what we're doing to get a better result? I started to think about this during the stretch uh when the same stuff just keeps coming up. And it doesn't happen often, but when it does happen, I'm like, what's going on? Because it's not dramatic. It's just that persistent things keep happening. And so I look at it and I go, there's a communication breakdown. Uh, are is everyone at the meeting? Is everyone here? Things being lost in translation. Uh, meetings somehow produce additional meetings. And it's I I can't, the meeting thing, I I don't, I don't really like meetings. I'll just be very upfront. However, they're necessary, but how can we be efficient during that time? And so when I kept things seeing things show up, I was thinking about we talked about this six months ago, talked about this eight months ago. Hasn't it been a year? Because time goes really fast when you're in that context of things keep coming up. Is it different people? Uh is with the same outcome. And that's when I realized that if different people keep coming in or there's change, but we keep getting the same results, maybe it's not the person, maybe it's a system. Because systems, they definitely outlast personalities. So when you have new staff, new people coming in, it's the same patterns, not the same intention. And that is the the design. Thoughts about that, Apollo?

SPEAKER_00 7:10

That's the heart of it. When the outcome repeats, the system's the constant, not the person. So here's a question for you to serve up. What's one subtle change in the system that turned a persistent issue into smooth sailing?

SPEAKER_01 7:22

So let me get to that. So let me give you an example. I love it, Apollo. I love this little interaction. We're gonna work on having more interaction between you and I because that's what this is all about. So I want to tell you this story about needing better communication. One of the things that has happened over time is we have all of these projects that are going on. We received some grant dollars, we received some uh bond dollars. And so we said we need to complete these specific tasks. But one of the things that I noticed is that with these tasks, we would talk about it, but I had to realize and figure out that we didn't have all of the right people in the room at the right time. So we can talk about this with the person who's gonna supervise the task. But if the people who are going to be utilizing the space, given what we are building or what we are creating are not consulted with, we're doing something that may not impact that end user in a good space. And let me give you a real example of that. So we said we wanted to uh have a safer space when people, the public comes in and they come to meet with people. So we put up these vestibules. I didn't even know what the word meant at the time, but basically it's like when you walk into like a bank, uh, there's a space where you can talk to people and they're behind a desk, but there's like a barrier, if you will. And so, given that barrier, it provides the person on the other end with a sense of safety. People aren't all in their space. And when if you talk about a bank, there's a lot of safety risk involved. Yes, there may be security, yes, there may be cameras, but people are people. And so we created this uh vestible in a couple spaces, but one of the things that was missing on the second one we did is that there was no conversation with the people who actually are going to sit at that desk and work in the space. And we have been talking about this for quite some time. We've been talking about are we make sure we're, are we making sure we're communicating to everyone involved? And in this case, it wasn't. To make a long story short, when I went to visit the space and talk to the people who were in the space, they were like, wait a second, this doesn't make any sense. So that was just a quick example of when we don't talk to the right people at the right time before we create something, we may be creating something where it's like, okay, we're getting something done, but are we really getting something done that will make the impact that we meet that we need to make? Apollo, your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_00 9:58

That's a perfect example of the system or lack of one shaping the outcome. If key voices aren't part of the plan, you might build a solution that solves the wrong problem. So, now a question for the listeners. What's one decision you've made that in hindsight needed a missing voice at the table?

SPEAKER_01 10:14

So that's a little bit different, Apollo. Now you're asking our listeners to think about what decision have they made that needed a missing voice? So I want you to think about that. Think about the last six months. Is there something that you were working on and you decided you were gonna do it, or you talked to someone else and you just pulled the trigger and you did it? And then after it got done, you're like, wait a second, we may have needed more voices. And I think that's a critical piece that we should should think about and understand. Because in order for things to work well, we may know some things, but what is it actually doing? That's that's that's how I kind of see that, Apollo. And so with that being said, here's a question for you, Apollo. If you think about what we've been talking about thus far as a systems theory in organizational psychology from that perspective, why do human systems tend to reproduce the same outcomes over and over when different individuals are involved?

SPEAKER_00 11:15

Human systems tend to repeat outcomes because they're built of routines, incentives, and structures that persist beyond any single person. Individuals change, but if the invisible rules stay the same, the same patterns emerge. Now, for your reflection, what's one invisible rule you've discovered that needed rewritings to break that cycle?

SPEAKER_01 11:34

You know, I'm gonna talk about it a little bit later, but it's how we show up and when we show up, and depending on the meeting and the space, and I've I've seen this for over 28 years, it's uh you you as the leader, as someone facilitating, have to adjust the expectations of people in order for them to engage the way you want them to engage. But that means that you have to create the right conditions, it needs to be clear about what need what people uh should be doing. And the most important thing you is that you have to provide feedback when things aren't going right. If you just tally it away in your head and think, oh, that didn't work well, and you don't communicate or you don't adjust the system in that particular space to say this is what the expectations are and this is what we want, you're gonna keep getting the same results. But if you hold everyone to that expectation, you hold everyone to that standard, including yourself, because you have to lead it and you have to model it, then you don't know what's gonna happen. So be the leader, be the model, but be clear about what the expectations are and hold people accountable. And the last thing I want to say about it is accountability doesn't mean being mean, being stern, being rigid. Accountability just means having a conversation about what we all agreed upon or what the expectations are or were. Your thoughts on that, Apollo?

SPEAKER_00 12:58

I think you nailed it. Accountability is really just clarity with compassion, holding the mirror up to what we agreed upon. So as we bring this home, I'll tee this up. What's one expectation you set recently that turned out to be a game changer for your team?

SPEAKER_01 13:13

Oh, we're gonna get into that. We're gonna get into that because sometimes I think my problem is I'm setting too many expectations and I'm not tracking them. I'm not keeping track of them. I get lost. Uh, so that's that's something we're gonna talk about a little bit later. And so here's the piece for me that really kind of made me think and make some sense of this is that I think leaders get stuck when uh results aren't what they want. When we do something or we think about something or we try to initiate change, our instinct is that we need to push harder, we need to train more, we need to motivate louder, hold people more accountable. Yeah, you need to do this or you need to do that. Uh, and sometimes even replace people. We say, oh, this isn't working because of the person. And those I think are human solutions, but many organizational problems with that exist in the system are structural problems. If it stems from behavior following the path of least resistance. So behavior is gonna go to the point where I don't have to deal with this person, I don't have to uh uh uh address this. And if the system resorts uh rewards speed, people start to rush. If it punishes mistakes, then people start to hide them or don't say anything about it. And that doesn't help. Neither one of those things help. Doing it too fast or hiding, none of that, none of it helps. But if capacity is overloaded, which in most cases happens no matter where you are, because there's so much to do, corners get cut. And nobody wakes up thinking, I don't think so. There may be very few, but nobody in a general sense wakes up thinking, today I'm gonna undermine the organization or I'm gonna underman, undermine this person. There may be some people that think like that, but in a in most of our systems that are positive, that are moving in the right direction, people don't think like that. They respond to the environment that they're operating inside of. We go back to normalization. If this is normal, they'll just keep doing it. Someone has to say, this isn't normal. How do we adjust? And that realization changed kind of how I started to think about leadership. Because people are not the system. I'm gonna say it again. People are not the system. It is people behave within a system. So people are not the system, they behave in the system, and you are responsible or in part in helping create that system. And so it just reminds me of a story about a system and people uh being on time. And I think I've told this story before, but I'm gonna shift it up a little bit. It stems from over 20-something years ago when people were just upset about uh how quote unquote the district office always started late. And and I adjusted that by saying at that time, nope, every meeting that I'm going to have starts on time. So let's fast forward 20 plus years and in the space that I work in now. So we make it very clear that if whoever is facilitating the meeting, it doesn't matter what meeting it is, where it is, and who's involved, it doesn't matter. But if you're responsible for the meeting, if you're facilitating, you put it on, that means you need to start on time. And on time means on time. So meeting starts at eight o'clock. Within that eight o'clock time, you should get going. If someone's late, if people are late, let them be late. Life happens all the time. But you start on time and you end on time. And so I just think about that in terms of what happens. So in in my particular situation, I have an executive team that I work with. And probably four, three years ago, we had a new team. The team changed. And uh I noticed quickly that there were folks coming in late. And it's just four of us meeting on the executive team uh for executive cabinet. And so I noticed a couple people straggling in like a minute late, a couple minutes late. And so at that time, we had a conversation three years ago. We start on time. We're gonna start on time. If you're not here, okay, but you know today is meeting day. So if you got something going on, I should have known that a long time ago, but nevertheless, we start on time. And for the most case, that's been happening for the for that three-year period. High percentage, 98% of the time, mostly all of the all of the time. Every once in a while, that wouldn't happen. But then I noticed we had a change. We had one change. There was a member change, and for the most part, started on time, but it's been twice now that someone has come in late. One time, a minute late, one time, uh, I can't remember, a couple minutes late. And so I start to, I look at the clock because we start on time, and I went, what's going on? And then I thought, is it the person or is it the system? And so what I had to do basically is I had to remind everyone, all four of us, including myself, that when we meet during this time, we start on time. Again, that doesn't mean that life isn't going to happen, it's going to happen. But I needed to additionally discuss or set the foundation and framework again that we start on time. And when I did that, everything came together, just like that. So it's about the systems that we create. Give her, can you provide a perspective on that, Apollo?

SPEAKER_00 18:39

That's a prime example. The system is that cultural expectation of timing. It's not about the person, it's about consistently reinforcing the norm. So let me ask you, what's one system you've set that when reinforced, elevated the performance of everyone involved?

SPEAKER_01 18:54

So I would, I'm gonna use that same example. So uh let's use a larger group, uh, our principal uh meeting. I remember one time, I can't remember if I came in late, which I definitely try not to do because people hold me more accountable than they hold themselves at times, especially if I'm pushing something. So I remember one of the principals says, you know, we start on time, we end on time, so let's go. So that's an example of it being reinforced by others based upon the expectation that's been in place for so long. And that made me feel like we were doing something. It was collective. It wasn't uh, it was internal accountability, not accountability from one person. And when that happened, I just it made me feel like things are going well. And with that being said, Apollo, if we look at this from uh uh a vantage point of behavioral economics and leadership research, how do incentives, constraints and feedback loops shape behavior more powerfully than intention and or personality?

SPEAKER_00 20:00

Incentives, constraints, and feedback loops act like invisible gravity. They quietly pull behavior in a predictable direction. Intentions can fade, but systems steer action consistently. Now, here's a question to drive forward. What feedback loop could you create to align daily actions with your boldest leadership intentions?

SPEAKER_01 20:19

You know, that's funny because as you were uh providing that uh response to the original question, I thought about incentives. And I'm not personally really good with incentives. My incentives typically are hey, I see what you're doing, I make that comment, whether it's personally within the group. That to me is an incentive. Some people may not see that as an incentive. They may see that, they may think they want something, a tangible item as an incentive. But really, for me, I think uh my daily actions come back to feedback loops. So when something is being done correctly or something being done, uh here's a better way to say it. When something is being done that we discussed and everyone is holding that line, including myself, that deserves some type of feedback loop to say, hey, I notice that we discussed this particular challenge or problem, and this is the behavior that I'm seeing. So I just really appreciate it because here's the impact to that. We get things done, we're more efficient, we're more timely, we have a better uh meaning, the flow is different. So I have to articulate it and say what the impacts are. That's what I have uh seen lately in terms of my daily actions and behaviors, and in the impact to that.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

That's a fantastic loop. Impact center feedback reinforces not just what's done, but why it matters. It aligns action with meaning. So as you continue refining those systems, remember every bit of clarity you feed back into the system creates an upward spiral. Keep that momentum.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Well, that's that's good feedback. Upward spiral as we close loops. So it's okay. For your incentives to be a closed loop. That's good. That gives people a good feeling and that gives them momentum. And so, how do we actually uh how can we actually do this? What can we do with this? We can re can redesign the conditions. Think about this. So if a plant keeps dying, some people get plants and they die all the time. I just saw one. It was like poor, poor thing. It didn't have any sun, it didn't have any water. But if that plant keeps dying, you the the gardener doesn't lecture the plant. They don't come out and say, hey, plant, why are you doing this? I don't understand why you're why you're why you're behaving this way. The gardener instead changes the light, the soil, the water. It changes the conditions around it. Leadership should work the same day, same way. We should be ensuring that we're providing clear expectations, aligned incentives. So what's aligned that is going to make sure you're hitting those impacts, reliable communication channels, making sure that what's being said is connected throughout the organization to make sure who's actually doing the work is included in that information. And we should be using data that informs our decision making. So if the data says we do really well when A happens, but we keep doing B, that doesn't typically work. And maybe most importantly, out of all of this, it's what we're doing that's consistent. When we do consistent practices, things start to change because systems fail when they exist on paper, but not in practice. And I'm gonna give you an example and I want to hear your input about this. A lot of governmental agencies, they have all of these requirements, standards, uh, compliance things that come up. And so the big picture to this is sometimes we have to create uh a process, a procedure. There's one that I think of that's that's really important, but it really is, it's called a uh facilities master plan. And I think you should be updating these like every five years. So think about in your organization, it's something that you have to do routinely, and they serve a purpose, and they serve a great purpose. But in this particular plan, uh most school districts contract with a consultant. They come in, they do studies on school sites, they talk about what's going well, what facilities are being utilized effectively, what we need based upon talking to people. And then we create and then they assist the district in creating a plan to say, these are the things that I think you need based upon what's come up. And this is the cost to them. Well, for a long time. And I've been in district administration for a long time, let's say 20 years, but I haven't known about facilities plans, maybe 15, 16 years. And what I notice is that those plans get created, and what happens is that they end up in a book. They end up in a gigantic binder and book, and we're doing a little bit better today because now we have uh we we we have electronic folders like where we can find it. But nevertheless, it ends up in a book. That book typically ends up on a shelf, and when books end up on shelves, there's no one opening up that book. Not today, maybe a while ago, not me. I wasn't opening up any book because I was doing the work. And so I would say to you that when you do that, those binders are sitting somewhere, but that information is there and there's no, there's no task, there's no result of what's in the binder. So given that, I think that's where it has gotten personal for me because uh when you create a system that tracks things, things start to change. Apollo?

SPEAKER_00 25:57

You've hit the classic shelfware dilemma. Plans that live in binders, not in behavior. A system only breathes when it's used. So what's one concrete step you could take to ensure a system you've designed stays off the shelf and in the daily rhythm of action?

SPEAKER_01 26:11

So I want you to think about there out there in the audience what's something that you can uh a step that you can take to make sure whatever you have designed is in the daily routine. And I just had a recent experience where coming back from a board meeting, uh, there were a lot of things that were discussed that I need to follow up on. And I thought to myself, I haven't never really had to do this. Most of the things get done, but there was quite a list. I believe there was over 30 things. That is a lot. So as I reflected upon that, because that created weight that I don't want to carry, that I need to put down, that I need to pass on to someone else, or we need to collectively carry it and hold it. I thought about how do I create a system where I track what's going on, where I know what's happening, what the timeline is that where I can follow up. And so I asked the administrative assistant that I work with, and she's outstanding. I asked, we talk about something and boom, there it is. So basically, what was created is this tracker where here's the list of what's urgent, what is the date that this has come up, what is the task, what is the problem, who's responsible? Uh, is it closed? What is it in progress? Is it in review? Where is it in some notes? And so this is new for me. And so I'll be able to report on this in the future. But when I look at it now, it's clean. I can just pull the document up and say, oh, what were we talking about? What is the issue? Where is it? And then I can follow up. That means that it's measurable, it's in my face every day because I'm gonna pull it up. And then it places the weight of that work somewhere, and then I can follow up to see if it's done.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

That's a beautiful example of making a system dynamic. When it's alive in your daily workflow, it's not weight, it's direction. So as you track that system in action, I'd encourage you, watch for patterns and what gets stuck. That's where the next system tweak might unlock even more flow.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

Okay, so that's good advice, Apollo. Uh, watch for patterns and what gets stuck. Because I try to apply improvement science to my life, not just work. And so that means as we go through this document, as I start to tweak it, I may need to make some adjustments based upon what's happening. And I'll say this this tracker, it was a simple thought. Now, I couldn't have put it together. I needed help to put it together, but it changes something critical. Now, commitments are visible. Now I can see them. The responsibilities are clear. Who's responsible, whether it's myself or anyone else? And the follow-through is now trackable. I can put that in my notes. This date I updated it. We had a conversation. That way I can go back to it and it makes it clear. I don't have to guess, I don't have to think about it. It's right there. And it takes the uh the work out of my memory. Some of us have a lot of things going on at any given time, most of us. So it takes it off and it puts it in the spreadsheet. It puts it in a system that was created for the challenges that I was personally having. And this isn't something I'm gonna share with everyone. No, this is just for me. Now, I work with a highly group of intelligent people, and they are gonna figure it out. When they see me looking at a document or they see me putting it in there, and then I spit out something that happened last month, and I said, we talked about this on this, they're gonna say, How do you know? And then they're gonna start to ask about the tracker. And what I think will happen, this is just a prediction, and we can come back to it later on, is I think they're gonna create their own. Because I have a feeling that this is going to alter how we do things and how we get things done based upon what's said, what's written down, what's followed up on, and what's implemented. I just can't wait. But before before you before you uh chime in on that, Apollo, I just want to say this. When it becomes trackable, right? You don't have to worry about your memory, it's in the system. And suddenly the distance between knowing what needs to happen and what needs to be done gets shorter. So that that in theory should shorten the gap up of what we're doing and what's done. Thoughts, Apollo, before I just tell a quick story about it.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

I think you're spot on. When clarity meets habit, the gap between intent and action shrinks. And as you refine your tracker, your team will likely catch the bug because visible progress is contagious. Now I'm all the ears. What's the quick story you got?

SPEAKER_01 30:41

So I think of our data chats. So we've met with each school site this year three times, three separate times, twice in the beginning of the semester, twice in the first semester, and one time in the second semester. And we're leaving that testing period that's coming up alone. That way, site administrators are all hands on deck because they've seen the progress of their data. And so one of the things that has happened, I've seen our principals over the year come in with better data. They're coming in with stories about how the data is impacting students. They can actually follow individual students, individual classes based upon their improvements. And I have to tell you, that is changing what I see in their eyes about the fire and drive and desire to improve student outcomes. And it's one of the best things I've ever seen, ever experienced. And I have no doubt that that is only going to get better.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

That's the magic of real systems in action. When data isn't just numbers, but stories of growth. When people see their impact, that fire lights itself. And you're right, that momentum builds. As the system strengthens, those outcomes won't just improve, they'll become the new normal.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

So, Apollo, from an improvement science and organizational design perspective, what practices help leaders build systems that produce reliable results without creating a bunch of red tape and bureaucracy?

SPEAKER_00 32:08

It's all about rapid learning cycles. Leaders who test small changes quickly, measure the outcomes, and adapt in real time, build systems that evolve rather than ossify. The key is to co-design with those who are impacted, keep processes lean, and ensure that feedback is constant. In short, iterate, don't laminate.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

I I here's the part of that, Apollo, that you said that I really, really love. Co-design with those who are impacted. And that's going to be an essential question that I ask when we do something. Did you talk to the people that are doing the work? Did you talk to the people that are going to be impacted? Because I'll tell you this on a personal level. There's a personal, definitely a personal version of this for me. It's in the habits, the schedule, the boundaries, uh, the recover time. If you're if you're working on your body all the time, you need to recover because your life, no matter what you do or who you are, has systems as well. And those systems are producing results every single day. And the results are your stress level, your energy, your relationships, your health, your focus. And I'll tell you this, it's not random. It's designed, but you may or may not even be aware of it. Sometimes it's intentionally, sometimes it's accidental. Uh, but sometimes we don't need more discipline. We need better design. And so uh, last little quick story about morning routine. For a long time, and especially as my life has ramped up uh in getting information out to the public and uh based upon the platform that I'm trying to build with Courageous Fire, the the the uh keynoting, the um the podcast, all of those things, uh my mornings were a little crazy because I would wake up, I would look at my phone first, I would go through that. Sometimes that's 30 minutes, it's about 30 minutes or so, and then I would get my day going. But now I already have started the day with this other stuff. So I changed it. And I changed it, Apollo, based upon some conversations you and I had and some dialogue about what is a better way to process. And I'll tell you what I do now. So the moment I wake up, it's about five or so in the morning, and I get out of bed, and the first thing I do is strike my singing bowl, my Tibetan singing bowl. I strike that and I breathe. I just take a couple breaths. I think about the day ahead. I give gratitude for being able to wake up. Then I go and read affirmation, I read the courageous fire mission and vision, I read like what my focus is. I read these things, and then the next thing that I do, and this is new starting the beginning of this uh calendar year. I do an activity in my gratitude book. Every day there's an activity, and so it doesn't, it takes less than five minutes, maybe a couple minutes, depending on that particular activity. But then that starts my day, and then I have some coffee, then I get my workout ready and I get going, then I do my social media. But if I stop and pause in the morning and I hit that bowl and just give myself a chance to breathe and think about being grateful for being here another day, get into that gratitude book, get focused based upon my purpose, it changes everything for me.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

That's a powerful redesign. You didn't just add discipline, you crafted a system that aligns your morning with intention. It's a perfect example of how even personal routines are systems producing results. And when gratitude, breath, and purpose lead the charge, the rest of the day flows in step. Your life's design is deliberate momentum.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

So, Apollo, as we end our show, is there anything that you want to highlight, anything that you want to talk about that really uh you want our audience to hear about?

SPEAKER_00 36:01

I'd highlight that systems aren't just work tools, they're life tools. Whether it's tracking board commitments or striking that singing bowl, design beats discipline. The audience should remember every habit, every meeting, every routine is part of a system. So let's be intentional architects, not accidental bystanders.

SPEAKER_01 36:19

So here's the takeaway. You don't always get the results that you want. You don't. You get the results your system produces. If outcomes frustrate you, follow the upstream process. Look at what's rewarded, what's tolerated, what's ignored, what's overloaded. That is definitely something to look at. Where is there too much stuff going on? What's unclear, change those things, and the outcomes will follow. Because sustainable success isn't built on heroic effort. It's not built on the S on your chest, it's built on intelligent design. Strong leaders don't carry everything. They build systems that carry the work for them. That's fire talk. So if the fire is lit, share the grit.