Episode 12

Playing in the right classification

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Softball sound off with Chris and Mike.

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Good evening, everybody. Welcome to Softball Sound Off. I'm your host, Chris. I'm here with Mike. How are you doing, Mike? I'm doing good. Thanks. Hey, uh, so um, this episode we're gonna get into a little bit of dissection of levels of play. Um now that this the travel ball has picked up a little bit, games have started. Um we we we look around the landscape, we see things on game changer social media, and we kind of just want to dissect a little bit. And uh the disclaimer here is these are our opinions, it's just how we feel. It's not how everybody feels, but this is everything I say is facts. So um so you know, it's just how we feel and how we see it, and uh it's our show, so we get to give our opinions, so that's how it's gonna roll. Um, so I saw some you know, teams up here in the Northeast playing this weekend, and it it it quite I started to question of you know what what and why the divisions that they're playing in. So you run a program and uh if a if a coach would come to you and be like, hey, you know, we want to be a C team, and you know me, I've said it here before, I don't even like the C division. Um but if a if a if a coach came up to you and said, Hey, Mike, we want to be a C team, uh what would your response be?

SPEAKER_00 1:36

So I have had coaches do that, and we do. Um to me, and we got into this earlier, one of the earlier podcasts, C is developmental. C is you know, maybe a first-year young team, uh, maybe a new team put together, kind of finding out where they are, um, maybe players that haven't played travel before. That that would be a C team in my mind. Um, if you're a team that's been together for a couple of years, um, you're entering your second year together for the most part at that age level, I I would tell the coach no. Like you've you've gotta you've gotta push yourself. You gotta you should be playing B. So to me, if you're if you're C level is developmental, that should be again in my program. If a team comes to me and asks for C, and I think we just have one, um, and that team is C strictly because they are our younger team, it's their first year together, a lot of first-year travel ball players. And I also make it very clear that we're gonna start out this way to let the let the players develop. Um, because what you don't want to do, especially if it's a lot of younger players that haven't played the sport before um or play travel, um, but they're they've got really good potential. See, that's the thing. Like if you're playing C for us, you're you're we we took you because we see potential and you're coachable. It's not like, oh, just fill the roster. It's we saw something because we turned people down too. It's they they there's potential there, they have a desire to play the game, the sport, but um they need some work. They would be on a C team. But I make it clear to the coaches um right out of the gate that listen, it's it's your job to and the programs to develop them. So over throughout the the winters, throughout the early spring, that you're training them. And the goal is to at the end of the season be playing B-level tournaments. That's the goal. It's you want to work towards improvement. Um, because what we don't want to do is is if if they truly are a true C team, enter them into tournaments where they're getting hammered and they're just they're losing motivation, they're losing enthusiasm. Um, that doesn't help anybody. Um hurting their confidence. Because if they already know they're they're there to learn and develop, and they're just getting hammered, it's not it's not good. Which then leads into another part we'll get into this a little bit more. Is we see some of these teams playing in C tournaments that have no business being there. And to me, that's that should be cracked down on because when you've got teams that are truly there to develop and learn and and and become a B team, and you have teams that are playing B that are truly B teams, playing in C just to post trophies and attract people to, you know, like, oh look, we're this dominant team. No, you're not, you're you're playing in the wrong class. That's hurting what that division's meant to be, um, which is a developmental.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Yeah, it's you and and the thing is, does that team let's say they're a a C team and a second year you know team and they're a C team, are you just gonna keep going up through the age groups just being a C team? I mean, how does that make you better? Like you want to be challenged, and who cares about these plastic rings that you get for winning winning tournaments and and things like that? The goal here, the end goal is if you're playing travel, you should have a desire to want to play at the next level. I agree. And if you're just mired in a C division, how are you improving? How like it's you're creating a culture on your team that only cares about winning and getting these rings and posting on social media instead of putting them, especially a second-year team, if you've been together for a few years, playing in a higher level and seeing what you truly have and and truly expose your weaknesses so you can work on them. Um, I mean, I don't see I just I just can't believe that there are players as you get older, like four uh 14, 16, 18U, especially 18U and 16U, how is there a C division in those? I mean, yes, you develop all the time, you're always developing, but if we're classifying C as a developmental division, how are you in a developmental 18UC and plan on playing in college?

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Well, I I told you my my opinion on that. If you're playing 16, 18UC, it's not about development, it's about just kind of enjoying the sport, wanting to play the sport. Um, and that's it, that's an outlet to do, which I don't like I said, as long as those expectations are are set, everybody knows what that's what that team's about, then I I I mean that's I don't have a problem with that. Um I think that that's that that's my again my opinion is if 16-18U, I wouldn't call it developmental. See, I'd call it like, hey, we want to play the sport where we're not a high level, but we do like the sport, we still want to play it, we enjoy it, we enjoy the camaraderie, um, and that's what that is for. Um just call it that.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

Because you know I'd call it a social league.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Yeah, and and like I said, that's I mean, it it is what it is, and that's fine. I mean, it's as long as every like I said, as long as the expectation's clear, I mean, that's you know, then that's fine. It's I I get frustrated at the younger levels. Um because honestly, Chris, I don't and at those older levels with the C, I I don't see a ton of it, to be honest, as it is that OT older 18C. I see it more and more like kind of popping up on social media, like 18, like we saw the other day, like 18 UC team looking for a pitcher, and um but I don't see it that often. Um, you know, none of my teams are involved in that, so I guess I don't, I'm just it's not on my radar. Um, so I don't think it's very widespread. Maybe it is, but uh, it's not something I I pay attention to. Um, and I don't think a lot of 16U, 18U really better teams are hiding in that C level. You know what I'm saying? Like, I feel like at that level, like those good teams want exposure, so they're playing in high level. Um, so you don't have that at the younger levels, you have that that BS going on where you've got teams hiding in that to make themselves look better. At the older level, I there's no need for them to hide at those C levels because that's I mean, you should be looking at colleges if you're playing those levels. Colleges aren't looking at that. So I I I think that that's a different I think the 16, 18 UC is a different vibe, and I don't I don't think better teams are playing down. Where I see the playing down and causing issues is the younger, the 12 and the 12 and the 14.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Um Yeah, I think you're creating a false sense of security on what you're there for. Like you're you're playing if you're a a a good, let's say, 12U team and you're playing in C and just smoking everybody every weekend and and collecting these rings, I think you're creating a false sense of security that you're better than what you really are because you're not competing against equal competition.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

Um I I I agree and don't agree. I think that P I think they're well aware, otherwise they put themselves in better competition. Because some of these teams that you see posting, if you're winning your these tournaments by blowing everybody out in your C level and you've been around for a couple of years, I reevaluate what you're doing. Like you, I mean, it just re-evaluates what you do. Because like I said, to me, it's it's it's twofold. Like, A, the teams that are true C teams that are trying to develop, I mean, like it's it's not fair to them. And B, like at some point, like your players, your parents are gonna want to be challenged, you would hope, but maybe not. If they're not, then maybe they are really that they belong in that C level. Like we played, you know. I mean, I I use my daughter's team as an example. We played this weekend. Um, you know, we played good competition. All the teams they played were had winning records going in, B level. Um, you know, we won two out of three games. The last game was a good game. They were they were smoked, they were tired. Um, I think could have gone either way, but you know, they didn't win the game and they were they were frustrated. I, you know, they left the field after the day going two for three in a close good game at the last game of the day. Um, you know, and I I I was I said to them, you know, and I said to the coach, I said, look, I I get it. You want to win every game, but they're not gonna win every game. But I love the competitiveness. I love that these girls want to go out and scrap and battle every weekend and and win every game and but but play good competition. Like they love that last game. They literally wanted to, they're literally reaching out to that coach for that loss, asking to scrimmage him again in uh in a month. Like that to me is I love that. Like I didn't tell them to do that, but that's the kind of team I want my daughter on. That's the kind of that's what I want is when they took they lost that last game, they said we want to face them again and got their number. That's that's what I look for in a coach. That's why you know my daughter plays where she is, not oh, I hope we never see them again, we lost.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

All right, so you do you so these teams that play C, and then they post looking for players, and in their description, they say they're a high-level uh program with that with elite uh training, elite this, elite that. Can you really consider yourself elite training and elite if you're in the C division?

SPEAKER_00 10:55

No, and again, my my opinion is no, but this that's what falls on the parents that are looking to ask. Ask those questions. Ask when you go to a trial, what level do you play at? I mean, you could go to the U Trip, you can go to the U Trip, uh, what do you call it? The U Trip app and you could look search for a team, and it tells you what classification they are. So there's no mystery there. Like that, that's what you know, everything is readily accessible these days. Game changer stats, U Trip standings. So, and this is what I we've said, just be what you are and own it. It's okay, you know.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

But but I think this is this is where the the influence of the business end of it comes into play. Where you know you're you're starting a program or running a program, and you're trying to lure other players in so you make it more grandiose than what it is. It's the greatest showman effect, where the smoke and mirror effect, where you want to create this hype so you get more players, but then you get the players in there, and or do they experience a letdown because it's not the team that you advertised it to be?

SPEAKER_00 12:09

I agree. Well, again, that's that's parents doing their due diligence, do your homework. Um, like it's not difficult these days. Ask the coach flat out what level do you play at? Every time we get an inquiry or something like that, that's one of the first things people ask me is what division do they play in? Um, you know, I I kind of chuckle when I get that. I've had excuse me, have I had that question for tenue? Like, well, are you is this an A team? I'm like, no. Um, but um for I do get that question, and like I said, it's we do have one, I think it's just one team in the program that's that's classified as C. And I it's not that they're it's just a it's a brand new team with half of them have never played, probably 70% have never played a day of travel, but they've got great potential. And that's what like so they're playing their scrimmaging today, and I'm gonna go by the fields and watch them play. But I asked them, I said, Who are you guys playing today? Because I hope it's a comparable team that you guys could learn, work through, like play a live game, and walk away what lessons and and what do you need to work on from this game? Like, that's the purpose of C level is that if you're a C team, you're playing C, you want to be able to walk away every weekend with things to work on to get better. That with a goal at the end of the year or at the end of the season, you're playing in B tournaments, you've worked towards getting there. If you're like just we're C, we're gonna ride it out, we're gonna collect as many trophies for our shelf as we can, uh you know, go for it.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

It's just not something I would ever think is if I think these coaches need to be more realistic. And though, like if I coached a 12-year team and I'm like, Mike, I'm gonna start C, we got a bunch of new players, you know, we're brand new team, we're first-year team, I want to start in C and see how we go. If we're playing C in the first you know, two, three tournaments, we're just cleaning house with everybody. I I can't realistically stay in that division because I'm not the type of person that's just gonna want to just collect all these plastic rings. I'm gonna be like, all right, the next couple tournaments, I want to play some B. I want to see where we're at and see how we stack up. And then if we're competitive in there and winning some games, I'm gonna ask to reclassify as B. Yep. Because again, I hate the C division. Uh, I understand why it's there. I'm just too competitive to want to be in that scenario. Uh, so I think the coaches need to do a better job at continually evaluating. And you don't just because you start the season in C doesn't mean you gotta stay there. Well, that's it. Even if you have to stay there as your classification, you can enter B tournaments. Correct. So challenge your players, and that's what's gonna help them develop.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

And I I agree. And like I said, that's that's the one stipulation I put on my team that when they they they you know, we spoke about what classification. Um, we all agree that that's probably the best one to start them at to work towards, but I I literally tell them probably every single week, like, this is what the goal is, like this is what we're gonna work towards. Like at the end of the season, I want to see you in a couple of B tournaments. Because again, if they're if they're not, if they're just still hovering around that level, then are we doing our job developing them?

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

You know, I mean, if a team is forever C, if you're a C team last year, you're a C team again this year with the same players, I well then I think you need to then you need to take a look at what's going on because that's not that should not be the case. Like your goal should be to work towards having them play higher level competition. If your goal is to just post on Facebook how many tournaments you can win, I I don't know. Like, I mean, is that really because you know what? That check comes due at some point in time, and at some point in time, those 12 you young ladies are gonna be playing in high school, and you know, when they show up there with their fingers covered in all these tournament rings and say, look what you're getting, uh a superstar, and they got to go out in the field and it's something's lacking, uh, you know, it's all gonna come out. And it's to me, it's not only the the skill level, it's the um the mental part of it too. Because if you're if you if you're a player that's really not a a C player and a team that's not level, and you're just kind of steamrolling, you're gonna get a confidence that's a little bit of a fake confidence. And when these these young ladies do get challenged, because at some point they're gonna have to come out of that shell, come out of that rock you're hiding them under, and play at a different, you know, somewhere else. Um are they gonna be able to handle that? Are they gonna be able to handle you know, if they're a pitcher getting on the mound and getting hammered? Are they gonna be able to handle if you're you know at bat and you're used to girls throwing, you know, basically lob balls and you're hammering it, all of a sudden you're getting locations and spin. Are you and you're you're struggling? Are you gonna be able to handle that?

SPEAKER_01 17:05

Well, that's why as a as a high school coach, you know, I I get you know a lot of these youth players that play all over different travel teams, and excuse me, you see these quote unquote accomplishments and and things they're doing, and I don't I take it all with a grain of salt because when you get to me and you're now a freshman on the varsity team, you're playing 18-year-olds, you know, you're playing girls from all different travel teams that do play BA, you know, showcase the teams, like legit players. So what you know, the things you've been doing the past few years, playing, you know, C or or or whatever, B, and you have all these accomplishments, you gotta show me. Um, because I see even on my team this year, you know, I've I've some players that have you know accomplishments in their travel, you know, life, um, but it's not translating to high school. Uh, because you know, there's a lot out there about I see it all the time on social media about people bashing high school programs, uh, that's all politics and daddy ball and stuff. That's just not how it is on my team and in our league. Our league is very competitive. Uh, it's one of the strongest, our section alone is one of the strongest in the area. Um, so there's no place to hide when you come to play uh in our league. Uh so these players get exposed uh and they're just not used to experiencing the the failures and and not talking about wins and losses, I'm talking about skill and ability. Yeah um where they're they're not making the plays they should be because the competition has ratcheted up and they're not used to it. And that's the point of challenging the younger players, playing them in B and A or whatever, is to get them exposed to the challenges so they find their weaknesses so they can develop them.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Yeah, and and I and like I said, that to me a big part of that is gonna be the mental component because if they're mentally just being trained to like steamroll, steamroll, steamroll, you know, like I said, eventually that that check is due. And if if they haven't been playing the proper level and and where they should, you know, forget about their skill. They're mentally, they're just gonna shut down. What are they gonna look like out there? Are they just gonna walk off the field? Are they gonna be a good teammate? Um, you know, it's those are those are things that you know it's it to me, it's a bigger, it's a bigger issue. Um, again, uh it's I know that people are doing it, you know. We we know why it looks great. All these, you know, you get the post on Facebook and then you do recruiting, come join us. You know, you can put pictures up with the team with 50 trophies and rings and all that jazz. And but you know, that that's where I I tell the families, like just just spend five seconds, just ask the questions. What what what division are those are those wins in? What what division do you guys play? What's your goal for this team?

SPEAKER_01 19:56

Um Yeah, but also you gotta put I think you gotta put some of this bonus on the parents as well. Like you're a parent, collect your parents collectively on a team that's playing C, and you see your team is just dominating every game. Aren't you gonna ask, you know, what is the point of it? Like, ask yourself, what's the point? Do I just am I just am I good with just demolishing teams? Is this really showing my my player what abilities they have or don't have? I mean, and then and approach the program, approach coach, be like, hey, can we start getting in some better tournaments, see some better competition? So I think that's to me it's it wouldn't be fun, it's not fun just to steamroll everybody. Like my daughter sat here the other episode and said, that's just not fun.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

No, I agree. Look, we I've seen I've seen it with with my daughter. I mean, they I've seen it with the whole team. It's not just my daughter. I've seen they've entered tournaments where they've steamrolled, uh, probably, you know, and and like they won and like they were like, yay. Like they just it like they flat out said like they love being challenged. They played better when they're challenged. Like I could see it in all of them. They they focus more. Um, but you know, that that's actually a good we'll we'll post on uh when we post the kind of the trailer for this. I think that that would that's a great question to the audience to write in um at softballsoundoff at gmail.com. If you're a parent on a C team, um, and you could be anonymous, I'm not gonna say who you are. Let us know like what your take is. Like, are you are you happy with that? Are you like, no, we wish it would be challenged more. Let us let us know, because this is our opinion, but let us know your take. If you're like, no, it's great, because I've heard, I've I've I've had people say like it's great, it's camaraderie, it's a great weekend. Like, and and I I I I I get that, but there's other ways to have camarader and have great weekends. If you're playing travel, the goal should be development. I it should be the development. It should. It should be you want to see your player get better year after year.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Um is your sole purpose there to be to have camaraderie? The number one goal of travel should be to develop to get to play to the next level, to play college. So if but that's but that's it's camaraderie to me is second.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Chris, but I I I don't disagree, but uh it's become you see what's in you see what has entered the travel world, you see what level. So there's a lot of that mentality that is rearing its head. That's not just again when when we first entered it, I don't know, five years ago, it was still very competitive. It's become since very watered down, where it's you you have a big influx of um, you know, people that are just have lower standards. Correct.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

I'll say it. It's just that's how I see it. Sorry, you have lower standards these days.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Yeah, lower standards and lower expectations.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

So I'm I'm gonna I'm calling out all you coaches and all your parents out there, raise your standards. You know, be better with what you expect from a player you supposedly believe is a good or great softball player, and that you think they're gonna play in college, well then have higher expectations because when they get to college, if they get to college, the high the expectations are gonna be great. So quit hiding and coaches. Um I can say this on here because it's our podcast, and uh if you don't want to listen, don't grab your sack and go play competition. Stop hiding.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

If not, look, I I like I said it's I agree, and uh, and you're not doing anybody any favors. You're not you're not doing your players favors. The truth 12U or 14 UC teams that are there to develop, it really should a 14 same thing, but shouldn't be. But if you're there to develop, let them develop. Um, and stop going in there and just kind of bullying them and you know acting like you've accomplished something because you haven't.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

And and I'm gonna call out eight like this whole 18 UC thing. I've only just recently seen it. Um you know, if if if you have dreams of playing in college, do not be on an ATUC team. I don't care what you say. You get I'll get people out there to say, well, you can be you can be recruited from any team. Realistically, you've lowered your percentage of making a college team so much less. When they you put you tell this coach you play for a TUC team, um their ears aren't really gonna perk up. You better wow them individually at their camps and and uh your your emails to them because they're not coming to watch your team. It's just not gonna happen. Uh if I was a college coach and I would had my choice to go to two tournaments, one to see player A and one to see player B, and player B is playing on ATUC team, my first choice is gonna be go play, go watch the 18A open, you know, B, whatever. Um so do yourselves a favor, challenge yourselves, and uh the camaraderie will come along with it.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

I agree.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Alright, guys, uh that's it for this episode. Uh shout out to Carusos in uh Silver Springs and here in Lancaster. Um great food. See Alex who hook you up with some amazing Italian food. Uh you can follow us on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, and uh Spotify. Again, email us at softballsoundoff at gmail.com and uh give us some topics. We'll we'll talk about them, give us some scenarios you came up or are exposed to, and uh we'll dissect them. So uh see you next time. Have a good one, guys.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Take care.