Breaking The Silence: The Aftermath of Suicide; Episode 2

James and Shawn continue their conversation from the Pilot episode and discuss being there for our warriors and their struggles, as well as honoring our families as the silent warriors.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Please be advised that the following podcast contains language that may be triggering or traumatizing to some audiences. Viewer discretion is advised.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Good evening, everyone. Welcome to The Heroes in the Sky and Nautical Salute as we are bringing you the second episode of Breaking the Silence Together, the Aftermath of Suicide Podcast. We want to, first of all, we want to thank everybody for listening. And we but we really want to thank our sponsors, American Legion Post 135 and Savannah, Georgia. They are our title sponsors this year. We want to thank them very much for allowing us to purchase programming and make this dream possible. So the American Legion Post 135, they're located in historic downtown Savannah at 1108 Bull Street. They are a member of the largest veteran service organization in the nation. They were founded on the principles of service to our veterans and to our community, state, and nation. Their membership is open to any veteran who has served honorably and to active duty service members. They are home to the local 1110, Betty Bombers, Brighter Day, Centennial Bean, and Lee Chai. And their bar is always open to the public. They hold several events in their ballroom each year. And those those events are open to the public. And that ballroom is also for rent. So if you're in the Savannah, Georgia area or you want to host an event here, go talk to our friends over at the American Legion. Plenty of room, just very nice atmosphere. So go talk to them. So Sean, welcome in for episode number two.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Hey, thanks. Thanks. And uh, you know, I I really appreciate um this partnership and and just being able to uh share the information that we that we bring every couple weeks here uh about the importance of you know veterans and and suicide as well as the uh the the families.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

So absolutely. Yeah, we our organizations that's that's a lot of the stuff that a lot of the things that separate us from a lot of the pack is the fact that we focus our efforts and energies on the families and those ones that this trauma carries to one when a loved one dies by suicide. And so it's it's a powerful intersection when you you get to interact with these families, with these mothers, with these spouses, and you get to hear their grief firsthand. And it it really does one, it makes you appreciate the blessings that you have, but it it makes you also it produces sympathy too, where you know you want to look after these families because they've already been through a lot.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

You know, you just you just said something specifically about the intersection, right? And that that takes me back to a little bit of the military days where I'm thinking about in land navigation, you got intersection and resection, right? Like so once you get to that point and you and you look back and you and you're and you're shooting your back asthma and such, you know, the families are part of kind of that resection kind of coming back. So I just it kind of like one of those things just clicked with me. It's like, wow, okay, like you said, intersection, and automatically I'm thinking back like okay, our families are kind of like that that resection where it's almost like the mirror, too, right? What we put out is oftentimes kind of what we get back sometimes, correct, correct.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

And a lot of our trauma mirrors, you know, we it's going to reflect if we're having issues or if if it's untreated or any of these other purposes, it it sometimes will reflect back on our families because they're the ones that have to deal with the side effects or our behaviors due to post-traumatic stress. And that it's not something they can just walk away from. Our families have have been here for us through thick and thin, through our military service days, to when we took the uniform off, to the constant triggers throughout the daily our daily lives that people just don't talk about. Our families are our heroes that that stick beside us even in those tough situations. And I like to say thank you to my family because I don't I don't think I give my family or my wife enough credit for what she's allowed me to do with this organization, just supporting me and um you know, throughout this process.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

You know, one of the things that we forget about and don't think about as as veterans uh in general, and you know, going through our healing process and how it comes is how lucky we are when we actually do have a spouse that cares and wants to put in the time and the effort to give us a space or opportunities um to like feel comfortable, but also be part of it too. Because I know your wife, your wife is very active with a lot of the things that you do uh within the organization as well.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

She does a lot of the graphic, she does a lot of the you know, she does logo creations, uh flyers if we need them. She does a lot behind the scenes, and I don't think I've I've given her enough credit over the years for what she's she's done. So I just wanted to do that.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

So behind every every strong man or woman is the is is is another strong man or woman that that that is there to kind of help cut the pieces.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

All right, and they're the true first responders. They're the they're the they're the ones that they they respond to what we what we bring home. And that's that's that's important to notice because that's not an easy life sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

You know, I I know you were you're mentioning like the addictive behaviors and some of those other hidden battles at home. Like, you know, what are what are some things? Um what are some things that like typically like veterans or or people who have had the trauma passed on to them, uh like family members, uh, because of you know their loved ones uh being veterans who have also uh you know died by suicide. Like what are some things there that you think they um that that that that gets passed on to them in that regard?

SPEAKER_00 6:51

So it's you know, it's it's depression, it's this is a morat of stuff right here. This could be anything from substance abuse, where if the if if you if you're struggling with substance abuse and your family, you're they're they're constantly surrounded by it, you may can they may become involved with the with that stuff. Um gambling is huge here. You know, a lot of people don't we don't talk about the gambling part of are these the vices that we turn to when we're trying to run from our trauma. Because I re we're we're trying to do anything we can to keep our mind off of the trauma. So while we're using vices like gambling, alcohol, and recreational substances, our families are going to feel the effects of those as well.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

Yeah. Well, uh a lot of those things actually, all of those things kind of come back to the financial part, right? It it's it's how they get themselves in positions to feed a vice, or they think it's gonna make them feel better if they do this, but I mean it it creates other problems, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Mm-hmm. Well, of course it does. You know, instability fight with finance is just you're now you're on just a spiral, right? So now you're talking about emotional detachment from your family because you're maybe you're you've you become addicted to these things, so you're spending every bit of your free time distancing yourself from your family and focusing on on these vices that that are putting that are that are wedging but you know, your between yourself and your family, you know, and the the secrecy, right? The what are you hiding? Because you're you don't want your your your your spouse to know what you're hiding, or you try to keep it from them. And then what anytime you start introducing secrets into a relationship and you detach yourselves from your from your those that love you the most, of course you're going to create tension.

unknown 9:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Now, how are how do you communicate with each other when you know you're you're trying to you're you're hiding stuff from you know, you're hiding stuff from each other, or you just you know, you you maybe you don't know how to have the hard conversations about the financial instability. Because I don't know that's not that's just not a conversation you can approach and easily have.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

I wonder like what does that conversation between people, like especially when a veteran is so deep in it, like because I'm not gonna be able to know or or say to myself, I need to have this conversation, I need to be open to it. And I you know, I often wonder how does it actually go down? Because when you're in it, you don't see it.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

Right. And and in the emotions, think about all the emotions that are attached to this, and so to sort of those conversations, are they calm? Are they peaceful? Are you on edge and yelling at each other? Yeah, what it what you know, are you're just so detached emotionally that neither one of you is understanding each other. Yeah, it's it's one of those things. I think it's every couple, every relationship is going to be different, how you have that conversation. And I think the this the spouses and the first responders that are more connected to their warriors, right? You know, as far as what we were talking about, like part of the mission and part of the daily life, I think those conversations are gonna be a little smoother than if if you're a little detached or connect, you know, detached from your family.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Yeah, and having and having actually a partner who wants the same things and and and goals in life, right? And who can be supportive of one another. Um, but the key is it it takes effort from everybody, you know, yes to be able to have those conversations, to talk about financial insecurity or instability, to talk about addictions uh or addicted behaviors, um or obsessive behaviors, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:16

Because like obsession, addiction, and how quick they form and how quick a behavior becomes obsessive or addictive.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

Like the and then once they once you have that, your impulse control for those behaviors. We're not we ain't talking about those yet either. No, not at all. That's that's the impulse control leads to isolation, right? And then our poor judgment decisions, and we know that if you make a poor judgment decision that that that affects your family in a negative way, then that can also produce isolation, or that can also produce tension in within your relationship.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

And then ultimately, where does it go?

SPEAKER_00 12:03

You know, well, well, ultimately it goes to what what our entire programs are based around, and that's suicide. That's that's one of the culminating factors that predictor factor that once that isolation gets so deep, now your your your risk for suicide has has increased significantly.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Yeah. Well, and you know, and and talking about that specifically, when when you when you're moving into really the crux of it and the depths of it, the myths start popping up, you know, uh about suicide and the temporary feelings, right? Oh you know, making a permanent solution to a temporary problem. But oftentimes the way they feel about that, there's no way that that veteran or even you know spouse or child can really know that it is temporary because it feels so permanent and overwhelming, you know, things like um just bottling everything up, you know, burying them deep within side of you, you know. You go to sleep, yeah, you get temporary relief. But when you wake up, smack right in front of your face again. It's right, it's all back there. Um like from room to room, like through just years of carrying someone else's trauma and such, and in your own, right? Going into someone else's room, remembering certain situations, uh, smells, pictures. Um it's just it's it's nagging, it's all right there in the back. And you know, no one else really can see them from your perspective either, too.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Well, another thing we haven't talked about is how you talk about smells or are things you see or hear, how those are directly tied to triggers.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 14:03

And if you're suffering from post-traumatic stress and there are certain smells that trigger you, then that becomes another challenge for your family. I mean, my per I can say I can tell you if you've ever been covered in somebody else's blood, unfortunately, I've I have the smell of sulfur and the like to this day, large amounts of blood freak me out. Like, because I smell it, and because it's it's just because I've been covered in somebody else's blood, and there's certain sites that I don't I I shy away from. Like to this day, I still cannot sit in a Humvee because you know, I was part of a recovery asset team, and unfortunately, we dealt a lot with this. So between this the the smell of blood and then the sight of the the Humvees or the vehicles that were involved, it it produces significant triggers for me. So I can imagine what it does for somebody else.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

Yeah, I mean, and couple that with being around your loved ones when it's in and the feeling and need to mask it or hide it and bury it so our family and loved ones don't see the pain that that the veterans carrying or the traumas, like that's that's also very tiring, too.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Like keeping emotionally draining, it really is. Yeah, and it rears its ugly head because you you're only gonna be able to subdue it for so long, and that's that's the reality of what we're dealing with, is when your triggers become so strong or so impactful, you really you want to say you can control those triggers and you want to keep them from your families, but there's gonna be a point where they turn into an outburst, right? Or are you on the ground holding your head, or you're on the ground reliving uh a nightmare or a flashback, and no one understands why you're down there, they just look at you like you're crazy.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

Yeah, I mean, but they haven't lived that experience and understand and how could they, right? You know, right the the greatest thing that we can do with them is is hopefully be vulnerable enough to to let them in to uh to in small pieces. See, I I like to let people know that you've got to go in small chunks, right? You exposure therapy is is one thing for us, right? But to our families, they've been exposed to a lot of it, but the healing portion of it, it's it's not all at once. So, you know, while we may see that veteran, you know, who's in a crowded room, you know, the class clown kind of aspect of things, being the funniest person in the room, always making it's deflection, right? Or the one that checks on everybody else, but doesn't really feel like they have anybody that's gonna check on them. Um, the one who never wants to be a burden. These are all the things and the myths that they're telling themselves, because I've got to be tough or I've got to be strong, I've got to be well, what does that look like? You know, right? There's just so much to it that I that you know, a lot of peer-to-peer situations actually do help if they can't do it.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

They do, they do, but a lot of those what we're talking about myths is what are we doing to dispel the myths, is what I like to focus on. Because when you have feelings that that stay buried within you for years, wake up with you, go they're beside you everything you do, and you're fighting this mental war in silence, these feelings aren't so we need to quit using that word temporary because some parts of this are temporary, yes. Some parts will get better, some parts over time will get better, but you have to put the effort in. But nothing about some of this stuff is temporary because it's been dwelling for so long and we've been subduing it. That's why it's we have to start dispelling these myths. Like, I am strong enough, my family does need me. Like all the things that if you have contemplated suicide or you have bit yourself been in that situation where you were about to choose that action, then you all these things are gonna resonate with you. They should like my family's better off without me, or how many times do you see the that warrior, that veteran trying to make try doing things to get their family to be upset with them to validate the way they're feeling?

SPEAKER_01 19:01

Yeah, to make them be the bad guy because right we're not in the moment capable of seeing anything outside of ourselves. You know, we I hate to say it like this, but think back to like our kids and such when they're little and teaching them about affirmations, right? Believing in themselves. Why does it stop when they're kids? Why why can't we turn around and look in the mirror and actually be proud of who we are, love ourselves, learn to love ourselves again, and and be confident that we deserve those things too? And I'm not alone, I'm not weak, I'm not a burden.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

Well, and PTSD should not be seen as a weakness either. I think that's one of the problems we're having is our our society paints a picture that if you claim to have PTSD or you know, some of these symptoms, that it's a weakness that you're not strong enough to deal with it. But in reality, I think it's it we need to start inserting positive connotations on this. If you if you've been fighting this battle for years and years and years and it has not won yet, that is not a sign of weakness, that is a sign of strength. It's a sign that something is holding you here where you're continuing to fight your inner demons and they're not you're not letting them win. So look, let's completely dispel the fact that that PTSD is a weakness because it's not, it's not a weakness at all. It's I think it's it's a strength to say, hey, I have a serious problem, I need to do something about this.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Yeah, well, you you know, our support network, right? That's important to us. And oftentimes the when we're isolating, the closest person to us is our loved one or our spouse, you know, and you know, I I don't know if you know this, but I I have a tattoo and I'll and I'll show it right here. Um it's a little hard to see, but it says battle buddies, right? Our partners in this journey together of healing, that's really who should become our battle our new battle buddies because they're they're eating, sleeping, breathing, you know, and you know, hopefully they can learn how to help us too.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

Well, yeah. But that requires that requires conversation. That requires in other words, you have to start believing the affirmations that you are strong enough, that you that you are not a burden that you can open up to your family, if that makes any sense.

SPEAKER_01 21:49

I mean, when I was going through EMDR, that was that was key, right? Reframing those moments in time and affirmations that That you're okay. That you're safe now. Right. Yeah, I mean wow, just it's it's amazing when you're when you do have that support. And that's what I hope everyone watching, listening, um, can get to a place of is having just that one person. It doesn't have to be a group of people, just one person that you can connect with. Um and hopefully it's someone that's in your house.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

Well, yeah, that's that's the best scenario. Is it someone in your direct family that's close to you that you know that it is your spouse, it is your partner, your brother, somebody close that that it's around you enough where it's a constant sent sense of affirmation and belief. Not, you know, you get told one time and then you just no one ever tells you again. Like it's it's got to be something that you if if you're going to believe it, you have to hear it over and over, and you have to see that it, you know, start believing that it's real. That that you're not weak because you carry the wounds that nobody sees, right? That that your trauma does not have to define you, and your pain and anyone else's pain does not diminish your self-worth in any way. It means that it's just it's just trauma you have to deal with that you're gonna have to face head on, and that your healing is not bound by a specific time period, and there's no there's no direct command to to to show us our recovery path. Sometimes we you know we we learn that recovery path through the ones around us, through our battle buddies, through what we see that works, and affirmations, like con can continuing affirmations that you are strong enough, that you are good enough, that there that your pain is not the end of your story. While it's hard to deal with and it's it's it's not temporary by any means, your pain is not the end of your story.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Yeah, so so when you're thinking about and and talking about these things, um you know, I'm pretty sure you have several battle buddies in your life now. I you know, I'm one of them. Uh as and um but how important is that connection and checking in?

SPEAKER_00 24:42

Oh, that's that's incredibly important. Because that's it's some some let's talk about what this looks like. Some people think this is it takes a lot of time, or you know, you have to dedicate a lot of time. It's not, it's it's a quick text. Hey, you know, it's it's it's a text, it's a call. If you live close enough to them, inviting them out for a beer, hey, I'm going to the VFW this Friday, come hang out with me. It's the little stuff like that that maybe the difference between life and death. Because if they're teetering with that line that nobody cares about them or they're not wanted, and they're just in that that that head that mental headspace, that that cone of despair is what I like to call it, then you're not going to believe in yourself. You know, it's you your mind is almost sick because you're you're so depressed and you're you're so in such despair. But it's those ones around you that can that would have to pull you out of it and say, hey, let's let's go watch, you know, let's let's go watch a wrestling show or whatever you like to do, right? It could be anything, but it's those quick check-ins that it's you don't have to spend, you know, it's not where you have to sit there and dedicate a whole bunch of time to it. You just have to show genuine effort, like you genuinely care about that person. And if you can do that, then we can save a lot of lives. Because when even when you're in that most critical moment within moments of an emergency situation where you're contemplating suicide, this is very powerful. And ask me how I know because I've been in that cone of despair with my hand on a pistol. And someone acting someone just showing them they genuinely care and not leaving me alone and having a conversation with me on a beach is what saved my life. Yeah, like it does, it's not something that that's it, it's not hard to do, but it takes, I think the problem here, it takes selflessness. And today, as our society as a whole, our younger generations, it's there seems to be more pattern of selfishness and not looking for other people, looking after other people.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

Well, so looking looking for validation, right, differently as where my validation actually should come down to am I showing up enough to where my family, my battle buddies, my network wants to show up for me too. And like you said, right, it doesn't have to be a smother some type of check-in or uh moments of of pity, right? Because that thing is another thing. Oh, they only check on me because they have to, or they're only checking on me because you know somebody told them to, my mom must have called them. No, how about how about if we step outside of ourselves, set our egos aside, and say, you know what? And it doesn't matter what time of day it is. James, I just to let you know, I was I was thinking about you, dude.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

Right, that's enough sometimes. Well, and the and here's here's another thing I'm seeing that I don't like the pattern, is we wait until we we think our battle buddies and our loved ones are in crisis before we start to show we care. When how hard would have it have been that if I'm going, if we live in the same town and I'm going somewhere of the weekend, I pick up the phone and said, Hey, Sean, I was just thinking about you. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go check out this wrestling event this weekend. How about you come with me? Like, camaraderie. Hey, what hey, whatever works, right? But it's it's a camaraderie piece where you it could be anything. It could be, hey, let's go to the shooting range, let's go here, where you feel like you're valued and people want you here. Yeah, because in the midst of you having these suicidal thoughts and believing that you're not good enough, that you're that it's better you're bet this the world's better off without you, that's the one positive thing that can maybe turn those thoughts around, is if you actually show them enough that they start believing it. Like you you you talk to them enough, you you stay in contact with them enough, you give them those positive values, they start believing it. And then that's what I really like about this model is if you get if you can get inside that person and get them to believe it, then they're probably going to turn around and pay that, pay it forward and try to help somebody else.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

Someone but see, wouldn't that be too easy in a lot of ways? Like how a lot of veterans miss like their military life. If they really kind of applied those key fundamentals to their daily life and live those aspects of it, uh they probably would like feel a lot better about themselves, too.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Oh, absolutely. Think about the thing. Okay, so we're both army, you know, army veterans. Think about these the the army values, right? So I say this all the time. I get when I look into our societies today, I'm seeing a society that even if you wore the uniform at one time and now you're a veteran and you no longer wear it. A lot of our culture today, we're not living these same army values that we swore to when we you know put that raised our hand, defended this country. You know, loyalty, duty, respect, selfless service, honor, and tech, integrity, personal courage, right? If we just use some of those values, because look look at what's going on around us in the veteran community, look at all the division. There's no loyalty, there's no duty, there's no respect to anybody. It's it's just to we we've our society today has created where a system where people are fighting for the attention or fighting for the clout instead of standing by their veteran brothers and sisters.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

You know, for those watching that might not know um the the army's core values, right? The army values are are built around the acronym of leadership. So if you say if you take leadership and break it down, that's where you get the loyalty, duty, respect, yes, helpless service, you know, and and go on and honor and just keep going. Why should we stop doing that and live in that way just because we got out of the military?

SPEAKER_00 31:54

We shouldn't. That's those are core values we could all live by, and if we did, we would make our community so much better. And the last one is huge here. We're talking about personal courage. If if I'm struggling mentally, personal courage can be a big motivation for me. If I believe in myself, if I know that I am needed, I am wanted here, I'm valuable, I hold a purpose, then that personal courage can turn into helping somebody else. Because I think that's how all of us got into this. Is our stories didn't start with us just jumping in and saying, hey, I'm helping people. It started with our personal struggles first. Like our stories began with our personal struggles. My story began with wanting to take my life on a beach in Tennessee and failing twice and failing miserably while I was deployed by putting myself in harm's way with self-endangering behaviors, hoping they would yeah, putting putting myself behind a 50 cal every night in and night out in the middle of the streets of Baghdad, hoping somebody would kill me. So that's what's important too, is we understand we came, we had we came from somewhere that where we had to deal with this first. There's adversity here that we all had to deal with to get to the point where we are where we are running organizations, or we are hosting podcasts, or we are out here advocating for our communities. We're doing it because we know the personal pain and what those emotions feel like.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

And and the unfortunate part and the unfortunate truth of about really why you really the the reason why you do what you do in honoring um those service members.

SPEAKER_00 33:53

Well, yeah, because it I could have been one. I mean, I I was 25 seconds from from myself being one of these warriors that that somebody remembers through you know battle vest dedications, or I don't know if it had been a battle vest, because from what I've heard, we were the first ones to do that. But and I kind of take pride in the fact that we created something exclusive to honor our warriors that a lot, not a lot of people were doing. And and so I'm excited in the fact that we are able to now offer that that peace and that respect to other families. You know, a mother that's lost a child, a spouse that's lost a partner, you know, a any relationship, no matter what it is, our program's gonna honor these warriors lost to suicide. And and a lot of and a lot of people don't know this about us, but we have a few warriors where we lost those warriors in suicidal acts. So loved ones that were taken from us where they were taken, and then that person took their life in a suicidal act. So if it revolves around mental health and it revolves around losing a warrior to suicide, that's what we developed our battle vest program for. It's something you don't it's something you don't see all the time. It gives a dip a different meaning to the veterans who actually wore a battle vest of whatever you wore. It's a resemblance, right? It may not be the same one. You know, you could have your gear could have been a little different, but we are we all wore something similar in nature while we served. And the concept is is is the same. It's more personal. It's more personal when it when it's a battle vest that that you that you all you may have worn or and what these battle vests do for these families is remarkable. I didn't realize the impact that we were having within our families until the families saw these battle vests and they're at the ceremonies and they're they're taking pictures with the battle vest. Because these families, they it's they want someone to recognize that their warrior service and sacrifice, but most importantly, they want somebody to recognize that they they're suffering, that they're harboring pain that people can't see. And somebody needs to start and somebody needs to think of them.

SPEAKER_01 36:28

Yep. So to date, I mean, you know, let's talk about a little bit about the battle vests that's behind you right now. Um, you know, to date, how many battle vests have you actually presented to date?

SPEAKER_00 36:40

We are building number 10. Uh, we have dedicated nine so far. The one behind me is 22-07, our partners over at VFW Post 660 in Savannah. Have they lost a comrade last year, uh uh David Bussing, United States Marine Corps. And so they wanted to do a memorial for him. So this battle vest will be named after him, but it clearly honors 19 other warriors that lost their battle to PTSD. And so, yeah, we've 10 battle vests, seven memorial boards, and 170 warriors and their families have been honored in our programs to the date. Over multiple states. Multiple states. We've nationwide, yes. Yeah, we have battle, we have battle vest in Oklahoma, we have battle vest in Missouri, we have battle vest in Texas, we have battle vest in Florida. Nationally, we we have we have started producing Memorial Battle Vest across the United States, and that doesn't change because once we dedicate 2207, the plans are to go to Austin, Texas and do 22-10. So the the plans don't change. We're just gonna keep pushing. But that's our battle vest program, too, is is is on we we named our our memorial board programs after D'Angelo Shaw, and we haven't really talked about him enough. And I I really want to because that it's gonna be hard because I don't want to tear up on here. But that was my brother that was who helped me co-found this organization and believed in me when this was all just a concept. When we didn't know that we were gonna be in five different states, we didn't know we were gonna have 10 battle vests, we didn't know we were gonna have mothers and families looking up to us to honor their warriors. We had no idea, but we believed in each other enough to start it. And unfortunately, he was taken from us and murdered in cold blood last year, and unfortunately, you know, we did lose him. But all our programs are now honor renamed after him, the D'Angelo Shaw Memorial Board programs. But yeah, the the battle vest have taken off, and it's a it's a cool story because we put one on TikTok, and we put one battle vest on TikTok, and then that's how we met. Yeah, it created nine other battle vests. It spawned, yeah. It spawned nine other battle vests from one effort from one from one vest on TikTok.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

Yeah, the one thing that I kind of like, you know, what's the one connection between that and a lot of what we're talking about, right? And and it comes down to the word battle, right? So battle vests. That's why it's so important to have a battle buddy. You know, um, it's why it's important to be willing to engage in the fight against drone demons uh and not be afraid or to feel judged to reach out. There's a lot of resources, um, not only from the you know, from like the VA side, but there's a lot of resources if um if you just do a little bit of uh digging yourself or connecting with other organizations that do the digging for you to kind of help provide those, you know, the VFW, the American Legion, MBAS, you know, those are all organizations that are geared around the veteran, as well as the auxiliares, so that their family members can can get involved and engage. Um, and they start to understand the camaraderie because their organization is part of it, but they're still separate, they operate independently, you know, and they start forming relationships.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

And the key to really having a successful battle buddy often comes down to just being willing to just put yourself out there to one person, one person is all you need to do, like and if but if if can you think of the impact we would have if every veteran found one person and believed in that person and checked on that person and called that person and hung out with that person, like I I remember and like I still the fishing trips, what Nautical Salute does, like putting veterans on water, that's it's magical. So if everybody, if if if one veteran, each veteran we know listening, and those not listening would make one battle buddy and just constantly check on them, and we just paid that forward, the generations of people we can make an impact with.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

Yeah, is it they might not they they might want to then reach out to that that battle buddy and say, hey, you know what? I'm gonna take a chance. I'm gonna be vulnerable. I'm I'm not gonna go gamble today. I'm not gonna put this bottle. Or what the fishing.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

Or or what about yeah, what about that? Hey, I'm I'm you know, I'm having these thoughts to I'm having the the compare. I want to I'm having the thoughts to go gambling. Hey, will you go you want to go fishing? Or you want to go, will you go do something with me so I can get my mind off of gambling or substances so I can do something constructive? Like these are things that all they they spawn from that from that one person finding your battle buddy, staying connected with your battle buddy. And and you can make more in a multiple battle buddies, you know, but it starts with one. It we have to we simplify it down to one person. So if you're a veteran listening to this and you're struggling, find your battle buddy, find that one battle buddy that's always been there for you, whether it be through your service, whether it be however you know them, community, yeah, however, pick up the phone.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

You know, I I actually saw a meme today, and it was, I believe it was on Facebook, and it said, veterans don't wear veterans' hats for civilians. No, veterans wear veterans' hats to find other veterans. Correct.

SPEAKER_00 43:06

Yeah, and I I wear mine. Not that like my hat looks all faded and dirty, but when I wear this out, it's it is exactly it's not the civilians don't understand it. They'll say, Oh, thank you for your service, but it really resonates when you run into it. When I run into another Iraq OIF veteran, they're like, Oh, hey, when were you there?

SPEAKER_01 43:26

Or where were you at?

SPEAKER_00 43:27

What problem? Where were where were you at? What what comp you know what years were you there? And so you spark up a conversation. And sometimes that one conversation, maybe you may be talking to somebody who's who's had suicidal thoughts for weeks, just never told anybody. You may be you may be talking to somebody who who may be depressed as as they're talking to you, but maybe you give them a glimpse of hope because you're now you know met somebody that shares some of the same bonds and values that you have.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

You know, ironically enough, where I'm working at, I ran into somebody that's kind of like part of in charge of what of the project that we're doing. And uh she was she's married, uh, has been married, uh, she's been a career uh dependent uh and also works on a military installation and was telling me because I'm actually wearing one of one of my organizational shirts today, my hat, I've been wearing it all week. And she's like where we're at, there's not a lot of things for veterans to do and and families of veterans because it's an operational base and there's not a lot around. And we, you know, we got to talking a little bit, and she's like, we want to find something to do. And based on what you're telling me, I think it would actually be really good you know, for my husband to participate, participate in this because he likes this, but I also would love to be able to connect with other spouses who have been through some of the similar struggles that I've been through as a spouse and as a mom and a parent of children, you know, and like the hard part of what she admitted to me was you know, I in the beginning, I did not handle it probably the way I should have, because I didn't know. I didn't know what was going on or or or how I was potentially contributing to something because I was confrontational or short and you don't want to talk to me, fine, you know, I'm not gonna talk to you then. Um but it's that little bit of response, right? Of why sometimes those veterans, because of that initial engagement, they will pull away and only talk to veterans. Right. You know, so that's that's why battle bodies are key and important. Um and then finding a way to include your family in that.

SPEAKER_00 46:01

Well, and and that's that's huge. But so you talk, I think we need to I think we need to give some key hints that there may be some events for mothers or spouses that can partake in certain fish and trips where they can meet other families that are maybe that are dealing with the same grief or have or have military dependence. So we have we we definitely have some events coming down the tube for that.

SPEAKER_01 46:32

Yep, if you know, so I think we were looking at September, correct? Is what we were yeah, so yep. September's got a very significant meaning and for the month as well.

SPEAKER_00 46:44

Suicide Awareness Month, and so we got to hurry up and get that so I can mark my place on the boat. So I know that.

SPEAKER_01 46:53

Yeah, so just to let everybody know, you know, we you know, you can check out uh nauticalsalute.com and that gives a little bit about the program and and some of the opportunities in the books that we have, but you can also find us on Facebook groups uh to where we actually post the events uh related to those fishing trips or specific ones that we set out with invites.

SPEAKER_00 47:14

So yeah, and so I think talking about other events, we we are on May 16th, 2026, this year. We will be at the Veterans of Foreign Wars Post 660 in Savannah, Georgia. And we will be honoring our warriors from Battle Vest 2207. And so, you know, you know, we wanted to just touch on that because if you're in the area, that's gonna be a really powerful ceremony. We've already got eight to ten families of fallen warriors that have committed to to being present. So this is gonna be one of our largest ceremonies as far as family members present. And so just want to real quickly just go over that and maybe highlight some of the, you know, highlight the warriors that we're gonna honor on this ceremony. That way the families, we give those families that presence, you know, that that that their loved one is is is being talked about, that their their struggle, the family struggle is not forgotten, right? So we're gonna talk about Battle Vest 2207. And so in an honor remembrance, we lift up the service, sacrifice, and valor of these warriors who fought so hard and lost a battle we could not see. May their names and memories live upon Battle Vest 2207, a sacred tribute to their courage, their love of their country, and the lives that they touched. Let this vest stand as a powerful symbol of unity and refuge of grace where families can speak their warriors' names without shame, share their stories, and find understanding and support in one another. They are not forgotten, their voices echo in our hearts, and we carry them forward in everything we do. We also honor the unseen wounds carried by the families left behind, their grief, their strength, their resilience. May they feel our arms around them and know their pain is seen, and never have to walk this hard road alone. So now we're just gonna touch so the the warriors that we will be honoring on Battle Vest 2207 is Staff Sergeant Dakota Raleigh. I hope I pronounced that right. I apologize if I didn't. Uh United States Air Force, uh GM1 Matthew John Austin, United States Navy, Sergeant Cody W. Donahue, United States Army, Sergeant Eric J. Shank Aquino, United States Marine Corps, Sergeant Matthew Walden, United States Marine Corps, Sergeant Philip King Jr., United States Air Force, Corporal Daniel J. Laterella, United States Marine Corps, Corporal Jake Bryan, United States Army, Corporal Jonathan Blake Whitson, United States Marine Corps, Senior Airman Derek Martin, United States Air Force, Petty Officer Third Class, Garrett Keegan R. Garrett, United States Navy, Specialist Trey Robert Ring, United States Army, PFC Cody Corey Parker, United States Army, PFC Morgan Daly, United States Marine Corps, Private Kyle Shelby Bennett, United States Army, Albert Adrian Gagnier, United States Marine Corps, David James Bussing, United States Marine Corps, Matthew Vance Goodman, United States Air Force, and Tom Big Hoss Morton, United States Marine Corps. So May 16th, 3 p.m. If you're in or around Savannah, Georgia, come come have some camaraderie with Heroes in the Sky. Come have some camaraderie with our families that will be attending that unfortunately have lost loved loved ones that we just spoke. And come come join that veteran crowd and come find your purpose. We love to see you there.

SPEAKER_01 51:22

That's going to be a very powerful event. And you know, one of the things that will be happening uh before too long, actually, uh, we'll and maybe at that event uh will be the live uh streaming of a lot of the Battle Best dedications going forward. So that way, if you can't make it out, you can still log in and participate uh live uh because that's one of the beautiful things about StreamYard is we can bring it to you real time.

SPEAKER_00 51:51

Yep. Real time and multiple platforms. So YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, StreamYard. And yes, the goal is to live stream um not only our podcast episodes, but we haven't said anything about our mini-series we have as well. So we have a miniseries called Scars That Speak where the mission didn't end. And it's it that's exactly what it is without going too much into depth. It's it's it's those mental scars that we carry once we take that uniform off. And the where where we don't have a an on-off button because we can't, okay, the mission's done, let me cut it off. It's gonna be challenges associated with that. So that's also gonna be live streamed. So there's multiple opportunities for you to catch our programs and follow what we're doing. And so we're excited to have you join this journey with us, especially with the new live stream capability. It's gonna be exciting.

SPEAKER_01 52:54

Well, and you know, what I'm most excited about about it is we'll our next podcast will actually be on the StreamYard platform. So people will be able to tune into us live, real time, and uh and even interact and engage and potentially be brought up as uh a potential uh panel member.

SPEAKER_00 53:17

Absolutely. It'll it'll open up that up to guest families. So if you are a veteran, if you're a family member, if you're a sibling of a if anyone that's affected by post-traumatic stress, this this that's the podcast platform for you because that we are going to amplify and articulate your voice and show people that not only not only are our warriors experiencing the trauma and the unseen and the unseen scars, our family members are carrying those scars as well. So yeah, it's it's it's an exciting, it's an exciting day to to have to have Heroes in the Sky and Nautical Salute running in our communities. And I just want to say, you know, as we close out, I do want to say thank you to all the families that have trusted Heroes in the Sky to honor their warrior. That was not an easy choice. You know, we know there's stigma surrounding suicide, but you made the choice as a family member to share your warrior story and allow us to honor them in public places so people hear their names so they do not die twice. So I want to say thank you to every the 170 family members that have trusted us to honor their warriors. And I want to say thank you to those that have not honored their warriors yet that will say thank you for what you know, thank you for your support to Heroes in the Sky. Because I got an email today from a young lady who's gonna have a warrior on it, and she asked the question, Would you mind if I attended? And my response is absolutely, we're we always encourage our families to attend. This is a safe place for safe place for our families, and that's what we're trying to create.

SPEAKER_01 55:09

So if if everything in my calendar serves me correctly, our next podcast that will air for the first time on StreamYard Live will be May 7th. Uh, so I think that's what it's that's what it's looking like. And I I really look forward to you know spreading the word about it, um, and and getting as many people involved in this so that way our warriors uh don't go unforgotten and uh they find their purpose, you know, that we can find out our purpose together, um and just find some peace as well.

SPEAKER_00 55:52

Correct. Yeah. So yeah, so we're we're gonna close this out. Um outstanding episode. Thank you, Sean. Thank you, all those who are listening. And if you were listening today, we asked that you share and circulate this so we can we can continue helping and impacting other people, other family members.

SPEAKER_01 56:13

One thing I would love for you to go over real quickly, because we would not be heroes in the sky if we did not close out or at least mention the statistics um and the and the data that that you um present in real time to those families and the community, um, because they're staggering. And I I think that's something that we need to continue to uh inform people and and and present to them.

SPEAKER_00 56:39

So yeah, so we can it's we're gonna do we're gonna focus on the veteran community as as this vest, you know, we do now we're gonna clarify we honor all veterans, all first responders, and all public safety officials, nurses, ems. If you have died by suicide, we honor you. It you're we'll honor your family. It does not matter. But being that this best is themed towards our VFWs, veterans of foreign wars, and it features all veterans. Yeah, let's talk about some veteran statistics. And so we talk about you know how many times have we heard 22 a day, 22 a day? I mean, there's monikers, people are doing push-ups, and then how many t-shirt designs are are centered around 22 a day? And then the fact of the matter is it's just not correct. We're it's it's 44. And these are studies from credible universities showing that we are losing 44 to 60 veterans a day, but 44 is the one they most quantify. And you know, we you know, we can go in other take other episodes to go into why what the disparity is between the VA the VA reported numbers and what we're actually seeing from published college university studies. Well, it's it's that's an that's another conversation for another time.

SPEAKER_01 58:03

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 58:04

But but there's 44 veterans a day lost to suicide. And they tell they say that five every suicide affects a minimum of five family members and 135 community members. So when we use the veteran rate alone, 44 veterans a day, five family members, and 135 community members. Let's go ahead and guess the the number of people that are affected by veteran suicide a day. It's 29,700. And that's and that's on the low end. That's that's using 44, and which some of these cases may be underreported, but that's the minimum is 29,700 people affected every day, single day from veteran suicide. And this is from veteran suicide alone. We're not, you know, we can we can have other episodes where we just dive into the first responder rates because they're staggering as well. But the veteran rates alone are are so staggering that people don't. I don't think anybody, how many people have heard 29,700? And when you hear that number, you think, oh, that's the date, that's that's how much the rate that veteran suicide affects every day. Because we're not having these conversations, and but that's that's the real rates, that's what we're dealing with as veterans and and and loved ones of veterans, yeah. Like your spouses, but why is that stagger? Why is that important? Well, yeah, like you said, you need battle buddies now. We need we need we need levels of accountability to start lowering our suicide rates. Because I don't like, I don't know about you, but I don't like 29,700. I don't like one. I don't like that's this this is too much. We've we've entered a program, we've entered a time where you know we lose more veterans from the global war on terror, like we lose more veterans to suicide from the global war on terrorism era than we do any other conflict. Like four times as much to be exact. And there's just so many there's we lose the other thing we need to start talking about is the importance of a battle buddy and and courage and and purpose in that first 12 to 14 months once you separate. Because the 12 the it has been proven by multiple studies that the first 12 to 14 months after separation, after you take the uniform off, is your highest risk for suicide for any veteran. No matter your age, no matter your branch, no matter your service, the first 12 to 14 months are the most crucial. That's where we that's where you have to find your identity and your purpose and your motivation to start fighting post-traumatic stress to reduce your elevated risk for suicide.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:06

Absolutely. And we want to thank our sponsors.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:10

Yes, American Legion Post 135. Thank you again for your gracious support. You know, there are title sponsors this year. Absolutely amazing. They're Post 135, American Legion Post 135. They're located in downtown historic Savannah, 1108 Bull Street. They are a member of the largest veteran service organization in the nation. They were founded on the principles of service to our veterans and to our community, state, and nation. Their membership is open to any veteran who has served honorably and to active duty service members. They are home to the local 1110, Betty Bombers, Brighter Day, Centennian, and Lee Chai. And their bar is open to the public. They open, they they hold several events in their ballroom each year that are open to the public. And you can even rent their ballroom. So if you're in Savannah and are not from Savannah and you want to have a fantastic event, contact our partners over here at the American Legion. Go check that ballroom out. You'll have a fantastic event. So thank you, American Legion. Thank you, Sean Hibbard. Thank you. We're going to give credits out to this like we typically do. Jennifer Grossman, you never see her, but she's the she's the person behind all of our videos. She makes them look pretty. Publications. Keeps us straight. Keeps us straight. Thank you, Jennifer, for all your hard work. Thank you to all the families. I'm up here sounding like I just want to Oscar or something, huh? Thank you to all our families that that trust Heroes in the Sky, Nautical Salute. And we can't wait to see what event we're going to see you at next. We love each one of you. Heroes in the Sky, Nautical Salute out.