Ep 20 | Lucia Rowe | Fear Doesn't Get the Final Word: Surviving a Dictator & Leukaemia

What does it take to survive a dictatorship, build a career across five continents, beat leukaemia - and then run 270 kilometres across the Sahara?

In this episode of Inside the Maverick Mind, host Emyr Afan sits down with Lucia Rowe - linguist, travel industry leader, cancer survivor, and ultramarathon runner -to explore one of the most extraordinary life stories you'll ever hear.

Lucia grew up in Ceaușescu's Romania, where the knock on the door in the night was a constant terror. Two of her school friends were killed in the street during the revolution. And yet, from those dark beginnings, she built a 25-year career in the travel industry, helped launch and scale A-Rosa River Cruises in the UK and beyond, and became a powerful voice for breaking down barriers in business.

Then came the diagnosis nobody wants - leukemia, during COVID. With no immunity and a global pandemic raging, Lucia chose to fight. She made a plan. She drew on something bigger than herself. And five years later, she is in full remission.

Not content with that, she took on the Marathon des Sables - one of the world's toughest ultramarathons - was medically withdrawn the first time, and went straight back to finish it in 2026.

This is a conversation about fear, endurance, sunshine moments, solidarity in the sand, and what it really means to keep moving towards the light.

Topics covered:

Growing up under Ceaușescu and the lasting trauma of the Securitate

Building A-Rosa River Cruises from scratch in the UK market

Facing a leukemia diagnosis during COVID and choosing to fight

Running 60+ marathons and 15 ultramarathons post-illness

The camaraderie and raw humanity of the Marathon des Sables

Raising £50,000+ for Ruben's Retreat and the Family Holiday Charity

What success, freedom, and resilience really mean

Ruben's Retreat:

Family Holiday Charity: 

Inside the Maverick Mind - conversations with people who do things differently.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Some people become mavericks because they want adventure. My guest today became one because she grew up understanding very early that safety could disappear overnight. Luciano grew up in Transylvania under Chai Chai School's regime in a world of fear, secrecy, scarcity, and the constant dread of the knock on the door. She has spoken about living with that vigilance ever since. Two of her school friends were killed in the street walking home from school. That kind of beginning leaves a mark, and yet her story is not defined by fear. It becomes a story of movement, of building a major career in the travel industry, of surviving leukemia, and marking five years in remission. And then, because apparently all that wasn't enough, we're back to the finish the marathon disabler across the Sahara after being forced to stop the first time. This is a story about fear, endurance, discipline, and those sunshine moments that stay with you for life when you grow up with very little. Luciano is our guest, let's get inside her Maverick mind. Let's start where it all begins. You've spoken about growing up in Transylvania under Chaycescu in a constant fear of keeping the family safe. What did that environment do to you as a child?

SPEAKER_01 1:21

So growing up in communism, in a dictatorship, um puts you very much in a bubble. It's a very kind of enclosed environment. It's um it can be lonely, it can be um quite frightening at times. There are not many chances and not many opportunities when you're in a bubble. Um it's it's it's all contained. My childhood though was absolutely brilliant because I was very lucky to be the only daughter of um two amazing parents who did their absolute best to protect me and to offer me everything that a child should have growing up, meaning a lot of love, a lot of care, and trying to keep me away from the ugly things that we were surrounded by. However, childhood in a dictatorship was determined in terms of staying safe, in terms of trying your very best to keep safe, um, by the sheer fact of not talking about certain things. We need to learn from a very early age to keep quiet on certain subjects. So, yes, childhood, you know, still evokes the most brilliant memories, however, um the fear was living amongst us.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

You've described the knock on the door as something that never really leaves you. Do you still feel that hyper-vigilant now?

SPEAKER_01 2:49

I do. Um it was one of the main characteristics of our particular dictat dictatorship. So um obviously all of Eastern Europe um has been going through this, but there were various levels of it. Um in our case, Causescu had the so-called Securitate that was his secret police, and they had this habit of coming in the night and just taking away parents, grandparents, or mostly adults, into their secret places at the police stations to be interviewed. Basically, it was trying, the whole mechanism was trying to instill the feeling of fear, uncertainty. Um you were you were made to admit things that you might or might have never been doing. Um, and also another major tool was them trying to tell on other people. And other people were often part of the same family, which was of course very, very bad. Out of which comes the story of never trust the night. Um, the night was the worst, and um the feeling of not trusting the night um stays with me until this very day.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

So you can be apprehensive when you hear a knock that you don't recognize.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Yeah, particularly at night, and uh I'm still very much followed by those nightmares that I, you know, started to have in childhood. It's the fear of what would happen if. And the problem with that was that even after being interviewed and questioned, you never knew if those people would come back to you. So as a child you feel that um, you know, desperation and and angst um that this could happen. It could happen to you because it happened to your neighbors, because it happened to your friends.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

I'm so sorry to hear that. How how often did they come for your parents?

SPEAKER_01 4:46

In my living memory, I think some of the um my memory has been not erased, but probably all always, you know, allocated into boxes that I never want to go and and reopen. But I remember, clearly remember two occasions. Um however, it was my grandparents, they were, you know, not just being taken away, but my my great grandparent and my grandfather, they were taken away and even tortured during these interviews. So that will stay with me forever.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

And you've lived through something most people listening can barely imagine. Two school friends killed in the street while walking home. How would experience like that shape the way you see life?

SPEAKER_01 5:32

So many people probably don't know that when the Berlin Wall came down and communism um was supposed to be erased, that didn't happen overnight. What actually happened in countries like Romania was that um a an internal civil war broke out because the dictator was still alive, um he still had a lot of power, and that meant that his secret police and his closest allies were fighting against the revolution, basically. At a later stage, the Romanian army decided to join in this fight against him. So there were tanks on the street, there was fighting, there um, you know, was was running back. So me and my friends, we were actually running back from high school, and this is when, you know, some some of my classmates uh were were killed. Um it helps you sharpen the focus, something like this. It shows you that um you can't ever probably take life for granted, um, and that everything that you really have is this very moment. There's nothing else.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

Yeah, no, that's so true. One phrase of yours really stayed with me. You've described childhood holidays, even tiny ones, as sunshine moments. What do you really mean by that?

SPEAKER_01 6:54

Again, going back to those times, um, people in Romania uh during the dictatorship, we uh were not allowed to uh leave our country for holidays or for whatever reason, meaning um we were not allowed to have passports um and to travel abroad was not allowed. However, what we had was this most beautiful country. Romania has got a bit of everything, it got everything from seaside to high mountains, it's got you know loads of UNESCO sites, which we were not really supposed to know about in those days, but we did. Um brilliant skiing in this in the in in the winters. Um there was a lot to be explored. So um people did take advantage of that. We did go on amazing holidays within the country, um, and this brought moments of sheer happiness and joy. Um there were families traveling together, you know, summer holidays spent on the beach, um, and we did make the best of it, I would say.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

So you hold on to those sunshine moments, and but you needed something, hope, to keep you going in that in those dark times.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

And hope, I guess, was always there, particularly for us. We were children, we never experienced another world. We didn't know that there had been something before communism. Obviously, our parents and grandparents they had experienced the life before. Romania between the two world wars had been a really um a beautiful and and and successful and very rich country and um people lived very well back then. However, um yes, being being children in a regime like that meant that every little every little moment of happiness and of spending a happy time with uh our family and friends uh was very much cherished.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

Do you think growing up with so little made you more able to recognize joy when it came?

SPEAKER_01 8:54

Now here it very much depends what you mean with little. Um if by little you mean that uh yes, because we lived in communism and we never had the big brands, we didn't have McDonald's, we didn't have Coca-Cola, but we didn't have exotic fruit, for example, either, like oranges or bananas. Sometimes, some winters, um, you know, we were part of our rations because everything was was rationed, you know, from bread to butter to milk to eggs. Uh sometimes in in some winters we were allowed to get one orange per head or one banana, so we we knew they existed. Yes, so if you mean little, you know, like yes, in that context, yes, we had little. Nowadays I know though that what we had back then uh was a very, very deep sense of care for each other because of the situation we were in. Um there was a very deep understanding, a genuine love, um, support, and a huge spirit of solid solidarity. And nowadays I still draw onto that fact and that joy of you know, that little that we had was actually very important, and if you look at it through another lens, it was not that little at all.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

No, no, I agree. And does that explain in part why your charity work has been so focused on giving children and families those moments of escape?

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Very much so. I think that um children will be children no matter, you know, where they grow up in. Uh it the the environment uh will of course, you know, limit, you know, their their their ways to express it. And I realize that, you know, what my parents did for me to offer me the best that was, you know, possible, you know, under those circumstances. I still look back on my childhood as the most wonderful things. And I think that every child deserves, you know, to have you know what I had to, you know, to be growing up. And it might sound, you know, a bit paradoxical, but there was a very happy childhood, and I would like, you know, to be doing as much as possible and to enable every single family and every single parent to do to do that for their children as well.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

Well you certainly have. Let's move into the professional story. You've built more than 25 years in travel, and after being part of AROSA early on, you returned in 2015 to launch and scale the brand in the UK before stepping down in October 2025. You've also continued to serve on the ITT board, Institute of Travel and Tourism, and CLIA, Cruise Line International Association. What pulled you into the travel industry in the first place?

SPEAKER_01 11:42

That is a good question. Um I am a linguist and I speak five languages. Um I graduated so with my first degree uh in English and German literature, but somehow I felt that there was more. And this more, just by pure chance, I discovered uh this travel and tourism degree um that was offered in Athens, in Greece. Okay. Um so I just went for it. It was uh one of the best decisions that I ever made, again, very much supported by my lovely parents. Um hospitality was, of course, invented in Greece. The world philoxenia, you know, the love of strangers, um, it resonated with me on a very, very deep level. I fell in love with the industry while studying it there. Then my first in-service uh training during my degree was on board of a cruise ship, and uh I literally I never looked back, you know. The travel and the cruise industry became my life. However, what also became very apparent was that besides loving everything that the travel industry does uh and how it operates was the fact that um travel has this fantastic um capability of breaking down barriers. It became a real focus for me to be part of something that you know was so powerful. I had fought stigma and and you know preconceptions and barriers all my life, um, and I had finally found the industry that allowed me to do that on a professional level.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Was travel for you about business or freedom?

SPEAKER_01 13:22

It was definitely about both. Um travel allowed me to explore the world, um, and I always traveled and worked in as many places that I could possibly embrace at any which time. I remained permanently opened to whatever was next, whatever door was opening or whatever um a new challenge you know was waiting. Um I always, you know, made a case for throwing myself into it. Um and I think that has also shown me that usually and generally it's it's worth taking that risk, you know. When a door opens, I just have that feeling that I have to walk through it. You know, there's a reason why it's there.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

I love that image of you walking through those doors, uh, given your background and you know the fact you had the opportunity is fantastic. What did you see in the A Rosa River Cruiser's opportunity that made you believe you could build something meaningful in the UK market?

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Right, so I fell in love with river cruising as a concept first, and this is what showed me that there was so much more there, you know, going back to the stigma, the preconceptions. So I identified, I rose, I was part of the startup team, you know, building that particular brand, building the product, and I had limitless belief in it. Um, so much belief that, you know, so we we we managed to build it up to one of the most successful brands, and um it became, it went on to become market leader in the German-speaking market. Uh, when the opportunity came back for me to take it into the international markets, English-speaking markets, I didn't hesitate. I had this firm belief that this was right, it was the product that um was needed, and that for me personally, it gave me the opportunity to prove my point that river cruising is not just some something that is just for old people, it can be a wonderful way of um being on holiday for everyone.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

I can see you relish that challenge. Loved it. Didn't you face kickback though? Because people had that preconception.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

I did, and um it was not just a preconception, but also the sheer fact that when I came to the UK um on a in a professional capacity, um, so moving basically the brand from a strictly German-speaking environment into the English-speaking markets. It wasn't just the UK, it was US, it was South Africa, it was Australia. Um I was alone at uh the very beginning, you know, with these new markets. Um, and the the problem that I had was that I didn't know a single soul in in Britain, as in, you know, a professional kind of um sense. So the biggest challenge was actually building that network, you know, going in there and speaking to people, finding out that it was very, very valuable first partnerships, you know. Um making people believe that they can trust me, you know, that I was somebody, you know, they could take me seriously. I I was becoming a brand before Arosa became a brand. And that was, you know, what you know ultimately contributed to, you know, what what what has been done with the brand and the product today.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Yes, I can see that you still are that brand. What's the variety of river cruises you could have these days?

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Oh, that you know, it's just extraordinary how multifaceted this product has become in the last 10-15 years. Um, there really is a river cruise now for everyone, in terms of, you know, if you are a solo traveller or um, you know, a child-friendly like Arosa, you know, is to this very day, um, or even um an adult-only, you know, kind of but also you can uh go by likes and dislikes as if you know you can explore your hobbies nowadays on the river cruise. So if you're in a you know particularly attached to photography or art or music, um there are certain river cruise lines that yeah, you know, offer exactly that type of experience. So mostly I think it has become uh a much more mainstream type of holiday. So our all the brands, you know, that that I've been you know very lucky to work with, and we were very, very competitive, you know, very competitive landscape. Um but I think it has shown that working together uh in the last 10-15 years was worth it because we took River Cruising out of that niche holiday market and demonstrated that um you know it can be mainstream and it can appeal to a very, very wide type of audience.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

We just had one customer now. Perfect. Welcome on board. Thank you. Um after a decade leading the UK business, what told you it was time to step away and look at what comes next?

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Right, milestone moment hit last uh year. I turned 50. Um, and it wasn't the age particularly, but it was that feeling that the chapter with Arosa um had come to a very good place. I wouldn't say necessarily an ending because you never know what's around the corner. But at that very moment, you know, the the brand, the product, you know, we we had managed, you know, the team and I to put it on the map. Um and I'm a bit of a wanderer, as probably you could um, you know, find out during you know our our chat. Um it's not just freedom that I seek, but it's those challenges, those moments that might be waiting around the corner. And when I start to feel this way, literally like a wanderer, you know, the need to wander has been awakened. That was it. You know, I knew that um I was there ready for whatever might come next.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

We ask every guest this. What was your maverick moment, the point where you realized you were going to do things your own way? Was it that in childhood or in business?

SPEAKER_01 19:33

It was probably the first time when um actually working and representing a Rosa in the UK market. I stood on a stage and I had to speak in front of the top 400 execs and leaders of the travel and tourism industry. It was ever so frightening. I could feel the questions, you know, that you know, these people had, you know, in their mind, they're probably asking, and who's she? And you know, what's where did she come from? And obviously, accents, you know, I'm very aware that, you know, speaking so many languages, I um speak with a foreign accent. Um and speaking about stigmas and preconceptions, you know, often um during my career when I mentioned, you know, coming from Romania and so on, some people, you know, might you know react um a bit, you know, interestingly.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

Yeah, but in that period, probably you did experience that.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Speaking of barriers, so uh, but my maverick moment was that I suddenly realized I belong to be here, I deserve to be on this stage, I have something to say and I have a voice, and most importantly, I had people who believed me amongst the audience, and I spoke to them in those moments. Um to this very day I feel very um anxious and emotional before going on a stage, although you know I do it often. Um, but despite the fear and the anxiety, I take every opportunity to um do a bit of public speaking because I feel I have a voice and I feel that I should use it.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

I'm glad you do, because you certainly do have that voice, and I think that you've owned that stage. You've done everything you could to deserve to be there. You were diagnosed with leukemia during COVID, and you've now marked five years in remission. What did that diagnosis do to your sense of self?

SPEAKER_01 21:35

Um being diagnosed with something as serious as leukemia makes um people, and I'm sure everybody out there who has gone through something like this would probably agree. Uh makes one feel really small. You feel vulnerable, you feel afraid, but you also feel very much in shock. It's hard to accept at the beginning, and you might even feel Feel frustrated with life. Why me? Having this diagnosis during the worst, what COVID has been was especially hard because leukemia basically leaves you with no immunity, and COVID, you know, if that had hit before I was so lucky to receive my first vaccine, I wouldn't have survived. It became a particularly hard fight, but I recognized it as being a fight, and I think that was my saving grace. I think going back to your question, what it did to me, it made me think very fast, this is happening, this is happening quickly. What choices do I have? You know, because we are human, the first reaction was despair. The first reaction was, you know, falling to my knees and crying and feeling weak. But then one thing happened. Um I saw the fear in my children's eyes, and I heard the trembling in my husband's voice. And I I simply knew that that was not an option, you know. Um I uh it had to be something else. Um so basically I think that everybody, you know, who's facing this kind of um diagnosis and and challenge in life, you know, has got two options. You either fight or you flight. And um that's what I had to do. I decided to fight because I didn't want that fear on my children's faces, and I didn't want my husband's voice keep going in a that trembling manner.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

How did you hold on to yourself during treatment?

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Oh, that is actually quite um um, I think it's been transformational for me. Um I quickly realized that I needed a plan. Uh uh if you're going to fight, you need a plan. You need to see what you can do, you know. I um I knew that my doctors would fight for me. They put a plan together for me, but I wanted more. So I went into this space of not just being a passive receiver of treatment, but having my hematologist team around me and asking each and one of them, by the way, I had eight because my type of leukemia was such a rare thing. And I asked each and every one of them about contributing to my plan. In other words, what was my part in all of this? They were there with the care, with the chemo, with the medicine, with everything that, you know, they were supposed to do. But I had this very deep feeling that I had a part to play as well. So I went on and, you know, put this plan together that, you know, I religiously stuck to through the entire time. And part of my plan originally was to just survive and get out of hospital because who wants to be in hospital? And then something extraordinary happened. I started to see the hospital and all the people there who were looking after me as a safe haven. And the plan was changing yet again. They became, you know, partners and friends at my side. I didn't want to leave the hospital at all costs. I only wanted to leave it when it was the right time to do so. Um, and that was a major shift in the way um, you know, I had to think about it.

SPEAKER_00 25:39

Before the diagnosis, you started running, and when you were released, here comes one of the wildest parts of your story. The Martin de Sable, around 270 kilometers across the Sahara. You attempted it once, had to be medically withdrawn, and then went back in 2026 and finished it. Why did you have to go back?

SPEAKER_01 26:02

It's the same story that um defied my fight against leukemia, really. Um, the frustration, the fear, um the failure, the sense that you know your body was failing you. Um the same body failed me again in the Sahara Desert. I had discovered running only a week before my diagnosis. I had run my first marathon and I felt invincible for one week, and then this terrible diagnosis came. Why I went on to run 60 marathons and 15 ultramarathons and attempted and finally succeeded, Marathon de Sable was because I had experienced that feeling of you know being able to draw on something bigger than ourselves. In um those dark moments when I was fighting leukemia, I knew that something bigger was looking out there for me. There was somebody else looking and helping me. And I knew that when coming back from this, I knew I was gonna come back from this. I wanted to do something to bring a bit of light to all the people that, you know, hadn't been so lucky to either survive or, you know, lost somebody. So that was that. I I had to go back because I knew that I had it in me. The desert defeated me once when I went there the first time last year, but I knew I had yet again a choice. I could either just, you know, give up and say maybe this is not for me, although I had become a serious marathon runner by then. Yes, so um this might not be for me, or just pick up the fight again and go and you know face it again and in another way.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

You're not a quitter, I know that. But also you go to Marathon de Sable, it's one of the well, it is the ultimate marathon in the world with the hardest, and you go there and it's full of marines and ex-military. And Lucia, who's just come over, got over leukemia. I mean, it's unbelievable. Was finishing it about proving something to the world or proving something to yourself?

SPEAKER_01 28:21

I don't think the world cares very much, to be to be perfectly honest with you, about our achievements, about failure, about anything that we do really. The world just moves on very quickly, you know, whatever we might think, you know, that it might do. But I cared. I cared really a lot, and I wanted to go back because I had put myself, my body, my mind through something so hard, you know, like last year, you know, going into that race and and running three-quarters of it was proper hard. So I couldn't possibly accept that, you know, that was it. So um that medal had to come home. And that chapter needed closing. And also, you know, I had promised my you know wonderful friends at um Rubin's uh retreat at the charity that that I was running it for, you know, that I would do it. And the other thing that was incredibly important for me was this show of strength. I showed it and I demonstrated it during leukemia, but I felt, you know, like like you say, you know, I'm not a quitter. So those six days, whatever happened next, and we don't know what's around the corner, but I will always have that. For those six days in the sand, on my own, with everything that I needed for survival on my back, I was exceptionally strong. And that sense of strength will always be with me.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

Deep strength. It's not always physical, it's mental.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

Very much so, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

And how were you the night before, the second time around, which is only a couple of months ago now? Describe your mood. Nervous, anxious?

SPEAKER_01 30:04

It was absolutely soul-destroying the way I felt. I thought that I would be there with all my usual enthusiasm and energy, but what I actually felt, and it started the week before, really, um, was an absolute sense of fear. And I recognized it because I came across many types of fear before. And I recognized it as fear of failure. That was what it was. But it wasn't just that, it was also the fear of knowing what I was in for, because obviously I had experienced it the year before, you know. Sometimes not knowing, you know, is is sheer bliss, you know, ignorance can be, you know, a really good friend for you at times. This time I knew what was there, and I knew what I was I was facing. So to the very moment when the race started properly and we were off, I was always almost paralyzed with fear, and that was hard to accept. I shared the fear with my friends there and with perfect strangers. Um I received their encouragement, I cried a lot uh on the starting line, and then I just, you know, set off, and that was that.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

I mean, you have to be self-sustaining. You're running in sand, which saps your energy, 270 kilometers. On paper it sounds like the most individual thing imaginable self-sufficiency, pain, endurance, one foot in front of the other. But what was the camaraderie actually like out there when everyone is stripped back physically and emotionally? Were people out for themselves, or do you find humanity and compassion in those very dark places?

SPEAKER_01 31:47

I think for me, the race encompasses the very best that humanity can offer. And this is what I found the most enriching, the most um useful thing that I learned, you know, from being in the race, uh mastering the race. Um, yes, nobody can run the race for you. You have to do it yourself. On the other hand, it is such a mammoth thing to do that it's almost too big, I think, for the brain to comprehend it, you know, when you're at the starting line, you hear people talking about it, you prepare for it for at least half a year, some people the years preparing. However, when you are there and you witness that um hostility of what the Sahara is to a human being, I think you start to understand very quickly that this is not a thing to be mastering on your own. And what happens, I think there's a very tacit and mutual understanding that is, understanding that is happening amongst the participants, is that whatever happens, we are each here to contribute to each other's successes, to make sure that as much as possible everybody finishes and everybody is being taken onto that journey. And it happened, I think, to the vast majority of us. It happened to me, you know, when you know I faced very different challenges in the Sahara this year, and and I was supported and helped by uh the most incredible lady from Brazil called Gio, and I wouldn't have finished my race without her. And in turn, again it happened to me because you know, when I realized that one of my friends was facing the night on his own and realizing that, you know, he had been injured the day before, um, I had absolutely no choice and no regret risking, you know, the race because every stage is timed, and sticking with him until, you know, we wandered through that night and we came out at the other end and we crossed that finish line of that particular stage. So if anything is to be learned out of that extreme environment and that extreme challenge, is that humanity is still out there and people are still very, very good to each other when it matters most.

SPEAKER_00 34:08

I've experienced that camaraderie in an extreme event, uh not to those degrees, but I've seen it, and it's just fantastic to see mankind or womankind is at the heart of things. We're in this together. There's one instance in particular which will stay with you forever, isn't there?

SPEAKER_01 34:25

Yes, there is. Um, in that particular night, there were three of us who were promising to each other that we would finish this together. Uh, one injured, one a very good athlete, um, and little me, who had been defeated in this equivalent of that exact night, you know, the year before, on the top of a dune in the middle of the night, when um the moon came out, a huge orange moon, and the stars, you know, were just this incredible dome uh above our heads. And uh we looked at each other and we just said, just pause here for a second, switch off our torches, um, and uh let us just be. And something happened to us that night. We were looking up and we were crying and laughing together, and we knew we had made it in that very moment. We knew.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

But what does that kind of environment reveal about people?

SPEAKER_01 35:25

It reveals everything. That is the scary bit. There's no secret in the desert. There's no secret from each other, but uh most kind of impressive things and also terrifying at times is that you find out everything about yourself, what you are made of, what mistakes you maybe made in the past and you never asked for forgiveness. I found myself asking for a lot of forgiveness in the desert, and I think many, many people experienced this. I also was privileged and humbled to be on the receiving end on you mentioned Marines, lots of ex-army people, um, and you know, the stories that you hear. Some of those stories had never been told because they were too terrible or too personal and and you know shocking to be told. And the Sahara revealed it all, brings it all out.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

So it's a deeply spiritual experience, you know, when you've got nothing left in the tank, it all comes out, isn't it? In in the in the night of you know in the in the starry sky. Yes. I've got to ask, having already gone through leukemia treatment, why put your body through that kind of extreme effort, not once but twice, but you continue to do sixty plus marathons and fifteen ultra marathons. Yeah, sixty and fifteen. Remarkable. Thank you. You've done over time and you've raised funds. Um what keeps you going?

SPEAKER_01 37:00

I think it's a thirst for life that keeps me going. I got this um second chance of being alive, of staying alive, um, of building, I think, a life after illness. And I just refused, I think, to um live in a bubble again. To, you know, live with too many precautions, to, you know, constantly think about what could happen. Um, fear of, you know, what might be around the corner if I put my body through all of this fear is something that I don't want to ever allow to hold me back. So I just decided to live the best life I can, you know, and not just doing the best for myself, but also constantly looking out, you know, maybe somebody needs my help. What can I do for somebody today? It's become my mantra, and this is why I do everything I do, because there's more to life than just um, you know, looking after yourself all the time.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

It is the joy to give others, definitely. Your endurance challenges have raised more than 50,000 for Rubens Retreat and the Family Holiday Charity. Why do you choose those causes?

SPEAKER_01 38:18

Well, I guess because mostly um they are looking after families um with children, families who lost children, families who have children who deserves, you know, deserve a better future. But also very much because both of these charities are very closely linked to our travel industry. Particularly one of them, Rubens Retreat, um, everybody there, you know, became, you know, my extended family. I am just hugely motivated. I've just come back from, you know, their their home in in Glossop, um, where Nick and and her team are absolutely extraordinary at, you know, giving something back to families who are facing uh very, very uncertain futures with their children. Every time I see them, every time I speak to them, every time I see the extraordinary work they do, uh it blows me away and it motivates me massively, massively to go on.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

But I think your own childhood made you especially sensitive to what small moments of joy you can give a child.

SPEAKER_01 39:23

Yes, and I think if a child is surrounded by the right uh love, understanding, support, it doesn't really matter, you know. We all face challenges and you know we're we're we are all you know in this big life kind of thing that we we we think that we can control everything, we can't. But children are very resilient and we can learn a lot from their resilience. I became very resilient because, you know, of the regime I grew up with. Um and children, I think, you know, should be encouraged wherever they are to just have a normal and loving childhood. That's all they need. Then, you know, they they they will spread their wings and they they they they will fly.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

Well, thank you for giving those sunshine moments to so many children through your endeavors. Honestly, it touches my heart. You're based in Cardiff, still active across the industry and serving on the ITT board, as I said. What matters most to you in this next chapter?

SPEAKER_01 40:31

We're going back to freedom here. I think uh that is the next chapter. It's uh totally um marked and surrounded by that idea that I can't wait to see what is next. And you know, I because I'm in that mind frame where I'm expecting things to happen, I know that that proverbial door is out there. Um I'm so ready for it. I you know, and I can't wait.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

I couldn't get over because Simon and yourself came to our place in White Sands over the weekend, and whilst most of us were having a lie in, you were on top of the mountain or on the coast, and the pictures that you sent were full of joy and living life large.

SPEAKER_01 41:14

Yes, I think that success and happiness can be defined obviously in many ways and are, you know, mean different things to different people. For me personally, you know, like last weekend at White Sand Cottages, you know, it was the sheer spirit of laughter and life that was encompassed by, you know, just climbing up that, you know, little mountain behind, you know, the the the wonderful beach, uh feeling that sunshine on my face and and just enjoying the you know knowledge that I am alive and I can still do so many things, you know, for me and for others. That that's what it's all about to me.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

You shared a moment with the horses.

SPEAKER_01 41:58

I did. We were having a moment where we stared at each other with the wild horses while I was um going from said mountain to St. David's head across the heather. I think I must have surprised them being out so early. There was absolutely nobody else there. They were having a quiet moment, and I think, you know, I was I I was intruding on them, so they stared me out. I'm not even uh, you know, I I I I don't mind admitting. I stared back at them.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

Of course you did.

SPEAKER_01 42:27

With all my might, but we became friends very quickly.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

So after everything, Romania, illness, business, the desert, what does success feel like now?

SPEAKER_01 42:38

Success is um knowing that I have the strength and the determination of embracing what everything life throws at me. Um it's also about being out and about, you know, it's it's um about being able to just putting on my trainers, uh leaving my house in in Cardiff and getting lost in nature. Um that is the success of being a survivor, and um I will always hold on to that feeling. This is why wherever I go, wherever we travel around the world, the trainers go in first. Every suitcase starts with a pair of trainers.

SPEAKER_00 43:25

Right Lucia, time for Maverick Maxims. Quick answers, first instinct. What matters most? Safety or freedom? Freedom, of course. Correct. One thing people waste too much energy on.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

Overthinking, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 43:41

Oh yeah, okay. Guilty as charged.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

We all do it, we all do it.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

The biggest myth about resilience?

SPEAKER_01 43:49

That it's the goal and that final, you know, line uh when you cross the finish line is is is the thing. Um In fact it's not, it's one foot in front of the other.

SPEAKER_00 44:03

Yeah, every day. What's one thing that adversity gave you?

SPEAKER_01 44:09

Um resilience, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

A quality every great leader needs.

SPEAKER_01 44:15

Every great leader should show some vulnerability at some point.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

What's one thing travel teaches that life should?

SPEAKER_01 44:24

That there's always laughter and joy to be ha to be had if you look out for it.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

What does a good day look like now for you?

SPEAKER_01 44:32

Oh, that's an easy one. A good day is me putting the trainers on and running a marathon with my friends from Wales into England and back crossing the old bridge.

SPEAKER_00 44:44

Okay, I'll cycle it. I won't run it.

SPEAKER_01 44:46

That's equally good.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

Yeah, it is actually. What's the best decision you've ever made?

SPEAKER_01 44:52

Throwing myself through every open door.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

Yes. And what's the one that taught you the most, would you say?

SPEAKER_01 45:00

That was actually my divorce, becoming a single mom. Um yeah. That taught me that um I wasn't invincible after all, but also that you can get up after, you know, something as painful as that.

SPEAKER_00 45:17

We always finish with this line, complete the sentence. A maverick is someone who dot dot dot.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

Dot dot dot. A maverick is someone who can embrace and accept every curveball that life throws at them. Um adapting and regrouping, and then starting again with the same or even more of the level of enthusiasm than before.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

Oh yes, I know that one. If someone is listening to this and feels frightened by illness, uncertainty, by life, what would you want them to hear from you?

SPEAKER_01 45:59

I would want them to go very deep within themselves and recognize how strong they actually are and how capable they are of giving love and you know being loved in return. And I think the other thing that is really, really important if somebody's feeling low or frightened is to recognize that whatever we do, we have to remember that we are born with that, you know, very special, divine, I would say, sparkle. You know, only humans are. We have to cherish that. We must never allow that little light to go out. This is, you know, what being human means, and we have to be very protective of it.

SPEAKER_00 46:50

I love that answer. Thank you. You're welcome. Lucia, thank you so much. Uh what I take from your story is that fear may have shaped the beginning, but it never got to write the ending. I'm touched by the whole journey. You've turned survival into stamina, discipline into freedom, and adversity into a way of giving back joy to people, which is phenomenal, really. That to me is the Maverick mind, you know, uh uh the ultimate Maverick Mind in that sense. Not just endurance, not just ambition, but the ability to keep moving towards the light even after growing up in the dark.

SPEAKER_01 47:25

Thank you, Em. It was wonderful to be here and revisiting all the stories. It's actually, yes, been very, very beautiful for me. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 47:34

Oh, well, thank you for sharing. It's been uh cathartic in many ways. To everyone watching, the world doesn't change by playing it safe. Sometimes the Mavic movies deciding the fear doesn't get the final word. I'm Emi Rabba and see you next time on Inside the Maveric Mind.