After The Amen

After The Amen - Ep. 30: "The Rich Fool"

• Jordan • Season 1 • Episode 30

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 55:46

Welcome to “After The Amen” 🙏 
The goal of this podcast is to revisit the message from the previous Sunday in order to unpack the passage even further, ask key questions, and discover how faith can practically move from Sunday morning into every day of the week.


Linked Sunday - May 17, 2026

SPEAKER_00

Hey everybody and welcome to After the Amen. This is our podcast segment here at Frankenmouth Bible Church where we take the content from Sunday morning sermon and we unpack it later in the week. And once again I'm joined by Pastor Mark. How you doing? Good. Real good. Good to see you again. I'm good to see you. We've been on this rhythm for a while, me and you. And I've enjoyed our conversations and we're back at it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

We've had a little bit of a conversation before this conversation.

SPEAKER_00

We did. We're not going to talk about that conversation.

SPEAKER_01

We'll see how much Lewis uh edits our uh our work here. So yeah, good to be good to be here. That's good.

SPEAKER_00

It's good to be here. Um so you're in a parable series. I am in a parable series.

SPEAKER_01

We're more than halfway through, which is remarkable.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

We've covered three weeks of five parables in total.

SPEAKER_00

You know, the short sermon series are always interesting because you feel like once you start to get into rhythm, it's over. No. I don't know if that makes sense. But like I think it's good. It stays fresh and people enjoy some of those short series. But Ecclesiastes, you really settled in. Yeah, you were there for the ride for a while. It was great. And then I preached after that, and then you jumped in.

SPEAKER_01

Anyways, but Yeah, the parables are also unique in that every week as well as a different um a different message, different landing spot, uh, different point coming from the parable.

SPEAKER_00

Big standalone value too, which is nice um during the season. But yeah, it's been fun. I really enjoy the series so far.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, another really good series. Let's just kind of walk through where we've been because it's it's not been that far back. Um, we're in week three. Uh, first parable was on the lost and found, and we talked about the found sheep and the found coin and the found son and the son that remains lost. Uh, just learned again or was reminded of the fact of God's unconditional love for those who are repentant, and God's kind pursuit of those who are not repentant. And uh second week we looked at uh the Good Samaritan and uh reminded again Jesus answers the question, Who is my neighbor? Uh we learned how Jesus extended our view of who our neighbor is and how we should respond and be a neighbor. Yep. And then this past Sunday, which we're going to talk about today, uh, was the parable of the rich fool and uh learned about the subtle dangers of covetousness and then the freedom and joy of just treasuring Jesus and life that's found in him. So living in relationship with him. So I'd like to begin the conversation just talking about where you landed last Sunday.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

At the very end of the message, you landed the Sunday message by saying, you know, Jesus is life's greatest treasure.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So pursue him. Um I'm I I'd love to just talk about that a little bit. How do we practically treasure Jesus? Yeah. How do we practically pursue Jesus? Uh what does that look like in your life? Um, how how do you increase your affections for him?

SPEAKER_00

So a little conversation picking up literally where you left off. Sure. No, that's great.

SPEAKER_01

Um, and I think it's a um it's a simple question, but it's not always maybe the easiest to answer because it's a little bit why I wanted to press back into it because it's a great landing place for the message, particularly as we're we'll we'll talk more about the message as we have this conversation here, but it it it's where you landed. And I'm like, oh yeah, we all resonate with that instantly, but let's get practical.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and that's the point of the podcast, right? As we get to flesh these things out a little bit. Yeah, as I think about that question, you know, how do we treasure Jesus? I think one of the things I would start by saying is the the beauty of what it means to be a follower of of Christ is that we're we're part of a relationship with God. You know, we enter into this covenant relationship with Him. And as we heard about in our previous series, um, where we talked about um some of the disciplines a little bit in the Secret Service series, part of that relationship includes the opportunity to to engage in in things that develop that relationship. You know, so the disciplines are are ways that we practice, live out our faith. And so um, in particular, you know, when we think about the relationship that we have with Christ, we actually get to have fellowship with Christ. We get to um know him, we get to hear his voice, we get to communicate with him. And I think part of um thinking through treasuring Christ, it's like hey, we're we're constantly growing in our knowledge of who he is, what he's done, what he desires for our life, his love for us, his character, his promises, his nature. And as we engage in that relationship and as we learn and grow, I think that our affections for Christ, our our delight in him, um should develop and grow. That's part of just what it means to be in that that relationship. I I guess I would even almost compare it to so my marriage, for example, I'm in a relationship with my wife. I'm learning what it's like to be in relationship with her. Still, still after how many years? Yeah, after many 17 years. Yeah. So still learning, still growing. But part of that, now again, I realize that not everybody is in a situation that maybe the the there are some marriage relationships that have been really challenging. We've had our fair share of challenges, but by and large, I would say that my experience today, yeah, my my marriage today is far better than it was 10 years ago. And part of it was just the relationship has developed, it's matured. Yeah, it's grown. And so as I get to know my wife and I get to grow in that relationship with her, my love for her deepens, uh, my understanding of her broadens. And uh she she is far more precious to me, honestly, honestly, even today than she was in the past because I've the relationship is developed and fostered. Um, in our relationship with God, he doesn't need to develop at anything. He's already fully developed.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we're developing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, he doesn't developing us. Yep, he doesn't need to learn uh more about my character and he already knows it fully. But as I grow in my relationship and walk with him, I grow to know who he is, understand him better, and um the more I engage with him in that relationship, I think the more my affections for him and my uh treasuring him develops over time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So that's my interesting to press back into the kind of the marriage illustration because that's it's one of the biblical metaphors. Sure. There's lots of biblical metaphors that uh speak to our relationship with God. And one of them is the we are the bride of Christ.

SPEAKER_02

Correct.

SPEAKER_01

And so pressing into that particular illustration, it's interesting because our bride came and or not a bride, our groom came. Christ has come, our savior has come, our Lord has come, and uh he's pictured in the relationship as the groom, and uh he came and secured the bride price, you know, secured removed the barriers for the relationship in his work, in his sacrifice and service. But he's gone away. Yeah, so it gets into that fasting we talked about a few weeks ago because we fast because we're no longer with the groom, but he's coming again. So it's unique in that that's kind of why, you know, how do we practically treasure Jesus, pursue Jesus? He he came, he's coming again. We're living in that interim time. So, in a sense, we're living in the last days. He's risen from the dead, ascended to uh the heavens, and it is coming again. So it's kind of unique to think about um treasuring him, pursuing him when he's not here. But he has given us his word. Letters, letter, a letter from him. Yeah. He has given us a deposit by way of his spirit, the spirit is within us. Right. And uh so um we're not left orphaned to use another illustration. Exactly. So the relationship is real, the relationship exists, uh, but it's not what it will be and it's not what it was. That's the the space and time in which we live. And so learning to treasure him and uh pursue him today uh while we're waiting for his return.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

That's where we find ourselves.

SPEAKER_00

You know what's interesting is just off the cuff, just I'm thinking as you're sharing that, but um I've been on trips, mission trips before. I mean, I've not since I've been married, I've not spent large amounts of time away from my wife. But you know, that absence makes the heart grow fonder, kind of thing. There's some truth to that because it's like my my the moments where I think I recognize sometimes that I I'm I really treasure my wife is when I'm when she's not readily available to me right there, you know. And I think uh maybe there's something there just with the whole idea of we we long for and await the return of the groom and our our experience with him forever. Um but there's that absence which kind of makes that heart grow fonder as well. We long for Christ to come. We long for Christ to come. We do, we really do. Um and so that's a helpful even that way to think through even kind of treasuring him. It's it's that uh that craving, that yearning for him to to come and fulfill all his promises and make all things right, which hopefully will also stir our affections, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah, is there you've already started to hit on a little bit of it. Are there things that increase your uh and affections for him? Yeah, things that increase your treasuring. I I've been told what you treat as precious becomes precious to you. Oh, yes. And that's kind of interesting when you think about that because people treasure particular things. If we move it out of the out of the realm of our Christianity, people treasure a particular pet or treasure a particular object, and what they treat as precious literally becomes precious to them. Exactly. And they literally disciple their souls for for that type of uh so is that true even in you know what what increases your affections for Jesus in the immediate and and causes you to pursue him more?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, I I would say um so so going back to that illustration about the the maturing and developing, there is a there is a it's interesting because I'm I'm kinda I'm in my forties. I'm in that place in life where I'm I'm young enough where I still feel like I have a lot of life in me and my ability to to do some things, but I'm also old enough where I've I'm in my fifties, I feel the same.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, yeah, yeah right, right. That's wonderful. Good to know.

SPEAKER_00

But um But uh I'm I've experienced enough life also to know that many of the things that I have treasured falsely in the past are really hollow.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know if that makes sense, but you you set your affections to something that really doesn't deserve your affections.

SPEAKER_00

As I mentioned too part of that thing with with the treasuring Christ, you know, part of my emphasis at the end of that message is it's not that we just have to seek uh pursuing treasure or or or longing for treasure, it's just that we've misplaced what that treasure is. Because I just think we are we are made to be worshippers and lovers. That's just what we are. And so um it's to it's to steer the direction of our life toward the one who is worthy of all our worship, all our praise, all our you know, greatest affections. So for me, I've experienced enough life uh that I know I know that there are many things that I've pursued that have not satisfied. And so part of that is just my maturity and my growth in my relationship with Christ that I'm I'm I'm just learning to appreciate him more through my experiences of life. I also just am profoundly uh reminded in very, very a host of different ways how blessed I am, you know, and how much um how much he has just lavished on me something that's undeserved. You know, I don't I don't deserve anything I have, and ultimately his love for me, his kindness is something that uh I've experienced, I've tasted, and um it's made me just appreciate and treasure him more, you know, through life. So it's a growing learning experience for me.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know if you have thoughts on that, but well, no, I also thinking along the lines of, you know, we just we've talked about the fact that, you know, you landed the message on treasuring Jesus and pursuing Jesus, and and we generally understand that I I appreciate the conversation to press into that a little more. How do you how do you go about treasuring Jesus and pursuing him? Uh, one of the metaphors that we've hit on here in this part of the conversation is the fact that we've been uh brought into a a union with Jesus Christ where we are pictured as his bride, he is the groom, and so uh we're longing for the relationship to be consummated in his return, and we're living in that time and looking forward to that. And and um while he's away, we still grow in our knowledge of him by the words he's left us and the spirit that he's put within us. Uh another metaphor that is commonly used in the New Testament as it relates to the relationship and the vital union is the body of Christ. We've been placed in the body of Christ. And I'm I'm also cognizant of the fact that um treasuring Jesus and pursuing Jesus is also a community project.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

It's something that we do together. And so, how does the body of Christ influence our treasuring Jesus and our pursuing Jesus? What you know, how does that play into that?

SPEAKER_00

That is a great, great question. Well, absolutely. I think I think part of what it means to um pursue Christ, treasure Christ together. It's it's uh it's something that others encourage us in that, that we encourage others that we participate in uh together. And I think it's just fabric.

SPEAKER_01

Some of it happens um on its own, some of it just happens as we gather, as we see and hear what God has done in the lives of other people, not only our own life, but what God is doing and has done in the lives of other people.

SPEAKER_00

Well, and you have probably experienced this before. I think um I don't want to say in a legalistic way, in terms of you know, church attendance, and you know, I think sometimes you can you can make those things something that there weren't intended to be. Sure. Um but I have experienced numerous times throughout my life people's detachment, disassociation from from the local church and an increasing, you know, maybe maybe it's very, very sporadic attendance, or maybe even kind of just drifting away.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And um I think there's a correlation between that and people who are pursuing things regularly in their life that treasuring things that aren't Christ. And I just think um I need the body. Yeah, I need each other, you know, I need we need one another. And uh I've I've been saved into a relationship with God, but I've been saved into a body, as you mentioned. And I think that we as we uh engage in life with the body, we pursue him together, and we yeah, that's it's fostered and deepened as we as we do that. Um that's great.

SPEAKER_01

We don't live into that Christian life in isolation, we don't live in the Christian life alone. And so part of treasuring Jesus and and being pleasured by him and and pursuing him, uh, it is a community project. So we get together. So we thank God for the gift of the fact that we're not alone. Not not only are we joined to him, we're joined to one another.

SPEAKER_00

Well, and I think the thing too is what what a blessing the body is because not only are we encouraging one another, but I think we're we the body love can lovingly challenge one another too when there are moments where people's directions are going, you know, affectionate.

SPEAKER_01

Even if they're affection's cool.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, absolutely. And and fostering, you know, I'm I'm in a community group, and one of the things my community group does, my the guys in my community group lately, and this is not I didn't initiate this, but we we engage and we read from the Bible every day and then we engage in conversation, just one little thing about what stood out to you from the text or whatever, and it's like that's an accountability for me that I have other brothers in Christ who are part of my community group who are helping me foster that ongoing relationship with Christ where I'm engaging in his word and hearing his voice. Right. It's just wonderful, you know, to be able to have that spiritual family who who we're all learning and growing in that relationship together, which is great.

SPEAKER_01

Well, here we just recently hosted a men's night, men's testimony night. We had a meal and and uh three men shared their testimony, and it's just um inspiring, encouraging, edifying, all of those things when you go and you sit in you sit and listen to people share their story of what Christ has done in their life and what Christ is currently doing in their life. It's just um you realize, oh yeah, there we're I'm not alone in this, and and that's it's just incredible. There's a women's testimony night being scheduled, I think, in in June, and so they'll have that same type of experience. So that's awesome. Yeah, really good. Well, hey, we've we've picked up the conversation where you landed the message. Let's let's press into the parable a little bit. Again, the parable was the parable of the rich fool. Uh, this parable in particular brings up the uh matter of wealth and possessions and uh the whole matter of covetousness and being rich toward God. Uh but in the message, you talked about the fact that wealth and money is a blessing, it's a good thing, it's not a bad thing. So money is not evil, uh, and that we were made, as people made in God's image, we are made to do work and be productive and be wise with our resources. Yeah. Um, so what is it, what does it look like for someone to pursue, you know, hard work, set goals, set financial goals, and and pursue that level of success without letting those things become the ultimate end?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So I think about, you know, many people within our church are in some uh they're they're employed or they even own a business. You don't start a business to be like, well, I want to be mediocre here. I really don't hope to make any profit. No, yeah. So what does it look like for someone to uh go to work, be productive, set financial goals, and pursue those financial goals without those thumb, those things becoming necessarily ultimate.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. It's hard for me not to drift into Ecclesiastes with something like that. Because it's so current, we just went through it, but I get I think Ecclesiastes did such a great job, the preacher did, about talking about the gifts that God gives. And um, he he gives gifts work itself, as we talked about, is a gift. Yep. Um the fruit of our fruits of our labor is a gift given from the Lord, meant to be enjoyed. But again, part of the thing about keeping things we wanna we wanna understand it rightly for what it is and not make it more than it was meant to be. And I think that we talked about that a lot in that series is that sometimes we take things and we assign more weight to it than it should be. Um the things that we have, we have them for our season, but that we're not gonna have them forever. As it as I mentioned in the message, we're stewards. Yeah. And so part of it just means we we understand them rightly for what they are, and we give them the the um significance that they should, and we understand that everything comes from the Lord and ultimately it's you know our lives, the things we have, they belong to Him. Uh, and we have an opportunity then to hold on to those things a little more loosely and use them in ways that bless those around us and impact, you know, for the sake of the kingdom. And so I think a big part of it is just um, yeah, I mean, unfortunately, it's uh there's a misconception that money is evil. It just isn't.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It's a it's a it's a blessing, it's great, you know.

SPEAKER_01

I don't think we planned it this way, but as I'm as we're having this conversation, I'm thinking through this particular message, and we're right uh in our calendar time of the year. Uh kids are graduating from high school. Sure. And so you've got a bunch of kids graduating from high school. Uh many of them are heading off into uh college or university or maybe even the military or trade schools, and they're they're making decisions as it relates to career path.

SPEAKER_02

Sure.

SPEAKER_01

And there's everything in that decision is like, you know, what have I been made to do? What do I enjoy doing? You know, what do I want to give my life toward? But then connected to that is the whole matter of uh varying degrees of what varying paths that you pursue have different economic benefits or rewards to that. Sure. And so uh I hadn't thought about that. We didn't plan this at this time of year, but you've got you know graduates and they're uh if they are gonna go be a uh a dentist or a carpenter or a you know a school teacher or a social worker, uh those are all career paths connected to giftings and talents and interests, but also connected to economics.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

And um how how I have I'm thinking out loud here, how does that impact their decision making? You know, how you you know what I mean? Because you could you could pursue the wrong path just because you have overvalued money.

SPEAKER_00

Sure. Yeah, that's a tricky question. Yeah, yeah. Because I it's uh it's a nuance a little bit. Because what I would say is there may be some people who go, I want a career, like who uh how do I who want to pursue a career that has maximum financial benefit? Yeah, and I don't think that's inherently wrong. But if the pursuit of that is because the thought is that the the the financial benefit will fulfill or satisfy, you know, you know, I think that that's the danger a little bit. And so there are some people who are like, you know, I don't really want to do, but I know this career path makes a lot of money, and and I I think I could do it. If they were like asking me my thoughts, I would say, well, hey, if you feel like you could do it and you feel like it's something that you would be good at, and you know, do it, you know, unto the Lord. Yeah, sure. Uh do it the best you can. And uh if you make a bunch of money, Lord bless you, that's awesome. Yeah. And then I think the other encouragement I would say is then what are you gonna do with those resources you have? That's yeah, Lord willing, you're gonna use them in ways that benefit the kingdom and benefit neighbor, and you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01

And it's just like um probably the big yeah, probably the biggest thing is just having the right view as it relates to money, um, because money is not evil, yep. And uh, and also to press into the ecclesiastes, you know, you may pursue something and not be successful at it. Yeah. And you may not pursue something and be successful at something that you didn't pursue. And exactly. So there's a bit there's a bit of that mystery to it as well. God, God gives these things as gifts. And uh but having the right mindset as it relates to money and how that is um how you think about it, how you utilize it, how you build to bless others, um, I would be a an important part of that conversation.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. But and I think the thing I would say about money is that money um there are warnings in the Bible about wealth, yeah, because I think it can be oh uh uh alluring, you know, it can be it can be a temptation for people. And so it's also maybe important to be aware of that component to it, you know, depending on someone's wiring, heart, all those things. But um, yeah, uh money is uh uh a wonderful blessing. It just is. I don't think there's anything that we need to we we shouldn't be critical of those who make good money. But that's a blessing. It's great.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, here in um in Luke twelve, where we our our text, the parable of the rich fool, Jesus ends that by being rich toward God. Absolutely. Being rich toward God. Paul, when he writes to Timothy, who's pastoring a church in Ephesus, and there's people within that church that were wealthy.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And he said he instructs them to not set their hope on wealth, but he also encourages them to be rich in good deeds. Yes. And the the financial wealth enables them to be rich toward God, but also rich toward good deed in good deeds. And yeah. So yeah, interesting. That's great. Yeah, just thinking these things through because they get real real practical. And I I I'm not sure we always uh develop the right mindset toward money within the church.

SPEAKER_00

Right. And I think part of what I went, and again, this is you might have, I don't know if you have questions uh uh related to this, but part of what we see in particular with the rich fool is it is a everything is like I think I mentioned in the message, is bending inward. It's just the whole posture of his mind and heart. It's about how his resources can secure something for himself. Where I think the idea of being rich toward God would be would be contrary to that. It's like how can we use our resources to to be a great neighbor and to honor God in phenomenal ways, you know? And I think um it, it's it's it's the self-seeking, self-serving approach, obviously, is is where the problem with money comes comes into play, you know. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Interesting. I think this year I'd like to uh uh gra I like reading biographies, you know that, and I'll read a few bi biographies a year. I think I'd like to grab a biography on on Milton Hershey. Oh of Hershey Chocolate fame. Um he was an entrepreneur, failed at a couple entrepreneurs, failed at a couple of business opportunities, and then uh became a very wealthy man through Hershey's Chocolate.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_01

But he's an interesting character in that he used his wealth and developed a school for underprivileged or orphaned boys, and that school is still operational, developed a hospital, developed a community for people. So he used his resources to significantly bless an entire community. Yeah. And uh I'd like to read his biography just to learn more about that. I know his mom had a strong Christian faith. That's cool. Yeah. That's really cool. Building wealth to bless others. Sure. He's a I he's at least a good illustration of building wealth to bless others. Yep. And uh so many. Awesome. Uh uh another question as it relates to this same topic is how do we know if we've crossed over from having money and possessions? Having money and possessions is not evil, but how do we know if we've crossed over from having money and possessions into loving money and possessions? How do we know where we've when we've crossed that line? Yeah. Uh in other words, how do you have things and enjoy them without setting your heart on them? And how do you discern if you know it's become more than what it should be?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's a really good question again. And some of these questions are tricky because it's like, I wish I could give you like a here's the definitive, yeah, clear-cut answer. I think a big part of it is the things that we you know, Jesus says where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. If uh if you're if you are consumed in terms of your thought process, your life, if it is if it all revolves around something, that's usually the things that we treasure. You know, and I think um uh part of part of when it comes to wealth and money, those things, again, with the working hard and all that's great. But if if it becomes all consuming and it's a thing that we that we spend all our time thinking about, all our time focusing on, it is the thing that we're aiming to achieve more of. Um greed itself is really interesting because again, it's an insatiable thing. Um what a fame, what did they say famously? Is it uh Rockefeller or whatever, when they said, you know, how much more just one more dollar? Yeah, exactly. Right. Some yeah, one of the reporters said, you know, what is enough enough? And he said, just you know, just a little more, whatever. I think that that's maybe one of the things, the indicators is that when that just is an all-consuming component.

SPEAKER_01

The interesting thing about this part of the conversation, I hadn't thought of it prior to now, is wealth sometimes isn't a problem for the wealthy. Their heart isn't set on it, their life isn't built on it, they're just they're they're they're wealthy, but they're they're generous and they're rich toward God and rich in good deeds, and it's not consuming them. Their wealth is not consuming them. Some where I was going to that is sometimes wealth can be a problem for those who don't have it. And they can be more consumed with the fact that they don't have it, that that does that make sense. Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah, they they literally obsess spend tons of time on resources they don't have and critical of those who do have them for strange reasons. But does that make sense? So I think so for sure. Yeah. So the problem with wealth might be more of a problem. This is a broad generalization for those who don't have it than those who do. Yeah. Yeah, and not not not strictly so, not no straight lines there.

SPEAKER_00

I'm tracking with, yeah. Yeah, I think that that certainly could be. I think the the love of money is not discriminant. You know, I I think it's it's a generic.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah, because you referenced the the Rockefeller if you if it was Rockefeller, I don't remember if it was, but how much more do you need? One more dollar, you know, and so he's might be consumed by it, but it also could be consuming to the person who's always disappointed at their level of resources that God has given them to steward. Yep.

SPEAKER_00

So no, that's great. Yeah, I I I agree.

SPEAKER_01

This uh the message also brought up in mind the uh John Wesley, this goes back to the 1700s, John Wesley, founder of uh the Methodist Church, yeah. Um he had a theology on money, and um it was simple. It was make as much as you can, save as much as you can, give away as much as you can. Now that's an interesting trifecta, interesting little, you know, make as much as you can, save as much as you can, give away as much as you can. Uh is that a workable paradigm? Is it a biblical paradigm? Is it you know, does that does that have merit anything?

SPEAKER_00

I think it's pretty solid. I don't know. What I would say is I don't there are many things I don't necessarily align with with Wesley. Oh, sure. Um well like anybody, but there's same with his brother.

SPEAKER_01

Charles Wesley and John Wesley had their disagreements.

SPEAKER_00

They had their disagreements, yes.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I would say any brother might.

SPEAKER_00

I wouldn't want his marriage, you know, things like that, right? So there are things about uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I think um, and but there are also many things about Wesley I do like. But that is I think pretty solid. I think that that lands pretty well in terms of what we see in scripture. I mentioned that like part of the creation mandate is that we should be productive people who are engaged in work, you know. Um uh work is something that's good, it's something that we should give our ourselves toward. And so uh working hard is a virtuous thing in the Bible. It's commended we should do that. Yeah, even saving, you know, we this is lots of sometimes. You could take this parable and you could take it to the wrong application. And the the application is not don't invest, because at the end you can't you can't take it with you. I would I would strongly advise someone. Inheritance is a blessing to the children and for sure and even just you know if you got a Roth IRA, whatever it is, like that's a good thing. There's nothing wrong with that. You should have you should be wise. We we should be stewards of these resources. That's part of it too. It's like a a good steward cares for those resources. Um but the yeah, the and to add to that, then the generosity piece, clearly. Obviously, the Bible commends that. But I I would I would agree with that, that we should we should work real hard, make a bunch of money, be wise with it, give, give it away. Yeah. All that is just, I think, a really great idea.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, when I think through that particular paradigm, uh Wesley's paradigm of money, you the the genera, and you've already hit on this, but the generosity portion and the saving wise stewardship portion, both of those get probably highlighted more within the context of the church. You know, be wise with your resources and and and also be generous with your resources. But the fact that, and this goes into what you were saying earlier, someone who is um capable and able to make money is often not appreciated within the context of the church. There are people within the context of the church who just have the ability cognitively, capacity-wise, they just for whatever reason know how to make money. Yeah. And they're not uh applauded or appreciated. And and for that part of Wesley's, you know, the doesn't often fit. You know, and you were saying it earlier. Go make as much as you can, exactly. Be as productive as you can be. Uh God's the one who provides the resources, whatever that might be. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And uh, yeah, we're made to give ourselves toward work, and that work is a wonderful thing, and it's meant to be enjoyed for what it is, as I mentioned too. And I think even the there's a part of me that resonates with uh entrepreneurial kind of um uh yeah spirit. There's something kind of cool with that, and I think that creativity, that sh shrewd, ingenuity, there's all shabbiness, kind of uh strategic. That's that's uh that's that's something that we are beneficiaries of because it's it's part of who God is himself. God is a creative God who um yeah, and I so I think that that's a wonderful blessing and uh a pretty cool thing to to see, especially if it's used for the sake of the kingdom. You know, it's like man, how how awesome is it to just give yourself toward those things and then have those resources to bless others and the king? I mean, it's just awesome. Yeah. So I think it's really cool.

SPEAKER_01

Good.

SPEAKER_00

It's great.

SPEAKER_01

Um back into the parable. Yep. This all we probably could have just read the parable, it's pretty short, but you did cover it on Sunday morning. Yep. Uh the the context is this the man in the crowd, Jesus is speaking, Jesus is teaching, and a man in the crowd comes to Jesus, and uh, you know, he wants Jesus to mediate between himself and a brother. Uh apparently there has been a father who's passed away, there's an inheritance that's been given, and this this man in the crowd wants Jesus to mediate the situation because he doesn't feel like he's getting the portion of the inheritance that he's due. Whatever that is. The amounts and the prescription isn't there in the text. So he wanted some portion of his father's inheritance, felt like his brother was being unfair, calls Jesus to mediate in the situation. Um it's really interesting. Inheritances, we have noticed and we've seen in our own lifetime, inheritances can make a mess of a family. Oh my goodness. Absolutely. So there's a there's a family situation here, and it's related to uh an inheritance. Um, we've also been pastorally brought often into situations where you're like, I don't have any dog in this fight, I don't have any part of this. I'm not part of the problem, not part of the solution. Which is interesting too. But that that can get us down on a different wildness uh rabbit trail. Yes. But in this, you know, this man wants Jesus to mediate the problem between him and his brother as it relates to the inheritance. Jesus refuses to mediate that um or to mediate that conflict, and then he immediately goes in and guards the the crowd, including this man, against covetousness, but sets up that teachable moment. Right. And made me think do you think that we sometimes go to God, even in prayer, and request that God do something that's not a primary concern for us?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I should I think all the time. I'm sure we do. Sure.

SPEAKER_01

Well, yeah, and I think I also want to like like this is a really big deal for us, and we make the request of God, and God's like, I'm not that's not a thing at all, right now. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00

So a couple things I'd say about that. One, uh, again, we're in a relationship with God. You know, uh we're not gonna probably cover these parables, but you know, you have you have parables of the unjust judge and the woman who pleads before him, and Jesus tells that parable to teach you to always pray and not lose heart, for example. Um we're in a relationship with him and he encourages us to pursue him and ask and make our request known to him. Yeah. There are times where it might be a really important thing to us, and it might be from our sphere of what we understand, a valid prayer request. That again, God is just He's This isn't primary, it's not the reality is you can make it, you can pray and he can say no. He can say yes, he could say no, he could say wait, right? These are kind of the responses typically people would say, you know, the um to prayer requests. And I don't think it's I don't think we should feel bad necessarily if if it's like if it feels legitimate to us, doesn't make sense. There's another category though where there are things that we we do feel like are very valuable. At times we might pursue the Lord in prayer to answer those things, you know. I can give examples. I'll leave it for now. That maybe we should we should challenge ourselves about the things that we we we focus our time and attention toward in prayer. I I'm thinking of James, is it James 4 where he says you ask and you don't do not receive? What do you say? You because you you spend it basically wrong selfish desires. Yeah, you spend it wrongly for um, yeah, is he so selfish desires or whatever passions. Yeah, you spend it wrongly on your passions, I think he says James 4. Um that seems to me from James to be uh a rebuke. Mm-hmm. Um it just seems in the text that that's what you say. We ask a miss. We ask for reports. You're asking for the wrong things. You're asking wrongly. So I I would just maybe throw it in those two categories. God is God. Yeah, he knows what's best for us, he knows what's ultimate, you know. Um uh He He is working all things together for good for those who love him, who are called according to his purpose. That doesn't mean that everything we experience is a good thing in and of itself. Yeah, he's working them together for a good. He knows what's best, he knows the beginning and the end, he's sovereign, he has a plan.

SPEAKER_01

Better to ask than not ask, correct. Even if we ask amiss, because yeah, we have a father.

SPEAKER_00

So, but that that's where I would say that that's that's one of the things that we should probably consider.

SPEAKER_01

Jesus clearly is not it's just interesting because in the in the context of the parables, there are times that where the parable flows out of a request of what must I do to inherit eternal life? Right. Well, that's quite a request. Yeah. And that's quite a request of Jesus. Right. This burning request is I mean, this this is a man who's on some level listening to Jesus. He's part of the crowd that's pursuing Jesus to hear Jesus, and the burning thing on his heart, as he he he probably doesn't know he's speaking to the Lord of all the earth, yeah, God of heaven and earth, second member of the Holy Trinity, and his burning thing is like, hey, I've got a brother who I think is being unjust. He's got an inheritance. Right. He's even like he's being greedy with it. Yeah, he's not sharing it with me. So here he is, you know, he has Jesus as the, you know, I'm he's making the request of Jesus. This is this is the burning thing on his heart. And and Jesus is like, yeah, no, here's here's what we're really gonna deal with.

SPEAKER_00

Well, and what's interesting too, I think I shared on this last week that Jesus knows what's in man's heart. Like it's interesting because the Good Samaritan, the question started with, What must I do to inherit eternal life? That's actually a really good question. Oh, yeah. And I would say a valid question, but the heart of the questioner was not right. Yeah. So the question was actually a test of Jesus, and it's kind of like, all right, you're gonna test me, let me spin this on you, and then let me use this to teach you and explain, you know, the limits you put on your love and all that. Here, maybe there is a scenario whereby this could be a legitimate prayer request if it's like a complete injustice. I don't know, yeah, who knows. But again, Jesus perceives through this that's like, hey, you your request is coming from a place of covetousness, and and so interestingly, what Jesus is giving this man is what he really needs, and it's the the rebuke and the reminder about what he prioritizes in life.

SPEAKER_01

Um but yeah, it's just it's what it's just interesting. Makes me wonder. He obviously clearly perceives Jesus as a leader, yeah. Someone with significance, someone with some level of influence and power to even get involved in this situation.

SPEAKER_00

And I think, and I again I've uh you spend a lot of time studying and you don't apply a lot of what you study to a sermon, but I I I seem to remember in some commentaries I read, it's not unreasonable to make that request of a rabbi. That's where I was going. I was wondering.

SPEAKER_01

I wonder if he's been to the rabbis, he's been to the Pharisees, he's not getting help or as an answer.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, these people who are experts in the login, you're you're gonna you're gonna have you're gonna have uh he's he's probably going to the right avenue. Yeah. But again, he probably doesn't quite perceive who it is he's making this request of. Um that's my assumption, is that he doesn't know or he'd ask better questions. Well, isn't it funny? If we knew who he was. Because it's like, oh my goodness. This guy, maybe we'll meet him in heaven. You know, who knows where his journey and story goes. But can you imagine thousands of people are there? You fight through the crowds to ask a question. And that's the question you asked. You're like, if that if that guy is in glory, you know that he's gonna be kicking himself. Like, you know what? I'm the guy. Yeah, I had one chance. I got through the crowds that day, I fought my way, and I asked about uh earthly inheritance. Like, what a what a silly thing.

SPEAKER_01

It it to circle into that even further. You know, the the man asked Jesus to mediate this financial situation. Instead of that being addressed at all, Jesus cuts right to the heart issue and you know, be on your guard against all covetousness and greed and be rich toward God. Um it's it's hard to believe that at the end of that he'd like, okay, well, thanks for the devotional. What about the what about the inheritance? You know, this is where this all began. Sure. And this is another one of those parables where the story, the end result is not told. We don't know how the man responded. It just left there for us.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Which we've talked about already in these parables.

SPEAKER_00

And I I have a strong uh thought because it happens so often in the Bible. I usually think things are left unresolved because ultimately we're the ones that are supposed to wrestle with it. Yeah, for sure. If there was a resolution, we go, oh, that guy's situation is dealt with. We have it's and it's like the reason that uh again, I believe the Holy Spirit is uh this is God's word, it's breathed out by God. And yet at the same time, I also believe that you have human authors who are writing in their unique style. And so um, which I get that's not what this episode is about, is about you know, it's not about that, but I think in particular, the reason Luke has it written this way and it's unresolved, because clearly there could be a resolution, is it just lands on us that much harder. It just does. Yeah, and it's like, oh, what what am I learning from this parable? Because really the inclusion of it is for my sake, you know, not for the sake of just giving a documented account of what happened with that guy, yeah, ultimately.

SPEAKER_01

So it's interesting because the other one of the other financial situations where the resolution is given is Zacchaeus, where he was going from a greedy, covetous man to a very generous man, but that has a different application, a different point of what's being taught.

SPEAKER_00

Yep. Oh, a hundred percent. Yes, exactly. Exactly. And it's it's the result in Zacchaeus' life that's really meant to land on us in that situation.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Uh you again, this whole parable, uh, the man wants uh a particular financial situation mediated. Jesus refuses to do that, but he instead uses it as a teachable moment on covetousness and greed and also being rich toward God. You commented, we talked some, you talked some in your message about covetousness and how it's interesting. I thought during your message and even afterwards, that makes the list of Ten Commandments. Yes. Which is interesting. So if you're you know you got Ten Commandments and covetousness is in the ten. Um you commented some about this. Um why uh is covetousness such a big deal? Yeah, why is it so often, you know, diminished in our categories of immorality? We just don't it's not that big of a deal. So you commented some of that on a Sunday. You want to lean back into the jump in a little bit.

SPEAKER_00

So I think one of the big uh points of application I meant with that is that if we if we diminish the significance of covetousness, I think we uh we lose sight of what the scriptures teach about it. Paul in particular has a few references where he he puts it on par with idolatry. And I think I tease that out as to why it is. It's because that desire of something, that sinful desire of something that you don't have comes from a place of of it is such a yearning or craving of the heart that you have you have elevated that to something that uh only God deserves that kind of level of desire, right? So I think Paul te seems to present that in that way. Um and so it is significant. I think it's a pretty grave situation when we when we have an affection or desire for something to that level, um, that's a dangerous thing to fall in. Interesting that you mentioned that question. This is a little bit of a caveat to this. Maybe even helpful for the listener. I will say, and I mean I use this as an illustration. Yeah, I do have a my take would be that there are some sins that are more egregious than others. One of the misconceptions I think in the the church sometimes is you say, Well, I've heard people say, Well, all sin is equal in the eyes of God or whatever. So it's almost like this idea that like there's no level or variation to sin. I would distance myself from that. Same. My take would be all sin uh is a violation of what God has his standards, his aggression, it's a missing. It's missing the mark. Yep. So all sin uh is immoral, is wrong, is evil. And as we read then the the scriptures, like very clearly, if you break one, you've you violate the whole law. Yep. So to that end, there all sin equally condemns us, right? But all sin is not equal. All sin is not equal. And and Jesus makes that really clear when he's all points that out varying degrees of punishment. Oh, the law does for sure. Exactly. We read that in the law, but even Jesus, when he's condemning the moment with the Pharisees where he says, Hey, you tithe the dill, the mint, and the cumic. But you neglect the weightier issues of the law, justice and mercy. Right. And it's like Jesus, and he says, Well, what you should have done is, you know, not neglected the form of the law, however, he says that. Like you should have done both. But the point is, like you're you're fo you're hyper focusing on the minute aspects of the law, these minor things. Missing the greatest. It is a significant thing. Yeah. And probably far more significant than we would typically realize just because of um what the scriptures teach about it.

SPEAKER_01

So it's also interesting in the New Testament, covetousness is used in list of sin, and it's in the list of really grievous sins. It absolutely is. Um it's also interesting too, uh, Romans 7, Paul references covetousness, not knowing what covetousness was until the law came in and and and revealed that. But that's also instructive in the fact that Paul, as a strict Pharisee by way of education and training, would look at the law in a sense there would be like, well, I've not had an affair, an adulterous affair, I've not murdered anyone, I've not you know stolen someone's property. Um, but that one's just gonna condemn them. All right. That's so interesting.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. That's a very well, probably because it's a very accessible sin. Yeah, and universal. Yeah. And then you throw in to that the old the other uh component is just obviously what Jesus teaches in the Sermon on the Mount about some of these things that we it is really what happens in the heart that becomes the problematic component to some of these things. And it's like you might feel like you've you know you haven't murdered, but like what you've done in your heart, and so obviously there's there's a he reinterprets, I think, authoritatively the spirit of the law and helping us understand that all people before him have fallen short.

SPEAKER_01

So if if covetousness is part of our old man, part of our old nature, sure, how what what activities uh might we engage in that would actually increase covetousness in us? And on the flip side of that, how do we put it to death? You know what I mean? We're how do we put that off? How do we put it to death? So what what what what are some common practices that just kind of disciple that and we don't want to be disciple? Can I give a contemporary example? Sure, yeah. Social media. Oh, and fascinating. You hadn't thought of that at all.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I only just say that because it's like how I mean um several thousand years, two thousand years ago, when this guy uh was dealing with covetousness, a lot a big part of that was you your awareness of what people had was through through what you perceived directly when you were in proximity to them. We now live in a world where everybody puts on display all these wonderful things about their life. You know, they curate the perfect image of their family and you know, the cabins up north and the vacations and stuff. It's like, man, you if you really want to struggle with with covetousness, just scroll through your social media post for a few minutes. And I think that that's probably a common contemporary snare. Um so there's probably a host of other things, you know, uh just the way that the world is today. We have all that's accessible in front of us. You can get things with the click of a button. So I'm sure that's that's part of it. I don't know if you had thoughts on that in particular.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's interesting. I hadn't thought of the social media component of that, of uh observing other people's lives, their version of their life that they want displayed. And I would say it's not just stuff.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's what's unique about that social media component. Sometimes it's it's that because we have this curated, idealized view of we we put out for the world kind of a facade, if I'm being honest. It's like we take 30 photos and we pick the best one and throw a filter on there, and that's the photo we put online, and I think that it's it gives a false perspective of what reality is, and that just fuels this culture of people who are looking and seeing things and wanting what other people have. So that's big. Um yeah, there's probably a lot more. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I thought about in the realm of of covetousness and greed and desire for particularly wealth, um, an activity that's um common uh and an increasing problematic way is um uh the the matter of, you know, um gambling has just become huge. Sports sports gambling and on online gambling. And and I think it's um people we probably be wise to recognize that this is beyond a form of entertainment. It can easily disciple, I now want something and I want something from someone else without working for it. Uh if I can get it for free. So it's just it it has a unique way of discipling us in ways that we're not thinking through or being discipled. And again, it it's not a real a lane I want to get legalistic about. Right. But I think there are things that can disciple covetousness and greed that that we need to be thoughtful about as as Christians. And I think they're because we don't want to if that's a part of our old nature, we don't want to feed that. Right. And how do we go to putting that to death and putting that off? So what what would cause me to be others oriented, even with my own resources, you know, building wealth to bless others, not to benefit my soul. And then anyways.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I think it's such a source that in particular is such a source of uh it's easily something that we can put our hope in.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You know, which I think is a misguided hope. Yeah. But yeah, that's that's good. Uh, was there a second part of that? Did I miss that?

SPEAKER_01

Uh just yeah, it would that what activities might, you know, increase covetousness in us that we don't want to do, and what are some things that we want to do to put that to death? To put I I think there's I think the matter of we haven't talked much about this is um how do we know if we're uh setting our affections on uh wealth and possessions in a way that we're putting that in a in a category it shouldn't be. Uh some of that is just give some of it away. How do you feel about giving some of it away? Um unprompted, un you know, how do I feel about letting go of some of my resources would be a good um not only a good practice, but a good test of our own soul of how do I feel about letting this go?

SPEAKER_00

Right. Yeah. Yeah, the things that we cling to tightly are are the things that we tend to treasure the most, you know, and I think that that's good. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Uh probably one more thing, and we'll wrap this up. Uh I appreciated this about your message as well. Just a reminder that um what we have, you you you referenced the verse out of Psalms that God owns everything. Yes, everything is his. And so, in the sense that we are stewards of what we what we have, we've been given by God, and we're to steward those well, I think that's just a great reminder. Um, I really appreciated it. I always need that reminder. Everything I have is God's, and I'm just uh a manager of that. But how how does how does the reminder of that uh move our thoughts and minds and activities, you know, extending outward instead of inward? You know, what how does that how does that move us from selfishness to generosity? The the mindset of we're stewards, we're not owners, we're managers.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think oh man, there's probably a lot of things we could say. Uh, funny thing too, at the 10 o'clock service, I think in particular, I made a point about that, and there was a young child who was almost flabbergasted by the thought, oh, like something like, oh, it is? And when I said everything is the Lord's, it's like it was a great moment for the those who He's like, everything's the Lord.

SPEAKER_01

What about this? What I'm holding on to, my hot wheel on the seat right here.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. Yeah, I think um I think that's just a helpful way to think through part of it is is uh if God is the source of all that I have, part uh part of the, you know, some people say you can't outgive God kind of thing. I mean, uh, you can probably take that to to an extreme, or maybe that could foster some some ideas that I wouldn't always align with. But my point in that is if if we are truly stewards and every and God is the source of what we have, the the ability to to live with an open-handed grip on the resources we have is both enjoying them and sharing them. Right, because also we we know that there's a God who provides and who is generous and who's um who's lavish us with the things that we have and who will supply us with the things that we need. And so I think that's a helpful thing for us in a uh practical way to think through that. Uh, I think that enables us to be more generous when we understand that God is the source. Uh, you know, He is the one who has the cattle in a thousand hills. And so it's not uh it's not as if we um need to live with a mindset of hoarding or a scarcity mindset when we understand that God is the one who richly blesses us with what we have.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you quoted the earth is the Lord's and everything in it. Everything in it. So I I always appreciate the reminder. I need that reminder because uh it's easy for us to, in the context of our life, uh we work and we earn uh income and we use that income to secure things, and it's just easy to unconsciously move into the like these are my things. Yeah. And so the reminder continually that everything belongs to God. Yeah. And uh it's just a blessed reminder. It's good.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'm I also need a reminder. Yeah, pretty much every time I preach, I'm preaching to myself first. Of course. I preach to myself on Thursday and Friday, and then I when I finally am done doing that, I try to preach on Sunday.

SPEAKER_01

Uh, with that in mind, where are we going the Sunday? What where are we going?

SPEAKER_00

Great question. Well, don't hold me to this. So if you show up on Sunday and it's different. Now again, we're we're it's Wednesday, so I better I better be pretty finalized in this.

SPEAKER_01

But we've only got two more parables to go. Yes. And there's there's 35 to 40 of them in the gospels.

SPEAKER_00

It's looking like it's going to be the parable of the soils. Um, I've uh touched on that uh parable before, not not too long ago, but there's I didn't preach through the parable itself.

SPEAKER_01

This is the the sower who sows seed in the various soils.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, some people call it the parable of the sower. Um, I think I maybe prefer the title parable of the soils, but um, yeah, and I think what's significant about this one is oh well, this is in Matthew and Luke and Mark, I think. So I think it's found in all three. For sure, Matthew and Luke. I think it's also Mark. And it's I believe, especially with Matthew and Luke, I'm familiar with this, but I believe it's the parable that is the first listed of all the parables. And told quote me on this. And I think told of the disciples. It is, but what's interesting about it, it's the one moment, the significant moment where Jesus gives instruction about what parables are. Yeah. It's one of the reasons why I want to include it. I touched on it this week. Uh well, I'll not overpreach because that's gonna be that that's gonna be this coming coming message. But just not everybody perceives the parables, and so that's a that's a feature of this. And the idea of listening and hearing God's word is is central to this whole parable.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, it's a good one. And it's also one of those moments where it's kind of cool because sometimes Jesus tells a parable and then he just lets the listener figure it out. This is one of those where he's like, hey, let me like give you the really simple, clear. So for what for us when we go through this parable, like it's not like we have to wonder what the things mean. We're giving interpretation. Now there's a few nuances there and some takes different people have, but uh, it's a good one. That's where we're planning to go this week. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I'll the only correction I'll make is all of Jesus' parables are good ones. They're all good. You're right. You're right. But this is another good parable and looking forward to it. I'm sure it'll be a great Sunday. Looking forward to the um, this will be number four. And uh so yeah, excellent. I this has been good, valuable conversation as well.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, thanks, Mark. Appreciate your taking time to to chat, and I'm looking forward to talking to you again. Everybody, well, hey, thanks again for tuning in. We hope that uh you plan to join us next week as we jump back in and unpack another message.