Stop Chasing The Lamborghini And Buy The House

A messy start doesn’t disqualify you, it can be the thing that builds you. We’re joined by Josh Klemmer, a leader in the mortgage industry, to talk about what happens when you stop waiting for a perfect moment and start stacking tiny choices that compound over time. His journey runs from surfing and barely surviving school to finding purpose, building teams, and learning what real success feels like when it’s tied to service.

We dig into mission-driven leadership at Movement Mortgage, including the hard-earned shift from chasing results to caring more about the work and the people doing it. Josh shares the mindset that changed how he leads during a tough housing market and mortgage downturn: sometimes the best move is to do it for your team until they can do it themselves. We also talk about authenticity, self-development, and the “get up faster” skill that separates people who grow from people who stall.

The conversation turns practical for buyers and professionals alike: AI in mortgage lending, why relationships still matter, and how to think like a long-term planner instead of a one-time transaction. We unpack first-time homebuyer realities, the sacrifices that make homeownership possible, and why financial literacy and a clear plan can turn a stressful goal into a doable timeline. We close with the perspective Josh gained from giving-back travel and the conviction of being “not for sale” when your work is rooted in meaning.

If you got something from this, subscribe, share it with a friend who needs a reset, and leave a review so more people can find the show.

Transcript

Welcome And Why Lives Unfold

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Kristen Krupp, welcome to Unfolding with KK. For over 20 years, I have sat across from dining room and kitchen room tables with clients, hundreds and hundreds of people. And over the years, I have learned so many lessons as to how people's lives unfold. It was changing me client by client as I met different people. And I wanted to share the stories that I have learned throughout my career and my life. Welcome to Unfolding. I'm so excited to talk to you about uh life uh and I guess the way it all unfolds truly. You know, when I was driving over here, I was thinking about it. I'm like, you know, some people may think, like, oh, Kristen, you're interviewing your family to get started and what have you, but I've known who you are for 20 years.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Yeah, that's true.

From Surfing To A Career Pivot

SPEAKER_00 0:52

And um, even if you were not married to my sister truly, after you know, really getting to know you and hearing your passion behind what you do for a living, you strike me as someone, Josh, who is so aligned with your purpose, you're very clear on what you're doing, and um, I think a lot of us are kind of floundering and we're searching for the meaning, like what is this all about? Oh gosh, all of us. Yeah, yes, none of us are polished in it, but but I think it would uh be kind of uh a great start to say you didn't start off, you know, you're the man kind of behind the movement here in you're the market leader for movement mortgage. Um you are you know, you guys are clearly doing amazing things, but you didn't start off in mortgages.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

You were a teacher. You went and got your degree in teaching.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

I did. Well, I actually I didn't.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

So Okay, tell us the journey, how you got what you wanted to do.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Yeah, my mom, uh special education teacher. Yeah, uh, my stepdad was a teacher, and uh uh the it's funny to think that I aligned and have purpose in things now, and I think about my whole life like I had I had no until one year ago, I had no idea what the hell I was doing or how to say what I wanted to do. But you look back and you realize, oh my gosh, those whole 20 years got me to the place where I had that aha moment. Like now I'm putting it all together and I can say it succinctly, and and now I have more passion because I actually can follow that. So I wanted to be a teacher like mom because guess what we did during the summers?

SPEAKER_01 2:40

What?

SPEAKER_02 2:41

We went to the beach every day. We had no money.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

Mom's a teacher, yeah. And a single mom for a while before stepdad came in.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

So, what do you do when you don't have any money and you live in Virginia Beach? You go to the beach. Uh, so I got to surf, and that turned into long hair in high school and college, and I she said, Look, son, you can teach, but you're gonna need a bartending job in the summer to make ends meet. I didn't care. I thought, how cool you work nine months out of the year, surf for three months, work at a bar, make extra money. That's the deal.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

Um, and it didn't actually work out that way. About my sophomore year in high school, I stopped really going to school.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Hanging out, being a fool, being a teenager.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

Um, I would go to my first class because I'd already missed 30 days there, and you fail out if you miss 31, and then go surfing, and then come back for my sixth class, because I, of course, I was missing the first, and I was coming late, leaving early. Not a good student, graduated with a 1.2 GPA. Everyone threw their hands up, oh my gosh, he made it out of high school. Screwed around for three years working in a deli in Virginia Beach before a buddy called me and said, Look, we've got a home with six bedrooms, five guys are renting currently. Get up here, what are you doing at Radford University? And I said, Gosh, I'm going to community college. Get up here. There's a community college here. And I was scared, and my parents said, We if we're so we don't have a lot of resources, if you do this, it's gonna be hard for us to help you. Thank God I packed up my 1985 Toyota bubble minivan and got to Radford, Virginia.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

Walked, put my hair up in a hat, took my earrings out back then, guys. We wore earrings and had long hair, and walked into food line at the top of the hill at Radford and said, I'm going to need a job. My parents can't help me, and I want to go to a community college here. And they hired me, and I the first year at um New River Community College, I worked 40 hours a week and went to school, and then transferred in a year later, and I was having a blast. I was having more fun going to school than screwing around in Virginia Beach because we all had a lot of fun. But guess what? My roommates got up and went to class too.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

And um I went through that teacher path, and I don't know if it's the second to last semester or what it is, but it on your path, you have to go. I took a class called teaching writing. Part of that is you go to the local school, which happens to be Christiansburg middle school. I chose middle school because mom was a middle school teacher. People think I'm crazy for that. Yeah, turns out I might have been. Turns out I might have been. And these kids were uh, I mean, I'm young, I'm cool, they they're gonna love me. They don't care, and it's a mess. And and it my experience going in, and it wasn't really student teaching, but it was like you get the experience. I went to my counselor or or whomever you go to in college and said, I I need to get out of school, but I don't think I can be a teacher. And so I got a liberal arts degree, and the uh young lady I was dating at the time who ended up marrying her mother was in mortgage, and that's what got me into the mortgage business.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

It's interesting that it's so powerful, the company we keep has a lot of influence.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

All of that, like in those times where you don't even realize who's pushing you along or pulling you along the path to where you're gonna end up is cool.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

The the friend who called you and said, Hey, get up here, what are you doing? Uh do you ever look back and think, what if he hadn't called me?

SPEAKER_02 6:14

Um, yes, that person, Brian, changed my life with a phone call. Uh it's an interesting story there because we don't we we disconnected. He brought me there and then needed me to be, we were best friends in high school.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

And it was like, now you're here, you're gonna do all these things with me. And all the other guys were like, hey Josh, you're cool, I want to hang out too. And there was this odd thing where we kind of disconnected and he graduated much earlier, he was on schedule, but I was not. So I stayed behind and had my own group of friends, and we kind of disconnected and things like that. But I did get to call him much later and say, Hey, I just wanted you to know. Like you changed my life.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

I think sometimes we forget the the power that we can have with each other by just connecting. You know, we I I talk about it on our team. I I'm sure you talk about it with your team, the power of just picking up the phone and saying, How are you doing? and inviting people along on your journey. Do you think he saw something in you? He had to have.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

Yeah, we um all that stuff that I that I was the bad kid, divorced parents, I'm I'm gonna act out.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

I did go with Brian and others to the gifted and talented uh program and all these things, and he's like, probably watched me just throw it all away in high school. And so cool to think that I think he said, What are you doing? You're being a fool. You're being he probably said something else. But let's say you're being a fool. And I thought, well, you know, Bradford I've heard is a lot of fun. So um yeah, it's I did get to call him and say, Man, you changed my life. So that's um you and I get to do that every day if we if we can if we can think about it.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

Yeah, be really mindful. Yeah, I I think two things happen there. You know, you've got someone who saw something in you and called you, and then you were ready to hear that message, which I think is a powerful thing that we we just discount. I think oftentimes we're just looking for like this radical thing to come along to change us, and oftentimes it's not. Uh Oprah kind of I I geek out on a lot of podcasts myself. I know and books and we're gonna geek out here. I like it. Uh so Oprah says that life whispers to you. And um you just gotta be listening. And sometimes you're just sometimes I think sometimes people have to kind of hit me over the head. Sometimes that whispering is lost on me sometimes. But I do think that you know it's interesting to hear that the phone call really kind of moved you along. Josh, what do you think? What was it about surfing that just called to you?

SPEAKER_02 9:06

I tell everybody, um it's odd to be in a leadership position because this is the this is something I have learned about myself and now I can express it. If I don't do something well right away, yeah, I I'm probably not gonna be doing it.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

That's just the human condition.

SPEAKER_02 9:21

Right? Yeah. Uh as a kid, I I my mom takes me to the beach. We're poor. There's a it's uh called an Aussie boogie board. It's orange on the front, white on the bottom. And I would take this, it's the cheapest one. Later I got a mock 77 or something like that. But I could paddle out on this board with the surfers and surf on a foam cheap boogie board. Yeah, but even a body board.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

For Christmas one year, I got fins that you screw into the foam so that you don't just slide down the wave on this this piece of foam. Now you have fins that you screw in through the that keep you in line so you can go down the line of the wave.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

It just came to me. I'm not good at anything else, and I'm not good at that anymore because you that is not like riding a bike. You have I haven't paddled out in years, I would probably die. So I'd like to get back into that. Now there's a wave pool in Virginia Beach, I can go do that. Um, I was good at it. And to have surfers that are 20 years old and you're nine, ten say, dude, you need a surfboard, you're you're good at that. And so, okay, mom, I need a surfboard. So years later we saved up, and I got a hand-me-down surfboard, and something about being out there, like you're riding nature, you're by yourself, it's calm, it's quiet.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

You were not afraid?

SPEAKER_02 10:41

Uh I am now.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

Yeah, it takes my breath away. Like we've been on vacations together. Yeah. And I watch you like get on your board and paddle out, and I'm afraid of the following things: sharks, the waves, and um being stuck in a rip current. And I know my sister and I are very similar in that fear.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Um, I think it says a lot about you that you would get on a boogie board and paddle yourself out at Virginia Beach. I I think kids need um something they're good at.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Like, do you think surfing in any way like gave you self-confidence?

SPEAKER_02 11:25

Yeah, I d I do. And I look back and I go, a lot of that is um the youthful human condition of no fear.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

Trust me, today, even on that huge paddle board standing up, I'm still thinking, well, are there sharks down there? I never really thought that.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Okay, you do think about it? I do think about that makes me feel better.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

I do I I do I wave pool Virginia Beach. It's a and we have a concrete thing where there we I cannot wait to go surf in a place where there are no sharks any about.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

And the risk is low. Uh uh or actually non-existent. Yeah, yeah. So, all right, I think it's so fascinating. So many of probably the folks you and I follow. I the the entire purpose, I think, behind this podcast is truly uh I've had the privilege of being around and being exposed to so many people because of what I do for a living. Yes. And I really started realizing that I was changing as a human being because of who I was exposed to. And I was, you just you want to like kind of shout it from the rooftops. You're like, wait a minute, they can do it. They did it.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Uh you've got to hear their story. You won't believe what they have overcome. And it felt kind of selfish that I had all of this kind of knowledge. When I think we're in a world that wants to really talk about and kind of hang up on division. Um I think we're more we have a lot more in common than we do. You know.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

Our differences are DNA, if you just take it as human beings, or we're 99.99 something percent the same exact thing. It's the tiniest bit that makes us different. Isn't that wild?

SPEAKER_00 13:12

It's wild. And I'm, you know, certainly don't have rose-colored glasses on and don't want to be uh, you know, kind of tone-deaf to the fact that I've lived a very different life um from other folks, and I certainly know that I have had a lot of gifts along the way. But there's been a lot of failure. There's been a lot of uh, there's been a winding journey to even be sitting here, and I'm nowhere near done. And I know you're not either. Um but something about you know, you work at an organization that I want to have you talk about. You came in and kind of set our whole team on fire the way that you talked about what you're doing. And I don't want to put words in your mouth.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

But how important is it to you to because you could you could do you could run mortgage teams anywhere. Why movement?

SPEAKER_02 14:16

Uh happenstance to start.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

Yes. Walk us through it.

SPEAKER_02 14:21

We would like so many things in life, we needed a place to go, or uh, you know, the place we were working wasn't working for us. And um a relationship with a real estate company turned into this opportunity with movement because New American, which became movement, New American Mortgage, not funding, um, their goal was to talk to all the successful real estate companies they could and say you should partner with us because we do it better, and here's why. And I happened to have a relationship with the real estate company who said there's this crazy guy at New American Mortgage that keeps calling me and saying you have to work with me. And you guys say you're not really happy where you are, so can we move our partnership to this? And we got to speak to Toby Harris and then later Casey Crawford because they were the guys calling these real estate companies. So uh happen stance to start, honestly. That's just the truth.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

That's how it works, though.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

Yeah, and you know, I I'm I do have rose colored glasses, and it's mostly served me well, and then there's been some lessons along that. But you know, my my partner at the time was Ignacio, and so the two of us were sitting down listening to these guys, Toby specifically, and I'm writing down and I'm shaking my head, yes, yes, oh my gosh, and you do this and you want to help people, and you want to save the world, and you want to say this. And Ignacio's like, that's all great. He's got a calculator, and you know, what's what do you charge per loan? And what are we gonna make on the PL? It was a perfect partnership, quite honestly. Right? I'm like, we're gonna do big things. He's like, Well, how much is it gonna cost us?

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

So happenstance to start, and then to watch these guys uh and and and the women and men and and children almost that we brought in through movement university, we were hiring folks who had who were like-minded and and had this goal to watch it come to fruition and to never change it has changed a lot, but the goal and the way we do things has always been the same. Like sometimes you get so big and you're making money or things like that, that like that purpose can get pushed away. Um movement why movement? Because I mean this, and I I get to say this to recruiters. I'll sit down with anybody now. That's another thing we can talk about. I learned I should talk to people, even if I'm never going to work with them. In my mind, I should sit down and say, How can I help you? or what I can learn something from your organization. But I get to tell everybody who says, What you you know, come talk to us at XYZ Mortgage Company. I go, Okay, how are you saving the world? You could give me millions of dollars to come run your whatever, but I'm not gonna feel the same way. Yeah, I'm not, and we've had so many folks leave my team for great opportunities. I'm gonna be the president of this company, I'm going to have an opportunity with this builder six months, two weeks, uh, four years later, they come back and they go, I wasn't proud to wear that t-shirt, that sweatshirt. That it meant something to be at movement, and not there's 500 things we do at movement, but the idea these days that we're building schools for kids who wouldn't get a good education, making them feel loved, educating them better, keeping them out of trouble, we're changing the world, right? Our efforts mean something. And so that always meant something to me, but to actually do it, to actually do it, you would say, I would say 20 years ago, 30 years ago, of course I want to give back. Your dad's a great example. Casey always talks about that. My Casey, not Casey Crawford. Her sister.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

It's a little complicated.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

Um in 2016, Toby Harris said, I want you to go to Guatemala.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

Changed my life. Changed my life.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

I've never um done, like when I was uh so chat GPT, just in case y'all want to know. Um when we were preparing for, when I was preparing for sitting down talking with Josh, Josh and I are very passionate about what we do for a living.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

Yeah, I'm getting emotionally thinking about all the stuff that we get to do.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

Well, and I'm gonna have you talk about it uh if you want to.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

I don't know if I can make it through.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

So that's okay. Um when I was saying, you know, research Josh Clemmer. I mean, you think you know someone and then you do some research on them. I wish you could see some of like the photos that were coming up that were probably pulling off of your social media accounts, off movements, all sorts of stuff, with you all around the world. And internally in my house, uh, I was talking to my husband about it, and he's like, Who do you know who could possibly say that they've been doing things like that? Because I something that always bothers me is that there is the representation of the person that you meet, and then there's the actual person. And you're you are who you are at work, if we're in the Caribbean, if we're at your river house, if we're hanging out. You don't change. And do you recognize how rare that is?

Doing The Inner Work Of Leadership

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Oh, as someone who prides himself for years in sales to say things like, I'm a chameleon, I can get along with everybody. Maybe one day I finally realize I kind of do.

unknown 19:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

It's not it's not changing, it's being. It's being the person who can find something interesting about the person who just said something that's doesn't align with what I believe. Sure. Doesn't mean I have to stand up and fight someone or something, right? And that and that's wonderful of you to say, but that's like everything we talk about, that has been an evolution of like Sure. If you are this person, then be this person. Don't wake up cranky because something foolish happened. When you're telling your team, you can't let the you can sit in the thing that set you back for a little bit, but then we gotta get on with it. So I gotta take my own advice, right? And be that person. It's an evolution.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

There's so much work that goes on behind the scenes and self-development. It is for my personal journey that I am still on very much. It is a daily commitment. I sometimes am reacting to something and I'm like, why am I reacting like that? That's not about I'm taking it personally. It's not about me, it's about the other person.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

And you know, how dare I judge them so quickly? I don't know what's going on in their lives, and that's a mistake. Um and I know that that is a skill that you have worked, I'm sure, very hard to have. How many folks do you lead-ish?

SPEAKER_02 21:13

Yeah, so around 30 on the team in our market, right? Central we call it Central Virginia, so Harrisonburg, Charlottesville, Richmond, and kind of surrounding areas, Fredericksburg. Um right. It's uh we when we can tune into that human nature and know. My initial reaction is like, what a fool, or oh my gosh, who would do that? Because that's how I've thought for so long. But I'm so I'm so much better and faster today at going, wait a minute, that's a that's a built-in thought. That's something you've seen, that's something you've that's not the real you. What's really, to your point, what's really going on in this situation? I'm s I will never lose it'd be amazing if I could lose that initial. Judgy human characteristic.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

I just plan to get better at and faster at removing it.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

Where did this journey of working on yourself come from?

SPEAKER_02 22:13

I have to give it to I I may have gotten here just because I think you and I in our spirit are like, hey, how do I how can I be a better human being? But watching real people do this every day at at my company and around me, and having that same thought that you like that they they can do it. I believe that human being is a good human being and look at what they're doing, and they're not worried about some of the goofy things that I used to, and the stacking up wins or being on top or having this much money or this much stuff.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

And seeing that for real, like for real, I think pushed me to say, I if all I have to do is read a book and surround myself with people like that. And then you step back and go, I started doing that X number of years ago. It's working, it's working for you. I see it in you.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

Right?

unknown 23:08

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

I'm reading the slight edge right now. The slide edge is doing a couple of things, right? The mundane stuff all the time. It's little tiny things. Cool, the kid that didn't go to first bell or sixth bell can do tiny things.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

And then it compound that in 20 years. I'm sitting here with you, and you're like, oh my gosh, you're you do this well. It took forever. I'm slow, I'm a slow learner, but I'm willing to do the tiny little things, right?

SPEAKER_00 23:34

You posted something, and if you don't want to talk about this, it's totally fine. Uh respect it. You posted something about your mom recently that has really stayed with me as a parent. Um and I know that you lost your mom recently. And she do you want to talk about her belief in kind of what she said to you?

SPEAKER_02 24:01

Oh, like to be able to share that and say to somebody, when your kid's being a fool.

unknown 24:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

I mean, like, you you've got to, you she couldn't control that. I could have died literally nine car accidents, three that flipped several times. I was driving in none of them, but I'm still the idiot that kept getting in cars with people that I probably knew weren't the best people to get in cars with. Sure. Just as an example, she could not be there to yank me out of those things. It's just impossible.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

But what she could do is say, Yeah, you've got to stop doing that. And when you do, you're gonna be I you're gonna be great.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Gonna be great.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

That should be the title of the book. It really should be. Like to have the tears come out and say, Mom would say, yeah, you're a fool, you're doing this, you're you're so talented, and you're throwing it all away. But you're gonna be great. You're gonna be great.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

It's a hard thing to think about as a parent. Like when you posted that and you shared all the crazy positions you've put yourself and your mother in. And then because my Anders is 10, yes, and we're entering into the tween years, and I know as uh as a stepdad yourself, we are parenting uh cousins that are very similar.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

And Anders is a human being, and he is going to do all the things human beings do. And you're you're right, it's it's what a gift that your mom gave you to say, because I just in my as an outsider, I just wonder how much planting that did for you. Because do you think in your subconscious you knew you know I'm gonna be great? Yeah, I'm gonna be great.

SPEAKER_02 25:48

You and I get to share that now and say, uh, I I like to take for Casey's sake, she she I I love your sister, my wife's drive.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:58

I get to say, I believe this to be true, and then go look at Donna Karen or um seven other examples I've given her of women specifically who at age 51, 49, 62. You you get to be you get maybe it's Vera Wang that I'm thinking of Donna Karen.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

I don't know, it could be Donna Karen, but I think it's Vera Wang that I'm thinking of specifically.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

And and I could screw up over and over and over again. And then in those screw ups, by the way, there would be a dean's list. And it would prove to me. And then I would have another bat, and then it'd be dean's list. And then it would be he was recording. Yes, it gave me the absolute confidence that, and I want everyone to believe this, whether you're 99, 60, 22, like there's always time to be great. Stop worrying about it now because that's what holds so many people back, is they have a you can set a big goal, but it only comes by making tiny improvements. It never comes people think it's gonna be this day that some revelation happens and all of a sudden you're this human that you want to be. It's work. And it's and it's not even hard work, it's just work. Let's just do it. And so having mom's confidence that I am gonna, I don't have to now. I'm making dumb decisions right now. Maybe I won't anymore, maybe, but I have the time to be great. Um and I just started more people believed in me.

You’re Gonna Be Great Mindset

SPEAKER_00 27:26

I think it's you you said something that kind of just light bulbs clicked on for me. You know, we're always coaching people in our under our care that success doesn't look like this, it's all over. And you know, and and and in childhood it's the same way. It's like, oh, made Dean's list, nothing else stacks up, did something else. But over time, there is hopefully a trajectory that's going in the right direction. And sometimes it looks left, sometimes it looks right.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

But it's a building block. It's life is life just doesn't go in the direction that we think it's always gonna go in.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

And maybe that's sometimes the fun part. If you kind of say, ooh, it what is gonna happen?

SPEAKER_02 28:19

Take the the mishaps and use them well, and that's cliche and failing forward, one of my favorite Maxwell books, right? Uh in the Slight Edge, the guy says um the the if we use failure and success as uh general terms, it's a fine, tiny line and the between consistently trying things and then failing and trying things, it's not giving up is the answer. And and that's all there is to it is we let ourselves down by thinking that uh that's never gonna happen for me. Because you had a setback, and the people who they're not smarter, they're not more talented, they just said, Okay, but I still have to wake up tomorrow and make another phone call or support my teammate and have a good attitude, and again, good, because that's easy. I'm lucky, that comes easily for me, and naturally. Hey, what's going on? How can I help you? Yes, that that's a natural thing. If you do enough of it, you become a person who helps 30 people because, and then what's cool about this that you and I will watch as we grow in our leadership is you start to attract exactly this is what happens, you don't give up, you start to attract exactly the people that you want, and we're in a place in our careers where we get to say, I love you, but I'm gonna love you from afar and check in with you because I don't know that this is a good spot, right? But I but you and I are gonna work really well together and you get to grow in this awesome way. So, yeah, not giving up and having mom's confidence of saying, like, you you can be great in your own way whenever you decide to, like, what a gift that you and I get to give to our teams, too. And I say that to them all the time, like you're already great. Make another phone call.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

No doubt. I was watching, this is not a political statement. I am a very curious human being. I was watching um Michelle Obama's Becoming last night on Netflix. And you know, if you looked at her resume, you know, Ivy Leagues, like you're like, oh well, she's so much smarter than me, she's this, she's that. And she said something that really kind of caught me off guard. She said, you know, I've been at the most important tables and the most important meetings in the world, and I will tell you, they're no smarter. They don't know how they got there either.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

And I think that is such a powerful admittance of the truth.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

Like you have we have in our mind what it would take to be sitting at our dream table, and it's not that. It's something, it's a different skill set. It's the ability to say, it's the willingness to ask for help, it's the willingness to be rejected, and to get up and it's such a skill set. I think I wonder if this is rings true to you. For me, what I have found over 20 years of doing what I get to do, which I love doing for a living.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

And it shows, like that's that's a big part of it.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

Yeah. Yeah. It is a big part of it. I like people.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

I like helping people. But what I know is my secret weapon is I stand up faster when I fall. And I've learned it over time. It used to be like I would get rejected and I would have to wallow in it for a month. And then it maybe b turns into two weeks. And now it still hurts because I am a human being.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

But my reactionary time to stand up is a lot shorter. And if I could give anything to people around me, it's that gift. And I can't.

SPEAKER_02 32:15

That would get them to significance through success and into significance faster than anything you could wave a wand and say, feel it, because it's cool, you can learn something from it, and why you feel rejected. And then I love what you like if you can give that to people and the fact that you got that.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

But you know, and you can, because we've done it.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

Yes.

Leading Through A Brutal Market

SPEAKER_00 32:34

You have for folks listening or watching, you may not know that the real estate market has definitely been uh the amount of homes that are selling every year has definitely been a lot lower for a variety of reasons. Compound that with higher interest rates. And the mortgage industry, the folks, the talent in the mortgage industry have definitely been directly impacted in a very negative way. What has it been like to lead people through periods of loss? And I mean, because you have been in the market truly, if you see you and I step back and think about it, we've been in the market during the highest highs and the lowest lows. For sure. It is a really interesting time to have been in real estate and in mortgage. What has it been like leading over the last couple of years?

SPEAKER_02 33:36

Uh it has been so difficult. I I like that you say when we think about um, I'll just say I don't want to minimize how difficult it has been. Conversely, it's been the best time for leading in my life.

SPEAKER_00 33:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

Which is crazy. But here's the thing, back to what you're saying about getting up faster. I care so much about the outcome because we're taking care of kids because I want to give Allie so much and Casey so much, and we want to travel. I care so much about the outcome. But there's this thing I've been saying, and it's come through this difficult time. Forgive me, what if we just didn't give a shit about the results?

SPEAKER_00 34:21

Oh, I have no filter. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:23

What if we really did and I got now? I start saying people like, I don't give a shit about the results. I don't care if we are the number one market at movement, the number one market in the I care about how we make people feel, I care about how you feel, I care about the work we're doing. So about three years ago, I realized that I had started with my team doing more things and going, I'm doing more things. Why aren't they doing these things that I'm thinking through? Strategically giving them, oh, okay, I'm such a great leader. Look at me. I'm gonna do it with them. I've got an idea, I'm gonna do it with them. Hey, what is that? No one wants to really come and do it with me. Oh, I shake my head a little bit, I'm disappointed in the team. This is where the best two years have come and the toughest market.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

Teach me.

SPEAKER_02 35:04

What if I did it for them? We have this fear with kids, with our team, whatever. Like, you can't do it for them. You can't do it for them.

unknown 35:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

Tell us about do it for them.

SPEAKER_02 35:15

Tell me. Call their clients and say, hey, this is Josh Clemmer, I'm the market leader at Movement, and I am so darn happy that you chose us. How you doing?

SPEAKER_00 35:24

I like it.

SPEAKER_02 35:24

You're who? Yeah, I didn't talk. No, no, no. You worked with Carl. How are you doing? What do you mean? How are you? Thanks for using Movement. Oh, we do love movement. We love Carl, by the way. Um, my niece, it's funny you should call, she wants to buy a don't don't give them the idea, don't ask them to do it with you, do it for them. And then something happens where you're like either you were wrong this whole time and it is really hard and it stinks and they're having a tough time, and you should just get out of this business, or you get to say, like, hey, I just did this, and I'll continue to do it for you. But it would be fun if you did it with me, and then eventually you got good at it, and you just did it because again, alone at movement means a kid gets an education or a backpacker school. So that was the revelation, and the fun part is I'm back in, and my team would tell you that, like, Josh is back in. Yeah, I never gotten an ivory tower, but I certainly rested on some laurels there. Right? Like you get to a place and you're like, it's just kind of doing its thing. So that for me that was the answer is not everything, but if you can, Josh, if it makes sense, can you do it for them? Why don't you just do it for them? And it makes me better lately. Like I'm more in tune, I understand programs better. I can talk about those things now. Or before I'd say, I don't know what a non-warrantable condo would require, or something like that. I'm gonna I'll do it for you for a while.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

It's a trap, I think, sometimes in leadership. And I've learned this the hard way. A lot of times in real estate, the natural course is uh you if you want to own your own brokerage or your own team, you eventually get out of sales and you're just in management. And it's not just in management, management is a full-time job. And what something that I struggled with as an as a practitioner was that I had incredible mentors in the business, but they had lost, I felt like they weren't in the trenches with me, that they were talking about their experience, but today's market felt so different, and it is something that was so attractive to me, and which is where I hang my license with four owners who also practice. Love that, and that's just a different business setup, right? Yes, and so when I walk into their offices and I am having challenges, there's nothing you can't tell them because they're actually in it. And that's the other thing the value that that brings to someone who's out there, especially in a sales organ and a service organization that you and I are both in.

unknown 38:08

Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

It is it and it also weeds out. The other thing, the other real truth is when I am bellyaching, I get called on it, as you just referenced. Uh, I'm doing it. Why can't you do it? Right. And and I'm oh, by the way, and I'm leading 185 other people in and having impact with that. So it does kind of put things in perspective for me.

SPEAKER_02 38:34

Yes. That's a real attribute you bring to the team that quite honestly, no matter how much I dive in, um, I don't originate, haven't in a long time. They will always need a buddy, a partner, what we call um a branch leader or something like that, who who they can go to that's uh a player coach. They're in the game too, right? But it's been fun. There are some on my team, I've I dare to say, that even though I don't originate, I might know something a little better because I had two years ago started. Yeah. But most of them will always have a little feeling like he doesn't really know. But I get street cred for trying to know and being in it with them as much as I can without actually originating myself.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

You know, this is not a podcast about movement mortgage because we're very careful. That's not this is about Josh. Yeah. This is not about movement, but there is something about the way the that y'all move in in a in a transaction. And it's not just there's a there's a couple of things that are very appealing to me as an agent, and that is your mentality behind getting my clients clear to close quickly. It's the way that you communicate with the agent, and it's the passion behind I think that loan officer and what they're doing. I think it it's such an and and let's be really frank too, there's a mentality in a business setup where you all are not selling the mortgages, correct?

SPEAKER_01 40:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

And that gives you a lot more flexibility in in serving the consumers that meet your guidelines. Yes. And that is also a gift that we're given as as an option that a consumer is giving as an option, and so movement is incredibly competitive with their programs. But also, y'all are very quick to say, we that's that's not what we do. Right. And here's who you need to talk to. And it can be a competitor. That's a pretty hefty idea.

SPEAKER_02 40:47

The idea that you had, uh, if I could teach people to get up faster and brush that stuff off, I would say it to uh professionals in real estate and mortgage and probably any sales, know what you do well. And when you don't find someone at an organization who does that you like and will also refer you to in the same fashion, the um scarcity mindset doesn't work. There is plenty of business, and I have these wonderful humans on my team who tell me, I know so-and-so at Atlantic Bay, I know so-and-so at XYZ Bank, I know so and when I can't do it, I call them and see if they can because it's all about the client, which as an agent and a business owner, you see that and go, we should all be working towards our client's best interest. So if we don't have it, if those are the most productive people on my team who give deals away when it makes sense, instead of trying to hold on to everything and find a way to make it work that might hurt a little or have pain or be extended or delayed. That mentality is like one that just grows their business, grows their. I just think it's you know life fulfilling to say there's plenty. If they are better at it, I'm gonna refer you. I trust them.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

It's it is a it is a simple concept. Yes. It's hard in practice to do, to allow a business opportunity to refer to someone else. I think if you embrace it and you believe in it, it actually comes back to you tenfold.

SPEAKER_02 42:14

It's the biblical concept of tenfold.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

It just w it it's almost magic how it happens.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

And that's not why you do it. You know, we're both in an industry where um we've been under a lot of the real estate industry has been under fire. I know the mortgage industry has gone through a lot of reform. Certainly after 2008, tons of things have changed. Um, in case you're listening and you're wondering what went on when our market crashed, mortgage was a big piece of the puzzle. That's right. And real estate is has also certainly gone under some change for probably the good. If if if and I I just want to talk to you about this quickly. So if we are both really truly all about our clients, and it is nothing, so in real estate, it's the agency, right? We work for our client. It is our what the question we must always ask ourselves is in it, is it in our client's best interest? And there's a lot going on. There's there's massive mergers and acquisitions. There is lots of talk about the death of the small brokerage. Um choice is a you could it's really impossible, I think, to argue that choice isn't a great thing for a consumer. You want people to have great choice. Yes. It makes us better, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 43:41

Agreed.

SPEAKER_00 43:42

What do you see? What do you see happening? Are you worried about things like AI? Are you worried about such a good question? Yeah, what are you what are you thinking? How are you talking to your team about this?

SPEAKER_02 43:57

So you're listening to you talk about you know the disappearance. With a small brokerage and these things, and for us, it's and it's been around for a while. Push button get mortgage.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 44:07

Okay, so that came out I don't know when, but we can put something in here that's like it was actually 2000. So that scared the hell out of everybody in our now with AI. Great question. Here's my um approach with the team. And especially somebody thinking about joining the team. But now that I can articulate it better, I want the people who work with me now that I serve to understand. I think if you're on this team with me at Movement Mortgage and probably a lot of other independent mortgage banks, you're in the relationship business.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 44:42

It used to be if you're in mortgage, you're in the relationship business. Because it's a puzzle. You have to won't go down the road of I had to have to two-hole punch in acco fashion.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

Send anyway, so press hard three copies.

SPEAKER_02 44:53

That's precisely stand by the fax machine.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

Yes, that's the world you and I were brought up in.

SPEAKER_02 44:58

Oh my gosh. Um there will be a delineation as we go forward of what type of service do you need to get your home financed? And we are in the side, on the side, in the team, on the team, whereby it is I want someone to explain things to me thoroughly, thoughtfully, and care about the transaction that I'm doing. I want to find a very efficient, effective way to ask that up front to find out, like, again, giving business away. But if all you care about is the lowest rate and you don't care if you close in 90 days with pain and you can't get your person on the phone and you don't know what's going on, that's not us. We're here to do it quickly, to serve our real estate partners, to make sure that our clients, our borrowers, know if they're interested, they can opt into. We believe in making millionaires through home ownership.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:51

We want everyone that works with us to turn around in 10 years, 20 years. Again, I don't care if you're 80, we can do this in 10 or 15 years. You have another million dollars, an extra two million dollars, because we showed you it is the right time seven years later to maybe pull out some equity, and you always wanted that second home, and we looked, and you can afford it if you do a couple of these things or rent it out for two weeks on short term. We want the relationship with you to show you how to be a millionaire.

SPEAKER_00 46:19

Yeah, I watched your video.

SPEAKER_02 46:20

Right?

SPEAKER_00 46:21

Yeah, it's fascinating and it's exciting. I think people need hope and a plan.

SPEAKER_01 46:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 46:29

And that is what I think, you know, unfortunately or fortunately, um my industry, which is your industry too, uh, is glamorized by expensive cars. Uh this is how many millions I sold. Me, me, me, me. Me too. I've done it all.

SPEAKER_02 46:51

I did that.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

I've done it all. Go. If you want to go back and edit my social media, you believe me, you will have a field day saying, huh, you're saying you don't do it, but you did. Yes, I did. Because I didn't know better. Now I do. I'm growing as a human and as a leader, and it's not about that. And the quickest way to grow is to just do exactly what you're saying, is that to invest in that relationship. I don't want to be somebody's real estate agent just for a transaction. Sometimes that's what people want, and I will honor that. But what I really want to be is part of your inner financial decision making. And I want to be a resource. And I think that's why you and I are so like-minded that if you call me 15, 20 times a year to ask me what you should be doing or thinking about it, your financial investment, I know that's I've done my job.

SPEAKER_02 47:47

Correct. That's so cool. That's a good way to frame it, too.

SPEAKER_00 47:49

It's a well, that's not mine, it's borrowed. You know, but that's coming straight to it. I can think of mine as borrowed. Me too. That's straight, that's Brian Buffini. Yeah. Saying that, you know, our goal of working by referral is really to be on someone's inner financial circle. I knew I had a pivotal moment last year, and I wonder, I'm sure you've got examples of this, where a dear client of mine uh experienced the loss of a parent very sudden. And I was instantly, he was not calling me about real estate. He was asking what to do. And that's that's what this is about. Amen. That's what this is about.

SPEAKER_02 48:33

Knowing that means that you no longer fear the um cheaper brokerage, the short fix, the this and that. I I want to celebrate that there are great options. There's there's a local lender around town that I tell people if I were refinancing, I might consider them because I don't care when I close, and they've got really competitive rates. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 48:55

That's the transparent answer, honest answer.

SPEAKER_02 48:57

Just the truth. But if you want someone to hold your hand through the refinance, care about you, and then follow up with you about some other opportunities down the road, that's who we are. Um it frees you up, it gives you the power to say, I expect there to be, I love what you said, choices for the consumer just can only be a good thing. So taking that and saying, you might want to consider this, you just said all you care about is the rate. You you I'll honor it. But that's not who we are. So if it feels kind of clunky, it's because we're not set up for the this is all I care about. Here's who we are. And you don't fear the competitor who who offers that service. Like you pull in to get a Lamborghini, you show up at the next place, and they've got a Dotson that's an 82. I the cars I used to drive as a kid.

SPEAKER_00 49:42

Right, me too.

SPEAKER_02 49:43

Like they all have four wheels. Yeah, they're different things. You can't be mad at the people selling Volkswagens versus Lamborghinis or whatever. They're just different. Different stuff.

SPEAKER_00 49:51

That uh mindset came from a client of mine. See, this is all about relationships, as as you and I uh I'm sure can relate to each other on this. Came from a uh an incredibly talented client I have that's an attorney. And I'm who was went on walks with me, you know who you are, and uh was a really great sounding board for me when I was uh volunteering um at the association during our massive uh change in compensation structure. And she told me you need to buy these three books on antitrust and you need to stop and think about what's good for the consumer. And so I was not in a state of panic. I tend to not allow myself to get there, that's just with age and wisdom. But she turned something that I was afraid of on its heels, and she made me think about it better. And in a lot of ways, the change that has happened has made my business so much better. Because transparency for the consumer is a gorgeous thing, and it's what I believe in. But I was just it was being sold to me as drama, drama, drama, and people were thought the sky was falling. So I want to ask you about this too. So that's so cool.

SPEAKER_02 51:12

Kudos to that person who helped you through that. Um, and I might be calling you too sometimes because we need someone to say, hey, you think about this side of it.

SPEAKER_00 51:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 51:20

I love having that.

SPEAKER_00 51:22

She's an attorney, she environmental attorney. She has she's an expert in all sorts of of legal areas. And she was just so wise enough to kind of grab me and say, you know, she takes courage to tell someone things they don't want to hear.

SPEAKER_02 51:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:40

Right? It does. That's a true friend.

SPEAKER_02 51:42

I'm still working on that one.

A Real Plan For Homeownership

SPEAKER_00 51:43

Me too. I really do struggle with that. Josh, the average age of a first-time home buyer is 40 years old.

SPEAKER_02 51:50

Yes, can you believe that?

SPEAKER_00 51:51

Is probably the worst stat I have heard.

SPEAKER_02 51:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 51:54

However, I am definitely got rose-colored glasses on here. I see hope. I see opportunity. Because it's also I think there's a couple of things here I want to ask you about. Every generation has a win different window and a different hurdle that they have to overcome to get into homeownership, if that's their goal. I think about my grandparents who grew up, uh, especially my parent, my mom's parents, who grew up in homes without running water and had, you know, nothing, literally nothing. And they they retired with paid-off homes. My grandfather working three jobs, my grandmother working. Alright, so I've I have that in my mind. Okay, it can be done. No money, no one to help them. So you've got that, and then you also have this incredible um our baby boomer population. There is about to be, and this is so much you just hear these headlines, but there's about to be the largest transfer of wealth in our country's history. What are you see opportunities? Do you see ways that we can help lower that rate or give people hope in order to achieve because my home has definitely been a part of my financial portfolio. It has allowed me getting in the game at 20 something, building a house at 20 something, has given me and Brian so many opportunities. Yes. Talk to me about when you hear that, what do you think?

SPEAKER_02 53:43

Yeah. Uh it's a tough one. No, that's so let's start with the the getting that age down.

SPEAKER_00 53:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 53:49

I will just speak to my experience, and I think this probably will relate to people today too. You talked about your grandparents. When I bought my first home, the car I drove almost broke down every single day, and I didn't have a payment on it.

SPEAKER_01 54:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:06

When I bought my first home, I had a really old cell phone that hardly worked, and I might have to stand in a certain place to do. When I bought my first home, I made a lot of food at home, a lot of peanut butter and jelly. When I bought my first home, I thought through do I really need that pair of running shoes, or am I just being a wuss and I can wear the ones that I've already. When I bought my first home, I was keenly aware of what it could be in two years, three years, seven years. I did some mathematics, and it didn't matter the sacrifices that I was going to make to get it. I had made up my mind that that's what I wanted to do, and I knew the reasons for it. You and I can do a better job of telling somebody that's 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, if you're willing to make some of these sacrifices, even in a very, I don't want to minimize. Inflation is real. Cars are expensive, we need transportation. But if but if you really think and grow rich is a great book to read about this stuff, you can wear the same clothes that you wore last year and don't have to get the new fashion. You can wear your running shoes again, it's not going to kill you. Some people run barefoot. There's things, there are things that we can do. If you realize that your ROI as a first-time homebuyer having to put no money down in the worst, except for two years in the last 50, 3% appreciation on average.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

A first-time buy in five years, you're gonna have a 350% return on investment. It's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 55:35

You should want this with all your heart and be willing to make sacrifices so that you have the same foundation that you and Brian have, that Casey and I have after a divorce, and be and like a huge financial difficulty giving away so much. I still had homes.

SPEAKER_00 55:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:50

And then the market did what it did, and I got to sell them and buy one free and clear. It it's a foundation that gives you freedom on top of all your other smart investments. That if we could educate people sooner and help them make some sacrifices to get in, the best time to buy a home was yesterday. The next best time is today.

SPEAKER_00 56:08

That's it.

SPEAKER_02 56:09

Let's go. We can do it, but I think it comes with sacrifice that you and I were probably more willing to make, especially me growing up poor. Like if I had a roof over my head and a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, like I felt pretty good. And if I had a loaf of bread, then I knew I could have that tomorrow too. I don't want to put everybody in this bucket, but I would look at a lot of credit reports when people come to me and say, How do we piece this together? Yes. And there's a lot of spending that if I held you to it, I bet I could find you$500 a month for just about everybody that you don't realize you're wasting.

SPEAKER_00 56:44

Josh, I I I just I think, you know, we have the luxury of knowing what we know. Right? We know the mathemat the mathematical equation behind the power of home ownership. We it's such a gift. I know you and I are so passionate about educating people. I think about, you know, there's I was at a VAR conference yesterday, which I thought was actually extremely inspiring, and they were talking about you know AI, massive conglomerates coming in, things changing. But the fact remains, we get so focused on that's industry talk. The consumer, it does not impact the consumer. That's right. And you know, in Brian Buffini's bold predictions, he talks about we have hope and we have a plan. And it the two together, and I think that is our responsibility, is to go out and to educate people. I'm I feel like there's never been a time in my entire career where we are more needed, both what you and I do for a living. And it is very tough that an algorithm plugged into a computer could navigate. It may be at some point, but today, in today's world, there's a lot of moving pieces and parts. And uh it all starts with you, with mortgages, getting a loan. And I do think that there is a path forward. It may not be um it may be a three-year plan. It might not be a six-month plan. That's right. But the key is for you to get with a financial, with a mortgage loan officer now, and to sit down and to create a plan.

SPEAKER_02 58:42

That's like going to therapy, be vulnerable, get ready to open old wounds through your finances. Let us look and love you and share with you. Here's some opportunities to make some savings, and in three years you might have X dollars. Again, the programs that are out there now, without getting into details, most people can get into a home as a first-time home buyer and we can find a way. They don't really need to even use the money that they have. We want them to keep that for reserves. The water heater goes, things happen when you own homes, you know, stuff like that. But uh, I love the idea if it's a six-month plan or an eight-year plan. If we can get you there, you're going to be glad you got there.

SPEAKER_01 59:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 59:18

Um, we'll help you hold it and get appreciation that way. We'll help you tap into it down the road when it makes sense to maybe think about your investment portfolio or things of that nature. But it starts with that first brick of just home ownership. That foundation has changed our lives. And and everybody I know, you know, the stat is 44 times. So homeowners in America are worth 44 times more than renters. That's$10,000 net worth for renters on average and$440,000 in net worth for people who own a home. What? Let us help you get in there. Yes. Don't feel bad that you're not yet.

SPEAKER_00 59:58

It is um, I think people hear it, and I think they it because it can be an overwhelming process, but really, truly, it's just it's following a plan. It's like losing weight, right? In working out. It's like you don't see it overnight, but there is a plan. This is what you do. Um, obviously, we won't go into everything, but um there's so many, there's programs out there. There uh Virginia Housing has an incredible program. I know you're like Kristen, we talked to you guys about this in this lead and you don't listen. But like there's so many amazing things out there for people who qualify who are our firefighters, our teachers, our health care providers. Um, and we've just got we've got to be the ones shouting from the rooftops. This is here. Does this work for you? And not everyone should buy a house. That has never been my mentality.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:00

Agreed. Renting's amazing for a lot of reasons for people in different situations.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:05

Yes, I mean I actually have talked people out of doing moving and buying. That is uh something I believe really in. So I want to just make sure. So movement is, I feel like um we didn't touch on this enough. I I want people to really, you know, when this podcast ends, to understand what is it, what has it meant to you? How has it changed you traveling the world, visiting people that truly need help?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:41

It's cool to have very recently come up with the idea that I don't really care about the results because the process, the journey, the work we put in is so much more important and so much more enjoyable. I promise that'll take care of itself. What what that's what I get out of this is when you go to Guatemala, Costa Rica, you watch your friends go to Africa, um, Thailand, Vietnam, and see people of all different colors. They they look differently in different areas.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:09

They're all different.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:10

But but they're all happy in very what we would call dire or Spartan circumstances. And so that's what I learned, that's what movement, the gift they gave me. I would never want to bring somebody from these villages to America. They would be miserable. We're too consumed with things, they're not. But we can help them have things that make their lives a little bit better. You've got dirt floors and metal lean twos and people dancing and singing every day. I've gotten a gift from them that, like, I don't care about the result. I don't have to have all this stuff, but I need joy, but I need to enjoy what I'm doing so that I can go back and see my friends over there. You know what they want? They want a hope center to take care of the kids whose mom passed away, whose dad died in the field, who they who's gonna take care of them? There's not enough room here. So we build hope centers. They get a shelter. We're not over there delivering pizza every day or getting them ready for their new car. It's shelter. It's this these tiny things. So that gift is like I come back from these things and I go, it just doesn't matter so much, right? Who can I help? Who can I inspire? Sometimes it's a smile, sometimes it's a check, sometimes it's time, sometimes it's a donation. Um, it has put me in a place where you get over yourself, man. Get over yourself. But people are happy in this world with nothing. Uh how do you help more people feel that way? Right?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:37

So it makes you you're not for sale.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:40

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:41

And it's such an emb a position of it's not just power. I I was for sale for a while in my life. And I'm not for sale anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:56

That's cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:57

I like You're not for sale. That's what came to me when I was listening to you talk about amazing job opportunities that I know continue to probably come to you. But you're not for sale.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:10

It's how about in your personal life? How about have not being for sale? I want to come up with something in addition to that. But like, I am who I am, you get what you get, and I'm I'm good with that, so I don't feel badly if I don't fall into your woes or your because I know people in this world who have dirt floors, eat one hard-boiled egg a day, and they're singing, hallelujah. I love you, but I can't get in your stuff, man. I'm not for sale, and I'm not gonna buy that, I'm not gonna buy that thought anymore. Life is good, the world's good. There's a lot of bad. We don't want to minimize that. But if you can focus on the good and do good, it becomes better.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:55

I I think it's hard to pick a better ending for the podcast than that because it is really that simple. And I I think a lot of suffering is comparing ourselves, our expectations that we have fail us, right? We and I love social media, it's an incredible tool, but that's it, folks, it's a tool. And what's really going on behind the scenes is usually vastly different.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:27

And they don't have social media. They don't have the comparison game, and sometimes maybe that's that's the gift, the joke's on us.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:37

Well said, right? Yeah, it it may very well be. I'd I to have that joy um innately and fundamentally uh is what you and I are working towards, and we finally realize it I'm human. So when I'm not number one, I still go, huh. But I quickly go, but I bet I'm having more fun. I know I'm happier. I know that number one.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:02

You're moving into significance.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:04

Do you feel do you feel that?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:06

Yes, it's a I want my life's goal is now to help. I say, because of in business, you have to kind of put these things. I want to help 500 people in our industry make a greater impact to get into significance like I am, where it's more important to think about how I'm affecting the world than what I have. And you have to get to success first. You've got to know you're gonna eat tomorrow. You've got to know you have shelter. I want to help you get there too. But if you really want to get to a place where someone that's starting on Monday, when we were talking about, she said, I want to teach financial literacy to these single women that I'm always trying to help get into homes. And I said, You're coming to the right place. We'll do the class, we'll fund it. Movement wants you to do that. Like, how cool significance. And you're there too. Like, we we we're gonna do amazing things in that part, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:53

It's an exciting, certainly an exciting uh chapter that I'm witnessing you navigate and lead through. You're just a few years older than me. Yeah, not much. But it's I do feel myself changing, and it's a really cool it's a it's a really cool stage to be in.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:17

For sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:18

Next podcast we'll talk about how to say no.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:20

Okay, how many boards are you on?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:25

But that's a good thing. That's a good thing.

Get Up Faster And Go Anyway

SPEAKER_00 1:07:26

Yeah, I mean it is, yes, it's it it is um there's so many opportunities you have to know where you're having the most impact. Yes. For sure. No doubt in the world. Is there anything else? Anything I didn't cover that you're a little burning to to share?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:42

I just I love let's take your idea, you guys take Kristen's thought. If we could wave a wand for you and let you get over a failure or an embarrassment or whatever more quickly and get back on the horse or stand back up, I think were the words you use. That's your number one pathway to through some success, to significance, is saying that's not that big of a deal. I have a bigger thing ahead, I'm going anyway. I'm a little sick today, I don't have a lot of energy. I'm gonna get up and I'm gonna go anyway. I someone said I'm a fool on social media, I don't care. I'm gonna take the last moment to use your words, let it go faster, get up faster, and you'll the world will just do something amazing for you. I love that you said that.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:27

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:28

Yeah. Josh, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:30

You are uh can y'all see why he's somebody I want to sit down and talk to? Uh I was describing you to someone uh who is coming onto our team as intoxicatingly positive, and you have nothing but growth mindset, and it's a gift to those around you. I hope you can see it.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:49

Working on it all the time. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:52

Thanks for sitting down with us. I can't wait to do it again. Yeah, thanks.