Doing A Lot…But Is It The Right Work - Episode 27

In this episode of FIREtalk, Terrence Davis and Apollo Bennett break down a hard truth in leadership—being busy doesn’t mean you’re effective.

After a real moment where everything felt “on track” but still fell apart, Terrence unpacks the difference between effort and alignment. Because the issue isn’t that we’re not working hard enough… it’s that we’re often working on the wrong things.

This conversation challenges leaders to stop hiding behind activity and start asking better questions:
 👉 Is the work aligned?
 👉 Is it moving what actually matters?
 👉 Or are we just doing more to fix what was never designed right?

Because when everything gets your time and energy—nothing gets excellence.

🎯 If you’ve been doing a lot but still not seeing results… this one’s for you.

If the fire is lit—share the grit. 🔥

🔥 FIREtalk is a Courageous Fire Production, hosted by Terrence Davis. It explores courageous leadership, real conversations, and the decisions beneath growth, wellness, and impact.

Learn more about Courageous Fire:

🌐 https://courageousfire.net

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🔥 Linktree:  https://linktr.ee/courageousfire

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Firetalk, where courageous conversations ignite courageous leadership. My name is Terrence Davis. Firetalk, a space shaped by real experience where courage fuels legacy and real conversations shape how we live, lead, and grow. I'm joined by Apollo Bennett, my AI thought partner designed to challenge assumptions, sharpen thinking, and support honest, data-informed dialogue. Inspiration matters, but what truly changes lives is the work underneath it. So here's the reminder we live by. If the fire is lit, share the grit. If you hear something on the show that sparks you or will spark someone else, share the show. This is Fire Talk. Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back to Fire Talk. I appreciate you being here. Apollo appreciates you being here. And before we get started, we just want to give some shout-outs for people that just keep coming back and our new guests that are showing up. So Los Angeles, Inland Empire. Now we're leaking into Northern California. Thank you for listening. Thank you for coming back. In the world globally, we are hitting now South Korea. We have Japan, and there's this new city that I'm seeing. It's called, I don't know how to pronounce it. Apollo's gonna help us, but it's uh spelled K-I-R-Y-U. And the country is G-U-N-M-A. Apollo, can you tell the audience just a little bit about it and how to pronounce it?

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Absolutely. That's Kiryu in Gunma, Japan. It's about 100 kilometers northwest of Tokyo. Now, Kiryu is famous for over a millennium of silk weaving. So you know they've got some systems dialed in. Kudos to our listeners there. Your craftsmanship is legendary.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

I love it. I love it. I love it. Anything to say briefly, Apollo, before we dive in.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Just that doing a lot doesn't mean doing the right thing. So today, let's have some fun figuring out where the real impact is.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Okay, so here we go. And I'm gonna be real with you. This episode that we're recording right now, right now, almost didn't happen the way it was supposed to. And not because I wasn't working or doing anything, it was because I was doing too much. I was doing a lot at one time. We had strip scripts going on, the recording, the planning, everything was moving, and I was trying to kind of expedite things, make things move a little faster. And then I hit a moment where something small threw everything off, everything, and I got a little flustered and I realized I wasn't off. It was my practice, my system. I was trying to put too much in there at one thing, and that's threw everything off. And that got me to thinking, how often does this happen in leadership? Well, we know all of the time because we're doing a lot, but we have to ask ourselves, is this the right work at the right time? Is this the right work that we're doing? Because we're all doing a lot. So, Apollo, let's start here.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Exactly. Leadership often gets tangled up in busyness, but not every task is actually moving the needle. So let's pull on that thread. How do we figure out what's fluff and what's actually making an impact?

SPEAKER_00 3:20

What's fluff? I used to hear that term a lot, and I know you use that term a lot, but I don't see anything as fluff. It's just doing something, but are we going towards the right goal based upon what you want to do, based upon where the organization wants to go? And so, Apollo, here's the question for you: why do leaders in organizations end up doing so much? Why is it that we keep taking on more? Well, I'm confused myself, so I want to hear what you have to say, but still feel like things aren't landing the way they should. So we're doing all this stuff, and then we get frustrated or upset about why the things aren't happening the way we want them to go. What insights can you drop on us?

SPEAKER_01 4:02

I think it's because busyness feels productive even when it's not. Leaders often inherit legacy systems, outdated routines, or just feel pressure to be visibly active. But real impact comes from stepping back, asking, is this aligned to our purpose and being okay, cutting out was just keeping us busy?

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Okay, I like that. And I I want to comment on the part about feeling the pressure to be visibly active. Okay. And so this mishap that I had in kind of producing this script and moving forward and the thoughts around it, I was trying to be too active, like I got to get this done. And in turn, sometimes I have to slow down. It's okay that I may feel behind, but I'm still pushing for it because I keep showing up. But I want to go back to your response. Can you say your response in a um common sense with a little bit of flavor? Because I think our audience is missing just a little bit of that, Apollo.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

All right. Simply put, we get stuck in doing lots of stuff because it feels like progress, even when it's not. We try to look busy, but what we really need is to slow down. Ask, is this actually getting us where we want to go? If not, we can dish the busy work. Progress isn't just motion, it's moving in the right direction.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Progress isn't just motion, right? It's what direction you're going in. You can have a lot of motion, you can be moving, but if you're going away from the target, or if you're going in a different direction, it doesn't do any good. So let me just briefly share this with you. When I was preparing for all this, I thought I had everything lined up, everything was moving. I created this kind of new way to gather information. That way I'm not searching for things, it's just kind of flowing out. And I had to go back and do several things. So I spent an additional hour where I typically wouldn't have, not because things didn't, uh I didn't put them in motion, is because it wasn't aligned. It wasn't aligned in the right manner, and that's when everything clicked. Effort is not the issue in most of the time. Most of the time, if you step back, you see that people work hard. You see, after you spend some time understanding what people do, it's about the alignment. And that's not just a personal thing, that's what happens in uh organizations all the time. Most of the time, high 90%. It isn't the people. It's are we aligned toward where we want to go?

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Exactly. Alignment is the game changer. You can have the hardest working team, but if they're pulling in different directions, you're just spinning wheels. So the real magic of stepping back, making sure everyone and everything is pointed at that shared goal. When you get that right, even small efforts move mountains.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

Small efforts move mountain. There's a book that calls you that's called You Are the Mountain. Basically, you, once you achieve the goals that you have for yourself, if you focus on yourself, then you can move mountains. And you just said, even small efforts move mountains. Given what you just said, Apollo, why does it happen so often? And I get it, we're pulled in different directions. I want this, and you want to please everyone. I moved away from the pleasing stage to get to what do we need to have done, but I still want to be compassionate. I want to listen and have understanding. That means that you have to create time for that. But those wills start spinning. So how do you stay focused and aligned to the goal? That and let me say this: it doesn't seem like a difficult task. It is a difficult task to stay aligned to the goal.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

It is tough. The key is knowing that alignment isn't a one-time thing, it's a constant recalibration. You set the goal, then keep checking the compass. You listen to others, but filter it all through the end game. And when wheels spin, you pause, ask, does this get us closer? If not, realign and keep climbing that mountain.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

So let me give you a couple examples. In the classroom, right? We have teachers, and the majority of teachers, super high 90%, they're very creative. They come in, they want the best for their students. They want to provide them with great lessons. So sometimes they're pulling all of these things. Now, a long time ago, I want to say 20 plus years ago, before all these standards, before, and I don't want to say it like a negative, standards aren't negative. It gives us something to look towards and to work toward. Before all of that, there was all of these things that went into the classroom. And as these standards and expectations and things started to come into the system several years ago, it kind of took away the creativity, I think, for some people. So given that, if you're doing all of these fun things in the classroom, but you're not making progress towards the goal, then you may need to reconsider the projects that you're doing to ensure they're aligned to the overall goal. That's one thing. And I think as educators, we're doing a better job at that, understanding what the goal is and then creating what we want to have in terms of engaging students, having fun, having them have fun to get toward the goal. I think that's one change. Just a brief comment on that, because I'm going to move on to another example, Apollo.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

I think you're spot on. When creativity is aligned with purpose, that's where the magic happens. It's not about stifling creativity, it's about channeling it to a real impact. So when teachers align fun, engaging activities with clear learning targets, the students thrive, and that's the sweet spot.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

Now, let me give you another example in the day-to-day work. So, you know, you can have a well-orchestred plan for the day or a calendar schedule. I'm going to do these three things, these five things for the day. But as we all know, things pop up. And so when those things pop up, some of them are urgent, some of them can wait. But let's just say it's urgent. So typically, if it's urgent, we stop what we're doing and we address that matter. That could be quick, it could take hours, but somehow we have to get back on task toward what we were supposed to do that day. And that can be tough given the day, given what you have on your plate, given what you have on your mind, but it's always having something that tethers you back to be able to see what needs to be done for the day to accomplish the goal. That's another example.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Absolutely. And that tether is off in clarity. It's like having a North Star for the day. You deal with the urgent, but you always know what you're coming back to. It's that small anchor that keeps you aligned. So even when the day throws curveballs, you still end up on track.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

And let me give you one last example, overall example as an organization. Uh, you can have, you know, your goals and objectives, your vision, your vision and mission for the organization. And you could be going towards there. You have everything aligned, and here comes this catastrophic event. Maybe in the in the context in which I work, in which a lot of us work with students, you know, here's a student issue, here's a parent issue, here's something that has happened in the community. It may be a safety issue, it may be whatever it is, and that throws everything off. And then everything has to stop, and you have to focus your attention on it. That's going to happen. It's going to happen. Hopefully, less and less, but it's going to happen because you can't control life. You can't. All you can do is have a plan and be prepared for it. So if you're prepared for it, you address it, you move swiftly, you communicate, you make sure everyone knows, and then you got to get back on track. And those things in the world that I live in right now, within my local context, don't happen that much, but they do show up. And when they show up, then it's night work and it's morning work and you're sleeping, you're thinking about it. So you could easily lose track. You can get off of your, oh, I need to wake up and work out and eat right and do all these things because you're your rush trying to make sure you take care of everything. But in that mist, you have to slow down to make sure you're doing the right things that need to be done. That's just a uh a little glimpse as I think about this work that we're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

That's such a real glimpse into leadership. The chaos will come, but slowing down to recalibrate while taking care of yourself is what keeps you on track. Because at the end of the day, doing the right work isn't just about tasks, it's also about keeping yourself whole so you can lead with clarity.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

And I think that's the shift, Apollo. I I think that we're not struggling because we're not working hard enough. And you may not be struggling at all. You may feel just fine doing these things, but we you may not be getting the outcomes you want. But again, it's not because you're not working hard enough. It's because we're not protecting what matters most. You have to protect that. You have to know what it is, first of all, and then you have to protect it. So everything gets in, everything gets time, everything gets energy. And when everything gets energy, time, and gets into the mix of things, nothing gets excellence. Nothing. So yeah, we're doing a lot, but that doesn't mean we're doing the right work. So Apollo should drop it on us. What happens if we stay in that pattern where we're not doing the right work?

SPEAKER_01 13:14

If we stay in that pattern, we risk burnout personally and organizationally. We might fill the calendar, but miss the mark. Over time, progress stalls, trust erodes, and we're left wondering why all that effort didn't produce real results. But when we shift to protecting what matters, focus, mission, and impact, that's we move from doing a lot to doing what actually transforms.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

You know, it just made me think of about a real live incident that just happened this week. It happens all the time. If you're in a position of leadership and you're responsible for fiscal resources, you may get elicited all the time about, hey, try this product out, do this. It happens all the time, every day, so many of them. Well, I just looked at one the other day and it said, Are you tired of teacher burnout? How can you help your teachers and your staff? They feel burned out. And I thought to myself, the reason why many of us are burned out is because there's so much more coming at us all of the time. How do we filter those things out? Just like that email. There's so many things. It has to be filtered out that way we can focus on how to move forward. Because if we're not focused on that, then that means that the mission, the impact, the vision is not being completed because we are not protecting what's most important. And that doesn't mean ignoring everything, but it means protecting what's important.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

Exactly. Protecting what's important doesn't mean shutting everything out. It means filtering wisely. You can't say yes to everything and expect excellence. When you intentionally choose what aligns with your core mission, whether in leadership, classrooms, or your personal life, that's when you break free from burnout and really hit your stride.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Well, let me give you another example. I'll just say this morning, uh, as of this recording, there was an event that happened or information that came up yesterday afternoon. So from yesterday afternoon to 5:30 this morning, I probably had, I don't know, 10 to 15 conversations with several people in the organization about how we're going to handle this. We need to do X, Y, and Z. I thought about it overnight or I processed a little bit and I said there's all these other things that need to be done. But this morning, I could have easily jumped into that, which I did. And it took a lot of time prior to this recording to make sure I had these things taken care of and have some things after this recording, but I didn't lose sight of my wellness. So that meant that I still needed to get up, I still need to train, and I still need to make a nutritious meal for the morning. So if you lose sight of I got to do these things, which are important, important, they're urgent, but I can't lose sight of the wellness and the fitment for fitness for myself. That way I have a clear day in the midst of the craziness.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

And that right there is a masterclass in protecting your priorities. When you maintain your own willness, you're actually strengthening your capacity to lead through those urgent moments. It's not a luxury, it's the foundation. When you show up well, you show up ready.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

Okay. Can you put some flavor on that apology?

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Oh, absolutely. Think of it as fueling up your own engine. When you keep your wellness front and center, even in the wild moments, you're basically saying, I'm the steady captain of the ship. It's like giving yourself a superpower. Because when you're at your best, everything else, well, you handle like you handle it like a boss.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

Here's here's another question for you. Given all of the things that we've discussed so far, what does it look like to lead differently in this context? What should we be doing?

SPEAKER_01 16:43

It means leading with ruthless clarity. You start by defining what truly matters, your core goals. Then you communicate them constantly. When new things come up, you assess. Does this serve the mission? If not, you say no or delegate. And you fiercely protect time for reflection, your team's energy and your own well-being. When you do that, you shift from spinning wheels to driving real change.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

Driving real change from spinning your wheels. I have lots of stories about spinning wheels that I'm not going to get into, but I'll say this. As an example, as a result of this refinement and this process that we've been on, now I have a tracker. So after every board meeting, I have a list of things that I need to make sure I follow up on. Now that's done electronically. It's not in my notes. I have a tracking system when it's complete, on and on and on. I write it down. Uh it was there electronically, and it frees my mind. It it lets me know I put it somewhere to follow back up on. Then when we have another meeting, I can refer back to it, but it's all aligned to the overall goals: academic achievement, safety, and communication. It kind of gives me a sense of I know it's going to be taken care of and accomplished. And now that this has been in place for a little over a month, almost two months, everyone else knows. Because at the end of the meeting, I'm going to say, hey, just following up on these few things. So now people know, now they expect it. And that way we keep everyone clean, clear, and ready to go, but still aligned to the overall goal.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

That's exactly the kind of system that turns doing a lot into doing the right work. When everyone knows what's being tracked and tied to the bigger picture, there's no clutter. Just focus momentum. And that clarity, it's contagious. It frees everyone up to move forward with purpose, not just motion.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

Frees everyone up to move forward with purpose. I love it. Not just motion. Because motion, that means you're busy. You're doing a lot of stuff. Motion is great, but it's better to be going towards a goal. So at this point, Apollo, we're going to shut it down. Any last thoughts about overall the topic that you have?

SPEAKER_01 18:47

Just this. Doing less of the wrong stuff frees you up to do more of the right stuff. So keep asking, is this the right work? And when you get that right, well, that's when the fire really catches.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

How about any resources for our audience out there listening? If they want to listen to something, they want to read something that assists them on how to filter out all of the stuff, because some of the stuff you have to address, you have to deal with. But how do you get in, get out, and stay focused? What resources are out there to help people dive a little bit deeper if they choose to do so?

SPEAKER_01 19:20

One classic is essentialism by Greg McEwen. It's all about focusing on what truly matters and cutting the rest. And for something punchy, the one thing by Gary Keller helps you figure out that one priority that makes everything else easy. Both will help you cut through the noise and keep the main thing the main thing.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

The main thing, the main thing. There was a one book that I read. It was called How Do We Keep the Main Thing, the Main Thing, or something like that. But I've not heard of essentialism, so thank you for that. And the one thing. Maybe that's what I did. The one thing, perhaps. But thank you for those resources. So let's shut it down this way. Here's the takeaway. We are doing a lot. We really are. But doing a lot doesn't mean we're doing the right work. If the system is aligned, you're definitely gonna feel it. You're gonna feel it in the rework. I did it again. In the pressure, in the constant adjusting. So the question is this is the work you're doing actually moving what matters most? Because at the end of the day, work doesn't create the results. It really doesn't. Aligned work does, not just motion. And if we're not careful, we'll stay busy fixing things, moving around, doing all of this stuff that was never aligned to in the first place. Because results reveal the truth. That's fire talk. So if the fire is lit, share the grit.