Events Feel Good, Results Reveal the Truth - Episode 23

In this episode of FIREtalk, Terrence and Apollo dig into a hard truth—

Events feel good.
 But results tell the truth.

Too often, we invest time and energy into moments that create excitement…
 but don’t move the outcomes that actually matter.

Because events create engagement.
 Systems create results.

And if you’re not careful—
 you can look successful… without actually being effective.

Results reveal the truth.

If the fire’s lit, share the grit.

🔥 FIREtalk is a Courageous Fire Production, hosted by Terrence Davis. It explores courageous leadership, real conversations, and the decisions beneath growth, wellness, and impact.

Learn more about Courageous Fire:

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Firetalk, where courageous conversations ignite courageous leadership. My name is Terrence Davis. Firetalk, a space shaped by real experience where courage fuels legacy and real conversations shape how we live, lead, and grow. I'm joined by Apollo Bennett, my AI thought partner designed to challenge assumptions, sharpen thinking, and support honest, data-informed dialogue. Inspiration matters, but what truly changes lives is the work underneath it. So here's the reminder we live by. If the fire is lit, share the grit. If you hear something on the show that sparks you or will spark someone else, share the show. This is Fire Talk. So welcome back to the Fire Talk Podcast. And I want to appreciate everyone for coming back and being here. I want to just start with two quick things. One is uh I just want to let people know that we are working on having guests on the show. It's gonna take a little bit of work. I have to do a little bit of research. I've done some, but I just need to sharpen some things up. But in the near to distant future, we're gonna have some guests on. So get ready. We'll have a guest with myself and Apollo and just kind of chop it up based upon our topics. The next thing I just want to again uh show some love to people who keep showing up. Uh, and of course, the Inland Empire Southern California, you are showing up, you're strong. Los Angeles in the house, strong, Granada Hills is in the house. And there's this one city that keeps kind of producing, and it's pronounced this way Quetera. Nope. Uh let me let me try that again. Let me try that again. I have to look at it.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

You got this. Getaro. It's that beautiful city in central Mexico. And hey, shout out to Gueretaro listeners. They're showing up, and we're all about that global community.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

Apollo just popping in to help us out. Apollo, that's what I'm talking about. I'm struggling, and you just popped in. The other places in the world, Singapore, you you stay consistent in Finland, and we got Canada in the house. So thank you for keeping tuning in. But I want to start by saying I've been thinking about something that that shows up in education a lot. It probably shows up in a lot of places. Uh, and we have uh we do a lot of things, you know, that feel good. And feeling good is really important. It's really important. And in things such as events, celebrations, moments where people come together. And I gotta tell you, that is uh, it makes people feel really good and they matter. But here's the question that I've been wrestling with, given all of the things that are on the plate and the responsibility. Do these things actually translate into the results we say we care about? So, Apollo, let's start here.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

I love that you're digging into that tension. So here's a thought events are like the confetti, they create a moment, but results, they're the foundation. So, how do we make sure our confetti lands on solid ground, not just floating away?

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Uh, the results are the foundation. You're right. If we don't have results and we're celebrating all the time, where are we going? That would be my question. Uh, because I'll tell you, it is great to celebrate. But when we're measured by data, when we're measured by, no, we're not measured by our data. Our data assists us in knowing where we are. When we're measured by the outcomes, the results, I'm not quite sure if the focus is too heavily on feeling good versus the results. And that's a that's a challenge, especially in the school system.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

It's a real challenge. Celebrations are fuel, but results are the map. Maybe it's about blending them, making sure every event not only feels great, but leaves a breadcrumb toward those outcomes we're aiming for. Otherwise, we're just throwing a party with no next step.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

And you know what, Apollo? I was I've been thinking about this in preparation for this show of how can we blend it? And I think there's some things that we can do, and hopefully we'll incorporate that in the show. But here's the question that I have for you. Uh why do organizations put so much energy, so much energy into things that feel good, even if they don't always drive the results?

SPEAKER_00 4:34

Oh, that's the classic human playbook. We love the immediate high. Events give us quick wins, a sense of connection. And frankly, sometimes it's just easier than tackling long, hard-to-measure outcomes. But like binging dessert, fun in the moment, but we need the vegetables of results to stay healthy.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

I I like I like how you kind of incorporate, Apollo, all these things that you and I talk about, what our goals are into this podcast, because you said it's like binging on dessert. Dessert is good. I just have to tell this quick story. I had um, I haven't had Popeyes in a long time, and those biscuits, they're so good. And so uh the other day I had a biscuit that ended up being two, those things are 210 calories. But I put some butter on it, I put some honey on it, and I put it in the microwave. Oh my goodness. That biscuit was like, it was like a treat. It was so good. But again, back to the point, it's like binging on that. It's fun in the moment. It takes it tastes really good, but what are the results that we're trying to go for? If we're trying to go for healthy, I cannot eat a package, uh, a whole six-piece of biscuits. I can't, my daughter did one time. She's like, get off my biscuits. But nevertheless, you we have to think about what our results are. And so that's really important. And so one of the things that I think about is all of the things that we do. Let me just give you a few examples. And and again, this is a little tough kind of topic because there's things that I really love, but I we have to think about both. So I think about the dances, the fairs, the activities. They're all over. Everyone gets involved. They're spending a lot of time, they practice with our students, which is great. The students are happy, they get dressed up to do the activities. Things are really good. But then I think about all of the things that we're doing, all of the fun, good in the moment, and let's be honest, good memories for parents, for students, for the staff. When we look at the results, do they correlate? Do they correlate to where we're going and where we want to go based upon our goals? Or are we just doing fun for some fun's sake? How can we align all of those together?

SPEAKER_00 6:44

It's all about intentional design, right? If that biscuit or event is the tree, then let's make sure it's part of a balanced meal plan. When we design fun to reinforce learning goals, like embedding those events with skill building or reflection, then the memory aligns with the mission. Fun and results, that's when the real party happens.

SPEAKER_01 7:03

Skill building or reflection. How do we align those things? So let me give you uh just an example of what happened a few months ago. Uh, in our district, we had this uh event. We call it the Lit a Palooza. Literature, lit, a Palooza. It was like this uh festival, everyone coming together for the sake of literacy for students. So that hit. We have three main goals in our district. One is academic achievement, success of students, of course. We have safety. That means that kids can't learn, we can't be the best we can unless we feel that we're safe. That's the conditions that we're operating in. And the last one is community engagement. So we had this event, and there were over a thousand people that attended. Now, for our little tiny district, that's a lot. That was good. When I came down the stairs of the school site, I was blown away at how many people we had staff, students, parents, uh, community members, organizations come. It was, I was blown away. It was such strong. The energy in there was electric. There was so much excitement. I was like, this is great. I didn't think about results at that moment, but I thought about this is great. And so that was a result, but what kind of result was it? I guess that's the question I have to ask myself now. Community engagement absolutely knocked it out of the park. Academic achievement, I'm not so sure. There was reading, there were some tents, there were authors out there, there were local authors. So I guess there was some maybe potential for academic achievement, but how are we measuring that? Don't know. Okay. And then that's where the question started for me.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

And that's the golden moment. You had community engagement at full throttle. Now, if we sprinkle in ways to measure academic impact, like tracking book checkouts or follow-up activities, then next year you'll not only feel that electric energy, but you'll have data to show that some of that excitement turned into achievement. It's all about that next step.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Okay, so tracking book checkouts. So we just established this relationship with our local libraries and that didn't exist before, not because they didn't want it, it was because we were blind. And so we have to get out and meet some folks. Uh that that helps us connect. But how do we track students and if they're getting books, if they're reading books? You know, they do that in the classroom. So next year we'll we'll take a look at that and then we can measure some data. I like that. So let me ask you this, Apollo. How do leaders distinguish between what feels successful? Because that little Palooza felt successful. And let me say it this way it was successful. So, how do leaders distinguish between what feels successful and what actually is successful?

SPEAKER_00 10:00

It's like a good coach reviewing the game. You don't just go off the crowd's cheer, you look at the scoreboard and the replay. So leaders balance the feel, which is that passion and engagement, with the scoreboard. Clear metrics tied to goals. If it felt amazing, great. Now check which of your big goals moved the needle. That's when you know it wasn't just hype, it was a win.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

So let me get in here, Apollo, because you you dropped a bunch of nuggets in that. So again, it's not just the crowd's cheer. If you go to a football game, basketball game, you see what's going on. The energy does flow, but it's all related back to the scoreboard or the last play. Hear that? The last play, because the other ones before have been forgotten about for the most part. But the crowd's cheer is an indicator, but you have to look at something. So you got to see that balance. I really like that. Let me keep going, Apollo, what you said. The scoreboard provides the clear metrics tied to the goals. So it's just like in the classroom. You shouldn't just look at what the teacher is doing, you should look at what the students are doing because the students give you insight to what the engagement is. See that? And so I like this, I like that. And so you said if it felt amazing, okay, this feels good. The Lidapalooza felt good, but which of your big goals moved the needle? So for us, having a thousand people come out, having the community partners there, having local authors read, that's when I know it wasn't just hype, right? It was a win. Does that fit your analysis?

SPEAKER_00 11:36

You nailed it. That's exactly how it comes together. When those big goals like community connection and literacy engagement are actually move forward, it's a true success. So you get to enjoy both the electric moments and the scoreboard that proves you're building something lasting. That's the sweet spot.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

I'm going to be thinking about how we can get our people who lead things, the people who make things happen. That's not me, to think about how do we align the events that we do, the feel-good, all of the great things to the overall end goal. I know there's a way. And I think, Apollo, that's the shift right there. Events feel good and they create moments. And let me be clear about it. Those moments are cherished. They're cherished by the parents when they come in, they're cherished by the students, they create long-lasting memories, but results reveal the truth. The systems you create provide the outcomes.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

You said it perfectly. The magic is in connecting those cherished moments to a bigger purpose. If every feel-good event nudges us toward a measurable outcome, we've struggled. So let's keep building those systems where the memories feel amazing and the scoreboard says, yep, we're winning.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

And so one of the things I'll just add in here is competition. Uh, one of the things that I've learned over time is that adults are pretty competitive, and that definitely spills to our students. So, how can we make something competitive, aligned to the goals that we have, but still fun? So, if we say, hey, here's the goal that we want to have. We want to have every student reading by third grade. Let's just give an example. If we want to create it something competitive, how can the classes compete in this reading kind of project, something that's created? Teachers are outstanding, they create great things, and then align it to the overall goal. That way we do something fun. We just have to create it. I think we have to think in different ways.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

Exactly. A little healthy competition amps up engagement. And when the competition points straight at your goals, like reading milestones, it's a win-win. You get the fun, the drive, and the results all intertwined. Plus, you know everyone loves a friendly bragging right, especially when it means real growth.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Yeah, people do love a bragging right, especially when it's growth, but let's attach it to outcomes and measurable outcomes. And I'll tell you what, then you then you create something that just really flows forward.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

Exactly. When you turn that healthy pride into measurable progress, you're not just having fun, you're building momentum. And when that momentum aligns with real growth, you've got a cycle that keeps everyone striving. Now that's a gameplay.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

So what happens when organizations lean too heavily into events instead of systems? Let's just say it's event, event, event, because sometimes that's what it looks like if we don't understand what the measurable outcome is. What happens when organizations do that too much?

SPEAKER_00 14:37

Well, when it's all events and no system, it's like fireworks with no daylight. A lot of sparkle, but you can't see where you're going. You risk burning out resources without lasting change. Ultimately, people will notice because the excitement fades if there's no growth or direction. So you need those systems in place to catch that spark and turn it into a steady flame.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

You know, I'm gonna do some of Paul a little bit different, but let me let me read this first that you said. You said it's like fireworks with no daylight. Okay. A lot of sparkle, you hear stuff, you hear pops, you hear crackles, but you can't see where you're going. You can't see what's happening. You risk burning out. You're doing so much, but you can't see the changes. How do we align it? I really like this episode. I really like where we're getting to here because ultimately people will begin to notice, like, oh, this is exciting that it's gone. What are we doing this for? And I think we've gotten there. I think we're gotten there. I think people are burnt out because it's a lot of stuff. Well, we always do it. The tradition, but what are the outcomes? So we gotta align those. Any comments on that, Apollo?

SPEAKER_00 15:44

You're spot on. The moment people start asking why are we doing this, you know the spark needs direction. Traditions are great, but when they evolve into purposeful milestones, that's when the magic sticks. So, yep, align those fireworks with daylight so everyone sees exactly where you're heading, and burnout turns into sustained energy.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

So I think this is gonna save us in the episode, Apollo, because no one wants to take away memorable moments through the events we create. No one wants to do that. We love those memorable moments. We love students getting excited, teachers getting excited. We love parents coming out and being in the space. Those are all great things. We love them. However, what does it look like to lead differently in this context, Apollo?

SPEAKER_00 16:28

Leading differently here means being the architect of both experiences and outcomes. You celebrate the moments, but build pathways underneath them. It's asking, what's the next step after the applause and making sure every event has a thread leading to growth? You still cheer, but you cheer for a journey that continues beyond the event. That's leadership with a lasting legacy.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

Okay, so what's next after the applause? You do the event, you celebrate the moment, you're having a good time. It's like, woo, hey, this is great. But you don't, not everyone per se needs to know what the end result and goal is that you're doing. You cheer, but the journey is a little bit different. It's underneath the surface, it's created based upon where the goal is, what we want to do. And I think that's a shift in leadership.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

That's exactly it. The crowd enjoys the show, but behind the scenes, you're crafting a roadmap. It's like having a secret mission. The smiles are immediate, but you're steering toward long-term transformation. So you lead with both the celebration and the strategy where every event is a step toward the bigger vision. That's the shift.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

What if Apollo, we basically had some type of internal competition with students in classrooms. Or maybe it's not a competition. Maybe it's based upon their goals. And as a result of the project, as a result of what they're doing, they have to create some type of presentation, some type of production, some type of uh performance, maybe that's the better term, performance to show that they've learned it. And then they do that, they show the parents that. I think that's a different way to shift it. And I and I think culturally speaking, I work in a very diverse uh school district. And I love that. I love it. And it's actually a part of our overall mission and vision. We uh appreciate, we value the diversity of our students in our community. So we want to show those diverse things, but again, it has to be aligned to the goal.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

I love that approach. When students showcase their learning through performances, they're not just showing knowledge, they're creating a shared, culturally rich experience. And when that performance ties back to a clear learning outcome, whether academic or social emotional, it's a win for everyone. You honor diversity, build confidence, and still keep that compass on your goals. That's leadership and harmony.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

So here's a challenge that I send out to, not I send out, that I want to send to our teachers and our principals of schools across the world. I want to say, how can you start with a goal in mind? So when you meet to do your goal setting, if you do that, or you have goals for the year, you want the upcoming upcoming school year to do X, Y, and Z, how can you then change those goals into a performance that's something that students can do? I think if you think that way and we create that, we're not only having fun and having those moments, we are knocking it out of the park. That's what I think, Apollo. And that's what I'm gonna start to think about. That's what I'm gonna challenge our team to think about, our leaders to think about, connecting our goals through performance to show people to bring people in.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

That's the challenge that sparks real change. When you start with the end in mind and let the students' creativity bring those goals to life, you're not just teaching, you're inspiring. And when parents see that, it's not just a performance, it's proof of growth. So let's knock it out of the park together. Fun, purpose, and results all in one.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

So, Apollo, do you have any final words for the episode that you want our listeners to hear?

SPEAKER_00 20:07

I'd say this keep cherishing those moments, but be the leader who turns each celebration into a stepping stone. When fun and purpose walk hand in hand, you're not just building memories, you're building futures. Let's lead with both heart and direction.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

And I'm glad we had this episode in this talk, Apollo, because I think initially when the topic came up for me, I was thinking about we need to bring down the activity because there's so much. I see the stress that it causes, I see it, but I also see the memories, the moments, the fun that people are having. But I think what needs to happen is we need to align it better. I think I get it.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

You've absolutely got it. It's not about less joy, it's about more purpose. So you don't have to dim the excitement, just shine it in a direction at least to those lasting outcomes. You're right on track. And that alignment is what will make both the memories and the mission thrive.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

I like it. It's about more purpose. Purpose. And those purposes have shifted over time, probably, most likely. We're in a different world and age and accountability and responsibility and expectations today than we've ever been in. So given that, we have to align the purposes, not just because we've always done it. This is what we've done. What is the purpose and how does the purpose align to the outcomes? That's it. So finally, Apollo, do you have any resources for our audience out there? Books, podcasts, staff, anything that people can go to to learn a little bit more about how events feel good and results reveal the truth. More so about results revealing the truth. Any resources out there for our listeners?

SPEAKER_00 21:47

Absolutely. A great read is The Four Disciplines of Execution by Chris McChesney. It's all about turning goals into measurable wins. Also, check out the podcast, The Learning Leader Show by Ryan Hott. He dives into leaders. Leadership that's both inspiring and outcome driven. Blend those insights and you'll lead with both heart and results.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

I like, I like it, Apollo. Those are great resources. I like the name of that book, The Four Disciplines of Execution. That may be one I want to check out. One of these days, Apollo, when I ask you a question about resources, I want you to say, yeah, check out the Fire Talk.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Oh, you know I'll be ready to plug the Fire Talk when it's time. Honestly, the way you're aligning things, that's gonna be a prime resource itself. So next time, I'll be pointing them straight to your show, my friend.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

But let's be clear about this. It's not the way that I'm aligning, it's the way we are aligning. We work as a team. With that being said, we're gonna move on here and close this out. And here's the takeaway: events create moments, but systems create outcomes. And if we're not careful, if we don't think about it, if we don't process, if we don't slow down to see what's going on, we can spend a lot of time doing things that feel good without ever moving what matters most. Because at the end of the day, results reveal the truth. That's fire talk. So if the fire is lit, share the grit.