A Conversation with Women Veterans and their impact in the Armed Forces

In this episode we sit down with to special female guests t get there first hand views and experiences of their time in the armed service and how they overcame the vast equality differences in the military.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Content Warning, Mental Health and Suicide. This episode includes open discussions of mental health challenges, self-harm, and suicide. Please listen with care and pause or step away if you need to. If you are in crisis or worried about your safety, please contact your local emergency number or a trusted crisis support service. For listeners in the U.S., you can call or text nine eighty eight for the suicide and crisis lifeline.

SPEAKER_03 2:40

Welcome in, everybody.

SPEAKER_04 2:42

Hey, dude. I tell you, brother, I tell you, this is day two of us being together.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

I know, right? Day two. You follow me around?

SPEAKER_04 2:52

Hey, I see where you're doing. I see where you're at. Well, man, today we have an amazing show. We have an amazing show because you know we got some special people that are going to be introduced. But uh James, why don't you go ahead and take it away with our our uh our sponsors?

SPEAKER_03 3:09

Yeah, so you know, welcome in and everybody. We just want to say thank you to our sponsors who make everything possible. Uh Savannah, uh American Legion Post 135. They are located in the historic downtown Savannah, Georgia at 1108 Bull Street. They are a member of the largest veteran service organization in the nation. They were founded on the principles of service to our veterans and to our community, state, and nation. Their membership is open to any veteran who has served honorably and to active duty service members. They are home to the local 1110, Betty Bombers, Brighter Day, Centenniat Bean, and Lee Chai. And their bar is open to the public. So they they use that public space to hold several events in the ballroom each year. And guess what, Sean? As we always say, if you are looking to come to the Savannah, Georgia area or you need an event space, go talk to our friends over at the American Legion Post 135 because that beautiful space, you can rent it, gorgeous space downtown.

SPEAKER_04 4:10

So do you have a point of contact for that?

SPEAKER_03 4:14

Well, just so happens that one of our guests in the top, and Miss Haley Foster's is can help you there. But also, they just they just did elections too. So we I gotta figure out we got to get the new commander so we can start putting the new commander's name out there as a point of contact. But so we want to thank the American Legion, and then we also want to thank our our other sponsors. So we have Annie Montenegro from Raw's Realty. Uh Annie sells Georgia.com. If you are in the market for a home in Savannah, Annie is an absolute phenom in the real estate business, and she helped me buy my house, she's helped so many other people. Uh, go to her website, give her a call, her number's on the screen. We also want to thank Mari Bennett from um I wait till it comes up so I don't mess it up. Realty One Group Inclusion. And so Mari is special as well because not only is she a great real estate agent, realtor in this area, but she's also a part of the Homes for Heroes affiliate. So, you know, when she's successful in her business, she turns around and she turns that back and gives back to veteran organizations and the community. And Heroes in the Sky has been one of those for the last two years, and we are extremely grateful. So thank you, Mari. Yeah, thank you, Mari. Thank you, Annie. Thank you, American Legion, and let's get into it.

SPEAKER_04 5:40

Absolutely. Let's let's get into it. So tell us a little bit about like um tell us a little bit about tonight and what what we can what our guests can expect because we've got a we've got an hour-long show that's gonna be that's gonna go by fast. I mean it's gonna go by fast. We have some amazing uh female veterans that are joining us that are just continuing to crush it uh day to day. So I'll go ahead, brother.

SPEAKER_03 6:05

Well, yeah, so welcome in. And I'm gonna let I'm gonna let these fabulous young ladies introduce themselves, but we do have a special episode tonight. So our two guests tonight are not only women veterans, but they have continued to serve once they took the uniform off and in different capacities. And I got a cat trying to scratch my monitor, so y'all uh there served the nation, and they served the nation, wore the uniform, and then once they took the uniform off, their service didn't stop, and that's what's special. So we have Miss Haley Foster and we have Miss Um Susie Willis, and I'm gonna let them do a quick introduction to themselves, and then we're gonna get kind of get into some of the um you know the history of the of women veterans and their service to this nation and also some of the challenges, and and we're just gonna let them guide the conversation and see where it goes, and we're just gonna educate and reach hopefully reach a lot more women veterans. So, Miss Haley Foster, if you could give us an introduction of who you are and let's get this. Let's get her in the box.

SPEAKER_04 7:11

She's up there.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

Hi, hi. Well, thank you guys for having me here tonight. I appreciate it. Can you hear me okay?

SPEAKER_04 7:17

I can hear you, but I don't I don't see her. She's up there.

SPEAKER_03 7:23

Can you can you see her? I can see her. I see her in the bottom. I don't see her up. I don't I don't see her or Susie in the box. Hold on. Let me. I'm I am saving out. I don't know wonder if that's why. There you go. Click on that. You might have to save it.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

Hey Haley. Hi.

SPEAKER_03 7:45

There we go. So Haley, take it away.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

All right. Well, thank you again for having us here. I appreciate the invitation. Um, Haley Foster, and I served five years in the Air Force. Uh, I am the first and thus far the only woman in my family to have served in the military. I'm hoping that changes sometime down the road. Um, I have two daughters. One is not able to serve due to health reasons, but the other one is uh contemplating, she's rolling it over. And I was late to join. I didn't join right out of high school, so she's got plenty of time. Um, my other daughter, who's thinking about it, she's got plenty of time. So I just want her to, you know, do what she does, and if she decides that that's her calling, then she has all my support. Um, but I currently work for the VA. Um, I think I've got the best job in the VA because I get to work with um the patients, I get to work with nonprofits in the area and and collaborate with all sorts of people, including uh you guys and Susie. And and I it's just the most wonderful, fulfilling job I think I've ever had next to being in the military. And um it makes me very thankful that I get to I am able to continue to serve in that manner, and I get to see methods um generations every single day. And it's it's humbling and rewarding and hard and the most perfect thing I could ever think of doing. So I'm very blessed that I get to do that job.

SPEAKER_04 9:14

Well, I can tell you, uh as not all veterans enjoy going to the VA, and I could tell if as a veteran, if I got to to talk to a fellow veteran who worked there and enjoyed it, obviously as much as you do, I think that would also change my change my opinion on wanting to go there to get my my knees taken care of. So just thank thank you, thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 9:36

Susie.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

Well, thank you for inviting me. I honestly this is my first podcast, so I'm a little nervous, but um, but I'm in good company, so much more comfortable now. Um, I am a veteran of the Georgia Air National Guard, the 165th Airlift Wing, which is the best. Um, I joined right after 9-11. I joined because of 9-11 and I got out in 2010. Um, I had after talking to a lot of women veterans, I realized I actually had a better experience than most. Um but I've lived in Savannah for like 29 years, married. Um, I'm a mother to fuzzy four-legged kids, uh, a horse and a little chihuahua who thinks he's big. Um and I'm one of the founders for the Women Veterans of the Coastal Empire. Um, we are not even a year old yet as an organization, but we've been a group for about actually, I think six years today. We've been a group. So um we have 185 ladies, or as of yesterday, we have 186 ladies in our organization. And um yeah, it's very, it's very exciting. Excuse me. But um, yeah, thank you for being here. I can't wait to get started on the conversations. And as women, we have a lot to say and a lot of opinions.

SPEAKER_04 11:07

Well, I can I can tell you, I I'm really, really excited to to uh maybe on a on another time uh really dive into what you guys do uh with the coastal empire and like find out how our organizations can collaborate and do things together so we can also uh take a bunch of uh veterans, lady veterans out to go fishing and and just kind of hang out and do what we do. So I'm looking forward to that. So why don't we uh why don't we go ahead and start? Why don't we just go ahead and start off and just talk about um uh you you both got some of the questions that we're gonna kind of relate back to today, but everyday experiences, right? Uh related to gender bias, culture, uh daily challenges that you face uh as a as a woman serving in the armed forces that was originally designed uh to to just cater to to men. But you know, without you guys, it's it wouldn't be possible for us to continue to to do what we do uh as a fighting force. And it takes everybody. So that's the great thing about it. But from your all's experiences, um, did you all ever experience or or been made aware of like any of the gender bias and duties and interactions uh during time and service?

SPEAKER_02 12:24

Of course.

SPEAKER_04 12:26

Would you mind elaborating on that a little bit?

SPEAKER_02 12:29

Um uh I'll I'll go first. Um yes. So I was, you know, in logistics and air transportation at the 165th. And like I said, I absolutely enjoyed it. I called it my second dysfunctional family. Um, and a lot of the guys that I worked with majority men, I think they were out of a unit or flight of like a hundred when we started. Um, there's like five females. Um, and eventually we had a female commander who was amazing. Um, but you know, we dealt with a lot of men who were older. The younger guys were tend to be more open, but the older guys um were not as much. But um, yeah, and I there were challenges. Um part of the challenge was that they thought that we would get in the way, which was annoying. Um, and we had it really, we had to prove ourselves. You know, I felt so much more than the guys did. Um but one of the other challenges, the fact that I was at the time I wasn't married and I didn't have kids, I didn't have a family. And um, so that seemed to be even put me more down the line of last of a priority. They would, I don't know, take care of the other ones more so than myself.

SPEAKER_04 13:53

I mean that's that's understandable because because they're not you know dealing with family care plans and and then now we've got, you know, probably initially there wasn't a lot of accommodation set up initially geared towards that. Um but uh Haley, how about you?

SPEAKER_01 14:11

So I might have had a little different experience because I was in medical um and I came in with a guaranteed medical in the Air Force and I ended up in the dental field, um, which is very predominantly female. Um we had guys, certainly, but it was female heavy, and so we had a lot of camaraderie. Um and so at work, there was some of what you're talking about, um, not a lot. We came more from leadership. Um, we didn't have any female commanders. I never saw a female commander um at all uh in the five years I was active, even even throughout, so I was at um big medical centers, and so even throughout the larger medical center that we were attached to, we had female like maybe flight leaders, and we certainly had majors and colonels, but no one was a commander of a squadron, and it was certainly no one was commander of the hospital. Um they're all men, and so that's where we had the problems where from the the chiefs who were like e-9s or the commanders. Um, but as far as just like just inner interpersonal relationships with co-workers and no issues at all, it was it was very good, um, predominantly female. The guys who were there were usually pretty open, and if they weren't open, there were plenty of us girls to ladies to you know shut them down.

SPEAKER_04 15:27

And I've outnumbered, yeah, outnumbered. They were the worst multipliers.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Right, it was. And and so we had when I was a station in California, our break room was like a free-for-all, and so everyone understood if you went to the break room during lunch, it was no holds barred. And whatever you said there, if you got if you got offended, then too bad, so sad, off you go. Um, and and we it was very it was very nice, it was very relaxed. We were all buddies. In fact, uh we didn't just spend time at work together. We a lot of us spent time in our social life together, too, and men and women. It was a very good atmosphere at work. Um, like I said, the only issues I had, um I had a chief who was um very domineering, um, and so he was a problem, not just for me, but for a few other ladies um that I worked with. Um, and then off off um, not off base, but not within our community. So I I lived on base, I lived in the dorms, and there were certain issues sometimes there um that we would run into. But I like I said, uh work, my daily work, I was very fortunate then in that.

SPEAKER_04 16:31

So in those situations where you you had a senior leader uh who was of the opposite gender, like who may have felt uh a way to kind of just push their rank around a little bit, let's just call it what it is, right? Um maybe try to assert dominance. What were some things that you both may have done or experienced that you know gave you all you know a confidence or was there the ability to have a confidence to bring up challenges and leadership challenges uh since there were a lot of other uh female officers enlisted in those positions of authority.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Right. Uh Susan, you want to go first or um sure.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

Well, I'll tell you this when I was with my unit, I was protected. I was the sister, I was I was protected. Um, so that was that was nice. When I was not with them, then it was more of a a challenge. Um and you had to do you had to handle yourself in the most appropriate, you know, way, military bearing, you know. But the plus side, I guess for me is that I joined in my late 20s compared to being a young person. Um so I didn't really have a whole lot of qualms standing up for myself, or if somebody was speaking to me a certain way or treating me a certain way, um, you know, I stood my ground and or I went too, you know, up the chain of command of how to deal with the situation. Um, or I, you know, I always, I guess I always felt like I had some level of some, you know, somebody I can trust to say, you know, this guy over here is just it's too much. Um so I mean that and I kind of feel guilty that I had that opportunity because a lot of women did not have that heard some horror stories. But um, but I think the the plus side with me is that I was older and um you know I was able to stand up for myself and and be more aware of staying away from situations that were questionable. Um so unfortunately, you know, I didn't, I guess fortunately, I really didn't have that kind of problem. Um, but Haley, you know, I don't know, I don't know about you.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

Yeah. Um yeah, I've thought a lot about this over the years and wondering um because I was 21 when I joined, which um was old in basic training because I had we had a girl in basic training who just turned 17. And so I was one of the oldest ones in my basic training flight. Um so I felt old, but you know, in hindsight, of course, it's not old at all.

SPEAKER_04 19:24

But um uh I did they call you grandma? No, just kidding.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

They didn't, but I was definitely um there was a lot of people that are coming to me, what do you think about this? What do you think about that? And I'm like, I don't know. We're all in this boat trying to figure this out, you know, together. But um, and but I also grew up very sheltered. Um, and so that's something I've thought about a lot too, is I I grew up very sheltered, rural Wisconsin, very rural Wisconsin. Um, no one, no women in my family had ever served. I had no support at all. Um, it was very much a um just like a down deep desire I had that I finally when I was 21, it's I decided I've got to do this now or I'm never gonna do it. And so I just I did it. And um my folks just kind of like, all right, well, I guess you're signing up. Um and they they went along with me.

SPEAKER_04 20:14

But when you but while you were serving, um did you feel like you had other than those couple instances that you could voice or several of you could through your chain of command voice concerns and that they would be taken seriously, or would they be brushed off?

SPEAKER_01 20:30

So yes, um, I thought I could. So the couple times that I had instances with leadership, um, and I will say none, nothing was like profoundly serious. It was just, it was like when it happened, I was like, that doesn't feel right. I don't think that's right. Um, but I also didn't have enough life experience either, um, personal life experience again, because I had grown up very sheltered. Uh, and so it was more of a uh I worked with group ladies who I was good friends with, and so I'd say, hey, this happened. What do you think? And they were more like, oh, that's not right. And so then they would kind of be my champion. And then that would, yeah. So it sort of stole all from that. Um, and so at work, I did have a lot of support because I had friends who I can say, okay, you know, what do you think? Is this okay? Is that okay? Um, but when I talk about having grown up sheltered, uh um, and again, this is something I've thought about a lot, and it's a whole other topic, but um, I was raised to you don't put yourself in a bad situation. And so as a woman, you have to take ownership of the bad situation you get put into, regardless of what the other person's behavior is. And so there is always a conflict inside of me, and still to this day is because I was taught you don't put yourself in a bad situation. Because if you get in a bad situation, well, whose fault is that? I put myself in a bad situation.

SPEAKER_04 21:50

Yeah, and and I'm sure that there's a going through training is such that there's like from our side of being the male, I I went through an all male infantry basic and In AIT, infantry, and sniper school, things like this, where I I didn't ever train or was never around females until I was on deployment. But uh yeah, I could I could only imagine like in the army we have battle buddies, right? And I don't know what the Air Force calls them if they if they call them battle buddies, but uh how would how would they would you all naturally just group up or did they act the Air Force actually have a a process that they wanted you to pair up?

SPEAKER_02 22:30

Not when I was in I don't know what yeah, I paired up with the the other older person.

SPEAKER_09 22:38

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

Yeah, I mean I was a person close to my age, and I paired up with that, right?

SPEAKER_01 22:43

Yeah, we made friends. Yeah, you made friends, and so um outside of work, I mean we were all we were all friends, but but um outside of work I hung out with um other ladies I worked with who were also single, lived in the dorms, and so we would pair up and we spent time together, and that's how that they were our battle buddies, but we never had assigned battle buddies. That that was not a thing, at least back then. I can't speak for now. Um and we would watch out for each other and and thank God for yeah, because there were certainly times when things could get very gnarly, um whether it would be on base or off base, but it was unfortunately the issues I always had, or not always, it makes it sound like it happened a lot, but the issues I had were always with active duty members, regardless of whether it was on base or off base. It was always an active duty person, which is really unfortunate. But but that was also my world too. Um even when we went off base, we went to places that the active duty frequently went to. And so I felt this false sense of security thinking, well, they're they're active, they're Air Force, they're gonna be they're fine. And no, not necessarily, but um, but you keep a community around you um that will you look out for each other, very much so.

SPEAKER_04 23:59

James, I'm gonna pass the mic over to you to uh kind of explore some more of this. So yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 24:05

And I just uh we got comments over here that I wanted to catch while we got too far in. We got um Myra over here, uh Army veteran, said I hated being seen as the gopher. Go for this, go for that. Did did any of you ever experience a similar exp something like that where you were seen as the gopher? Or was it was that ever an issue?

SPEAKER_02 24:30

Um well one, I like I said, I was older and so um, you know, I was much more, I guess, secure and comfortable, and I was not good with the military bearing all the time. So I would voice my opinion on what you know, doing stuff. But there was a lot of times I'm like, I enjoyed doing things because it was something I'm like, I've never done that before. What is that? Sure, I'll go do that just because it was just maybe something different, but um I don't remember anything really I thought was um degrading that they had me do. I mean, we they had terrible jokes, you know, like chalking my tires of my car. But um, you know, I don't they didn't have that's kind of funny.

SPEAKER_04 25:18

Actually, I'm not gonna lie. That's actually kind of funny. Chalking your tires.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

You had a great time, yeah. Oh, I know. Well, I I well I got stories. But I mean I they've never had me do anything that I thought was degrading. You know, we had you know the jokes. There was jokes, but there was nothing awful. I mean, because I was, I guess, taller and you know, I voiced my opinion a lot, not. I guess they were afraid that I would retaliate in some way. But if you were a petite female, that's a different story. One of the girls got um they used that big sand saran wrap, lifted her up and sarand wrapped her to one of the pillars, and then we all went to lunch.

SPEAKER_04 25:58

Okay, so that was a daily occurrence in the infantry. That was a daily occurrence, duct taping people to their cots, standing them up outside of town. Yeah, that was daily occurrences.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

Yeah, see, that I'll say this. When I first joined, because I have I have a younger brother, and I didn't realize how great my brother was until I joined the military and had all these other brothers, and I'm like, God, my brother Doug was awful because they were terrible. And I initially I would go crying in the bathroom because I'm like, like, what the hell? They're treating me like crap and they're calling me names and stuff. And um, I was informed by one of my leadership, they're like, they do that because they like you. I'm like, oh so being called a heifer is all right.

SPEAKER_04 26:47

It's not like I'm sorry I'm laughing about that, but like I can only like like see, uh, hopefully they ended up being awesome people that you worked with.

SPEAKER_02 26:57

So yeah, well, I had to ask them what a heifer was. I'm like, what are you? Are you saying I'm fat? You know, they're like, no, you're an unbred cow. I'm like, that's better, okay. Whatever. It could be worse. It could be worse. I had no children, wasn't married, so I'm a heifer. Like, okay. Bunch of red next.

SPEAKER_03 27:22

Yeah, like laughing at it. At least she's laughing about it. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

Once I kind of realized that okay, I I see how the game is here. Like I said, my brother was great. These guys were just relentless, but then this is part of the game. And then after a while, I was involved in some little, you know, little things, but no.

SPEAKER_04 27:43

You know, it takes you back to like when you're in elementary school, and when they're when the boys mean to you, it's because they are the because they like you. You know, it's similar in that context, probably, where you know, if you if you razz with people, I tell people if I'm not picking on you, that means I don't I don't like you. Correct. And that's a fact. But we got a few other comments before we get we get to Haley about this, but you know, uh we've got Marty, she's in there. The foulest. Uh I had I had the roulette mouth in the platoon. I think that me might have been the rudest, uh, possibly the company. We've got people, uh foulist. There we go. I was like, the roulette. I mean, that's like what you never know what you're gonna get. Uh we've got uh Cynthia Cruz, who's a battle buddy that I served with. Uh she said she had to learn regulate uh the regulations, every single section of them to be able to defend myself in tough situations. So utilizing the resources that were actually your playbook, right? To say uh per army regulation, da-da-da-da-da. This is the way this is supposed to be. You can't do this. So knowing and educating, I do believe it's it's everything too, because you do get a lot of naive people young, male and females, who sometimes get taken advantage of, uh and not always in the in the nicest, uh.

SPEAKER_03 29:10

Well, and you got another comment up here too about a lot of the times they weren't the best about showing you how to do the job expected of you, and you know, makes the Casina's the flashlight holder. And but that's in a and then we're talking about two, you know, infantry and aviation are two different sectors of uh of the military. And you know, in Myra's like, she had an NCO that actually took me in and taught her how to do her job, but I could see some of the same concepts between between infantry and aviation, but then some different concepts there as well, as far as technical expertise and people showing you how to do it. But I really y'all went right past this conversation about what you know the chalking your tires and stuff, because one of the best things that I ever that when I came up through, I was in field artillery and aviation and even a combat striker uh combat striker brigade combat team. And one of the things that we always used was either the ID 10-t form when we would actually have like the lowest, like the the E1, the E2, the E3, go ask like first sergeant commander for the ID 10-t forms or just the little stuff like that. And yeah, we and yeah, we got in trouble for it because when you know when First Sergeant was like, Who sent you in here? But it was, you know, did y'all ever you ever remember more of those where it was worth it? Where could for me it was worth it to get in trouble if you if they actually went through with it, that was pretty cool to the e air hoses for Humvee trailers, exhaust, you know, the exhaust samples for Humvees, all of those things.

SPEAKER_04 30:58

Well, Haley being in the medical field, I'm sure that there were some shenanigans that they sent you over, right?

SPEAKER_01 31:03

Yeah, I never I never got sent for it, but one of the things they would send people, the brand new airmen would be like, Can you go please ask for the fallopian tubes? Oh my god. Oh I how I missed that. I don't know. Well, yeah, I wouldn't know what philosophy tubes were, but that yeah, that was a thing.

SPEAKER_04 31:25

That's good. That's really good.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 31:29

Okay, I didn't expect that.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

Like yeah, yeah, or they send, and I can't think of a name right now, but they used to, they'd have um names if you say them slowly, it wasn't very funny, but if you said them quickly, it was like you know, like somebody depends or something. You know, I can't, like I said, I can't think of an example right now, but we used to have to go and you know, go into the uh lobby and call for the patient to come out. And they would send, they would give us someone, you know, ridiculous name, and they would wouldn't they wouldn't place it together until they actually said it, and then they said it in front of all the people, you know, all the patients. And you know, that happened a lot too to newbies, but how I managed to to escape that, I don't know, because it wasn't anything I did, or maybe they thought I wasn't funny or drunk. I don't know. Yeah, when I got to my first phase, so I got to Elmendorf, uh, Alaska, and um it could be that maybe they I don't know, but I know they sent Philippian tubes, that was a very common, very common thing. And they sent the boys out for that too, as well as as dear the girls. So yeah, it was even more funny when the guys asked for that.

SPEAKER_04 32:29

Okay, the comet, okay, the comet. So there's some serious comments here, and then you've got Jem pop and then we bend over. But um, but uh like I I need a second for a second, but uh but one of the things that that Marty said was um if there was a male that was a POS, uh or you know, or there's an individual problem, whereas females got basically grouped together. So you could have a female or male, and it goes both ways. Uh if you're predominantly male and you have females, a couple of them, and somebody's not pulling their weight, it gives the rest of them a bad rep too, and probably makes it tougher. I I could see where that would be that would make things tough too. To get lumped in.

SPEAKER_02 33:19

Yeah, I can say something to that because that's another I do that's another thing that there was an issue is those problematic for us problematic females that you had to be very the guys for sure, but you had to be very careful being around them just because they I don't know what their problems were, but they there was always they were maybe overly sensitive. Um they are for better word jerks about it. And so um, but I you know, always the guys in our squadron, they were like, just let us know where the lines are because they want to have you know interactions with us, but where are the lines? Because they don't want to get in trouble because they've been in trouble, because you know, there will be these females who would be overly friendly, but if they didn't like one of the males being what they thought were too nice, then they were down at HQ and you know, having them written up. Um, so I can understand that we had some problematic females that um you know, when they were trying to lump us in and say, Oh, you females, and we're like, uh, wait a minute, that's her, that's not us, you know, you know. I wanted I I was a team player, I feel like I'm a team player. Um, but then you had some of these knucklehead females, but you had knucklehead males too, that were problematic and it made us kind of look bad. And then they weren't, I don't know, they were just difficult in their own way for whatever reason. Maybe they had to prove something. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 35:02

Well, we are we are about halfway through the episode, and I told you it's gonna, it's gonna fly. So um, if we can, James, I would love to go ahead and play our uh Women Veterans Day uh tribute that was done. And then when we come back, I want to talk about uh a few more of the more challenging environments and things that uh um that kind of happened uh in the in the in the military to see you know where we can kind of uh grow from here as a group.

SPEAKER_03 35:35

Yeah. So we'll go we'll go to a commercial break, and when we come back from the commercial break, we'll get back into these topics, get back into the comments. We we got a lively comment section, so thank y'all. We're not reading everything you say, but we see it and we appreciate you. So let's go to commercial break real quick, and then we'll be right back.

SPEAKER_04 40:33

Between James and I, we know about eighty-five percent of those women veterans. And that's that's the awesome part. When you stop and you think about it, and you're like, wow, like the different professions, different career tracks, different levels of success. It's it's just it's freaking awesome. And uh you're muted, brother.

SPEAKER_03 41:02

We had a few in there. Note know that if you provided pictures and it wasn't in there, we do apologize. We put in there what we could. So there's missing a few in there that I sent you, but it we'll we'll highlight them. Um but yeah, absolutely. We know most of the people in that video, and that's that's the cool part, is and and a lot of those people are direct supporters of what we're doing right now. That's that's the awesome, you know, you know.

SPEAKER_04 41:33

So but you know, let's let's get into some of the deeper side of this. And uh on your on your pieces, it's really gonna be kind of like number six and number seven that I'd I'd like to spend the last 20 minutes uh kind of talking about. Um, because it it does bring us back to kind of what Heroes in the Sky does and and what Nautical Salute focuses on, as well as Haley and your job today, and Susie with what you're doing as well uh with the uh women's veterans of Coastal of the Empire. Um and that's really about you know isolation, sisterhood, representation, uh mental health, and the invisible strain. Uh there's a there's a lot of pieces here, and uh I'd love for you to kind of just share uh Haley, let's start with you. Um were there any times during your your time at service that you felt like maybe you had some emotional burdens or stressors, things like that that that weighed on you that may have affected things? And if so, like how did how did you how did you how were you able to go to leadership if you if you could or or what how did you deal with it?

SPEAKER_01 42:50

Right. Um I I did have one situation that I actually don't talk about much um at all. Um and I didn't go to leadership, I didn't go to anybody, I just kept it. Um and that goes back to being raised to believe that you don't put yourself in a bad situation. Um and so I was in a situation where um things could have gone much worse than what they did. Um and I'm thankful they didn't. Um I'm thankful I had friends that helped. Um without going into details, I guess I don't I don't discuss it. Um but um but I didn't go to leadership and it was an active duty person. Um I was active duty, he was active duty. We were at a um a uh a party that was all active duty for folks. Um and so I thought I was in a safe situation and I was not. Um and so, but I never turned him in because again, I believed I had put myself, I had made I was in bad judgment and so and yeah, I wasn't dressed poorly, I wasn't I was in jeans and t shirt, it wasn't anything you know terrible. I just but I believed. believe that I had put myself in a bad situation. And so I have just always kept that to myself. And I I I don't I wish I had better I wish I had something better to provide than that. But I don't and that's how I was raised. But I have very intentionally told my children and my son too that when you get put when you're in a situation that's not necessarily your own j your judgment. And even if you do put yourself, you make bad choices in your situation that you can't control, you are not responsible for other people's actions.

SPEAKER_04 44:35

Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01 44:36

Absolutely not and so even if you find yourself someday down the line you you've had maybe a couple extra peers or whatever and your your judgment's lapsed the other person's actions are still not your responsibility. It's their fault behaving the way they did and it's you know you have to own yourself, always take responsibility for your own actions but you are not responsible for the other person. And um I have been very intentional in telling my children that and I think that's important for to tell our our military members male and female because men can be put in a bad situation too. And yeah and I wish I I I don't have any bright shining I went to leadership and they behave nobly or anything like that. I kept that one to myself and I still do.

SPEAKER_03 45:19

Well and also too do you think that when we talk about this a lot of times with the challenges with women is like feelings of betrayal are feelings of you really can't trust the institutions around you.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

You think some of that plays into this is because of that yeah absolutely because when this happened I was living in the dorms and the single women living in the dorms I mean we right or not we had um perceived there was perceptions um whether that was correct or not and so I knew that I had very little ground to stand on um and that never even occurred to me to turn them in.

SPEAKER_03 46:02

Never occurred to me never well we got a comment down here real quick and we'll get to Susie so thank you Amber for coming in Amber's another good supporter of what we're of what we do and good friend of mine for been a friend of mine for years. She said that it breaks her their I guess you her special victim's heart that you dealt with that situation and that she's happy to hear now that uh that you that we know that you were not responsible for the other's activity.

SPEAKER_01 46:31

So yeah and I'm okay I am it wasn't um I was I am I am fortunate in that it wasn't this it was an event certainly and it's certainly it's something that has weighed on me but it's not life altering I have a good life I've had a good life and I don't this is not some big dark cloud that that really weighs heavily upon me. So I'm very fortunate in that respect.

SPEAKER_04 46:52

Yeah but I I also think that speaks you know volumes for for even your own maturity from a a young age uh I think you said you went in when you were 21. I was 21 when this happened I was 24 but having having the ability to kind of like hopefully even share some of that with other other female service members to kind of help warn them and such I I can already tell you the type person that that in confidence you shared that with with people to kind of avoid certain situations like that as well.

SPEAKER_01 47:25

I I did um I again I never explained everything but in my situation it was a um I I believe I don't have proof uh it was like a um something was put into a drink that I had um and so I've all I've always been very um there since then and told my kids about that too so that was something I I did share that yes back with my other friends yes Susie Yeah I had something similar happen but um I think even as women be even growing up or like you know you gotta if any any guy says or does or comes too close or touches or flirts with you it's you know it's automatically our fault because maybe we were wearing something maybe we behaved a certain way and um if they cross the line that it's our fault and then I think that's why a lot of women who go through this you know don't say anything because you know either we're not gonna be believed or um it is our fault.

SPEAKER_02 48:36

Maybe there's some guilt and shame and you know that we did something wrong. You know I think that's part of it. And then and also we have this leadership like I had good leadership but at the same time I kind of you know if I had anything that had happened I didn't tell them because even though I trusted them with so much there's certain things I'm not sure I could trust them with um and especially you know if you got back from a deployment and you were like debriefed and whatever and you were like it was fine I'm fine everything was fine you know no problems it's great because you're also afraid to say something that if you're something happened or you're feeling down or depressed that they're gonna sideline you they're going to a red flag you or something and um and I actually was told by my leadership um to not say anything to medical you know not say anything because there was you know I don't remember what words they said but basically not to say anything because it could be problematic um it could it's gonna go on your record and and so I you know you never say anything everything is fine everything is great no problems I always I always try to tell my soldiers uh who worked for me that you know any any any female you work with you know you treat them the way you would also want someone to treat your little sister you know or your mom you know you know what I mean it's it's that like no like that's that's my battle and you know Cruz is who's in the comments you know she was my battle buddy and for for four years we served together and like I can tell you we had a very tight knit group and there was definitely things that we could do and say but I was very fortunate to see that we had a lot of strong women that I served with who also would stand on business and be like oh no no no that's not gonna happen here you know what I mean it's it's unfortunate that that doesn't happen everywhere in the military it's it's it actually angers me because it's like it's not this hard like treat people with dignity and respect right yeah number one I can tell you how where it changed um it was good i i had two back to back deployments um and you know where it changed is that everything was great with my leadership until we left we went to Germany for seven months and um these this some uh one in particular leadership somebody I trusted um I mean nothing happened with me but I saw him do some things that he shouldn't have and I think that's when I was like it changed for me and I I guess I did a blanketed oh I don't know who I can trust anymore type of thing and so I was very cautious and standoffish because I saw I didn't I saw him do something that I never thought he would do. Yeah you know and then also I was told you know you know when I was seeing other people do things and like are you gonna say anything I said well I'm not gonna say anything unless somebody asks me and then I'm not gonna keep my mouth shut but you know don't ask don't ask me don't have anybody ask me but if you report them then you're it's you're ending their career it's not it's not their actions ending their career or impacting their career.

SPEAKER_01 52:41

You are ending your career.

SPEAKER_02 52:42

And then you get a title you're a pro another problematic female.

SPEAKER_04 52:46

Yeah right James James you've got some statistics that we talked about last night that I know you wanted to hit today that really is it hits home to a lot of this and it's heavy.

SPEAKER_03 52:57

Yeah so we y'all touched on it a little bit earlier outside of the military sexual trauma and we're talking about the mental health aspect to this we we look into women's women veterans mental health and we're starting to see some problematic patterns and one of those being is our female veterans are 92 to 95 percent more likely to die by suicide than their civilian counterparts and when we start getting into 92 and 95 percent numbers it tells me there's a problem that we have not addressed there's it there's an elephant in the room that that it's still plaguing our our nation and and that's that's that falls along with what Heroes in the sky does as far as education but one of the other ones I got Sean with last night was you know female veterans are a 144% more likely to use a firearm to die by suicide than the female counterpart 144% more likely and when we look at all these statistics and we look at why isolation despair you feel betrayed because like Susie was talking about you you you saw something happen but you can't say anything because then you're the tattletale or you're the problem or you know career you know killing your career. Yeah yeah well and then you know and honestly it's accountability you know the reason your leadership told you not to say when you got back from that deployment you did that screening they did not want you to say you had a problem because it means there was accountability they had to face and do something about and not only are their officer evaluation report would would reflect upon that. Correct and I and that's and so talking about mental health did you you know serving in that capacity did you ever catch your mental health slipping as you know you went through some of that felt some of that betrayal that you couldn't trust the people around you or just did you ever hit a dark spot like that where you really had to focus and you just struggled um I was told you know that to not to be it's a sign of weakness.

SPEAKER_02 55:17

So you know you just kind of I never thought about it you know I just thought well this is part of being in the military and you know this is you know I didn't you know join a sorority you know I joined the military and this is you know it's just part of it and um so I never really and I I thought it was a sign of weakness I guess if I felt you know that I was having a tough time you know when I got back from the desert my mother kept saying you're so angry and I'm like yes I was under a lot of distress you know and I come back and then everybody's just clawing in to get my attention I'm just like I need some breathing room you know um but I just thought well that's just part of being in the military. I didn't really think and it if I I if I complained I I'm weak.

SPEAKER_04 56:13

Can I pause can I pause you guys for a second? There's an observation that uh during this that I've I've just kind of it's like kind of hit me and and and you know when we started it you know I know that there's building trust with us too on on this on this level and and I just want you guys to know that it's it's tough to come onto a podcast and and and be in front of a lot of people and and and be vulnerable right um but as I hear your comfort level and it's like and how like similarities that you both have experienced and stuff it just hits home to me even more that we definitely are not doing enough as a society and as a military culture to make sure that our female counterparts are treated the same and looked upon as the same rather than a problem and I hate that you all had to go through this but I will tell you I am damn proud of you both and glad that you all are here to tell this story and and connect with other veterans that are watching male and female to say wow how many people are going to be watching this they're gonna say I can relate to that I can relate to Susie I can relate to that and you both came from different career fields within the Air Force and guess what similar issues well that's why I don't talk about it just because I you know I I don't feel like after talking to other women and listening to their stories I've heard some horrible stories and so I'm I thought well gee you know my military experience was great you know because I've heard these horror stories from you know speaking with other women and women within our organization and um and just like I just I feel terrible and that's one of the reasons why we started our organization is just to have something stronger to and more a way to provide more resources to support them because I don't what I don't know what else you to do.

SPEAKER_01 58:35

I want to help yeah I think we we as women just in general not so this is generally speaking of course but we um communicate obviously we communicate differently men but um yeah I belong to Legion also and the the camaraderie within legion for the men is fantastic but as women we relate differently and so having this group the women veterans of the coastal umpire is wonderful because it's not uh regimented necessarily it's not we don't have the the military regimental um ideology that maybe the legions do or the BFWs do we're just we're having lunch you know we're we're sitting back and having tea we're we're we're talking like friends and we are friends and that's how we relate and that's how um we commiserate and relax and then eventually open up that doesn't mean that all women are comfortable with that and maybe there are women veterans out there who would be more comfortable in a more regimenticed thing. And maybe there are there are probably many women who would prefer not to talk about anything and not be alone to anything. That's fine. It's just that I think that the women veterans the host empire we have that it's a wonderful niche for us to be comfortable in like a living room environment so to speak where we can just ourselves and talk about the experiences we've had. But I wanted to also mention um when Susie said we don't talk about it and my dog is over here and give me a drink of water if you can hear that I apologize. You're good you're good I can drink a little louder. But that the not talking about it that is um indicative of military as a whole um I worked in on the medical side of it and yes I was dental but I was right next door to the mental health section of the medical center. And um when I first got the David Grant Medical Center in California there was a um um a banner for lack of a better word of a sign um for those who were suffering from um uh the Gulf War syndrome Gulf War syndrome quote unquote is what what how it was on the banner please report to mental health that's what the banner said report to mental health if you're if you're um and so that was something that men and women experienced men and women were all serving in the Gulf War and but it they were recognized and I don't mean to divert this to that topic but my point is that the as a whole as military we were if you have an issue we'll go to mental health. Well if you go to mental health is you're gonna get flagged and you did your career.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:15

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:17

I worked in dental not very many people got flagged for being dental however I remember we saw flyers a lot. I remember very specifically this was a gentleman um he was uh a flyer as a pilot came in and of course just like any medical uh equipment you do blood pressure and all that and so I think his blood pressure his blood pressure pressure was through the roof and he immediately got angry and walked out and I was like what just happened and come to find out later his father had just passed away but he he was so obviously very stressed about his father's passing but now he knew he was in a medical facility if I had recorded his blood pressure that meant the flight dentist the flight surgeon would get notified and then his his flying would be impacted and so that that is a in his situation it was a man but that that was that is a indicative of a military in that if you have anything going on that's possibly um raise your blood pressure any mental health anything at all with the rest of the world to completely understand this this guy's dad had just died. He has a right if you're gonna have blood pressure go up like you know your blood pressure's going to spike when someone you love has just passed. And or when you come back from a deployment you're gonna be even even if it was a peaceful deployment there's still a transition when you come back from a peaceful deployment because you're coming back to the life you had before there's still an adjustment and then if you come back from a combat zone that's even more of adjustment. But yet in the military there's such a you know tamp it down it down tamp it down because you don't want your career impacted but then at some point you have to deal with this and so that is military wide it's not just male male and female but then as far as women and of course I can only speak for women we as a whole tend to hold back our emotions because we have to take care of the family we have to take care of the people around us we're very uh much expected whether it comes naturally to us or not to take care of the people around us and not ourselves first and so I think in that respect you know it's we can be very self-abusive whether we're aware of it or not if that makes any sense at all.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:26

Yeah well uh shamelessly we are plugging you uh uh as well for you know Georgiawomenbet's dot org uh that's where they can they can also find additional information out um susie I do feel like both of you individually would we're just scratching the surface of also like you know what you guys offer and and why you do what your why is um and I I do believe James at some point we can have both of them on individually to kind of really explore some of the challenges that they also face on the day to day with uh you know other female veterans and even even the services and how they may be treated differently at the VA or like some I know where my daughter goes to the VA in Martinsburg West Virginia they have a phenomenal women's clinic where I mean I mean phenomenal they've they've done a lot of pouring of resources into it and there's not also not a lot of sea box or other hospitals that have that extensive uh woman's center too because it's just different and I I hope they all adopt uh that and and they continue to to put more more and more into the into the female veteran side of things just because you know yeah y'all are amazing.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:50

Yeah absolutely I I think it's safe to say that if you're watching this there will be part twos with both of these phenomenal ladies with what they're doing in the community after they serve this nation and I want to highlight a few people in the comments as well a lot of these comments we know personally myra absolutely phenomenal um amber is author amber mclam is an author so if you're you know check her out you know she she writes she's an author she does a lot of consulting stuff and I we're we're grateful um everyone in our comment section we are grateful whether whether I know you personally or not you came on here and chose to spend some time with us tonight and show these other women veterans some love and support and I think that's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:36

So you know we are hitting about that hour mark though so do we want to get when it gives them time to close out each month we'll do the outro and and uh and have people tune in in a couple weeks but yeah at least uh if there's any additional information or resources you want to share um and it the floor is yours.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:59

Well thank you Thank you. Um I guess I just want to say personally, um, if there's any ladies who are watching this and thinking, you know, do I want to join the military or not? And they hear this and they think, oh my gosh, I'm gonna walk out starred for life. I will also say joining the military was the best decision I ever made. Hands down, without a doubt, best decision ever made. My life is as good as it is today because I joined the Air Force. Um, and so if you're thinking about doing it, certainly think more, think more. And and really, it's a wonderful, wonderful way of life. It really is. Um, there are resources out there, there are women's groups out there. Uh when you're out, you know, when you're active, there are women's groups out there. I mean, certainly women's group or women veterans of the coastal empire, um, the VA, you know, different VAs have got uh resources. If you're not happy with one one VA clinic, go to another one. You know, go find the one that you are because all of them are a little have their own flavor. Um, and there are civic groups too that will help. Um and but if if you're if you're just not sure where to go, give me a holler at the VA. Um I'm I'm happy to help. I work my I sit at the Savannah VA clinic. If you're I won't put my email out here right now because it's just it would confuse things, but please give us a call at the Savannah VA clinic uh clinic as for Haley. I'm the only Haley there. And uh if I don't know the answer, I will try and point you in the right direction. But um it's it's I would un I would not undo that choice for anything. I loved it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:30

Yeah, I concur with that too. Um, like I said, I joined when I was 28 years old, and um, but I would not change anything because I wouldn't be here with you guys and my girl Haley, and um, I wouldn't be in this point in my life, I wouldn't be part of the Women Veterans of the Coastal Empire, and I'm very, very happy to be a part of this and this community. And our ladies are amazing, our group is awesome. And so please join us. Please go online or go to our Facebook page and join. Um, we are really excited. We are working with the state of Georgia and to with the they have a new women veterans advisory council and um to make resources better for our women veterans in the state of Georgia, as well as more things to come to Savannah that they do have in Atlanta, more things that come to Savannah. Um but yes, I wouldn't change my time in the military. I have some great, I have some funny stories, some embarrassing, great, funny stories. But um yeah, if anybody's ever interested, I I push for the 165th. I absolutely love the 165th and um the Georgia Air National Guard. I really have a lot of respect for them, and especially when I have gone overseas, gone around the world um where our unit was involved, and they're like, Oh, the air dogs, we love them. And I'm like, oh, that's so nice. It's like somebody saying nice things about your family. You're like, thank God. Um I wouldn't change anything, and I'm excited about our organization because, like I said, you know, I want more stuff to be here in Savannah. We are a military town, and um it's also for our ladies, um, not just here, but for the in the state of Georgia. So, and thank you for inviting me. This has been really exciting.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:28

Absolutely, and there will be further, you know, we'll we'll definitely take some time to bring you back on individually so we can dive deeper into what each of you do. And Sean, I wanted to say something because we we couldn't have picked two guests that exemplify what something we were talking about last night. You remember you were you remember when we were talking about up there's an upward of 70% of women veterans that sometimes won't even claim to be a woman a women a woman veteran. You know, and then we picked the two that would come on here and tell you why you should be proud to say you're a uh a woman veteran and what you and what each of you gave back to this country, this the service, your community, what what the the veterans and our comments gave gave gave back to this community and their service is just phenomenal that we're a part of this. And I'm excited to learn more about what each of you do. Know that you've got supporters from both of our sides, and y'all, you don't get to see Sean that much, but Haley and Susie get to see a good bit of me at vet council. And I'm gonna start back up.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:44

I just get it.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:47

I'm gonna start going back up to the VA like I used to on the on my Mondays and be present again there and and just I'm just pro I'm appreciative of what each of you do and the courage and strength that you had to come on here and talk about your struggles, the high points, and we look forward to having more conversations.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:12

Yep, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:13

So um also if you're a woman veteran watching and you're not a part of our group or you're a part of our group and forget that we have a website. On the website, go to the events page. We list all the events that we're doing, our monthly meetups, you know, anything out in the community. And so you can see that. Come join us. Um, tomorrow we'll be in Sylvania, Georgia. And then on the 27th, we're gonna be back down in Brunswick. So please come join us for lunch and community, and you're always welcome.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:45

So, what time before we get off? What tomorrow you'll be in Sylvania? So, what are the details? What time? Where do they need to be if they want to join?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:53

Sure. So Sylvania, Georgia at Billy Joe's. Um, and it's a veteran-owned business at 11:30 for lunch.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:03

Okay. There you go. Do we have any events coming up the VA Haley that we need to know about?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:11

Um the 17th is our drive-thru baby shower, but that is typically kind of a scheduled thing. So, what that is, it was born during COVID, it's our our veteran, female veterans who are expecting who might be in need. And so the drive-thru part came from COVID. Um, and we just kind of kept it going because people like it. Um, and so they're scheduled uh from through the women, uh, women's health department or women's health clinic, and uh they come in and they pick up things that are needed. We have it all staged and ready to roll. Um I I wanted to do kind of a women resource fair, but we didn't get it approved through public affairs this year quick enough. And so uh we'll push forward to next year or maybe a later a later date. But yeah, that's that's a big deal every year for us to to push that or to the drive-through baby salary. So it helps a lot.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:58

My daughter has participated in that, yeah. Basically, Durp, and that was freaking awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:04

Great, that's awesome. I wish I had known about it when I was having my kids. I didn't have that then. So yeah, it's wonderful. I'm glad to hear that. That's good to know.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:15

All right, outstanding. Well, we're gonna we'll close out. We uh thank you to both of you, and we will be yeah, I will be in contact with each one of you to bring you back on so we can focus more on individual missions and dive more deeper into that stuff. You both did great. Thank you for all the comments. Everyone in the comments did great, and then we're gonna close it out with our you know, if you had nerves, you couldn't tell. Y'all did phenomenal. Yep. So we'll close it out into with a word to our sponsors, real quick. I just want to thank the American Legion Post 135 in Savannah. They're located in historic downtown Savannah at 1108 Bull Street. They're a member of the largest veteran service organization in the nation. They were founded on the principles of service to our veterans and to our community, state, and nation. Their membership is open to any veteran who has served honorably and to active duty service members. They are home to the local 1110, Betty Bombers, Brighter Day, Centennial Bean, and Lee Chai, and their bar is open to the public. The best part about this, if you want to host a public event there, contact our friends, contact Haley, contact anyone at the at that at the post, and you can use that beautiful space. And they'll rent it out to you, and you just have a great time. So thank you to American Legion. Thank you to Annie Montenegro from Raw's Realty, Annie SellsGeorgia.com, phenomenal realtor. She's uh expertise is through the roof. Uh, her phone number's on the screen right there. Get a hold of her. We also want to thank uh Mari Bennett as well, Realty One Group Inclusion. Mari Search Homes and Savannah.com. Her number is up there. And just know when you work with Mari that she turns around and she turns that those some of that support right back to the veteran organizations in the community. So she does a phenomenal job. So thank you everyone for being here. Heroes in the sky out, and we look forward to having many more meaningful, many more meaningful conversations with you ladies and many more veterans and service, you know, those those ones making a difference in our community. So thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:36

Thank you.

SPEAKER_10 1:15:50

Like victory speeches, like metals hitting a wooden table, like somebody finally saying, You made it. But healing healing sounded more like silence. Like sitting in the truck too long after work. Because home felt safer when the engine was still running. Like staring at a grocery store aisle, trying to remember why your heart suddenly started racing. Like waking up at 2.13 in the morning, sweating through memories you never asked to keep. See, they trained us to survive the battlefield, but nobody really taught us how to survive ourselves afterward. Nobody talked about how trauma follows you home wearing civilian clothes. How it hides in fireworks, crowded rooms, empty bottles, divorce papers, missed phone calls, and a sentence. I'm fine. Especially that sentence. I know veterans who carried entire teams on deployment, but struggle to carry groceries inside the house now. Men and women who could navigate chaos overseas but can't navigate their own thoughts when the room gets quiet. And still, they wake up. Still, they fight. That matters. You hear me? That matters. Because hope isn't always loud. Sometimes hope is just making the appointment, answering the phone, talking for the first time, saying, no, I don't think I'm okay. That's courage too. Maybe even the purest kind. See, the world loves the image of the warrior, but healing asks something harder. It asks the warrior to become human again, to let people in. To trust again. To stop apologizing for wounds nobody can see. And that process. It's ugly sometimes. There are setbacks, bad nights, anger that shows up uninvited. Days where depression feels heavier than body armor ever did. But there are also moments, small moments, where light gets true. The kids laugh, the sunrise after a sleepless night. Brothers and sisters sitting around the table finally telling the truth. The stranger's name. Me too. That's where healing begins. Not in pretending that trauma never happened. But in realizing that trauma doesn't get to right the end. You survived war. You survived loss. You survived becoming someone you barely recognize. Now comes the hardest mission of all. Believing you deserve peace too. And maybe peace doesn't forget. Maybe peace is learning that your scars are not proof you're broken. They're proof you kept going. So to every veteran still fighting battles nobody sees.