Ep 14 | Craig Maxwell OBE | The Man Who Was Given 12 Months - And Changed Welsh Cancer Care Forever

YOUTUBE DESCRIPTION:

In 2022, Craig Maxwell OBE was told he had a rare form of cancer and 12 months to live.

Most people would stop. Craig accelerated.

In this extraordinary episode of Inside the Maverick Mind, Craig — a former Welsh Rugby Union executive and one of the youngest commercial directors in world rugby — sits down to talk about the moment that changed everything. The diagnosis. The fear. The clarity that followed.

But this isn't just a story about facing death. It's a story about what you choose to do with the time you have.

Since his diagnosis, Craig has run marathons, cycled across countries, climbed mountains, and walked the entire Welsh coastline — all while undergoing treatment. In doing so, he has raised over £1.7 million to fundamentally change how cancer is diagnosed in Wales. So that others are found in time. So that no one else hears the words "we can treat it, but we can't cure it" when it's already too late.

In this conversation, Craig talks about:

• The moment he received his diagnosis — and what happened in the hours that followed
• What he's most afraid of, and the things no one can prepare you for
• How a terminal illness made him a better husband, father and friend
• What "keep going" really means when the stakes are as high as they get
• The £1.7 million mission to save lives through early cancer detection
• What he wants his children to know about who their father was

This is one of the most remarkable, thought-provoking and life-affirming conversations we have ever recorded.

Please watch. Please share. It could save a life.

🔔 Subscribe for more conversations with people who think differently when the stakes are real.

CraigMaxwell #CancerAwareness #EarlyDetection #TerminalCancer #Podcast #WelshRugby #LungCancer #Mindset #Legacy #InsideTheMaverickMind

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Welcome to Inside the Maverick Mind, the show where we explore how people think when the stakes are real. Some guests take risks in business, some challenge industries, and then occasionally you meet someone whose entire perspective on life has been rewritten. My guest today is Craig Maxwell OPE, a former Welsh rugby leader who rose from dyslexia and early setbacks to become one of the youngest commercial directors in world rugby, helping transform the commercial future of the game at the highest level. He went on to shape the Six Nations, leading some of the biggest commercial deals the sport has ever seen. But this isn't really a story about rugby. Because in 2022, Craig was told that he had a rare form of cancer and 12 months to live. Most people would stop. Craig accelerated, running marathons, cycling across countries, climbing mountains, walking the entire Welsh coastline, all while undergoing treatment. And in doing so, reached over 1.7 million. Not just for charity, but to fundamentally change how cancer is diagnosed in Wales. I've walked and cycled with Craig for Velinda Cancer Centre, and what struck me wasn't just the determination, it was the mindset. This is a conversation about time, fear, purpose, what happens when you decide to keep going. Craig Maxwell is our guest. Let's get inside his Maverick Mind. Welcome, Craig. Great to see you. It's a huge honour to have you, midtreatment and everything, and thank you for finding the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Thank you for having me on.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Thank you. Let's start before everything changed. Dyslexia, rugby career cut short through injury. What did those early setbacks teach you?

SPEAKER_01 1:44

I think I was like every other young Welsh woman coming through. I would have played professional if it wasn't for my knee. There's about a million and a half of us in Wales, isn't there? Yeah, exactly. But no, I was I was on that trajectory of playing sport. Sport was everything to me, and you know, the academic side, I wasn't terrible, um, but I certainly wasn't good. And I was very lucky that I had a dyslexia teacher that that um would teach me to cope with it on that side. But right up until 17, 18, um, my goal was to play professional rugby. I've been very lucky. I played basketball for Wales. I was in the Wales under 18 development squad with rugby, played county cricket, so I was into all sports, and then very random, just running, my my left knee went, and I decided that, you know, okay, I'm gonna get back and go for it and keep going back. But unfortunately, um it wasn't to be. My left knee went, then I went again, and then my right knee went with my ACL. I know, so I clearly wasn't, I blame my mum and dad, I wasn't built properly in that area, and then um, but by the time I managed to go through all that recuperation, you know, back then it was the big old cut you open, wasn't the uh wasn't the old keyhole that the players have today. I was 20, 21, and I just lost those key years, really. So um, yeah, it was a hard, hard pivot to make, really. And that's when the whole WRU journey started. But I was determined right up until I had a game actually for Newport Saracens. I was playing, I came back and played there, and I was terrible. I was so rubbish, I was absolutely rubbish, and I just realized at that point, you know, it wasn't gonna be. And I loved the sport, but I couldn't do it just recreationally. I was that driven as I had to succeed, so it was time for something else at that point.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

You convinced the WRU to let you work for free. Where did that belief come from that you could create your own opportunity like that?

SPEAKER_01 3:30

I've always massively overstated my own ability. I've believed in myself far too much many times, which I think is a superpower and is also a negative as well. But what happened was I went to Chatham University, I decided I was from Pembrokeshire, grew up in Tenby, only child, rural area, and I always wanted to meet new people. All my friends were going to Ewick, but I decided I was going to go to Cheltenham by myself, meet a new group of people, and do that. I went to Chatham, I completely failed my first year. Um, so I was told, you know, there's nothing for you here in Chatelham after that. So I transferred back to Uick then, um, with the hope plane rugby with Ewick and talked to them about that, but my knee went again in that summer. So I did my H and D, scraped through it because I was enjoying university too much and trying to get back into rugby. And then I realized, you know, well, my dad said to me, you know, are you sure this is for you? And uh and I realised pretty quickly, actually, it's probably not for me. It's not, you know, this structured learning is not where I excel for many reasons. So really random stories. There's a gentleman um called John Williams, who I knew from Pembroke, who I worked with just as a summer job, and he was working at WIU. So I called him up and I said to him, I know this is really random, but you know I'm a hard worker, you know I'm driven, you know I know the game of rugby, I want to come and work for you for free. So I thought, well, if I lead with, I'm not asking for a job, I just want to give you resource. Um, you know, they can't say no to that and they can't sack me uh at that point either. So John said, Well, let's meet for a coffee. So we met for a coffee. I'll never forget I had no petrol in my car. So I had to call my best friend Johnny Lee, who took me, who drove me in, and uh we had a coffee and he said, Let's give it a go. He said, Let's give it a go, let's come in. I said, I don't want to be paid because I thought it made the getting in easier. I thought if I can get in and prove myself, it's not about the money at this stage, it's just about proving myself, then hopefully there'll be a future and a career out of it. And there was.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

Oh, that's an incredible story, but you have to get your foot in the door, you know. But you reach the top of your field, the youngest commercial director in world rugby, transforming the WIU, leading the Six Nations commercially. Did you feel like you'd made it at that point?

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Um no, I don't think, you know, pre-diagnosis, you know, I had two, I had two sort of strap lines I used to say to myself, as you don't win silver, you lose gold. Or you would be a great man if it wasn't for yourself. And I think that just showed I always wanted more, and I never believed that I'd achieved enough. So as soon as I achieved these milestones, I was straight on to the next thing. I never stopped to congratulate myself or to enjoy those moments. I've only actually done that since being diagnosed. So, since being diagnosed in 2022, I've looked back at my career and looked back at what I achieved with many people because, as you know, there's nobody can do it by themselves. And it's pretty incredible. And I'm I know that might sound arrogant, but I'm happy to say that now. You know, bringing Underarmour into the Welsh Rugby Union, huge American brand, it revolutionized how we were viewed commercially. It revolutionized the finances, it revolutionized performance as well. And it's only really 23-24 when I was sitting back and writing something for my children about me, because obviously I won't be there for their future, so tell them a bit of my story. We actually started to realise, you know, they were pretty big achievements. But at the time, my mindset, I was just right, what's next? That's done, that's in the past, move forward, really. So um it's been quite a learning, learning journey for me in that route.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

Fascinating. You said your dream was to become CEO of the WIU, and that's something that won't happen now. How did that land with you?

SPEAKER_01 7:12

I've always struggled with that. Um, and listen, it may it may never happen, but for me, you know, I was what, 40 years old on the exec board. I started on exec board at 28 and I left WI at 40. And Martin Phillips, who was the CEO at the time, who um, like Roger Lewis and Martin Phillips, had a huge effect on my career. Martin really talked about this journey for me and believed in me and said that that could happen. And the way he'd explained to me, you've got 20 years between 40 and 60 to make it happen. Yeah, you know, so we but he said you need to go away to come back, and that's when the Six Nations job came up, which was a chance, the first chance for me to work at private equity in rugby, um, and for me to gain relationships with all the other unions. So Martin and I decided, you know what, that's probably a good good transition for me to make, grow further, grow more to look to come back to Welsh rugby. But unfortunately, in that period, that has been hard. My career finishing has been very difficult, and something I don't think I'll truly ever get over because you know, it's the stadium is where I met my wife. It's where I had a phone call to say both times I was in a meeting and Tracy called me and said, I'm pregnant. You know, it's been a place where I've made some of my best friends, I've had some of my best experiences. It's just been an amazing place and a place that holds really close to my heart. So my career ending like it did, I felt it was I've really struggled, and I still struggle with. I still struggle with to this day, really.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

September 2022, you've told you have cancer and 12 months to live. What was the very first thing that you thought about?

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Oh, um, my wife and family. So the whole story really started in June. So I did a charity bike ride from Carlift to Paris. On that bike ride, I started coughing up blood. I hadn't felt well for about a year before. And I came back, went to the doctors, and they found an eight-centimeter tumor um in my left lung. But not all tumours in your lung are cancer. Um, and being young, they weren't looking in that, and I didn't fit the criteria for lung cancer at all. I was completely outside of it. So they thought I had something called organizing pneumonia, and they were trying to biopsy me, and they couldn't biopsy me, they couldn't get to get to the tumour. So I had 78 days where I didn't know if I had cancer or not. And within that period, um I was declining and getting worse, but at no point did I think this is a terminal diagnosis. So the day that um we had a phone call in the morning, um, and they said you need to come to the hospital now. And I thought that's strange, you know, you don't get good news being told to come to the hospital right now. And I grabbed my wife and I said to her, okay, we need to be prepared here. This could be, you haven't got cancer, it's great news, all the way through to this is stage four terminal. Um, I said, This is the range that unfortunately we're working. I was really trying to mount because she was struggling, struggling at the time. We're trying to keep, you know, the kids happy, trying to look after me and hold everything together. And I'll never forget, we went to the hospital, and it's amazing how you read into things. We went to the hospital up at Landock, we went to the lung clinic, and they said, right, you need to go up to the ward. And I thought, okay, well, they're not gonna tell me I'm really ill on the ward, are they? So I go up to the ward, um, and a wonderful, wonderful Dr. Davis um pulls us literally into a side room, and it was a room, it was a tiny room, it was quarter the size of this room. And I thought, well, you're not gonna tell you. I've seen it on the movies, you know. You sat down in a meeting room and you're and you're told this is what's gonna happen. And we sit on the bed, and and the clinical nurse is there as well. And yeah, and she just said, Um, we've had the biop the latest biopsy results back, it's stage four. Um it's spread to your chest and your shoulder as well, and um it's unlikely that we'll be able to cure this. Um we can treat it, but it's a terminal diagnosis. At that time, we didn't know I had what was called EGFR, which I'll come on to. So, in their eyes, it was you know, less than 12 months to live within within a certain period. From that, we were taken downstairs to meet an oncologist and um and and Tracy, you know, my wonderful, wonderful wife, was at that point just broke down completely. So, you know, I was in a I didn't know what to think, you know, you you you're it's an out-of-body experience. But the thing I am proud of myself about is I found the strength to make sure that I was strong for Tracy because she was really, really struggling with it. And I just thought, no, no, my job here now is to make sure that we get through this together, and and I've got to show strength for her, for the kids, you know, for everybody throughout this process. You know, I can't change this, so I need to show strength and make sure everybody else doesn't get pulled down like myself, really. So it was an unbelievable day. And the bit I found the hardest was obviously you meet with the oncologist, you talk about what's going to happen next. We needed to have the mutation results, which were gonna take another two weeks. So we had to wait another two weeks to find out exactly which type of cancer it was, and then you leave, and then you find yourself in the car park, stood by the car. You know, you walked in two hours before with 30 years of life ahead of you, and you've just come back out two hours later, and that's it, basically. You've been told that's it. So we went to the pub, um, we called some friends, we went to the pub, um, we all cried a lot, which if anybody in that pub must have thought there was a very strange uh situation, but that that's all we could do at that point, really, and then and wait to see what comes next.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

Thank thank you for sharing that. You've said something incredibly honest. I am scared. What are you most scared of?

SPEAKER_01 12:45

I'm most scared of what I can't control. The things that um, you know, night time is my waste time. So, you know, when I when I go to sleep at night when you're alone with your thoughts is is not a great place to be. And I always thought that I'd be looking back, you know, wish I'd done this, wish I'd done that. And I and I don't at all. And I don't regret anything. And there are times that I would change because I've been an idiot or I've done something wrong or I've upset somebody, and you know, on reflection now at this point in my life, God, I'd love to go back and correct that, but I can't. And I um and there's different ways to make amends with that. The bit that keeps me up, and the bit where I really struggle is the bits I can't control when I'm not here. You know, if Tracy needs help, you know, if she's stuck financially, and I've done all my best I can for that. You know, not walking my daughter down the aisle, not being there for my son's wedding, not meeting my grandchildren, you know. They're the things that keep me up at night, you know, they're the things that I'm worried about, you know, if what happens if I and Zach are in trouble, you know, and that's that's what scares me more than anything. And the hardest thing about it all is there is nothing I can do. I can write letters, I can post videos for them, I can give them motivational, I can try and role model good behaviour, but the honest answer is nothing I can do, and that scares me. And I'm being unfair to my wonderful wife here, she is a rock star and amazing, and I know whatever is thrown at my children and Tracy in the future, she will solve better than I ever could. But you want to be there for that, you know, you want to be there for when your children are having tough times, and that's what that's what keeps me up at night is is I still try to think how I can change it, but I can't.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

Most people though would slow down, you sped up. Why?

SPEAKER_01 14:32

Um quite funny, actually. So I've got a very good friend um from back in Pembrokeshire who's who's not actually known for giving these big motivational quotes, but he did. We went for a walk and he was talking his normal nonsense to me, and then he turned around and he said one thing to me. He said, Well, Craig, you know, only you can choose now this could be the end or this could be the start of something. And that really struck a chord with me. Really struck a chord with me. You know, I I you know I hadn't gone yet. I was still running, even though I had, you know, a tumour in my lung and bone cancer, and I was still active, I didn't look like I was ill. And I thought, you know what, I've got to fit 30 years of parenting into potentially 12, 24 months. How can I do that? And I thought, well, the best way I can do that is to role model. Is to, you know, and that's something that's always motivated me is by watching and learning other people and learning from leaders about how they react in situations. And I've I'm a massive sponge for that observing and and mimicking and copying and adapting those leadership styles and those skills. So I thought, okay, I'm gonna role model for my children. I'm gonna show them that when it's your worst moment, when the chips are down, when life, you know, uh has thrown grape roots at you, as Rod Gilbert would say, our great friend, you you can still turn it around, you can still make a difference. And that's what I decided to do. And I thought, okay, I'm gonna, you know, my experience getting diagnosed was too long. 78 days to wait for a diagnosis, and it was at no fault of anybody's. The amazing doctors and nurses were going, were doing everything they could to diagnose, but they didn't have the right technology to help. So I thought, right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna help. You know, I could sit back here and complain about that all day long, or I can actually roll my sleeves up as somebody that's been through it and help. Help the amazing people in the NHS, help Valindra to make a difference in that was the first point. The second point was, you know, cycling across, and you know this, we've done it together, cycling across random fields and places in Paris and Bordeaux, you you form a bond with people that stays forever having those life experiences. And let's be frank, that's living. You know, when you're out on the mountains, when you're out cycling, that's living, you know, not stuck at a desk. So I thought I'm gonna I'm gonna do stuff with my friends and meet new people and really live. And then obviously, and the last point, the big one, was I wanted my kids to see I never gave up. So when they're 21, 22, they know they made the same stuff as their dad, and they know that they can beat anything because their dad had the best crack he did when he was given the worst news ever.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

Yeah, and you've been an inspiration to so many of us in terms of leadership. I often look to you, you've touched my heart so many times, and so many of our fellow riders, and annoyingly you'd overtake me, which is not fair, you know, it's just the life's like that, isn't it? Um, but I'd never forget you on a hill, just conquering it. And um, I think on one of the days you didn't have the same strength, and we knew why. Yeah, you didn't complain, you carried on, which is fantastic. Tell me, did something fundamentally change in how you see time?

SPEAKER_01 17:37

Yes. Um, see, see, see the world really and see relationships as well. Um, and and that it didn't happen straight away. It did, it did take time for that to happen. Um, you know, and I'm talking six months, but you don't have time for a lot of the noise, and especially other people's noise, you know, and by that I mean you know social media or or or other stuff that's going on. And I don't mean that in a rude way, but you just refocus on what's important. And the scariest thing for me was when I was before I was diagnosed, as I said earlier, I always wanted more. I wanted more, you know, that wasn't enough. I want more, I want a bigger house, I want bigger holidays for my kids, I wanted a bigger job, you know. More, more, more, more, more. Everything I needed, I had. There was nothing that I didn't have, that I didn't, it was all ready there, and I just didn't pay enough attention. So I'm a better father, I'm a better friend, a better husband, ironically, since my diagnosis. I'm gutted to say it took that to realise. But everything I've ever needed to have a wonderful, beautiful life, I already had. And when you have the message and the news that I've had, refocusing on that and just being present within that is a really easy. You know, you think it's hard, it's not, it's just the most important things. You know, for me now, I look at it, you know, I've my my daughter dances a lot. I will not miss a thing for her. You know, my son, I coach my son's rugby, I will not miss a thing. And before I be there, I got an event or I got a meeting, absolute rubbish. Nothing is more important than those moments. And I wish that that had happened sooner in that position. But I certainly have a very different view on life at this stage. And I've always been somebody that sees the best in people, and again, that's been a superpower and has been a negative at times, but now I really do see the best in people because you see just how wonderful people are, how much support and love, and how people are trying every day to improve themselves. And I just want to be able to help that and be part of that and and support them too.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

Oh, you certainly have. Tell me, one day you're leading global deals, and the next you've been told you have 12 months to live. How thin is that line looking back?

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Oh, unbelievable. And I think um, you know, one of the biggest messages I bring from this, and and I, you know, I don't know what what caused my cancer, you know, EGFR is a is a non-smoking, light smoking cancer, mainly found in non-smoking ladies, is actually the the main area that it's found. You know, looking looking back though, I these global deals, I was flying all over the world working stupid hours, you know. Yes, I was training, but probably not looking after myself, being a candle, both ends. Uh, and it's not worth it. It really isn't worth it. And to really have committed everything to that and then suddenly to see it flip, where for a year before I wasn't feeling right and I ignored it. And I urge anybody to make sure that if they're not feeling right, you know your body is to get checked. Don't delay, don't wait, because if you wait to the period that I was, it was too late. And it was too late for me, you know, at 40 years old to be told that, you know, I've still got half my life ahead of me, to be told it's coming to an end. And, you know, the day before I was dealing with calls about, you know, what I thought were really big issues. Well, they weren't really, were they? Let's be frank about it. They weren't really that big issues. They were important, you know, and making a career and and doing and that, but they weren't really, really big issues. Really big issues is what came after that day. And that's a really important perspective for for anybody going through anything is that you know, not to take that work life too seriously, because there are bigger things that to come. And unfortunately, we had at the time my dad was very ill as well, and he had Alzheimer's, um, and unfortunately passed. So, so trying to balance that as well with mum, bless her, who had the message of dad and and myself as an only child. Um, you know, they're the things that are important, nothing else.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

Coming back to the challenges, you just didn't respond emotionally, you acted, uh, you know, marathons, cycling mountains, you know, whatever you climbed, you rode. What keeps you moving when your body is telling you to stop? Because you've had some brutal treatments. Purpose.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Purpose for me is um has been the biggest side of it. And I'm a very target-driven person. So, you know, I I had to wait six months after being diagnosed to make sure my treatment was working, because if it wasn't, I would never have been able to do anything. And then I planned out, you know, London Marathon, Cardiff to Paris, Paris to Bordeaux, climb Mount Took. But I planned out a series of events. And the reason I did that was A, because I knew that I wouldn't raise the £300,000 that Valyndra needed to support the Quick DNA program in one event. I needed a series of events to try and chip away, and it was the first piece. But also, for me, you know, I felt like I was living when I was being normal. And I always talk about it, you know, the the walk that I did. Probably within the four years that I've been fighting cancer, getting up at nine in the morning, walking till seven, eight at night, getting to bed, doing that for 28 days straight, I forgot I had cancer for a little bit. And that was beautiful, and that was amazing because I had a purpose. I had my friends and family with me every day, and we were living out on the beautiful Welsh countryside. And I'm always trying to get back to that because you know, with treatments being so difficult, all the side effects that I have breathlessness, pain, bone ache, you know, my pelvis now is you know, I can't really run very much. My shoulder, I haven't got full rotation because of radiotherapy. Um all of that you can put aside if I'm out and active. And for me, that's always been a driver. And when I have my lowest moments, and there are some really dark low moments still at the moment, you know, the last six months have been really tough. If I can just get out and do something and be active, it just lifts me. It lifts me massively. And then my children see a better me. They don't see me lying on the sofa, which I try to avoid, and and they see me out being active and fighting back, which lifts them as well.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

You've raised over £1.7 million, Greg, but more importantly, you've helped change how cancer is diagnosed in Wales. That system level impact. Did that become your mission?

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Um, I did, I did lose control of it in a good way. Um, so like I said, we did a series of events. My aim was to raise 300,000 pounds. Um, I did lend a marathon and we raised about 100,000. And then we got to the bike ride, which was the second of six events, and we were at 350,000. And I couldn't believe it, you know, that quickly to have had that much support from the rugby community, from communities in Wales, um, you know, from great friends and great people like yourself was just unbelievable. And I always thought that would be it. Um we would do our little bit to support Quick DNA, you know, which is a multi-million pound project. We were, you know, there's an amazing team of people at Philindra, all Wales Genomics, that have been fundraising for years and had raised millions. And they were 300 short to spread it to all health boards in Wales. So rather than it just being in one health board, the money that we raised could help for this to go to everybody in Wales. So no matter where you were, if you walked in again, like I did with symptoms, you would have a simple blood test to see if you had cancer, not an invasive biopsy, which a lot of patients can have because they're not well enough, or their tumour is an area where they can't biopsy physically. So this is a game changer because it can get patients on treatment sooner, um, which can hopefully extend their life and in some you know cases help cure them as well within that position. So we just thought we were going to be a small, a small part of that and contribute to that. But the fundraising just continued and it got bigger and bigger. So that's when Tracy and I thought, okay, there's a bigger story here that we can help, and we can really help the cancer pathway in Wales if we carry on. And I knew I had more in me as well in terms of the endurance side, and it was really capturing people's hearts and minds for me a lot staying active whilst I was um whilst I was under treatment helped me a lot as well. Let's not forget how much it helped me, giving me purpose as well at a dark time. So we decided to accept the Maxwell um family fund, genomics fund, and continued fundraising. And so far we've supported Quick DNA, which was only a pilot scheme when we started, but that's now rolled out to every single health board in Wales and funded fully with NHS, so that the pilot was successful. And I can't tell you how proud we are as a family of that. And you know, and I hope they're not used a lot, if you take that in the right way, but I know now that another family like mine that goes in to a hospital tomorrow won't have to wait 78 days, can get on treatment sooner, can understand about their cancer better quicker, which is a huge, huge difference. And anybody that's been through the period of waiting for a cancer diagnosis will tell you it is the hardest thing you will ever go through. When you have the diagnosis, you have a plan, and you know what your treatment is, and you can roll your sleeves up and you can get on with it. But not knowing, I can't explain to you the pain that that brings, not just to you, but to your whole family as well. And then we rolled up to a million pounds and then 1.3, 1.5, 1.7. It's just it was just incredible. And you know, like I said before, I'm very lucky that the rugby community, you know, the Scottish Rugby Union, the English rugby union, the amazing people there, the French, the Italian, the Irish, you know, the WRU have been incredible, have all supported me massively. Velindra, Welsh communities, my old rugby clubs, my old sports teams, you know, the support has been incredible. But I think the sad reality of that as well is it just shows how much this bloody horrible disease affects people and affects people in Wales as well, where cancer areas still need to be pushing. Um, and I you know, a lot of people unfortunately know somebody who've been affected. So seeing this as a chance to help change that I think has really motivated people to support as well.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

You said earlier you wish you'd got checked out earlier. But do you carry regret or have you made peace with that, particularly now that you found a solution for others?

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Um yeah, I do regret. I I do regret, but not not to a point where it brings me down, like we talked about the future. I do have moments where I think, you know, that Christmas I'll never forget. It was Christmas Day, and it was about 10 o'clock at night, and I just thought, you know what, I'm not right. You know, I'm a bit breathless, I'm absolutely shattered, exhausted. And I was going to bed early and getting up later just over that, because I thought, you know, I'd worked too hard building up to Christmas, dipping for the line. I just couldn't get any better. And I did I did go to the doctor, um, and I had a chest x-ray and nothing came up. Um, I had bloods and nothing came up. So I did go to the doctor at that point, but I wish I pushed more. Um, and I wish I pushed harder, but I don't, I don't, you know, I don't spend too long on it because there's nothing I can do. It's been and gone, you know, and I can't change that. All what I can change is tomorrow, and that's where I focus, you know, 99% of my attention and time into is to what I can do today, tomorrow, and the future for my children. Because if I spend time back there, it's not going to help anybody, really, at that point.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

But you're helping so many other people's tomorrow is by doing what you've done.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

We're trying to, and we want to, we want to continue. And I think the dream with the Maxwell Family Fund, and again, you talk about you know the bit that scares me and the future, and I want I want to teach myself, my children, leadership, I want to teach them compassion, I want to teach them kindness. So they're 14 and 10 now. When they're 16, they'll be able to sit on the board of the Maxwell Family Fund. So my drive now is to keep raising money to make sure when they're 16, they're sat there's money for them to spend, and they'll be part of decisions that will help other people in Wales and will help the cancer pathway. And for me, again, just what can I do when I'm not here to help role model? For me, that was a strong message for my children. I want them to sit there, I want them to meet the great doctors and great oncologists that are trying to help other people and be part of that and see the value in it and understand how important it is. So my drive now is to make sure that 1.7 million becomes two, three, four, because the scary thing is, you know, 1.7 million is a lot of money, and it sounds like a lot of money. You know, we've just spent um, you know, another £70,000, £80,000 on funding um immunotherapy doctors in Volindra, and we're about to spend another £450,000 funding the next phase of quick DNA as well. It's not a lot of money to actually make a massive impact on the pathway, even though it sounds like a lot, we need a lot more money. Um, so I'm driven to keep doing what we can and and make sure my children can be part of that as well.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

That's a phenomenal uh ambition, and I'm sure you'll achieve it. And uh your children are so blessed to have a father like you. Coming back to the Volindra doctors, they're an incredible badge because they're out there on the bikes with us on the mountain. They are leading from the front, a part of the community. I've never seen anything like it.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

It's amazing, isn't it? And I think you know, the relationships that um that not just me, many patients have with the oncologists, pharmacists, nurses, uh, you know, across the cancer network is incredible and unique. And I think there's something very Welsh about that as well, which I love. You know, I talk to other patients because we do use the role Marsden a little bit as well, and there's nothing like that, nowhere near like that at all. But I just think it shows how much they care and how much they want to make a difference. You know, I've talked to Velindra about it. I think having representatives of Velindra on on the fundraising events is really important because they're the people that are there day to day, you know, uh having doing the proper jobs. Because let's be frank about it, the world could have existed without the job that I did. Selling advertising boards and and logos on front of jerseys, the world would continue to be a great place without that, but it wouldn't be without them, you know. And for them to give up their time to sit and talk and you know, and the compassion we feel from, you know, I I shouldn't, I don't know if I should say this, but you know, my and call just we're on WhatsApp together, you know, and I think that's probably unique, but it just shows how much they care, you know, and and she's probably got another hundred patients as well, bless her. So and she's amazing. Dr. Rick Bell. I'm very lucky, and I think we're all very lucky to have that service there. Uh, and I really hope that it'll always just keep on improving as well.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

People like Dr. Tom Crosby, yeah, these are legends in my life. Yes, you know, he's like your ambassador, you know, he cares about you, he protects you. He, you know, when I was filming with you over there, he would tell me, you know, now is a good time. Or, you know, he'd such such care.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

It's amazing. Yeah, he is amazing. Well, I'm gonna forget the bike ride we did, Paris to Bordeaux. Um, so Bird obviously was on the bike ride. Um big man, yeah, great cyclist, amazing cyclist, incredible cyclist. So I decided I was gonna keep up with him. Of course he did. And I was gonna try or try and keep up with him. But I didn't know what had happened was Tom had had a quiet word with him to say, okay, Craig's on treatment, don't push it. If he tries to compete with you, which I know he will, just slow down a bit and you know, look after him. So um, so we we we're going off one of the sections, it was a really hot day, and I thought, right, I'm really gonna push him now. So I went ahead of him a bit and was pushing the pace, and it clearly he was ahead of me then. So I stuck with him until the break. I was gone. I could, you know, I got off the bike and Tom was already there, sat waiting for me. I got off the bike and and I was sick everywhere. And Tom is going mad at bird and bit so I couldn't help it. He was pushing, so you know, to have that support and that care was just amazing. And then they ruined me with him as well. So I had a full-time oncologist checking on me the whole time as well. So uh, but I didn't help myself.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

My son go on road with it that day. Yes, and uh I was at the back, unfortunately, it wasn't my best thing, but um, he told me from a different perspective that story, and I've never heard that angle of it with Tom, but I'm not surprised, you know, he cares for you so much. You'd be very honest about treatment, there's no dignity in it at all, is there? And sometimes all you can do is laugh. You shared us a story at the Hill James Velindra Cancer Um Centre fundraising event. Uh, are you happy to share with that with us?

SPEAKER_01 34:06

Yeah, you sure it's uh are we PG you twelve? Are we uh yeah? Um the the the side effects are the hardest part of a lot of this, you know. And um I went on a drug, so there's a drug called Amovantinab, which is actually now available. So, but when I needed it back um last year, and it targets the EGFR mutations specifically, it wasn't available on the NHS and through NICE. So I was very lucky that two private individuals um funded it for me. Um, very expensive drug, you're talking, you know, 50, 60,000, 70,000 pounds for this drug. I did apply to what's called the IPFR panel in Wales, who support patients who need drugs. Unfortunately, they declined me, um, which I did find really difficult at the time. But again, you know, you can't look back, these things happen. I was very lucky to have that support. So I had the drug. Volindra were incredible. So they trained all the staff, all the nurses to administer a drug because you know it's very complicated with all the different side effects that come with it, and all the you know, all the treatment effects that come on this drug was quite toxic. And I had it with two chemotherapies as well. So it was two chemotherapies plus this amavant synapse of three drugs at once, um, and it was really hard. So my face um I came out in blisters all over my face. Um, you can actually see it now if I've lost my hair. I've got little dips. That's from scarring from the blisters on my head where they just wouldn't heal. Um, I put on 10 kg in water weight, really breathless and everything, and it was really, really tough time. Unfortunately, one of the side effects with AmaVantanab is that you get blisters everywhere where you have um, how can I say fast, fast developing cells. So you get them in your mouth, um, but you also get them downstairs as well. I think hopefully all the listeners will know what I mean by that, otherwise, this story is gonna be meaningless. But you also get them downstairs, and um, that was difficult and painful. Um, and you have with Valindra a helpline to call if you have a side effect. And what you've got to do, you've got to stay on top of your side effects because if I develop an infection or if I'm too ill, I can't have my next treatment. And if I can't have my next treatment, my cancer will grow, and it's a vicious circle. So you've got to stay healthy, stay on top of your side effects, otherwise, you can really get yourself in a tricky situation. So I thought, okay, I'm gonna have to call about this one, which is the first time, you know, calling about feeling breathless or having a headache is simple. This is a bit more difficult. So the first thing that the wonderful nurse says is, why don't you just come in? We need to see, we've never seen this before. It's a new drug. I was the first person in Wales having it, so they've never experienced it. They've experienced that issue before, but not with this drug, so come in. So I go into Volindra, and um, I'm in very lucky you have a private room there because it was a bit of an embarrassing situation. And um I drove myself up to up to the hospital that day. Then literally, five or six different people come in because there's a new drug. They want to obviously see um what's going on. So everybody's looking at the issues that I've got downstairs and unanimously agree that it's not great, um, and um and that we definitely need something to improve it. So one of the wonderful um doctors says, Okay, I'm gonna go to the pharmacist, gonna grab the pharmacist and the district nurse, and we'll we'll bring back these sleeves that effectively you know go over downstairs and help for it to heal, so you'll be healed for your next next appointment. So I said, fine, no problem. Pharmacist district nurse um comes in and says, Okay, so we've got this sleeve that's gonna go on. What size would you like? So at that moment, because there's about five or six people in the room, I I immediately said extra large, which I think I could tell from her face that she didn't believe anyway. Um, but I I stuck with it and went with it. Because in my head, it's like every other drugs you get given, you get given the bag from pharmacy, you get told what you're doing, and you go home, and I thought, well, I'll just go home and cut it and sort it out when I get home, basically. Um, but that wasn't the case. So um back they come again another hour later and say, Okay, this is quite a unique type of sleeve to do, you've got to tie it and sit and wait to do it. I said, Yes, fine, you know, I'll I'll I'll work it out. I'm sure there's instructions. No, no, come on, come on, let's um let's do it now. So I thought, oh so I negotiated best I could, but I was losing. So we go into the bathroom and I obviously drop my trousers and um she opens the door and says, uh, could you run and get me medium, please? So um it was then we had to wait about 15 minutes while a colleague went and got a different size. It was the longest 15 minutes of my life. Um, and the best thing was as I was leaving, the pharmacist said to me, Emma, oh um, it's the it's the most common size we give out, don't worry. So just to make me feel better as well. But but this is this is a big part of it as well. You know, we went to watch Rod Gilbert's show um the other night, which I just thought was unbelievable. I I cried and laughed all the way through it. And and he talks about his experience, and there is humour from it, and you've got to take the humour from it because a dark humour, because otherwise it will just pull you down. Uh and Tracy and myself, we we laugh at situations and things all the time, and and I always try to make the nurses and colleges laugh as well, because if we're too serious on all this, it's you're never gonna get anywhere as well.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

Laughter is definitely the best medicine. 100%. You once said the cancer picked the wrong body. Uh it definitely did in you. Do you still believe that?

SPEAKER_01 39:24

Yes, I think there's times where lately, especially where things have got harder, you know, it's in 21 areas of my body now. Um, you know, and and my bones are the main issue, you know. It's in nine of my, you know, nine of my sp you know, my spine areas, um, shoulder. But I think it did definitely pick the wrong body, and I showed it that up front. You know, I think I've won the battle, but it's it's winning the war. But you know, I want to readdress that. And, you know, I'm always hopeful that there's something new coming on on a drug side. Um, and I'm gonna do all I can to try to stay here for my children's 18th. Um, that's my plan. If I can get them both to 18, um, I would be a medical miracle if that happened. I don't think it's anybody else that has lived that long with my cancer and my position, but somebody's got to be the first. So why can't it be me? So that self-talking, that that self-motivation is an important part of how I get through this. And especially when I was on the hills running, cycling, walking, climbing, you know, saying to myself, you know, cancer pick the wrong body when it picked me is helped me get through those moments as well.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

Incredible. Right, Craig, it's time for Maverick Maxims, quick answers, first instinct. What matters more right now, time or impact?

SPEAKER_01 40:43

Time. Yeah, time for me. Yeah. I think time with my family and my children, um, more than anything, you know, just going through that process of helping them, helping shape them, you know, understanding what my children need, supporting Tracy within that, you know, because a lot of the time that, you know, the carers are forgotten about and how hard it is for Tracy. But having time with them is um by far the most important thing, you know, and time with my mum, you know, is is really, really important for me.

SPEAKER_00 41:16

What's one thing people worry about that just doesn't matter?

SPEAKER_01 41:20

Oh, that's a great question. I think for me, it's always been the big thing I noticed, um, my relationships changed when I didn't really care what the opinion of somebody else of me was. I don't mean that in a negative way, and I don't mean, you know, like I was fake or false before, but you'd compromise sometimes yourself to support somebody else's opinion. And I've just found being myself completely, 100%, has actually deepened and strengthened my relationships. Um, and people welcome and want that. And I think sometimes we we dance around each other too much. For me now, and you know, I I mean ultimately I try to be as compassionate and kind, and it takes a lot to upset me or for me to get frustrated. Just be yourself, completely be yourself. Don't try to be anything else because I'm sure and I know you are amazing.

SPEAKER_00 42:06

You are good advice. What's the biggest myth about being strong?

SPEAKER_01 42:12

Oh, the myth about being strong. I think um I did create this persona for myself. I think that people thought he's a superman, he's gonna beat it, he's gonna do it. And and I actually found that quite hard to hear sometimes because I was really struggling and times are really hard. You know, there's been some days where you know I can't get out of bed or I can't walk to the bathroom. So showing that vulnerability has been really important, and talking about that and explaining that vulnerability as well has been really important for me because you know, people have seen me just on bike rides or walks, but it's been tough and it's difficult, and I'm very open with you know with friends about how tough it is and difficult, so they know and understand this isn't just you know a simple journey because it's not, it really isn't.

SPEAKER_00 42:58

Well, thank you for sharing those truths with us because it you know we all kind of know it, but we're not there in those moments that morning or whenever. Definitely. What's one thing cancer has forced you to see clearly?

SPEAKER_01 43:12

There's quite a few, really. Um, I come back to what I said before around, you know, you have everything that you need, you know, in most instances. You've got a great family supporting them and being with them, you know, and you know, not that I was never, you know, not a good dad to my children, but I certainly prioritised other things that on reflection just aren't important. And for me, it's all about all about, you know, really, really spending time and and understanding your children and working with them on what they want to become and and how they want to do that. Um, and again, in a world where there's so much distraction and there's so much bad distraction, you know, spending time with them to teach them what's right and what's wrong has been really important for me. And again, I really focus on kindness, honesty, compassion. Passion, you know, they're the things that you know, work ethic, they're the things that I really focus on with them. But for me, it's just been that refocus on family. It was always a focus, but trust me, you think you're focused on it back then. When something like that, this hits there's another 15 years that you can go that you only know when unfortunately you're told you've got limited time left that that that comes with that, really.

SPEAKER_00 44:22

I once went to a huge traumatic um uh situation with one of my children, and I'd came back to work after that, and people would come up to me saying, Oh, we've got a problem. So, you really haven't got a problem. That's not a problem, yeah. I have to take myself back to those days to remember who I was at that time, how happy I was after things became better, you know, um, because we do get convinced that everything around us is so important. Yeah, and you you you've as you rightly say, they're not. They are, but they're not. Okay, so the best piece of advice you've ever had.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

The best piece of advice I ever had from a work context, there was something that um a gentleman called Martin Phillips, and he worked with me. So when so when Martin started in 2015, I was very much what's next, gung-ho, don't get in my way, you know, I'm doing this, get out my way. And he he didn't give me advice, but he he there's not a line or something in particular, but he taught me two things really. One, he taught me about how much more enjoyable work and life is when you bring everybody else with you, and that you are that motivational leader and you are that person that can wrap your arms around and see the growth of other people at the same time as achieving goals together. And Martin did that beautifully, and he was very good at that, and he was very good at rationalizing problems as well. Where again I'd go to him and say, Big problem, this has happened. He'd be like, Well, there's two solutions, pick one, move on, it'll be gone in a week's time. Do you know what I mean? And he was right, completely right. None of that was a big problem. So I think the best advice I've ever had was really from Martin around changing my leadership style and becoming a far more compassionate, caring developer, which I which I also struggled with as well. Because remember, I was a very young boss, and a lot of people I was managing were older than me. Yeah, so coming through that time at WOU that was quite difficult because you know, trying to instill that into people at 20, 30 years old needed had far more life experience than you was difficult. But when I flipped that position to be a listener rather than a shouter, um helped me a lot. But he also taught me about prioritization, where he'd say to me, Have you done this bit of work for me? And I'd say, No, I haven't yet. He said, Okay, so you've chosen to prioritize something else instead of this. Your boss has asked you to do something, and you've chosen to prioritize these one or two items instead of this, and that always landed with me. And I do that to my kids now and they hate it. So if I say to them, you know, you know, take your washing upstairs, um, and they'll go off and they'll do something else. I said, well, it's fine. You you chose to prioritize something that your dad didn't ask you to do. So you clearly don't value, you know, in terms of what I'm I'm giving you here. They must hate me at the moment, bless them. But but that I found a really important balance as well, around actually what are the priorities, what what all do they need to be done, we need to get them done. But being a more compassionate, caring leader is what Martin taught me over a period of time, because I'm sure I wasn't uh an easy nut to crack, but he certainly cracked me and he and he changed. And and that that helped me dramatically when it came to my diagnosis. I think I'd have been a different person if I'd have carried on with that style of leadership, which was going to run out of time. It works for a small period of time being the you know, the elbows out, you know, shouty person. You know, you have to transition to be a true leader, um, a true inspirer, to that that compassionate position. And that helped me greatly when I was diagnosed as well. And I owe a lot to him for that. I do.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

I remember your career. I've watched it from the beginning. A maverick in the WIU. You you know, we we stood up when the um when the deals were made, particularly you know, with underarmour, that was, as you say, a big ticket. But I think the maverick nature came out particularly when you were faced with 12 months, then you turned that into an advantage when people say you can't, you did. And that is the definition of a maverick.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

Completely. And I think you know, I was told a lot that I was not gonna do these events, and I'll never forget actually, on the this the first bike ride we did on the second day, I was in agony. So I just found out the week before the bike ride from Cardiff Paris, and this was in the July 23, so nearly, nearly a year ahead. I just found out that um, well, first of all, I was told I shouldn't do it. I thought I'm gonna do it. And the second day I was in, I was in agony. I had real pain in my chest. Um, and I broke down crying on the bike. So because I was just this is unfair, this is cruel, and you know, that mental toughness that I usually have went. I was probably tired as well. Um, mental toughness went, and we and we got to um we we got to the the the the cafe stop, you know, the stop, and there's about 30 of the of the team there, and I just broke down, I was crying, and and you know, all the guys didn't really know what to do at that stage, and the event company were like, right, because obviously clearly they're thinking they've got an active cancer patient, he's in pain, we need to stop. And my mate came over to me and he looked me dead in the eye and he said, Put your helmet on, get on your bike, that's what you do. And he was right, and I did. I put my helmet on, I got on my bike, and I finished that day. And cutting through all of that and having him give me back that focus of, you know what, I am gonna do it, I don't care what they say, I'm gonna make it happen, is exactly what I needed. And and and that's happened a few times throughout these challenges, um, where these other people actually have reset it for me and have made me realise I can do this and I can have a go at it, and I can be the maverick and I can make a change. Um, and it's amazing what you your mind can do when your body feels like it can't in those situations as well.

SPEAKER_00 49:50

100%. I mean, I yeah. Wow. Um, what's a moment from the last year that made you genuinely smile?

SPEAKER_01 50:00

Um there's been a there's been something that's happened um where when people know that you are stage four and terminal, they open up and share with you a lot more. And that's hard and beautiful at the same time. And I've had instances where people have come and spoken to me, either people I know or people I don't know, um, have come and spoken to me about challenges they have, um, about where their their own mental health is, you know, and there's been some challenging conversations there. And and I feel very privileged that they do that. Um, it was quite a weird phenomenon at first, because you know, you're struggling with your own mortality within that position, then you know, you're talking to somebody else. But it's actually something I really enjoy doing is having those conversations and trying, because it doesn't always work, and trying to help other people. But it's amazing how people feel, I think, that energy and feel that somebody here understands you know how I feel. So that's happened quite a few times, quite randomly. You know, I was out walking one day, um, you know, a gentleman and separately a lady have come up to me and said, Are you Craig? And they've just told me something, um, which is amazing, incredible that they feel they can trust you in that way. But also, as well, I've had instances where you know I had a taxi driver um taking me into Cardiff, and he um it was just when I lost my hair, and he'd taken me before and he said, Oh, you've shaved your hair off. And I told him, No, I've I've been going through cancer treatment and everything. He pulled the taxi over and he got back into the car and he said, I'd like to pray for you. And we sat in the car for 10 minutes um on the side of a road um where he prayed for me. And I just thought for somebody to um give up their time to have that compassion was just incredible, it was just amazing. He charged me the full amount, by the way. It wasn't um it didn't turn the meter off for the 10 minutes, um, but I thought that was fine. And then there was a moment again when I talked at my old school um where one, you know, a 14-year-old girl came up to me at the end of my talk, and her words to me were, and she remembered the same age as my daughter, she put her hands out to me, and I checked with a teacher. I said, Am I allowed to touch her? My friends are teaching. And she said, Yes. So I put my hands on her hand, she said, I could not sleep tonight if I didn't pray for you and wish you all my best. And I just thought, wow, you know, that wonderful girl has had that confidence and that kindness to come up to me at the end and to do that. And and those moments do take my breath away because they're not expected, completely out of the blue, but it just shows the greatness in people, you know, and it just shows that people, you know, really care and really want to help you, um, and it's just beautiful and it's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 52:41

I always think of the word man-kind, I mean it's one, woman, kind, but kind is in that essence, and I think you know, we are at heart with kindness, and I think everything else around us knocks that out of you.

SPEAKER_01 52:55

Completely, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:56

Um so what does a really good day look like for you now?

SPEAKER_01 53:00

Oh, a great day at the moment. Well, it hopefully is going to get better. So I've just finished, I've just finished six rounds of chemo. So I'm on a new treatment now, which is four drugs, so two chemos and immune and two immunotherapies, basically. It's a really, really grueling regime. It's not given to many people, mainly because the side effects are too hard to tolerate. So you do four rounds. If you've got through the four rounds, then you can do the final two, the six. Not many get through the four, and I only just got through the four. So my immune system, um, you know, a normal immune system is about three or four um neutrophils. Um mine dropped down to 0.1, um, which meant I had to spend four days in Volindra just isolated because a small cold or anything could have unfortunately killed me. So, but we just got through and I've just finished the six treatment yesterday, which was just the immunotherapy. So I've dropped the chemo, which is 70% of the toxicity. So whilst I've been going on treatment, um, I've been out walking. So my aim is to get up, you know, and get up before you know 9:30, get up as early as I can, and then get out on a walk. And some days I've managed a mile, some days I've managed nine miles. Um, it all depends and varies. Come home, and then I like to try and either you know prepare tea for the kids, make sure that's all sorted for them. Trace is still working, so you know, she's she's in and out of home. Um I can't drive at the moment, which is a frustration, but but just trying to spend time with the kids then. So getting up, you know, eating well, trying to be active at the moment for the last sort of four months has been my has has been my aim to get through. But from this point now, if the and I'll find out in April if this drug is working or these drugs are working, if they are, I want to get back on my bike, I want to get back out doing fundraising, I want to live again, I want to really live. I don't want to be stuck in the house. You know, I want to get out there, I want to again show my children that because they've seen me really dip. I want them to see this dip, they've seen it, they understand it, but they all want them to see me come out of it now as well. So that's what my goal is next, is to really the next challenge, you know, which there will be one, definitely. You definitely.

SPEAKER_00 55:09

Well, I'm riding with you.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

Yes, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 55:11

Yeah, I'll wait for you.

SPEAKER_01 55:12

Yeah, it could not be as long as the other ones, but we'll have a we'll have a short ride, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 55:16

Yeah, yeah. Craig, someone who's watching this or listening to it is going through something difficult and they're not sure how to keep going. What would you say to them?

SPEAKER_01 55:26

I think for me, talking through it has been important. And you know, a lot of the cliches are true for a reason in that space, but you know, there are times where I really hold things and it pulls you down more than anything. So for me, talking, you know, expressing how you feel um is really, really important. Um, and I think that's become something that's really helped me. And I have it, I'm very lucky I've got a big network of people to support. And the way I'm feeling on certain days and certain things will mean I'll maybe go to a different person to have that conversation, you know, because not all challenges are the same. But I think, you know, be kind to yourself as well. You know, you're not it's not as bad or as hard as you really truly think it is, you know, really, really be kind to yourself as well. And I think that's something I've had to learn to do, you know. Like I said at the start, you know, I was really self-critical, never felt like I achieved enough, you know. And I look back at it and I was stupid, you know, what a stupid, stupid sort of strap line to have, as you could be a great man if it wasn't for yourself, you know, and that's why I used to really think that. Um, and that would drive me more to do more and more. But and I think that's an absolute load of rubbish, you know. And I think that for me now, anybody that's going through a challenge is just really, really, you know, talk about it, take your time and be kind to yourself. And you will come through it. You will, definitely. You've got the strength to do it. You really have.

SPEAKER_00 56:49

Greg Maxwell, this has been one of the most powerful conversations I've ever had, and also I feel deeply privileged mid-treatment uh that you've come in and found time to share your story. It's been remarkable. Thank you. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 57:04

I have to say as well, a big thank you to you for all the support you've given me. You know, you supported me in the walk, you've supported us with the accommodation, I've ridden with you and and your family. So a massive thank you to you and your family for all the support you've given me as well.

SPEAKER_00 57:16

Oh, you're very it was nothing. It was nothing.

SPEAKER_01 57:19

It meant a lot to me.

SPEAKER_00 57:21

Thank you. From the boredoms of rugby to changing how cancer is diagnosed in Wales, Craig has shown that adversity doesn't just test us, it reveals us. To everyone watching, the world doesn't change by playing it safe. Sometimes the Maverick move is simply deciding to keep going. I'm Emirava and see you next time on Inside the Maverick Mind.