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Unlocking AI Secrets: How to Stand Out in Tech Recruitment in 2026 with Shauna O'Reilly

• Sheena Burce • Episode 55

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In this episode, Shauna shares her insights on the dynamic landscape of AI, talent acquisition, and career growth in tech. 


I'm Shauna, originally from Dublin, Ireland. I studied Business and Commerce at TU Dublin, went on to qualify as a financial advisor, and then made the leap to Australia at 24. I’ve travelled all of Australia (except Adelaide) and one of my favourite memories is being on a private boat with my ten best friends, sailing around the Whitsundays. Life-changing!

Similar to everyone in recruitment, I fell into it. Today, I specialise in placing top AI, SWE, Data and Architect candidates across startups, scale-ups, and larger enterprises. What I really love is working with startups, sitting alongside incredible entrepreneurs, hearing how they're building something from nothing, and helping them scale from their very first hire all the way to 50-plus people. Watching a company go from pre-seed to Series A or B 

And doing it in a city like Sydney, I get to meet talent from all over the world, each person with their own story, their own journey, their own reason for being here. And I find that genuinely incredible. I'm also a strong advocate for Women in Tech and Leadership, and I'm passionate about championing diversity across everything I do.

I love country music, travelling, concerts, wine tours and being with family and friends!

Discover how AI tools are transforming recruitment, what skills are in high demand, and practical tips for building a standout career in a candidate-rich environment. 


Main Topics:

  • Shauna’s experience with AI tools like Claude and Claude Code
  • The impact of AI on software development and recruitment roles
  • How to effectively filter AI-generated CVs and stand out in the talent pool
  • Evolving skill sets: Soft skills vs technical skills in AI era
  • Strategies for successful remote, face-to-face interviews, and onboarding
  • The importance of confidence, negotiation, and personal branding in tech careers
  • The gender pay gap, confidence building for women in tech, and advocacy
  • Realistic approaches to investment property and wealth building for tech professionals

Timestamps:

  • 00:00 - Shauna's introduction to AI tools and workflows
  • 02:11 - Deep dive into Claude Code and base 44 for app building
  • 04:34 - The evolution of AI-driven CV writing and filtering tips
  • 08:33 - Talent landscape shifts with AI adoption and new roles
  • 11:03 - Automation in testing and technical roles; soft skills gain importance
  • 13:35 - The rising significance of soft skills and human interaction
  • 16:19 - Data privacy regulations (GDPR) and compliance challenges
  • 17:41 - Identifying and filtering AI-crafted CVs
  • 23:04 - Strategies for sourcing passive candidates and building relationships
  • 27:32 - Building a personal brand and creative approaches to job applications
  • 31:03 - Handling work-from-home questions in interviews
  • 34:14 - Preventing costly hiring mistakes through better recruitment processes
  • 37:57 - The importance of onboarding and retaining top talent
  • 40:34 - Navigating pre-seed to IPO growth stories
  • 42:20 - Building wealth: investments, savings, and property insights
  • 46:20 - Advice for young women in tech: confidence and advocacy
  • 48:50 - Negotiation tips and correcting salary misconceptions

Resources & Links:

Connect with Shauna:

Additional notes: Shauna emphasizes the importance of authentic storytelling in your resume, soft skills in today’s AI-driven environment, and strategic relationship-building for career progression. She also highlights the critical need for proper onboarding and compliance in tech hiring.

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sheena@fireyfemmes.com

SPEAKER_01

Welcome to Fiery Femes, the podcast where high-achieving women build wealth, redesign their careers, and create lives with real freedom. I'm Sheena, an accredited investor, former tech sales professional, and the founder of Fiery Femes. After a decade across global SaaS, startups, and my own reinventions, I realized the most powerful thing a woman can have is optionality. So in every episode, we explore the future of work, the psychology of wealth, and the practical strategies that help women build careers and lives that evolve as fast as they do. Shona, thank you so much for preparing for your time. I'm so excited to record this because, as you mentioned, it is quite a talent-rich environment. So I think a lot of our folks in tech and those high-income roles are going to be very interested to hear from what you have to say.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so yeah, the Claude Workshop was pretty great, wasn't it? I've actually been using it quite extensively since. I've signed up to the monthly membership and it's been great, just kind of developing workflows. So yeah, I thought that was really good because before when I went into that event, I wasn't too sure. I knew there was obviously Claude chat, but I just actually think, you know, looking at Claude Co-work and Claude Code was just really, really valuable. Amazing. So I use Claude Co work and Claude Chat to write the code for me. If I was using base 44 apps, you can actually get Claude Code to write the code for you for to build the app. So yeah, there's just been a lot of uh experiments that I've done. Um it's really cool because obviously working in tech, you can kind of see what's actually done behind the scenes, and you can even get to kind of do it yourself, which is really interesting. Production, so it's really cool.

SPEAKER_01

I love it. I um I've gone through the process of linking to strike payments for sure. Yeah, so like created a few, and um, my my choice of vibe coding tool is lovable. Okay, and just like playing around with that, and similar to you, how I use Claude is I'll create like the wireframes, the concept, like testing it and like reasoning with like Claude and myself and creating the prompt for lovable.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Very, very, very look at us.

SPEAKER_00

Look at us doing all this. I know because I was doing I was just playing around with Claude code, and then it was saying I needed to download Node.js for something, and even kind of just like experiencing that, and then I was like, right, okay, I'll just download it, see what happens, you know. And then I was like downloading Node.js, and then I had that on my laptop, and then I was able to see how you can kind of code them with Node.js, and it's just something I've never really been exposed to and having spent the last five years, you know, speaking to developers, engineers, testing engineers day in, day out. It was just so cool to actually just see that on my screen, do you know, and to just experiment with that myself.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, definitely. Um a lot, a lot happening now, and especially like there's so much development in that space that whatever you I feel like whatever we knew a few weeks ago when we met in that workshop, it's probably outdated by now. Yeah, literally. But so, Shauna, just to introduce you to the audience, you're a recruiter at Talent Web and you specialize in technical talent.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's right. So been working in the recruitment space for about five years and specifically specialize on recruitment for software engineers, data engineers, architects, and now AI. So that kind of crosses a bit of machine learning and stuff as well. So kind of everything that's quite you'd say like hard tech and recruit all across that space. And again, because the market is changing so quickly, the landscape for technology is changing so quickly, I think it's a good thing, you know, to be kind of across.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, for sure. And uh before we dive deep, I was like very tempted to just like get into the nitty-gritty. But um, what is something? Um, obviously, you know, LinkedIn's all what we use, especially um as a recruiter, right? Uh, what is something that is not on your LinkedIn?

SPEAKER_00

Well, something, but I actually probably is, but I came from a finance background. So I was actually doing a qualified financial advisor, done my exams for my QFAs in Ireland, they're called. So qualified financial advisor, graduated with a first class honours in business and commerce, back at home, moved out to Australia when I was 24 from Ireland, Dublin. So been here for seven years, absolutely loving it. I've traveled pretty much all of Australia except Adelaide. I've not been to Adelaide yet, but it's on my list. Yeah. So I've like, you know, went got a camper van with 10 of my girlfriends. We drove down from Darwin in the Northern all the way down to Perth. Um, we've done the East Coast, we've gone to Melbourne, Tasmania. So yeah, I like to travel. And I actually love country music as well. I'm always at every country music concert. So that's probably not on my LinkedIn either.

SPEAKER_01

So would you say that you've been to Tamworth during their music music festival week?

SPEAKER_00

Have, yeah, I have been to Tamworth. It's great. And I went to um have you heard of CMC? It's in just it's in Ipswinter, I think it's called. It's an hour outside of Brisbane. Really, really good. So it's actually like Tamworth on steroids, I would say. So you've got really good country music artists. So have you heard of Riley Green? No, I'm I'm not a country.

SPEAKER_01

All right. I'll I'll listen to like the pop country, which probably is there's a lot more country music, but I would hear listen to like is it Teddy Swims? Like maybe that's country, but maybe it's not.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, he's kind of country, yeah. Well, I'd recommend it. CMC is like a music festival. No one seems to know about it in Australia, but it's like three, it actually goes on for weeks. You can camp there for a week. But me and one of my friends who just went for three days, so three nights camping uh and you wake up and you're just waking up to country music singers on the stage, but they're very reputable, like they're quite big artists that attend, so yeah, that's really good. But Tamwork as well is brilliant. What a vibe!

SPEAKER_01

That's amazing. Thank you for sharing. And definitely you're missing out. Have go to Adelaide. I mean, it's winter now as well. One of my favorite cities. I'll send you a list like when you go, um, but like such a great time. McLaren Vale, amazing wines, but it's also because uh they also have a good nightlife. Right, okay. Bic which I was so surprised, but because they didn't have lockout laws. Had like lockout laws since 2015, 2014, 2015. So the culture of nightlife has changed, as you can see. But Adelaide didn't have that. So it's a great time. Oh, yeah, I'll definitely put it on the list. 100%. Yeah, perfect. Well, thank you for that. Again, I wanted to talk to you about like the talent landscape right now, especially with like the business owners, uh, what kind of candidates that they're looking for. And you know, with like AI and technology moving at the moment, how do you what what's the vibe of the business owners at the moment on the talent that they're looking for?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so it's definitely the the goalposts are definitely moving. As we discussed before, um, things like literally are just the requirements are just changing every day. And you're kind of looking at so it depends on where the business is at in terms of the maturity with AI would say, or just even their maturity within the tech technology landscape as well. So you'll find like a lot of kind of businesses where their core competency isn't specifically technology or software. So like maybe property companies, just you know, some sales companies, wherever like technology isn't their core competency, they probably haven't even gone through a digital transformation yet. So that's like kind of moving over from legacy technology, having a lot of technical depth, and moving over to more kind of modern and modern tech stack. So I think those kind of businesses are a little bit struggling because they don't know where to start in terms of the requirements and what they're looking for because they're still working on such a legacy outdated platform and then they're trying to keep up to date with AI and stuff as well. But obviously, you can't be like execute an like excellent AI platform or product or initiative if you haven't even kind of updated your current legacy platform, you know. Um and then in terms of like your startup scale-ups, those companies that are definitely more kind of technology adaptable, they yeah, in terms of what they're looking for, I'd say it's like there's a whole new range of roles that we're seeing at the moment. So AI has created a lot of different roles. So you're seeing like AI engineer, there's a lot of requirements for data engineers because data is like the most valuable kind of resource that you have in AI, because if the data models aren't right, then the AI is not gonna be right. So it's kind of building those data models first. Um, there's a lot around AI governance as well, because there's obviously going to be so much. I don't think we've actually seen the repercussions yet, but I think there's gonna be a lot like of kind of repercussions and security and everything like that that we're gonna see as a result of AI. Like I know there's some companies in the news now that are in the media that are like under the microscope that are being looked at in terms of the way that they're working with AI, just to make sure it's legal. Um so I think there's gonna be a lot around, there is a lot around technical governance. Um so there's that those newly created roles, first of all, and then second of all, in terms of the type of candidate that they're looking for. So we're seeing AI is able to automate a lot of tasks now. You know, Common Bank has actually got rid of their intestine function altogether. So yeah. Yeah. Really? When did that happen? A few months ago now, I'd say probably about four or five months ago. It started, and now they're continuing to kind of get rid of people. Um, I know they went through a lot of redundancies, and they are the a lot of testing people left or people that were contracting, their contracts were renewed. Um, and then just speaking to other candidates in that space, they've mentioned that they're actually asking the testers to move over into an engineering role. So they want this best tested candidate to be a full stack engineer or some type of engineer, and then just do testing in addition to the engineering. So, yeah, that's due to just a lot of tests and being automated, and there's other functions within the software development lifecycle that has been automated too. So I think what really clients are looking for across the board is just kind of having that candidate that's more, you know, entrepreneur, has an entrepreneurial mindset, good business acumen, has those soft skills, has, you know, that ability to think critical at an enterprise level and very solution focused holistically across the board, whether it be enterprise, technical solutions, dealing with state, difficult stakeholders within the business. So the bar has definitely risen for the expectations for a lot of candidates in the technology space. I think as well, like previously before AI, it was like, you know, the general kind of uh consensus of a uh engineer or someone in technology is they kind of come in and they code and they don't really, they kind of sit in the background, they don't really integrate with the rest of the business. So we're definitely seeing that shift now because of AI and you know, hires are becoming more critical as well. And the it's definitely kind of like a client market where there's a lot more candidates on the market than there is to the number of jobs. So I think that yeah, the bar has definitely risen and they want someone that is, as I said, entrepreneurial and at that enterprise level, everything that I've just listed there, um, in addition to being very technical, savvy as well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that there you go. So soft skills are definitely more in demand now. That's what I'm hearing now. Um I saw that apparently was it, what was it? Like girls in is it social marketing, PR, girls in spam are like the new girls in STEM. Okay. Cause back at not back in the days, like there was a huge push for being technical, like the analysis part, the the technical skills developing. But again, those are the the tasks that's getting automated. Whereas social, being social soft skills, it's so hard to replicate. So yeah, definitely being social is having a moment.

SPEAKER_00

It really is, yeah. And I think that's a great thing about you know the events that myself and yourself met at is actually going out and you know, meeting people and you know, being in the room and having those questions, having those conversations, asking those questions. I think that's what really makes, you know, someone stand out in this market as well is just kind of that curiosity as well, you know, that you're not able to get out of AI if you're the companies are saying we don't need engineers, we can just do get AI to it. But I think, you know, I think it's not going to go down that route at all. I think, you know, the that human touch that is actually brought into a company and brought into you know working on a specific project. I think there's a lot more that humans can give that AI can't massively.

SPEAKER_01

I'm getting uh I have a a lot of technical friends. One uh runs a web dev agency and he's getting a lot more requests to fix code. Yeah like from vibe vibe coding tools.

SPEAKER_00

So I think it's going full circle. Exactly. And I think there's so much noise as well in the market at the moment. So like if you like Rob for posting on LinkedIn and everything, but I think you know, if you open Instagram, if you open any kind of platform at the moment, it's just someone selling their product, and it's something maybe that you know, there's so much more, as I said, noise, and there's so much more products out there because people are able to kind of jump on and build something end-to-end using AI. So I think it's just also a matter of kind of a sprint to see who's get there quickest. But I think you'll always need like you know, someone that is has that deep technology understanding as well, as opposed to just being able to vibe code an app. Like even the app I said I vibe coded, I'm like, okay, I need someone now to actually help me with this because I don't know what to do now. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. I'm always doubtful, so I don't want to get any details with like the tools that I've vibe coded. I'm careful not to take any personal details because I don't want to be responsible for the data for all the GDPR compliance stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It's crazy, isn't it? And that comes back to the requirement for governance as well. That we're probably gonna see. It's probably, you know, all these companies are coming in and implementing AI initiatives and rolling things out and then actually not doing their due diligence around, you know, all the GDPR. A lot of companies are implementing that without doing their due diligence. Um, and then I think that's gonna be a major repercussion that we're gonna see is you know, things being audited and um just kind of saying, like, well, you haven't followed any of the legislation here. And yeah, I think that's gonna be massive, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01

Huge, huge. So uh I had to Google it. I am having flashbacks of me completing my GDPR compliance when I was at LinkedIn. It's the general data protection regulation.

SPEAKER_00

Right, okay, yeah. Because I remember I was actually working in a bank at the time and that was implemented in Ireland, and I don't know how I can remember that, but I remember just being literally drilled into my mind.

SPEAKER_01

I think at the time all the companies had to scramble because there was like a timeline for it too. Yeah, yeah. Anywho, so going back, I wanted to ask because you mustn't you must see a lot of CVs now. And there I know that with ChatGPT and like CVs, there's apparently a big spike of applications that look exact, that look perfect. Like they look like they're the perfect candidate because you can tailor it very easily. How do you filter out those like chat GPT or claw-generated CVs?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think like I wouldn't even say they're perfect now, to be honest. I'd say the ones that are done on ChatGPT just aren't perfect at all because the minute you look at a resume, you're able to distinguish if this is written by AI. Firstly, you've obviously got your long M dashes that everyone's aware of. So if you're not taking the M dashes out of your CV and you use ChatGPT, then that's a red flag. The what a lot of candidates are doing are they are using the JD, the job description, and then they're putting in their experience and they're saying, write me a resume based on this job description, and then they're applying for it. So you'll also see a lot of the key words and the key requirements are highlighted bold as well, because it's like ChatGPT telling you this is what I've done for you. You know, these are the words that we've put on to highlight. So there's that, and and you've got like these ridiculous emojis and stuff as well, all over the resume.

SPEAKER_01

And Chat GBT. There's emo there are emojis in the CV.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. There's like just like even in the personal details, you can tell that's like the phone, and then you've got the email emoji, and yeah, and they're just written in the same font. I don't know what the font is, but it's chat GBT, but you can literally tell the mini open resume because I think like, yeah, so the way to kind of distinguish that is yeah, just those for first instance, like you can tell straight away. It's also written in like a very kind of like paragraph blocky format, which is just isn't good. Like you're not really telling the story of your experience, and I'm just seeing so many candidates sell themselves short because of this, in particular, like it's difficult for a lot of kind of C level uh candidates or more senior candidates that have so much experience, and I do definitely sympathize with that and understand that with a lot of candidates it is hard to put all your experience into one resume. And look, sometimes it is good just to kind of do three different resumes for you know one thing, like whether it's like a manager role you're applying for or hands-on, because it's not lying, it's not fabricating anything, but it is again, I would rather you do that in a difficult job market and highlight that experience than just use a really vague resume, you know. Um, so yeah, like so. I think, and even now when you just see a resume that's not written by ChatGPT, you're like, yes, when someone has actually sat down and you know spent time and really kind of thought about okay, look at each role, you know, your last your most recent roles in the last six, seven years and really remember, okay, what did I actually achieve when I was there? You know, I don't want to just see like two lines about what you done because of course you're gonna have done that, you know, that's obvious. But like the key thing that people want to see, hire managers want to see is you know, you write out your responsibilities, but you really think about what it is you do. You don't just get AI to write it for you because AI doesn't know what you've achieved. Like if you don't, you know, so you need to really think about right, this is what I've done. I reported, I had this amount of people reported to me. I grew a team from like you know, a team of five people to a team of 50 people. How did you do that? You know, you've done were involved in the recruitment process. Um, and then I always say to candidates, always, you know, have a key achievements under your responsibilities and use statistics to back up those achievements. We want to see key statistics to be like, you know, okay, you've increased the customer base by 50% due to a project that you've worked on, or you've saved the company uh, you know, a particular type of a certain amount of money or whatever because of this project, or how many users were using this, you know, stats, because that's what uh people in the technology domain love to see. Like, wow, this is great, like this is you've done this. Um and it's important to also put in your individual contribution as well. So, you know, a lot of these kind of vague chat GPD generated resumes will just kind of say, This is what we done, but it's like, what did you actually do? Like, this is you applying for the role. You're not applying for the role with your team, you know? And that's why resumes are so, so important. And even now I'm you know speaking to again a lot of really senior candidates and they just don't understand why they have to do a resume because they've never had to do one before. Um because the market's very difficult, like, and honestly, I've really, really synthized with people now in this job market. It's it's really, really difficult, particularly in technology. Um, and people would have just got jobs before by you know being poached out of the company and they were so sought after they didn't have to do a resume. But it is a really competitive market at the moment, and that's just your first starting point is your resume because it's your first impression. So you want to give off the best first impression possible. And hiring managers, I will tell you now, are being literally looking through resumes with fine-tooth comb because gone are the days where people are saying hire managers doesn't even look at your resume. Trust me, they do because they know it's a candidate-rich market and they know they have their pick of you know who they can get. So they're literally, you know, this is a great time for them to get the best possible person for the role.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. So you said that first one to to kind of like help you filter out CDs is the M-dashes. So the M-dash is just dead giveaway, um emojis, block style, like a long paragraph way of writing the font, not re just like very generic way of saying things, yeah, kind of in line with the job description. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Like, for example, for engineer, you know, maintained and developed, you know, whatever code they were doing. It's like, well, obviously you've done that, you know. But it's like what substance? Like you want to see substance, you want to see something that makes you stand out. And again, using statistics and your key achievements and your individual contribution really uh stands. Now that's across all domains, not just technology as well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And how do you, you know, for me, I do feel bad for recruiters now because I can just imagine the amount of CVs that you actually get. And maybe there are like the advanced people who can use AI better for like one of the prompts is like remove M-dashs. Now, how do you identify top talent in this candidate rich market? And how do you then approach that interview process?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but look for me, I think the source of my candidates, it doesn't usually come from job applications. I think anybody that's recruiting in the engineering or AI space will kind of know that as well. Like the way I find my candidates is, you know, my pipeline, the relationships that I've built over the years, again, attending the network events, getting to know people and kind of, you know, meeting them face to face and having that rapport with them and having that discussion, you know, that they're quite good candidates. Also, we have to headhunt candidates a lot. Good candidates are always going to be in demand. And I've had a lot of clients say to me, Oh, well, Atlassian have let people go. We'll just hire someone from Atlassian. I'm like, okay, go hire someone from Atlassian. Do you know? Because they've done redundancies, but I'm trying to say, you know, that wasn't all engineering. That was like a mix of everything. And good candidates, once they start applying in engineering or AI engineering or whatever it is, they'll always have like a list of five or six offers on the table that they can choose from. So again, it comes back to that relationship building and actually knowing that candidate and knowing your clients so well and knowing that it is going to be a good fit because you're not going to put them forward if it's not a good fit culturally or, you know, if it doesn't align to their aspects. operations. But uh yeah, for me, it's basically I don't I wouldn't kind of spend that long looking through applications. And again, a lot of good candidates aren't actually active in the market. They're more so passive. And so they'll if you give them a call, you know, they'll say, well, what have you got for me? You know, what's it about? What do they do? And blah blah blah. And I think, you know, a lot of people are saying now that I'm I'm hearing a lot of complaints from candidates saying that they'll apply for jobs and that they're just the ATS is just kind of fecking them over really. And you know that they don't believe in the process anymore. And it's kind of just a it's kind of a broken process it seems so yeah I think it's more so like I would say you know I think recruiters are actually really really good and I think they get a lot of bad rep. I don't know why, but I think some of them do. But I think to actually work with a recruiter and have them put your resume before to a client is really good because if I was to get if I was to speak to a candidate and then they send me through a resume and I'm like I'm not putting that forward I'm like you can take the time out to fit to fix that. Here's how you fix it. Here's an example resume send it back to me and I'll review it and then we'll do that and then I'll put it forward and you know this has happened so many times where when I've put resumes when I've received resumes again chat GPT written or just quite poorly written and then I've gone back you know several times with one candidate and just kind of said this is what you need to do and I can't put it forward until then we've only got one shot at put at making this right and and that's happened so many times where that candidate and I've known just because I've known that candidate I know they're good. I've spoken to them on the phone I would have met them previously and and I vouch for them so I know I can put them in front of this client but if the client reads the resume and it's not kind of aligned to what they're looking for, then it's just going to go they're just not going to get that opportunity. So I think yeah it's just so important to just kind of think yourself about what you've done and not rely on AI.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah definitely because you know better about what your experience is as well. What's that say? You you definitely know better about your experience what your actual experience is.

SPEAKER_00

Oh yeah yeah sorry yeah yeah you would exactly that's what I say I'm just like you know you have to kind of think and you should be like right what did I do there? What was I proud of when I you know worked there and responsibilities and what I achieved and AI is not going to know that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah yeah absolutely it's unique to your own experience you know have that storytelling and I also think that you have to be creative if it's a top company that you really want to work at like I don't know send them flowers send them send them a cake a cupcake go go in into their building sometimes it's just that FaceTime as well and that like that ability to showcase there's a company that I would love I would love to work at maybe in the next few months or something but I'm just like I'm gonna I've I've reached out to like their growth person blank and I'm just like thinking I'm gonna Google their HQ like address and send something in that office. But just like if you really want that company and to say the name of it hey are you able to say the name of the company of Dines now are they are they coming to Australia? I think there are signals that there they would be um they would come to Australia like they're building their ambassadors uh in Australia I should really apply to be an ambassador but I like because I I use the product and like I've built so many projects on top of that like I am I've seen their growth as well I have some ties with like the uh the VC accelerator that like they got funding with so I'm just like I would love to work there but either like I would have to move to Europe or wait to get there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah but anyway I'm just like I think that's like you know just even kind of that mindset and how much you love the products and how much you know you've used it like that's great. Why wouldn't they want you to work for them? Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01

We'll see but that's the thing it's that people stop at like the first rejection but if you really really want to work as that company like go all out.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah no absolutely 100% I think even you know going back to your point like face-to-face interviews are so important now I think if you're given the opportunity to do a face-to-face interview over a teams interview do the face to face and I know it's difficult obviously you know if you can't get time off work or whatever or a lot of can a lot of people are working from home now so it's usually they can make it work. What I've seen that the results and the success rates in terms of going for a face-to-face interview in comparison to doing other teams just you can put your personality across you can you know yeah I think it's just about getting like storytelling and getting your personality across showing that you are you know a likable person rather than just getting on a teams call and just kind of going through the regular interview process you know just little things like doing the handshake that you do when you come in and being able to give that eye contact body language actually seeing the office as well and you know there's just so much to it.

SPEAKER_01

So much they say that the data was it's it's seven video calls to one face to face that's the amount of re that's like the speed of rapport building that you get if you meet someone face to face.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly and then even as well you know I've had candidates that have gone in Fridge Fuse face to face and they might have just bumped into the CEO in the in the lobby or I've met the CIO CTO or whatever it is and you know that that person whoever you met can vouch for you as well and like oh that guy seems really cool. That girl seems really great you know so yeah that's another thing I definitely recommend for anyone that is trying to find their next ideal role.

SPEAKER_01

Question if if a candidate asks about work from home in the first meeting or interview is that a red flag?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah yeah I think well I think it depends obviously they depends on how they've gone about the the cut the application so if they if if someone's working with me I will always tell them what the work from home situation is because obviously I'll know that and you know ask the recruiter that are ask the internal talent acquisition. If there's someone else to ask other than the hiring manager ask them you know before you go because also you want to know what the work from home situation is before you dedicate your time and that to actually attending an interview if they don't align to whatever your requirements are. So I'll always tell a candidate before when I speak to them, you know, for example if I have a client that you need to be a Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday and that's just the way it is unfortunately there's no negotiations. This is the way that they are set up and and you know everybody loves a bit of flexibility but this is just what this client is looking to do. And you know they're the one paying at the end of the day. So it's uh you kind of just have to get on board with it. And then there's other clients that are just more flexible and they're happy for someone to come in you know two days a week and that could be whatever and that's fine. But you know I always set those expectations at the start and sometimes when I get a candidate that goes into an interview and they ask about the work from home situation, you know I would have said I've told you this and like it doesn't look good on you. It doesn't look good on me. We've had this conversation I'll confirm it in an email before I represent them for the role and just say this is the requirements because you don't want to get down the track and you know someone's offered the role and then they can't do those specific days and it's like come on like this is this is what I've literally said from the start. So I think don't ask that in an interview I think if there is someone that you can ask that might have screened you for the interview before ask then rather than the hiring manager. Yeah got it got it there you go.

SPEAKER_01

So um thank you for that I think I like I like being in person in office but I think certainly like if you're looking for a role but I guess if you really want that role fine but at the same time if it it weaves out the people who are actually like not that flexible.

SPEAKER_00

So yeah yeah and I think like absolutely I think work from home is a great a great opportunity to have and I think there's so many benefits of it but I just think you know some it depends like it just it's case by case basis. I think some hiring managers can say you know why did they ask me about the work from home situation like they should know that already.

SPEAKER_01

So I think it's just good to you know kind of know your audience I would say yeah yeah definitely and what would you say is one of the things about recruitment and I understand recruitment because it was so emphasized during my early career as sold to HR heads of HR both at CEB in their HR practice and LinkedIn. So really did understand I think most people kind of not value HR but actually it's so costly and so difficult to get it's so difficult to get right. So when it comes to um hiring recruitment onboarding um we talked about like the cost of hiring the wrong person and the onboarding mistakes and obviously like offboarding and then hiring a new person and training again. Can you tell us a little bit on how you help prevent that?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah yeah absolutely so I think you know again it kind of comes back to the type of company that you're working with. So I would work with a range of different companies from your pre-seed startups up to Series A. So a lot kind of more established a little bit more mature up to your kind of larger enterprises and um like companies that are you know well established they'll have HOR and they'll have those really kind of streamlined onboarding processes. So I think looking at like your pre-seed startup you'd have like a founder or two founders and it's chaotic and it's just really really important to continue to emphasize the founders that you're working with. This kind of goes from all startups just say you know that you need to get your first hire is very very critical or your first few hires are very critical in this stage. I was reading a Seek survey from February and it said that the cost of actually getting the a higher will hire wrong for a small medium enterprise is around 16 to 18 grand. So like that's the cost of getting it incorrect you know and you could what they what companies could do at this stage is they can hire someone and they could be the best person for the job. But again if the onboard process they've not implemented a smooth and streamlined onboard process the kind they can get in and be like wow this price is a bit less you know what's happening here I wasn't you know wasn't given my laptop on the first day I wasn't having my user logins or wasn't able for them able to work for the first two or three days because my tech wasn't working and then they have like the pressure on them of being able to deliver but the tech's not working and just kind of having that like streamlined process and and then you know from series like for a kind of more mature company from series A whatever you'll see that companies have started to implement uh people in culture or they've brought in a HR person and then that the their requirement is just kind of to streamline the process a bit more. But again like I do see it when you know there's so much to do and like a candidates come in on day one and they're just thrown completely the deep end and that's you know definitely uh communicate to them that it is a fast-paced environment and so on. But I think you know you also need to be respectful of you know and understand where the candidates are coming from in on the first day. I think you know looking at something like a buddy system is really good just to make sure they're getting that continuous feedback that you know people coming in that like they want to do well you know they want the majority of people want to be set up for a success. This is the career you know so it's good to you know implement things like a one-on-one every month or just kind of get that constructive feedback from candidates as well because you you know they obviously want to come in and succeed but you're just you're as the company is liable to set them up for a success for as well as the the candidate is you know so yeah just having those conversations day in day out and just reminding clients that you know you need to do your job too in this sense and you know a lot of companies are really good for that but I think a lot of um companies with that kind of start up scale up phase more so struggle with it whereas companies that are definitely like more mature they've seen they know the ropes they know how it works and they've learned from the mistakes and so on. But again the market keeps changing so it's just up to people like myself to continuously to have those conversations with them to you know say this is where the market's at this is what candidates want this is what they don't want and letting them go from there.

SPEAKER_01

Huge uh yeah having a great onboarding that it's smooth it's like ready to go the amount of times that I've heard people like I guess like complain like they go into this really nice well paid job and then they get into the company and it's like I don't know who to ask about XYZ this system, this data system that I need to use is not set up like the tools are not set up. So you're paying for a world class talent have the world class like process after that to take care of and make sure that they stay as well.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly yeah yeah and you know again it comes back to the point that a lot of these kind of top tier candidates they're always going to have people approach them for roles as well so if you've gone through all that you know effort to get them in the door to do the interviews to you know finish the process and actually have them in the doors get the paper signed you know you want to keep them you know and it's your job now to retain that best talent and kind of get that you build that relationship build that trust with them as well and that's where you find most people are just so happy in their workplaces when they know that their employer values them and trusts them and it makes them want to stay. Yeah yeah absolutely that that's great to hear and would you say that um the kind of companies that you work for you mentioned earlier they're typically startups and scale ups and would you work with pre-seed founders yeah or usually yeah okay okay yeah so a lot of pre-seed founders and you're gonna see it's quite chaotic because they are grown at some of them will be grown at quite a rapid rate and they just don't that's like a really difficult thing for them guys because they just don't it seems like they don't have the time or the resources or whatever it is just to kind of like you know or I mean sorry just to get cadets booked in for an interview and because they've got so much else going on and I think it's you know I actually really enjoy working with those those companies just because they do really value you and they know you know you know your stuff and you know I've worked with companies that have been pre seed and now they're like series A they've been listed on the IPO they've moved over to the US they're in San Fran and like that's just really really great to see and you'll always kind of open up your LinkedIn or the news and you'll see really cool stuff about you know what they've achieved. You're just thinking that's great. I've actually worked with them. And then obviously like as they grow they'll probably get HR implemented and or they're growing overseas so yeah sometimes you don't continue to work with them but it's just actually you know actually been able to say oh I've actually you know grow grew their team which is really cool.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah I know that's amazing and great to hear it as well because especially like when they're growing just different different things are needed. So that's that's very inspiring to hear. Now I wanted to ask you you've been um you've been in finance before which is amazing. I want to quickly touch on that what would you say uh did you work with the accumulators or the so I was actually doing underwriting at a captives bank previously at home and then I done my qualified financial advisor exams so wasn't actually doing the financial advice side side of things when I was working okay well from studying that and from being exposed to that environment what would be your top advice for I guess like women trying to build their wealth?

SPEAKER_00

What's a good industry to go to okay yeah so yeah in terms of what I do I think that in t to build my wealth I've just become very focused on it really in just this year really which is probably isn't great but I think you know before I was all about live your life and travel and just enjoy your time here as well I came over when I was 24 so I was quite young and you know you're moving immigrating country so you have to set yourself up you have to pay for visas there's a lot of cost when you're moving country and like you're only you can only work in specific companies you can't actually when you're on a work in Halloween visa you can't work for a company for longer than six months which I'm sure sure people may that might be listening probably would have experienced as well. So it's hard to kind of find your feet and to be honest that's how I got into recruitment because when I was doing underwriting and I'd studied finance at home I couldn't actually get sponsored or get a visa in that role in Australia because the legislation and the tax and everything was so different. So they didn't actually stand to me over here. And then I was actually working for NAB trade so the investment platform before I got into recruitment and then I got into recruitment so I could get sponsored really and now I've just put I put through my permanent residency so I'm waiting on that. So in the last year or so I've definitely kind of looked into and educated myself listened to podcasts like this around how to upscale and kind of build that long term wealth. So I've been in the I've opened my Comsec account my comsec international trading account I've been investing in ETFs I've been speaking to people in that space and just seeing you know what are good ETFs to invest in. We all probably know there's no cheap code to get rich so it's that kind of long-term gain and that compound building that compound return that compound interest again like recruitment is a good space to look to save money if you're doing good you know you get quite good commission. So I got a few good commission checks as well so I've just literally learned old me would have just booked a flight to Europe and just lived my best life and drank Amprosperits but now I'm like I put all my commission away and it's money that I don't have and I'll invest in it and I'll invest that commission check or I have also looked into buying an investment property as well. So I've spoken to a mortgage broker around that and I would love to get on the property market. It's scary because I would be doing it myself and you need all that kind of you know discretionary you need more discretionary income if something goes wrong with the property or whatever. So it's a bit of a scary subject it's a kind of a bit of a scary thing for me to go for but I do have it on my list that it is something I want to do is get an investment property. But I need to wait on my PR to come through. So I just think like the advice I would give is definitely like budget yourself. I didn't do that before and now I've started to do it and when you actually see your balance go up and you kind of you're working towards that financial freedom or just that like independence that you have as a woman as well and knowing that no matter what happens that you're able to look after yourself. I think it's you know moving over from Ireland has definitely taught me that as well and you know not really having anything to fall back on. So I just think it's so important to just do your research open that Comsec account even if it's Vanguard just invest in whatever ETF that you can something simple that's going to give you a good return on investment long term.

SPEAKER_01

And yeah just do your research. I love it Shauna that's amazing advice and um love that invest in properties in your bucket to what to do in the future definitely can talk to you about that. I've bought a few myself yeah so I'm happy to talk about that maybe on a separate time but now final question what is something that you'd stock telling young women in tech debt I would tell them be confident back yourself.

SPEAKER_00

Like it's just so important that like there's such a like the gender pay gap to just put it into perspective of the moment is actually 21.1% so that is a pay gap in terms of what women get less than men. So for every dollar that a man earns a woman earns 79 cents which actually equates to like 28 29 grand per year. So it's important to in order to close that I think there's been a lot of noise there's been a lot of kind of advocacy for it but there's been no execution and to be honest it's actually continuing to get worse instead of better. So I think the main thing that I would tell women in tech or women in the workforce is just to back yourself. And you know you've got every right to be in the room just as much as anyone else and you know the majority companies are really like on board and they will be very supportive and so on. But unfortunately there's a lot particularly in technology that aren't because it is so heavily male dominated. And yeah I think it's just important to tell them that you know they deserve to be in that room that they need to do their research and salaries as well you know look and really kind of do your due diligence in terms of what different what candidates in your market are getting both male and female and I think it's a thing you know around finance yourself you probably know that it's good for women to speak about their salaries and talk about what they're on and it shouldn't be such a taboo subject because I see it myself I'll speak to a female engineer and I'll say what are you after and I'm like wow she's great how is she only on this much you know and then I'll tell them I'm like no you should be on more than this and don't accept less than that. And so for some reason it's just like they don't actually have females seem to not have as much kind of confidence or back in themselves when they're actually talking around salaries or you know what their experience is and you know no dis and like men or anything like that. Just the way it is it seems to be that they have no problem kind of going in and being able to tell everything that they've done, being really confident what maybe it's because of the fact that um you know it is heavily male dominated that women might initially or naturally just feel a little bit less confident and then they're not able to kind of you know be as confident in asking for pay rises or you know went in the interview process and really able to sell themselves. So I think it's just about telling them you know be confident and that you deserve to be in the room.

SPEAKER_01

Perfect. And also to negotiate. I think that's what you were saying as well.

SPEAKER_00

Definitely negotiate do your research yeah definitely honestly I feel like when you're in recruitment or sales or whatever it is you kind of just negotiate on everything. So it comes so naturally to you but yeah like sometimes I forget it doesn't come that naturally to obviously candidates that you're working with but always negotiate on salary and you don't want to do it in a way because I've seen it backfire before as well where candidates come across you know they're they're like I want 30k extra pay rise you know you have to be realistic as well and always trust like the person that you're working if it's a recruiter like trust them and telling them what you're on because a lot of candidates will say I don't want to tell you what I'm on like well look if you can't you know trust me then I'm not trying to pull the bull over your eyes but you'll always you you want to kind of have that discussion around salaries because if you're going too under or too over it's probably just not going to stand to you because the client's always going to ask like you know or want to know like the the pay scale that they're on previously and yeah a lot of people just aren't really kind of out to get you is what I'm trying to say. So just work with them and yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Beautiful well words of wisdom I love it. Thank you Shauna for your time and your words of wisdom this is amazing. I think I'm gonna get I'm gonna get so much value from this and so will the audience. Yeah thank you so much. Thank you so much. It's been so fun I've really really enjoyed it I really enjoyed it I'm gonna stop this now thank you for listening to another episode of Fiery Fans if this resonated check with a woman in your life because we rise higher when we rise together. Don't forget to follow and review it helps more women access the tools and conversations that build wealth and confidence for more career and financial empowerment on hangout on Instagram and YouTube at FieryFans and I'll see you in the next episode.

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Shauna O'Reilly

Co-host