Breaking The Silence: The Aftermath of Suicide; Episode 3

The Silent Weight
On May 9, 2026, Breaking the Silence streamed live from the Nautical Salute headquarters in Florida, where James and Shawn discussed the weight of PTSD and how it affects our warriors as they navigate their daily internal struggles.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Please be advised that the following podcast contains language that may be triggering or traumatizing to some audiences. Viewer discretion is advised.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Wow, we've had a busy, busy weekend already.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

It has been busy but educational, and I'm bl we are very blessed to have I'm very blessed to have been here and witnessed this and the impact that both of our organizations have made just today.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

You know, when you work hard for the right reasons, we we've talked about this today and on the way just to get the the food for the seafood boil. You know, when it's when it's right, it it's not hard, but to be able to see the people's faces and the interactions and engagement, it's like that's what it's all about. Right. You know, it's about changing people's lives and building community, right? Even though what we're talking about, you know, breaking the silence together is one of the most devastating things that people, veterans and families uh they go through.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

You know what? I I think before we start, I think we need to uh we need to thank some people. How about that? Absolutely. So let's start off with um our our sponsors this year for the podcast, our uh American Legion Post 135 in Savannah, Georgia. So American Legion Post 135 is located in historic downtown Savannah at 1108 Bull Street. They are a member of the largest veteran service organization in the nation. They were founded on the principles of service to our veterans and to our community, state, and nation. Their membership is open to any veteran who has served honorably and to active duty service members. They are the home to the local 1110, Betty Bombers, Brighter Day, Sentiment Bean, Lee Chai, and their bar is always open to the public. They hold several events in their ballroom each year. That ballroom is often guess what, Sean? You can rent the ballroom. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

I like we did that today. Yeah. At an American Legion that I'm a post service off. We did, we did, we did. Yeah, and talk about a great space.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Right. We had a stage. Yes. So check out if you're in you're in the Savannah, Georgia area, go check out our friends at the American Legion Post 135.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

And and be sure to tell them that James sent you.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Correct. Heroes in the Sky sent you. Thank them. You know, thank you. Thank them for everything that they've allowed us to do this year. And they're our title sponsor. So, Sean, episode three, the silent wait. How did we get here? Can you believe it?

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Well, it's our third episode, but it's really our first one on StreamYard. Yes, yes, yes. And I tell you, we're we're we're working out the kinks. So thanks for everybody watching who uh being patient. And uh just you know, we're excited to see where this journey takes us here with you guys. Uh hopefully we're able to reach more veterans, uh, more families, more first responders and their families, as well as police. I mean, guys, today, like we're gonna get into it much later. Um, but why don't you tell them about what the episode is?

SPEAKER_00 3:48

All right. So I'm about to make this screen a little bigger, so y'all give us right now, you know, and and when you know, we will have commercial breaks where the screen may we may go a little smaller, but just just understand that's just a commercial break. So yeah, so today was our well, the biggest thing today was the back the blue, back back the blue and red walk. The seventh annual seventh annual today.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Yep, and look in in Tavares, Florida, at Wooten Park. Uh, one of our board members at Nautical Salute, uh, Shannon Cook, she she's been putting this on, and uh she's had some amazing sponsors in you know in the previous years, but uh this is the first year she's really had uh organizational supporting and backing as far as as part of helping uh put it all together.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Yeah, and it was a great event. Yeah, police chiefs, fire captains, uh administrators. 18 different agencies were were represented today in person. And then um myself and our friend from Combat Kitchen, Rich, was the one holding the guide on or the the banner in the front. Yeah, you know, and that's that was a that was an awesome, humbling experience for us to lead that that walk.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

Yeah, and you know, and you know, the special guest, you know, with with DJ and as as Father Athetus, yeah, a Navy veteran, yes, uh, you know, served on the the famous USS Kitty Hawk. Correct. Um, I tell you, what an amazing family. What an amazing family. And just to see the community come together to honor them and and swear them in and just well, the positivity and and and the faith base too.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Yeah, like in the face of all the adversity that that family has gone through, yeah, with medical diagnosis and and and um challenges against them that that's passing all odds. Correct. And but they're still a very positive family, and so we want to, you know, if if you're if they're listening or you know them, we want to thank DJ and his father for just being so supportive and and and just want help wanting to help other people, loving the community, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Our other friends, uh Lance and Ty from SFH, man, thank you guys so much for coming down and supporting uh your guys' platform is is awesome, and it allows you know so many people to be connected through the cause of SFH. Yeah, um, and just for you guys to know what what SFH wear, uh what it stands for, is it's it's still effing here. Um so and it's not just for military. Uh when I originally you know heard about it, I thought it was a military thing, but it's not. It's similar to your mission where it's military, first responders, police, anybody that is willing and wanting to just put up another fight to be here and say, Correct, man. I'm glad I made that decision.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Yeah, and and for me today was was really special because a lot of times we we our ceremonies are based on a lot of populations, but today I was able to hone in and focus on some of the just the first responder and public safety officials, and that was really awesome because we got you know we got to educate the crowd on some important stuff. Like, and so how many people of us know that this this is a really a statistic that really hits home for me. Most firefighters in their career, most firefighters, I say most, will experience at least one suicidal call. There are some firefighters that report at least a minimum of 12 reported suicidal calls in their career? In their career, and maybe sometimes more than 12. Can you imagine the mental weight that carries on that professional?

SPEAKER_01 7:36

Especially if they're successful. Yeah. You know, it's the it's just, you know, everybody wants to be that hero in that aspect of you know, being up and save somebody, but but what does that toll do to that first responder, even when they do survive, of not knowing, right? I mean, and that kind of gets us into today's conversation, really, about um it hits home, you know, especially for the veterans and the first responders, because we had the back to blue and the red walk, followed by a seafood boil fundraiser at the American Legion post 219. And the shout out to to my home post as well as Ambet's Post 2006, who showed up to a seafood boil. And guess what? We ran out of food.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Yes, we ran out of food. Awesome experience. We met a lot of cool people. We got to talk in in front of a lot more families.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

And one of the most one of the bet one of the things that I enjoy most about traveling and education is the people and the feedback. Because even at the event with the walk today, I had two or three people come up to me and tell me specifically that some of the things I was describing was how they felt. And how how did you know that was how did you know that was me?

SPEAKER_01 8:54

I saw you talking to a young man, I guess, I believe he served in the Navy, you said. Yes. And he served in the Navy. Yep. You know, one of the things that's actually exciting for me is I the younger generation seems to be kind of inclusive of some of their loved ones. Uh, and like he was not afraid to actually talk about the issues he had going on. And and that was that was actually exciting for me, I don't know, even though it's a it's a it's a tense situation talking about PTSD and and seeing the statistics and hearing them because your stuff is pretty much bam, right in your face.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Right. And it's it's designed that way. But I was really surprised with this young man because not only did he come up and admit that he was struggling with PTSD and certain triggers and asking for advice, he wanted advice for his wife. And he brought his wife up there. Like in his and and so, hey, can you would you talk to my wife about what the what this may look like for her so she understands a little bit about what I go through? That's huge. When we start bringing our loved ones into our conversations and our struggles, that's not a sign of weakness, that's not a that's not a rift. You're building a bridge of communication with your loved one. So in the event you're you know, you built it's a stronger relationship and bond. So as you so as you we're not saying that you're not going to experience these triggers. If if you have post-traumatic stress, some of these triggers will might possibly be there for a long time. You may just have to learn to live with them.

SPEAKER_01 10:27

And it could be ebb and flow, right? It can rise, it can settle down, you can kind of compartmentalize and put it away. Yeah. Um, because you know it's P Testy. It's not it's not the same for everybody either.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

Oh no, it's not. It's for some for some people it can be the chip, you know, the typical nightmares, flashbacks, right? But before we get into that, I want to I want to say a quote. Because I think this quote's pretty powerful, and I think it describes the way a lot of people are feeling inside their their mental their mental health, right? So I cry where no one can see me, not because I don't trust people, but because I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable with my pain. I've learned how to hold my breath while breaking, how to keep everything together until I'm finally alone. My tears don't make noise, but the pain inside me echoes loudly. I wipe my face quickly, fix my smile carefully, and step back into the world like nothing happened. No one sees the effort it takes to look okay day after day after a falling apart in silence. This has become my quiet habit, surviving without asking, hurting without explaining, and healing without being noticed. I don't cry for attention, I cry because sometimes silence is the only place my pain feels allowed to exist. How heavy is that?

SPEAKER_01 11:56

That I mean that hits me in my feels. That right there explains a lot of what I even carry. It's like that quote was pulled from right out from in my brain.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

It's it's and when you read it, you really feel the emotions.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Yeah. How many people, you know, watching this or who will watch this at some point, you know, how many of you can resonate with that? Like just sometimes just when quotes like that come out, you know, just close your eyes and just listen and think and connect and feel. Um, because I I mean, you said it today. People, when they reach out, they don't need you necessarily to say the right thing or anything at all. It's just they want you to listen and not judge. Correct. And that's like just yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

And sometimes, you know, you don't have to have the answer, right? There it's it's it's the the point here is what we're trying to make is if you know somebody's struggling. Sorry, Aster. Aster came to visit. Yeah, you don't have to have the answer. You you basically just have to have the compassion and sympathy to listen to that person and try to understand where they are. Yeah, that's that's it's that it's sometimes as simple as just showing up, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

I mean, this is exactly what the hidden hidden pain for first responders, veterans, right? We've talked to so many people in in these lines and professions. You know, one of the one of the couples who actually I connected with on Facebook uh today from the event this morning, an army veteran and his wife uh who went through the police academy as well. Uh she was just literally saying, like, wow, like we just moved here not too long ago within the last two years. We have we know some of these people because we've been involved in the walk before, but we don't really have our people. Right. And you know, it's it's it's actually sad, but that's the same reason when I moved here, we did it before we retired. Right. So we could find uh who we were meant to be around and and build our community. And you know, the expression, you know, have veterans helping veterans, right? Well, even at Nautical Salute, it's it's more about serving veterans and building community. You know, community is camaraderie, right? But community shows up in times of need too.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Absolutely. So, and with PTSD, it's not a weakness. No, no, it's a reach out, it's not weakness. No, it's it's a strength that you're you're acknowledging the fact that you're having issues, just like that young man today had the courage to come up and talk to a random stranger, he didn't know me, but he wanted to come up and admit that he was struggling, this is what I'm struggling with, and that's not a weakness. You're exactly right. That that's courage. If anything, that's courage and strength. You're acknowledging that that you're having issues and you're gonna get help, or you want help, or you're asking for advice.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

Well, in your battle vest, where I was the point I was getting to earlier was when I talked to that young man and his wife today, it was like these are all police officers on this vessel. Like you're honoring, like it's not something that is done.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Well, and and and police is the police policing corrections is a different animal, yeah. And this is why. Because to to be, you know, when you start with policing corrections, the the the odds are already against them with their elevated risk for suicide. You know, we lose a law enforcement officer every 17 hours of suicide. Suicide has has been shown to be the fifth leading cause of death for retired law enforcement officers. But that's not the problem. Yet that is a problem. That's a that's a it's an it's a significant issue that our law enforcement officers face. The problem is when you lose that officer to suicide, you know their departments rarely give them a full moon uh honor burial. I think oftentimes they don't. They don't. It's rare. And even in the National Monument in DC, you know that they don't ex they don't recognize them, the ones lost to suicide on the on the National Monument in DC.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Well, would you would you consider it at this point? I wouldn't consider it an epidemic anymore.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

It's a plague. Absolutely. I call it a plague.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

It's gotta be.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Yeah, there's an epidemic. There's little steps that you're trying to solve it, or there's we have not gotten anywhere with with with with suicide and how it ripples through communities. Here's something I want to use the veteran rate. Because I and I encourage you, if you're watching this and you're in our comments, pull out your calculator. And and then by the way, if you type a comment into us, you know, we apologize. We got our full screen up, so we can't really see the comments right now. But we want you to know we will absolutely, when this is over, we will go back and read those comments, see what you said, and we want your interaction.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

And hopefully, also with you know, people that we have watching too who are also close and connected to to what we do, who might know the answers. Uh, we encourage you also to uh to connect in the in the comments. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

And here's here's the thing: you share those comments, and we might see that comment, and you might just get an invite to come be one of a guest on our podcast. Exactly. We might be that inner intrigued in what you said, and we might just ask you to come say a few words with us. Yeah. So here's what I want. Here's Sean. I'm a numbers guy, but I want just it's some of it's basic math, some of it's not. So per reports, we lose 44 veterans a day to suicide. Now, they say that a minimum of five family members is going to be affected by that service member's death by suicide. So then, with that five family members, they also say there's a minimum of 135 community members, whether that be your battle buddy, your best friend, your brother, your whatever that relationship is to you, right? Teachers, teachers, mentors, 135 people in your community are going to feel the that pain when you die by suicide. So we need to do the math here and just show how how big of a number this is if you're if you're listening, or so 44 times 5 times 135. Does anyone want to take a guess of what that number is? It is 29,700 people. Now we're not talking about a month, we're not talking about a year. That is a day. 29,700 people a day are affected by veteran suicide. That's just veteran suicide. Yeah. We haven't done the numbers for first responders or corrections or nurses, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:11

It's a shame that you even have to spend time on that to kind of figure out those demographics and those numbers.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

Right. And what I want to do here too, I want to go one more over and we want to put paint a picture of what this really looks like, right? So if we lose 29,700 people, 29,000 are affected every day. If 29,700 people are affected every day by veteran suicide, what does that number look for a year? You know it's 10,840,500.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

And in the United States, there's roughly 350 million.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

10 million people are affected in a year by veteran suicide.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

That's that's it.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

That's insane to me. That's a lot of people that we haven't that's just veterans. That's veterans. We haven't talked about any of the other populations. That we haven't put more time and energy into programs like you and I were talking about. Right? When how they they they train us when we we join the service, whatever you do, they train you to do your job mentally, physically, whatever, like to do to perform. But when it's time for you to take that uniform off, Sean, what do they do? What are they giving?

SPEAKER_01 20:32

You're you're discharged, and you you may have gotten set up with uh a resume. Right. Uh you may have you know learned how to file for your initial claims for disability. Right. May. But may is a strong word. That depends on the base, it depends on the command and how how how mission focused they are versus your new mission to become. Um you know, we spend a lot of time building soldiers and service members up to mold them to what we need them to be on the battlefield. Whether it's a support role, a direct action role, um, whether it's you know combat related, non-combat related, logistics, supply, human resources. Yeah, I think it's like 248 jobs or something like that in the United States Army that that someone can do that that makes the world from water treatment. I mean, there's so many things, but you know what?

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Everybody gets the same out processing. Well, that's just the Army. Think about your other branches. We were just talking about a family today that that was here and it's a Navy veteran. We actually talked to two Navy veterans today. Yep. And they got they they didn't get anything. No.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Just as quick as they could get them out the door. Yeah, absolutely. Three days. Three days, yeah. They as quick as possible. Most of that was probably. CIF clearing.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

Yeah. Clothing in this central issue facility. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

Yeah.

unknown 22:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

But yeah, even with that though, you know, you've got a a minimum of eight to nine weeks at a minimum for basic training. Minimum. Right. Oftentimes it's 12 to 13. Then you got your AIT or your job school, your MOS. Then maybe some more specialty schools. Just to go to like an airborne, you know, you've got. So now I'm sitting there thinking, it's like, wow, they've some schools are over a year long. You've had to learn how to be a service member for over a year. And then your unit still learning how to be a private in that unit.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Experience.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

You're gone.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Yeah, they discharge you, and you're expected to know how to file tax returns, know how to, you know, that it it sounds, it's it sounds simple, but what the military did for most people, it gave you the basic blueprint, what uniform to be in, where to be, what your job was, what your expectations were, and they gave that to you up front so you knew.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

But knowing what you know now, would you change it? Or would you do it all over again?

SPEAKER_00 23:25

Oh, I like the structure. The structure with for me was what a lot of times kept me on pace with where I needed to be, you know, picking up the rank the way I did, you know, just experienced the the military the way I did. Right. This so extreme structure sometimes can be beneficial.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

This is where coming like I know we're kind of a little bit off topic right now, but at the same time, it does play back into it because leadership in in all aspects is the key to a service member's success while in and while leading. Right. That's I mean, that's the key is do I have a leader that cares about building me up as a leader, teaching me how to be a leader so that I can replicate that? And then that can be passed on so they can replicate that. And on the taking care of your troops, I want to set my troops up for the greatest amount of success. And I actually look at all the members of Nautical Salute as like my troops, but not in a and not in a way of like I'm your I'm your superior, right? Right. It's what resources can I bring to them? What what tools and applications can I can I foster into an environment that allows them to thrive and no longer survive, but learn how to live. Yeah, that's where you know it comes back into this, right? You know, when a service member you know is suffering from PTSD or first responder or police, you know, you know, they're learning how to compartmentalize. They've already done that in the military or in their training. Get through the moment so you can get home and then you're gonna be fine. Well, I'm sorry, I'm not gonna be just fine because of the tragic or traumatic things that I experienced while on shift. And guess what? Tomorrow, I gotta go right back to that the possibility of doing that all over again.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

Well, and you just said learning how to live. So learning how to live on the civilian sector is going it is gonna directly involve you dealing with triggers of post-traumatic stress. Yeah, right? And when we say post-traumatic stress, you hear the most common things you hear is oh, flashbacks, nightmares. Yes, those those are true of PTSD. Those are probably the most common symptoms of PTSD.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

It's the most talked about.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Correct. But what we don't talk about is anger, random anger that comes out of nowhere, isolation, hypervigilance, feeling just disconnected from the people that you love that you swore to protect. Anxiety and fear of loss of control. Right. And what about, you know, you're in it, you know, what about your sleep patterns? Which we don't rarely talk about those. You sleep lightly, you can't, you know, you're still in survival mode. How many of us, if you're in the comments listening, walk around checking your locks on your doors because you want to make sure your house is secure multiple times? Or I'm gonna be honest, and to be honest here, I and I open up about my my struggles because my wife was, you know, put pulled me along my journey, and if it wouldn't have been for her, I wouldn't be anywhere near what I am today. But I mean, there's been times where there's little things like simple appliances in your house can go out and can create PTSD triggers. And no one's gonna see those triggers because it's behind the confines of your home. But there's been times where our air conditioner went out and we had to put a window unit in to keep cool. But people are like, oh, well, yeah, yeah, we stayed cool, but when you put a window unit in, guess what? The window is unsecure. You have a you have an easier point of access. Correct.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

So push that in, open it up, I'm in.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

Right. And so, because of that, there were three or four nights in a row where I scared my wife very badly because I would sit and watch that window with a loaded pistol thinking somebody was coming through. This is what PTSD really looks like. Yeah it's the unseen, unspoken effects that our families deal with.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

The other thing that PTSD can also cause is, you know, with the veteran isolation or a veteran working so hard for so long during a day to avoid something. Correct. I don't want to go home because I don't want them to see how broken I feel I am, or how you know, maybe I don't feel a certain way because I because I my head space is I want to be back over in the sandbox because things seemed easier. Well, in a lot of ways they were easier, correct?

SPEAKER_00 28:21

Absolutely easier, 100%. I mean, it's it's your mission and your focus. Yeah, you know, adrenaline and focus were huge over there, but when you come home, oftentimes you're not gonna re replicate that the feeling of adrenaline. Nope. And so and you're so you kind of lose focus.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

You know, the the other thing about that is when you come home, and and I want you all to listen to when I when I tell you this, just because one mission ends or changes doesn't mean that there's not another mission that's waiting for you. Correct. You just gotta be willing to open up about it and find out what that mission is and explore it. You know, some of the greatest opportunities you're gonna have is people you meet. Um, and you know, you don't have to trust everybody, but you never know who you're gonna meet. And if you're closed off and blind to the environment, or even your loved one, you may miss those opportunities and be stuck in the surviving. So just because the mission changes doesn't mean you don't have purpose.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

Right. Absolutely, and we're not gonna go too much into it, but sometimes you're like the the reason that Heroes in the Sky exist is because I failed twice at suicide attempts. Right, that's the reason this whole organization exists. And God rest his soul, D'Angelo believed in me, and unfortunately he was taken from us in an act of murder. But yeah, because I failed twice at suicide attempts, Heroes in the Sky was born. And how many other people can you say that because they failed at that self-infliction attempt, that led them to do something more powerful? Can I challenge you on something? Sure.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

Did you fail at the attempt? Or were you just done surviving and ready to live?

SPEAKER_00 30:26

I failed at the initially, it was I failed at the attempt because somebody stopped me. And then when they got me off the ledge, I started realizing that I had to do better, that there was something else out there. But it took that person being persistent, getting me off the ledge for me to be able to see that.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

Yeah, you know, I that's what that's what I just know because of who I surround myself with and who I've allowed myself to receive their love and their support. I know that's why I'm in a place today where I'm not hyper-vigilant about certain things. Things don't certain things, most things don't bother me. I still have my days, right? I still have my bad days. I in the moments where you know I'm irrational or manically creative or just withdrawn, but they're so much shorter and they don't last near as long. And I'm I'm more able to pull myself out because I recognize those patterns and we're honest about it.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

And you're you're controlling your exposure.

SPEAKER_03 31:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

You know, you're you're not you're not you're admitting there's still the pro that they're still there. Yeah, you're just controlling how they control you.

SPEAKER_03 31:41

Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

Right? So I want to ask you a question.

SPEAKER_03 31:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

I would like the culture of silence. What what do you when I say that, what does that bring to your mind?

SPEAKER_01 31:51

I mean, the culture of silence is is really just about shutting down the outside world and saying I'm I'm okay, I'm I'm fine, I'm strong enough to just keep on moving and and not really share with anybody else the burden of what I feel. Right. And you know, it's it's it's really hiding.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

Yeah. I agree with that. Uh it's hiding. I could I agree with that. Yeah, and so we we look at that, and I want to highlight the people that those people that you're always around, you talk about hiding, right? Yeah, those people that that they always look like they're okay. They joke around all the time, they're the funniest person in the room. And then what you probably don't realize with those people, they're the most outgoing public person in public. Yeah, but when they go home behind four walls, they sit in silence, isolation, and darkness. They're alone, even though they seem like the happiest person. Like, how many of if you're watching this know that your grief and your pain do not define you, and and you are strong enough. And if you're one of those that sits in, if you cry in the darkness, we're talking, we're talking with you. There, there's hope for you, there's strength for you. You're not alone in these battles where you have to go home and cry alone. Yeah, you're not.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Yeah, we're in the on the way to get the food today. We we literally talked about that specifically with some of the songs, you know, for the the mini-series and breaking the silence together, right? If the if the biggest thing we can get you to take from all of this is you're not alone, you don't have to do it by yourself. And when you're ready, take that leap and and be willing to be vulnerable, you know, because there are people that actually care about you, your family cares about you, and you know, we we don't want you to become another statistic that we're reading about or finding out about on social media or or from an event where you know you plan to come and no one's no one's seen you, heard from you. Right. That's why battle buddies are extremely important, you know.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

Yeah, let's talk about battle buddies and let's talk about what what how what are those risks for suicide when you start you know distancing yourself, isolation, detachment. What does some of that look like?

SPEAKER_01 34:35

I mean, it is it is the epitome of everything that we're talking about, you know, the that you know the suicidal risk, you know, grows from the loudest quiet. People start pulling away. You know, there are signs. We don't always like you know cue in on is this gonna lead to that?

SPEAKER_00 34:56

Right. Um, but it's what are those common signs? If they're if you're if we have somebody listening to us right now, what are what are some things that they could be looking for, or maybe a family member that behaviors they can look for in their loved one that that may be struggling?

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Well, it you know, oftentimes it's it's sudden changes and and and behaviors, right? Um, you know, you have the typical things where like if if people start giving things away and stuff like, you know, how many military you know briefings and PowerPoints that we had to go through and sit in. It's like, you know, people start, they think of the obvious things, right? Of oh, they're giving their stuff away, you know, they're they're they're saying goodbyes to people, and it just seems kind of weird. Um, but really I think it's more of like reclusiveness, more secretive, because they're so serious and in pain and hurting that they really don't want that burden to be put on anybody else, whether it's a friend or a family member. So just maybe increased reckless behaviors that may put themselves in harm's way, whether it be through adrenaline chasing, riding a motorcycle 120, 130 miles an hour in the dark. Uh, it could be drinking themselves to death.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

Right.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

I mean, that's a decision that they're making through addiction, you know, at times, right? Like addiction is a sickness, it is a disease, but right they made those decisions along the way, and it just gets ramped up oftentimes.

SPEAKER_00 36:30

Right. And I'm thinking about more too, like deprivate, depression, anxiety, sleep deprivation, unregular sleep patterns, stuff like that. Anxiety, chronic stress, subs, like you just said it, substance use. Um, maybe you got a straining.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

I need to numb this this anxiety and this panic that I feel, right?

SPEAKER_00 36:55

Relationship strain. How many of us are there? What if you have related money? Correct. Yeah. That's enough.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

Money is a big driving factor in a lot of veterans' uh suicide.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

It really is. And then we you touched on this earlier, and I think this is this is really big. Loss of identity after service. As simple as that sounds, it can be detrimental to your mental health. Detrimental. And and one of the and also too, like what one of the most dangerous things that you you hear about trauma and stuff like that, is that you know, maybe you're a burden or that's what you're telling yourself, correct? Yeah, right. Yeah. So I guess if you're carrying it, we what what you know what would we like our viewers to understand? If you're carrying these silent scars, these these heavy mental thoughts, extreme isolation, what what is something we could tell people experiencing that?

SPEAKER_01 38:02

Do we have to sometimes tell them anything other than just show up and just be listening? Because how many times have we gone to get professional help? Yeah, and one of the first things they say is I'm a mandatory reporter. If you tell me something that is of concern, of hurting yourself or someone else, I have to commit you, or in Florida, it's baker actor, right? Right. Why would I want to tell you something? I may have an ideation that's just a feeling, but because you've now cut that wall off and built it up in front of me, I I don't I don't want to tell anybody anything now because you've already threatened me. When what I really wanted you to say is why do you feel that way today? Right. Why why do you not want to be here? Let's explore that, let's talk about it, let's find the root. And oftentimes just someone actually caring enough to hear that out is like at the end, you know what? You're right. I I do have people that love me. Like I am not a burden. I'm going through a very difficult time. There's things that I really can't control about this, but there are things that I can. And I want to build a plan so that I don't feel this way.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

Right. And and I'm talking about more of when we get into like those, like I talked about this earlier, and I think it hit a lot some nerves with some of our um this was one of the things that they spoke up about after the after the ceremony and said I was speaking to them. Because I mentioned if anyone here is crying in private, if you're surviving in silence, if you're pretending you're okay because you don't want to go home and worry your family, or you don't want them to feel uncomfortable about how the way you're behaving, or you know, you don't have to like continue bleeding internally just because you've learned how to do it quietly. That's it's you you should be able to speak up.

SPEAKER_01 40:12

Like, what what does are you gonna win an award? Right, are you gonna get a medal? Like because you were able to hold so much in and guide it?

SPEAKER_00 40:21

No, no, open up because in in the end, you're you are not broken beyond repair, you know. There are and you're and you're absolutely not failing because you were struggling.

SPEAKER_01 40:33

You know, there's a quote that I I I came up with uh several years ago, and I do believe in this motto is you know, it's impossible to fail if you don't quit. Correct. And people are like, oh, I failed yesterday. No, but you're trying again today. So right you didn't fail, you didn't achieve success yesterday, right? But you're still trying. Exactly. No, it's impossible to fail unless you've quit.

SPEAKER_00 41:01

Right. And then asking for help, that's you know, we look at that, that that is that should not be seen as a surrender. I honestly we should we need to build a culture today around that that needs to be people need to look at that as a sign of strength. Yeah, because recognizing you have the problem, recognizing you have the courage to open up and seeks seek additional help for it, yeah, it is huge.

SPEAKER_01 41:33

Yeah, I mean, it's don't surrender just because you feel like you're weak. Right. You don't, you don't. It's I want you to not, I want you to figure out how to no longer survive. It's gonna take a lot of time, it's gonna take a lot of effort and energy where you're gonna have to put in the work. Right. But finding a peer mentor or somebody who's been through similar shoes, because we could be in the same vehicle, be in the same accident, but we're gonna experience it totally different and we're gonna process it completely different.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

So, therefore, when we come out on the flip side, I may struggle with that and dwell on it and can't get past it and never want to ride in the car again. Yep. You may be like, okay, right, and you're back into it as if nothing ever happened. Both things are okay, but you guys gotta be willing to say, okay, how can I fix this? Right. To where I can get back in the car. Right. That's I mean, that's that's a lot easier said than done, though. It's a lot easier said than done.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

What you know, we're talking about it's okay to ask for help. Yeah, what are some situations you think maybe some signs that if you're experiencing them, it maybe I always like to think I tailor these conversations to not only the veterans who are warriors who could be struggling, but we have to highlight the families who are the true first responders. Yep. So some of the you know, some of those that we we should tell our families, you know, that like help doesn't always begin with the dramatic moment, but what should it look like?

SPEAKER_01 43:21

Well, a family like family, in my opinion, is just as important, if not more important, to the success of a veteran going through those struggles than just the veteran themselves, because they're the ones that have to adjust their entire life, their children's life and routines to generally kind of fit around their loved ones' new normal, right? So how do how do we how do we get them To understand that this is going to take time. It's going to take a lot of supportive uh atmosphere, but also having some boundaries, some healthy boundaries of these are things that you know we as a family can't you know allow to happen without you getting other help. Because there are times where inpatient help is necessary. Absolutely. Not everything can be done through a Zoom call or or or even a face-to-face, right? There are times where you have to have the you know like the inpatient support, um, whether it's through you know medication assistances and uh and intensive counselings or alternative methods of treatment.

SPEAKER_00 44:50

Absolutely. And so, yeah, we're we're talking about all the signs and stuff like that, but uh you have said this twice tonight, and it's really important. Battle buddy. You find a battle buddy, and and when you say battle buddy, I that doesn't mean it could be your battle buddy from the military, that could be your spouse, that could be you know a chaplain you trust, you know, peer support, yeah. Anyone that you feel comfortable talking to. So when we say you know, battle buddies all you know, we think, oh, yeah, my battle buddy from the service. Yeah, that's not always that could you a battle buddy could be anybody, it could be your pastor, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

It could be a you know, somebody that you've made a connection with somewhere else, right? A pat uh a battle buddy in layman's terms is just somebody who's not judging, right? That will allow you to grieve, process, but also have healthy boundaries put in place to where they're not enabling to. Or maybe hold you accountable. Yeah, exactly. The accountability piece of it, right? But they have to be somebody that's also living that aspect of their life too, right? Right. A battle buddy is not a one-way relationship, it's it is a relationship where both parties have to put 100% into it, right?

SPEAKER_00 46:14

Just like a marriage or any other relationship, father's, you know, kids. Right. Well, yeah, and so when we're talking about battle buddies, if you're a battle buddy to someone else, that we need to check on our our loved ones and our battle buddies, not only when we see the signs of despair, but we really need to start, you know, do checking on the quiet ones before they hit rock bottom. Or even checking on the strong ones, because the strong ones are they're putting on that that that that strong face in public, but they might be the ones crying in silence by themselves.

SPEAKER_01 46:52

They've learned how to compartmentalize it, right?

SPEAKER_00 46:54

They get because they're good at hiding it, you have no idea they're in so much mental pain.

SPEAKER_01 46:59

Call that the chameleon effect, right?

SPEAKER_00 47:00

Right.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

Like I'm great in just about any situation you throw me in. Right. You know, but ones that I don't feel like I bring any value or or get any support back from are ones that I I uh have learned that I need to avoid. I don't have to be the center of the attention, right? I don't have to, you know, but if I'm going to be involved in something, I need to know that my personal mission and vision aligns with that. And if it doesn't, it's not for me. Right. And that's okay to take care of me too. Right. You know, so when you know, someone's asking you, let's just ask you, James, like, you know, what are some things, what does help look like to you?

SPEAKER_00 47:42

Like, uh, you know, like because it's not always just dramatic, right? Right for me, so that is I look at this as okay, these are signs I need help, right? These are personal recognition signs that I need to seek assistance. Like if I'm having trouble sleeping, if if I keep replaying things over and over in my head, like getting stuck on them, correct, like a it's just like a vicious cycle. If if I'm angry all the time and for no reason, like it, you know, or I just there's more, you know, it's okay to not feel like yourself a day here or there, but if you go through like a certain pattern of time that you consecutively just do not feel like yourself, and then at that point, you kind of need you need to be the one to say, Hey, I need to talk to somebody. And when I say talk to somebody, I'm not saying, oh, go talk to a therapist. I'm saying the day, no, go pick up the phone and call that battle buddy, that person that you trust. In this case, when I ever feel that way, I've got Rich sitting next to us and I've got you. If I ever got to that point where I was just absolutely struggling and I was about to make a poor decision, I'd pick up the phone and I'll at least text you and say, Hey, brother, I am not okay. Like some, I'm off. That's what you have to you have to personally recognize this stuff if you are suffering. Don't hide these feelings, do not hide these things.

SPEAKER_01 49:11

I've gotten to the point to where, like, when that builds up within me, I literally feel like a caged animal. Yeah, and I can have the most space, it can be quiet, but I still feel so confined.

SPEAKER_00 49:24

Right.

SPEAKER_01 49:24

And that's in that's in me.

SPEAKER_00 49:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:27

And like that's where we have to also recognize as as a a veteran or first responder, uh, even a family member. What is the what is happening that's making me feel right confined, restricted, I can't breathe. I've got a fight or flight now. I'm gonna, or I'm gonna just self-destruct and create extreme havoc just so I can fix it.

SPEAKER_00 49:53

Yeah, absolutely. Creating chaos so you can fix it. That I can fix. Right. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 50:00

I mean, that's something that we really haven't touched on a whole whole lot. Yeah. And that's I think how well we thrive in chaotic situations. But guess what? We don't have to. That's surviving.

SPEAKER_00 50:14

Right. That's not living, it's not living, it's surviving. Absolutely not. We create the chaos so we can fix it because when it when everything is is clear and and running smooth, we don't be like, oh wow, like something's not right. Something everything's going like it should. Let's let's sabotage it. And you know, and I think that's I think that's a great way to lead lead on to like future episodes. Yeah. I think in the next few episodes, we need to have a good conversation about the difference between surviving with PTSD and living with PTSD. Right? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 50:53

So, you know, challenging you guys watching, uh tuning in, you know, evaluate even inside yourself whether you're actually living or if you're surviving. Because like PTSD or TBIs, sometimes they get the lines get blurred and people really don't know. And I think that would be something that I would love to hear back from you guys uh when you're when you're tuning in, is let's explore that a little bit and um and and see how we can change some of those things. Because uh one of the things and tools that I start utilizing, you know, with my friends and other battle buddies and family members that we talked about last night, there's certain movies out, and there's certain um documentaries and such that have been created to deal to explain PTSD and how absolutely different people show up and how family members react one way. And um, you know, I'm gonna shamelessly plug these two these two movies real quick. Yeah, and you know, I know Casey's uh who's been who's tuned in earlier, uh, we've all watched it, right? Because I I shared it on Facebook. But thank you for your service. That is one of the most eye-opening movies that actually goes through and even talks about veteran suicide. I mean, it it lives it out, right? Um, there's also the squad leader that comes back and you know, and their family member is annoyed and angry that they they talk to their buddies, but not them, but they're nagging or they're they're being uh hyper confrontational about it when that's not gonna make me want to talk to you.

SPEAKER_03 52:46

Right.

SPEAKER_01 52:47

Just because we're married doesn't mean I feel like I have to tell you everything that's going on with me, especially because you're I know you're gonna react this way. Or you have the one where the the spouse shows up to be what we all would dream to have. But because I'm so arrogant and egotistical in the moment, and I think I know everything, I'm gonna be destructive and try to destroy something that's really good for me, right? Because I feel like I have to manage the chaos and create it. So it goes through all that. So I I'm gonna challenge you if you can. It's on Netflix. Watch that. It's a phenomenal, phenomenal uh movie. And then there's another one that goes more of a peer-to-peer aspect, and that's mending the line. And that's a fly fishing about a couple marines, different eras. Uh, one's a GWAT and one's a Vietnam era. Um but guess what, guys? As a veteran, our struggles are are not really any different. So it's a it's a shame that we have to relearn how to how to kind of like um deal with some of these things, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:01

Okay. So I I we we've covered a good bit tonight, and absolutely, it was a little heavy, but I I enjoy heavy conversations. And I think it really it's it's just a little heavier today because of everything that we've experienced. Like we've already opened you know, we've already I've already spoken to two groups today about suicide and public events, and so we and and I wouldn't have it any other way. You know, I was excited to film this episode, but I knew with with the mental uh with the with the mental stress we had already been through today, this was going to be a little bit heavier.

SPEAKER_01 54:42

You know, I I was a little nervous about the season, a little bit, just with how late we were up last night and uh with the fish fry and waiting on uh uh folks to come in town and then getting up super early this morning to to load the vehicles and make sure that we had PCIs and PCCs of everything so it went off without a hitch. Um, and then coming back and taking a little cat nap. That was nice, but uh and getting ready for the fish fry. Yeah, two hours seafood boil. So I think that two-hour nap was nice. Yeah. So, you know, I from the bottom of my heart, man, I I thank everybody for for just tuning in and and uh just just remember um you can call or text 988 uh for the veteran suicide and crisis line. Uh and if you're in immediate crisis, you know, don't hesitate. Um you know go call 911 or or get the help you need and and just be honest, you know. Uh that's that's what we care about the most. Uh, but when you when you call or text 988, it's gonna, and as a veteran, just press one to reach the veterans crisis line. And then you could also text 838-255 or chat online through Veterans Crisis Line website. There are some other organizations and stuff that do some similar things, but as a veteran, it's not weak and it's uh it just may save your life.

SPEAKER_00 56:10

So if you're if you're in that predicament where you have lost a warrior to suicide and you are navigating grief and you're that grief journey just seems a little heavy to you, know that here is in the sky foundation, we do have a family postvention and outreach panel where if you email us, we can connect you with a panel member that has lost a warrior to suicide and they will walk hand in hand, side by side with you in the darkness through the grief journey as you navigate that loss. But that is for those who are not in immediate emergency. Just like Sean just said, we're gonna reiterate if you know if your family member is in immediate harm to themselves, please dial 911. Uh get them the help that they need immediately, and then reach out for secondary help. Um, you know, we I just want to say as we close this out, you know, every veteran first responder, dispatch, police, corrections, nurse, public safety, all of you listening, or listen, if even if they're not listening, I'm I'm willing to bet, Sean, that our listeners know one of those multiple of those, right?

SPEAKER_01 57:21

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 57:22

So I this is what I want what this is what I want you to tell them. Your pain matters, your life matters, and your story does it does not end with the worst thing that you live through. Like there is we how many times tonight have we said there is strength in surviving?

SPEAKER_03 57:40

Multiple, right?

SPEAKER_00 57:41

Yeah, but there's also strength in speaking because you speak out, it doesn't mean you're weak. So if no one has told you today, we're glad that you're here. Thank you for listening. Please take care of yourself and take care of each other.

SPEAKER_01 57:57

And I think that's pretty much gonna wrap it up.

SPEAKER_00 58:00

Yeah, and so we're gonna end with the title, a close out to our sponsors. Thank you again to the American Legion. If you are in the Savannah, Georgia area, please go check out American Legion Post 135 on Bull Street. It's in historic downtown Savannah. They are a member of the largest veteran service organization in the nation. They were founded on the principles of service to our veterans and to our community, state, and nation. Their membership is open to any veteran who has served honorably and to active duty service members. They are home to the local 1110, Betty Bombers, Brighter Day, Centennial Bean, and Lee Chai, and their bar is always open to the public. So throughout the year, they hold several events in their ballroom. And here's the best part if you want to contact them about using their ballroom as a fantastic facility. Contact them. Great rates, great atmosphere. And you might even run into this guy, right? You might even see me. You might even. And if and if and if I'm not there, when you go talk to them, tell them that James Collins and Heroes in the Sky sent you. And just go go. We just can't wait for you to go learn about what the American Legion does and go talk to our friends. So thank you again for everyone. This has been an outstanding episode. Sean, thank you for hosting this entire weekend. Absolutely fantastic. Couldn't have a better brother family member. We come up to Florida now more than anywhere else. Just to come out and hang out with y'all, and that means a lot to us. And I'm just gonna close this out by saying thank you to my wife, Jess, who is always in our corner. Yeah, probably still watching this. I I love you. I thank you for everything you've done as well. And we we appreciate the support we get from our loved ones, and we couldn't do this without y'all. So um, Sean, we're gonna close this out. It's been a fantastic evening. And if y'all are listening, thank you for all your support. Like, share, follow, help us get us, help us get this out there, and we will talk to y'all later. Heroes in the sky out.