Idle Treasure: a Christian response to the wealth sitting in donor advised funds

Bonus Episode with Randy Alcorn

• Courtney Markley • Season 1 • Episode 8

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In this episode we sit down with best-selling author Randy Alcorn to talk about the money accumulating in DAFs and private foundations. Randy argues that God rewards implemented choices, not stored intentions, and he challenges us to think practically about "good works." Along the way, we explore stewardship, spiritual warfare, and why mammon remains a live threat even for sincere Christians.

Randy also addresses several practical questions about giving charitable assets. Questions like: how long is too long to keep money in a DAF, what to do when you can’t find one organization with capacity for a large gift, and whether it’s wise to preserve the principal. Then we turn to family questions, including inheritance and legacy building. Randy closes with stories that bring the whole conversation back to joy, eternity, and the kind of generosity you never regret.

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Idle Treasure is sponsored by the Center for Financial Discipleship.

Why Idle Charitable Cash Matters

Speaker 3

In today's episode, we'll hear from best-selling author Randy Alcorn. Randy is perhaps best known for helping Christians better understand how to live like Christians with their money. Two of his popular books, Money, Possessions, and Eternity and the Treasure Principle, have changed countless lives, and Randy considers that a miracle from God. Randy was eager to share his views on the money accumulating in DAFs and private foundations. In this conversation, we'll address common questions Christians have around giving charitable assets. Questions like, what if I can't find a charity with capacity to receive a large gift? How long should I keep money in a DAF or a foundation? Should I be spending down the principal? Should I leave a large inheritance to my children? We'll tackle these and much more. And remember, our conversation may be about DAFs and foundations, but it is also about the Christian walk and how Jesus changes our view of money. So you don't need to have a lot of money to benefit from Randy's advice. This is a message I believe we all need to hear, so let's lean in.

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One day I'll make it.

Speaker 3

Some Christians say there isn't a problem. Others are frustrated by the amount of charitable assets not getting deployed. But this story isn't just about donor advised funds. It is about you and me. This is a story about how our culture has shaped the way Christians behave with money. It's a story about the goodness of wealth and the weight of responsibility we feel to steward it wealth. It's a story about the vulnerable reasons why we often keep money to ourselves. And it's about the opportunity of a moment. Journey with me as we seek the answer. How should Christians respond to this idle treasure? I began by asking Randy what his initial reactions were to the amount of money accumulating in donor advised funds.

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But part of me is almost outraged. It just seems so counterintuitive. What happened in our structure that allowed people to have the illusion that they have given when they haven't given? They've parted with it, so they've done what you think of as giving. It's something that they can never get back, but they still have control over it. They still have control uh where it goes when it goes out. And uh that's fine for 30 days. Maybe it's okay for 90 days. It's certainly not in my mind okay for a year given the the extent of world need, given the fact that Jesus could return anytime, and when he returns, everything will come to nothing. I mean, all of that is rust and dust and maw, you know, moths and everything else, fire, it's it's all burned up, uh, never to be used for God's kingdom, but it could have been used for God's kingdom, and ironically, it was designated for use in God's kingdom, yet not implemented, not distributed to God's kingdom. And of course, I don't believe we'll be rewarded for what we stored up with the thought that eventually it would go to God's kingdom. He'll reward us for what we actually not only part with, and

The Illusion Of Giving

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I used to just say part with, because that's all you had to say, right? Because when you give, you part with it. But this is like a part with it but keep it. It's it's it's some of both. To me, it's it's an illusion, and I don't want to go overboard with it like oh, the whole thing with donor advised funds is of the devil, because of course it can be well used for God's kingdom, and we both know people who are using it well, those well for God's kingdom, but it feels like the devil would was not content to let us, you know, it's like he'll get in even this, where people say, I'm giving this to God's kingdom, except not really, because it's not in God's kingdom yet. And as long as it's not there, I mean God does not reward us for our good intentions, God rewards us for our choices, implemented choices, real choices in space-time history. I have really given because people are now receiving what I have given them.

Speaker 3

Randy is narrowing in on one of the main issues to the DAF dilemma. People can have the illusion of giving without actually helping anyone. He speaks to a deception happening, alluding to spiritual warfare, and it makes me wonder how many deaf users have fallen for a lie. There are currently $325 billion in donor advised funds, which, as Randy points out, it is nearly impossible for us to wrap our minds around such a large number.

Speaker 4

So when you talk about billions, reminds me when I was a kid, my hobby was astronomy. Everything I was looking at through my telescope was spoken of in terms of light years. How many light years away is this? And so you go, well, this is four light years away. And then you go, okay, not only can we not begin to comprehend a light year, we can't comprehend a light second. 186,000 miles. Okay, so now when we're talking about hundreds of billions of dollars, we don't even comprehend it. We I mean, I there was a time when most people could not wrap their uh minds around one million. Now the average person making minimum wage uh can uh earn more than a million dollars in their lifetime. They never feel like they did, but they do. Uh so we can rack our wrap our minds around a million. Okay, maybe ten million. Hundred million? For most of us, I don't know that we can do that, but for sure, once you get past 100 million, you're not even really thinking in terms of reality. Now, is it a thousand millions in a billion? I think that's right. Okay, so now multiply those thousand millions and one billion by three hundred and twenty-five, it's outlandish. So all we know when we hear 325 billion is the same thing we would think when we hear one billion or half a billion. It's just it's it's an incomprehensible figure to us. But that works against us because if we really knew how much that was, it's like if somebody said, Um, I lost a dollar the other day, you'd think, why did you even mention it? Right? Um, it fell out of my

Billions We Cannot Picture

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wallet. But if it was a hundred dollars, we'd go, hmm, wow, that's that's significant. It was a thousand dollars, we'd go, Whoa, that's a big loss. But this is beyond comprehension, and I think it's it's a shame, it's an embarrassment to me, and it also makes me feel like spiritual warfare. Satan is doing a number on God's people in this regard.

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Randy admits that for him, this conversation is personal.

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Yeah, it it feels personal to me because of my pilgrimage in this area.

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Randy has been speaking out against materialism, greed, and warning people about the stronghold of mammon for over 35 years. And not only has Randy been writing books and educating others, but he has also been walking this out in a really unique way. He published Money, Possessions, and Eternity in 1989, and one year later, he had to resign as a pastor due to a lawsuit pertaining to an abortion clinic and a peaceful protest. As a result of the lawsuit, Randy ended up being paid minimum wage for the next 20 years. There's a lot that goes into that story, and you can read more about it in Randy's book. But the reason I mention it is to recognize the importance of the timing.

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The timing was I had written that book, and now for the next 20 years I'm going to be making minimum wage. It was perfect. I mean, God knew that I would be put to the test. How real is this to me? At the time we had committed to give away all of the royalties for my books, and that's still in place. None of them come to me. 10% of them now go to our ministry because the ministry board said, Aren't we one of those Christian ministries that deserves support? And I go, okay, 10% will go there, 90% will go to all over the world, to all of the other things. So I was put to the test. My wife and I were put to the test. We had daughters who had been going to Christian school, and we would not be able to afford for them to continue to go to our church school. And anonymous donor, you know, provided and you know, all but we saw God

Randy’s Costly Apprenticeship

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do all of these amazing things. How did we get our daughters still making minimum wage? And my wife worked part-time as a secretary for a ministry, and so her part-time income was basically equivalent to my minimum wage. So let's call it double minimum wage. But still, how did we get our first daughter through Christian University, uh, Christian College, the Master's College, which was a lot cheaper then than it is now, but it's probably about the same equivalent. But as impossible, that alone was more than we made combined. Um, and yet we're paying our daughters away through, and it was almost like God just keeps providing. So, having seen all that firsthand, having challenged people to not be guilty of materialism, don't worship mammon, the money god. Uh, break free, and the only way to break free is through giving. If you're not a giver, you will be in the hold of money. And it's it's like uh mass means gravity, and the more uh mass we accumulate, the more we orbit around it, and that's inevitable. It's it's not a choice we make. I mean, we make a choice to make the money and keep the money, and that's the choice that creates the mass that creates the gravity that holds us in orbit around it. And so I'm challenging people to do all these things, and now I have to do all these things. Now, we were generous givers by relative standards, but now, all these years later, 13 million copies of the books have sold, and we have been able to give away far more from book royalties than from my income. We have seen it go to change lives all over the world. Clean water, the gospel, Bible translation, people out of sex trafficking, prison ministries, anything and everything, which have brought us far more joy than anything else we could have done with it. So that's how close to my heart it is.

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I asked Randy to share how we can begin inviting people into the generous life that he often describes.

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Well, you think of Ephesians 2: 8 and 9, by grace you've been saved through faith, that and not of yourselves. It's the gift of God, not by works, lest any man should boast. I remember memorizing that as a young Christian on the navigator's uh memory verse cards. That's where it ended. But of course, that's not where it ends because it goes on to verse 10. For we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus to do good works. Now, good works are not something we just do out of the goodness of our heart by intention or even by desire. Good works are what actually help people. In other words, it must be received by people in order to have been truly a good work, right? I mean, doesn't that just make sense? And it it's like if they've not received it, if it's sitting in some fun somewhere, it has not done any good in their lives and therefore is not a good work. Now we all know that some of the money that we give away sometimes will not be well used, and I think God can still reward us from that as long as we've done our due diligence and had every reason to believe this was a worthy recipient. Um, and yes, some organizations have too much overhead and uh all of that. If none of it is actually going to people, there is no sense in which it's a good work, it's an intention to someday do a good work. Your good intentions are amounting to nothing, and you need to change good intentions to good actions, and it's not an action until it's completed, it's got to actually get into the hands of people who need to know Jesus

Giving As Spiritual Gravity

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and people who need to be helped so that their children can live because they're being fed and they're getting clean water and they're being taught healthy um agricultural processes. I mean, all of the things that money given to God's kingdom can do that makes money a great tool. So, 1 Timothy 6, you know, command those who are rich in this world to be generous and willing to share. And now that that's what that one is interesting because willing to share is actually not the best translation. Eager to share is a better translation. It's not passive willingness, it's eager meaning I am completing and actually doing the sharing. So the translation willing to share. Some people with deaths could say, Well, I'm I've I've proved that I'm willing to share. Yeah, well, bring it to completion and actually share, because that's when it counts in the lives of people. It's not love for people until they are now receiving it. It's not only not loving people until you do it, it's not really loving God because you are to love God and love your neighbor as an extension of your love for God. And so part of your loving God is loving your neighbor, and it's not really loving your neighbor until you actually do what will help your neighbor. So we're falling short not only in loving our neighbor, we're falling short in loving God.

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In the parable of the sheep and the goats, Jesus says that our actions towards others have a direct impact on him. So if we go out of our way to show love and kindness, it's as if we've done those deeds directly to God Himself. And conversely, if we ignore those who are suffering, it's as if we've ignored God too. I realize that I often fall short in this area, and I justify my actions when it comes to money. After all, I'm not deliberately harming anyone, but Jesus calls out the sin of omission to be just as damaging. To this point, Randy speaks with a sense of urgency and cautions people not to let money sit in DAFs for very long.

Speaker 4

I know the logic behind it. Well, let's get the tax write off now, and then let's buy ourselves some time before we distribute it. That's okay if it's a month or two, I'm I think. I guess you you could argue that organizations and ministries are in desperate

Good Intentions Versus Completed Good Works

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need. And so in some cases where there's a crisis, some places, tsunami, every dollar counts today. So you could even argue with a couple months, but I'm not we're not gonna quibble over months here because you know it's that's not the point. We should sure quibble over years, that's no doubt about it. And I think once you get past a few months, if you haven't decided where to put it yet, what is your reason? And there are lots of bad reasons that people have. I've had people tell me where, well, you know, I I can't give in one case somebody that had hundred hundreds of millions and it was sitting there. And in that case, it was the foundation, but it's the same problem because foundations are are are directed by people, human beings, who are trying to honor God and perhaps are falling short in this area in ways they don't even realize. But we should realize it and could say, well, well, there's there's not like if it's to get deliver people from sex trafficking, there's organizations that they can't handle millions of dollars. Fine, find some that can hand handle five hundred thousand dollars or one hundred thousand dollars, and there are many good ones. Now there are bad ones also, so that's a different story, but that that's doing your homework, that's giving wisely, not just giving generously. You can certainly find worthy recipients in these areas.

Speaker 3

Randy and I spent nearly two hours discussing various reasons why people hold money in DAFs and private foundations. For the sake of time, we'll unpack a few key reasons now, and the remaining content will be distributed as bonus clips through our website. So if you're a fan of Randy's and you want to listen to more of our conversation, be sure to subscribe through the link in the show notes. So let's dive in. One of the reasons people keep large amounts in DAFs or private foundations is due to the prevailing belief that you should never touch the principal on invested money. The thought behind it is if you invest a large sum, that money should grow, and as long as you only pull out the interest earned, the original sum of money should remain intact and continue to grow more money. Many people use this strategy to maintain large amounts of wealth while giving a small percentage off the top each year. Here was Randy's response when I asked him: should people with DAFs or private foundations invade the principal and spend down their assets?

Speaker 4

At another conference, there was a QA thing after I spoke on laying up treasures in heaven. And someone in the audience that have read your book, Money Possession in Eternity, I kind of think I know how you're going to answer this question. But how do you feel about foundations that just give away the interest on the money that's there? And that's how they distribute millions of dollars a year, but they hang on to the principle year after year, generation after generation, in some cases. How do you feel about that? Sitting right in front of me is a man who had the controlling interest or the most authority anyway, in a family foundation that at the time was the largest mission supporting foundation in the country. Some people will figure this out and know exactly who it is, but I don't think he would mind at all. He's with Jesus, and you know, this is what he told me. He said, uh, because what I said was I'd give away the vast majority of it, and then create a plan where it would diminish. You're giving away from principal year after year, if you

How Long Is Too Long

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want it to last another five years, if you want it to last another 10 years, but don't let it go on in perpetuity. If you do, numbers of things could happen. Number one, Jesus may return. I mean, he is going to return, right? We just don't know when. And when he returns, everything that's stored up there is like moth and rust and dust and fire, and it's all gone. Okay. And you don't want that to happen. If you have a plan and it takes five years to implement that plan because you don't want to give it all away now, okay, but even there, check your heart. I don't even know if you want to hold on for it for another five years, but whatever. But otherwise, as it comes in, give it out. I mean, I just think that's what makes sense, and God can create generate interest. Of a spiritual nature in the lives of people that's way more important than interest and profits from the stock market, and that itself is uncertain and all that. So I said that, but he's sitting right in front of me. I'm going, and he's a good friend. And I don't want him to feel like I'm judging him. I just did not want him to feel that. And I'm sure other people in the room were thinking, look who's sitting right in front of him. Does he even know? And of course I did know. But it didn't change anything because it was still true. Okay. So one year later, we had talked on the phone once that year, and that was it. But I didn't know this story. He says, Randy, I don't know if you know what happened, but we had a hostile takeover. And our business was, I'm not even going to quote what I think he said, but a huge amount of losses in their foundation and the value of their foundation, money and foundation. But he said, Do you remember that QA last year that after you spoke? And I go, Yeah, I do. I remember it very well. And so I was just ready for whatever he was going to say. He said, Remember what you said? I said, Yeah. He says, as a result of that, I doubled the amount, we doubled the amount that our foundation gave away last year. It wasn't just the interest plus whatever they usually give. So we gave away an extra $32 million or $34 million or whatever it was. He said, So what I wanted to tell you was, I wish we had given away a lot more. Because I'm so thankful for that. Because right now, that 34 million would not have been 34 million, it would have been, I'm not going to quote the figure because I'll get it wrong. And I thought, what an example.

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Randy's story reminds us that we can't predict the future, except for the fact that Jesus is coming

Spend Down The Principal

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back. Randy's message continues pointing us back to living with a sense of urgency and anticipation of Christ's return. And he argues that we should deploy the funds while we have them in our control. Another reason people keep money in a DAF long term is because they want to pass on charitable assets to their children in hopes of creating a family legacy of giving. I asked Randy if he could find a compelling argument in scripture about leaving charitable assets to children.

Speaker 4

Well, first of all, the way that you can leave a legacy of giving is by giving. It's not by holding, it's by giving. Giving and holding are normally opposites. You could say, in terms of intention, you could say, My intention is to give, but the intention, again, as we've talked about, just is not the same. You need to do more for your children than pass on the intention of giving. You need to pass on the example of actually giving.

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Randy also points out that the decision to leave your children wealth or charitable assets is ultimately God's call to make.

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God hasn't entrusted it to them. Why are you entrusting God's money to them? If God owns it all, and we say that, but do we really believe it? If God owns it all, well, you know, what would we do if we had a financial advisor? And I said, So uh this money that I've been sending in, you know, the the or that my ministry sends in that I'm employed by. And what would I say if I found out the financial advisor has been taking that money, which is first God's and secondly mine? And I said, Where did all that money go? I see that the statements say there's zero in what what what happened? And he's and what we said we do if the financial advisor said to us, I decided to give it all to my children. What would we say?

Market Risk And Kingdom Urgency

Speaker 4

It doesn't belong to your children, and it doesn't belong to you. And actually, it doesn't even belong to me, it belongs to God. So why would you give it to your children? I had one time was at a conference, and somebody came up to me and said, Would you just do me a favor and don't say God owns it all? And I said, Why? And he said, Because we all know that. We have all heard that. And I said, I will stop saying it when we actually live as if we believe it. Because if I if God owns it all and I'm his financial manager, he is literally entrusted to me his assets and given me the choice of where to put them, then what's the first question I should ask God before every major expenditure, at least, and maybe minor ones as well, is what God, what do you want me to do with your money? Do we ask him that? Do we set a reasonable salary for ourselves as his money manager? And he doesn't tell us what that salary should be, but and it's going to vary from person to person, but it's going to be way less than the total. And then does everything above and beyond go to God's kingdom?

Speaker 3

Randy shares that he personally is leaving a small amount of money to his children, but the large majority of his wealth is distributed for kingdom causes. He clarifies that he is leaving his kids just enough to help them in a small way, but not enough that it leads them into temptation or causes

Legacy Giving And Children

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harm.

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So some people whose response is, you're not leaving a lot of money for your children, your children's children, what about Proverbs where it says that that's what you should do? Well, in those days, leaving the inheritance to your child meant giving them the land, the land where the herds are raised, and giving them the cattle. Because if you sold the land and you sold the cattle and you sold the the farm, you know, well, that's is the land, you know, the the but the even the farming implements or whatever, you would leave your children bereft. But so you leave them the this inheritance, but that's what it meant. That's not what an inheritance is today in the vast majority of cases.

Speaker 3

Randy's work has personally helped me clarify my responsibility and leaving an inheritance for my children. Many people look at Proverbs 13: 22 and assume they need to leave their children with an abundance of wealth. But as Randy points out, this passage was written to an audience of farmers whose land was the inheritance. Without the land, your family was in danger of becoming destitute. Today in the West, our family structure is very different. Most adult children who are healthy and able will leave their parents' house and work to earn their own money. And in many cases, when a parent passes away, the adult children have not been financially reliant on them for many decades. This understanding has helped me challenge the current narrative of leaving a financial inheritance to your kids. And if you continue reading in Proverbs 13, you'll see the author compelling his readers to pursue justice, to provide their kids with moral discipline, and to have faith that righteousness is enough to satisfy.

Speaker 4

Years ago, a couple came to me and they said, um, we have decided, and we've read Money Possessions in Eternity, and we feel God's leading, that we're going to give away the vast majority of our wealth and a very, very wealthy family, easily hundreds of millions of dollars. And that's what we want to do. Now, how do how would you advise we talk to our family about it? We talked about how to do that, and they said, okay, we're gonna set up a meeting, we're gonna get together. I think it might have been on a family vacation, I'm not sure. But we're gonna get the whole family together, we're gonna get together. They have three daughters, and then the men they're married to, and once again, as you would kind of expect coming from a family of wealth, their daughters marry uh men of wealth, the men wear marry uh girls, you know, uh wives of wealth. Here it is, and we're gonna sit down with them, we're gonna explain our intention. The next year, didn't hear anything from them, we didn't exchange info. They came up to me and

God Owns It All

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they said, We gotta sit down with you and tell you what happened. And I was very eager to hear. One of the daughters and her husband, uh, but she was kind of the leader in it, got so angry that she stalked out of the room when she heard that her parents were giving the vast majority of it away to God's kingdom. Again, not saying we're leaving nothing for you, but the va hundreds of millions of dollars is not going to be coming to you. Or split between the three of you, or whatever. So she got very angry, left. Another sat there very shocked, and her husband was shocked also, but you couldn't really read the nature of the shock. The third ones are like in tears. The daughter and son-in-law said, Mom and dad, we're so proud of you, and we're so thankful for you, and you've always been generous to us, and where would we be without you? We could not be happier. And that's a pretty good first response, you know. So we had the whole gamut, but then the here's the best thing they all end up walking out of the room except one of the husbands, and it might have been the husband where they were shocked, but they didn't really know it it hadn't sunk in yet. He came back and said, I want to thank you. And they said, Really? You want to thank us? Yeah, well, not not just forgiving. All along, the entire time I've been married to your daughter, I've always known that I would never be their provider. Their ultimate provider in the human sphere would be mom and dad through your deaths. So that I I didn't have to provide for my family. I do, of course. I work. Now I realize I need to be the provider for my wife and children and walked out of the room. I thought that was powerful and beautiful and revealing.

Speaker 3

I think many parents are worried what would happen if they gave away all their wealth to kingdom causes. But perhaps we need the spiritual discernment to ask what might happen if we leave this for our kids? Is

Rethinking Inheritance And Proverbs

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there potential for the money to cause harm? Are there any real downsides to giving the money to God's kingdom now and trusting in God to be the ultimate provider for our kids?

Speaker 4

Our great-grandchildren will hardly know who we were. I mean, that that's how it is now. Most of us can say something about our grandparents. Many people can't even answer a question about their great-grandparents, except maybe they grew up in Arkansas. That's all they know. The thing is, if we're really going to leave a heritage, we've got to influence these kids now. But what doesn't make any sense whatsoever, even if we knew that if they all that whoever was going to control in the future would be godly and kingdom-oriented and wouldn't give the money to the wrong places, even if we knew that, again, Christ may return. And again, is it possible? This is something I theorize in Money Possessions and Eternity. Is it possible that our God faithfully provides for each generation of his people sufficient income to basically solve every problem in the world? Now, of course, the world's still under curse, and there's sin and death and suffering and all. It doesn't solve those problems, but it solves all the need, the human need problems. Is it possible he is entrusted to us, but we're just not using it that way? And I think it's not only possible, it's very likely. I think one day God may look us and say, I provided everything that needed for all the world needs to be cared for to my people, not just to the world, to my people in each generation, but for the most part, they didn't use it that way. And I don't I don't want that to be said of me and to be true of me at the judgment seat of Christ. And I'm not talking harshness here, but it is a judgment seat, and we will be held accountable for all that we have done while in the body, whether good or bad. 2 Corinthians 5:10, we're not even going to get into what could he possibly mean by bad, but I think a lot of people just have not thought enough about eternal rewards. One of my books called The Law of Rewards. I've got a couple of uh or four chapters, I think, in Money, Possession, and Eternity on Eternal Rewards. We need to think about it, but even apart from our self-interest, and by the way, self-interest is okay when he says, store up for yourselves treasures in heaven. That's for our welfare. It's primarily for the good of the people we're loving, but secondarily, it's for our good

When Family Hears The Plan

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as well. So if people are thinking, well, you don't care anything about me, and you don't care about my good, you're just thinking about what I could do for other people. And go, the best you can do for other people is the best you can do for yourself. The greatest you can do for God is the greatest you can do for yourself. It all falls in together.

Speaker 3

I think often Christians struggle with giving, not because God was unclear. You know, Jesus spoke in a lot of parables, and that sometimes causes confusion for us. But when it comes to money, he was painfully clear. You know, Jesus never tells someone to save more money or grow their wealth, but he does tell us very directly not to store up treasure on earth, and he invites us to care for those suffering and in need. And I think we struggle because we want to find that loophole that allows us to live for God and for money.

Speaker 4

Yeah, I mean, Jesus is radical, his words are radical, the gospel is radical, the New Testament and Old Testament for that matter are radical. Um, and then we spend a lot of our lives trying not to be radical. You know, and it's like a story that I tell in maybe Treasure Principle or Giving Us the Good Life or Managing God's Money, or one of the books, is uh a man in um our church whose wife um sadly left him. They they got a divorce, he owned a huge house, was in good health, made a great income doing what he's doing. So he came to me and he said, You know, now that my wife's gone, the house is just too big and all that. Yeah, I'm sad. But I just feel a prompting from the Holy Spirit to sell that house and give away 100% of it to God's kingdom. And I said, Well, I think that's the voice of God speaking to you. I don't have to say, Oh, you poor guy, because what will you do without that house? I mean, his income is huge, his his money-making power is huge, his his assets, if he ever got in trouble, uh uh assets besides the house he's selling are tremendous. Retirement programs, everything. Okay, so do it. So then uh about three months later, I see him at church, and he he didn't look as happy as he looked when we had talked about giving it all away. I mean, giving that house away. He just was, you think I could do that? I mean, I want to do that, I want to do that. And I said, So, uh, how's it coming? Have you sold the house yet? And he looked at me with disappointment in his eyes, and he said, Well, to tell you the truth, I told my small group about it and they all advised me not to do it. They said it wasn't wise, I shouldn't do it. And I have thought to this day, I don't know where he stands with the Lord today, but at one time he was struggling later. And I just wondered if he had done that thing and found the joy of giving, he would have been enveloped in the grace of God for

Eternal Rewards And Accountability

Speaker 4

that act of giving, even though he was still keeping the majority of his assets even then, but to give that away would have been so huge in his life. And I wondered years later when he was struggling, did his small group Bible study, including the leader of that Bible study, do him a disservice? I mean, not just the world that could have been helped by it, but he himself. And I think the answer is yes, the disservice was done to him. And we in the body of Christ sometimes are very poor examples to each other in this area.

Speaker 3

Let's conclude with one more story.

Speaker 4

My wife Nancy, um, so now almost a wow. Uh, we're within a month of uh four years ago when she was dying. She one day took my hand and she was weak, but you know, I'm I'm holding her hand and we're having amazing fellowship. She grew closer to the Lord and became more of a shining light. I mean, it's almost incomprehensible how God used her dying years for his glory, and she journaled daily, and her journal was not about all of her doctor appointments, which would be fine, but it was all about the Lord and scripture and the book she was reading, Knowing God by J.I. Packer, Knowledge of the Holy by A. W. Tozer, Desiring God, by John Piper, Trusting God by uh Jerry Bridges. I mean, there's a theme and all that, it's all about God, you know, attributes of God and who he is. But she she took my hand and she said, Um, Randy, thank you for my life. And I I didn't even know, I mean, maybe I knew in general what she meant, but I didn't know the specifics. But I said, Nancy, thank you for my life. And I thought all she was talking about was we had spent uh we had known each other for 54 years since we were freshmen in high school. We'd been married for 47 years, and that was like, thank you for my life, the life that we've spent together and the two wonderful daughters we've had. But then she looked at me and she said, Because of you, we gave away a lot of money. And uh now I'm going to the Lord and as scripture puts it, also going into my reward. And she said, Thank you, because my reward is going to be far greater because of all the money we gave away and all the causes we supported, and all the people whose lives were changed as a result. And we're both just weeping, and what it meant to me was it was God's way of saying there were times where Nancy did sacrifice, but we always did it in concert, and she would always say, You're the leader,

When Community Talks You Out

Speaker 4

I'm gonna follow your lead. But it it would be kind of fun to use that money other ways, and we traveled all over the world. Yes, I was speaking at missions conferences, or whatever, but still we went to those places, and sometimes we were paying for it just ourselves, and we went to Maui and we'd stay at a wonderful place, and you know, so it's just this is not asceticism, but I'm just saying if you can experience that at the end of your life when one of you dies in a marriage relationship and be able to look at each other and say, We did that. Now, we didn't sacrifice nearly as much as many people do, but the point is that was a very good feeling, and it was more than a good feeling. It was more of a sense of with all of my shortcomings, with all of Nancy's shortcomings, there will be people in heaven that will say thank you for giving so that our children could stay alive, for giving so that we could have the Bible in our heart language, for giving so that we could have clean water, and we could have food, and we could be delivered out of sex trafficking, and we could do all of these other things, and we will sit at dinner tables, banquets, and I think Jesus will be in charge of the seating arrangements, and I think he'll put us next to maybe people on our left who gave of their time, money, uh, their lives, and poured into us, even people who we read that lived, you know, maybe David Livingston, maybe his, you know, whoever lived a long time ago, and we'll be able to say thank you to them and to our Pastors and to our parents and our grandparents and to people in our church that were examples to us, and then people on our right that we will be meeting for the first time, some of them, who will be saying to us, Thank you for your giving and the difference it made in my life. And in that day, are any of us going to think, I wish I hadn't given away so much? No. If anything, the first blush will be, why in the world did I hang on to that money when I could have and should have given it? And in the case of death, why did I let it sit in that fund doing nothing instead of investing it in God's kingdom so that on our deathbeds we could

A Deathbed Thank You

Speaker 4

look at our families and say, I didn't do everything right, not even close, and you all know it. I'm so thankful for the money that we gave to God's kingdom.

Speaker 3

After listening to Randy share this story about Nancy, I recognized a longing in my own heart for this to be my story too. The good news is it can be my story, and it can be yours if you want it. But there's nothing stopping you from pursuing Christ with everything you have. Randy's consistent reminder that Jesus is coming back, and his natural inclination to plan for eternity reminds me of the insightful words of C.S. Lewis. If you read history, you'll find that the Christians who did the most for the present world were just those who thought most of the next. Special thank you to Randy Alcorn. Randy, I can no longer refer to you as my closest mentor who I've never met. I'm grateful for meeting you and for everything you contributed to this project. And as mentioned earlier, if you would like to hear more of Randy's interview, subscribe through the link in the show notes and we'll send you the additional content that didn't make it into this episode. Our closing song this week is I See the Birds by John Guerra. Join us next week as we start to lean the plane on this project. We'll look at four key players in the DAF dilemma and begin by asking, who's responsible for creating change? We'll see you soon.

Speaker 1

So won't you teach me how I mean motion in times of trouble? Be my help again. Oh be my help again. Don't you beat her He only by yourself in time to trouble? Don't you want to be able to do it?