The Bible Episode - Where Do You Even Start?!

If you've ever picked up a Bible and immediately felt lost you're not alone. In this episode, Jim and Larry break down the basics: what the Old Testament and New Testament actually are, why both matter, and where Jesus fits in. They talk through why there are different versions (yes, there are a lot), which one might actually be readable for a normal person, and why starting in the New Testament,  specifically the Gospel of John, might be the best first move you make.  They both share a Bible story they are fond of what they've recently learned about Jesus from the Bible.

Just a starting point for anyone who's curious.

PS.  Jim shares a "God moment" in the intro so be sure to check it out!

Check out You Version Bible App at www.youversion.com

The Story:  The Bible as One Continuing Story of God and His People by Zondervan Staff

https://faithcurious.buzzsprout.com/2569002

Reach Jim & Larry at faithcuriouspodcast@gmail.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Hey everyone, welcome to Faith Curious. So, what makes this conversation about Faith different? Hey, we're just two guys with no hidden agenda. What you see is what you get.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

It is a brand new day. Welcome to everybody tuning in. Uh, I am with uh podcast legend, uh Jim McCauley. Uh, how are you doing? Welcome to uh Faith Curious, my friend.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Podcast legend. Wow. Uh amen. Amen. I think nothing less. Uh yeah, I got I I got a little bit of problem with that because now I think we're lying to people. And on a on a faith podcast, we're literally lying to people.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Well, I mean, it's it's all you know, beholder, yeah, the beholder. Uh, I am well known as the other guy, Larry Horton. Uh it's nice to be with you. Uh good to see you. This is our uh our our first uh intercontinental uh cross country uh uh podcast. Thank you very much for uh holding the fort down last episode, my friend.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Woof. That was a uh that was a solo experience, uh which I wasn't ready for, um, but uh but happy to do it. Glad we're we're past that and I'm looking at you and you are safe and secure in Ohio, um, and all that good stuff. But I wanted to uh I want to share something with you and with our with our audience, um, because I had this uh I had this thing happen to me. It relates to what we're talking about today, which is going to be the Bible, right? Um okay, bring it. And I had this thing that happened to me is actually almost a year ago, which is why I thought of it. Uh and so a little background. I, you know, I there were years where I was locked in every morning, getting up, my routine, and part of that was reading the Bible, and part of that was I had some other like uh meditations, you know, daily devotional stuff that I was reading. Okay. And then I don't know, man, because because life does what it does. Like, I got out of that. Like I got out of my routine. Yeah. Um, actually, I know what happened. It it be it started to feel like I was checking the boxes, like I had to do it, otherwise, you know, like bad shit was gonna happen, right? Yeah, yeah. So I realized I was doing it for the wrong reason, so whatever, I got out of it, and I had the hardest time getting back, like the hardest time. Just getting back, you know. So about a year ago, I was actually at a uh Bible study for church, and and one guy mentions this book, Jesus Calling, which is like a a daily devotional, right? And I'm like, yeah, Jesus Calling, and it's just one day, you know, a paragraph, whatever, and it it just helps you connect with the word. Um, but I'm like, I that was part of my gig. Like, I used to read Jesus Calling. I'm like, I got that, you know what? I think I'm gonna do that. So I don't know, it was a week later or something. I walk into spare bedroom, there's a bookshelf, I pull off the Jesus Calling book out of the bookshelf, and there's a bookmark in it. I'm like, this just thought popped into my head. I'm like, how cool would it be if the bookmark was on today? And the day was May 15th, which is why I know it's a year day, right? No way, what so I like this just a random thought. How cool would it be? Oh, that'd be so cool, ha ha ha. I I open it to the bookmark, and I kid it is May 15th. Shut up, yeah, and I'm like, I'm like, come on, you know, all right. So then I read it. All right, now now you didn't remember where you put the bookmark. This was purely chance. Like, no, I there's no way. I mean, it was it's probably been five years since I've opened this book. Oh maybe three, I don't know. I have no idea, right? Um, so I open it up to today, that day, May 15th, and this is what it says spending time alone with me is essential for your well-being.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Okay, and and okay, so all right, let's break that down. Yeah, let's break that down because I'm I'm having some thoughts about that. What do you think that says to you?

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Well, I think I think God talks to all of us in different ways. I do, I truly believe it talks to us in different ways. Yes, um, some people hear a voice, some people hear dream, you know, get messages and dreams, some people get I'm more of like a I get a feeling, right? And I think maybe that's what like it was just some random, funny little thought in my head, ha ha ha, how cool would that be? And and sure enough, um, and and so so he's talking to us. Question is are we open to hearing him? That's what I take. That's such a big question, man. That's what I take from this, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Yeah, yeah. And very rarely, uh in no one's certain terms, is it's so black and white, like that is such an obvious, hey, let's get back together and have a conversation. The providence that's involved there is pretty impressive, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

You know, but I mean, I I I have it in me also to be like, wow, what a coincidence! Ha ha, that is so cool, and just kind of dismiss it, right? Um, I could like you know, that's in my human nature. Um, and thankfully I didn't. Like, I I I took it. I'm like, all right, like this is you know, this is good for me, and this is your way of telling me. Good to have you back.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

I I love that on so many levels, man. That is like very rarely, first of all, is is it that is that straightforward, but it is absolutely about us. I mean, it's a two-way street. So not only do we need to be, and this is what we talked about in previous episodes, we obviously need to be active and involved, but there's a huge listening component, too. That's that's not a that's not a small deal, right? You ever hear that joke about the guy on the roof and the flood? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

But tell our listeners, tell our listeners, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Okay, there's there's there's a a flood, and this guy is trying to he goes to his roof in order to avoid getting hurt, and he he prays to God. He says, Hey God, please save me from this from dying from this flood. I'm on the roof of my house in the middle of this flood. So, and along comes uh a guy in a in a boat. He says, Hey, you need help? I can I don't have a lot of room, but I can throw you a life preserver. He goes, No, no, I'm I'm waiting for God to save me. God's gonna save me. It's it's it's uh you take care of yourself, thank you. Another guy comes over, it's a little bit like a big raft, and he's got a few people, and it's like, all right, hey, uh you need help, you're on the roof. Like, you know, we're we're here. He come on, he goes, No, nope, thanks. Uh, God is gonna save me. All right, if you can have your way, and they take off. And then a helicopter comes by, and this helicopter's like, you know, calling down on the microphone, hey, we're here to help you and save you from off the roof in the middle of the flood. And the guy's like, no, thanks. I'm waiting for God to save me. Eventually, the storm goes crazy, he gets knocked off the roof, he drowns, and he's in heaven, and he's like, God, what happened? I was praying to you to save me. What's going on? He goes, What do you mean? I sent you three people, you didn't take any of them. So, yeah, I mean, it's like, are we listening to God? Yeah, so yeah, that was a horrible delivery. I'm not going in a stand up anytime soon.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

No, it wasn't it wasn't a bad delivery. Um, I especially was enamored with the uh helicopter microphone voice. I think yeah, yeah, you like that?

SPEAKER_00 8:14

I added that in.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

Well, and that was on the fly. I just thought about it. And listeners, he had his hand over his mouth like to get the muffle thing going. No, I thought I thought that was good. No, but that is like right, like we have to be open to God talking to us, and then aware enough to accept that well, maybe this is one of those times, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:37

And and so, how do you have a conversation with somebody who's a celestial being? The answer to that is is the one the one guidebook that everybody says, Hey, I wish there wasn't some instruction book for life, but when you actually show them what it is, they have a big problem with it, and and so it as we're having a conversation uh with God, we've got very little to go on because I don't know about you, but I wasn't there when he actually was walking the earth during those 30 years. So uh, all right. So, what do I got? I got I got this book, but uh have you ever tried to read that thing?

SPEAKER_01 9:18

You're talking about the Bible, yeah. Well, yeah, of course, right? I mean, how to go, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, um it it's hard, right? Um, and it could be hard for a lot of different reasons. It can be hard because the my first experience was not my first experience, that's not accurate, but as a young adult, I recall like this yearning inside me at different times to read the Bible. And it finally one day I'm like, all right, today's gonna be the day. And I might have told the story before. Um, I I grab the Bible off the bookshelf, uh, sit down on the couch, open it up, and like it's the King James Version, which if if you don't aren't familiar with the King James Version, think 1600 old English, like it's it's like you're reading Shakespeare, right? Thou, the, uh, thyself, begotten, cometh, um, whosoever, you know, like, and that and those are like the ones that I could actually understand, like I could do the math on those. Um, but hard to relate to a th combo this everywhere, unless you have a lisp, I guess. Right. Why don't you just say come to me? Why are you saying cometh? Like, why do why I don't understand cometh?

SPEAKER_00 10:35

Um yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

But so I open it up and it's King James, and I don't know, it was I don't know if I if I stuck it out for 15 seconds or 30 seconds or whatever, but I close it up, put it up back on the bookshelf, and I'm like, okay, I I I I can't read this by I can't read the Bible. Now I had no clue that there were different versions, right? And and so I think a lot of people just don't don't have a clue. Like, you know, there's there's ways you can go about it to make it easier, make it more meaningful. Um, but that's one way that it's hard, just depends on what version you happen to grab.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

There might be some listeners right now who are thinking to themselves, different versions, like they have like what you literally just presented is something they've never heard of. I mean, I don't want to take that for granted, you know.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

No, totally, totally. Um, and we'll we'll get into that. Um, you know, actually, so yeah, one of the things that uh I've been kicking around is uh is you know, so we record this every two weeks and in the interim doing like little short little, you know, less than five minute um YouTube, you know, blasts. And this will be one of them, right? Why are there different versions of the Bible? Okay. Perfect. But also great plug for our YouTube channel. Good to go, right there. Nice work. Not to not to uh not to be like, well, I can't answer that because it's on the YouTube channel, so you're gonna have to check into YouTube in three days and check it out.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

It's it's our marketing 101 right there, bro.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

I hate that you know, sidetrack, right? I hate on the news when they're like, you know, horrible virus, uh, you know, disease running through the community. You know, watch in 30 minutes to find out how you can be safe. I'm like, if it's that big a deal, maybe you should tell us all now, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:19

She missed the newspaper right there.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

Yeah, yeah. Anyway, um, different versions. Uh, different versions are written to different audiences, right? It's not different stories, like things don't change, but they you know, someone realizes hey, the the younger generation, you know, needs to it to be written and told so they can understand it. The way back in the day, it wasn't in English, you know. And they said, Well, we have to translate this with an English version, right? Um, you know, so that that's how that's what a version is, and there's 400 of them. Okay, so that's another thing. Well, that's conservatively 450, but you can make the case that there's that there's more than that. But so not only are there different versions, but now there's 400. And like, okay, like so what? I don't do King James, but is the one I'm gonna grab, you know, am I gonna going to understand that? What was the very first translated language then? If it wasn't English, well, I mean, the old testament was in Hebrew, I believe, and the New Testament was in Greek, and and then like the people they read one or the other or neither, and so that was then translated to Latin. Yeah, all right. Um but wait, before we go on, like so. I mean, what are other other ways that people might find the Bible hard? Like, why why is this a hard thing to read a book?

SPEAKER_00 13:52

First of all, there's testaments, all right. Like, what's that? Like that, okay. I need a little map.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

That's a weird word, too, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Right, yeah, and and not like every other book in existence, the Bible is is wonderfully like disjointed, it it doesn't track from point A to point B, right? Which, especially in the Old Testament, is super confusing. So you're now we've identified the language, we've identified that the story is kind of all over the place until you get to the new testament, and even then you can make an argument. And then the third thing is the old testament has some pretty crazy claims, and so uh that that tends to you know spark some doubt. Uh, I you know, it's it's there's there's a lot going on there, and you're thinking to yourself, okay, uh, I don't know if I'm really with this, it's hard to relate to it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

But honestly, like before you even before you even get it's a great point, but before you even get there, like I don't want to gloss over New Testament, Old Testament. Like, what what does that even mean, right? So you I give you this book, I'm like, here you want to know Jesus? This Bible, you place it in front of me, and yeah, it's got two halves, you know. The if first of all, if I give it to you, you're gonna open up the cover and start on page one, and that's really if you want to get to know Jesus, that's not the place to start. Okay, so again, may maybe you got you pull the exact right version off the shelf, but you open a page one now, now Genesis, the creation of earth, Adam and Eve, like that's all good stuff. But to your point, pretty quickly, you know, there's some stuff in there that um you're just scratching your head and you don't like very quickly, you don't understand how this relates to Jesus. So that's like, you know, that's like I think one of the first things to people is yes, if you want to get to know Jesus, read the Bible, start in the New Testament because where you're going to find Jesus, not that he's not in the old, but he is everywhere in the New Testament. That that is the story of his life. There's four gospels written by four different people, then there's a bunch of letters and other books that are written by people that that knew him or knew some that knew like it there, it's all about Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

And the historical act there's a lot of history, obviously, but the historical accuracy of the New Testament is fairly everybody kind of concedes to yes, these things, these people, these locations, all of that happened. Um, little here's a little jeopardy fact for you. How many years went by from the end of the old testament to the beginning of the new testament? 400-ish. 400, yeah. Well, look at you. It's actually gotta uh phrase it in the form of a question, though. Nice track. Um, I would I would have given it to you, but you didn't do that, right? Um okay, so so that's kind of like the the old testament is really what um our friends uh in in Judaism really subscribe to, right? That's that's their foundation.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

The the the Jewish people, right, um had uh their scripture, right? And there's this idea that the the the old testament, the scriptures, and the new testament, they were two separate books, and at some point along the way, the decision was made to combine them, right? And some people have an argument like that, you know, that's one of the things that makes this so why are we combining these books? Because I bet I don't know this, but I bet if you asked a Jewish person if they call that the Old Testament, I I don't think they do because right testament is covenant, it's a promise, and the old testament is promises between God and the Jewish people, right? Yeah, so there's there God makes promises. If you do this, this will happen, right? And it's agreements between the Jewish people. Um, well, then these 400 years pass, and Jesus comes and he's like, Hey, got a new agreement, right? Got a new agreement, believe in me. You know, the old testament, there are all kinds of rules and the Ten Commandments, but there were 600 some rules that that they had to follow. And Jesus basically said, Look, listen, let's forget the rules. I'm gonna give you two love God with all your heart and all your mind, and love others as I have loved you, like that covers everything.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Which is the like if you've been following rules your entire life in the ju in the in the Jewish faith, and and then the guy comes along and he's like, All right, yeah, it's it really is this simple. And by the way, I'm God, right, right.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

And so, like, I don't know. Um, like if you're Jewish and you have an opinion, you know, let me know. But I don't think that Jewish people ref refer to it as the old testament because that would that would infer that a newer, better thing came along, and they don't believe that, right? They don't believe that, which is fine, like that's their belief, right? Um, so that's why I say, like, man, if you just get the book, you'd open a page one that you know God is there, and you and there's history there, and and there's prophecies, there's things that are said that come true a thousand years later. So, like, it's a great, great story, it's great history, it does help you understand who God is, but you want to know Jesus starting the New Testament.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Now, have you have you I don't want to say conquered, have you uh have you read the entire Bible front to back kind of thing or or or studied it, I should say. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Oh no, I think well, no, first of all, I'm not a I I don't study uh it, I don't think. Yeah, yeah, I'd like to say I do, but I'm not a scholar, right? Um, no, I've tried, I've never read the entire Bible from Genesis book one all the way through. I've tried, um I and I got I got a good way through the old testament. Now I've read the New Testament front, you know, cover to cover, if you will, many times, right? Many times. Um, but the whole Bible, I no, I've read probably 85% of it, would be my guess.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

Um as as you're looking through this, um have you ever had somebody who's like quoted scripture at you? I I ask that because when that has happened to me, uh it's it's really off-putting.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

Um, and I'm a guy who likes the Bible, you know, and it's it's hilarious because it's almost like people weaponize it. Yeah, they they and and because you have books and verses, and people can pull out certain sections and then claim them to say things that they don't, right? Which I I really that's where the curiosity really needs to kick in high gear, if you ask me.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

Well, and it's like anything else, right? Again, um we're not scholars, right? But one thing I do know is you can't just take one verse, right? No, when when when someone points me to a verse, I need to go look at it, and I need to read, you know, probably um, if it's in the middle of the chapter, I need to read the whole chapter, right? Because I need to understand like what's what's going on in this story at this time. Who are these people? Why are they saying these things, you know? Um, because things are misquoted and taken out of context all the time, and it's easy to do, it's really easy to do if you know what you're doing. Um, so you know, I think it's just important to go in and look at it and study it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

And and the other thing I think is fascinating is is when you uh when you read it in it and in its simplicity, uh you're uh um let me let me take an example of a Story here. All right. The woman at the well. All right. Jesus, for the first time, talks about how he's going to uh begin his ministry. And he starts with this woman at the well. Where do you find this? You're in you're in the Gospel of John, uh, chapter four. You're reading a story, and and and okay, Jesus has a conversation with the woman at the well, and then she goes and she's really happy about uh connecting with Christ. And in that simplicity, you're not getting nearly the fullness and the richness of that entire story. Why was she at the well by herself? Culturally, you don't know that that was kind of a no-no. Culturally, you also don't know that people didn't get their water during the middle of the day. They got it, you know, when it was cool in the morning. Okay, so now why is she alone? Why is she getting in the middle of the day? Like these things are important. Why is Jesus alone with this woman? Which is also something that was unheard of. These are things that we just don't know. Uh, I at least I didn't until I had a conversation with you know people who had knowledge and and and could kind of flesh this out. And then suddenly a simple story that that had significance in and of itself, when you add the context and you get the richness and you really see all the nuance, suddenly it's it's it's such a more powerful situation. And that's why you know you got to be really careful when folks are quoting Bible verses at you and stuff. If you don't have the context and you don't have the breadth of the entire situation, it can get lost. Like the message that they are purporting might not necessarily be at all what the what the meaning of the text was. And that's where I think it's another relationship builder, because now that I understand, all right, you know, it was not unintentional that God met her at this space in this time and chose her to begin his ministry in a such a symbolic, very powerful way. Again, similar to coming into the world in a very humble means, right? As he's as he's showing this up, you you see the intentionality, you see the roadmap, you see where he's at, and it and it is even more powerful. And that is how you can just see the humility and just the the the benevolence and the love. And that's that to me, you know, when you when you see that and you delve into it, now you have that relationship again with Christ, and you're like, Okay, I I see what you're trying to do. Earlier, we were talking about how do you have a conversation with somebody who's not here? That is that conversation, that is that back and forth, and that is that relationship.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Yeah, and I'm you know, so like we're we're trying to make the point. Like, if you want to get to know Jesus, be in the Bible. This is where you will learn about Jesus. This story is a great example, right? Um, everything you just said, she's not supposed to be there, he's not supposed to be talking to her culturally. Why is she there at this time of day? You know, it doesn't make sense. Um, the story goes on, and I'm not gonna quote it, but just kind of you know, the story goes on where he um explains in so many words that he is Christ, right? He is this this the reveal, the yeah, and um, and she says she makes some kind of comment about her being there and her husband's not there, and Jesus comes back and says, Well, yeah, because you don't have a husband, you matter of fact, you've had six or something like that, right? I'm not getting the deep, you know, something like that. Um, and and I forget how she responds, but you know, she owns it and she's shameful, and he basically says, Hey, go and sin no more, right? So he explains who he is, he she doesn't disclose this to him, and he's not like a ha, you know, right? He's not putting it in her face, but he's also showing his true colors. He's showing, yeah, I know your heart, right? And so it's like God knows our heart. I know your heart, and yeah, you know, this is your road, but like I'm not gonna shame you, uh, you know, go and sin no more, and then from there, she goes back to the camp or the town or whatever the village, and tells everyone, I met God, yeah, right, and that this is him, and like the whole town like converts to you know, declares that Jesus is their Lord and Savior. So, like you want to get to know Jesus, yeah. Story, and it's not a story, like, oh, isn't this kind of cool? No, like this happened, right? Right. So, this this is how we get to know Jesus by just reading the Bible and understanding these stories.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

So, I was just talking about the women of the world. Is is there a is there a particular Bible story that hits you that's that sticks out and just really kind of connects? Kind of one of those uh Bible stories that punches you in the face.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

Um what I've learned about Jesus in the Bible is kind of what we were just talking about, that he knows he knows us, he knows what's in our heart, he knows what's going on with us, he knows our motivation, he knows when we're um, you know, we're not being honest, not being true, not living the life he wants us to live, right? And he he loves us. Like it never stops. Like he he's not like, all right, Jim, tell you what, you know, you go and uh um you know, stop stop uh lying to your wife for the next week, and we're good. But it better be a week. I need you to, I need you to be good for a week, right? No, that's not it. That's not it. He's like, he's like, okay, you you confessed, you repented, sin no more, right? Um so it's any of those stories. I do, you know, the the the one thing I often quote, it's the blind man, the story of the blind man, where you know, back then, if you were born with some type of uh physical deformity, it was a sign that like you were a sinner or your parents sinned, like there was some bad stuff that happened in your family, right? And this was uh like you caused it in some weird way, yeah. Right. But think about it like that's an old testament way of thinking, right? Like there's rules, and if you don't follow these rules, you know, this is an old testament way of thinking. Um, and there's a story about this he he is now an older man, I he's in his 20s or 30s or something like that, and maybe his 20s, and he's blind, and he has an encounter with Jesus, and Jesus heals him. And and Jesus says this a lot, right? After that, he's like, Don't tell anyone, yeah, like keep this to yourself, right? Um, and so the guy goes about his way, but like all these people in his life forever have known that he's blind, and all of a sudden he's not, and they're like, Hey, what you know, you were healed. Well, like who who? How? What happened? And the Pharisees, who are the religious leaders, they're um they're quizzing them, right? Because again, they're they're on high alert, you know, with people that um believe in Jesus, you know, because they're that because they want them to believe in them, right? The religious leaders, not Jesus, right? So they're they're quizzing them, and he's like, Hey man, like you were blind, and like what happened? Who and he said, I don't this guy, this guy came and he healed me. Who was he? I don't know, I don't know. And then he says, which I love this line, he says, Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, this is what I know. I was blind, now I see. Like, you know, like just that's yeah, yeah, that's it, and uh, yeah, so and that's the story kind of goes on, but I love it because it's just it's one of so many where he heals someone. Jesus isn't looking for anything, right? He just heals someone because he can see into his heart, you know, and and he heals him. Um, and uh doesn't want him to tell anyone, keep it to yourself, yeah. And then I believe I could be wrong, but I believe then he does bump into Jesus um again, and they have a moment, but um, yeah, no, later on, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so that that one that one I especially love. How about you?

SPEAKER_00 30:52

The uh there's a story about there's a guy who who is uh lame, he has no no use of his legs. There's some there was the again here here it is, right? The myth that you would go to this pool of water, and if you were the first one to get in the pool when it had had some kind of uh geyser thing go on, then uh you would be healed, right? So these people in this just complete, you know, what are you doing? They're jumping into this water, and and this guy can't even walk, so he's having to like crawl into this water. He's not like for years, the guy years. Imagine, like, we just can't have a we can't get a hold of this. It's like, yes, I want you to sit next to a pool of water and crawl into it at the at when you when you don't know when it's gonna go off. If they're gonna say go, and you have to race against like the rest of humanity in order to get healed, like, and then you just toil at that. That's like your job for years, and then here and again, he did it in in kind of a rebellious fashion on a Sunday when it wasn't supposed to, you know, this is the day of rest. He actually went out and and Jesus healed this guy and said, get up and walk. And he did, and and these, you know, the Pharisees that you talked about earlier were the ones who had the gall to say, uh, how could you heal him on a Sunday? That's illegal. Right. A rule because it's a it's a rule, it's one of the 600. And and and it just speaks to again, there's there's a lot of legalism out there, and I think that goes kind of back to that whole people quoting scripture at you. Like it does, it doesn't, it's not that it the legalism is what you need to kick to the curb, but like the the the message is hey, I am healing somebody by by loving them and caring for them. You might want to think about doing the same thing, right? And and and don't worry if it's not at one o'clock in the afternoon, or you know, don't and and it's when I was growing up, I had to wear certain clothes to church. Why? Because that's what you wore to church. Now I I wear shorts, like, and it's just like you know, I'm not thumbing my nose in anybody, but at the end of the day, it's like I think God really wants me to concentrate on the things that are significant and not get lost in the minutia.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

Well, and and what's significant? The significance of the two main literally, what you just said earlier, and the two main commandments love each other and love God, yeah, not in that order, but yeah, yeah, you know, well, and going going back to your story, and like and what did because I love that story too. The thing that Jesus said to him eventually, I love, right? Um, which is like he eventually again, he knows what's going on in this guy's heart, and he asks him a question. Remember, remember the question?

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Do you want to be healed?

SPEAKER_01 33:58

Do you want to be you want to be healed? Like, yeah, what a question. God will heal us, but he also does expect us to be an active part in our lives, and he's like, Hey man, you can be a victim, or you you can be you can be healed, and then the guy, sure enough, he is okay, and he and he's yeah, and he he's healed, right?

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Um now I will say this. This is now it's funny because it's like this is for the folks at home, they can't see this, but I'm actually looking at your bookcase behind you, and I see you know, it's just the second row down. I see there's a book called The Story. Ah, yeah. I nailed that early, and I'm because the reason why that was such a significant book for me, because that is uh uh what somebody did is they said, I'm gonna take chronologically everything that's going on in the Bible, I'm gonna set it up to where it's not all over the place, and I'm gonna go from the Genesis New Testament all the way to Revelation, and I'm gonna lay it out chronologically, and I'm gonna meld everything together in a story, in a story that just goes front to back. And so it's funny because I'm looking at that in your in your in your background, and that that solved a lot for me. That was super, super helpful for me to kind of navigate everything that was going on, and then also to kind of connect the dots to see how the past influenced the future, how the prophecies actually came together. There's something like 140 some odd things that had to happen in one guy and Jesus did them all. Like, like, like that would be you'd have to be hit by lightning 10 times in the same place for that, like the same odds or some craziness. But it's stuff like that uh that I think is is you know, that's really really helpful. Are there other resources that you have that you that uh you would suggest? I know the big reader, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

Well, uh, you know, I think I mean let's break it down. So, first there's the Bible, right? And we've established gotta make sure that you get the right version. By the way, I was half joking before, like I am gonna do a YouTube thing, but I think the version that is like the most widely known now is the new international version, the NIV. So if you're looking for one, you know, an NIV is a really good choice. It's what most Christian churches today um uh use. So that's a choice. So there's so I think get the right version. I think there's uh there's Bibles that are referred to as red letter Bibles, those Bibles in the New Testament. Whenever like something is attributed directly from Jesus, like he's it's a quote from Jesus, it's in red. So you you're reading this, and now you're seeing, okay, Jesus said this, right? Which you know puts a little more, a lot more emphasis, right? This came from Jesus, right? That's cool. There's other Bibles um that have what um I forget what they call them, but uh basically, you know, the top half of the page is the Bible, the bottom half are experts, you know, spiritual experts that speak into um, they kind of explain what's going on. And I don't read all that stuff all the time, but it's really interesting to see, you know, they'll talk about the times, you know, they'll talk about hey, this one word, you know, means this. Um, and at this time these things were going on, which is why the disciples were talking about this or why they were confused by this or whatever. And so it just helps you bring like more clarity and more understanding to what it is you're reading. So there's all kinds of ways that you can enrich your experience. And the last thing I'll say is uh is you version, right? Um, is an app. Yes, yeah, you like not me, you um, version is an app. Um it I don't know this, but I'm gonna guess it's the most widely used Bible app, I would think. Um, and uh again, so you have it on your phone, right? A lot of times in church now, there's people, you know, with the Bible. There's other a lot of people just have it on their phone. And the cool thing about U version is it's all the versions are in there, right? Like, so like you could pick any version you want. You could also highlight, you know, like that that verse, uh, I was blind, but now I see, right? You can highlight that, and then you can compare like four or five different, you know, King James, you know, the different versions, because sometimes, you know, reading it in, you know, that that is geared towards a different time can be meaningful, right? I mean, so you're you get kind of just different nuances to the verse that can be impactful. I don't do a ton of that, um, but I do think it's cool uh when you can find the right verse and and get more clarity on it because you read a couple, two, three different versions.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

You ever do the plans and in the U version app? I have, yeah, I have, which are cool. Those are great. Yeah, talk about just understanding and learning, like that is really strong stuff.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

Well, and you know, what Larry's referring to is like you could say, you know, I want to plan on you know, addiction or or friendship or discipline. I mean, you name it, and um and then you will get a tailor-made, you know, Bible reading plan. Maybe it's a a three-day plan, a 20-day plan, doesn't really matter. Um, and you can like tackle different topics and learn about Jesus and what he says about these different topics that way, which is kind of cool. And you can do it with other people, and you know, it's a there's a social media aspect of it if you want to, you know, do it that way.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

Yeah, dig it, dig it. Um, one of the things I think I I would be remiss if we didn't talk about this, and I think that it is it's kind of not core, but I I think for the doubters out there, and and I think what folks are gonna say, so I have a lot of friends who are listening to the podcast, uh, which is cool, like you know, two, uh, and uh they you know that leads to conversations, which is exactly what I'm hoping, right? Yeah, um, and just recently I I realized in in the conversation, there's a narrative out there, and this narrative is that you know, how can you put trust in a in a in a book uh about God that was created by man years later, um, before people really knew how to write, and then in in the process of that translation, things were lost and and lies were told and and messages were mixed. And that narrative is that, yeah, you the if you're basing your entire faith on a on this one book, that book is fallible, so your faith is fallible. And that to me is it was a great conversation to have, to which I asked the question, you know, you know, where did that come from? Where did that narrative come from? And the follow-up was like, what research have you done around that? And I I specifically asked those things because like we've talked about several times, not only in this podcast, but just outside of this podcast. We're not we're not in the business of telling people what to think, right? But I'm also if you're not curious, then don't listen to us because I want you to ask the questions. I want you to ask the questions and not just kind of like take this all in. Oh, I you know, how can that be? Right. Well, if that's the case, then ask the question. How can it be? Because I think what's funny about that is when you really delve into and explore that narrative and and you see like it's it it makes me think of uh uh Cooperstown Baseball Hall of Fame and why it's named Cooperstown and and the entire the entire myth behind that, yeah, right. When you when you find out, and and I'm not gonna say what that story is because if you're curious, I want you as a listener to Google it, right? Why is Cooperstown called Cooperstown? And then to find out what the actual thing is, right? And why is this narrative, oh okay, it was written a long time ago, so how can it be a historically accurate from yeah, and you know, like like for me, I hear that question, and I I'm not honestly, I'm not even going to engage in that question, right?

SPEAKER_01 42:50

Um, and how I think of that is um, again, I'm not a scholar, right? And I'm not about to do debate someone on that topic, right? I will talk about my beliefs and what I my belief is, you know, if like like okay, so you have all these books written by different people, written over a span of 70 years or something like that, right? How can they be accurate? You know, there there was motivation by the church to whatever, okay. Um, you know, the the the Christian story on that is they're they're God breathed, right? Yeah, written by man, but God orchestrated it, you know, like like and and they wrote it. Okay, but um again, like I that's I don't even want to have that conversation, right? Like I I can't prove it, first of all, right? Um, yeah, but what I can say is I don't understand most of I don't say most of a lot of what my God does or what why he does what he does. I just don't. And he and I'm okay saying that because. If I I think people know that that question is almost about like, yeah, well, defend your faith, right? And and I'm defending it by saying, if I know everything, everything that my God is doing and why he's doing it, he is not a very big God. Like he's a he's a little god that double click, brother. That little Jim, little Jim understands all his ways. Um, and little Jim made a great argument, go Jim, you know, like, but no, like I don't, I don't under I don't understand everything he does, and I shouldn't. He's a big, great God that can do all kinds of things that I will never be able to explain, including breathing the Bible through men, you know. Um, and that's what I believe.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

That's what I believe as as significant as writing those verses, inspiring people like Paul to make those amazing letters, all the way down to something as simple as a May 15th bookmark to connect with one guy, you know, right? How do we understand that? I mean, think of all the providence that had to go into that, yeah. And and it's and it's gonna, and this is 2,000 plus years later. I mean, for the love, it's just gonna keep going. And like we've we've talked about before, instead of sharing our faith, we share our hope.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

Bingo, yeah, bingo. Yeah, I'm gonna um we're wrapping up, right? Yeah, yeah. Let me let me say just one more thing. So we talked about Old Testament versus New Testament, you know, starting the New Testament, that's where Jesus is, and I and if you the first four books of the New Testament are Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. So these are what are referred to as the gospels, right? They're four stories about Jesus written by different people with different um different goals, right? Each author is is trying to prove or trying to make a different point, okay. Um, you can start at Matt, you could you could start at Matthew and go right through totally cool. I'll also give you this like the book of John, right? The the last one of the four, his audience are is new Christians, right? And yeah, um, and and yeah, people that are searching, right? And his the purpose of that book is to prove that Jesus is a son of God, right? And life is through him. So if you're searching, if we're wrestling, that's a good place to start too. You don't have to start in Matthew, you know, but another good choice is starting John. Um, me, I like to just go in order in the New Testament, um, for because because you know what? For no real powerful reason, other than so my brain can handle that, and I know where I'm at, and uh, and I like order, I guess, right?

SPEAKER_00 46:55

Like another round of that.

SPEAKER_01 46:56

I like order.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

Well, and and it's funny, you know, we're sports guys, right? You know, what do you what do you almost always see? Somebody with a big banner, John 3.16.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

Yeah, I love what you said about the you know, starting with John and and okay, so now you know John 3.16. Okay, now now work backwards from that and find out why, and it it will blow your mind. That's yeah, another thing that I uh and I really enjoyed because I'm kind of a visual guy is going to the Bible project on YouTube. Oh, yeah, that is a massive to me. I have learned so much, and it has really broken stuff down for me in a way that is just digestible and and actually very entertaining what they put together.

SPEAKER_01 47:39

I forgot that dude's name.

SPEAKER_00 47:40

Um, yeah, uh, but I don't remember, but it's called the Bible Project on YouTube, and it is just rich, full of great content.

SPEAKER_01 47:49

What he does is he goes over each book of the New Testament and he he tells the story. Like there's there's uh um there's narrative, right? But he sketches it out like this this this computer sketchy thing. Yeah, he sketches out like in he cuts the paper in half, and here's a quadrant, here's the first part of the the chapter, and and like it's just it is so like you're mesmerized, first of all, how how cool it is, right? Yeah, but then the way he's telling this story, you got words, you got you, you can see it, you know, it's it's really impactful. I'm glad you brought that up because I love that too.

SPEAKER_00 48:28

We knew approaching this episode that this is this was gonna be a big one, yeah. This is uh and I and grateful for you for pressing this episode because uh I mean it is, it's this is kind of foundational. Um, this is really like what we have talked about, you know, as you're building that bridge and you're really fortifying that relationship with Christ. I mean, this is kind of like the thing right here, yeah. So uh, you know, we might have gone a little long, but at the end of the day, this is this is kind of one of those paramount that you know, this is the lighthouse in the sea. You gotta have this. If you don't, this is you're kind of floating, uh without guidance.

SPEAKER_01 49:08

And I and I am I'm gonna say this now because that is gonna force me to do it. I am uh uh I'm gonna do a short little YouTube and short, I'm talking like five minutes, you know, on as a follow-up to this, right? There's another Bible story um uh, you know, just about Paul and his encounter with Jesus, which is really cool. Um, and then uh we'll do another one on on the different versions and you know get into that a little bit more. But you know, our intent is to just to continue to give you content to help you in your journey of wrestling with faith, doubt, and what it means to have a relationship with Jesus and to and how to have a relationship with Jesus. Um, yeah, that's you know what? So watch for that, and uh that's and that's all I'll have to say about that.

SPEAKER_00 49:58

Brilliantly said, my friend. Thank you so much for tuning in. Uh, we hope that you got as much out of this as we did putting together.

SPEAKER_01 50:05

Please rate my forest gump on a scale of one to one. That's a wrap. Hey, thanks for hanging out with us. Wherever you are with faith, whether it's curious, skeptical, or just tired, we're glad you're here. And if this stirred up thoughts or questions, don't rush past them. Just sit with them. We'll keep the conversation going.