Are these numbers right?

In this episode we pull back the curtain on donor advised funds to ask a sharper question: if assets are allocated but not activated, have we truly surrendered them to God’s purposes? With billions of dollars sitting in DAFs and urgent needs multiplying, we explore the tension between smart planning and delayed impact.

Throughout the conversation we break down the core mechanics of DAFs, from why givers use them to the real advantages for non-cash gifts and tax efficiency. Then we tackle the metrics. We explore the statistics around DAFs and what these numbers represent. We also step back to see what information might be missing and what false assumptions we might be bringing to the table. 

If you’ve wondered whether DAFs are parking lots or highways for charity, this conversation offers both clarity and challenge. 

Links from episode:

DAF Research Collaborative Report

Idle Treasure is sponsored by the Center for Financial Discipleship.

Idle Treasure is sponsored by the Center for Financial Discipleship.

Transcript

What Counts As Giving

Speaker 0:00

Many financial advisers would use the language saying that these people have given those assets to charity. I would say not yet. And as Christians, I think we need to be crystal clear about this because this giving is not yet in loving service of our neighbors. The Apostle Paul says, if I give away all that I have but do not have love, I gain nothing. And what the modern landscape of donor advised funds and private foundations enables is for this to become a legal reality. It's possible to give wealth to one of these vehicles, take the tax cut, and then hoard the money there. And I think we need the moral and spiritual clarity to say that this is not yet Christian faithfulness. Unless the assets are activated, whether through philanthropy or through impact investing in companies that have a kingdom mission, a person with assets in a donor advice fund has not yet surrendered those assets to God's love and God's kingdom and God's authority.

Speaker 3 1:03

In today's episode, we'll dive into the numbers that lie beneath the billions of dollars that are sitting in donor advised funds. We'll explore what these numbers represent, what information might be missing, and we'll ask what false assumptions might we be bringing to the table. Let's get ready. But it led me on a journey to discover what really lies beneath this number. Some Christians say there isn't a problem. Others are frustrated by the amount of charitable assets not getting deployed. But this story isn't just about donor advice funds. It is about you and me. This is a story about how our culture has shaped the way Christians behave with money. It's a story about the goodness of wealth and the weight of responsibility we feel to steward at wealth. It's a story about the vulnerable reasons why we often keep money to ourselves. And it's about the opportunity of a moment. Journey with me as we seek the answer. How should Christians respond to this idle treasure?

Framing The DAF Question

Speaker 3 2:55

In the fall of 2025, I gave a sermon about the rich young ruler. It was an intense conversation about the barrier money often becomes to our willingness to follow Christ. During the talk, I wanted to lighten the mood and poke fun at myself a little bit. So I shared this story. I remember back when this was all still very new to me. And I would still find myself constantly getting fixated on buying new things. And so one day I come home and I tell my husband that I want a new purse. The one that I had was too small. I couldn't fit my lunch in it. And I was tired of carrying my super random little plastic grocery bags. I want a bigger purse. I don't want any purse. I want a $1,500 designer purse. And my husband, who is so sweet, said yes. And so we go to the store and we pick out this bag, and I'm carrying it like it's this delicate child. And I instantly start stressing over keeping this thing clean and nice and looking so beautiful. And you know what I quickly discovered? When you spend $1,500 on a purse, you don't want to put soup in it. The story was a huge hit, and it accomplished what I intended, but it also created a really interesting dialogue. For the next few months, it seemed like everyone I encountered wanted to talk to me about this purse. Some made comments like, I couldn't fathom spending $300 on a handbag, let alone $1,500. While others said, fifteen hundred dollars for a designer purse? That's a great deal. My point in sharing this story as we begin today's conversation is to recognize that everyone responds differently to financial numbers. The culture you grew up in, the adults who raised you, the generation

Money Stories Shape Our Views

Speaker 3 4:50

you were born, your income level, your faith background, and your personal life experiences all mesh together to inform how you think and behave with money. So we could gather a group of a thousand or even ten thousand Christians and ask them a variety of questions pertaining to money, things like lifestyle choices and giving and retirement goals, and no doubt we would receive a wide variety of answers. Currently, the amount in Donor Advised Funds is over $325 billion. Most people hear the number $325 billion and begin forming an opinion. As we search for the Christian response to the money currently in donor advised funds, we have to ask ourselves, what do these numbers represent? What information might be missing? And are there any false assumptions we have? We also need to have an awareness that not everyone reacts the same way to these numbers. When looking at the amount of charitable assets sitting in donor advised funds, some Christians say there isn't a problem, while others are deeply upset by the amount of money sitting idle. Our goal is not to evaluate who is right and who is wrong. Our goal is to begin laying the foundation that can lead to healthy, vulnerable dialogue around giving and the Christian walk. Now, I'll issue a short disclaimer. If you're someone who loves numbers, you're gonna really enjoy this episode. If calculations and statistics aren't your thing, well stick with me, and I promise to keep our conversation as engaging as possible. These numbers are gonna reveal a lot and help us keep perspective throughout this series. So let's begin by breaking down who uses donor advice funds and why.

Speaker 6:35

So we use DAFs as an organization. We often recommend DAFs to our clients if they don't currently use one. I actually use one to manage my own personal giving.

Speaker 3 6:47

This is Brian Grasso, CEO of Simple Charity. Brian's story is an interesting one. After raising $60,000 for the global poor with a group of friends in high school, Brian learned that half of those funds went to a charity that may have misused the money. Rather than getting discouraged, he went on to

Who Uses DAFs And Why

Speaker 3 7:07

Duke to learn how to translate passion for a cause into effective action. He graduated magna cum laude with degrees in Economics and Global Health and then transitioned Simple Charity from a high school club into a thriving nonprofit that supports over 40 college chapters around the country, helping college students grow in their faith and solidarity with people experiencing poverty and injustice. Brian and his team also offer philanthropic advising for individuals, families, and institutions who want help creating effective giving strategies.

Speaker 7:43

I think everyone who is serious about giving should utilize a donor advised fund. They enable you to keep track of all of your charitable giving in one user-friendly interface. They save you time during tax season. They offer tax-efficient ways to give non-cash assets like stocks, mutual funds, or real estate. Donor advised funds are super convenient tools. They will certainly save you time. If you are serious about your giving and you don't have one yet, they will certainly save you time. And depending on your situation, they could also save you money in taxes.

Speaker 3 8:21

Brian just hit on many key benefits of donor advice funds. They are simple to open and easy to operate. They make giving to multiple charities less complicated and they offer tax-efficient ways to give non-cash assets. In short, for the person serious about their giving, as Brian puts it, DAFs can save you time and money. As I was interviewing industry experts across the spectrum, from financial advisors to biblical scholars, many of the people I encountered engage with DAFs directly as a tool for their own personal giving as well as for their business or ministry endeavors. So there's quite a variety of people who use DAFs and the way in which they use them can be vastly different. When we think about the billions of dollars in donor advice funds, it's helpful to recognize who is represented in this number. Business owners, ministry leaders, and young inheritors are found in this number. We find Christians and non-Christians in this number. We find the multimillionaire investor and the everyday steward in this number. We find people who are on fire for the Lord, and we find people who are struggling to connect with God represented in this number. When I started taking steps to learn what really lies beneath the large numbers associated with DAFs, I was met with a lot of nuance and not a lot of defining black and white numbers like I was craving. We'll address some of those nuances in a moment, but first, let's begin by examining a few numbers that we do know. Please note, the numbers I'm about to share are from the latest data which analyzed DAF activity in 2024. But these numbers will continue to evolve. So as you're listening, I'd encourage you to look up the most recent numbers found in the Donor Advised Fund Research Collaborative. I'll include a link in the show notes. So here's where we're starting. Currently, there are over 3.5 million open donor advice fund accounts being managed by nearly 1,500 different DAF sponsors. And the average account holds over $90,000. As I was researching the amount of assets in donor advice funds, I started hearing many people talk about payout rates. And for that, we'll turn back to Brian.

Speaker 10:47

So the average payout rate for donor-advised funds in this country is 24%. That means that in a given year, DAF clients disperse on average 24% of the previous year's net assets to churches and to charities. This average of 24% is that it's an average of, you know, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people who use these tools. And so I want to break this down into three different ways that people use donor-advised funds. So the first is what I would call 100%ers. So these are people who disperse 100% of their donor-advised fund balance every year, or maybe every other year if they're using a bunching strategy, which is where you give two years worth of charitable gifts in one year, you can itemize that, so you save on your taxes, and then you disperse it over two years. So, but in general, it's it's in and out it's a tool that you're using to give, and you're giving 100%. In

Benefits And Tradeoffs Of DAFs

Speaker 11:51

this case, the DAF helps these givers stay organized, and obviously those 100%ers are helping to bring the average DAF payout rate up significantly. Second category people are people we might call active managers. So these are people who are giving every year and they're making grants from their DAF, but they are also still maintaining the donor advised fund balance. Maybe they sold a business and had a really large lump sum that goes into the fund and they're dispersing it over time. Maybe they're just adding some to the fund, sending some out, but they're actively managing, maybe they're investing those assets in impact investing opportunities, they're they're engaged in their giving, in their philanthropy, and they're doing it over time. And then the third category of people who use these tools are people who I'd call zero percenters. So the zero percenters allocate wealth to a donor-advised fund and leave it there, sometimes for years and years.

Speaker 3 12:55

The average payout rate has grown slightly since I last spoke with Brian. It's now just over 25%. And it's reflected, as Brian illustrates, as a combination of people. Some who distribute 100% of their DAF each year, some who perhaps put a very large sum into their DAF and are slowly distributing that money over time. And then there are the people who distribute hardly any funds out of their DAF. Those second and third categories of DAF users have a significant impact on the seemingly low distribution rate of donor advice funds. As more money accumulates in DAFs over time, the lower the payout rate becomes. Now let's introduce some of the nuance within these numbers. For one, there isn't an indicator of how much of the money stored in DAFs is liquid, meaning something that can quickly be turned into cash. Donor advised funds are a popular giving tool for people who want to give away real estate, business assets, or even valuable objects like art. These are non-liquid assets that people can place within a DAF, which means the DAF can represent the value of the item, but the money is not readily available to give away today. The people I spoke to who adamantly defended the amount currently in DAFs pointed to the nuance of non-liquid assets within donor advice funds, essentially to say we can't know for sure how much of that $325 billion figure are readily available to give to charity. Interestingly, when I spoke to Kendra Van der Meulen, CEO of National Christian Foundation, she guessed the number of non-liquid assets in DAFS is pretty low because the majority of DAF sponsors sell the assets quickly to use the cash proceeds. But again, we can only guess. There isn't a way to know for sure. Adding more nuance into our conversation are the specific ways people use donor advice funds. As mentioned a moment ago, there are multimillionaires represented in this number as well as your everyday steward. The people who may not have a ton of money to give away, but they do enough giving throughout the year to capitalize on the benefits of DAFs. Again, the people who defended the accumulated assets and donor advice funds would have us consider the wealthy business owner who has a heart for generosity, may have sold their company for millions and millions of dollars and put that money into a donor advice fund. They would likely be giving that money away slowly over a long period of time. So once again, it's unclear how many of those scenarios are represented in the current amount in donor advised funds, but it's certainly an important factor to take into consideration. One more layer of nuance we'll add for the moment is the concept of impact investing. Impact investing has been gaining momentum in the Christian generosity space. It's a specific type of investing that allows people to allocate funds to companies who are striving to make a positive difference in the world by addressing specific social challenges. Now people can use their donor advice funds for impact investing, which means people may be opening DAF accounts with the intended purpose not to deploy the funds by giving them, but to put the money to work through active investments. There's been some really interesting discussions happening around impact investing, and we won't get too deep into the details here. But throughout our time together,

Payout Rates And User Types

Speaker 3 16:20

you may hear people mention impact investing, so I wanted to bring it to your attention. So to recap, it's not entirely clear how much of the money being held in DAFs is liquid. It's not clear how many DAF accounts have been funded with multi-million dollar buyouts. And it's not clear how much of the money represented is currently being used for impact investing. Now let's turn our attention briefly to flow rates. Flow rates are calculated slightly differently than payout rates. Hang with me here. While payout rates account for all existing assets under management at the beginning of the period, the flow rate only calculates the amount of money put in and taken out in that same period. To calculate the flow rate, you would take the distributions divided by the contributions in a given year. With this calculation, assets under management are not taken into account. When you look at deaf flow rates compared to payout rates, flow rates are typically much higher. Let's use National Christian Foundation as an example. Their payout rate in 2024 was 56%, but their flow rate was 85%, which means 85% of the charitable assets they received in 2024 were also granted back out to nonprofits. I want to highlight flow rates for a moment because although we could look at the current balance in DAFs and we might say, yeah, there is a problem here, we should also acknowledge that DAFs are functioning for many people the way they were intended. Not as parking lots, but as highways, delivering money to charities in tax-efficient ways. It's in the funds that are slowly accumulating over time where we need to exercise caution. The total charitable assets in DAFs grew last year by 27.5%. Looking back at the last five years and the amount in DAFs has almost doubled. What will happen if this trend continues?

Speaker 18:25

Now, many financial advisors would use the language saying that these people have given those assets to charity. I would say not yet. And as Christians, I think we need to be crystal clear about this. Because this giving is not yet in loving service of our neighbors. I don't actually believe there's treasure in heaven for those who allocate assets to a deaf, but do not disperse those assets. And in the Sermon on the Mount, the way he puts it is, whatever you would like others to do to you, do that also to them. I think generosity is one way we obey this teaching using our money. And if I was in modern-day slavery, I would want someone to come rescue me. If I was homeless, I would want to be able to sleep in a shelter during a snowstorm. If I was experiencing famine, I would want someone to bring me food. And philanthropists actually have the agency to fund these kinds of impact. You know, the Apostle Paul says, if I give away all that I have, but do not have love, I gain nothing. And what the modern landscape of donor advice funds and private foundations enables is for this to become a legal reality. It's possible to give wealth to one of these vehicles, take the tax cut, and then forge the money there. I think we need the moral and spiritual clarity to say that this is not yet Christian faithfulness. Unless the assets are activated, whether through philanthropy or through impact investing in companies that have a kingdom mission, a person with assets in a donor advised fund has not yet surrendered those assets to God's love and God's kingdom and God's authority.

Speaker 3 20:21

And it dawns on me that there's another set of numbers we should bring into the fold. Because this story isn't simply about those who use a donor advice fund. This story is about the millions of people suffering around the world and the opportunities that exist to shine God's love. There are an estimated 50 million people currently in modern slavery. Around the world, 25,000 people die every day from hunger and preventable diseases. 10,000 of those are children. Over 700,000 people in America are experiencing homelessness. And over 40% of the global population is unreached, meaning they have little to

The Nuance: Liquidity And Impact

Speaker 3 21:05

no access to the gospel. These statistics are a harsh contrast to the trillions of dollars in charitable assets currently being held in donor advised funds and private foundations. And there's one more unclear question we should mention. How much of this money is currently being controlled by Christians? It's certainly not an easy number to come by, but Brian has an idea. You could purchase every team in the NFL, or you could purchase the entire Ivy League. I hear these statistics and I have to wonder, as Christians, what would our world look like if we took Christ's call to serve and love the poor seriously?

Speaker 4 22:17

Well, I was a little surprised to learn how much money sits in donor advised funds right now. I didn't realize this. I thought initially our heart was to give the money away. We wanted to be generous and we wanted to follow the promptings of the Holy Spirit, and we wanted to go meet the needs on the street of where Jesus' hands and feet are every single day to go reach people with his love. So our instincts on starting a donor advice fund was to pool the resources to go meet those needs, as opposed to just shot-gunning out small denominations all over the place. We could just let it grow until we could overcome an obstacle and then go deploy the money to go overcome that obstacle or meet that opportunity. It wasn't going to be a long-term holding tank or a tax solution for us. That was never the plan. So when I started to learn about how much money is sitting in donor advice funds, it kind of blew my mind.

Speaker 3 23:42

And they called it the Tithe Foundation. Now, Mark isn't the kind of guy to do things under the radar. When he quit his job to start an overtly Christian company and promised to give 10% of revenue to kingdom causes, a lot of people took notice. But people weren't simply watching from the sidelines. They were asking to participate. Mark started to receive a steady flow of messages from other business owners asking how they could join in.

Speaker 4 24:11

Yeah, so Tithe Foundation has morphed from one company, Tithe Lending, who needed somewhere to hold our donations from our business into a whole different kind of ball of wax where other we've now up to 33 official financial partners where they've signed a tithing pledge dedicating their business to the Lord and at least 10% of their profits to Kingdom Causes.

Speaker 3 24:38

Mark is what some would categorize as a hundred percenter, meaning he regularly brings his DAF account down to nearly zero dollars.

Speaker 4 24:46

Our DAF it empties out every quarter. The money pools up and then it almost goes to zero every 90 days. So what we have in we give. And depending on the size of the account, it just that depends on the size of the obstacle or opportunity that we can go overcome or meet. And our partners know that, and our nonprofit partners who are applying for grants through our website understand that. But every quarter it goes down to near zero because we want to go let those funds flow and let the Holy Spirit go do his thing and build God's kingdom with the money.

Speaker 3 25:19

When I think about Mark and his team, I think about a city on a hill whose light cannot be hidden. Generosity attracts generosity. People naturally want to be around other people who are focused on shining God's light. Mark and his team now hold quarterly grant nights, usually with packed-out rooms, where their business partners can learn about the tangible needs around their city and distribute grants. The cool thing is it doesn't stop there. As our partners learn about the local needs, many of them start to personally volunteer and get involved. Mark once told me that

Flow Rates Versus Payout Rates

Speaker 3 25:55

Jesus is the realest person in his life. I think his giving is proof of that.

Speaker 4 26:01

How cool is it that we serve a God who as the technology advances and the you know financial frameworks advance that he creates things like this for us to participate in and through. So as the world becomes more complex, you know, whether it's giving, whether it's earning, whatever it is, taxes, I mean, there's the this world's crazy world. He creates such something as beautiful as donor advise funds to remove the complexity and allow us to be generous. And um instead of focusing on all the dotting of the I's and crossing of the T's, we get to focus on the nonprofits and the charities and the work that Jesus gets to do. It's pretty awesome. You know, so the fact that he gave this idea to the guys who constructed it far before you know our modern day and then right now, how useful this tool is to all of us. Just praise God that he's he's that good and gives us these tools to love him with.

Speaker 3 27:01

For people like Brian and Mark, this conversation isn't simply about convincing people to give more money away, it's about establishing the credibility of our witness to Christ and loving others well.

Speaker 27:21

We talk a lot about love. We use that word, that language, I think it's the most powerful word. I think that whatever segment of culture, whatever demographic loves the most radically, the most credibly, that is the group of people who are going to have the most cultural influence. So I think the extent to which the church can be a light, a city on a hill, and how we love our neighbors, I think that's going to determine our long-term credibility of our witness and the cultural influence that we have.

Speaker 3 28:09

But we only have a short time on earth to live for him.

Speaker 4 28:14

The crazy thing is, I can't throw any stones because for the majority of my life I was not living generously. I wasn't, I didn't understand it. Jesus hadn't taken control of my heart yet. So the people who have money sitting in DAFs probably are far better people than me. They're so close. Like I feel like they're right there. Like they probably love Jesus. They've put the money aside, they're not using it for themselves. They're probably unbelievably great people. I think what the only thing that I would say of encouraging them is just when you have the money sitting on the sidelines, like we're running out of time. You've already decided to be generous, your heart's probably already in the right place. Probably an amazing person that loves God. It's just we're running out of time, and the money needs to get deployed. Because the urgency around getting people the love of Jesus, I don't think it'd be any higher than right now.

Speaker 3 29:02

As a financial counselor, I recognize the call to love is very pure and simple, and yet people are very complicated. Money does something funny to us. It does something funny to how we relate to one another and even how we relate to God. In the upcoming episodes, we're gonna look deeper into the reasons why Christians often find it difficult to give. We'll identify the cultural influences that often determine our behavior with

Love, Urgency, And Idle Funds

Speaker 3 29:30

money, and we'll discuss the root causes of the money anxiety running rampant in the West. We'll also address the practical difficulties of passing on wealth to the next generation and why giving to charity can sometimes prove challenging. A friend once told me, behind every number is a story. And when I look at the amount of money laying idle, I see a lot of untold stories. When we talk about donor advice funds, many people express a deep desire to see more stories like Mark's. Stories with risk and sacrificial giving and loving others well and inviting others to join in. But we also need to hold space and recognize that not everyone's journey will look exactly the same. Many people see the $2 trillion of stored charitable assets within DAFs and foundations as a sounding alarm that something is deeply wrong. There's a temptation to cast judgment or pass blame. There's a temptation to assume that we know best. There's a temptation to forget the real people who are behind these numbers. We live in a time where the slightest tension can create major discord within the body of Christ. So I want to be clear: this is not an attempt to win an argument. This is an invitation for us all to collectively draw closer to Jesus. It's an opportunity to see one another, not as wealthy or poor, stingy or generous, righteous or unrighteous, but to see one another as neighbors.

Speaker 2 31:22

Sometimes it's easier to jump to conclusions than walk across the street. It's like I'd rather fill the blanks with illusions than take the time to see. You are trying to close the back door of your car. You are balancing the groceries and a baby in your arms. You are more than just a sign in your front yard. You are my neighbor.

Speaker 3 32:05

Thank you for listening to Idle Treasure. Special thanks to Brian Grasso and Mark Greaves. Our closing song is Neighbor by J.J. Heller. Tune in next week for episode number three, Anxiety and the American Gospel.

Speaker 2 32:33

Just behind the screen.