A Master Hairstylist Shows How Trust Creates Confidence

The salon chair is one of the last places left where people still exhale. I’m sitting down with master stylist Tony Miles to unpack why that happens and what it costs and gives back when your job is built on trust, touch, and being close to people’s real lives week after week.

We talk about the unseen side of the service industry: why clients open up once they feel heard and seen, how personal space works, and what it means when a professional might be the only person who physically “touches” someone in a normal, caring way. We also get into boundaries and emotional labor, plus why hair is never just hair. Confidence, identity, pain, and belonging all show up in the mirror, and a great stylist learns to translate what someone wants into what actually works for their face shape, hair type, and life.

Tony shares his career story from West Texas to high-pressure Dallas salons and the leap to London to sharpen his craft, including the mindset shift that comes from walking in without an appointment and asking anyway. From there we widen out to big themes: fear, rejection, work ethic, staying neutral in a divided culture, and choosing relationships that challenge your worldview. We close with hope and action: community examples of giving back, Tony’s dream of a nonprofit cosmetology school that teaches business and communication beyond the licensing test, and a bigger vision of safe spaces for youth to breathe.

Subscribe, share this with someone in the service industry, and leave a review if it hits home. What’s a place in your life where you feel truly seen?

Transcript

Why This Podcast Exists

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Kristen Krupp, welcome to Unfolding with KK. For over 20 years, I have sat across from dining room and kitchen room tables with clients, hundreds and hundreds of people. And over the years, I have learned so many lessons as to how people's lives unfold. It was changing me client by client as I met different people. And I wanted to share the stories that I have learned throughout my career and my life. Welcome to Unfolding. But you're a master stylist.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

You're way more than that. That's just what you do for a living. You're originally from Texas. Yes. And I think we have something really in common that we're both in the service industry. And you've been at it 25, 30 years. 36 years. 36 years. I'm at 21 and I'm like, am I gonna make it?

SPEAKER_02 1:00

Yeah, you get to that uh 20 point, and all of a sudden you're like, wow, where did 15 years ago?

SPEAKER_01 1:06

How did it happen?

SPEAKER_02 1:07

Right.

Service Work As Front Row Seat

SPEAKER_01 1:08

And uh this podcast was um really born out of being in a very intimate seat in people's lives professionally and watching people as their life unfolds, watch the choices they make, the people that they were becoming. And I noticed it was changing me, right? Really observing how people live their lives, the choices they make, the choices they and I've and it's it's been inspiring to me. It's not always uh certainly it's not unicorns and rainbows. Absolutely not. See some really tough stuff. But when I was thinking about, you know, sitting down and talking with you, I see people for, you know, a really concentrated amount of time, and then I'm not in their lives as much anymore, as much as I want to be, because it's just not the transaction closes. Yeah, some people want me to stay in contact, some people don't, and that's fine. But you see people on a very regular basis.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

So you truly watch people's lives unfold.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

It it it's true. Um and that is part of the gift is that you get to make that relationship with someone that it becomes not only transactional, but it um becomes a relationship. It's a it is it's a pretty remarkable thing in in what we do as service industry people to have that um close proximity to a person's life which may have never shared with other people, or um certainly have never had that opportunity to do that, to be vulnerable.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Yeah, uh what is it about sitting in a chair in a salon that opens people that it it opens people's mouths?

SPEAKER_02 3:17

Yeah, I you know, in the years um having done this, um I s it's the same with most of us. And I think in the years that I've been doing this, it's um it's a chance to first be heard and then to be seen. And once you've had that um that comfort level between the two and that trust, then the rest of it comes out. Uh when years ago when I went to a um I went to a leadership training in cosmetology, and the gentleman said something that has stuck with me definitely for the last 25 years. Uh I've been in Richmond 22 years, so it had to be even long. Well, in fact, uh our son will be 28 in March, so that would be what 26 years. And he said a lot of people don't have that opportunity to to just sit for a period of time, but also the other part is to be touched, and so in what I do, of course, it's hands-on. I mean, you're you're either touching their shoulder, of course, you're shampooing their hair, and when you when they have that chance to breathe and to relax, it leaves that opportunity or that space to to be open.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

I guess I never thought about that. So the the number one reason studies show that people choose a real estate agent is because of trust.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

So you're right, when when we come in to have our to have our hair cut, colored, whatever we're doing, we're allowing that person to touch us. Which a lot a lot of times you said something to me a few weeks ago that really kind of stopped me in my tracks. You were like, sometimes I'm the only person that an that touches another person.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

That's such a hard thing for me to hear.

Why People Open Up In Salons

SPEAKER_02 5:18

Yeah, the personal space is such a it's um it's the one thing we have for ourselves that sometimes we can make sure no one else takes. And it it is a taking situation um or a gift or a giving, you know, to say, hey, I trust you, and um and that allowing that person into that personal space um is very important.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

How do you handle you put a lot into your clients? How do you hold space for yourself when we come in as clients and we talk about ourselves, ourselves, ourselves, and we're never asking about you. How do you handle that? That's something I deal with.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

I I'm sure I've I've told you this story too about a client, and I won't name her, even though she may not hear this. But if even so, back in the earliest part of my career, um like really early, 1992, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Are we talking the days of Dallas, Texas?

SPEAKER_02 6:30

Um Dallas, well, actually in Odessa first, and then Dallas.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

Um, she had said whatever I was going through, I was like sharing, sharing, sharing, and I was really talking her ear off. And she turned and looked at me and tapped me and she goes, I'm not really here to listen to your crap. And from that point on, I realized that I was invading a person's space to be more open or just to be, not necessarily in conversation, but just to kind of be present in that moment. And um, so all these years I've spent more time listening and conversating that way. So how do where do I find the space for myself? I think if the person is walks away happy and smiles, that's the most gratifying thing in the world. I mean, for them to walk away and have confidence, that's I mean, you can't put a price on that.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

I don't think you can. Uh when I came to you, oh, how how old is Will? 13? 13? 15. Oh, okay. So I've been seeing you 15 years. Yes. And I came to you, I obviously, well, not for some people wouldn't know this, I was ringlet hair. And you wore a personal referral to me from Meg, who I obviously very much so trust with the referral. And when you have naturally curly hair, having your hair done, there it has to be like kind of the ultimate trust there. For sure. Because the wrong cut or what have you can really um I think be a tragic situation.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

Can be.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

But the hair, hair is such an interesting thing to me, and it and it might sound like a funny little conversation, but for me personally, and I'm sure there's lots of people that will hear this and it resonates with them. It it can represent pain, it can represent confidence, it it kind of runs the gamut, I think, on how you feel about yourself. And like my hair as I went through puberty and went through my young adult life, it was just something that made me look even younger, which was a challenge for me. I didn't really know how to handle it. And in a sales industry, you you really need every tool you can have to have confidence. Right. And that's what you gave me when I came into your care. I mean, it truly is coming into someone's, like, I'm like, here, here I am. Yeah, help me. Fix me. But then it became quickly became it wasn't once I knew you knew how to do hair, which was very, very quick, very evident, it wasn't just about the hair. It just wasn't. And I wonder if you realize that. Do you realize that people come to you for you?

SPEAKER_02 9:40

Um, I think that I realize that people come to me for what I can do with the hair. I mean, obviously they trust that part and they're gonna walk out, you know, feeling hopefully better about themselves.

SPEAKER_03 9:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 9:55

Um but I think there is a transition between, like we talked about, transactional, and then you become relational. Yeah, relational. So uh I I think that the return of a person is probably the best part. Um the conversation when, you know, when you finish the transaction and they go to do it, and there are a lot, you know, there's that quandary of gratuity or whatever, my comment always is, hey, come back. That's the best gratuity you can ever give me. And uh the um because it shows that they trust you and and they enjoy what their experience is, because a lot of it is experience. If you came to, you know, anywhere you go, if this experience just hits you wrong, you're less chance of coming back. So um it does become personal. You know, you build a personal relationship with someone, the trust goes both ways. It's not just from the um client to the stylist, but it's the reverse too. And those are, you know, priceless.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

Oh, yeah. I mean, it's it's like the highlight of my week to know I'm coming. It's I I yes, I go every week. I feel like I am my grandmother, you know, because that generation.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

They came, they did, they did beauty shops uh every Saturday, right? They're coming in to have their hair set for the week. Absolutely. And um, I used to go with my grandmother occasionally to get her hair, and I thought, oh, you go every week. What is, you know, now I am that person. Yeah. And I love it. Tony, what attracted you to getting involved in this industry?

Boundaries And Holding Your Own Space

SPEAKER_02 11:50

Well, it started um How did it all start? Middle school, high school, probably. Um I had my mother too went to the beauty shop every week, and my whole sister and I would go with her. Generation. We would hang out or clean brushes. I mean, uh we so I guess you kind of get you see what that uh culture is about. You know, it's the conversation, it's the people, it's relationships.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Um, and then later, um, during mini oil bust, you know, being from West Texas, um, all of us were gonna have to give up doing something. My mom was gonna stop going to the beauty shop, and I was like, I think I can do it. She's like, What? So it turned out just me curling her hair.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

And um, you know, and it was just something I did for my mom and I knew that I could do. So once high school finished, um college was not exactly the um something that I was equipped to do, but she said, Why don't you just do hair? And I'm like, What? No, I mean I can't imagine that being what I do. Yeah, what I do. And so, you know, it came to it and opportunities opened itself from um Faye Morgan, who um we had gone to the same church, and she offered me a scholarship to she ran the cosmetology program there at Odessa College. And so that's how it started.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

Have you is it a fair judgment to say folks that are in the world of hair are to because to me you're an artist. Did that did that show up for you early on?

SPEAKER_02 13:38

It certainly did. I mean, the um the artistry of what we do is visual, and then you learn the technical part to put with what you see so that you have the right outcome, or that you know how to get from point A to point B. So yeah, it's very artistic, it's very um visual in a lot of ways. So when part of my teaching was scrapbooks from beauty magazines, and you would tear out what you liked, and then you were like, okay, so how do you get there? And we would, you know, literally draw out a path from beginning to end and then do it with our hands and the tools.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

I because when I watch you like mixing color and and the way you cut hair, which I knew we're gonna talk about because there is definitely a it like all things, all careers, it looks easier than it really is, um, which is why I would never ever ever do anything to my own hair. Um because you can't mess this hair up, it's a problem. Um so you went from Odessa, then you went to Dallas, Texas. And for those of you who don't realize, Dallas is a everything is bigger in Texas.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

It is, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

Including, I'm sure, the pressure in the industry, in the hair industry. No doubt. You worked in a very high-end area of the state. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah, in the probably the highest area. What was it like working there? What did you learn about yourself?

SPEAKER_02 15:14

I think probably the most important thing I learned is socioeconomic differences didn't make us different when it came down to the person. Because we still all have the same needs.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:28

It's um it it was a huge realization of how much people do rely on a hairstylist. Coming from West Texas, I mean, people still rely on their hairstylists. I still have relationships with people I've you know dirty from the very beginning. But when you move into an area that is so seriously conscious on what you look like and um how you present yourself, the intensity goes up, and therefore people are and especially in the area like you mentioned in Highland Park, um, that persona is everything, no matter where you go. Taking your kids to soccer, going to the grocery store, to the church or wherever you worship, or just being out um to be noticed in a way that intrigues people visually, um it's pretty remarkable. But yeah, Dallas was very enlightening. I did not realize um the uh importance of what we do until having been there. I worked in um Holland Park Village, uh Mockingbird in Preston at a salon um called Limage. Um in fact he was one of the first spas in Dallas back in the early 90s and um created his own product from France. He was French. And um, you know, those people really thrived on that. They wanted that to be able to talk about. But the people were very interesting, but their issues were no different or their life situations were really not any different from anything I experienced before, just in a higher priced area. So yeah, I mean it was great. Dallas really opened my eyes more to what we could do.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Yeah, right, because I'm sure there's a man there's many reasons why that would be the case. There's a bigger I don't want to put words in your mouth, but the way people present themselves was of more importance to them, which means pe when people are willing to invest more in themselves, it does give you the opportunity to explore what else, what other products, what other techniques could you be doing to help them achieve what they're looking for. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

Absolutely. It w it was more important to them. It became more expectation and not only in where they were, but what you could do.

Hair As Identity And Confidence

SPEAKER_01 18:05

Yeah. I don't come from that world. And nor do I. And I and it's not a judgment, right? It's just it's just a it's a fact. And I do I I work in with all price ranges in my career. With I work with people. So that's the I work with people and what they are choosing to buy or sell, that it has nothing to do with price range, it's people. But I do I think people get really nervous. Um other folks when I'm training in in the industry, they get nervous about working with you know higher net worth individuals. And they're just the same exact people that you serve no matter the price range. The expectations may be different, but they may not be.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Um, and I have just found that we all put our pants on the exact same way. But but I don't know if that's what you've seen.

SPEAKER_02 19:05

Oh, definitely. Um we we may live in different areas, yeah. Um, but you're right. I mean, we all exist in a in a world in a community that um is about survival and and in different levels of that. And and I think that we put those things upon ourselves to I think we put certain things in front of us that seem more important than others. And when you move into, especially in our business, into a higher priced or a more expectation type uh market, um, it becomes more intense. I mean it certainly is. I think when you brought up the concern about who you work with or or not who you work with, but working in a higher end or higher priced situation, the expectation level does increase for sure.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

Yes. And I wonder if that is based upon uh what I have what I have observed through my practice is a lot of it is because people sometimes it's because people have really walked through, they've they've clawed and they've worked to get to where they are, and so they they put in all the effort possible to get the results they have, and they want that of people around them.

SPEAKER_03 20:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

And there's also some folks that perhaps are more, you know, entitled or what how I don't know what word people want to use. But I think it's easy to jump to the entitlement when perhaps it's really not taking the time to get to know the person and understanding what it is. I think we all still have fear, fear of being not accepted, fear of being judged.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

That's exactly what I was thinking when you were talking is the word fear. Um, because now that you've gotten to a certain situation, the fear of feeling less than becomes stronger, I think. Um fear is a a big thing. I mean, I think that's how we get in certain situations.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

Yes, yes. I I recognize that in myself. So I mean a lot of times the reaction is fear. So you moved to Europe to learn to truly cut hair.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

Yeah, the stylist that I worked with uh in Dallas named Joseph Matheny, um, who's an extremely creative artist. I mean, just he came from the same area I did, same hometown. And he had said if you really want to learn to cut hair, you need Go to London. And so I had spoken with a client named Karen King and said, you know, that's what he said. And she offered me the opportunity. And so I took it. And so I think even more in those experiences allowed me to know that what we do is global.

SPEAKER_03 22:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

And the communication of the visual communication between a hairstylist and a person has no language barrier. And that was the biggest part that I took away from it. Yes, I learned amazing techniques, um, and and color techniques and just being around people, first how small the world is, to um how important what I do as a career is.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

I know you're glossing over this, but it's okay. I'm gonna make you come back to this if you if you'll allow me. Um all of these steps from Odessa to Dallas to London, it's not like the doors were just opened for you. That's not how you got into that salon at all in London. How did you how did you get the chance?

SPEAKER_02 23:12

Well, I was actually had had a very small portfolio with me.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:16

And um, because I didn't know. I mean, I was just taking a chance. I had no appointment, I was just going into different places, studios to talk to other hairstylists just to see what it was all about. And so I had had a conversation with um a gentleman, and he had said um he looked at my portfolio quickly, and at first was just the manager, and it turned out to be the owner, and he was like, you know what, not a lot of people come up off the street in that confidence and saying. So it was doors open, but you have to put yourself out there. And um the confidence in my training prior to and also my ability is how that all happened.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

You were not afraid, you know, when we're when you're talking, when you hear people talking about um I, you know, complaining I didn't have the opportunities, or I can't do this, or I'm I I won't do this. Right. That is just not the way the world works. You do have to have you you've got to go in and ask for what you want. And that is that's why that's why I'm so fascinated by people's stories, because it's this common theme that you see with people. It's so easy for us to say, well, they are lucky, they're more talented, they're this, they're that. But when you really get to know the story, yes, some of that does weave into that into that storyline, but oftentimes it's no, I I got rejected over and over and over again, and I just wouldn't give up.

SPEAKER_02 25:04

Yeah.

From West Texas To Cosmetology

SPEAKER_01 25:04

And I mean you your story of London could have been a very different story. No doubt. Also, you could still be in, then there would probably be nothing wrong with it, your life would look very different, but you still could be running a salon in Odessa, Texas.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Had you not made different choices.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

Yeah, totally. I mean, it would have been a whole different um, yeah, it would have been a whole different outcome. I mean, in Odessa, I mean, um, I think the opportunity still would have presented itself.

SPEAKER_03 25:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

Um, just from work ethic and you know, being confident. My tools is what brings me my confidence, and everything outside of that, I didn't have really confidence. So that was like it was my way to um be different. Let's see, how I know so my tools is what gave me the confidence to to be the personified into a different way because I came from a very low uh middle class family, hardworking, of course. Um not a lot of not a lot of dreams, lived very minimal. And so my persona as a hairstylist is what gave me the confidence to not be where I came from, but to be what I wanted, where I wanted to go. And um, yeah, I mean, even when I went to Dallas and worked at Lamage, I did the very same thing. I walked right in there, no appointment, and said, you know, I want to be a hairstylist with your group because I'd seen how cool it was. And they were like, okay, well, we should set up a um an odd not really an audition, but uh, you know, you had let's see what you can do.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

So I went back to Odessa. My friend Amy, you know, I convinced to go and be my model, and I went in there and they just sat and watched me. And, you know, had I not had that training first and then worked really hard at it to go in there, that would have never happened. But yeah, it wasn't, it was never gonna come to me if I didn't step out and say, This is what I want to do.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

And yet we wait.

SPEAKER_02 27:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

As people, and yet we wait, and we hope that we'll get noticed. And it is perhaps and I think that's where a lot of people's frustrations come from, is they don't feel seen, but you're missing the other half of the recipe. You've got to get in and do the work and you know, really fine-tune your craft, and then you've got to go ask for someone to take a chance on you.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

Yeah. It's definitely working through that fear of failure. Yes, and over and over again. Over and over again. I mean, you're you're right. I mean, it's it's it can be on a daily basis, but if you don't put yourself out there, you're never gonna learn or you're never going to get to that next part. Because there is no timeline, I mean, with all of it. It's just putting yourself out there and keep after it.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

I know. That timeline, uh when I look back at and my expectations that I've had over the years, sometimes that it's it's it has not looked anything like I thought it would look. And at the end of sometimes it's been my fault, and sometimes it's been just I was taken in it on a different path, and that's the journey that we're all on. Tony, where where did you who in your family do you think really gave you that who believed in you?

SPEAKER_02 28:52

I think both my parents believed in me. Um yeah, for sure. I think my work ethic came from my mother, who just worked because she knew she had to. Um my creativeness comes from my father's side on the musical, and our art my father was a great drawer.

SPEAKER_03 29:11

Was he?

SPEAKER_02 29:11

Um yeah, he would he loved doing that. And um it was just w what you did with it. I don't I don't think they had or they never presented themselves with the opportunity to to work with those things. And where I was more um curious at this is what I can do, how where can I go from here? And then each step, you know, took it. So I would think both my parents had super confidence. My mother was constantly on edge because I was when I decided I was gonna go to Europe on a whim, literally on a whim, I didn't have a uh a uh passport, and so literally drove all night with my friend Karen King to Houston, Texas to pick it up to drive back to Dallas and tell my mom, hey, I'm going to Europe. She's like, What? Why? When she never even liked to fly. And so when I made that first call from a train station in Rome, she's like, I cannot believe that you're all the way over there. So, you know, um my confidence comes in partly not saying no. Because you're never gonna get a yes if you don't keep trying.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

Um and yeah, I mean, I put myself in the situation and listened to people and um took cues and you know, accepted the opportunity. I guess I lived fearless in a lot of ways. More than I care to um to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

But Yeah, this is not com this is not confessional.

SPEAKER_02 30:57

This is just a whole different setting.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

We I think we all, I think most of us could say, Yeah, I'm really grateful that I did not grow up in the world of uh cameras on cell phones because I am a human true and through and through.

SPEAKER_03 31:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

And there are things that, you know, that happen and that you're especially when I was younger, that I'm grateful is not captured on film for sure. For sure. That's normal. That's that's normal. And I and now raising kids in an environment where everything is documented is a totally different uh podcast that I'm I'm sure I'm I'm not I'm not equipped to lead that conversation. My son is only 10. Tony, what about your grandmother? What did she teach you? She's tough.

SPEAKER_02 31:47

Oh boy. Um my grandmother, a lady June Parkey, uh was a raised in a you know, first settlers out in Lovington, New Mexico, and um traveled by covered wagon to a whole different area and said, This was it, this is what we have to do. So I think part of that is probably generational. Um she was a tough cookie.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

You tell me.

SPEAKER_02 32:14

She's not I've got some great stories. Uh I'll share a few, but um, I think one of the things she was is she I don't think she ever told herself she couldn't. Because I don't think she was ever told she couldn't. Um coming from a farming family and she understood she was very savvy, she was a bookkeeper during the day and a barmaid at night, and you know, had two children, and you know, she lived in an era where you didn't have a choice but to but to work.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

No.

High Expectations In Dallas Salons

SPEAKER_02 32:46

And um, you know, none was not a part of her. You know, she was tough, hardcore, you know, and I think that translated to my mother and both my uncle, and that um there's nothing gonna be left to you, so you gotta work for it, find a job that you love and you can enjoy most days and just keep at it.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

No uh story book being painted for you.

SPEAKER_02 33:15

Oh I think.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

No fairy tale.

SPEAKER_02 33:17

There was no there was no silver lining, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

Sometimes I wonder how much of that consuming that sort of fairy tale painting for folks doesn't come at a cost because it I'm not saying life can't be good and life can't be great, because it can.

SPEAKER_03 33:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:41

But the only road I know is the road that I have driven and paved myself. And it is definitely work involved.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

But there is a do you think she had a pride in her work?

SPEAKER_02 33:55

Oh yeah, for sure. She was very prideful at at what her family had done with very little, I mean, you know, at a time in the late 1800s, to leave a small town to a no-town, and you know, it was you and the land, and you had to make it work. There was there was no thought of failure. It was just procedure and and planting seeds and growing and harvesting and nurturing and and you know, things came from that. I think we've lost a lot of that in a lot of ways through um what we see on TV and you know the big breaks and the um all the things that social media can put in our face is the ultimate success. Um But the hard work, I mean, if you work hard, you can have things, but if you work hard and take it to the next level, you can have something completely different. And being told no is no one should ever tell you no. It's always what can we do different? Or how can I spin this in a way that might work better? Um, because that creates a lot of um self-confidence issues by being told no.

SPEAKER_01 35:15

When I hear you talk about your grandmother in the many, many conversations that you and I have had, I see that uh that thread is very obvious in the way that you work and in the way that you live your life. Do you have balance? Do you believe in balance?

SPEAKER_02 35:38

Um I think it's a great word, and I think much like the seesaw on a playground. I mean, it's either gonna be one way or the other. There's never gonna sit perfectly even. I think the struggle in life is balance. Um but the other part of that is the fear of letting up even a little bit could totally change everything. So in that way the work always has come first.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

But you and I if we don't if we're not serving people, we're not we're not earning. Oh, totally. Yeah, and that is uh I think uh it's a gift and it is a and it's a constant kind of weight from always reminding us you you need to serve, you need to work, it's really important. This is how you provide for yourself and for your family. Right. And so sometimes I know, I mean, you and I talk about this a lot, and we're not complaining about it. That's really the truth. When I'm in your salon, this is not you and me saying, Whoa, whoa, woe is me. Correct. It's just a really common theme that we both have in our lives, that there is no safety net. And I wonder how much that plays into the way you and I show up for our clients, because it it's everything for us.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

Yeah, I think when you realize that there is no fallback, yeah, you do always work your hardest. Yeah. Um I mean, because like you said, I mean, if you don't work, you don't get paid.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

And you've shown that to your son, you know. I mean, you you've m you've you've then modeled that yourself, which I think is a gift to give your kids.

SPEAKER_02 37:37

Yeah, you you know, I was concerned that seeing both his mother and I work so hard at what we do, and that he would be the opposite in saying, ugh, I don't want to do it that hard. I don't want to, you know, just work all that because it doesn't always look fun. No, it does not. But uh it did it did work out, and um Davin has, you know, being in the United States Army like he is and always been passionate about serving his country, yeah, um, was something that he held on to as a small child and and it came into fruition for himself. Not it because of you know, just showing up and signing up. I mean, he really had to jump through things to make it happen. Um and uh the one comment, and I've of course saved all the texts that we've ever texted. Yeah, and I said, I'm so proud of you and and how hard you work. And the comment he made was, I learned it from the best.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

Oh, there's no doubt he hasn't learned it from the best. So he just had a baby. Yeah, he has a little girl. How is it like this is you know, these are the questions I ask. Um obviously, Devin, Devin's wife, like if you were my father-in-law, like the idea of like you being able to do my hair would be so intoxicating. I don't even know what to say. But I get you anyway. Like, how do you think about like when you look at how do you so people are worried when I come into their homes, even as a friend? Um, I'm not there on business.

SPEAKER_03 39:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:23

How do you think people react with you knowing you're a master stylist and they're like, oh, Tony?

SPEAKER_02 39:30

The first comment usually is don't look at my hair, or what would you do differently?

SPEAKER_01 39:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:35

Um, but honestly, I don't, I mean, I of course I notice people's hair, even you know, wherever we go. But I don't ever think about what I want to do different. It's just like, oh, well, that's who they are, or that's what works for them.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

Um so can we like put that out there for people to know like you see people as people?

SPEAKER_02 39:57

Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, and yeah, for sure. I mean, because you can only accept a person for what they give to you at face value. And um I mean no, uh hair is a very important thing. It can totally change everything. And I mean people it's interesting to see how people leave the home sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

Yes, it is. It is interesting, but pass no judgment.

SPEAKER_02 40:26

I mean, they're just you know, like the rest of us, just trying to get done what they they do. But it is interesting. Uh Davin's wife, Claudia, uh, would not come to dinner the first time without having her hair perfectly done.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

That would be a rare.

SPEAKER_02 40:41

And Davin was like, my dad's not gonna say anything. And and I wouldn't have, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 40:45

No, I know you wouldn't have.

SPEAKER_02 40:47

But uh, yeah, it's it's pretty interesting. I think there's that um pressure.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

So I'm just glad it's important to her.

SPEAKER_01 40:57

Does it bother you that people feel that pressured? Do you wish you could like reach through the phone and say, it's just me. Don't worry.

London Lessons In Courage And Craft

SPEAKER_02 41:06

Yeah, I think that I hope that's how I put you know present myself when people come in, you know, to sit in the chair that uh I'm not here to I'm here to give you what your hair can give you in confidence. I mean, that's because you do walk out into the world, and if you have your best foot forward and you feel better about yourself, um that's that's what we do.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

A lot of um something that was so attractive to me in our friendship, is I have a very strong belief that we need to surround ourselves with people that make us think differently, right? That don't just be friends with replicas of yourself.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

Yeah, how boring.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

And I guess I'm attracted like most of us, like it's it's who you are. You and I, like many people, have very different lives.

SPEAKER_03 42:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 42:02

You have exposed me to so many different things to think about, friends you have, folks that are doing amazing things in our communities. How I mean, are you inspired by who you've met?

SPEAKER_02 42:18

Oh my gosh, absolutely. I mean, from people that have from all walks of life, from retired to extremely successful people, uh, people that have worked hard, people that are handicapped, yes, um, people that have different walks of life is is um is really exciting to be a part of. Uh that is one of the greatest gifts in what um we do, you know, in the service industry is that you are able to be around people you may have never ever certainly not ever ran around in circles that they do.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:56

Or certainly never ran around in a circle that I do.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

And yet I it gives us really, if we're very intentional about what we do, which I know you're you are, yes, I can say this, I can definitely say it because I have lived through many years side by side with you. But when we turn on the news and we have all of this negativity coming to us, when we look at ever when we really start consuming this stuff, it can very quickly feel that we are so divided. Do you feel that division?

SPEAKER_02 43:40

Well, especially in today's climate, I think that the division is the division in itself, and I think in whether it's politics or religion, is one the fear of being wrong, or I Being fooled. Um. But I think the I think, you know, you feel that negativity. I try to not avoid necessarily talking about it.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

No, I understand.

SPEAKER_02 44:19

Um to do it at other places. But to be in the studio and that safe place to say whatever you want to do or whatever you want to say is um, I think they need that. I need people need that space to breathe. It's either completely freak out.

SPEAKER_01 44:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 44:36

Or to be, I don't want to talk about it at all. I certainly allow that person to open the conversation. I definitely know before they even come in what that conversation might be. So I've prepared myself to either have comment or just listen.

SPEAKER_01 44:52

And I it's it's so easy. So I I try to remain very neutral. Yes. Because no one has hired me for my political views, my personal views. And then in what I do for a living, we certainly have the code of ethics. We have many protected classes as we should. Yes. And all of that is an of an extreme importance to me. So there is a lot of conversation that I would just never be involved in. Right. Yet when we jump to politics, which is not something that I enjoy talking about, because I enjoy um finding ways we have commonalities versus where we have differences. It's interesting that people never ask. Um I wonder if you've ever seen that. People don't ask what your political views are, they just assume you are aligned with them.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

There's lots of assumption. Yeah. But I see I can see past a blurred line between the two.

SPEAKER_01 45:53

Me too.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

And some people may think that that's that you're just wishy-washy.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

Or no, I don't know. I strongly disagree with that. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 46:04

I think that because of the fear of being wrong or not being right is why people argue instead of trying to see what we have in common. Like you just said, um, if we would just stop and sit and listen more than our mouths flapping about whatever it is we are hardcore about, yeah, that we might learn something.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

Imagine that.

SPEAKER_02 46:28

You know, if we just take a deep breath and be like, this is my concern. I'm angry, disappointed, concerned about my money, or I'm concerned about my place in this world, we might be able to figure some things out.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

But I I do worry that from my perspective, yes, that I may have some rose-colored glasses on. I do recognize that the war the my journey probably gives me a lot of bias. And that is why I want to always remain really curious. That I am not perfect at it. I am not. But that is why it is so important to me to surround myself with people that see the world from a different perspective, not because it's their opinions, but because it is a lived experience.

SPEAKER_02 47:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:25

And that gets more weight with me.

SPEAKER_02 47:28

I totally agree. I don't and too, I don't you shouldn't be judging another person's reality.

SPEAKER_03 47:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:34

Because it's not ours, ours is never gonna be exactly the same. Like you said, we all come from different places and different experiences, and um I think you should kind of see where people are at. And I think if if you allow yourself that opportunity to make sure you're around people that aren't like you, you have no you have no understanding or even come close to understanding why the world does what it does. Or not that we completely understand, but it'd be accepting of that we are different and it'd be okay.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

You are someone that does not have uh you're not somebody that is, if I was on a wrong path of race politics, right? But was on a wrong path or was really had a very distorted view of something, you would figure out a way to tell me, to talk to me. Where does that come from?

SPEAKER_02 48:41

I'm not sure. I think it's just something that I either was born with or I learned, you know, in the family that I was raised in.

SPEAKER_01 48:54

Yeah, and I that's a gift that a friend can give you, and it's the gift of truth.

SPEAKER_02 49:01

Yeah, my question when all those things, when things start spiraling, I'm like, what what is it gonna do to your life with all of this stuff going on?

SPEAKER_00 49:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:11

How is it directly affecting you? And try to, you know, draw back some a little. I mean, we can all spiral, but when you see in a person you've come close to head that direction, there's some to the way that kind of brings back to reset is asking that question, how is it directly affecting you?

SPEAKER_01 49:34

Do you think it comes from your faith?

Work Ethic Without A Safety Net

SPEAKER_02 49:38

I think it comes from my faith and my life experience. Yeah. I've experienced some pretty crazy stuff. And um my internal understanding of something bigger than me is what grounds me. And that even though I've been through that situation, because as long as you're this side of the earth, you have a chance to make it different. Because it's not until then, I mean obviously, um you have that chance to make it different. Nothing is so horrible aside from murder that you can't make a difference, that you can't change, or you can't make it work in a different way. It may seem horrible and it's the end, but it's not.

SPEAKER_01 50:31

You talk to me about friends you have that have a restaurant that is this is something you bring so much to my life, which is why I was excited for you to talk on the podcast. You have you surround yourself with some incredible people, first of all. That I think is something that people don't realize. Yeah. The the tribe you keep is real daggone important. So give give some people some hope. Like talk to us about people that are doing some amazing things right here in our own community that would we would love to help support.

SPEAKER_02 51:10

Yeah, for sure. The um Nafees and Matthew on a place right here in Manchester, moved here from Tennessee.

SPEAKER_03 51:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 51:21

Uh one is in real estate, the other one had been in IT, and felt a desire to be a part of a community to give back to people that didn't have even as much as they did. And so they have a restaurant that is on Hall right there in Manchester called Gold Lion. And they take on their own account, took part of their pro their um profits and put back towards offering free meals to homeless. And the way that they do that is someone will come in and say, Hey, um, can I just get something neat? They're like, Absolutely, here's your menu. Never once said, Yeah, if you'll go to the back door, or sorry, we can't help you. They have a menu set aside that they've under they know that they can afford with what they've set for budget to make sure that people come in and at least have a hot meal.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

When we talk about people getting spiraling, yes, that we get we start spiraling, we're we're really we're we're mass consuming negativity. It's not that it isn't going on, right? And I want to be really careful about that because I know that there are people in communities of people that are certainly facing very real pain and and lack of equality. I that is a I know that is a fact. So I want to be very careful that I am not tone-deaf on that. In the same breath, what I have personally found when I'm having peaks and valleys, but usually the the the deep valleys, um when I chose to stop drinking, when I got off that train, the best way that I could heal myself was to take care of others. And that's what they're doing.

SPEAKER_03 53:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 53:18

And surrounding yourself with people that are willing to face the tough con the tough conversations, right? And one thing about myself that kind of drives me nuts is I'm so sick of talking about it. What are we gonna do about it? I'm like, okay, we've identified the problems, right? We've talked about them till we literally can't even say it out loud anymore. Correct. What are we doing? But you have chosen to hang out with the people that are doing something about it. And that's where I'm do you think it's do you think it's your age? Do you think what do you think it is that's make you stepped into that?

SPEAKER_02 53:53

I think it's the people that I attract in my nature.

SPEAKER_00 53:58

Uh yeah. Um Yeah, I would I would have to agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 54:03

I mean, because even in the vast difference in the socioeconomic folks that I have as clients, I consider them friends.

SPEAKER_01 54:11

Yes, you do have great.

SPEAKER_02 54:12

They are either doing the work through physical activity or they're giving monetarily.

SPEAKER_01 54:19

Yeah, some of them substantial amounts.

SPEAKER_02 54:22

Yes, but I think every little bit helps. I mean you can throw out fifty sunflower seeds in a pile of soil, and there's only gonna be a few that will grow.

SPEAKER_03 54:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:32

And it's always that one if if you get one out of it, it's worth it. If you've touched one person in their life to at least let them I know.

SPEAKER_01 54:44

We talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 54:45

At least let them know that they've been seen. Yes. I mean, that's the greatest gift.

SPEAKER_01 54:53

One thing that you you know, I'm a real mass consumer of self-growth positivity. I really want because I think it seeps in. I think it just it's really important, and then you've got to take it and practice it. Yeah. And I heard, um, and I'm not sure where I heard it, but what can we do to help someone? They were like a an easy, quick thing to do is just smile and give someone eye contact.

SPEAKER_03 55:19

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 55:20

Like, how easy is that? Yeah. But you have a much bigger passion. You have something that I know you're we have you and I have talked about it for a while, and that is creating a school.

SPEAKER_02 55:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 55:35

Can you talk about that?

SPEAKER_02 55:37

Yeah, so um I because of someone like Faye Morgan who gave me that chance to do something that I could really do with my hands and support myself, it is really without having done that, and that one person offering that opportunity to me, I would have never met even close to a third of the people that I've met in my entire life or the life experiences. And through hair is such a powerful tool to allow people a safe space, but also allow the person providing that service an opportunity to provide for themselves and to get that chance to just meet some pretty amazing people. So, with the school itself, I am in the middle of creating not only a place for them to come learn and to get their license to do hair, um, but also a way to for them to see on the business side of it of how to incorporate your creativeness and what you can do with your hair to a successful way to support yourself. So currently, most schools only teach you a test. And I want to teach past that. Yes, you can have the test and license to say you can do hair, but how do you communicate with another person? How important is communication with your eyes? Um, how do you listen and then give them what they do, what they want, or what's gonna help them feel better about themselves. Those are the tools that really are gonna make them really, really successful. And with that, I wanted to make it a nonprofit school so that there are grants and things available for people, even like myself back then, that really was not able to afford going to school, yeah, that opportunity to do that.

SPEAKER_01 57:31

Seems like a simple thing. But it's a big, it's a it's it's it's a heck of a it's a heck of a dream, a beautiful dream that I know you will bring into reality. What can we do to help you?

SPEAKER_02 57:45

Um you know, giving that positive reinforcement that it is the right thing to do is the thing that's going to really continue that pushing forward to make sure that this happens. I had uh put something on written, something on my mirror that said, I was hoping you were gonna talk about it. Something on my mirror that said, um until now, whatever the situation is. And those few words who I'd gotten from John Waggler um set the ball rolling for the school. Because it was really for me to remind myself, you know, when I start saying things are like, yeah, well, I could have, or something negative, I would change those words to say, up until now I did such and such, but from here on I'm going to. And I had an overwhelming response with people that are immediately like, How can we help?

SPEAKER_00 58:42

Yeah.

Staying Neutral In Divided Times

SPEAKER_02 58:43

I mean, it it's it's pretty incredible. So, you know, we're looking at property, we're looking at all the things that set forward written to make sure that it is super successful, that you're able to help people. Of course, starting small and then building from there. But um, yeah, just setting forward encouragement and just being open. If you know of anything that will help it get there quicker, but with sound, you know, sound advice um is all that I ever want. I never have been a great person about asking for help. Um, but um I think if you put it out there, it will, it will definitely happen. You just gotta be open and keep your eyes, you know.

SPEAKER_01 59:35

Well, you're kind of putting it out there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:38

I've yeah, I am because I know that it's so important and I know that it can allow people, much like myself, that opportunity to do things you never probably would have had otherwise.

SPEAKER_01 59:51

There's a great book. I know you've probably heard me talk about acres of diamonds. Yes. And it the the quick cliff notes on it is that we all have these diamonds in our backyard and they're people, and there's there's relationships and connections that you have, and sometimes most of the time you just look out and you see dirt that you don't see. But if you take the time to do the thing that is perhaps one of the hardest things is that is to ask for help, yes, which is something that most of us struggle with, yet most people respond to. The easiest thing that when I'm training uh agents is to say, This is what I honestly say to people. I could really use your help. And it's not me trying to use them. I'm not gonna ask someone that I don't have a I probably take it a little bit too extreme. I'm not saying to do this. I need to make sure there's enough depos I've put enough deposits in the bank to ask the question. But the truth is, most people, once you say, I was want I was hoping you could help me, and I do that when I'm going to make an exchange of something I've purchased, or I can't figure out where to park, or and it's interesting, most people's instant reaction is yes, right, I can help you. Because I think, and that just tells me so much about human the human race. Yes. Most people want to help you. Yet it's like the biggest thing that we have to like admit. Well, I'm I need help. I want to do it on my own. But it's such a joke because nothing that I've done is on my own. It's the people that have believed in me and who've said yes and taken a chance on me. So I'm super proud of you for uh putting it out there. Well because I think it's you have never once said to me, not even I have to like I feel like come at you on this. Which you're gonna love. You are not driven by money at all. You're not driven by it at all. You're driven by helping people. Am I right?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:14

It it is true. I mean, I am I'm driven by money enough to support myself. I know you are, oh yeah. But I think that offering a service to someone in a way that will project them forward, you can't put a price on that.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:35

I mean, and and like you said, I mean, it costs us nothing to smile and say hello.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:40

No, it doesn't.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:41

It it cost us seconds to um to say, you know, I see you.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:51

Um or that I hear you. That's part of the profession too. I hear what you're saying. I what your your thoughts and your feelings are important.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:04

Yeah, because I'll bring you photos of like, oh, I love this. And then I've got to trust you to say it will work for you. It's what will work for your face shape, for your skin tone, for the type of hair you have. And then I've got to be ready to hear it. Right? And then I've got to trust you to deliver that. Yeah. And there's a lot of there is a lot of trust. It sounds so like that's the thing about what the service you provide. It is so much more than hair. It's not just hair. Right. It's something so much bigger.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:45

It's so much bigger.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:46

And it's I have people stop me on the streets today. This is not Tony's hair. This is my. I did this, so please do not start to go. Thank you. But if you did it, it would look ridiculous. Um amazing. But I have people stop me and talk to me about my hair. And I have to be really frank with them and say, it has nothing to do with me. It's Tony, you know, it's and yes, does that feel good? Oh my gosh, absolutely. Who wouldn't want someone to come up to you and say, Your hair is incredible? Who does your hair? Yes. But it's I can see that question is so loaded. You know, that question has typically a lot behind it, and they're wanting to find somebody that they can trust. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:38

It is all about trust. Yes. From people showing up to um a place to eat or to have their hair done, to look for a home, yeah. Um, pick up your coffee.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:53

You know, it is it is a trust that what you ask for, it's gonna be done in a way that you're that you'll like it, or that you know it'll be done good. Uh yeah, I think we need to all work on that.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:10

What are you listening to?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:12

Right now?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:13

Yeah. What are you what are you listening to or reading? How do you keep yourself filled?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:20

I listen to various things. Music is a big part that I listen to, but I would say that of course Brene Brown is something that is, I mean, just incredible in her experiences and how she's able to take her own personal life experiences and share it with everyone and be vulnerable. Um it helps you not feel like you're alone, you're like, I'm the only person going through this right now, which is not true.

Community Help And A Nonprofit School

SPEAKER_01 1:05:50

Sometimes in Tony's salon we listen to podcasts together, which is like I don't even know what to say if that's not happening to you, but I'm sorry. We listen to all sorts of music. You have introduced me to so much music that you have playing in your salon all the time. Um something people might not know about you is you're an incredible singer. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Tony, if you could do anything, if it wasn't what you're doing now, if you could have just waved a magic wand and this is what you are, what would it be?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:28

Gosh. Um I think if I could do anything, it would be to have a safe space for youth to go.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:39

I felt confident that was going to come out of your mouth.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:41

I just I think that's such a vulnerable time, and there's so much, even more than when you and I, or more than I grow up and certainly when you the intensity of that space to just go and be, it's super important. I mean, that uh that escape from crazy life and all these things we assume is so important. Um, I think that would be the most important part. I think that would be wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:06

Would you have benefited from it?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:09

Hands down.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:10

Yeah. And you and I had shielded lives.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:15

And the fact that we didn't have social media, we didn't have Thank God. Oh, we didn't have the it doesn't mean we had it easier. It was just very, very different. And I I wonder how much when I get really caught up in my day-to-day, it's really easy to forget about protecting this human that's in my care, who's in my charge, and making sure he is in a in a space that is a place of growth, not tearing him down.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:50

And I know that there is a lot of pain and a lot. I mean, you just I this the the conversations and the headlines about uh the suicide rate among youth, the bullying, the the loneliness. Gosh, I think and I I see it in my business, the the loneliness in adults. I can't imagine what the loneliness is in the youth.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:16

Yeah. I think there's a lot of uh I think we've we've done several things differently. One is protecting them to the point that if they are in a situation, they don't know how to handle it. Two is whatever situation it was, we're afraid to, you know, rough up the waters because it's not the right thing to do, because of different things that may offend someone else. Uh but I think being real with your children is important, protecting them and letting them know that there are some crazy things going on in the world to not put yourself in that situation or to always be aware of your surroundings, giving them that thought without making them completely f you know wigged out about being in public.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:06

What do you think youth would benefit from the most? I know when I had the farm, that was definitely a conversation that we had.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:14

Yeah. Um what would they benefit with the most?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:21

I do I I love like when I was on the farm, when I was with my animals, especially equines, which I know you have experienced, we're not gonna with donkeys and all that sort of stuff and horses. It gets no, we're gonna um it gets there's a different level of calm that people feel.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:41

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:42

Um and I think there's especially our folks who are kids who never get to experience green grass and fields and but I I wonder if if that doesn't have some sort of truth wrapped up in it with wanting to develop a school. I wonder if some of that, if you could do anything, help youth, and yet you're also building this school program, which also I think historically will help younger folks. Yes. There to me seems to be a commonality there.

Youth Safe Spaces And Closing

SPEAKER_02 1:10:14

Definitely. I mean giving someone the power to feel confident or allowing them the space to feel confident is both in our school, um, in the school I'd like to do that I'm going to develop, and also not only that, but in a space to breathe as well. I think it's a twofer. I think allowing them the confidence or giving them a tool to give them confidence and the power of knowing that they can be self-supportive or do things for themselves without being super reliant on something else, like whatever that might be. I mean, there's so many biases out there, but also that space to breathe. I think it's in it's vitally important when you talked about the farm, having that opportunity to provide nourishment for something else gives you importance, but also being out there also gives you that space to breathe and not feel so um closed in. I think a lot of inner city kids need that.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:22

I think a lot of people, yeah, adults need that too.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:26

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:27

And that's something you provide in on a micro level, that's something you provide in your salon. In terms of safe every day, is a place to breathe. Yeah. I think that is uh that's an excellent way to wrap up. Is there anything else you want to talk about? Anything I didn't hit on that surprised you?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:49

Um no, but um congrats on your success. Oh and being willing to do this um this new journey of a podcast and bringing people in. I think it's very cool. Thanks for letting me be a part of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:06

Thank you for sitting down and being vulnerable with me. I love it. Thank you, Tony.