EP 3: Becoming Through Prayer (with Jasmine Jones)

In this episode, we’re having an honest conversation about prayer—not the polished version, but the kind you learn in the middle of becoming.

Jenny sits down with her best friend, Jasmine, to talk about how prayer becomes a place to process fear, navigate hard seasons, and build real intimacy with God. Together, they unpack what it looks like to pray through insecurity, surrender control, and move beyond feeling like you need the “right words” to come to God.

If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed, unsure of how to pray, or like you had to have it all together before going to God, this conversation is for you.

Because prayer isn’t about performance.

It’s about presence.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey hey hey everybody, welcome to the Crown Embrace Podcast. This is the space for our chat. I'm Jenny, and as I navigate my own journey, I hope to meet you right where you are and encourage you with my experiences. I believe in the power of transparency. Scripture reminds us that we are saved by the blood of the Lamb and the Lord of our testimony. And that's what drives me to step out and faith and share. Together, we'll explore what it means to embrace who God has called us to be. Crowned and brave. So we'll be checking. Let's do this together. You are crowned, you are brave, and this journey is ours to take. Let's go. Hey y'all, welcome back to the Crowned and Brave podcast. I'm Jenny, and I'm really grateful that you're here for today's conversation. Today's episode is one that feels really close to my heart because we're talking about prayer. Not in the way that you usually hear about it, like not in the polished version, not the routine version, but the kind of prayer you learn when you're in the middle of becoming. There was a time where I thought prayer was just something that you did, you know, before service, after service, when something went wrong. But somewhere along my journey, I realized that prayer was something that I had to learn. Not just the words, but the language of being with God. And I learned that language in the hard moments. Moments where I felt overwhelmed, where things felt too heavy to carry, where I didn't have the answers. And what I found in those moments was that God was never distant from me. He was always present and he was always consistent. So prayer became a place where I could be fully honest, where I could bring fear, insecurity, frustration, and not feel like I had to clean it up first. You know what I mean? It became a space where I realized that God is actually able to hold everything that feels unbearable to me. Matter of fact, that's where we're going to anchor our thoughts for today. Philippians 4, verse 6 and 7 says, Do not worry about anything. Instead, pray about everything. Tell God what you need and thank him for all he has done. Then you will experience God's peace, which exceeds anything you can understand. His peace will guard your hearts and minds as you live in Christ Jesus. And what I began to understand through that is that prayer isn't just about telling God what we need, it's about what God is making available to us in return. You know, peace, the covering, uh a steadiness in the middle of chaos. The kind of peace that doesn't always make sense, but somehow holds us together when things are falling apart. And over time, that changed the way that I prayed. It stopped being routine and it started becoming incredibly necessary, especially in my role that I carry now, or in the roles that I carry now as a mother, as a wife, as a leader, someone who was constantly covering others in prayers. Prayer became more than a moment, it became a rhythm, it became a place of intimacy. Matter of fact, it became surrender. And honestly, a place where I realized that I was never fighting to get to God. He had been with me the entire time, actually. And that's really what this conversation is about today. Because I'm not having this conversation alone. Matter of fact, I'm sitting down with someone who is incredibly close to me. She's my best friend, and truly, she's my sister. We've grown together in life and in ministry, and we've had the privilege of watching each other evolve over the years, not just in person, but in our walks with the Lord. I've watched her be stretched, refined, and shaped. And I've also watched her step into who God has called her to be with confidence and clarity. She's an elder at our church, she leads and pours into our prayer team, and she has a real grace for teaching what intercession looks like. Not just in theory, but in how she lives it out. She even calls herself the prayer fluencer. And honestly, it fits because she's not just someone who prays. No, she is someone who leads others into prayer. She models it and who is using her voice to influence her community through prayer. I've had the privilege to watch her grow in life and in leadership and in the way that she's embraced the call of God on her life, especially in this area of prayer. So I am so excited for you guys to all hear from her today. My bestie, Jasmine Jones, the prayer fluencer, is here to talk to us about becoming through prayer. Let's get into it. I'm so excited that you're joining me today. Today I have a special guest with me. Um, on today's episode, I have the prayer fluencer herself, Jasmine Jones. She is here, and she is going to talk to us today about um how prayer is super essential in the becoming journey. Um hi Jazz, how are you? I'm great. I'm so excited. I'm so glad that you're here, and I'm so glad that you said yes to supporting me, not only just on this journey, but um to really sharing your heart with uh the people about prayer. So thank you. Yeah, you don't you don't have to speak up, sister. Uh-oh. Okay. Yes, absolutely. There we go. Okay. So for uh actually, for those that don't know, Jazz and I are best friends. We're practically sisters. Um, we've done a lot of our begoming journey together. And um over the years, we've been able to watch how God has shaped us from one end of the journey from being completely riddled with fear, insecurities, trauma, et cetera, et cetera, to now being in another state in our journey where we are a lot more confident, a lot more mature, and God has processed us in a way where we are free to be able to talk about this. Um, and like I mentioned to you before, Jazz, we know that the becoming is never ending.

SPEAKER_04 6:59

Never.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Um, but we are in a place now where we um can use our process and our gifts to be able to support other people as they um go through their their journeys as well. Um all right, so Jazz, uh talk to us about um your story, um, who you are, how the prayer fluencer got started, and um what is your relationship with prayer?

SPEAKER_02 7:25

Oh my, all right, so who I am, I am Jasmine Carla Jones. Um, I am a PK preacher's kid for those who don't know, raised in the church all my life, and I realized when I got older that I really didn't know as much as I thought I should, or as people expected me to. Um, and so I really grew up with a lot of insecurities, a lot of feeling like, oh, other people should be doing this or that, but I'm I shouldn't or I'm not capable. And so I just always was reserved. I always took a back seat, not realizing that God was pulling me forward. And so through life experience, through divorce, through loss, um I learned to lean on God in a way that I didn't realize I would need to. And so through that process, he brought me to a place of intimacy with him, really learning who he is and how vital it is for me to be connected to him. And that's where Perfluencer came from, you know, feeling like not only is this something that I'm growing in and becoming in, but I now get to influence the world around me and how I've gotten to know God, how I now share him, and bringing people into that fold. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

I love that. Um okay, so how has prayer shaped the woman that you've become specifically?

SPEAKER_02 8:57

Prayer has shaped me in a way that I did not expect. It really came out of a place of insecurity. Growing up, you know, hearing the prayers at the dinner table, hearing people pray in church, I always felt like it was older people or, you know, the more seasoned, the more mature that had way more to say than what I did. You know, all I knew was, ooh, God is great, God is good, let us think more. Amen. Amen. Not realizing that the whole point in praying over your food was to one, give God thanks for the food that you have.

SPEAKER_03 9:30

Right.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

Um, being grateful that although others may not have the same thing that you do, that you become very grateful in that moment. So taking a moment to um honor God for that and then also praying over the food itself.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

We don't know what's in this food, we don't know the hands that prepared it. We got to pray over it. We got to we got to pray over it.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

We don't know what a hands have been. So we got to make sure that we're praying over that. And so as I grew up, I realized it's not just about God is great, God is good. Yeah, he is, but there's some other specific things that we need to be praying for and covering. And so that as my foundation, um, I realized I needed more than that as I was growing and getting to know God. And so as I started relying more on him, I'm like, this prayer thing is serious.

SPEAKER_03 10:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

Like it's not something that I can play around with. And I was terrified when people asked me to pray, or you know, if I was at church or something, somebody'd be like, oh, let's let's open up and pray. I'm like, oh no, surely not me. Let me go hide because you don't want me to pray. I felt like I needed the right words. Um, a lot of time, you know, in church, you use some people use scripture. Right. I'm like, I don't know enough. Look, I know Jesus whipped. Jesus wept, right? And didn't even know the depth of what that even meant. Right. And so I didn't feel like I knew enough. And it wasn't until I started growing with myself and God that I realized it was so much more to it.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

So just growing in that insecurity.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

Um I know, uh, well, I kind of prefaced the conversation and talking about how, you know, in our friendship, we found one another when we were in, I don't want, I don't know if the right word is the infancy stage, but like we found each other in a stage of our walk where we were under underdeveloped. Right. Let's say that. Absolutely. Um, and I think it's interesting that one of the things for you not knowing that you would become the prayer fluencer later in life, yep, um, and being you know, such a like a teacher on intercession and all of that, um, that you were scared. You were scared when you were younger that they would call on you to pray. Yep. And so that's that's actually really telling. And like God in his godness, kind of like showing a little bit of like, here's something that you're gonna step into, and that it's gonna start off maybe in this fear.

SPEAKER_05 12:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

And so, like, how would you how would you describe like when you were when you were become you were coming into your becoming season, what do you think was that thing in you that was changing?

SPEAKER_02 12:14

Um, I think really coming out of self, um, you know, get understanding that it's not about me. It's not so much about, you know, what I say, how, well, what I say, yes, but how well I say it or having this or having that. It's just about talking to God and understanding that this actually starts at home. It doesn't start where I'm being asked, it starts in that private place at home. And because that wasn't happening, yeah, that outward display, I couldn't have that. Yeah, and so it was an awareness that I realized I had to face. And that was a hard truth. Like, wow, this guy that I've grown up in and with, I really wasn't in and with.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

You kind of just didn't really know him. Like even though you grew up with him, you didn't actually know him for self.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

I was relying on those who I was around, like my parents, right, you know, thinking that their faith covered me to a certain extent.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

I you know, it's so crazy how many people actually have that belief.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

You know, knowing that and like they can pinpoint, like, oh, um, you know, my grandmother was a person of faith, or like my parents or my auntie or whatever, right? And thinking that they they got me covered.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

Yep. That's all I need.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

They got me covered. But you realizing that you needed something for yourself. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. So when do you when do you think that like when when was that?

SPEAKER_02 13:43

Um honestly, I think it came way later for me. Um, when I went through a really toxic marriage, and towards the end of that, coming to a place of desperation, yeah, um, where God had, he had been getting my attention several times over. And I continued to ignore it, you know, thinking that I could be in control and try to change whatever it was that was going on, and realizing that I need God, needed God in a way that I really didn't fully understand. And so once things actually ended, once I made the decision, I'm like, all right, God, what now? You know, how are you helping me to deal with my emotions? What do I even do next? That takes talking to him.

SPEAKER_03 14:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

And that was prayer. My tears were prayer. Sure. You know, it was more than just what sometimes I didn't even know what to say. I didn't have the words to say it. And so when I came to that place of surrender, I believe God was giving me language as I continue to pour out and surrender. He was showing me what he needed me to pay attention to. And I didn't even realize that that was growing me in prayer.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

Um, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Yeah. And I so as you're talking about surrender and you made mention of um your toxic marriage that you have you're separated from, just make that clear. Um in that time where you felt like there was a shifting happening in your life and God was intentionally developing something in you, whether or not you had caught on to what God was doing, yeah, what would you say was the thing that was like breaking in you?

SPEAKER_02 15:24

The fear. Um, the fear was definitely breaking because the reason why it was so hard for me to come to him, I would think maybe even I was afraid of him. Yeah. Now that I think about it. Um, and I don't know, I can't pinpoint right now what I was afraid of.

SPEAKER_03 15:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

But I knew that I no longer wanted to be disconnected and that I had to face that in some way. And so the fear probably started there, and then it just turned into, well, if I'm not already not talking to you, then I can't show up in these places where I'm being asked. I can't come to you when I'm going through hard times. Like I don't even know what to say because I'm not doing it.

SPEAKER_03 16:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

So I think that fear was what really stirred things up. And when I chose to address it, that's when things accelerated and started to take off.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

I feel like I know that we're not talking about leadership right now.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

But you said um you essentially didn't have what you needed when you were being asked to show up.

SPEAKER_04 16:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

Um what were you being asked to show up in? Um, I believe And I don't know if you meant that in the context of like church or if you meant that like in the context of your life. So just give us an understanding.

SPEAKER_02 16:32

Um, I would say it started in family first and then in public at church.

SPEAKER_03 16:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

Um, with family being asked to pray, you know, at dinner time.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

And a lot of times, you know, in in the African American families, that prayer time at dinner is serious. Especially like Thanksgiving, Christmas. You know, you're calling on the elders to pray, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:53

Because they're seasoned and they've got something good to say. Right. And they might not even pray for the food. Listen, may not even get there.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

Might not even get there. I mean, praying for everything other than the food. But like a child or an adolescent, whatever, being asked to pray, someone other than an elder, that is a wait. Sure. At a family meal, but that is serious. And so for me, I'm like, oh no, surely not me. We're gonna ask the clergy person in the family. Or we're gonna ask the elders. That's it. Or I would try to hide. Right. And I think it was very rare that, you know, I did do it, but I had to think quick, you know, oh shoot, what was I gonna say? And it became this moment of pressure that I did not need.

SPEAKER_03 17:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:37

And so it started there. And then once I got, you know, in church regularly, in um serving on teams and serving as a leader, being asked to do that for people who knew my background, yeah, it should have been a no-brainer. Of course, we're gonna ask you to do it. Why not? You grew up in this, you should know this. Right. And so pulling on me, I'm like, ugh, there's a certain expectation now. You're expecting me to know my scripture, you're expecting me to have a certain type of sound. Yeah. You're expecting me to have a certain type of cadence in prayer. And I'm like, am I gonna even be able to meet that expectation? And now I'm paying attention to everybody watching me or not watching me. Yeah. And I'm spending more time looking at that than the God that I'm supposed to be talking to. My Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

So Okay, so you talked about how you felt like while you were in the space of becoming, you felt, you felt um fear breaking off. Yeah. What did you feel like was being built in you during that time?

SPEAKER_02 18:37

Um I felt like confidence number one was being built in me. Um, and definitely uh a divine strength that I didn't feel I had before. And really that's, you know, God at work in me. Yeah. You know, that's the divine strength that it was. And feeling like, okay, it's not so much that I got this, but God's at work in me, and I can trust that whatever it is he's gonna say through me, that's gonna be whatever needs to be said out loud.

SPEAKER_03 19:05

Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

Um, and so yeah, confidence, strength, um, trust in the God that I'm talking to. Yeah. Um, and then obedience because that's really what it was about.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 19:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Okay, so under now that we have like an understanding of your story and how you kind of started off with um with prayer and how prayer was a tool that was used in your becoming story. You kind of spoke about how um prayer helped you to process through fear.

SPEAKER_04 19:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Um, and so you know, fear is gonna look different for so many different people. It could be fear, it could be trauma, it could be insecurity.

SPEAKER_04 19:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

So how did prayer help you to process fear instead of avoiding that fear?

SPEAKER_02 20:01

Yeah. I think that it forced me to sit with the things that I didn't want to pay attention to.

SPEAKER_03 20:08

Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_02 20:09

Um, you know, there were moments that I was absolutely distracting myself with being busy. Yeah. You know, there were certain hobbies that I had at that particular time that I would use where I could have been using the vehicle of prayer, but now I'm using all these other things to kind of fill the void or fill that place where I'm like, okay, I'm good. This is this is good. But they were temporary fixes.

SPEAKER_03 20:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

And I really nothing was being produced out of that, but more than that. That's good. That's actually really good. They were just like band-aids. Um, and so it was hard because I wasn't able to really name the things that I was struggling with. And so when I finally decided to, you know what, you know, God, let me just go ahead and sit with this. I actually don't know what I'm feeling right now. Yeah. So I need you to help me with this. Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

And that's and that's the Lord helping you process it. Like the fact that you said that you can't name it.

SPEAKER_04 21:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

And so, like in prayer, you're just sitting there like, I don't even know what this is, Lord.

SPEAKER_04 21:09

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

And so using that vehicle to even allow Holy Spirit, yeah, right, to like help you, yeah, to help help make things clear. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

Continue talking about that.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

The more I spoke about what I was having issues with, I could literally feel God like wanting to take those things and just hold them, not even necessarily take them away. Sure. But just to be like, all right, I got this for right now. And kind of like, you just sit there. You just sit there and you just be for right now. And so in those moments where I could sit there and be, then the language would start to come. And it would go from a place of not even knowing what to say to now being in a place of not only surrender, but saying, you know what, God, I've been wrong about this actually.

SPEAKER_05 21:56

Right.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

Right. And sort of like confessing the things. I didn't even know I needed to confess. Right. And then that just lifted. Those would continue lifting the weights of that.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

I just love how we don't realize how prayer could, like I said, be that vehicle in which we are processing hurt. In which we're processing um pain and confusion. And and it's, you know, in my experience with prayer, is that as I'm praying, the Holy Spirit is speaking to me.

SPEAKER_04 22:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

You know what I mean? And either encouraging me through scripture or, you know, I I'm sure other people have experiences too, but like you feel lighter.

SPEAKER_04 22:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

Like just like how you you talked about how the Lord was like, let me hold this for you. You can feel that in prayer. Um, and uh it's the talking it out, whether it's in journal or it's you know oral or it's through sound, that you feel like there's a burden being lifted. Um it's therapy. Yeah, it really is therapy. Yeah, um, and so fear being that insecurity for you specifically, yeah. What did it look like to bring that insecure part of you to God honestly? What did that actually look like for you?

SPEAKER_02 23:11

It looked like he was helping me to clean up all the stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, you know, what were the things about me that I just allowed to stay either hidden or just put them to the side that really needed to be addressed? Yeah. And so it felt like or it looked like me identifying all those things, all the stuff that was holding me back, like the things, well, in some cases, they were things like jealousy, yeah, um, or things like not fully trusting, um, being kind of over, you know, whatever it was and kind of just throwing it to the side. And so I honestly it just felt like this uncovering of stuff over and over again.

SPEAKER_03 23:55

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

And I think that is what it looked like for me, the cleanup. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

The cleanup.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

The clean I like how you you talk about, you know what's so funny is like when I think of my own, like when I take time to visualize like what my own traumas and all that stuff um looks like, yeah, for me, I always picture a closet. Like a closet that I just continually like stuff things in and like try to like squeeze to like close the door. Right, and then it's gonna work so exactly. And like, so when you say cleanup, no, that's that's real. And so as as you continue to come to God, God is literally peeling back layers or like, no, we're opening this closet and we're dealing with this thing. And we're gonna, we're gonna, and as we, you know, like again, continue to come to God, it's in that place of the shedding.

SPEAKER_04 24:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

Um, as we continue to grow in trust in the Lord, yeah, in the position of prayer, yeah, that the Lord is removing these things. Yeah. And so I like how you called it the clean, because to me, it resonates with me because that closet is very dirty. Dirty.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

It is dirty. What's the old school song said? Uh I cleaned up what I messed up. Something like that. I don't know. Some old school song.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

I cleaned up what I messed up. I'm not supposed to do it.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

I mean, look, not alone. Not alone. He promised never to leave me. Don't leave me up.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Okay. All right, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Call my dad.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Bring it back down. Okay, so again, I love that analogy because some women feel like they're too messy.

SPEAKER_04 25:42

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

Like, I got too much mess. Yeah. I have too much going on.

SPEAKER_04 25:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

I don't even know how to approach the Lord in prayer.

SPEAKER_04 25:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

And like thinking about our becoming, thinking about making a decision, making a choice that I don't want to do this anymore. As a messy woman with a lot of mess, what would you say to that woman who feels like she's too messy to pray?

SPEAKER_02 26:07

I would say that you, the intent is to not try to clean up by yourself before you come to prayer. No, that's you literally come to prayer in order to be clean.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Hello? Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Do you want to be healed?

SPEAKER_00 26:23

Do you want to be made home? Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

And so I think it's just bringing yourself to a place of, and that's our humanness. Our humanness thinking that we can be in control, that we know what to do when we actually don't. For sure. And so being okay to come to God and be like, I really don't have this all figured out. I need you to help me with the things that are making me feel like this, the things that are tearing me apart. Um, and just knowing that if you don't do that, you will never start. You'll never be consistent, you'll never get into um this routine of prayer that you should be in. You won't get there, it'll be delayed.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

Yeah. Over and over. Let's not even talk about delay yet. Because that's a whole thing. Oh God. So we've talked about you, how you've gotten to this space of prayer. It sounds like prayer was always supposed to be part of your becoming story.

SPEAKER_02 27:23

And I didn't even know it.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Isn't that crazy? And so the Lord in his kindness reserved that experience just for you. Don't I could go up now. But then, you know, talking about how prayer has been the tool to really help us to process through um the things that we're going through. For you, it was fear. For me, it was insecurity, it was, you know, um feeling rejected, feeling like misunderstood, all of those things, and bringing those things to the Lord in prayer to process those things and for God to essentially mature us through those things in prayer. Like who would actually think that prayer, because you know, I think people might say, oh, it's uh counseling, oh, it's um reading your word, and it is. It is um, and you know, oh, it's this or that, but something as intimate as prayer, yeah, something as personal as prayer was the the product that was used to help us to pull us out from one place for us to get to a uh a place of not just becoming but a place of maturation in the Lord and how we see ourselves in a place of acceptance as well, right? And so prayer being that breeding ground for intimacy, prayer being that breeding ground for God to really stick his hands in us. When did prayer for you become less about um asking and more about like knowing who God was?

SPEAKER_02 28:49

Um, it was in that maturity as I grew with him and realizing that it wasn't about my list of things that I was bringing to him. Yeah, but it was how we were getting to know each other and how he was forming me and really helping me to become more like him as I talk to him more. And so putting away the list of things, putting away the things that I think he needs to be doing in my life, um, the way I would like him to show up, you know, even as it relates to other people, you know, when people would bring things to my attention, like, oh, you know, can you pray for me about this or that, whatever it was, friends um asking for certain things. And, you know, you want to do that to show up in a supportive way. But at the same time, it's like, again, you need to be consulting God and going to him and talking about those things. Is it something he even wants you to take on to bring to his attention? Right. And so it shifts from seeking after wanting him to move in a certain way, yeah, to just getting to know him, period. Yeah and knowing that whatever he has in store, whatever his plan and his purpose is for you, that it'll fall into place.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

Um, and that he'll show you what that is, how to respond, all those things.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Right. So um earlier um before we started recording, like we were talking about God's sovereignty. And we talked about how, you know, it's in his sovereignty that he chooses to um expose. Yeah, he chooses to refine. And so our prayers have to come from a come from like asking, yeah, right? It's almost like a selfish position.

SPEAKER_03 30:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

Like this thing of like, God, do this for me. Not because the Lord doesn't already see that you're hurting. Yeah. And obviously the Lord loving you so much doesn't want you to hurt.

SPEAKER_04 30:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

Right. But like coming from like a position of like, God, I need this, I need that, I want this, I want that, whatever our asking prayers um sound like to being like, God, show me more of you. God, expose to me the the things in my heart.

SPEAKER_05 31:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

Um, Lord, um refine me. God, you know, and the put the posture of our prayer, the language of our prayer begins to shift. And so there's, I want to think that there is a point where our prayers go from being like, well, God help me, right? Because becoming, becoming, like I said before, comes with a decision.

SPEAKER_04 31:23

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Decision that I'm not going to or I am going to shift my perspective in this way, or I don't want to live in this way anymore. I'm making a choice to whatever the case may be. Yeah. Right. And so it goes from God help me to God shape me. So how do you move? Like, what advice would you give someone to move from their prayers being those like self-centered prayers, like God help me, to being okay, God shape me in the way that you're trying to mold and fashion me so that I like so as I continue to learn more about me.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:58

You know?

SPEAKER_02 31:59

Yeah. Um, the it comes with continuous prayer, number one.

SPEAKER_03 32:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:05

Um, because if you're always approaching it as something that is task-related or you know, you're doing it out of routine, whatever, if you're not taking it as seriously in a place where God can grow you, you're always gonna come with an ask.

SPEAKER_03 32:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:21

And so it never shifts. But the more you stay with him and you talk to him, right? He then shifts you from always asking him for things and becoming more selfless.

SPEAKER_03 32:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

And so really saying, okay, my I realized one day my prayer changed when I said, God, what's on your heart? Ooh. Where I stopped asking for stuff. And I'm like, you know what? Because now that I know you, I realize that you're the God who knows all. You see all. You actually put all of this together. You already know the plan. Right. Number one. You already know, you already knew I was gonna talk to you about this. My God. And so if you are all seeing, you are all knowing, you are fully aware of all things at all times. Why am I even coming with a list anyway? Right. I need to be saying, God put some your heart so that you can show me and then God help me fall in line. Woo! And again, that comes with as you grow with him, he brings you to that place. You're gonna talk so much in prayer that you'll realize you'll run out of things to talk about because your questioning is going to stop. You're gonna get tired.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Yeah, and then and then and then do we stop coming to God? Like, do we stop praying?

SPEAKER_01 33:30

That part. Some people stop because they feel like they're not getting an answer.

SPEAKER_00 33:35

It's like, oh, but that's real. No, that's real. So it's or it's like, well, I'm waiting for you to do this.

SPEAKER_02 33:40

So I mean, and God's like, you're waiting for me to do this, but what about what I need you to understand about me? Because do you even know that I've already answered or that I will answer in my time, not yours.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

Here's the thing though, it's in understanding what what God wants you to know about him that you learn about you. Woo! Help me, God! And it that I mean, that's a huge realization. Yeah, that's a huge realization because we are in the land in the time of the chat GPTs. Ooh, my God. And and then things and other things, not just that, but other things like culture, yeah, and other things like voices and family or history, whatever the case is, is trying to tell us who we are.

SPEAKER_04 34:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

Yep. Instead, we should be sitting, yeah, sitting with God and saying, What say you, Lord? Yes. You know, and it's like, okay, well, what what do you what do you want me to be concerned with?

SPEAKER_04 34:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

That's a huge that's a that's a major shift.

SPEAKER_02 34:48

Well, Jenny, you just brought up something because you're making me go back a little bit to the fact that through my process of uh becoming through the vehicle of prayer, God was literally healing the place of where I thought I knew myself. Yeah. And like who I became then was really not who I was supposed to be. Right. It really wasn't what God was seeing for me. Um, he had to teach me who I was in him. And I think that was really major and it brought a place of healing. And so I would say to those that feel like, you know, things are super messy or they don't know where to start and all of that, like really understanding God's gonna deal with that. Yeah, and he's going to heal you and show you things that you didn't even know about yourself that he needs you to know.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

So basically, you unlearned yourself.

SPEAKER_02 35:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

I unlearned myself.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

You unlearned yourself and you did that through prayer. Yeah. God had to expose you in prayer. So you're saying if you didn't take the time in prayer, you wouldn't have been able to know you.

unknown 36:00

No.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

But it's only because of what he said about you. Exactly. Oh my God. And how would I know if I didn't talk to him? If hello? How would you know if you didn't talk to him? And then here's the thing: so many of us are looking for ourselves.

SPEAKER_04 36:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:13

We are trying to answer the question, who am I?

SPEAKER_04 36:16

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 36:17

But if we would take time to sit in prayer, to stop asking the questions, and to actually listen to the heart of God and what God actually says about us, so much would be revealed. And then not only that, having to settle with what God has to say about you. That part. That's that's another thing. Understanding what God says about you, knowing what God says about you, but allowing that to settle in your heart and accept that, that's a completely different thing. But you had to at least first sit with Him. There it is. My Jesus. You took us there. Oh, Holy Spirit, we thank you. Okay, so in building intimacy um in prayer through prayer, we had to learn. And this is something that I don't think we've ever explored until we actually got to this place in our process the understanding of surrender.

SPEAKER_04 37:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

Um so what does surrender sound like in prayer?

SPEAKER_02 37:18

Ooh, for me, surrender sounded like crying uncontrollably. Yeah. Um, surrender sounded like a wail at times. Surrender sounded like stillness at times. Yeah. Um, where there the the sound was no sound.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

If that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 37:43

Wow. Okay. It was it was knowing that if I sat still enough, um, that whatever my mind was processing, my heart was processing, God already knew what that was. I didn't have to do anything. He said, be still. Be still. That's what he said. That's what that's the word. Ooh, be still and know that I am God. Yeah. And so that would, that's what surrender sounded like to me. And there was a um, what do you call it? There was a release in that. There was um, I'm looking forward. There was freedom in that. Um, yeah, and it felt good.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Yeah. I mean, same for me. I mean, for a long time before I got intimate in the action and in the nuances of prayer, it was my sound that prayed for me. Like I have nothing else but a wail. Yeah. I remember I used to come to church all the time and just start wailing. But it was, it was, it was my heart speaking to God because I didn't know how to put things into words.

SPEAKER_04 38:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

Um, and I was telling you earlier, surrender was being frustrated.

SPEAKER_04 38:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

In my frustration, and I knew that the Lord could deal with my frustrations. I was hurt, I was upset, I was feeling a type of way, and I was just like, okay, yeah, this is me trusting you, God. Like knowing that He and that was in prayer. That wasn't outside of prayer, that was very much in prayer. In my car, yeah, it like crying, and it was like, I this is, I know I need to trust you. I don't know how to trust you, but I'm trying. So I'm this is my prayer is that I'm trying. Yeah, please.

SPEAKER_02 39:22

Yeah, there's an example. I'm hearing you, and I'm also seeing a visual for those of you that have seen the movie The Color Purple. I'm thinking of Nettie when she was yelling out, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

That's literally what my heart posture was. Yes, and sometimes, and that's okay. Yeah, like God is big enough to deal with that emotion for you. It don't have to be pretty.

SPEAKER_04 39:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

Even in the becoming, as we're letting things go, as we're surrendering some stuff, it's gonna be ugly. Surrender is not pretty. That's what surrender's not pretty. No, I know it's pretty when it's on the conference flyer, but it's not pretty. Surrender.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

Listen, we know how to mask some stuff up, don't we?

SPEAKER_00 40:03

We sure do. We really, really do. And we come in all pretty. The surrender that the Lord wants is a very ugly, yeah, very broken, yeah, um, like a laid-down posture of I like I don't have any more. Yeah, I I can't do this anymore. I love when people I hear the phrase, when you come to the end of yourself.

SPEAKER_01 40:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

It's like the Lord was like, I've been waiting.

SPEAKER_01 40:33

Got you, right where I need you.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

Got you, right where I need you. Right now, now you can hear me. You know? And so, yeah, so surrender, surrender is ugly. Yeah. Surrender is ugly, essentially. Um, is it possible? Do you think it's possible to pray and still not trust God fully?

SPEAKER_02 40:50

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

Okay, well, what helps us bridge that gap, would you say?

SPEAKER_02 40:54

Um, I think it's through prayer um that that trust is developed, and you'll realize that as you're obedient to what comes out of the time, that continues to help. You can't just stay in a place of saying that you trust God and then trying to be in control of the situation. Yeah. Because you're gonna get to that point of desperation. You are, but you know, we're human, and so it's going to happen. But I think we need to consistently surrender that to God.

SPEAKER_03 41:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:27

Continue to cast our cares on him because he cares for us. Yeah. So much so that he understands. Woo! He understands how we feel, he understands, you know, the things that we're gonna go through and how it's going to be hard to trust him.

SPEAKER_03 41:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:40

He's given us his word to go back to, to remember what he's saying, what he said.

SPEAKER_03 41:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:46

Um, because his word is alive, so it's constantly speaking. And so he gives us that. If we're not going to it, we can't be strengthened. For sure. We can't have the hope. We can't have the trust. We can say we want it all day, but it's not gonna fall in line until we do.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

Yeah. What I hear you saying too, and how I'm processing your response is he is the burden carrier.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

Yep, it is.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

He is the burden carrier, and he can carry that burden of even like mistrust or not being able to. He can carry that. Yeah, he that is crazy. He's not phased by it. That is crazy to me. Yeah. Because there's other people that we would be in we would be in relationship with that they get upset, that they get frustrated, whatever. You don't trust me. What you mean you don't trust me? Yeah, the Lord's like, you don't trust me. Well, watch me work. Yeah, you know. That's it. Watch me work, you know, and and he doesn't give up on us. Yeah, he's not intimidated, he's not shaken by our mistrust.

SPEAKER_04 42:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

If anything, I am the burden carrier, yeah, and I'm just awaiting for you to put that burden on me. Watch me carry it. Yeah, and so bridging that gap looks like still like still going to him.

SPEAKER_04 42:55

Yeah.

unknown 42:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:57

Man. So even in the spaces where we're just like, God, I don't even know if you can do it. Yeah. That's a real prayer. It is. That's a real prayer to be like a real prayer to even still pray. I don't even know if you can do it. But I'm gonna say it anyway. But I'm gonna say it anyway. That I mean, but that's such a beautiful place to be, especially in what we need for our becoming. So many people are becoming uh or trusting the Lord or moving through their becoming journey, coming out of really tough things. Hurt, pain, disappointment, um, grief. That's a tough one, uh, health issues, yeah, uh, financial burdens, relationship strains, people are walking hard stuff.

SPEAKER_02 43:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

And we need God.

SPEAKER_02 43:50

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 43:51

Because even though that those things are a part of our story, it's not the end of our story. That's right. And so, where is God taking me? On this journey.

SPEAKER_04 44:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

Where where what is God producing out of me through this? I mean, the Bible talks about endurance.

SPEAKER_04 44:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:07

You know, and so, like, God, give me the endurance to continue this race because there is something that you put in me. There's something that you want from me. Um, I'm thinking of Jeremiah 29, 29, 11. Like, you know, I know the plans that I have for you. Yeah. He has, he has more for you. And they're good things. Yep. Right? All these things that we might have experienced, they grieve the Lord.

SPEAKER_04 44:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

And he wants us to experience good things. And it's prayer. Yeah. It's prayer that's going to be, I love how we keep saying it, the vehicle that's going to take us from the place of was to the place of be.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

You know?

SPEAKER_02 44:45

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 44:46

So good. So, so good. Okay. So if you um, if you what am I trying to say? What am I trying to say? All right. So, what do you want the women who are listening to unlearn about prayer?

SPEAKER_02 45:06

Um, I want them, I want you all to learn that prayer is not a last resort.

SPEAKER_03 45:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:15

Because many of us, um, myself included, at one point, just thought that, you know, well, I guess I'll pray about it. Well, no, that should be the go-to, right? Right, right. You should be excited to be able to go to a place of prayer. Yeah. Um, it shouldn't be the last thing that you think about. Um, I want you to know and unlearn that you don't have to have the perfect words. Um, however, you come to God in your communication with him is authentic to you. He understands that. Yeah. And he will speak back to you in a way that you can understand and get your attention. Um, and that you don't have to be seasoned, you don't have to be extra mature and all this stuff. You don't have to be what you think you're seeing in other people. Yeah, that's good. You just have to be you. Yeah. And however God is going to use that moving forward um is however he uses that.

SPEAKER_03 46:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

Um, so yeah, those those are the things that I really want. And God's not, he is not paying attention to your performance in prayer or like grading you on something. I need you to break some things off the people.

SPEAKER_00 46:32

Break some things off the people. Prayer has become performative. What? It ain't even for the like what?

unknown 46:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:41

That sounds crazy, but no, it is. Yeah. Because people are grading you.

unknown 46:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:46

People are like, ooh, you're oily.

SPEAKER_01 46:49

Oh, because that's the word of the year. Oily.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

Ooh, you're oily. Oh, she's oily. I'm gonna ask her to pray for me.

SPEAKER_02 46:56

Yeah, oh, that's powerful. What's powerful about it? Was it the sound? Is the sound moving, God? Free the people, please. Or is it your heart posture?

SPEAKER_00 47:06

Is it your heart posture? Because that's really what it is. Yeah. Because God, I mean, I know I'm a yellow, but you know, like I it really doesn't matter. Yeah, it's it's the position of your heart that really grabs the attention of God.

SPEAKER_04 47:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:18

Yeah. And so let's not be so uh, what's the word? Um so enthralled. Yes. Enthralled. Let's not be so enthralled with how someone shows up in prayer. Yeah and thinking that their prayers are for you. Like, first of all, I don't let everybody pray for me. Listen. But you know what I mean? Wisdom, wisdom is key. Yes. Um, y'all need to stop listening to these TikTok prophets. Come on. And letting them pray over you. Come on. You don't know what these people is carrying. But, you know, being wise, obviously.

SPEAKER_04 47:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:53

And then um, you know, not being so like caught up in the fluff.

SPEAKER_04 47:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:58

And knowing that you can go to God yourself. Yeah. The Bible says the veil was torn. I mean torn. Torn. So that we can have direct access to the father. Yeah. Why am I going through you? Why?

SPEAKER_04 48:12

You don't go through anybody.

SPEAKER_00 48:14

You don't have to go through nobody. Literally, the Lord in his sacrifice literally gave you direct access to his father so that you can be in communion with him directly by yourself. Right. And so don't be scared. Don't be scared to pray. Don't be scared to, you know, to go to him in prayer and tell him exactly how you feel. Be honest. Be honest. Be honest. Be honest. Be vulnerable. Be um authentic. Yeah. Uh okay, so how can someone build, as we are wrapping up a little bit, how do you, how would you say someone could build a sustainable prayer rhythm? Now, this is you. Like this, you're the prayer fluencer. Yeah. This is what you do. You teach on prayer.

SPEAKER_03 48:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:00

And so what are some things that you think are key for people to building a sustainable rhythm? Yeah. Something that I can sustain. Because I think we hear, whether in church and or through, I don't know, podcasts, whatever, that prayer should feel or look or sound or be a particular type of way, but it may not be sustainable for me.

SPEAKER_02 49:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:22

Right. So how would what would you say?

SPEAKER_02 49:25

Um, well, I'm a very simplistic type of person. Um, I love going back to the root of things, back to the basics, um, not doing too much because it's hard to remain consistent in things that are like really uh, I want to use the word systematic. Yeah. We see a lot of the aesthetic on TikTok. My God. All of all of other social media platforms. I know the aesthetic of what it looks like to have, you know, a prayer life or Bible study and things of that nature. So we're grasping at all these things and they're fun, they look good. You know, we feel like, oh, you know, I have to do it like this person, but then you notice you start to do it, and it doesn't last long.

SPEAKER_03 50:05

Right.

SPEAKER_02 50:05

Um, and normally, if you're not sticking with a thing for a few weeks, it's not gonna become a habit anyway.

SPEAKER_03 50:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:10

Um, so I like to bring it back to a simple framework, which is really four steps that I have that I started with personally. And it's one, figuring out a daily time that I want to pray. And so, what's gonna work best for my schedule? What do my days look like? It may switch up, but just being intentional about a time that you pick could be morning, afternoon, or evening, and something that you can really stick to.

SPEAKER_03 50:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:36

Um, it has to work.

SPEAKER_03 50:38

It has to work.

SPEAKER_02 50:38

And if you need to adjust it, adjust it, but make sure you're adjusting well. So that means setting the time in your phone, making, you know, an alarm for this particular time. Yeah. If you have a busy day the following day, okay, make the adjustment, but just make sure that time is in there. So that's number one.

SPEAKER_03 50:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:53

Number two, making sure you have a prayer space. And so setting aside an actual space for your prayer time. Make sure it's quiet and that it's free of a lot of distractions that you may face. Your phone is not gonna go in this area. Maybe it's not a good idea, or maybe you put it on silent. I mean. And so anything that's gonna take your attention away from speaking to God, you just wanna make sure that place is conducive for that. And three, you want to set a prayer goal. You know, who are you praying for? What are you praying for? Um, what are you praying about? Maybe it's not, you know, we talked about having a list of things. It's maybe it's not that, but what is it that you need to bring to God? Maybe it's God, show me me right now as you mature and be specific about what it is. Don't play around with it because this is your time.

SPEAKER_03 51:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:40

And then number four, just remembering that this time is undivided devotion. And so you're paying attention to what God is saying to you and knowing that this isn't just you talking. This is taking time to hear from God because He's gonna talk back to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so leaving time for that moment to happen. It's not just, you know, like you on the phone talking to your friend, da-da-da-da-da, and then you just hang up by. Oh no, you're gonna stay and you're gonna listen for a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 52:04

Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_02 52:04

So those are the four things that help me just get a good routine and a good habit down.

SPEAKER_00 52:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:09

And now every day looks different for me. For sure. But at least I have this as a foundation.

SPEAKER_00 52:13

Yeah, that's good. I think that will definitely help a lot of people and help free people too, because there's a lot of misconceptions and there's things that we want that we hear that we want to strive to that we just we're not there yet.

SPEAKER_04 52:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:26

And that's okay. Um, like, you know, sometimes people hear like, once you wake up in the morning, you gotta pray. And that that is very good practice, but what if that's not someone's life? You know what I mean? Like, what if they got a a three-month-old or whatever the case may be, right? And so, like, you know, and and just making sure that they have a space, and sometimes, you know, saying, okay, this time fluctuates, but there is still gonna be a time where I'm gonna engage with the Lord.

SPEAKER_04 52:51

Right.

SPEAKER_00 52:51

Um, and so I love that um that even the tips that you gave weren't systematic, yeah, but they were they gave room for fluidity.

SPEAKER_04 53:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 53:00

Um, the purpose is to engage in prayer.

SPEAKER_04 53:02

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 53:03

It's not to be um, not to be so rigid in how we come to God in prayer, um, because then we're just working. Right. And then we're not listening, or and it becomes again performative.

SPEAKER_04 53:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:14

Um, and so the Lord, I don't, I don't think the Lord shows up in that personally. But so it's again the posture of our heart, setting up space for our heart to be softened to be able to hear God. For sure. Um, Jazz, I'm so glad that you came on the pod. This is so good. This was so good. I am so um grateful for your yes to to coming on and supporting me and and you know, speaking to women and helping to um to free people um in this in the as they continue on their becoming journey. And I want to just publicly say thank you for supporting me in my becoming journey. So thank you so much. And I'm sure I'll have you back on the podcast again soon. But any last words you want to give to the people?

SPEAKER_02 54:05

Oh, last words. Let God speak to you, let him have his time with you. Don't be afraid. Let him open you up to things that you didn't even think about, things that you didn't even expect. Let him heal the places that need uh his touch. Let him really bind up the wounds that some of you have had that just need his hand on it. Let him do what you can't do. Yeah, let him relieve you of the control and the pressure that you allow to be on you because you think that it's better than what God can do. Um, let him be God in your life. And yeah, that's what I give to you.

SPEAKER_00 54:47

Yeah, that sounded like a benediction to me. Amen. There's one thing that I hope that you take from this conversation. It's that prayer was never meant to be perfect. It's meant to be real. You don't need the right words, you don't need to have it all together. You just have to come. Come with fear, come with questions, come with the things that you don't even know how to say. And trust that God is able to meet you there and hold you there and to give you what you need in the middle of whatever you're carrying. Because prayer isn't just about what you're saying, it's about what God is making available to you in return. So wherever you are in your becoming, keep praying. Not perfectly, but honestly. And if this episode encouraged you, be sure to share it with someone who may need it. And wherever you're listening from, leave a review to let me know how much you're enjoying the podcast. Make sure you're following me on crowned x brave on Instagram so that you can stay connected with everything that I'm building here. I love you guys, and remember, you are crowned, you are brave, and I'll see you guys in the next episode.