Behind the Mask Part 2

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Softball sound off with Chris and Mike. Hey everybody, it's Mike here with Chris. Chris.

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Hey, how's it going tonight?

SPEAKER_00 0:11

And our uh special guest, uh Midge, who's uh president of the Umpire Association in the area. So she has the pleasure of umping once in a while, still getting into it, and uh, but also she has the pleasure of uh getting the texts and calls from from the umpires every weekend. Um so thanks for joining us again, Midge. You're welcome. Okay. I'm good. Good, good, good. So we were just sitting here um kind of shooting the breeze a little bit, um, and it was just an interesting conversation about what Midgee's, you know, you've been doing this for how many years again? 18. 18 years. So, and I know I've seen you at all age levels, from 10U to I know you do college, um, and it would be cool if you're um one of my daughter's games one day. Um, but uh, you know, you you see everything from a different angle. You know, I've coached and you've coached also, and I've running a program now. You know, I I I get I I see things a certain way, but it just the conversation we were just having was interesting that you see it also about these players kind of thinking the grass is greener. Um you know, and it just it's just it's just an interesting conversation, and I always love hearing other people's perspective of it. Um, you know, like I said, you're you're you're involved in the sport heavily and you see players, you know, maybe some of the travel teams maybe popping up different. What's your your kind of take on that?

SPEAKER_02 1:36

Well, I I was raised by a coach, my father was a coach, so you know, back then there was never questioning of a coach, it it just wasn't something you did. So now we have that. And um I think with the proliferation of Travel Ball, quite honestly, it's gotten watered down. And therefore, you know, we have all these levels, these kids are spending lots of parents are spending lots of money, they want their kid to play, versus, you know, why why are we not making her earn that? You know, she should have it just because we paid. That's kind of the way it is. Now, what I see is we have kids that probably shouldn't be playing travel ball, playing travel ball, because you know, they can fork up the four grand or whatever, and that has really watered it down. And I think when you when your child makes a travel ball team, you think that that makes them good.

unknown 2:46

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

Well, that doesn't make them good. You know, if they progress to the level where they're good enough, then yes, that they will be considered to go to the next level. But I I mean, I know you see this too, Chris. You have kids that play travel ball that I mean they're barely gonna start on your varsity, or barely gonna start on your JV. Yeah. I mean, so right. So, and that's kind of what we see. Now, certainly as a capitalist, uh, I mean, there's lots of games for us to do, and and we love that. I mean, I do a lot of games, but I do think that that has set a tone for the travel ball coaches slash programs to have all of these internal issues.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

So it's it's it's just cool hearing another perspective because Chris and I talk about this is where you know we're coming from coaching and you know, that that type of level. So to hear an umpires seeing that to me, that's wild.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

So and I was a player, of course. So I'm seeing kids that I'm like, oh boy. You know, it's like watching P dry sometimes. Versus, you know, we get to the good levels, and and I know now what it takes to be a college player because I'm I'm out there and I see them, and it and it's a different, it's a different animal, you know, as you get higher along the levels. It's a different animal than what we're dealing with every weekend.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

So what's your uh what's your thought on on this mindset? Because I've seen it on social media posts, is it's just it gives the the excuses, it gives more opportunities for more kids to play the game. Um I mean, I'm not saying I agree with that, but that is a point of view where people are like, it's good that we have all these teams. It gives more girls a chance to play the game.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

And and I agree with that. Um, I agree wholeheartedly with that, as long as you're playing at the right level. And as long as you are you are not developing expectations that you then place upon the coach of your travel ball team. So, you know, yes, more opportunities, but you still within that team need to earn those playing times, you know, those those abats, you need to earn them. And I think there's uh a disconnect some somewhere between I'm joining this team, I should be playing. There's a disconnect there.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Well, and I also think because it's gotten so just scrappy and down and dirty with programs trying to get players because it's become so polluted with uh non-strong players, um what we're seeing is you know, we're seeing promises being made. Like if a if a player is halfway decent, and like I've witnessed it. I've witnessed I've witnessed parents trying to recruit players out of our program that when they're jumping ship, they're telling everyone, oh, it's guaranteed playtime. They're they're offering and I'm like, and I'm like, like, do you like what does that mean? So so you you want to take your your your your child that you're trying to develop, that you're trying to teach work ethic, that you're trying to teach life lessons and buy a ticket to Easy Street? Like, I don't under like go for it. Because, first of all, two things are gonna happen. One, if that is the case, then your child's not gonna develop, they're not gonna learn adversity, and once they are challenged, it's gonna become a shit show. Uh, and number two, the moral reality of it is I 50 bucks says they're not getting the guaranteed playtime. It's not what they were told it is. These programs out there now are getting very creative. So we're we're at tryout season now, right? It's peak time, right? So some of the questions I get um that I've gotten the past couple days regarding the basically 16U level and above, they say, Mike, where where are your where are your teams showcasing? Can we can I have that? And I and I'm like, I no, we don't know because first of all, part of what we're gonna do is find out where these young ladies want to go to school on these teams and then create that path accordingly. Like if it's a team that's got a high-level team that these girls actually are have the potential to play college because the reality of it is we see showcase teams these days that I that these girls are never gonna that aren't gonna play in college. But if this is what you know a team that they could they truly do, how can I how could we just pick showcases that what if these have nothing to do with whether girls want to go to school? So, and like I I've said that to some of these parents, and like, oh, I didn't even think of that. I'm like, wait a second, so you're you're going to programs that are already giving you the schedule? They're like, Yeah, I'm like cool. I'm like, without eating they have no idea where your daughter wants to go, but that's your daughter's locked into those showcases.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Like, yeah, like I said, you're you're wasting time going to these showcases if there's college coaches there that you don't want to play for. Like, yeah, you know, you go to a showcase like in Colorado, and none of your players want to go to any colleges out there. So what's the point?

SPEAKER_00 8:05

It's but that's you know, unfortunately, that's it's it's become a big show these days with these teams. It's a lot of glitz, it's a lot of, you know, we see the Chris and I like talk all the day. We see the posts on Facebook, and and half the time we're like, all right, that is such bullshit. Like we see and we know. I'm like, oh my god, like like this is such smoke in mirrors. This is such like, and you know, you you think that people see through it, but then like I'll hear like, oh, we're considering that team. Like, oh my god, they don't see the like they they actually think this is real. I'm like, uh, have fun. It's wild.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

Well, and the fact that they're so involved in the whole thing, you know, like they feel like they should be asked whether or not their kids should play that day. I mean, it you know, uh again, like you said, life lessons. The sports are life lessons. Sports have taught me to be a team member, they've taught me to be a better employee, but none of that came easy, and that's what they're looking for. Something to come easy. Why would you want your kid to have guaranteed playing time? I I don't understand that.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

Yeah, but that's that, but that's those are the the hooks that are being thrown out there. And you know, and we we always say, like, it's got everything, it's gotta be earned. It's it's you know, we look, we have developmental teams that go to the programs, and that's more, it's developmental. But to me, 14 and above, I would think that the players want to play in college at that level, you know, 10 and 12 of you, you know, you're gonna get a mix, you're gonna get girls that are in it that end up going to play another sport, and that's that's fine, you know, it's whatever works for them. But like if to me, 14 is kind of that line where it's like, I probably do want to play softball in college. So therefore, as an organization, if we're just making sure everybody gets to play on a Sunday and everybody's doing that, I to me I think we're failing them because we're not teaching them adversity.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

And you're teaching them that and and you're putting thoughts in their head that probably shouldn't be there.

SPEAKER_04 10:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

That they're better than they really are. And, you know, I mean, kids can progress from the time they're 14 till they're 17 and get a whole lot better.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 10:12

But not if they're on easy street, they're not going to.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

Oh, I a thousand percent agree. Chris and I speak about that all the time.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

You gotta push them, you know.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Yes, so let me uh ask you some pointed umpire questions. Okay. Um, how much training do umpires actually receive?

SPEAKER_02 10:30

We uh every year we do mechanics training. Um but I think there's a gap. We do a lot of training to do college ball, we do a lot of training to do USA softball. I can't speak to any of the other alphabet soups out there about what they train, like UAASA and literally, I don't know how much they train. But USA Softball, we do a lot of training. We do training every year. Um and but then again, you know, if I have a clinic, uh we we say it's mandatory, but you know, probably the people that show up are the people that really don't need the clinic, just like anything else. Um, and then high school we we do very little training. We we have a lot of meetings where we talk over situations and plays, but we don't actually have a lot of on you know mechanical mechanics training, which is what they really need. Um but yeah, every year, and we do those things in January and February, and we're constant, um, we're constantly in the book. Um, at the college level, we have to take a test every year. At the high school level, you take a test once in your life, and if you pay us, you're you're in.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

Um that's that's apparent.

SPEAKER_02 11:41

That is apparent. And and Chris, you know how hard I work at trying to get that better, but it's just not. I mean, there's just not.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

All right, so that that segues into this one. How do umpires review and improve performance?

SPEAKER_02 11:57

That's a good one. Um in years very past, we would have umpire evaluators that would go out and watch, and you wouldn't know they were there when I first started. Now we just don't have enough umpires to do that because on any given day, everybody's on a field. So we don't really now in USA softball, as I said, I go around to tournaments this weekend. I was at the net, I was the umpire in chief. I was going around, I was at every field. I was watching, I was writing things down, I was given evaluations. Um and and uh the umpires that we have working, they like that. They they want to learn. Um but you know, we have that abyss that is the high school umpire that doesn't get we rate each other after a game, but you know, are people really gonna be frank about that when you're able to read it?

SPEAKER_03 12:46

Right.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

Like, are you gonna trash me when I get to read that evaluation?

SPEAKER_00 12:52

You know, is it difficult to because I'm sure it's had to happen where you know, maybe an ump is just really is not there, struggling and and causing you issues every week, and then maybe you go kind of observe, you're like, oh dear lord. Like, is it is it difficult to let an umpire go? It is. And do you let umpires go?

SPEAKER_02 13:11

Well, this is funny. I shouldn't even answer this. But in high school, you cannot let an umpire go. What you can do is not assign them games and hope that they go on their own. Interesting. Now, I've done that to two people. That's like silent firing. To two people in the last five years I've gotten rid of that way. I just we just because the one we were having some.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

So did they ever ask you why I'm not getting games?

SPEAKER_02 13:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

And you say what?

SPEAKER_02 13:40

You need to earn games. Just like you need to earn playing time.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Now, you know, and you've experienced this um a few years ago, I was probably on the phone for four hours every weekend, and a lot of it has to do with assigning, putting umpires where they are capable of being, right? So that's what I strive to do when I assign. Like I assign uh 43 college teams, umpires for 43 college teams, and I try to, you know, uh put maybe a less strong person with a really strong person, just to kind of balance that out and help train that other individual. Um, at the high school level, we really haven't been doing that much, but we will be from now on because we've had a change.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

But um, do you have a different scheduling philosophy when it comes to the matchups on the games?

SPEAKER_02 14:35

Yes. Well, I do. But in years past, we haven't had that at that level. We will have that now.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Because you are well aware of who the who the top matchups are each.

SPEAKER_02 14:46

Absolutely. And you know, in in in in the LL, it I it it hurts me to say this, but on any given night, think about it, Chris. There's probably what, four, five big matchups on any given night. That's it. Every other game is yeah, so what I've been striving to do, and what is gonna this year and the next year, it's gonna get a lot better. We we have a we we do have a lot of good umpires, but we need to get those good umpires paired on those good games.

SPEAKER_04 15:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:15

And that after that one debacle we had where it was like three games in a night that were just awful, we've made those changes. So you will see more and more of better umpires on big games. I mean, you know, you got Solanko E Town, but you can't have you gotta have two good umpires on that. So that's where we're headed.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Um, you got anything while I scroll through my list of questions?

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Um I mean, I always have great.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

I got one. So what rule in the book would you and I got this? I got two questions now that I thought about it. What rule would you like would you change? Is there if any, would you change any of the rules?

SPEAKER_02 16:02

Well, the only thing that I would do, given that I do three different rules codes, I would put the rules codes all the same. So we have different pitching rules for USA versus high school versus college. So as a kid grows up, we're teaching them one way, and then all of a sudden they need to change. And that's why we see the illegal pitch pitching situations that we have. Because you know in high school you're allowed to step back. We sure can't do that in college, right? So I I just and there's other rules too that I wish they would all just be this be the same.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

Yeah, because I've seen that that's actually a really good point because I've seen that, especially with the pitching, like with different positions and different, and someone will call something, and I'm like, where I I've never heard that before. Like, what is that rule? And the problem is, you know, with something like that, and if a pitcher's not trained, you can see they're they're like kind of rattled, especially at the young ages, like and you could see them getting all off, like with their mechanics, uh, because then they're trying not to get in trouble.

SPEAKER_02 16:59

And you can't change something like that in a game.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

So you basically you want to like basically a universal rule book across the board.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

Yes. I I would like it if all of our rules, because it's difficult to train umpires because we all do multiple levels because there just aren't enough of us.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

Right.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

And so one one day I could do a USA softball game, the next day do a high school game, and the next day do a college game. I got three different sets of rules codes.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

Yeah. So I mean, I'm not that bright. You're gonna confuse them. I'm not that bright.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

So uh I that's what I would I mean, there are some rules that I usually say. You know what, I don't make the rules, I just enforce them, but none are coming to me right now.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

So that uh that leads me to a specific rule. What is the book definition of an infield fly?

SPEAKER_02 17:46

Ah, yes, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

An infield fly. You probably don't remember, but when I was back in Rec, I had an issue with you on an infield fly call. Well, you've been holding on the call.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

I do not remember. You've never had an issue with this.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

It was not like an argument or nothing. I just didn't agree with you, did you call Did you set this recording up tonight just to bring that to bring this question up? I think it just popped in my head when we were talking about rules.

SPEAKER_02 18:10

Well, but see, the thing about Chris is I know he looked at the rules book, so I can't just BS him because he looked. Yeah. And he'll say, I can't find a rule for that. Why are you looking at the rule book? Um, the infield fly rule. Okay, that this that's a great question. It's in play when there's either runners on first and second or basis loaded less than two outs, right?

SPEAKER_03 18:31

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 18:32

We call infield fly when there is a pop in the infield, pop fly in the infield within the confines of the infield that can be caught with relative ease. And what's it normal? Well, there we go with that subjectivity again. Um I base that on the level that I'm at, right?

SPEAKER_04 18:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

So a college kid's gonna catch a lot more than a 10-year-old is. So if I feel like that 10-year-old is not gonna get to that ball, I'm not calling it, right? The other thing that comes into play is the weather, the wind, whatever. Just I always always have to keep in mind that the infield fly is a rule that protects the offense.

SPEAKER_04 19:18

Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

Right? It is there to protect the offense. So I'm not gonna call it if it's a ball that I think might get down, because I'm not because then I'm giving the defense an out.

SPEAKER_04 19:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:29

So, but it's the whole thing is with normal effort. Right. The play needs to be made with normal effort.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

Not like a diving awesome catch.

SPEAKER_02 19:39

Correct. So and it has to be in the field of play.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

And it's because I I I've seen it where as soon as that ball goes up in the air, into a fly. Absolutely. It's like without even without even glancing down to see what actions the infield's taking.

SPEAKER_02 19:52

Correct. We are taught to not make that call till the apex of the pop-up. Okay. So you shouldn't be.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

And you're not following the ball the whole way. You gotta look at it.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

You should not be following the ball. But we should umpires, and this is what we teach, you shouldn't ever follow the ball. The kid will take you to where the ball's going, right? Just like when I'm behind a plate and there's a pop-up that goes and I have no freaking idea where it is, I just watch the catcher's shoulder. She'll take me to it, right? So any pop-up, I watch the kid, I'm not watching the ball because there's a whole lot that can happen down here when I'm watching that ball. And that the the obstruction, the interference, those are the things we need to be aware of, not watch the ball. So when the ball goes up, I know it's in the infield, I just watch players and then I make my determination. But I don't say it as soon as the ball's hit, you know.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

Yeah, my my mine with you, mine with you was what was it? It was we were on our JV field, and it was a pop-up to the third towards the third baseman, and the it was the wind was blowing decent, and it was carrying her further and further out towards the outfield, and you called infield fly, and I'm like, that was not normal effort. Like she had to so that was my only disagreement with you.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

You were right then. You were right.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

That was my only in all these years, my only disagreement.

SPEAKER_02 21:06

If it was not normal effort, you're you were right. I I blew it.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

But yeah, that's my least favorite rule is the drop third strike. The the drop third strike just gets very frustrating to me, probably as a pitcher's dad. Um, probably it's just it's but like it's just a frustrating rule because and I actually watched it at my son's baseball tournament this week and they halfway through the which was entertaining, halfway through the game, somebody pulled out a rule book and said, actually, there's drop third strike. So literally halfway through the game, they started calling it. They started calling it. I'm like, how how like this is wild. Um, but none of the boys had ever done that. So, like, literally every drop, and again, it was 10U um baseball. So there was a lot of drop third strikes and kids just standing there not knowing what to do. I mean, it was like I I feel like saying, dear lord, just let them finish the game without it, because this is cringe to watch.

SPEAKER_02 22:04

Well, and that's why in softball in rec at 10U, we don't have, we don't have a third strike. No. And I don't even know if they do it at 12U. They do. Do they? Well at in the record. Yes. I think so.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

It's been a while.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

The problem with the other problem with the drop third strike is a lot of kids don't understand it. Therefore, they think every time they drop a third strike, they should throw it to first.

SPEAKER_04 22:32

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 22:33

Well, that's a live ball, so I can't stop that. They're throwing it first, the runners are going hell hell fire around the bases, and we got chaos, but it really wasn't a drop third strike because there was a runner on first. But they they don't understand that. And they're too young to understand that. So that's my issue.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Is it a drop third strike if it hits the ground and it's caught?

SPEAKER_02 22:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

Okay, so it hits the ground or it falls out of their glove. Um give me here's another one. Let me get this interference and obstruction right.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

That's my favorite.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Obstruction on so the catch was thrown to third in the batter with the batter.

SPEAKER_02 23:13

Oh, we had that discussion.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

Give me your take on what is and is not obstruction? Did I get that right? On the batter.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

Interference.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

So what batter's interference.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

So what is the actual rule? Because I think I know what it is.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

Is that what was called on my daughter? That's with that game that the um the coach case.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

I'll explain how I saw that on Game Changer after you tell me what constitutes it.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

Well, that is a tough one. And it there's different rules for it in different rules codes. But the the night you called me about that. It was a fall late game. You called me about that because the umpire didn't call it. Um I think that you know, people think the batter's box is a safe space, just like they think the circle is a safe space, it's not. Um it was the dumbest thing they ever created was that circle. So because people think once the ball's a circle, no, but nothing can happen. Yes, it can. Yes, it can. So that batter's box, the batter needs to make an attempt to get out of the way. Now, you can have people misunderstand, you can have batters interference if she does it unintentionally. You don't have to intentionally interfere to be interference. So if she's standing in the path of the catcher making a throw to third, that's batter's interference. If she's standing in that path. I've had kids already, catcher comes up, comes forward, kid steps forward, you know, to get and in the path. If they get out of the path, then it's not batter's interference.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

So so I I could be wrong here, and I'm I'm open to being taught something. So I was under the impression that if that as if that that pitch comes in, if that batter does not move an inch, and the catcher can do her thing. But and I and I agree, and it's true that this the box isn't a safe haven, just because you're still in that box, you can't move. Any any movement you make that could impede her is interference. We got into it. But if she doesn't move, because I teach my girls if the runner at second or third, don't move in that box until that ball's away.

SPEAKER_02 25:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

So as long as she doesn't move, she doesn't move.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Because if she doesn't move, that catcher knows to get around her. I mean, the catcher has some responsibility here too. So, yes, that's what you should teach. Just stand there. The problem is they're there, they see the catcher come, they they do a little dance. Well, then we got them, right? Yeah, then they're in the way. Um, but again, you you always pick on these things that are judgment related. Yes, there's a rule, but there is that's why we get paid so well, Chris. We have to make a judgment. Oh, I'm you know what what happened there. But yes, teach them to not move.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

Are you do you think umpires have the ability to determine if that catcher intentionally hit that batter most times to try to draw most times, but most times, yes. So have you called it? Have you seen that happen?

SPEAKER_02 26:11

I don't call that very often. I've seen I've seen catches.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Because you know those coaches out there coach to throw absolutely throw it at head, throw it in the head.

SPEAKER_02 26:18

Yeah, I'm not giving them that. Nope. You you can tell. Now now I've told college coaches already that I don't know what was in that kid's head, and that's a great out for things, but but it you know when a catcher's trying to do that.

unknown 26:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

I mean, you've I've seen social media media videos where it was blatant, like the catcher was clear and threw like 45-degree angle to hit the band. Just to do it, just to try to get it.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

And so we need to watch the path of the ball, and you know, yeah. If she's just throwing at her head now. No.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

Mike, what do you got?

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Yeah, no, just this it happened to it was, and one of the things that bothered me was it was so it was, I don't know, like a week ago, a tournament, two weeks ago, a couple weeks ago. Um, my daughter was in the box, she was a bat. There was a play, I guess the girl tried to steal third. Um, and the the coach came screaming out of the dugout, the other coach saying, She's out about my daughter, because he said she stepped out of the box.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

Was that right? So, how I saw it on Game Changer, which we all know the view, is the ball hit the dirt, got away, and actually went behind and to and away from Hannah, who was in the batter's box. So the catcher had to go chase the ball and throw it. There was no there was no interference, as far as I'm concerned, because the ball was clear of the batter.

SPEAKER_02 27:38

Did he think did he think Hannah was in the catcher's way when she was going to get it?

SPEAKER_01 27:42

Uh she didn't, she was, as far as I saw, she didn't move.

SPEAKER_02 27:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

Um, and that's why I'm like, when he says called interference, I'm like, she didn't move. The catcher had to go around her to get the ball, but she didn't move. Yeah. So there should have been no interference.

SPEAKER_00 27:57

And well, what did they call? They called nothing. They might call it, but he was mad that they didn't call it. Yeah, he was and he came out of the dugout screaming. She's out like pointing at her. And I jumped up from the sidelines because I'm like, I so I got pissed because you could see she got like a little bit wrapped. Yeah. And and I screamed, like, he does not make the calls, the umps make the calls, and then I like kind of went after like our coaches. I'm like, you have got to shut that down. He does not come out of the dugout. Because then, like, A, we had momentum going. So, like, we started to get a rally going, it it literally hit pause and everything. And then do you think that had something to do with it?

SPEAKER_02 28:36

I see that all the time.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Possibly, but I see that all the time. I don't know if I give some of these coaches the credit for taking that far ahead.

SPEAKER_00 28:42

Then the next the next pitch was wild again, and you could literally see Hannah all freaked out, all freaked out, and I was like, I was seeing red.

SPEAKER_01 28:52

That's the New York that comes out easy.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

I was like going up and down that sideline, like screaming. Um, because you again, what bothered me was like if she did something wrong, she's out. Like, I, you know, it's it's I don't really care. You're right, that's up to the umpire. Correct. And the fact that he came bolting out of that dugout, like screaming at my door. I was like, I was like, this guy for real? And like, I'm like, absolutely not. I said to the um, like, you gotta like that's no way. He can't like that, should not be allowed. He can't come out of the dugout screaming like that at a player. I would have shut him down. The umps did not, which is all right.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

So let me ask you, is there such thing as makeup calls?

SPEAKER_02 29:34

I love that. Absolutely. I don't I don't try to do that. I mean, I try not to, but sometimes it happens. I feel like I made a bad call. When I watch things, no, I don't do that.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

If I if I made a if you made a bad call, are you gonna overcall a call that shouldn't have been so that's that's I'm not, but I see that happen.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

I'm not gonna do that.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

I feel like that happens. Like we I feel like I've heard that and seen that numerous times of like that was a makeup call. Like he gave us that one.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

Like specifically the strike sound.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

Yeah, and you see it in basketball, you see it in every sport, the makeup call. But I don't feel like I'm gonna.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

You don't train, you don't train your the umstage makeup calls. No, I don't know. You're gonna make up, you better make you're gonna mess up and make it up to them.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

And the other thing that I've really tried to work on as I've gotten into higher levels, let it let that last pitch go. I mean, I it you know when you you know when you miss one. Jesus, you know when you and usually I'll say catch up blue that one. And they're okay, but you know, they know we're not perfect, but but I've gotten better at okay, that call's over. Flush it, just like a player, flush it. So no, I I really don't I try not to do that makeup call stuff.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

So what do you think when when when a coach starts asking you, because I am a thousand percent guilty of this, when I'm when I'm getting, I'm not on the same page. I'll I'll say this politically correct politely. When the ump and I are on the same page with the strike zone, I'll start saying, Where'd that miss?

SPEAKER_01 30:58

Where do you do you guys like hearing that from coaches? You know, where'd that miss?

SPEAKER_02 31:04

I don't mind it if it's once or twice, but you got these guys that ask every pitch, then I'm gonna come over and say, dude, no more.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

Because there's a difference between honestly asking where the pitch was and and and also saying that to let you know that I didn't agree with your question.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

Well, it's passive aggressive. I've done it both ways. I will say I have done it once where I've I I think the first time if I ask, I'm actually asking legitimate, and I'll tell the catcher when I ask that question, pay attention. I'm like, or if you feel it was a strike, like saying, where did that miss? So you could tell the cat, like we need to we need to find their zone. Yes. But like if it's they're kind of all over the map, then I'll say it like two or three times basically to be a dick. Like I like now, now I'm making it clear that I'm I'm I'm annoyed at what I'm watching.

SPEAKER_02 31:50

That well, that does, I mean, that doesn't really happen to me that much, but what does annoy me is this there are two people in that entire arena that see the pitch the best.

SPEAKER_04 32:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

She sees it better than me, and I'm second, right? That catcher sees the ball, right? What bothers me more than anything is when the coach says, Sarah, where did that miss? And she goes, and she'll go, it didn't miss, or or like, I don't know. Like being a little asshole, right? The catchers I love, Elise. Coach that was like two inches outside.

SPEAKER_04 32:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

Because they see it like I see it.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

Or the or the base the base coaches questioning the zone. Like, you have the worst view of it.

SPEAKER_02 32:39

Yeah, you're way down there. But like in the I was on the play for the uh 6A district championship, um central dolphin chambersburn. Central Dolphin catcher is right, so first inning, balls three inches outside, they have that big lefty, and I ball it. She holds it there.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

The old hold.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

And then and and holding is fine, but it's when it goes past that split second, and then she literally turns and says to me, Blue, where did that miss? I reached down and I said to her, It was three inches outside. You saw it just like I did. And if this continues, you will never get another strike called. That girl didn't turn around the rest of that game.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 33:28

Because don't show me up. Right. I mean, if I miss one, I'm gonna tell you I missed it. But don't show me up. Like that's the worst thing you can do. I mean, and you should teach catch. Teaching a catcher how to work with an umpire is probably the most important thing you can do. Yeah, because that good catcher is gonna get a lot for you.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

Oh, and like I've heard them say we've had catchers that will say when I've said where'd that miss? I've had the catcher look at me and say, that was out. I'm like, ah, I'll say. And then you honestly, you'll never hear another peep out of me the rest of that game.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

But Elise was really good. She she can teach catchers because A, I like a catcher that's out of my way, right? And you know, the one now we're we're getting way down. I love it. I can see better. You know, when you're doing a college game and this girl's 6'1 and weighs 240, I can't see anything. So I love that. I I'm the other thing is to stick a pitch. Like, remember that there is a perception of us that everybody down there and everybody down there has. So if a ball comes in and hits the outside corner and you catch it like that, I'm balling that.

SPEAKER_03 34:37

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

Right? And I say, you just you just you just lost that pitch for your pitcher. Like, stick it.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:43

It it it it it was a strike, but I can't call that.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

No, 100%. Right?

SPEAKER_02 34:48

Right, right? So so that catcher working with me. I mean, and we talk, we talk about it amongst ourselves. There are catchers that we absolutely love, and they make the game so much easier for us. So the catcher is key. That's a great very key. Very key.

SPEAKER_01 35:03

On a personal level note, I like that you guys liked my daughter when she called.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

Absolutely love that kid. Well, she wasn't gonna she didn't say anything that wasn't ever true.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

Now, the only difference was when you I can't remember his name, and I don't want to name him, but you have an umpire that uh even with Avery on her knees, he's still shorter than so. I don't know how he saw around her for any pitch.

SPEAKER_02 35:24

I know who that is. But but Avery Avery gave you a lane to see the pitch, and that's what we need.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

Yeah, yeah, that's a great point.

SPEAKER_02 35:33

I mean, I had a kid this year, I was at I was at Bloom for Bloom and East Stroud, and the ball's coming in, and the catcher moves.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

She blocks your view.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

Yeah, guess what that was? It was a ball, and the East and the Bloom cat coach was having a heart attack. I said, Coach, I didn't see that pitch. I said, She moved in front of me. Well, guess what? She never moved again.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

All right, so let's put a bow in the catcher stuff. Give us for anybody out there who has catcher kids or for catchers are listening, what are some what's some advice on how to have a good relationship with your umpire? Just some key points.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

Well, I always love the kid that has a great sense of humor and is sarcastic, but you can't you can't get that every time. Um but one that will, like I said, make themselves small, give me a lean to the pitch, stick the strikes, don't question me when you see that ball's three inches outside. I mean, we have to have a working relationship here.

SPEAKER_04 36:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:35

And again, human being, human being, you know, if you if you're gonna do things that make me mad, uh we're we're gonna shrink. I mean, that's just the way it's gonna be. So yeah, that catcher relationship is is probably the best, the most important relationship in any softball game. Um and then the other thing is, uh and I've had catchers do this, the pitcher's out there rolling her eyes, and you know, and the catcher will say, time. And she'll go out there and straighten that out because because they know we three need to work together. And you're seeing what she's seeing. I'm seeing what she's seeing. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

What just for my knowledge for the going forward? What would I need to do to get ejected without cursing? Outside of cursing on the field, what what would I need to do to get ejected?

SPEAKER_02 37:27

Get personal. We won't take it when you're personal. If you can say that was a horrible call, and I can live with that. But if you say you're horrible, that's different. You're gone. Now, Chris, I gotta tell you, in 18 years, I've thrown five people out. Five. Three of them were players, and two of those were where they started a fight. So, like, I mean, I've literally only ever I've never thrown a coach out. I've I've thrown some parents out.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

I don't know if that tells me that you're not hard enough or you take too much abuse, or you just haven't run into a lot of well again, it goes back to I think I have an advantage number one.

SPEAKER_02 38:06

Being female, I don't get yelled at as much. And and I mean, I'm gonna take that. Uh and being female, I've risen through the ranks a little quicker. And it's a female sport, and I probably should, but I don't get that much. And the other thing, and I tell these guys all the time, if you hustle when you get in position, they're not gonna yell at you. They might say, Oh, you blew that one, but they're not gonna come out there screaming.

SPEAKER_00 38:29

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 38:30

You mean like overturning a uh call at first base from behind the plate?

SPEAKER_02 38:33

Yeah, I if I Chris, if I'd have been you, I would have, I would have gone bananas. I I totally agree with you. And and when you called me, I have no defense for that. I don't have a defense for that. I can just address it with with the with the person that was involved. But so no, I mean, if you go out there and start screaming, the only the the only coach I almost ever threw out was it was at one of our Lebanon schools, and it was a JV coach that was coaching varsity, and I made a call at third, and he started yelling at me from the from the dugout. I walked over and I said, Coach, if you ever do that again, you won't be here long. Well, I just had a couple questions, but call time and come out like don't scream, don't, don't create that you know, that confrontational situation. But no, I've never thrown a college coach out, I've never thrown a LL high school coach out. I'm I think I threw a coach out that was a a a travel ball coach.

SPEAKER_01 39:29

So and I so and he wanted to get thrown out in order to spark my team next year. If I need to, I now I know what I need to do to get ejected and get personal. Personal is what and and you know I just so you know, if if it if it happens, it's not meant to be personal, it's to spark my team, but I need to get ejected.

SPEAKER_02 39:47

Well, it's Earl Weaver. Start kicking dirt on me.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

So quick question. So, like like you said, Chris, I guess, called with a concern that he had at one game and you you spoke. How um do the do the umpires, and I'm sure that's not the only time it happened where you may say, Hey, I got a call, how um overall, what would you say the the is it are they receptive to that or do they get very defensive, or are they typically like, no, I I probably should have done differently?

SPEAKER_02 40:12

Well, I think all three of those things happen, but but the one thing I'll do is before I get into it, is I get their side of the story. I mean, because a lot of times, as you know, you'll hear like this whole garden spot thing that happened last week. When you when you got that that coach's point of view, and you got Saul's point of view, who was there, and then you got the umpire's point of view, it was like they were in three different places, yeah, right? So I at least have to get their take on things, and then we discuss it. And I will have to say that probably 75% of the time they're very receptive, and they they they you know, they throw themselves on the sword, they know they make mistakes. Yeah, but I guess it's a little bit harder for guys to admit mistakes than it is for girls. I don't know. Yeah, but I feel like I developed mistakes, but yeah, I developed more of a rapport with you if I'm gonna say, you know what, Chris, I blew that one. Rather than me trying to to hold on to something that's not true.

SPEAKER_01 41:09

So it looks like uh we're getting towards the end here. Is there anything else you want to ask?

SPEAKER_00 41:16

No, I mean it's it's look it's the it's it absolutely to me the umpires dictate, and I can tell you now, like just when we do these tournaments, like a lot of times like the first thing we'll say is, Oh, good, we've got that person. Yep, like literally, and they'll be like, Oh, you gotta be kidding me that person again. Like, literally. I want midgel on all my games, so it's it's but it's it really I it is that important because it sets because and with that said, the players too, the players like oh we got that, oh like, oh no, or they're like, Oh, that up was good, yes. So it's it's it really is that's why we wanted everyone because at the at the core, right at the dead center of it all, are the umpires. Um, and the last thing that we want to do, you know, and I always say like we play these games, especially to get older, they get more competitive, like we have our hands full enough as it is. We don't want to be fighting and playing against the umpires, also, you know, so it's it's got to be fighting two teams, it's gotta be a good working relationship. Um, you know, I always teach the the players and the coaches, like always be respectful. And like I said, I mean I I I would be lying if I said that there weren't you know times where I blew up and you know that's it's human nature. Um, but I do always try to tell, make sure that you know everybody's on the same page and respectful. And you know, if there is an issue, try to, like you said, ask the question like, hey, how did you come about that call?

SPEAKER_02 42:44

Um, you know, trying to Well, the other thing is is I'm I'm gonna let you have your say, okay? And and at the college level, we have to do that. These guys are coaching for their lives, right? It's their livelihood. You have to give them their say. And we're gonna discuss this and then it's over. And that's a big key. When it's over, it's over. I don't want to hear about that in the next inning, in the fourth inning, in the fifth. That's gonna, we are gonna have a problem then. Yeah, but but most people, if you let them say their say and you go back and tell them what you think, then they get over it. It's the guys like you know, that that keep going and going and going. That's how you get thrown out, too, by just hanging on to that one thing. You know, you're talking about that pitch in the first inning, you're talking about it in the sixth. I mean, we got to move on, and and therefore your kids are still thinking about it in the sixth. Of course, of course, versus thinking about, okay, I gotta, I gotta get this bunt down, right? So, yeah. But but I understand where you're coming from. I mean, remember, I do weekend ball too, I see what's out there, and it's not always good. And I mean, we're doing the best we can.

SPEAKER_00 43:49

And no, we appreciate it. Like I said, we always I always appreciate a game that's done and done well because you know, at the end of the day, when it's a good game and it's a well-umped game, it just makes it win or lose like a good experience. Yes. And that's always a key. Um, and that's what we always try to go for, like a competitive game called well, that I'll take that all day long.

SPEAKER_02 44:14

Well, and my idea of a good game is if if if I leave and you guys are talking about the game three days later, you can't remember who the umpire was.

SPEAKER_04 44:25

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 44:26

So I am trying to not inject myself into that game. That's a great point. I I as an example, I went up to the uh Friday, the the three PIAA, I didn't went to the 2A, the 4A, and the 6A championship game. And I'm sitting in stands, right? Just all alone, sitting in the stands. And one of the crews came out, and I was sitting on one side because I was kind of going back and forth based on where the sun was. And all these people were like, look at this motley crew, and I was like, Oh boy, here we go. And you know what? It just continued from there. That's funny.

SPEAKER_01 45:02

So yeah, you you well, Midge, it's been a pleasure having you hearing your stories and and your points of view and clarifying some rules for us. Um you know, it's just goes like this. Everybody out there listening is everybody's human, coaches, players, the umpires. It's only a game. Um parents quit get off the umpires' backs. You're there to watch the game and encourage your players. Um, you should have nothing to say to the umpires. Um, I don't want to hear you screaming out from the corner, you suck, or and all this. Just get over yourselves. Sit there and watch the game. Coaches, respect the umpires, they'll respect you back. Um, I I've you know, I get it into a disagreement with an umpire. I don't yell at them. I could tell them that it was a terrible call, um, but then I move on with life. I mean, it's this is not worth the stress you cause yourselves over getting all excited over an umpire. I mean, or anything in the game. So just everybody needs to get along and you just experience it much much better. Uh take your aggression out on the punching bag at home, not the umpires. Yeah, um, they're doing this for probably not very great pay, and which they deserve more. Um, and it's the main reason I believe of how parents and coaches treat umpires of why we're losing them and why we're not getting more umpires in. So if you want to complain about the the quality of the umpire, maybe look in the mirror and it's because of you. Yep. Um, so and anyway, thanks for listening again. Follow us on Spotify, Amazon Music and Apple Podcasts, hit us up at softballsoundolf at gmail.com, hit us up on the socials, and uh thanks for listening. And uh thanks, Midge, appreciate it. Yeah, thank you. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_02 46:51

It was fun. Thanks a lot. Thanks, guys. All right,