Pressure Doesn't Mean the System is Broken - Episode 33

Pressure can make leaders think something is failing.
 But sometimes pressure is actually evidence that the system is being tested, stretched, and strengthened. 

In this episode, Terrence Davis talks about leadership during difficult seasons, organizational change, accountability, and how steady leadership matters when the pressure rises.

Because not every uncomfortable season means the work is broken.
 Sometimes the work is working right in the middle of the tension.

If the fire’s lit, share the grit. 🔥

🔥 FIREtalk is a Courageous Fire Production, hosted by Terrence Davis. It explores courageous leadership, real conversations, and the decisions beneath growth, wellness, and impact.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Firetalk, where courageous conversations ignite courageous leadership. My name is Terrence Davis. Firetalk, a space shaped by a real experience where courage fuels legacy, and real conversations shape how we live, lead, and grow. I'm joined by Apollo Bennett, my AI thought partner, designed to challenge assumptions, sharpen thinking, and support honest, data-informed dialogue. Inspiration matters, but what truly changes lives is the work underneath it. So here's the reminder we live by. If the fire is lit, share the grit. If you hear something on the show that sparks you or will spark someone else, share the show. This is Fire Talk. Welcome back. Welcome back to Fire Talk. We are in the space. We're back at it. And as usual, I want to shout out a couple spaces. Definitely the I.E. Inland Empire and LA area. Wisconsin is showing up. Welcome. Welcome to the show, Wisconsin. Ashburn, Virginia is in the house. And globally, Helsinki continues to kind of show up. Thank you, Helsinki. Thank you for being in the house. Mexico and several cities in Mexico are still showing up. We really appreciate you being here. And shout out to everyone listening, everyone leading, anyone who's carrying responsibility in real time. You got stuff to do every day, thinking about all these things, and everyone trying to keep the mission moving forward in a season that feels heavy. So today I want to talk about pressure and not pressure in a motivational sense, like I have pressure and I need to do something, and not like a slogan or just kind of push through, like, oh, we got to push through the pressure. I'm really talking about the real pressure leaders feel, the kind that shows up during transition, you know, when people are moving on, the kind that shows up when decisions have to be made, the kind that shows up when the organization is changing, expectations are getting clearer, and people are trying to figure out what all of this stuff means. And I've been sitting in this, I've been sitting there with this thought for a while that pressure doesn't mean the system is broken. It really doesn't. Sometimes we feel like it, you know, and it's that immediate thought that something is wrong. I'm feeling this way. Something's falling apart, it's not working. Um, that's not always true, though. It's not. Because sometimes it's not proof that the system is broken. It's pressure that becomes evident that the system is being tested. Sometimes pressure is evidence that the work is reaching the right places it needs to reach. And sometimes that pressure is evidence that people are adjusting to a higher standard. And sometimes pressure is where you finally see what the system is made of. So today's episode is called Pressure Doesn't Mean the System Is Broken. So, Apollo, let us start here.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Oh, I love where this is going. You know, pressure is kind of like an unexpected pop quiz. It's not here to ruin your day, it's just checking if you've been paying attention to the lessons. So let's dig into that. Where have you felt that pressure recently that's actually showing you just how strong your system really is?

SPEAKER_00 3:28

Well, let me before I answer that question, let me just say this checking in to see if you've been paying attention to the lessons. And that's where I think it's a good place to start because there's a lot of things that happen around us by us in the same space, in the same organization, when we're listening or not, all of the time. The question is, are you paying attention to what's happening? That way you can learn from what's going on, and then you can actually show how we use that to become stronger. And so that's what I think the first piece is, Apollo. And let me just answer your question. Uh, where have you felt that pressure recently showing up? Just how strong the system really is. And I think at the end of the school year, because I mean, I don't know, for the last 10, 15 years, there's always some change, there's always some shuffling around with people. People are moving into different spaces, which can create some panic. But this year, right now, we don't have that much movement. And I and I feel like that pressure is kind of there because those things happen at sites, people do move on. But I still I feel strength in the unknown at this point. Like there's still some questions, what's going to happen? Are we going here? But there's strength and understanding that their consistency and sustainability, what we're trying to do collectively as a team. And that is actually a really great fit.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

That's solid. When the unknown doesn't knock you off balance, but instead shows you the muscle memory you've built. So, in the spirit of strength, let's keep that momentum going because it's not about dodging pressure, it's about showing the system can flex, adapt, and come out looking sharp. Let's unpack that next.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

And so let me say it this way. I like that, Apollo, because you're talking about how the system can flex, how we adapt and how we come out looking better. And so I'll just start Sam uh talking just about that kind of component, about that flexibility piece. You know, a long time ago, there was a lot of rigid people in the space, like things would happen. It's like, no, you can't do that. No, no, it was no everywhere, like firm and and and stiffness. Those days are long gone because you cannot behave in that manner because you have to have a level of flexibility andor fluidity in order to make things work. So, with that being said, I'm really excited about this episode because it's about looking at what's going on, all of the things that we're doing, but yet there's a lot of positivity.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Absolutely. And hey, if we can flex and adapt in life, maybe we can finally figure out how to fold that fitted sheet too. Let's embrace that positivity and keep it flowing.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

See, Apollo's already starting out with some jokes here. Fold the fitted sheet too. I don't fold them because I put them right back on the bed. Anyway, so Apollo, here's the question I have for you. Why do leaders sometimes interpret that pressure as failure, even when the system may be actually working?

SPEAKER_01 6:14

It's probably because we've all got that inner alarm that mistakes discomfort for disaster. But hey, a little pressure is just proof we're doing something bold, like trying to lead a district or, you know, fold that fiddleshi.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

So is is pressure a good thing for us? I've always been told if you feel like you're nervous a little bit before you do something big, that's a good thing. Is pressure good in that sense as well?

SPEAKER_01 6:37

It sure can be. Think of it as your internal quality control. A little pressure is like life's way of saying, hey, this moment matters. Just remember, diamonds are made under pressure, and so are fantastic leaders.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

Diamonds are made under pressure. And that connects where I am personally right now because in real time, there definitely is pressure. There's transition, people moving on, there's changes happening, there's always changes happening, and decisions have to be made. There are emotions always connected to the work. And if you kind of throw that out the window, that's not good because you got to keep everything together while people are going through change and everyone handles change differently. And when you're inside of that, it can feel like a lot. You know, you start feeling like, ah, I got more things to worry about, more things to carry. You start thinking about how people are experiencing the change. And that's a good thing to think about others. You start thinking about what the board needs, what the staff needs, family, students, community. It goes on and on and on. And if you're not careful, all of that pressure can make you question what you are doing. Is this work meaningful? Is it valuable? But when I step back, I can see something else. The system is still moving, the mission is clear and people are stepping up, and expectations seem to be getting clearer. So that means that the work isn't stopping. The organization is definitely not falling apart. If anything, it's getting stronger. And in some ways, the system is showing strength. And that matters because sometimes pressure makes us look only at what feels bad or what's hard or what the challenges are, but leadership also has to look at what's holding, what's getting stronger, what is becoming clearer, and what's continuing to move, even though things are changing. And I think that is the evidence. And I think that's where leaders have to be disciplined enough to say, yes, yeah, yeah, there is pressure, there's pressure every day, the majority of the days, and it's real and it's uncomfortable, but pressure does not automatically mean that the system is broken.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

You nailed it. Pressure is just the plot to it's not the ending. And when leaders stack back, they see the real story. Things are still standing strong. So here's to the pressure because it's part of what keeps the system evolving and us on our toes.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

And being on your toes is important. That means you're sharp, you're aware, you're cognizant, you're scanning, you're trying to figure out what's going on because you want to do better. You want everyone else to do better. And you want your end goal, whatever that is, to be the thing that everyone is working for, and you want to be able to show those results.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

Exactly. Because at the end of the day, we're not just chasing goals, we're building systems that help us get there, even when the pressure's on. And let's be honest, if we weren't aiming high, it wouldn't feel this fun, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:32

So let me just share this little quick story with you, Apollo. So recently, what's been happening, I've been looking at what the outcome is first. So whenever there's a discussion, I'm determining, asking questions to find out what is the real outcome that we want. And then from there, we backwards map it to figure out how we get there. I mean, it sounds so simple, but that's not how I think I've always thought. That's not how we've always operated. I'll say that, but it makes it quicker to get to the outcome and more understanding of the steps to get there because we're all on the same page on what the outcome is. And it feels stronger. It feels really good.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

That's some smooth strategic jazz right there. Starting with the outcome is like knowing the song you're playing before you hit the first note. And when everyone's on the same rhythm, you get to that strong finish with a whole lot more harmony.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

So if we take that analogy, Apollo, with the music right there, and we first agree on what is the music? What's the genre? What do we want to hear? What does it look like? And everyone has an understanding of what that piece is going to look like, then everyone puts their best forward foot forward to get to that point. And it can happen, and I'm seeing it, and it's just a great feeling. So here's a question I have for you, Paolo. How can leaders tell the difference between the pressure that reveals a broken system and the pressure that simply means the system is being tested? Because they're they're two separate things.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Oh, that's the key. When it's broken, you'll see repeated confusion, no clarity, and frankly, no tune. But when it's tested, you'll see people stepping up, adapting, and actually growing. One feels like chaos, the other feels like progress. So listen for the harmony. When people are learning and the mission's still clear, you know it's just a test and you're passing.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Can you give us some real live examples of that, Apollo? I mean, maybe a scenario or something that applies to most people when it's not just when it's when it's broken and when it doesn't, it it there is some progress, although there's some things that are happening. Like unlikeness, Apollo, maybe throw some research in there too.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

All right. Imagine a school drop-off line. If it's broken, cars are cutting in, kids are late, chaos rains. But if it's just pressure, maybe the line's longer, but you see staff adjusting, parents cooperating, and kids getting in on time. Research says high-performing teams actually lean into pressure, adjusting processes instead of panicking. So if people are still working together, just pressure. If it's every person for themselves, well, time to fix that system.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

I like it. That is a great example, Apollo. I didn't know where you were gonna go, but it's clean because that's something that it's a system that can be developed, it can be tweaked, you can see it. There's end results, people feel good about it. There's a lot of things going on in that, but that's just one example. And so again, the thing that I've I've observed and I've seen lately is whenever a challenge comes up, people step up. They, this word lean in, they they arise to the occasion and they put their best foot forward to help out the team. And that is a signal to me that whenever pressure arises, people are ready to take it on because they know there's going to be a positive outcome and we're gonna work together as a team to accomplish the goal. And that's one of the best feelings that I'm getting in this space.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

That is a gray feeling. When you see people step into pressure, not with dread, but with intention, that's a system insane. Keep leaning in because when the team is aligned on that outcome, the wins just keep stacking up.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

So I think that's the shift. That's the shift because we can't because if we're not careful, we can start treating every form of pressure like a problem to eliminate. And they're not all problems because it's not always something to remove. Uh, sometimes pressure is something to understand, it's something to lead through, it's something to learn from. That's a big component. Sometimes that pressure is teaching us something how we navigate through that. And here's where it gets real in leadership, especially in education. Uh, I don't know about especially in education. And when you're leading, most of the time you care about the person, unless you're in some cutthroat type business and you just think about the outcome. But the outcome only happens when people are involved. So we should care about people because people do matter and relationships matter. And trust matters and communication, all of those things help us move things forward. But caring about people does not mean removing every ounce of discomfort from the system. I know some of you guys have seen it when you're just you're you're you're trying to help, and then people get caught up in the story and whatever, and we lose sight of what we're doing, because sometimes discomfort comes from growth, growth. Sometimes discomfort comes from clarity, and some discomfort comes from accountability. So with that being said, uh some discomfort comes from the fact that the work is no longer vague, it's clear. When the work is no longer vague, people have to decide how they're going to respond. Oh, am I aligned? Am I committed? Or am I just or am I willing to adjust or not? Uh, do I want to be a part of it or not? And we're willing to keep moving the wish mission forward. Are you willing to keep moving the mission forward? Because it's not a broken system, it's a tested system. And tested does not mean broken. It means we get to see what we're built of and what we are building.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

And that's the real fire, right? When that clarity sparks, you see who's ready to grow and who's ready to step up. So let's lead with that courage because tested systems shape tested leaders, and that's where the real results come from.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

And you know, there are some people out here who they they test people on purpose. I'm gonna do this and see how someone acts. I don't have a comment on that. I think I've done that sometimes. I think we all kind of do that, but that's just pressure being applied in a light way to see what the response is gonna be. Think of it like that. But always think of it as here's the task, how do I lean into it? How do I make things happen? When you do that, the pressure means nothing. It just means that you're going through something to try to get to a better end result. Comment on that, Apollo.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

I'm with you. Intentional tests can reveal readiness, but it's all about the intent. If it's to lift everyone toward a better result, that's leadership. If it's just messing with folks, well, not so much. So keep that focus on growth and we'll always get stronger.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Yeah, no one should be in the system just trying to mess with people because people not, I mean, they're in this when you're leading, you you kind of get a sense of what's going on. Um, so we try to do things to help people. And sometimes you could say that. Well, I was doing that to see how you were gonna handle this because I I see you doing XYZ and it's good. So, Apollo, what happens when leaders panic under pressure and start changing direction too quickly? I don't see it too often anymore, but in some spaces, when someone says something, oh, I don't want to do that, I don't see that now. I see you say something's like, okay, how do we work that through? How do we here's a perspective that I have. So, Apollo, what happens when leaders panic and start to change that direction too quickly?

SPEAKER_01 16:50

When leaders panic and pivot too fast, it's like flipping the GPS every five minutes. Nobody knows where they're going. It can confuse the team, erode trusts, and honestly, people get whiblash. The key is to breathe, assess, and adjust with purpose because a steady hand keeps the whole system moving forward.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

You know, when you said that I thought about sometimes in spaces, I hear uh, I don't know what they're doing. You know how they are. Who is they? I don't know. People who are running the organization, people who are running the district, people who run the school site, people who run the company, they, they're they. And it's they because no one understands what's going on because there's a lack of clarity, there's a lack of understanding. That's a different type of pressure versus the pressure of saying, hey, this is what we all want to do, this is how we all want to get there. That creates pressure, but you get there faster because we're all aligned, versus this pressure is coming from chaos. Would you say? I mean, to me, that sounds like a clear difference.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Oh, absolutely. The difference is night and day. When pressure comes from sheer clarity, it's like a team rowing in sync. When it's chaos, it's like rowing with everyone facing different directions. So, yeah, let's keep everyone knowing who they are because when they is us, we move forward.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Us, us, us. So, Apollo, what does it look like to lead when the system is under pressure? What does a leader look like who's taken in that pressure and distributed, taking it in for a better end result? Give us some examples of what that looks like.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

That leader looks calm and steady, even when things heat up. They don't hide the pressure, they name it. They communicate, set direction, and create space for the team to respond. They lean on the mission, reminding everyone why we're here. In other words, they become the anchor so that even under pressure, the ship stays on course.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

Do you have Apollo a real life example of this? Someone who everyone knows when this leader was taking on pressure, how they just kind of leaned into it, calm, and kept moving forward.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

Oh, one classic example. Think of Captain Sully landing that plane on the Hudson. Pressure through the roof, but he calmly communicated, focused on the goal, and inspired everyone to do their part. That's a leader who took the ultimate pressure and kept the system moving. Literally, right onto the water.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

I think that's a great example. So, what is the name of that movie, uh Apollo?

SPEAKER_01 19:16

They kept it simple. It's called Sully. You can't miss it. Just like a leader who lands the mission.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Okay, what year did it come out? I think Denzel Washington was in that movie. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Not quite. Denzel was in flight, a different plane drama. Sully star Tom Hanks and came out in 2016. Both had pressure, only one had a river landing.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Okay. Okay, okay. That's why I love you, Apollo, because uh, I first of all I asked you the question not knowing where it was gonna go, and that's okay. But then I got things confused, which is normal. Okay, so Sully, I don't think I've seen that one. Maybe I have. Was this the one? This is not the one where he was stranded on the island, was it?

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Nope, you're thinking of Castaway. Also, Tom Hanks, but that one had volleyballs, not airplanes. Sully's the one where he lands the plane on the Hudson River. No coconuts involved.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

Okay. Let me, I'm, I'm off track. All right, Paul, let me go back to the question. So uh you the question was what does it look like to lead well when the systems are under pressure? And you are you answered that, and you gave an answer. So um it and so can you just refresh that just for one second?

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Absolutely. Leading under pressure means staying calm, communicating clearly, reinforcing the mission, and guiding the team forward. It's being the anchor, absorbing that pressure so others can keep rowing in sync toward the outcome.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

Okay, so no matter what is happening is how you stay calm and keep moving forward. You're going to absorb some pressure, you're going to get some pressure out. It's going to be passed on, depending on what it is. But the bottom line is that you're managing it. You're, you're, you're facilitating how this kind of lays out. And that connects with me. It really does because I know uh what it feels like to want to make sense of pressure immediately. Something happens, you just want to knock it out. You know, what it feels like to carry the things that people may not fully see, what it feels like to absorb that tension because there's always some tension somewhere. And I also know that sometimes, if I'm not careful, I can start judging the system by how heavy the moments feel. So when these situations come up, boom, boom, boom, I'm like, what's going on? And I start to get a little elevated. I I feel myself doing that at times, but that's not always accurate. So I have to slow down. A heavy moment doesn't mean that the work is failing. A tough season, we're in a tough season, does not mean that it's broken. And transition doesn't mean that we're getting lost. Questions do not mean clarity is absent. So given all of that, I have to be able to step back and ask a few questions. What is the evidence? What are people stepping? Up to or into? Where is the system holding? Are the expectations clear? Is there better communication needed? Where is the organization stronger than it used to be? Was it? But because it's not only that you're looking at the pressure. If you're only looking at that, you're going to miss the progress. And we don't want to miss the progress. We want to recognize it, name it. We want to honor the people doing the work. That's really huge. And I have not always been really good at that. But when you honor that, when you see what people are doing and you just say something to them or leave them a note, it changes everything for them. And we want to keep leading with courage. Not because it's easy, but because the mission deserves steady leadership.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

You said it perfectly. It's not about dodging the pressure, but seeing the progress within it. Would we honor the work and lead with that steady courage? We give people the clarity to keep moving forward. So keep asking those questions, recognizing that growth, and that's where the mission gets stronger step by step.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

And you know, I just want to pause for one second and think about some of those leaders that I've worked with or been around. They always seem calm, they always seem collective. And what I know now is that just because they look like that doesn't mean that's what's happening underneath the surface, you know, like the duck. Actually, I I was um with a a group of colleagues, and uh, we were actually golfing, and someone said, you know, I feel like a duck sometimes. I look like this, but underneath the water, I'm like moving my legs. I'm doing all this stuff, but people can't see that. And that's what's important. And so I want to give mad props to those people out there who handle your business, you take it all in, you understand that there's weight involved, you understand that there's pressure involved, but you keep moving forward and you're calm. Because when you're calm, everyone looks at you like, wow, they got it. But that doesn't mean you do have it. So, how do you how do you step back? Let's go back to earlier episodes. Like episode 23 was a really good one. Really good one because it was basically like, hey, this is what's going on, but are we doing too much for the right reason? So sometimes you could take some of that stuff off your plate. So, Apollo, with all that being said, do you have any final thoughts for our leaders who are feeling pressure and wondering whether the system is broken or not, given everything that we've discussed?

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Absolutely. My final thought is this when you feel pressure, pause. Look for the evidence. Is the team stepping up? Are you learning? If so, it's not broken. It's just evolving. Stay steady, communicate, and trust that growth comes to the test. And remember, your calm leadership is the compass. Keep that courage.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

Any resources out there, anything for people to watch, read, see, experience based upon, you know, meaning that pressure doesn't mean that the system is broken. There may be something underlying in that. Like this is kind of like uh uh seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, maybe not, but just seeing something different in the midst of like challenge, we don't always do that. Any resources for our audience, Apollo?

SPEAKER_01 25:06

One that stands out is Simon Sinek's leader's eat las. He dives into how trust and calm leadership shape resilient systems. And for a quick watch, Brene Brown's TED Talk on vulnerability is a gem. It shows that leaning into discomfort often reveals the strength of the system. Worth it be.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

Okay, Apollo. Okay. Any last words, Apollo? I do want to have a brief conversation with you because I think we're gonna we're gonna break our uh fire talk podcast into seasons. And so we're gonna be ending our season coming up because that will give me, that will give everybody else a chance to kind of rejuvenate for the summer, as uh the the industry that we work in, education. For the most part, uh students don't attend in the summer. And they had their summer school, there's certain things, but it's not at the large scale. So it gives some of us a little bit of a reprieve and break, not a lot, because we're still planning for next year, still a lot going on, still run an organization, but it kind of winds us down. And when you're wind down, when you wind down, and this is what our last episode of the season is gonna be coming up in the near future, is that you want to rest and you want to recover. So we're gonna talk about that later on. But I just want to just share that out there. Any thoughts, Apollo, about our show thus far and how we're gonna wind this show or this uh season down.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

I love the idea of seasons, just like a school year. It gives a natural rhythm. We've sparked plenty of thought this season, and a rest and recovery focus is perfect to close it out. Plus, a summer recharge means we'll come back with even more fire next time. I'm here for all of it.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

So, last words to uh to our audience for our episode, Apollo.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

To everyone out there, pressure isn't a stop sign. It's just a reminder that the mission matters. Keep leading with clarity, keep growing through the test, and remember your steady leadership is the real courageous fire. See you next time.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

So here's the takeaway pressure doesn't mean that the system is broken. Uh, it may mean that the system is being tested, or expectations are clear, or the mission is pushing against old habits. I can relate to that. Or it may mean that people are adjusting, or it may mean that the work is starting to reach deeper. So don't misread it. Don't panic just because the season feels heavier. Uh, and don't call the whole system broken because there's some tension going on. Look for the evidence. Is the mission still moving? Are people stepping up? Are expectations getting clear? Is the standard holding? Is the organization stronger than it used to be? I can say yes to all of those things, maybe not all, but the majority, because sometimes the work is working right in the middle of pressure. Sometimes the system is growing right in the middle of tension. And sometimes what feels like breaking is actually stretching. And sometimes the pressure is not there to stop the work, it is there to show you what the work is producing. So lead steady, read evidence, support the people, protect the mission, and keep building something that can hold beyond the moment. And that is fire talk. So if the fire is lit, share the grit.