After The Amen - Ep. 27

Welcome to “After The Amen” 🙏 
The goal of this podcast is to revisit the message from the previous Sunday in order to unpack the passage even further, ask key questions, and discover how faith can practically move from Sunday morning into every day of the week.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

How's it going, everybody? Welcome to After the Amen. This is our podcast segment here at Frankenwood Bible Church, where we talk about the stuff from Sunday morning and we unpack it even further. We take the message and unpack it throughout the week. And once again, I'm joined by Mark Hazen. Pastor Mark. Glad to be here. How are you doing? I'm doing excellent. How are you doing? Good.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Good. You finished a you finished a sermon series.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

I did. I did. I'm by the way, I'm enjoying all these conversations we get to have uh in the middle of the week, which is great. That's great. But yes, I did. Wrapped up a short one.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

So Yeah. All from Matthew chapter six. A unique section on the Sermon on the Mount. Yeah. You've taken that out and preached on it.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

There's a theme. It's like within the sermon, there's kind of a little micro kind of uh that's a the Sermon on the Mount is actually filled with I think several sections. Sections that I kind of parsed off. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

So it's uh fun. Well, this section was on giving, praying, and fasting and uh those disciplines, those spiritual activities. Giving, praying, and fasting, not for uh self-promotion, um, but uh for your heavenly father's applause and pleasure. Uh you've now gone, taken us through the entire series. Sure. You've preached the series, the series lands on you before it lands in the congregation. Yeah. Anything that you particularly take away from the series? Any encouragement, instruction, counsel that landed on you personally?

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Yeah. Um, I think one of the things, at least for me, that I often try to do, and hopefully I can do this. Um, there are maybe some weeks or seasons where there's a lot more that's pressing into your week, but as much as I can, I try to, in my rhythm, prep a little bit in advance early in the week and then kind of let the text preach to me. Marinade in your own soul before I write it. Um so I think I mentioned in the sermon series, there's just stuff that was convicting about that, even just low-level kind of things that um I have this struggle at times, like probably many people do, where if I'm doing something good, I want to make sure that someone notices it, or like I might like and it's usually I think I think it probably manifests itself more in my house than outside, because I think there's a part of us that probably just knows like humility is a good virtuous thing, and so you don't. But yeah, I think with my wife is probably the one that would be the one that I could talk talk to most, you know, yeah, honestly about all this. Like um, she knows when I'm doing good things because I make sure I make sure to make sure she knows, you know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

But that drive, that ambition to be noticed is a part of our old nature, um our our fallen nature that uh that we're learning in Christ to to put off and to put on new. And so this is inherent with every one of us. So this falls on every one of us. This isn't foreign.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

And uh, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

And I think for me too, the one of the things that's been part of that process, I think the gospel is like virtually everything we talk about, is kind of the the antidote or the remedy to this issue because the gospel the our propensity toward wanting to be noticed or wanting to draw attention to the things that we're doing, it's it's coming from a place of you know, either the desire to s to self-justify or even out of a place of insecurity or feeling inadequate. And so we want to acquire for ourselves, you know, some sort of sense of worth in the eyes of others, esteem, all that. And I just think the gospel for me, dipping my toes back into the fact of hey, there's a there's a father who loves me, accepts me, um, embraces my frailties and insufficiencies, you know. So it's all that stuff is just part of it where um that's been really good too. You know, thinking through that.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Well, the gospel saturates all of this. The gospel is the the message of God being generous to us, which makes us a generous people, uh, a gospel which reveals to us that we need a savior, makes us dependent upon him. Prayer lines right up with that. Uh, a gospel where we're we're now hungry for more of what we've received and more of God. So yeah, good. Great. Well, this is an interesting series because again, you've taken us through Matthew 6, the the giving, praying, fasting. And um, as a church, and not just our own church, I think just as the church, big even the big C church, we're used to hearing about giving and we're used to hearing about praying. Uh, we're used to participating together in giving campaigns or giving challenges, also in prayer meetings. But this last sermon was on fasting. Yeah. And fasting isn't commonly heard, nor is it commonly practiced, particularly as a community activity. And so I'm just curious, um, and there's not a definitive answer on this, but I'm just curious uh why you and I might think that fasting is one of those forgotten disciplines or neglected disciplines. I don't know if there's an easy answer to that. Um I think it's interesting when you look at the text, these are given like one right after another. Exactly. And it's also given in the context of when you do this. Correct. And so again, prayer and giving way more common. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

You start preaching on fasting, and people are like, well, and I wanted to make that case a little bit more explicit this week. That was part of why I pressed into Matthew 9, because I think if you were to say, Oh, yeah, we ought like Christians are expected to give or they're expected to pray, pray. I think most people would go, Yeah, that makes sense. You know, I think that that's pretty intuitive, and a lot of it's based on just the practicality of how we operate in the contemporary church today. Fasting, you might have people go, Wait, we're supposed to do that? Or you could do that if you're like somebody who's really spiritually elite. Yeah, green beret. But that's that's not for everybody. It's and it's um Matthew 9 makes it pretty explicit that no, I think Jesus has an expectation that that's what his disciples will do.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

So um it is an expectation, I think, or it is uh should be a thing that Christians practice periodically. Why it's fallen out of fashion, I don't know if I could say exactly, but probably part of it's related to our culture. Um we were in a uh a culture where I think we have we have resources, we have these things. We're probably not used to um going without certain comforts. So it could be related to comfort. I think the other thing too, maybe this is helpful and I didn't unpack this in the message, but there's a there is also a sense in which I think fasting has been um maybe abused slightly in the past or used in unique ways where it's like it's almost like um like I'm trying to punish my body.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Oh type of thing.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Where you this self-flagellation, yeah, exactly. This kind of self-mortification. Yeah, self-mortification. And um, and and historically and throughout the church, and I'm I can't give you exactly a whole lot of examples of that, but just my knowledge of church history that that has been sometimes the way it was used. And so I think you have pendulum. So sometimes it goes so far that we're gonna, you know, we we have to almost atone for our own sin. Yeah. Well, that atonements happened in Christ, so we don't need to to you know crucify ourselves and and go through that self-mortification. I think that's up too far. And then the op the other end of the coin is well, then we don't need to do it at all. And it's I don't I think fasting is a place between that where it's the abstaining from it's just it's not comfortable. And it is a submission of your body, I think, over to the Lord for that temporary season of time, but I don't think it's meant to inflict, you know, um deep pain because we have to uh do atoning for anything. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

So I think that could be part of it too, just the pendulum swing.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

Yeah, it's it's just interesting to think through the topic of fasting, and it's probably far more common today among the health conscious than among the church. 100%. And so, right, wrong, good or bad, it just is you're gonna hear more about that among the dietitians and the the health conscious people of intermittent fasting. Intermittent fasting, yep, yep, all of those that conversation. So I I found it interesting. I that was interesting to me to think through these, because just as a church, giving prayer, yeah, yeah. Fasting, that's unusual. We don't normally hear that. Aaron Powell Do you have thoughts as to why it's not so prevalent today? Aaron Ross Powell, Jr. I thought a little bit in the lane of that's probably for the spiritually elite, it's probably not for all of us. That's kind of where I was going. But uh the the other reality is if it's not as common in the church, it falls on the fact that it's um it's it's falling on it's not coming from the leaders, if you will, that are communicating this. If it's if it's being lost or in that way and or not as common. It's not as commonly addressed. So it's interesting. We were talking a little bit before this, the matter of fasting uh shows up significantly in the Old Testament. Yes. Uh far more than the Old Testament than in the New, and that shouldn't surprise us because there's a lot more text given in the Old Testament than the New. Uh we talked about the fact that it's in the law but only once, connected to one of their feast days, or not a feast day, a fasting day, a day of atonement. Uh but we see in the Old Testament uh people fast. Yes. Individuals. Yeah, you have David, Esther, Ezra, Nehemiah. Uh there's there's people who are fast. There were also uh a number of calls to fast, proclamations where groups of people would fast.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

Corporate uh national.

SPEAKER_00 9:09

Yeah. Uh both in Israel and even like when uh Jonah went to Nineveh, yeah. They called as they were repenting and turning to the Lord, they they called uh proclaimed a national fast. But uh, anyways, I I I was wondering if fasting, as we think through that practice, uh should it be merely individual? Or, you know, because this is like when you fast, fast privately. Privately. Uh should it be merely individual or should there be a community discipline or a community engagement in fasting?

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Yeah, I would say that um it it should be both. That's probably my perspective. And I think a lot of it has to do with situations that would might it it doesn't seem to me at all that that and that there's ever a time, and again, I'm just kind of going off my thoughts about the Old Testament. In particular, if you have like national fasts, there's it's always there's a circumstance or situation that's prompting that. It it's for us, it's for a purpose. Yep. So you know, Nineveh, it's repenting. For a purpose for a season. It's it's being grieved over their sin and it's turning from that sin, and so it's a it's a national fast for them. And for Israel, there were times, boy, um is it Samuel who calls uh the nation of Israel to fast. Yeah, but yeah, and the whole nation's supposed to fast and and mourn their sin and the their violation of the covenant. So there are reasons that prompted that uh corporately at times, and then for individuals, David to his son, you know, we fasted when he was losing the child. And so you have situations that would uh call for that. And so I think um I think it should be individual at times. Uh we obviously Jesus obviously talked about that here in Matthew 6. Yeah, but as I talked about with the other ones, what Jesus isn't doing is he's not prohibiting the public exercising of these disciplines. Certainly, public prayer is a practice that Jesus would have engaged in. Yeah. Um and fasting is one of those things that I think the issue in Matthew six is the motivation for why you do it. You're doing it to be seen.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

So there are times where people should see your generosity. And it goes back to the Matthew 5, a city on a hill as well. You know, we do things for God's glory, yeah. And sometimes we do things corporately that some of the disciplines are things we engage in corporately, but we're always doing it for the Lord, um, to the Lord.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

And it's for his glory, and I think fasting in particular, um, if there are things that that a community is going through, uh, a faith community, yeah, or needs to consider. Um well, one example we just I was talking to you just before and it just popped in my brain, but um Acts. I'll just go there real quick. But Acts 13, right? So we talked a little bit about this uh in our launch site gatherings for those who are there with that, but you have the church in Antioch, which is this kind of um amazing church in the book of Acts, who's this hub of missionary activity. But I'll just read it. Um now they're in the church of Antioch, prophets, this is uh Acts 13, one. Um prophets and teachers, Barnabas, Simeon, who's called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manian, a lifelong friend of Herod the Tetrarch, and Saul. While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, Set apart from me Barnabas and Saul for the work which I have called them. And then after fasting and praying, they laid their hands on them and sent them off. And so that community was gathering together for worship, and fasting and prayer was part of what they were doing corporately.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

And it seems from the text that a lot of that had to do with discerning what the will of the Lord was for their church and for their community, and the spirit impressed upon them this need to send people out to go send out missionaries who began. That was the first missionary journey, began right there from Antioch and Acts 13, and it started through a church gathering to pray and fast about discerning the Lord's will. So that's a long-winded way of saying you should do both, I think, as long as the motivation is proper. And um, and so I think even as a church community, yeah, it's something that at times we might want to consider.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Yeah. This conversation makes me think that might be the reason why uh fasting isn't so common. Maybe we have so individualized that discipline. Oh, and have left the community function of that discipline that it's just not commonly falling on our ears because as a community, we're not doing that together.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

This is not, I don't think, part of your question sheet. And I wasn't thinking about this, but boy, isn't that also true of almost everything in the Western church? Yes. We have taken the disciplines, we have taken the the our faith and so divorced it from the church that my Christian faith is about me and the Lord. We've individualized so much of our Christian life. Yeah, um we're not just saved as individuals, we're saved into a body. Yeah, and we the life that we live is a a life in the body.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

And so um, while I do personally think the spiritual disciplines as an individual level should be part of my individual journey, my walk with Christ, um, it is also meant to be totally lived out in community.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

And so we I I mean every one of the disciplines from what I can see. So for example, um, I'm involved in a study, but one of the things we talk about when we invite new people to the study or people will join for the first time, we say, you know, um, reading the Bible isn't something you just do with you and the Lord.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

You should also do that in community. And so we just read the Bible and then we talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

You go, you don't go very far back in history, right? And everyone didn't have a Bible. Exactly. So Bible reading was a community event. Exactly. We now all have a Bible, which is a blessing to us. That's a real rich benefit, but there's a lot of the spiritual disciplines that were community activities, community practices. And I think you're right, in the West, in our culture, we have individualized, autonomized, all of these things, which we sometimes will even read our Bible with that individual lens on instead of the community lens.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Yeah. There's a book. Um, I can't remember the title, and I I'm being critical, so it's probably good they don't mention the title. But there's a book that came out several years ago, and I think I used it when I preached a message on the gathering, the important importance of the gathering, where I remember the opening uh to the book, it talks about, you know, here I am on a Sunday morning, curled up on my my comfortable orange couch with a coffee in my hand and my Bible, you know, connecting with just me and Jesus. And the whole premise of the book is why church is superfluous. What church where church has no I don't need to have the church to have a relationship with the Lord. And um I would strongly reject that notion that that that's a very individualized Western kind of a more American, maybe not just American, but North American kind of perspective that I think has evolved that I think we should distance ourselves from that perspective. Yeah. We need each other, and our faith is meant to be exercised not just as an yes, it is an individual salvation, but it's also a corporate thing. Yeah, brought into a family, brought into a we walk through that as a community. And so fasting, giving, prayer, Bible reading, meditation, all those things are things that are great practices to do both individually and corporately. If the motivation behind it is to make much of self, you don't do it. Don't do it that way. You know, don't do it the wrong heart.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

This is strangely making me think through this coming Sunday. We celebrate the Lord's table together.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

And celebrating the Lord's table is something that we do in community. We do we do that together. We do that as a church as we remember Jesus together and look forward to the feasting that we'll have when Jesus comes. Exactly. I mean, the whole table is to be a reminder that he's coming back and he'll celebrate with us. But it's also interesting that sometimes we can even take communion, uh, the celebration of the Lord's table, which is a community event, and even make that individual in that, you know, kind of close your head, bow your eye, self-examination, which is a part of that. Right. But there's also the other part of, hey, look around you. Oh, exactly. These are God's people. These are your people. You have now been made through faith in Jesus Christ, you've been made a member of God and you've been made a member one of another. So look around. These these are the people God has rescued unto himself.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

And I think is it first Corinthians 11 when Paul is even talking about discerning the body and the whole thing? Like I I kind of have a perspective that obviously there's a situation. Paul's corrective teaching on the Lord's table is situationally induced. Yes. There's a circumstance that was going on in the Corinthian church where you're just going to be able to be correcting. Correcting. But through that, his whole thing about that examination and stuff included discerning the others around you and how you're treating them. So even when we do our self-examination, it's not about you know examine whether you and the Lord are good right now. It's like you and the Lord and those around you. You know, the self-examination is meant to be not just vertical but horizontal.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

How are you within the community of God at this moment? So that's how are you responding to your brothers and sisters in Christ and how are they responding to you?

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Yeah, and in particular, it was because there were certain people that were just you know pigging out and getting drunk and not thinking of themselves. Thinking of themselves, very individualized. Yeah, and and Paul challenged that.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Yeah. Yeah, interesting. Well, I appreciate this conversation. I just it's it is making me think along the lines of uh fasting is an individual discipline, but it's also ought to be more of a community, uh community practice, which and that undoubtedly has affected our our views and thoughts on that. I think so. So yeah, it even makes me think through, and again, these are big generalizations, but when we preach about prayer, which you did just a couple weeks ago, uh, the general Christian response is like, yeah, I should probably be praying more. That's kind of a unique conviction that that most people have. It's we have this privilege of communicating with our Heavenly Father. Right. We should probably do more of that than we are. Uh the the matter of of giving falls on people different ways. Some people are like, Oh, the church is always you know talking about giving and always, you know, into my wallet, which you've made very clear. God doesn't need our money. Exactly. That giving is an opportunity for us to uh to discipline our souls and generosity as our heavenly father is for our sake. Yeah. But when you when you preach on fasting, and this kind of is in the conversation that we're having, you know, because of what we've talked about, and because it's not a common practice and it's not a community practice generally, you know, when you preach about fasting, how do you feel that lands on people? Have you even had any responses from Sunday? Like, you know, when this when you preach on fasting, how does that land?

SPEAKER_01 19:16

It's interesting because it's almost it was it was it is different because you like you mentioned, you have people who sometimes there's an aversion to talking about giving because the church is always after your money. And I think even we've talked about that, you know, that sometimes if we're in the past, we've maybe erred more on not hitting it enough. Yep, because we we don't want to give the impression to the world around us that that's what the church is for. Um, but we I you know I think it's important that's a part of our discipleship journey. So talking about giving is actually you should do.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Prayer, that's just it's widely embraced and it's probably talked about quite a bit, and it's such a prevalent part of scripture and it's a common practice that everybody's kind of like, oh yeah, prayer. Yep. Interestingly, I had somebody come up to me after the message, and I'm sure if more I would have talked to more, they would have said the same thing. Someone said, I don't think I've ever heard heard anybody in the church talk about fasting. It just is one of those things that we know about but we don't think about, we don't talk about, and people are largely like, oh, we're we're supposed to do that. I think it's there's a void. Yeah. For whatever reason. Um, and it's not as prominent as prayer. Right? Prayer obviously is more it's featured more heavily throughout the Bible, but but fasting is a significant topic.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

You know, it's it's not just a a minor minor subject, it's hit all throughout the Bible. So I think a lot of people were like, oh, I didn't really, I haven't really heard much about that. And it made people kind of think, and so I think my hope would be, you know, there are some people who with prayer, for example, I should be praying more. I think for the vast majority of people, I I hope that they would go, maybe I should consider yeah, fasting at some point in my my Christian walk. Yeah. And my my hope was through the message, I would give them ways to think through what would prompt that.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

Yeah, this would this would go beyond your sermon Sunday, but even some practical, pragmatic instruction on how to go about fasting.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

Because even do much of that. No, it wasn't the intent or the purpose of that message, which I understand. That's why I say it. This goes beyond. But even biblically, there were there were fasts that were just a day. It it's not like partial fasts, even though it's Daniel's, you know, but yeah, so you have Yeah, and so you don't, you know, you read about uh Jesus, you know, fasting 40 days and people like, yeah, I'm not doing that. Well, most of the biblical fast are like for a day, uh the day of atonement, or for uh a meal or for other things, uh abstaining from um you mentioned that as well, abstaining from other things. You could do a uh social media fast. Yep. And uh there's just yeah, it would be interesting to think through uh at some point a follow up of of just pragmatic instructions. Yeah, if particularly if this is falling on people and like, man, I just haven't heard of this at all.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Yeah, and I had some of those conversations and The commons after. Some people were even saying, hey, like someone asked, like, I've done a fast, like, you're there, like, how long should I do it? And you know, those are great conversations to have. And I even was able to say, like, you know, if it's if you're in good health, you know, that that's one of those things to consider. If it's, you know, if you're looking to do a significant fast, you can maybe consult a doctor. You know, some of the those just practical things. We certainly don't want uh people to have it be detrimental to their health or anything. But um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

And even even if someone listening to this podcast or listening to someone uh the sermon and realizing, like, oh, I should consider fasting as part of a spiritual discipline for uh a uh a given reason, there are resources. You've mentioned that David Mathis, you know, his book on spiritual disciplines. Um so there are resources available on this topic where you could personally, or even have a small group that says, hey, let's let's talk about this.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

And from what I remember, Mathis, his book with all those topics is also very, very practical. I do think he has some practical elements to it, I believe.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

So helpful than what you're going to give on a Sunday morning. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. So that might be something to think through. I appreciated in the message you commented on the fact that biblically speaking, and as you read through the biblical text, uh there are several reasons that we find in the text for fasting. Yeah. Uh grieving the loss of a loved one, uh, or grieving your sin, uh, repentance, uh humbling yourself, uh seeking the Lord for a specific direction. You mentioned Acts 13 already. They seem to be praying together, fasting together for a particular direction. Uh it was also you mentioned that prayer and fasting often go together like peanut butter and jelly. They just kind of in the same text. Sure. H has there ever been a time, and maybe we've already hit on this, but has there been a time when um Frank and Muth Bible Church has, you know, has for a particular day or reason or season called a corporate fast?

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Probably not in my tenure, my experience here, in a way that was um intentional, uh, in the sense of like, hey, here's what we're going to do corporately, and we're gonna put some things in place in terms of talking through the parameters of that. I'm thinking back, I think there have been times in our church's history where we have encouraged people to pray. And even, hey, you might even want to consider prayer and fasting as you do this. I know certainly our elders, uh, we periodically will have elder retreats, and a lot of the the years where we were kind of talking through vision plans, um, next steps as a church, some of those big monumental moments, because there's been some pretty cool milestone moments of moving here to Main Street, of you know, just taking some of the steps we have. Our elders have committed time intentionally to fast and pray. Yeah. So we've done that as a leadership team. But I, you know, thinking through it, I think that there certainly could be more intentionality, more clarity around that, more um thought given toward how we could do that in a better way.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

Um, in particular for our church, I think discerning, taking next steps as a church that seems to fit within a lane right now. Yeah. Um, you know, I don't I'm not aware of anything that we are corporately grieving over or corporately um repenting of as a body right now. So yeah, I think we probably could, probably not as much as we should.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

Yeah, well, and and the flip side of that is you also don't run on run into the lane of the Pharisees where like, hey, we fast twice a week because here we go. We're we're making it uh uh either a rule or a a spiritual pattern that we now become proud of. That would that would be the the danger on the other there seems to be a shooting down the middle to where this is not something we ignore. This is also something that we don't um do every week.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

If Jesus had an expectation for the rhythm of that, he would have made a case. He just said when. Yeah. And I think that that to me prompts from what I see biblically, it just seems like we're not under the old covenant, you know, that's come to its consummated then in Christ. We don't have the day of atonement that we, you know, wait and hope that everything goes well in the in the in the temple. Um so because of that, I think in Christ there are just situations that would call for it. And I think as a community, we can be open and receptive to ways that we can incorporate that into our community life together.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

Yeah. Yeah. And in Christ, and as we walk with Christ together, there would be times to fast together and there'd be times to feast together, all of that. Exactly. And there's freedom.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

And we're really good at feasting together. You know what I'm saying? We really are. Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with it. That's wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

Yes. Um should be celebrated and received as of from the Lord. And yeah, they're time to be able to do that. That's part of Ecclesiastes as well, right?

SPEAKER_01 26:32

We want to receive those gifts and enjoy them.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

Well, just uh thinking through the sermon, I'm I'm gonna mention the points that you made because they're very valuable. Uh, you mentioned the time for fasting is now.

SPEAKER_02 26:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

Um the groom is away, so the time for fasting is now. The temptation of fasting is for personal recognition, that's part of that whole series. Uh, the target for fasting is God's pleasure, not for others' esteem. Uh, the treasure of fasting is reward, God's reward. In that context, you brought up the fact that feasting increases our hunger for God. And I'm sorry, fasting, fasting increases our hunger for God. Yeah. And feasting will be the reward of eternity. Yeah. And you talked about how we won't be fasting in heaven because we'll be with the groom. Just that was great. Um, interesting to think through. Uh before you pose that question, I never thought of that before ever. But just curious how that perspective influences your view and even your participation in fasting today and what it might be in the future.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

And yeah, I think um and I've thought through, I think, that topic. I mean, I think of the idea of feasting and fasting. Like I've I've actually preached through this passage before, and so, or maybe I preached through the Matthew 9 passage, I'm not sure exactly, but um you know, I'm I'm aware of the fact that Jesus makes it pretty clear that when the groom is away, his people will fast, and when when the the groom is present, they'll they'll feast. But I think primarily I focused on when the disciples were with him. But to think through the implications of what that means is that when he returns and we're with him again, you know, I I I would say I I maybe took a little bit of a leap, but I I think it was an informed leap because the the reality is I think there'll be they'll be feasting in heaven, but I don't think it's it's uh it's not as util, it's not utilitarian anymore. It's it's pleasure, it's enjoy, it's enjoyment. And that's the that's the image that we have in scripture that it's the wedding supper of the lamb, the bride and groom are together, it's a celebratory. It's a big party. And um, and that that's a a feature that for me it's understanding like there is we live in an age right now where um again I've talked about this, but uh I believe in the already, but not yet, you know, that we we're in a time where we're awaiting the the consummation, the completion of all God's plans and purposes for the future. There is coming a day when there's a there's just uh when we're with Christ, it's unimaginable pleasures, uh unimaginable. Uh we can't fathom the level of contentment, satisfaction, fulfillment we'll have. But until that day comes, we live in a world that's still broken, that's still under a curse. And the place for fasting, I think, is very prevalent today. So it's just one of those things that we should understand that in the age we're in, that's part of what the rhythms are.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Yeah. It's also really interesting to remember that that was the complaint of the Pharisees to Jesus and his disciples, kind of like, hey, we're fasting. We're fasting twice a week. Exactly. You guys are never doing this. Right. You know, what's up with that? And so it's kind of interesting that literally in that context, he's like, people don't fast when they're with the groom. I mean, we're we're we're we're in a party here. Exactly. And it's also they're outside of that and looking in at it and complaining about it, grumbling about it.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

And the sin the sinners and tax collectors are invited to those parties, which is also interesting.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

Yeah, yeah, and joy, yeah, and the in the the kingdom of God, the kingdom of heaven, when Christ comes and we're with him, it's almost like fasting will no longer enter our mind. No, we're no longer hungry for God, we're satisfied with him.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

And I think that's part of my point too, is the if you look at the reasons that would um that would lead us to fast, those those things are null and void in the age to come. Because it's discerning the will of you, you're face to face with the Lord. You don't need to discern you get we're face to face with God. We're with him, you know, grieving. There's no more death. Um repenting. No more pain, no more sorrow, no more repenting. Though the the the reasons we fast today are removed. Yeah. And I think when you read the end of the book of Revelation, it's very clear that those things, you know, the the chaotic aspects of the world that we live in are taken away.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

Yeah. Yeah. That that's good. I've got things running through my mind, which which are. Feel free to chime in if you get thoughts on that. No, that's just good. The the all of the things that would cause us to fast are removed. Yeah. But that also tells us that today there may be things that would trigger us to think through fasting.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

And and move us into that. And so we ought to be open to that. Like the we may not plan, you know, there's there's a time and a place to plan for a fast because we're either seeking God's direction or we want to humble ourselves before God. We just want more of Him. We want to increase our hunger for Him. So there might be reasons why we choose to fast, but there may be reasons that we don't plan for that come into our life, and we would just be wise to realize like this would be a good time to not do something, whether that's eating, social media, or whatever. I'm not doing this for this period of time because I really need to seek the Lord. Yeah. Spend time with the Lord. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Well, you ended the message with a question, you know, uh, what are you hungry for? And some of that, again, when you go without meals, it creates a hunger, and that hunger you know reminds you of what you're fasting for. Uh so you that was a good question to land with. What are you hungry for? Uh, and then you highlighted several, you know, worthy hungers, a whole litany of them, and I won't cover them here. Sure. But uh personally, anything you're uh find yourself hungry for at this time of life, this season of life, anything that you're hungry for, anything that you're not hungry for that you're like, I probably should be hungry for that.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

Oh yeah. There's a well, so the the there are many things that I I I wish I was hungrier for, and I think you know, I highlighted some of those, but I think you know, personal holiness, some of those things, you're just like I we should always hunger for those things more.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

Um just being honest about that. I think there are also some things that you know, some of my deepest prayer items or longest, long-term prayer items, you know, and even some of those I probably won't even share here, but just you're like there are elements to where you're like, yeah, there's there's been moments where I've that has led me to a place of pursuing def uh a fast and a prayer over certain things, just because it's um I think that those deeper longings, those deeper hungers are uh uh a great way to consider a fast, you know, for certain things. So that's that's happened. It's also interesting. I didn't mention this and I I'm it might the podcast, I guess, is the time to do it. I never really fasted until probably I was probably already already the lead pastor here.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

The first time I probably ever fasted for a spiritual purpose. Yeah, if I'm being honest. Yeah, okay. And um the journey toward that was interesting because it was kind of funny. Um, my wife was we were having children, and one of the the the features of having children is you you have my wife was pregnant multiple times, and so when you're pregnant, you have you're feeding more. I I was one of those quintessential, hey, let me be a good support of my wife, and sure, let's let's go for the ice cream. Let's do at least it's actually kind of funny, but like there was a period in my life where having multiple kids where um I one of the things that led me to to try to fast actually started off with like, oh, I think I'm I'm I'm putting on more than I should. But the thing about that that was interesting for me that became a spiritual focus was I w I realized there was a phase of my life where I was I was turning to food at times for comfort.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

Oh making food a unique idol in a weird way. Exactly. Think of it that way.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

But it's but the funny thing about that is it almost prompted me like, hey, I I probably like stress stress or whatever. I probably don't need to do that. And it almost it was the my kind of my kickstart of like, hey, I should consider not making some of those things more of a you know, my source of comfort can be the Lord. It can be it can be other th other things. I don't need to and that then uh thrust me into exp experiencing a fast for the first time. Like, hey, I want to think through not making that an idolatrous thing. But then that led then to a place where my experience with that discipline led me to other avenues where there are times where okay, hey, you know, I want to pray for this situation in my family, or I want to pray for this situation in the life of the church. So fasting then became a spiritual discipline that I started engaging with a little more regularly.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

Um I still probably could pursue it more at times. Um, but for me, that was really helpful. And as somebody who wants to even grow my prayer life, fasting has been a blessing in that way. Because if there are times that I intentionally want to commit something to prayer, fasting is just a bodily way of enhancing those prayers. As as Piper says, it's it's an intensifier.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

Um and then the other factor too, I'll just throw out there because I've not done I didn't do it in the message, but the reality also is there are times where abstaining from food for a period of time can, if you're ornery, hangry, people say or whatever, sure. Might be a good time to stop the fast. There have been times where my wife is like, hey, I think you should break your fast. Yeah. Makes me think of the funny commercial.

SPEAKER_00 35:58

Here's a snicker bar.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Exactly. And the funny thing is in those moments I'm like, um, oh yeah, you're right. You know, we when it when it ceases to accomplish your intended goal, you know, yeah, might be time to pivot.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

But yeah, I uh like you, I don't I don't know if I fasted as any type of practice in my own life before being in the pastoral ministry. Yeah, it's a good thing. Again, I can't think back to uh but I I remember post a sermon on um fasting, and uh that particular sermon was connected to fasting to create a hunger for the return of Jesus and to be hungry for that and uh um to skip the wedding banquet because the wedding banquet's yet coming and we're we're longing for that, and uh established a brief rhythm for a brief period of time where we made a fifth Friday fast. So four times a year there's a fifth Friday, and we made the Fifth Friday a fast for just reorientating your heart to the return of Jesus Christ and a hunger for that. That's great. And we did that for a season, but it's now in the rear mirror a good ways. It's that that is not a regular practice in my life. So the the message was a great reminder of that personally. Like there was a season in my own life where four times a year I would fast, particularly just to remember that Christ is coming back and I want to be hungry for that.

SPEAKER_01 37:14

And that's such a natural connection to what I think Jesus is talking about there, too. I think that's a great, you know, fasting for the return of Christ. I think I mentioned that in the message as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:23

Yes, you did.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

That's a that should be something that we, you know, yeah, long for.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

Right. Yep. And so this sermon was was uh helpful and good and instructive and convicting to me. Kind of like, oh, this is this is just something that haven't thought about. And if it wasn't brought up, it probably wouldn't be thought about. So it's it's good to think through this uh even on a personal level. And then, you know, what I'm you know, what are you hungry for? Just um, and this is true of all believers, but kind of that hungry, kind of the John the Baptist, you know, for more of Jesus, less of me. Uh he must increase, I must decrease. And more of just the character of Christ being produced in me. Um the more you walk with the Lord, the more you realize, boy, I've just got a long, a long way still to go, development to press into, the character of Christ to be produced in me. Yeah. And uh so hungry for that. But good. This is a great series. I I appreciate you doing it, picking up on it. And uh it came in three quick weeks. And uh one quick. This coming Sunday we kick off a brand new series of messages. Yes, another not real long, five five Sundays, five weeks, looking at parables of Jesus Christ, uh parables that are short stories that have a significant impact for the audience that's listening. So that that begins Sunday. Begin with Luke 15. So looking forward to that. Yep. So that's that's what's coming. Uh Sunday, by way of announcements here, you uh you did some promotion for Kids Men Summer Kids Men Help. Uh I've heard we've had a good response to that. You were looking for eight people.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

Yeah, we were close to it. I think we might circle back around the Sunday. I talked with our our team a little bit with uh the announcement moment where like we were almost at that goal. Yeah. So if there are people who you know didn't have a chance to respond but were thinking through it, it'd be great to have people pop in. But for those who are listening here and who said, you know what, I'll put my name on the hat or on the on the sheet and I'll throw my name in the hat to help out for the summer. Um, just thank you. That's awesome. That's uh what a great way to bless the people who serve regularly. And for the people who are listening who serve every week.

SPEAKER_02 39:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

We hope that you have a wonderful summer and enjoy a little bit of a breather. Right. Um, but they're a blessing to our church.

SPEAKER_00 39:24

Absolutely. That that ministry has a large number of volunteers, I think 100 plus, 120 uh regular volunteers to have uh an influx of 80 people who come in in the summer and say, Hey, I can help out. Uh, you need not be afraid of that because the key leaders are in place, and so you're largely coming in and just supporting and bringing along a roll to give people a little bit of a pause. Right. So it's a huge help. I appreciate the response of that already. So yeah. And then uh three more Sundays at the Grove. We do, yes.

SPEAKER_01 39:51

So we are continuing to have our services there. We're looking to work on some things and tweak some things. I won't give too much you know, detailed. But we want to improve the experience, yeah. So the the message for those who've been there has been on video. Our hope is to enhance that and do better at that uh for now as we have uh those services there. And so obviously, we also have people who've been part of our launch site gatherings, and so there's you know elements to that. I'll even throw out we we put out um uh opportunities for them to to kind of engage even further with some homework. And so if there's feedback they can provide, that'd be wonderful for us. But yeah, that's been going good. And and then we you know the summer is quickly coming upon us. So that's gonna be unique.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

So May 3rd, 10th, 17th, three services at the Grove. Obviously, all you know, those Sundays, we have services here, but again, at the Grove, the message that's preached here is the message that will be preached there. And so when we kick off a sermon series this week on the parables of Jesus, those sermons will be at the Grove.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

So they're not gonna miss out on that if they go to the Grove. And then on Memorial Day weekend and throughout the duration of the summer, we're not going to have those services there at uh during the summer. So just you know, we got three more weeks to do it. Yeah. So if people want to connect, and that's a helpful way uh for us to make us also to make space during a pretty pretty busy season at the church for for new families, new guests uh to come, people who came to Easter and want to check us, check us out. It's a great way to make space for them too.

SPEAKER_00 41:17

Yeah. So well, this has been good, it's been profitable. I appreciate the conversations as well. Always. We've talked about fasting. We probably should break here and go get lunch together. Yeah, what are we getting for lunch? Exactly. I was thinking the same thing. Oh, it's fun.

SPEAKER_01 41:29

So well, awesome. Well, hey, I appreciate everybody for tuning in as well. Uh, as always, we appreciate when people listen in and connect with us. And it's great spending a little time throughout the week with you to talk more about the message. We hope that you guys join us next week as we continue this. Thanks so much.