Pat Metcalfe-Jones press conference | Loughborough Lightning vs Harlequins Women

Harlequins Women's Head of Women's Rugby Pat Metcalfe-Jones spoke to the media ahead of Friday's PWR Round 14 fixture against Loughborough Lightning

She discussed a range of topics including:

• Her background in the sport
• How she has found her role so far
• The development of Pathway Players into the Senior Women's environment

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I've seen you at the side of the pitch, obviously, flapping around with the players and whatever prematch. Um and it's quite rare now to have um even in the women's game to have a women's head of women's rugby. I can't quite work out why. And I wonder if you could tell me a little bit about your route to getting that job and what a difference it makes having a woman in that job.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Yeah, well, um if I start with my background, so um I I actually played for Harlequins um back in the it was actually it was before the Allians Premier 15, so it was the um Tyrrell's Premier 15. So um back at the early stages of the reformatted women's premiership. Um and I I was a student at the time. I got into coaching after finishing my degree um and and made the decision actually to stop playing and and really pursue a coaching career. Um so that was in across a couple of different universities. Um and then within the under 18s pathway, that was my um that was kind of my my background before I came back to Quinns as a coach in 2024. Um so I'd led an ACE program at the city of Oxford College. Um I'd led first the WASP Centre of Excellence, and then um after they sadly went into administration, then the um uh one of the RFU centers of excellence, which are now the the PDGs, um, and had started to uh work my way into PWR environments as in assistant coaching roles, first at WAS and then at Trailfinders. Um came to came back to Quinns in 2024 as the the pathway lead. Um and our pathway really was in its infancy then. Um so a lot of my role was um was around kind of setting up partnership with the University of Surrey, um strengthening our relationship with Worthing College, who are our ACE program affiliate partner, um, and and then coaching and transitioning some of our younger players into the senior squad. Um so I was in that role for just under 18 months. Um and obviously in January, then took on the um the head of women's rugby role at Quinn's following Annie Reese Jones's departure to um the SRU. So that's that's my kind of full circle moment. So my background's in coaching and and pathway strategy, um, and and obviously it lends itself pretty well to um to club strategy and and looking after the senior women's um programme at Harlequins.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

So um because as women we understand about women's physiology, um things like loading and all that kind of stuff. Obviously, you know that much more in depth, but because my impression is because we cover women's football as well, but it is sometimes a woman in charge, or even as head of a rugby where you've got your head coach as well, um sees other things maybe. I don't know if you agree.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Um I think I can certainly lend a female perspective in the coaching office that um you know that that my colleagues, if they're if they are male, um, can't. I think you know, we're we're incredibly privileged at Harlequins, we're well resourced and well-staffed, and um we you know across our either our medical or our athletic performance or welfare departments, we we get some really good insights that from me, from a coaching and pathway background and playing background, I can't necessarily in impart. So um, you know, you you touched on physiology there, and yes, I I share the experience that the players um you know that the players are living. Um, however, I I'm not a specialist in those areas. What I can offer is a female perspective and and a different perspective, having come from um, you know, a game which isn't in the well wasn't when I was playing at the professional stage that some of um you know the men have uh having come from professional playing backgrounds will have experienced themselves. So um I think it it certainly adds a different dimension and value to um to our staff, but I think you know we've got we've got lots of those different perspectives, and what's really important is that we come together as a as a group and that we make sure um you know that that we're thorough um and that we're we're really player-centred in our approach to developing these athletes and um and prepping for performances each week.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Brilliant. Before I ask you a bit more about the pathway, um you mentioned you went to two universities. What were you studying and what were the universities again?

SPEAKER_01 4:57

Um so where I was coaching, I was coaching at Oxford Brookes University and Oxford University, and then more recently, having um having worked in the pathway at Harlequins, I coached at the University of Surrey. Um what did I study myself? I actually um I studied French and Italian. So I'm currently uh to my chosen career path now.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

So hang on, just tell me why you studied French and Italian. Um I by the way, I studied English, so I can't judge. I can't judge.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

I I really fancied a year abroad, Helen. Um, and I thought that a degree in modern languages would offer me that. I actually um ruptured my ACL just before I started what would have been my third year at university, which would have been my year abroad. Um, and uh that prevented me from going abroad because I chose to stay in the UK to complete my rehab. So um I ended up doing the modern languages degree without the year that I envisaged um away from home.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Your whole rationale has gone out the window. Okay. So um jumping back to the pathway and what you're doing now, are there players that you were working on in the pathway that you can now see either breaking into the first team or already in the first team?

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Absolutely, and I think you know there are there are players coming through this season who uh I was working closely with, particularly at our um University of Surrey partner program last season. There are also players coming through now who I had the privilege to coach when they were under 18s. Um so I obviously I coach I spoke about the Centre of Excellence, but I coached at the City of Oxford College as well. And um a number of our players, Ella Cromack, Maddie Page, Millie Pierce came through, some of Charlesworth, sorry, um, came through that programme as well. So it's incredibly fulfilling to now see them getting opportunities with our senior squad. So obviously, Ella and and Maddy have been um have been involved this season in in PWR um fixtures, and some of the others have had opportunities within the the cup and the training environment as well. So um yeah, it's it's fantastic to see them coming through. And I think the the future is bright at Harlequins. Again, we've got um you know two young front rowers in Zara Green and Ruby Wynne Stanley, um who featured recently in our in our 23. Um, and you know, they're they're 1920 and they've been involved in England under 21s, and we're we're really seeing um seeing them push the the senior players in our in both training um and and match day selection, which is fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

And is that something that's it must be now a quite quite a benefit for you to see because you've seen how they can you know how they can play when they're coming through the pathway. But can you see the moment where they could suddenly fit in? Are you able to sort of think that is the time now is the moment?

SPEAKER_01 7:59

Uh now as well. I think um yeah, when we make these decisions, we make them, they're considered decisions and we make them as a collective. So um there'll be athletic performance input, um, there'll be medical input. You know, we we need those players to be um to have the correct loading, to be robust enough um to to perform in the senior PWR um environment. And we, you know, we value their longevity in the game, they're young players, we want them to have long futures, and and it's important that we get that right. From a rugby perspective, I think one of one of the strengths of um our coaching setup and staff at Quinn's is that our pathway coaches and our senior coaches sit in the same coaching office and they're constantly having those discussions. How is X, Y, and Z player getting on at the university or in the college game? And can we, you know, can we facilitate training opportunities? Can we make sure that um they're they're integrated into um you know senior um position specific sessions so that they're getting the exposure and the training and the coaching that they need to be able to make that step up? And when we feel that all of those parts are are right, then we'll make sure that they have opportunities to put their hand up for selection.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

But are you someone who looks at the holistic, the overall player, or maybe it's both, I don't know, but there are a lot of people who look at how many carries and you know, look at all the stats and how many meters, you know, all that kind of stuff. Or or are you looking more at the kind of what they've done maybe off the ball? You know what I mean? There's a lot of stuff that goes on, or you can see the way they're maybe guiding the play.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

I I think we'd look at we'd look at all facets of their game, Helen. So again, our our analysts would be in those conversations. Yes, we would look at data. Um, you know, the the reality is it's very difficult to compare perhaps a university fixture and some of those things that you've mentioned, you know, carries or meters made or um meaningful distance. Um it's very difficult to compare those kind of metrics to then metrics in a PWR environment because the conditions ultimately are very different. So you have to be holistic in your approach and you have to consider um you know the the athletic development, the medical side of things, the the rugby development, the performance in training, um the the the overall player and their readiness to to make that step up.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

I'm fascinated by all this, you can probably tell. I could I could sit and talk to you for hours, but I won't. Um but how how would you encourage other women to get into a coaching role, either through the pathway like you did, how's the pathway cut, you know, or to where you are now? How how how can people particularly women get involved in that?

SPEAKER_01 11:05

Um I think there are there are certainly avenues. I I think um it's really important, particularly in coaching, to just get coaching reps in. Um and you know, for many years I I coached across multiple environments. So I would be coaching at a club, I would be coaching in the university space, in the pathway, college rugby, centre of excellence rugby. Um, and all of those different experiences really enabled me to hone my craft and build my network and um connect with other coaches in the game who were were generous in sharing their knowledge or inviting me to observe them in their environments. And and I think you know the the reality of of coaching, whether you're you're male or female, is that um it's hard, it's hard work, it's long hours, and um I I threw myself into that, and I know there are plenty of other female coaches in the game who are who are doing just that. And um, and ultimately I think you know you there there are opportunities available and and female coaches just have to go for them.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Did you have somebody, maybe it was more than one person who was like a mentor?

SPEAKER_01 12:17

Uh definitely more than one person. I've had several several along the way. Um Giselle Mather had a huge influence on my my early coaching career, um, offered me a huge amount of advice and support when I was working at the city of Oxford College, who were in partnership with Wasps, um, and and then gave me opportunities to coach in um the senior WASPs and trailfinders environment. So um she would have been a big one for me. Um I think more recently, you know, I'm hugely inspired by my current current and former colleagues at Harlequins. Um so yeah, Ross Chisholm, I think, is is a fantastic head coach and is generous with his experiences of of both playing and coaching um with everyone here at Quinns and Andy Reese Jones now at Scotland was a you know was a huge support for me when I was in my pathway role at Harlequins and um yeah, uh again very generous with his knowledge and um and that support really enabled me to step into my current role.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

And um sort of similarly, when you're looking at players now, um can you tell who might be someone who'd be good at coaching themselves? And I I imagine that a lot of players get involved in maybe coaching kids and stuff too. Maybe they do that outside their normal thing. I think um I'm I'm pretty sure that people at Emma Singh down at Gloucester do little bits and pieces. Um and I wondered if they're if you can sort of see the potential in just what the way they're they're playing. Um I mean I always think I can see uh I mentioned earlier um about someone like Afa, and I think she would be a very good coach because she seems very um I don't know, like um a fulcrum, if you like, and also the way she you can see her directing the play and stuff. Um it feels to me like also she sounds like she's quite patient, but I could be completely wrong.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

I won't comment on the patience. Um no, I think listen, I agree with you. I think Ether would be a fantastic coach, and I think we've got um, you know, we've got a number of players in our environment who are are really committed to giving back to the game and to to sharing their knowledge with with younger generations coming through. Um Langy Tweemer is is coaching on our university programme, and Shauna Brown, obviously a former player, um, is is also coaching with the University of Surrey. Um so there are two prime examples of players who are stepping into those roles. Um we we've got a number of other players who are coaching across the community or the college or um wider foundation programs as well at Harlequins. And I think we're really keen, as we are across all careers, not just coaching, but to support current players with their career aspirations and with their dual careers with with the game where it is in its current um professional state. So um, you know, it's something that players are um that we're constantly in dialogue with players over what do those future aspirations look like and and are there ways that we can support. I think one of the challenges in the women's game is is just the ability to juggle coaching and playing at the same time. Um the university and the college spaces lend themselves well to players doing both because they can coach on a Wednesday and Friday, and and most clubs will train on a Monday, Tuesday, Thursday. Um I think obviously the community game will also train in the evening, and and that ultimately our our core sessions are tilted towards the afternoon and evening, which which would clash with players coaching in the club game. So um there are there are some logistical challenges around making it work, but I think um certainly those pathway coaching opportunities have been fantastic for for young aspiring players coming through the game.