Sisters, Sales, And Starting Over

The glossy version of success leaves out the 3:30 a.m. drives, the thousand folded newsletters, and the sting of “you’re only as good as your last month.” We go there. As sisters who built careers in real estate and lending, we unpack how authenticity, boundaries, and grit power real reinvention—and why the myth of overnight success falls apart when you measure profit, purpose, and peace.

We trace Casey’s winding path from early sales wins to a government internship with top secret clearance, then back to mortgages where her true edge lives: translating a maze of stakeholders into simple, steady progress for clients. We talk candidly about divorce, co‑parenting with intention, and the decision to protect kid time without apology. The “let them” mindset becomes a tool for sanity, and the harder step—letting yourself—opens room for growth. We contrast vanity metrics with sustainable business, share the money moves we wish we’d made at 23, and explain how owning real estate created the freedom to design a life by the water.

If you’re rebuilding, stuck, or craving impact, you’ll hear a practical blueprint: ask honest questions, choose your hard, stop comparing, and serve someone when your energy dips. We spotlight why Movement Mortgage’s culture of giving back matters, how to build wealth through property, and why surrounding yourself with bigger thinkers changes your ceiling. The real flex isn’t a fancy car; it’s calm under pressure, work that funds community, and kids who see what a healthy adult looks like.

Listen, share with someone who needs a nudge, and tell us: what brave move will you make this week? Subscribe for more candid conversations on growth, wealth, and living on purpose—and leave a review to help others find the show.

Transcript

Sisters And Why Authenticity Matters

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Super excited to have my sister Casey on today. This is um I've been really excited to sit down and talk with you. Obviously, we talk all of the time. Yep. Uh lots and lots of times probably a day. Um obviously we're sisters, but we don't have the typical, I think, sister relationship and the fact that we have uh had a business together, we've worked in different capacities over the years, um, and so it's it's a it's a little bit different, I think, than the average person in a sibling relationship, of course, unless you work with your sibling. True. So that would change it.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

Uh so we became moms around the same time. Uh, we're only two years apart. Um, even though I am older than you, I think that um I've learned a lot from you. And so the whole point of this podcast is to I think, you know, shed some light behind like the highlight reels that we see on social media, the truth behind it all, and uh, you know, I think also encourage people to keep growing, to keep changing. And so I really can't think of anyone better to talk about change, reinvention, uh, never giving up, grit than you. Thank you. So uh definitely have taught me tons and tons, and I'm sure you will continue to teach me. So to kick it off, um, do you want to tell us a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Uh sure. Well, um I'm 43 years old. I can't believe I'm saying that. I'm 45. Yep. Um, obviously, we um born and raised in Midlothian, Virginia. Um, I'm a mom. I have a nine-year-old daughter, Allie, who is my life. So if you do follow me on social media, like that's it. Like, she's an everything, she's everything to me. Um, I'm married to Josh Clemmer. He is a market leader at Movement Mortgage, and I recently just joined back into the lending world, which I'm super excited about. I know we'll talk about it. Um, been in real estate and mortgage since 2006, so I can't believe I've said that because we were talking about coming down to the studio and Rocket's Landing and how none of this stuff was here when we started selling real estate. So it's really cool to see Richmond evolve over um the last couple decades. Um, I I don't know, do you want to start asking me questions? Sure. Go on and on. I mean, I like to travel and eat and um have I like to have a lot of fun, no doubt, no doubt.

Honesty, Loyalty, And Being Yourself

SPEAKER_02 2:55

Um so you know, you are somebody uh that is like fiercely loyal, um you know, a phenomenal friend to have, obviously a phenomenal family member to have, always someone in um in the people that you care about and love's corner firmly. Um you are someone that is uh I think really I don't know how to say it without it. It's something I you have a character trait I wish that I I'm still working on developing, and that is you are not afraid to be who you are. You are a hundred percent, we use you hear this word all the time, um I think in different business training and in social media and marketing, about being um, you know, transparent and being authentic. But you've been authentic before the term was uh a catchphrase and uh where do you think that comes from?

SPEAKER_00 4:03

I you know, I don't when you say it and I and I know that I'm honesty is like such a huge pillar in my world. It's everything, and I don't you know, I've had you know, growing up having not great, you know, boyfriend relationships. I mean most people have. So, you know, I don't know if it stemmed from that because I think it was even before, but honesty is huge for me. Um and I don't know, like I might need to go to therapy over that to figure out where that does stem from. But I um and I'm just completely honest with myself, and that's probably why I'm super comfortable with making changes. Yeah, because if it doesn't feel authentic to me or right or I'm not the best version of myself, I'm gonna pivot and go find that. So the honesty piece is just huge for me. Um, and I think the loyalty comes with that too, where um I I believe so much in human beings and I love people. I think that's why I'm in the sales industry, is you have to really like people. Maybe you don't, but I do, and I love people's stories. And so if I am friends with you, I want to know everything about you, I want to get in the weeds with you, and I'm gonna be there for you. So that's I don't know. I don't know where that comes from. You know, I don't know if that's a a middle child thing of wanting to assimilate and be okay with whatever situation, you know. I I'm not quite sure. That's a it's a great question, but I know that that's a huge character trait, and I and I do love that about myself. I I I wish other people could just find that because it is so freeing to just be who you are. Yeah, I mean And there's some things that like I still am working on, like that I want to be even more like all right, no, this is or maybe even softer versions of it, because I know that sometimes I'm just brutally honest and I need to work on that, because that's also not the best way to communicate. It's true, it is true. Might have a little um version of Tourette's, but you know, that's something I can totally work on.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

I don't think anyone would ever question where they stand with you. True, yeah, which is a refreshing, yeah, uh, a refreshing place to be when you're in a any sort of friendship, relationship, business relationship with somebody, you know exactly, I know where I stand with you at all times, which to me gives me a lot of like you know, it gives you flat footing, lots of flat footing isn't the right way to describe it, it gives you lots and lots of solid ground to stand on. Yeah. When you know and you're not reading into maybe that's what it is too.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Like maybe I don't feel like other people are that. Um, like I'm always trying to figure out like, what do they mean by that? So I just know if I am just like, hey, like this is how I feel, or you know, that came across wrong, or you hurt my feelings, but you know, and I'm getting better about communicating it that way. But I think it's because I haven't re received it, maybe is what my brain is telling me that okay, well, if you can be honest and you know, whatever it is in real estate, or if we're talking about mom and like we uh I can just relate, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

It's kind of putting more out into the world what you what you wish was coming.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Yeah, I think the psychology is probably that way, right? Like we always think that way, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

We um what do you think? All right, so as sisters, you know, and you and I obviously in business and in we have similar friends, uh similar uh business businesses. What do you think is maybe one of the biggest misconceptions of us? Of us? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

I briefly read that and I think the biggest one takeaway is everyone thinks I'm older. I was like, I don't know how to take that. I think it's just because I'm taller and I have warm makeup, and I still do, and um probably more assertive. That's fair. That's fair, yeah. I I definitely will tell you, you know, you you're softer about that. You get to it in a softer way, a more KK way. Yeah. Um, and then I just have to say it like at dinner the other night. Now, granted, you don't drink anymore, and I do so loose lips, you know. You could, you know, two glasses of wine in me and I'm gonna really die.

SPEAKER_02 8:45

It's okay. It's a good thing to be uh to be really, really uh transparent.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Yeah, I think that's fair. Like if you're talking about business, I can probably be a little bit more assertive.

Early Careers And Money Lessons

SPEAKER_02 8:56

Um but so you know, you and I got into um business when we were, you know, very very early in our twenties. Yeah. And now we're in our early to mid-40s. And uh, you know, it's kind of you see so many of the younger uh folks in real estate coming out and really making a big splash. Yeah. Um, social media is a huge vehicle for that, podcast, all of this sort of stuff. There's so much more. Um, what would you tell yourself, your t your 23, however old you were when you got into the business? What would you tell yourself if you could go back? What would you say to her starting out in real estate?

SPEAKER_00 9:48

I don't know. I, you know, I I love not knowing anything because you don't know the mistakes you're making. And you're, you know, I love watching the the young agents and the young loan officers and any young person in this industry because it's tough, number one. It's it's hard. Um, and they inspire me, and I'm sure you, because this is why we're sitting here definitely doing a podcast. And um, so I would probably not change anything just because I didn't know what I didn't know, and I was ultra confident, and I'm I probably would have said, Casey, save more money, don't spend it all, because that's what we did when we were young, and had never in a million years had I received a commission or a check with commas before. I mean, before that I was making$30,000 a year as an executive assistant. And after taxes, my paycheck was probably like, I don't know,$900 every two weeks. Like it wasn't I had never seen$3,000 or five. You know, because back in the day when we're selling in the early 2000s, I mean, I was we were the sales price was what, 120, 130,000?

SPEAKER_02 11:03

Under 200,000.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Yeah. So I mean, but I would have saved more and probably had bought real estate earlier. That's a huge one that I wish I had really focused on. Um, and maybe had gone to like an investment class earlier. So if anyone that's young out there, it especially when you don't have a lot of expenses when you're super young, yes. You haven't maybe, but I mean, I didn't have a mortgage then. I was renting and um I had a little Honda Accord. It was a$200 car payment. Uh so if I had really just saved and bought a house really early on, I think I would have that would have been the advice I would have told myself. Yeah, at 22 years. If you invest in the actual business that we so firmly believe in. I just invested in a lot of the bar scenes in Richmond. So I've invested in a lot of clothing. Yeah, clothes. That's we did clothes, trips, food, shoes.

Pivot To Government And Back To Sales

SPEAKER_02 12:03

So you know, so you've gotten into you've had a a really interesting um education and career path. So you've uh you know, you you're somebody who went back and got their um MBA as an adult. Um you worked in um DC, you got your you worked in government contracts, you got your top secret clearance, um you uh you went into real estate, you went into mortgages, you uh worked for the federal government, you've done, you came back into real estate, and it's all been great to you. It's all been it's been a it's been a career that has, I think, a lot of similarities. You know, what led you to uh well let's talk about this because uh you know when we're talking about um people's lives unfolding, uh people continuing to stay in momentum, continuing to keep going and pushing themselves. What do you think um uh you know, I I I've heard a great um I heard a great, well, I watched it, it was a great podcast with Mel Robbins, and they're talking about how every child has a different set of even though we all have the same parents, we have a different childhood because of birth order, all sorts of different things that go on, and I believe that because Casey and I are one of four kids and when we sit down and talk to each other, we all have really similar but very different experiences. But to get back to, you know, that that like desire, that that grit, that constant like like reaching for something more and more like where do you think that comes from?

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Yeah, I think a lot of it is um because I'm not done, you're not done. No. I'm growing to something that I really want to grow into, and I think you learn from each of these jobs you have. And sometimes if you just I anytime that I have changed, it's because out of necessity, or it it's outgrown my purpose at that point. Yeah. Um it's kind of like uh what's the the workout, the high intensity workout? Yeah, the hit. Yeah, the hit, um, which I don't do. Me either. Um but you work out really hard and then you take a break, and you know, you do those things. So so really for my career, it was you talked, you and mom talked me into getting into real estate. She paid for my um licensing. I took night classes, um, and I worked full-time, and I didn't think I was gonna do it. I was like, okay, fine, you know, I'll I'll do the classes, KK, whatever. And I fell in love with it. And so I did quit my job. And when I started out, I mean I had no money. They were paying me to do their newsletters. So we folded newsletters, hundreds of them, thousands of them, thousands of them, because we were farming at the time. Yes. Um, and so I think you guys gave me a few months, and then I got my first um deal right away, and that was it, right? Like I was off to the races, and it was really fun. And then after a while, uh the market changed. So this was back in 08 when the market tanked. And because I've always taken care of myself, because Kristen and I really have. I mean, we've we were expected to work at 16, pay your car insurance. Right. I mean, there was no excuse. It was all on me at the time, and so I wanted a fallback plan if this real estate gig was gonna implode. Like that was that was my mindset was having something as a backup. Um, my ex-husband and I at the time were both in sales, like commission, and it was just scary. So I, whenever I think about doing one thing, I'm like, all right, I want to like if you want to learn how to be a chef, like, how do you do that? You know, you've got to go to school or do all these things. So I thought, well, maybe the federal government is a pretty stable place to have a job. The backup plan. The backup plan. But the only way to get into the federal government is to either be in the government already, move around through the agencies, um, be an active military or vet, or a student. That's it. So I decided to go get my MBA. And um, after the first semester, um I started applying for internships. And I I think I applied to like I want to say like 2,000 online, and I was getting no hits. And so I started going, like you and I are the same, like we don't give up. So I was like, well, screw it, I'm gonna go to DC next job fair. So I started going to job fairs face to face, and I met this one recruiter face to face, and we hit it off, and she put my resume on the top of the pile. And so I got an internship at the um National Geospatial Intelligence Agency. Um, they used to be the mapping agency. Um, they're the ones that the analysts found bin Laden. So pretty cool. They offered me a contracts um specialist position, but it was an internship, and it was a two-year internship um up in Springfield, Virginia. And I was selling real estate on the weekends. As you know, you remember this. And it did, it hurt Chris and it broke her heart that I was doing this. Um, because I think she felt like I was leaving her, and again, now that we're older, it's easier to like say, well, this person needs some growth, right? It's about them, yeah. Well, I mean, but yeah, I was driving back and forth to DC, leaving at like 3:30 in the morning, um, working and driving back. And I did that for two years. They offered me a job and I politely declined it. And I needed that. I needed that to show me that I wanted to be in sales. I knew that I loved real estate, and then my ex-husband was in the mortgage industry at the time, and so I actually just begged his boss for a job, and I got um an entry-level job with prosperity. Yes. So you remember that? And yes, did that for a while, and um is this too long?

SPEAKER_02 18:19

No.

unknown 18:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

We're talking, this is how it goes.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

And so I I love the mortgage industry. I would have stayed at Prosperity when we worked together. The only reason I left was just out of the divorce. I mean, when we decided to separate, it was just a really small, close-knit group of us, and I just felt like it was appropriate to separate myself at that point. Went to another mortgage company, did not like the company, and that was the time where me, you, and mom decided to just go back to real estate. Yes. You were managing at the time, and I think we were all kind of miserable where we were.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

Definitely.

Grit, Rebuilds, And Choosing Your Hard

SPEAKER_00 18:53

So getting realigned together was really fun, and coming back to mortgages, which just always has been something I wanted to do, and meeting my now husband, who is the market leader for Richmond, it just was it was the right time. Sure. And they just had changed um their policy at movement that they could let me keep my real estate license. So that was a big deal. Like I didn't want to give up my everything I'd worked for.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

So a lot of back and forth. And you know, now I can still use my license um in a in a really cool way if if I we want to buy investment property, but I'll just keep it just to have.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

So talking about, so there's so much um so much to um unpack there. But I, you know, it's easy to gloss over um some things that you said, but you know, as your sister and you know, hearing knowing your inspiring story, you know, you've got to really think about what it's like to get in a car for two years, drive back and forth from Richmond to DC to fulfill, you know, a goal that you have. That's where, you know, very quickly the excitement of change slips away and the real grind of that comes into play. Yeah. But, you know, don't you think that's a skill set that is, you know, is an essential skill set to have, especially if you own your own business like you and I have. Yeah. And it's also, you know, it's a it's a it's a not a get rich quick method here. Um and I, you know, that's something that um you know, in sales, and this is, you know, not a real estate podcast, but because this is what we've done, this is a this is gonna be a lot of the topic that we're talking about. Um you know, in sales, there's there's volume numbers that people are putting out, right? Sure, yeah. And we're about to hit that time of year next month, which I kind of dread. Um but but we have to, in some ways, you know, you know, put out to our consumers, you know, that we are our sales numbers, because it it shows confidence in what in what we do. Um but numbers are just numbers. And so profit's a totally different thing, and that's obviously no one is advertising their profit, their take home. Sure. Um, and it reminds me of um you know, for anyone out there who is not hitting their goals immediately, uh, whether you're in sales, whether you're working for a, you know, a Fortune 500 company, you're a teacher, a nurse, what have you, everyone has metrics they're trying to reach and to achieve. Um, you know, this podcast is probably for you because You and I have taken the whole word. Um I don't want to put words in your mouth, but certainly has not been overnight success for neither one of us.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

No, I mean I'm in a rebuild phase for sure. And you know, this year for me has been one of the because I just switched over from real estate to mortgage, was one of my worst real estate years. I had at least a dozen deals just dissipate, and that's real numbers. I mean, when people re when I tell people like I lost probably$150,000 in income.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

Income, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Like most people couldn't survive that. Right. And so I think in sales it just teaches you just to put your head down and just keep going. Or you if if this isn't working, figure out something that that is. And so I think whereas you have you've you're tried and true, you are real estate and you're so good at it, but that's easy to say, right? Like you work your tail off. It's it's the same thing with driving to DC. Like I knew that I had two years in me that I could do it, and you just do it. Every day you get up and you and you and you drive to work and you do your job and you come home and you're like, all right, I've got another day to do that. It's like choose your hard. Choose your hard. Yeah, exactly. So that was like I knew that I had to finish that program. Um, I committed to that. So I think that's the the thing is in real estate or mortgage or in just in sales or in life, is you have to just get up every day and do it.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

I mean, what you're saying, you talk about in sales.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

We We're only good only good is your last month. I say that a lot.

SPEAKER_02 23:52

And you work we about being unemployed.

Numbers, Profit, And The Myth Of Success

SPEAKER_00 23:57

Oh yeah. I mean, so the second that anyone goes under contract, I'm unemployed. You know, you that's that's it. I mean, we're gonna we're gonna get the transaction to closing, and that's you know, a feat in itself. But yeah, once you have a client under contract, now I need to go out and find another client to get under contract. Same as a loan. Like once I've I've locked them in and they've locked their interest rate, like I gotta keep rolling. Um so it's exciting for me now because I just started, and my sister and her team are supporting me in such incredible ways, and I'm watching my pipeline grow of pre-approvals. Well, you've earned that over the years. I mean it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

Well, thank you. But I mean, forget you were a lender before.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

Well, of course. And helped other lenders get in the business. But yeah, um just to see the pipeline grow and just be really hyper-focused on that. Um, because that's when that starts getting skinny. Like I don't, you know, if you're closings, you're like, oh, I'm closing 20 this month, which would be amazing, but you have five in your pipeline, that's scary.

SPEAKER_02 24:59

There's this um uh misnomer that is out there, especially um in the fields that you and I are in, and that is um, oh, you know, you're s you're s we this is something that I've I've definitely had um work very, very hard to have someone say this, but uh you know, you're so successful. Um but uh but success is not a a permanent place. And for us in the service and sales industry, you know, not to beat a dead horse, because we just talked about it, but you we serve at our highest capacity. It is nothing but the consumer and protecting their best interest and trying to, you know, complete the job that we were hired for. But then we are unemployed. Correct. And so that is a level of grit that um real estate looks fun, it can be sexy, it can look, you know, I always I I get on to uh uh other folks in our industry for posting that they're multi-million dollar producers. You know, the business is nothing uh that the way that it looks. Right. You know, people think we drive fancy cars and show multi-million dollar houses and cash million dollar paychecks, and um, it's the furthest thing from the truth. Yeah. Just truthfully. I I wish it was like that. Seriously, but it's not, no, it's something very different.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

No, and we it's a I always say it's a living, breathing thing, and we we do have the privilege and the burden of dealing with people's happiest and saddest moments. We do. And so those highs and lows, you know, we're human too, so it can be so draining. I mean, you and I talk about getting home and just sitting and staring at the wall, like or driving home in silence, like it takes a lot out of us. Um, we're a therapist, we are a financial advisor, we are a wealth builder, we are um a marriage counselor, um, we're all of it.

SPEAKER_02 27:15

So you're somebody that has uh that's okay, we're in sales. If the phone isn't ringing, we're in trouble. We're we're in big trouble.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Spam.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

If you you're somebody who has um, I don't know if this has been intentional or if it's like if you've really worked on having this in your life, but you have boundaries. Something that um you have taught me over and over again. Um how does how do you think that is how is that how has that come about?

Boundaries, Let Them Theory, And Self-Worth

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Yeah, well and why are you how are you so good at it? It's a great question. Um, I think that anyone that is, if you've gone through something really tough in your life, and my tough was my divorce, and if you've walked away from a lot or lost a lot, um you tend to read self-help books, you tend to go to therapy, if you mean if you're trying to better yourself, which I was. Um, so I was just listening to everything I could. Obviously, Mel Robbins was a fantastic podcast. Yeah, a long time ago. Yeah, Mel Sportsheet, yeah, um Oprah. Um I I did all of that because I had a lot of soul searching. And from that, a big takeaway on all of those is boundaries. And so I think, you know, at that point in my life, I was just starting to implement things. Like you hear things over and over again, you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna do it. I'm like, well, how can that hurt to just start implementing these practices? And I started really identifying toxic places in my life, and the boundary was a huge one. Um and so I mean, and had a, you know, in the dating world was not fun and had a really bad relationship and um and some and some bad friendships. So it when you're trying to better yourself and you hear about boundaries, and it is hard, it is scary to cut someone out of your life. I mean, that's that's the boundary I've had to set first for myself. And I and I will say I did that early on in my life too with some other people. I really do find myself identifying toxicity quick and trying to remove it because I can't flourish in a toxic environment.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

Do you think you've always had a strong sense of self-worth, or is it something you fought hard for?

SPEAKER_00 29:47

I think it's something I fought hard for. I think it was I was the wallflower in school. Yeah, um, wanted to be more, wanted to be heard more, and um, you know, finally just started believing in myself. And like, look, we all get this one life. It's me. I'm like, who else is gonna do it? Yeah. So the boundary piece is really cool, and I and I encourage anyone that's struggling with it to um obviously if you haven't read it or listened to it, the let them theory is huge. It's not a new theory. She's just right, she's writing about it. Um, because it really does free you to be who you're supposed to be and work on yourself versus get so caught up in everyone else's just BS.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

Yeah, and I think um the second step in the let them theory is let you is then let you. Yeah, that's where I am. And that's the let them is a lot easier for me than the let you. I can I can get behind let them. Yeah, you know, Kristen let them. Yeah. But then the second part, which to me is the real work, yeah, is you. Yeah. That's the real work.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

It's a great place to be though. Yes. And the more you get to do that and you're like, this is I feel so great, then the let them just keeps because I think a lot of times folks have a hard time the boundary they can set, but they can't hold it. Yes. And I can hold it because usually if you set a boundary with someone that shouldn't be in your life, they're gonna show you the real you. And then I'm like, aha, yeah, bye-bye. Family is very different, and Mel even talks about that. I mean, I can set little boundaries, but it's family, and I love my family, you know, and I want the best for my family, but I can also not get so involved because we're all gonna do what we want to do. Yeah, we're all matter if I Casey thinks it's right or wrong, or you think it's right or wrong, or I think my version's better, like it doesn't matter. Yeah, we're all on our own version, our uh our own our own journey. Yeah. And I'm also married to someone that also believes in it. I have a fantastic partner, or so do you. And that makes it a lot easier to like be a unified unit, like, that believes in in growth and positivity and um and removing that toxic stuff out of your life.

SPEAKER_02 32:22

I think that's one of the most underrated, overlooked um decisions that we make as human beings is our partner. Yeah. And, you know, I remember you and I talking about what it's like to have, you know for us it would be have a husband, but a partner. Yeah. And it is it's a you know, the life is hard enough. Yeah. Right. Not and I hate to be negative because I usually am positive, although I've been finding myself trying to, you know, you catch yourself being negative. Yeah. But the the growth mindset when you're in a relationship with someone who has a growth mindset, who is your biggest cheerleader, who is not a scorekeeper, right? Who is someone who is who has your back no matter what. It's it is the secret weapon behind success, which to me really translates to happiness.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Happiness or peace. Yeah. I'm with you. I mean I have heard that before. That's the most important thing you can ever, the most important decision you ever make, and it's so true. It really is. And I think you know, a lot of people even listening to to this would be like, well, how do you find that person? Well, this is cliche, but you have to do it for yourself first. You have to love yourself the most, and then you'll start attracting people that are like you.

Partners, Peace, And Co-Parenting Well

SPEAKER_02 33:55

Yeah, and I think really knowing, like, like I feel like I got really lucky because I was 19 when I met Brian. Yeah. But I will say that I have I have always had a strong self-worth inside. Yes, you have. And so I know what I was will I knew what I was willing to accept and what I was what were negotiables and non-negotiables.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

You are um an old soul for sure. And you are, you have. I mean, that is true. That's I mean, I was the party girl and the one that, you know, wanted to do all the the stuff. And um, it's just because there was a lot of insecurity there and trying to find myself. And you are like, nope, this is what I want. This is this is what I won't deal with. And now And very confident in that. Yes, at 19.

SPEAKER_02 34:52

The funny thing is in my 40s, while I'm gaining confidence in certain areas, I think I'm in uh I think I'm in another like growth point, right? So which does make you question things and reevaluate. But but that, yeah, that's one thing. Uh there's a lot of other things that I need therapy for, but that is one that I think I'm okay with. Um is knowing um You weren't gonna let any guy mess with you. No, really wasn't. That's funny. And it's I just had a dream, right? I had a dream of things I wanted to do and what I was trying to accomplish. And it man, life looks different than what I thought it would, but in a good way. Yeah. It always kind of works out. So, you know, I don't want to get into uh the specifics of the divorce because that's that's neither here nor there, but I think, you know, what you know, what have you walked away with? Like, what was your greatest lesson from it your divorce?

SPEAKER_00 35:55

Finding myself again. I had lost myself, I was not honoring who I was, and it it just started festering. And so when I got myself back, it was it was really cool. And I had a lot of friends say that like I got Casey back, like Yeah, I felt like that too. Yeah, yeah, um, so and that's you know, Billy's a great human being, is a wonderful father, and we are great co-parents. We are both so much better off. He's found his love and has two kids now, and I've met my love. Like it's it's a we have a great situation now. Now, at that time, you can't see it. Like it's you've built this life together, you've spent all this time together and all this money, and yes, yada yada yada, but my happiness was priceless, and so when I got myself back, it was just amazing, and you can do anything you want then. And he wasn't happy either. No, right?

SPEAKER_02 36:56

We both we both were unhappy, so yeah, but I think you know, I brag about y'all all the time uh to people that ask me, you know, how are y'all how are you doing? How's your sister? Um, you know, there's some jaw-dropping things that I feel like that y'all have accomplished together. You know, it's not every every couple that divorces and gets remarried is capable of, you know, taking their daughter to Disney World with all of the I mean that's y'all have y'all probably really do set an incredibly high standard, but I don't I know both of you obviously extremely well um from an outsider looking in, it looks very intentional. It didn't just happen.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

Yeah, and what it is, I mean, because I I mean we both agreed, you know, after all the bickering and splitting silly furniture and all that stuff, like it had to be about, I mean, we have a child together, so it had to be about her, and um, I wasn't gonna let anything get in the way of that. So of course it's intentional. The Disney thing was literally, we both were like, you're not taking her to Disney without me. Um and so, but we're lucky that we both have partners that are we're all I think pretty reasonable human beings. So we're lucky in that sense because I do think there's a lot of situations where one party is super unreasonable or still spiteful, you know. That's unfortunate because if you really do just put the best interests of that child, all the other decisions are it's there. What's in the best interest of Allie to see her two parents and stepparents happy? Yeah. And that they can communicate like adults, yes, come and go figure. You know, and there's still some quippy moments. I mean, how could there not be? But um yeah, but we I think we all um coexist very nicely, so thank you. And we're going to see Santa all together on Sunday, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:05

I mean, it's it I think I think it's a true testament to you both as human beings and then your love for Allie, yeah, which is huge. So let's talk about being a mom. So um, you know, I never saw myself as a mom, and I am, and so Casey and I um both became moms uh only eight months apart uh when Casey came to meet Anders, my little boy in the hospital. She was actually pregnant and I didn't know. I just found out, which is crazy fun. And so our kids are super close, um, which is not surprising. They look like twins. Um he's the tan one, she's the pale one. We're both raising each other's kids um and personalities in some ways. It's hilarious. What's what is being a mom taught you about yourself?

Motherhood, Time Protection, And Work Rhythms

SPEAKER_00 39:54

Oh my gosh. I mean, it's it's something I never thought I wanted to be. I because I was a very selfish person in the sense of my career. I wanted, I did not want to give that up. I did not want to give up my time, but it is the best thing that I've ever done. She's the greatest gift. Um she has given me a true sense of I try to be more patient. So that's I can't say that's a lie that I'm not more patient because I'm not. Um I try. I try. I try. Um the wonderment uh watching her um just getting to be a version of myself, that's pretty cool. I don't know. Like I because mom had, you know, had four kids, and you know, I know that everyone blames you know this and that about their childhood, and we razzle mom all the time about stuff, but how could she have time when she had four? I don't know. So that is that is why I have one and why I pour everything into her. Yes. Is being this version of a mom that I probably wanted.

SPEAKER_02 41:03

Yeah, yeah. I mean I think it's fair. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

And that doesn't, and then mom will probably say this and see this and like thanks, but it's it's not that there's anything bad, it's just I really enjoy all the wonderment of being a mom.

SPEAKER_02 41:18

So it's interesting, Casey and I, um, so out of the four of us, three of us have one child, and then one of our brothers has three. Yeah. Um, and we had, you know, my version of the childhood was it was a great childhood, you know, a lot to I mean, wonderful memories. Was it a perfect situation? Nope, it doesn't exist. No, it was but it was crazy fun, and um, we did a lot of fun stuff as a family, but I do think it's interesting. I don't know if it's because we waited till we were older or you know, we were you and I were both very career driven. Yeah. Um but you know, you have managed your career, and if if our phones are not going off on this, then it's not authentic, it's not real. Um mine's going off too. So, you know, when you think about um being a mom being a uh and you are a single mom for a while on top of it in real estate, which is a a job that is all-encompassing, um I saw you do something that I don't that I think some people don't have the guts to do, and that is draw huge boundaries. So back to that boundary conversation again, having Allie. And you know talk about talk to me about, you know, think about this. Like you're a single mom, you know, we are all we only eat when we when we serve people and clothes, and yet you have boun you have some sort of balance.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

Like with my clients or yeah, I well I know for sh when I had her and and I was still married to Billy, I did take a big step back. Yes. There I I I think it's just I knew in my head that I was only gonna have one, and so every moment is gone. I feel the same way, yes. And so I there's no negotiating when it comes to time with her.

SPEAKER_02 43:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

And I found that it's like anything, any any practice that you start at with your job, like I know you're getting so great with your clients and you know, being really firm about certain things. Once you start tell you're firm about that, no one really says anything. Um, so I I had just made it a point where when my when I have time with her, and especially after the divorce, and now I have her 50% of the time, there is no need. negotiating. That is my time with her. I will take a phone call. But we're gonna schedule a time to meet face to face when I'm not with her. And that's why I would pack in my days. And I would intentionally do that every week. And clients wouldn't even know it. Like, hey, can you meet Tuesday? Noah can we went Wednesday? I mean how why do they need to know if right? So I was, you know, that's that is I I think a lot of it is you are not and I Josh says this a lot and I believe it. We are not going to be on her deathbed saying I wish I had taken that client's phone call.

SPEAKER_02 44:33

No, we are not.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

I am going to say I we are not I can't believe I missed her dance recital. Yes. I I refuse to do that. Me too. So and there'll be times where I mean there has been times and it kills me to not be with her. I mean I brought her to a Christmas party last night. Well yes.

SPEAKER_02 44:49

Well our kids are um very well versed in all things real estate they're just waiting to turn 18 and pass it pass their test and then they'll be right in um I don't think there's there's any sort of uh of I think I don't even know what I'm trying to say other than they are many real estate agents. They're just many us. Yes that's the truth.

SPEAKER_00 45:12

They like they like being in the know they like Allie and Anders they want to be there. They're in the backseat taking calls giving counsel I think really what it is and I hear that in Allie's voice and I know that sounds so much like us talking about mom and dad and especially with like golf Samaritans and things like that is just that pride. She'll ask me questions like well when you sold a house you know or when you did a mortgage like she's she wants to know and she wants to she's they're just proud.

Reinvention, Mortgage Edge, And Mission

SPEAKER_02 45:43

These are the same kids that asked if um photos were uh in black and white oh yeah they were little they have no no concept of of time but they are proud of us. What do you you know you Allie was very little um so and but yet she's definitely you know watched you reinvent yourself um and I think reinventing yourself is a is a gorgeous thing to be able to display to a child. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:15

You know do you think she's aware yeah I mean she know we I specifically am extremely open with her about the divorce nothing disparaging but she's she know she doesn't remember anything. Yeah she was two and a half when we separated so but she she talks about it now like you know I see pictures but I don't remember and then you know I I tell her like how I feel like we have therapy sessions almost every night even though she goes to therapy. Yeah I think she's aware yeah I mean my biggest thing from and the reason why I wanted to get divorced and be myself again is to show my child what a happy parent looks like. Yeah. I you know it's incredibly important to model that that was it for me was I couldn't have her being raised in an environment where I was miserable. Yeah. And then like to her that's okay and now when I Ali go out and find a relationship of my own well you you're you're gonna be miserable. That's what it is.

SPEAKER_02 47:21

And I didn't I didn't want her to have that idea of what relationships looked like you know and it's not just the divorce obviously because that doesn't define you. That's just a tiny chapter in your life. But you know moving from real estate to lending you know they see they catch on to know exactly what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

Yeah and I and I told her um she well in in the mortgage world if you hit a certain number you go in what's called president's club and it's a trip to some sort of tropical location. Every mortgage company does it. Yes. So her first thing was do I get to go to president's club with you.

SPEAKER_02 48:03

What's in it for me mom?

SPEAKER_00 48:04

What's in it for me? So she was excited. So but I think I think it is yeah I mean I haven't really thought of it that way other than just teaching her like just don't settle for less go follow your dreams do what you want to do you might pivot left and it's wrong and then you learned a lesson you know you just you don't know.

SPEAKER_02 48:24

So you know we've talked about you know you say you're in rebuilding and and you know still in growth mode 100% which I would imagine you know any of us are that's in our 40s this is kind of where it's always been really serious but now it's at least for me the gravity of the fact that I'm midlife right is starting to really catch up with me. But you've done some you know amazing things too a m really amazing things. You and Josh just bought a house on the water a year or so ago um total dream come true um you know there's lots of people out there that have that on their dream board for sure.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

Yeah um how do you balance having a career that's nonstop um you're a mom you're you've got your a new wife how do you balance it all it doesn't seem that hard only because whenever I think about anything like that I can go back to like well you did this like this is nothing your stack of proof yeah um but as far as you know buying the house on the water and we just talked about this the other night I mean the only way we would have could have ever done it is real estate. Yeah owning real estate yeah which I have some really cool PowerPoint presentations for the team to go out and present to clients about how to build wealth and to make millionaires and that's really our you know part of our job but yeah having that house has been awesome. It's taught me like and I guess because I was so used to being a little transient from divorce and moving and moved what four or five times and so going back and forth on the weekends has been fun. It's exhausting and it's also the catalyst to why I went back to lending sure so that I could still work like crazy but not physically be with clients. Because that was real estate demands. And real and the the agents that especially you right now with all your buyers I mean that's it's a grind and it's a physical in the car in with them every day. And I just we were walking the dog this summer at the river and I had to go like in an hour to go show a house which I was fine to do but that was where I was like you know what I have this other skill set I'm I'm ready to come back.

Wealth Through Real Estate And Lifestyle Design

SPEAKER_02 50:58

But you know it seems easy to say that but the but it's very the average person would have stayed stuck. You know there's this theme that that I see um you and I have had you know the greatest privilege I think um of people trusting us with ex with with their chapters of their lives. We we sit in front of people we sit at their kitchen tables their dining room tables and we get to hear it all and a lot of times you know the folks that we encounter are stuck. Yeah they're stuck they're stuck emotionally they're stuck mentally they're stuck financially yeah um but you and I don't have that that's we always have that it's figure out you not happy we're gonna figure out how to be happy I think it's more than just a walk you know it's a this is the feeling I'm having this is the way that I'm live I'm not living my life the way I want to live it and then the big step is the action. So what are you gonna do about it? Right.

SPEAKER_00 52:08

Yeah I don't know I mean you know you haven't been divorced you haven't had like a major life decision like that but I think anyone that has catapulted themselves into something else there's been some major life disruptor I think yeah could be um and when you have lost it all you're like whatever um but no I mean you're it's the same way and I and I think we've also went back to and I I think most real estate agents can say this is once you've owned your own business you you kind of feel invincible like you could do anything. That's how I felt after I had Anders. Yeah well yeah yeah I had some morphine so I felt pretty great. But um yeah so I think in I think a lot of agents do feel like they can start other businesses because they're not they're not so afraid of failure I think the you know the failure's the secret ingredient. Well you're failing all the time. Yeah so you know there's nothing to be afraid of it's not that scary. Well because rejection is part of the normal day-to-day of what of what we do right in sales and tell me no it's just one step closer to yes yeah and I think um it's that that like you fall down you get back up it's that like that keep the momentum going keep pulling yourself back up and I think it but it takes a it takes a while and I think it takes a very certain type of person to get back up on the horse every time after you've been kicked off I don't have a choice same and I think that's the big one you and I talk about a lot like there's no fallback plan. No like it's me. Yeah and so when you don't have that choice and you don't have that parachute to fall back it's you just have to keep going.

SPEAKER_02 54:11

Yeah I would agree with that a hundred percent I think the reason I haven't now I've tried a lot of things in real estate um of which I'm grateful for the fact that I tried uh and and was very fulfilled. I mean one of the biggest things I did was uh go into management yeah which I never would have done without your I don't know if you remember you and Billy standing in mom and dad's house saying you should apply for the job. Yeah I remember calling you yes and I and I did um and it was a a phenomenal experience for me to lead a big real estate office. Yeah. Um but but but but um I went back into sales full time after just shy of two years because it's what my family needed me to do.

SPEAKER_00 55:01

And you were miserable in a certain capacity.

SPEAKER_02 55:04

And I had to make a change. And your leadership wasn't good. Right. So a change was coming a change was going to happen. Um you know when you work for yourself for so long you're almost I think I'm ruined in some ways. When someone tries to tell you what to do you're like that's not gonna work out. Okay. Yes sit down.

SPEAKER_00 55:23

Other than my clients right well that's different because I work for my clients um it's a it's yeah we don't clock in and clock out.

Community Impact, Growth Circles, And Next Moves

SPEAKER_02 55:32

No there's none of that there's I don't even know if there's a clock out but yeah but I'm also not somebody that um so I don't know if I I've had a backup plan either. It's just always been you work. I work I enjoy what I do I am fully fulfilled by helping people there is no doubt um it is not all sunshine and rainbows however no and it is most of the time when my phone is ringing the truth is it's a problem.

SPEAKER_00 56:04

Oh it's a contractor saying they didn't get the freaking work done just let you know I've had a week with contractors. Josh has I kind of handed off Perloc to him just because I had a lot going on and I said hey if you want to handle it and he's got it he got a little yeah that we're supposed to be closing on Monday and um he's had a little taste of contractors. And he's like y'all don't charge enough and I said I agree. I said listing agents that are dealing with contract management sh should should get paid five percent themselves.

SPEAKER_02 56:40

It's a different it's a different it's an additional role correct that is being fulfilled. So what's one trip someone should take your big traveler oh gosh I saw that on there and I'm like what's the what's what's your biggie that I want to do it doesn't have to be it can can be what you want to do what you think someone shouldn't miss.

SPEAKER_00 57:04

France I want to live in France so that's just gonna be my answer. It's like south of France like on that Paris I'm sure I've never been but I'm sure is fabulous but I I am a now that I'm a deltavillion you can take me to the country now. I like to be somewhere that's you know beautiful the food's amazing it has to be a place that has amazing food so I would say France.

SPEAKER_02 57:31

Dream dinner dream dinner party menu what's on there what's the appetizer the main and the dessert Casey is a huge foodie if you if you uh come to Richmond or you are a Richmonder she will know where to eat and what to order.

SPEAKER_00 57:49

But if you were throwing a dinner party what's the menu you're having oh my god it has something to begin with has to be with caviar I mean I think caviar was stuck out some sort of caviar dish even if it's like a delicious deviled egg with caviar on it something amazing I don't know the main some sort of even if it's a chicken like a French cooked yeah I was waiting for the French to come out something I don't know. What's for dessert cheesecake probably yeah or cheese can be both we just opened our last um package of um French cheese that got delivered from brand was this a monthly yeah Josh got it for me for my birthday it was three months so I got my last one that's disappointing to it we should do this every we should do this every month what do you think your edge is is in lending I mean it's obvious I I've been in both roles so it's it's easy because the communication on with all the parties I understand every aspect of it so I think that's my edge where um and I did that in real estate like just trying to talk to agents like hey this is what the lender's going through right now. You know everyone thinks it's one person on the lending side no there's about 50 hands in the pot. So I think just understanding every aspect of it is definitely the edge and helping people understand and being able to communicate that with clients.

SPEAKER_02 59:25

Why movement mortgage? Well big loaded question.

SPEAKER_00 59:30

Yeah I mean my husband is a market leader there. Yes but number but but the biggest thing is um and it's our from our childhood of giving back they believe in giving back so much it is one of the biggest reasons and what we want to do with our lives is figure out a way to give back I've taken mission trips with them we help um with local charities they are just it's very fulfilling to know that the work I'm doing is going to give back to the community in in like huge real ways. It's not just some BS like we're gonna give$500 you know they it they do it and when you get involved with movement you are involved you get to see it face to face. Yeah there's nothing like feeling like you are making a difference that is it that's the next step that's the big step I think in all of our lives is the impact um where do you want to make the biggest impact in your life like when you die like what does that look like to other people what what have you done?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:40

And that's where that one I mission I I find um you know I'm still certainly in growth mode with business but significance impact just the word that you're choosing um I think is just semantics. It depends you know it is about something much larger than us.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:01

So what are you unfolding onto next? What's what's next on it?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:06

The impact piece um you know we really do want to focus on how Josh and I as a unit can be impactful in the in the community. He just put out his um one of his goals is to to positively impact 500 loan officers. I saw that you know even if just to help them educational wise so I'm working on what that is for me um and so that's a it's a growth piece. It's really fun listening to more podcasts and and really just um surrounding yourself with people that have the same mindset. And only surrounding yourself. I mean that's been a huge one for us. And it changes your whole perspective in life. You get in rooms with people that are smarter than you get in rooms with people that are doing better things than you and it is infectious. I totally agree I think you know listening to podcasts it's like it's you do have you do have access to some incredible thinkers and people changing literally changing the world and the people around them just one person at a time so what's one brave move that someone could make this week if they're starting over if they're opening a new closing a chapter and creating a new one um I would say really asking yourself honest questions and answering honestly you know if you're starting over from a bad relationship or a bad job what is it that drives you? What is it that you know you just have to look at yourself because it all starts with you and you've got to be happy with yourself. So if there's something you're not happy with be honest and say you know what I don't really like that part of me. That you gotta figure that out before you can start working on it.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:04

So what do you say to the person that says yeah but you have it this easy and I have this and I have this wrong what do you say to that person? Well bullshit and stop comparing and get over that.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:16

See there we go yeah it's you have to stop comparing yourself to there's always gonna be someone with more money there's always gonna be someone that has a better skin who cares?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:29

Who cares?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:29

They need a little David Goggins in their life a little a little hard love. Yeah but that's where you know people that are you know the woe is me I I have no empathy for it and I'm a pretty empathetic person but no one's coming to save you.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:48

Except for yourself that's it that's it that's it you know we're we freefall all the time in uh owning in especially in sales in any sort of capacity where you are not getting a steady income. Yeah you free fall every day.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:07

And I would say you know the biggest thing and if you can do it even just this week is go help someone else. It's the most beautiful thing you can do. Just or if it's a homeless person, stop and give them a dollar. You know, do something because it fills your bucket.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:22

Yes I couldn't agree more it's it's where's the energy coming from yeah there's nothing better I totally agree.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:32

Go help somebody. It's easy go to Starbucks pay for the person behind you it it does something to you it does.

Give To Feel Better And Be A Fountain

SPEAKER_02 1:04:41

Yes when I find that I am having a bad day or struggling that's like it is the best advice that I have ever received is this isn't it's not about you. No go make it about get get yourself the ego off of yourself. Go make an impact on something someone else well I've loved sitting down and talking about it's also hot in here in Zoo. We'll have more uh more more discussions um but if I'll I'll end it on this so I think I might know the answer to it but so if you were writing a book what's the title of this next chapter of this next chapter oh gosh what's on the it might be impact I would say probably impact yeah but it's such a bigger thing than a chapter I don't know that's a good one I think we can say impact.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:46

That's a good one yeah yeah that's where we are I mean yeah that's where we all are we want to at our age pour and I mean we said it in the elevator you know we are both very much givers and we You know, can get annoyed with a lot of people that are takers, but you can't be a giver without a taker. So and I always and I was writing a little book about that, and I called it Fountains and Drains. There's always gonna be a drain. And there's always gonna be a fountain. So be a fountain.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:19

Be a fountain. I try. Thank you for coming on. You're welcome.