Unfolding with KK

Designed 2 Sell: The Art and Heart of Home Staging

• Kristin Beran Krupp • Season 1 • Episode 11

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0:00 | 55:12

A house can be perfect on paper and still feel hard to buy. That’s the gap home staging fills, and it’s why we brought on Tammy Wilkerson, CEO and president of Design to Sell, to talk about what actually moves the needle when you’re selling a home in the Richmond, VA real estate market and beyond.

We start with Tammy’s path: the kid who constantly rearranged her bedroom, the middle-child peacemaker who learned to negotiate, and the professional pivot from graduate school in clinical psychology to a demanding family furniture business. From there, she shares how a neighbor’s struggling listing turned into her first staging job, and how that one “yes” grew into a company handling around 175 active stagings and more than 1,200 homes a year.

Then we get practical. Tammy breaks down vacant home staging, why staging is not decorating, and how transitional design helps the most buyers “ski behind the same boat.” We also dig into buyer psychology, listing photos, and the small choices that can cost big money, including a legendary $40,000 refrigerator mistake. You’ll walk away with clear home selling tips you can use immediately: declutter ruthlessly, remove personal photos, fix mismatched light bulbs, and watch your furniture scale so the home, not the stuff, takes center stage.

If you’re preparing to list, investing in presentation, or just curious how pros think about space, listen through to the end for a grounded take on what “home” really means. Subscribe, share with a friend who’s moving, and leave a review with the best staging tip you’ve ever heard.

Designed 2 Sell: designed2sellrva.com

We'd Love Your Feedback

Kristin:

So Tammy, thank you for coming on today.

Tammy:

Oh, so happy to be here.

Kristin:

You and I have known each other, I was trying to think about it, I don't know, it's as long as I think your business has been open.

Tammy:

I think so.

Kristin:

So- Yeah… almost 20 years.

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

And-

Tammy:

20 years this month.

Kristin:

Is it this month?

Tammy:

This month, 20 years.

Kristin:

Congratulations.

Tammy:

Thank you. Thank you.

Kristin:

It's amazing.

Tammy:

You too, right?

Kristin:

Thank you.

Tammy:

Yeah

Kristin:

We're- we'll celebrate 22…

Tammy:

That's crazy…

Kristin:

…in July.

Tammy:

Oh my gosh.

Kristin:

Next month.

Tammy:

Yes.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

That's wild, isn't it? Where did the time go?

Kristin:

It's flown.

Tammy:

It just flew. Yeah.

Kristin:

It's just, it's just…

Tammy:

Here we are…

Kristin:

…kind of evaporated.

Tammy:

…still here.

Kristin:

We are still here. So, for those listening, Tammy Walkerson is the CEO and president of Designed 2 Sell, which is a home staging- it's a staging business. And if you're not familiar with staging, you will be after we're done talking. But- You know, you and I have, I think, a ton in common because we do different things.

Tammy:

Mm-hmm.

Kristin:

But there's a lot of overlap between what we do.

Tammy:

Absolutely.

Kristin:

And we help people.

Tammy:

We do. We help people.

Kristin:

But I'm- before we get into that, I'm- I wanna- I'm curious about, like, your childhood, which we were talking a little bit about before we hit record. So, take me back to your childhood. Were you a little girl that rearranged your bedroom?

Tammy:

Yes, I was definitely a little girl who rearranged my bedroom. I was one of those kids who would drag dressers and queen-sized beds and flip my comforter over. It drove my mother crazy. It really did. But, surprisingly, I was- I was a very creative type little kid, and I would try to wear the clothes that she thought didn't match. And when I wanted to go to college, and- and of course I was going to college, that was their plan all along. They needed me to leave and go to college, so, being one of three daughters, it was time. I had said, "Oh, I can't wait. I'm gonna be an interior designer." And she said, "Oh my gosh, you can't match your clothes." So I started out in psychology, and in fact I have a degree in psychology, and I minored in design, and I even worked on my master's for a little while. But I was the girl who rearranged her furniture. I would have rearranged the whole house if they would have let me, but I definitely rearranged my bedroom.

Kristin:

So were you- were you doing it because you just needed, like, a change? Can you remember, like, what was the… What was, like, drawing you to do that?

Tammy:

I think that that little creative bug was always there…

Kristin:

Yeah

Tammy:

…and that need to change it and make it mine, you know, and just feel- just find an opportunity to express that. I really do. I don't think I was dissatisfied with any of it. It was just like, "I can make this better," you know?

Kristin:

Absolutely.

Tammy:

And we do that today. You know, we still- we go in a house and we see it in our minds in a different way, and we, you know, we make it better.

Kristin:

So you said something, and I know a lot about you 'cause we've worked together for a long time.

Tammy:

We have.

Kristin:

Oftentimes in very stressful situations.

Tammy:

Yeah, yeah.

Kristin:

But I did not know your birth order, that you are the middle.

Tammy:

I'm the middle child. I am.

Kristin:

And you- do you think that has played a role in your life?

Tammy:

Yeah, I think it is. I'm the middle daughter of three girls, and there's about five years between us total. And so my older sister is an attorney, was always the leader, you know, and kind of the smart one, and my younger sister was the cute baby, and I was the creative one, you know, and I was the salesman. I was the negotiator. I was- the middle child's usually the peacemaker- and I was sort of that person. I was always making sure this one was happy and this one was happy, or at least I thought I was anyway. But, yeah, it led me into working in sales and furniture and interior design, and we had an interior design department at our furniture stores back in my beginning days of Tennessee, and then moving to Richmond and being a- starting a staging company.

Kristin:

It's fascinating to me how, like, just something you have no control over, your birth order…

Tammy:

Right.

Kristin:

…can really impact you.

Tammy:

Exactly.

Kristin:

And- in a great way…

Tammy:

yeah.

Kristin:

…in a great way…

Tammy:

Sure.

Kristin:

…and give you skill sets to kinda go on and lead a life with those skills.

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

It's a- it's a really helpful skill in real estate to be a peacekeeper.

Tammy:

I think it is, and, you know, talking about going into some stressful situations…

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

…I do think that's one- it is- sometimes that may be one of my gifts, is that I think I can give people a little bit of a comfort level because I try to listen to what their situation is and figure out how we can help.

Kristin:

Yeah.

Tammy:

And, you know, that's the- that's the answer to really everything we do is, how can I help?

Kristin:

Yes. There's a problem. We know how to solve it.

Tammy:

Solve it, yep.

Kristin:

So you've mentioned that your- so your family owned a furniture company. And it was like a legacy.

Tammy:

It was.

Kristin:

So, tell- tell me about it.

Tammy:

I was gonna say…

Kristin:

Yeah?

Tammy:

Did you know that there was two furniture companies?

Kristin:

No, I did not.

Tammy:

Okay, I'm gonna tell you something new.

Kristin:

Okay.

Tammy:

My mother is the daughter, actually the granddaughter, of furniture store owners in Knoxville, Tennessee.

Kristin:

Okay.

Tammy:

It was called Herbert & Nickle. And it was in an area of town called Lonsdale, right near Lonsdale. Lonsdale, believe it or not, is- if you mix Lonis and Ragsdale together, that was the family lineage of my, of my grandparents. They were, like, the largest landowners in Knox County at the time, or way before. You know, before the time. Both from Virginia.

Kristin:

Really?

Tammy:

How about that? And so at any rate, my adult- my mother grew up with her father working at her mother's father's store, Herbert & Nickle. And my dad is the only child of Ross and Edna Birchfield, who had Ross Furniture in Maryville, Tennessee, just down the road from Knoxville. So, without knowing each other, they were the children of furniture store owners and…

Kristin:

Wow.

Tammy:

…got- ended up meeting and getting married. And so my dad was an attorney out of school, married my mother when she went to Emory & Henry for a year.

Kristin:

Did she?

Tammy:

In Virginia. Yes.

Kristin:

She did.

Tammy:

She's very proud of that.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

She told me to remind- she reminded me of it last night. We were talking about Virginia. And they met and got married, and he was in the Army and was a captain and an attorney, JAG Corps attorney, and then…

Kristin:

Wow.

Tammy:

…moved back to Maryville and he practiced for several years there, even sat juvenile court judge, I think, for a little while, you know, off and on, and had a practice in Tennessee. And then when his dad was, you know, getting a little bit older, he went into the furniture store instead of- and closed his practice. And I remember growing up, you know, going down there and being excited to use the gumball machine, and they had an old-fashioned Coke machine. So I kinda grew up, you know, in and out of the store in that way. But both parents were children of furniture store owners. And it's like America in a lot of industries, like, those mom and pops, you know…

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

…those little businesses are- they're just about gone. You know, they're just about gone. There's mostly big chains now, and it was a special- those were both special places. We had our own accounts, so people could come in and get something and buy it on time and just come in weekly or monthly and make their payment.

Kristin:

Yeah, layaway.

Tammy:

So it was a very big community thing.

Kristin:

Yeah.

Tammy:

Right. No, it wasn't layaway.

Kristin:

It was just-

Tammy:

It was an account, charge account.

Kristin:

You just, oh, you just put-

Tammy:

We delivered it. Yes, ma'am.

Kristin:

You delivered it right away.

Tammy:

Free delivery. Absolutely. And, you know, if you had a good job, you could show your income. You know, where I'm from was a big Alcoa aluminum plant, so that was a lot of our 'trade,' as we called it back then.

Kristin:

Sure.

Tammy:

But in those early days, Kristin, when my grandfather started the furniture store, my grandfather, my dad's dad, they had new- all they had was new and used.

Kristin:

Mm-hmm.

Tammy:

And then this was 1937, so you know the…

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

…climate and the condition…

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

…of our country. If you wanted something new, he would write it down in a book, and when the company salesman came around, he would get it for you. That was the very beginning days of Ross Furniture. He would fix up used furniture and appliances, heaters and different things, and he'd put you on the list for new, because that was so hard to come by…

Kristin:

Sure.

Tammy:

…in those days. Of course, you know, fast-forward into the '70s when my dad came, it was a whole city block. It had been a little, little strip of a- of a building that his dad owned, and it had- and it rented to different businesses. And my grandfather rented a little- a little strip of it, but eventually ended up owning the whole block.

Kristin:

What do you think made- was so attractive to your dad to leave his law practice behind and go into…

Tammy:

I think…

Kristin:

…furniture?

Tammy:

I think that the law and the practice of the law, there can be so many pitfalls. There can be so many, you know, different situations where in a small town your practice is somewhat limited.

Kristin:

Sure.

Tammy:

And it was. You had competition, bigger competition from a bigger city.

Kristin:

Yeah.

Tammy:

And to be honest with you, we were, you know, we were little girls at the time. We were doing, like, gymnastics and joining the swim team, and I think he wanted to be present. And owning your own business, as you know…

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

…gives you, in some ways, a little…

Kristin:

Flexibility.

Tammy:

…some plus. But, he wanted that lifestyle. He wanted to be able to be around, you know, when he needed to be around and close the store at 5:00 and not have to go meet a client, not have to, you know, deal with a big trial or something. So yeah, it was- it was really neat. When I was 13, because I'm Gen X, my mom went to work. My little sister was 10, and we would, you know, we would come home every day till she got home and, you know, be on our own, the three girls. But my mom, it was neat seeing her, you know, transform into a working person, and she kept the books at the furniture store and really helped keep things going once my grandfather was really, really mostly retired. Sure. You know, he would go in every day and read his paper and take the money to the bank, and I think that was his job. And I remember later on my dad being at that position where he would come in, sit at his desk, read the paper, go to the post office box or whatever, and take the bank deposit in. And so, I remember that full circle, so.

Kristin:

That is such a cool piece of, like, your story.

Tammy:

I am very, very, very lucky, very blessed.

Kristin:

When you- when you were that… So, when your dad took over and your parents started working in the industry, would you, like, go- would they let you come in and, like… I would be, like, dying to get my hands on it.

Tammy:

Yeah. I mean, we- I do, I remember being there. It wasn't, at that time you didn't, like, let your kids, you know, would come and hang out. You were children.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

You know.

Kristin:

You had a place.

Tammy:

You didn't- you had a place. But, I do remember the experience of being there and walking the aisles and, you know, being in the back room because in the early days, even back at the time when I was a little kid, we had appliances. You know, there wasn't, like, a big appliance store like there are now. It was a different world back then. We didn't have a mall in our town at that time. So, your furniture store sold appliances, vacuums, wood stoves. I literally remember a wringer washer in our showroom.

Kristin:

In your showroom.

Tammy:

Yeah.'Cause we had people in the mountains who didn't, couldn't- didn't have electricity.

Kristin:

Sure.

Tammy:

Didn't have all the, you know, the running water even maybe. So we had things to cater to, you know, a bigger area, you know, right outside the Smoky Mountains. And, yeah, it's literally almost a general store, but not.

Kristin:

Yeah.

Tammy:

Do you know what I mean? Like, you know.

Kristin:

Yeah, like when we've gone upstate New York, their general stores have like- it's like a general store, slash, a hardware store, slash, a furniture store. It's cool. They have everything in there.

Tammy:

It's something from yesteryear when you think about it, and it wasn't like- we didn't have everything, but we did have a lot of things for your home, so it's interesting.

Kristin:

That makes a lot of sense. So, all right, so you got into graduate school…

Tammy:

Yes.

Kristin:

…for clinical psychology, and you went.

Tammy:

Oh, I went. Yes. Yes. Had a 4.0 and quit.

Kristin:

Why?

Tammy:

I hated it. I hated it. I… my first job was in a state-run hospital. It was an adolescent depression unit, and it made me so sad every day. And children that had just been in a very neglectful or abusive situation were put in a unit in a state hospital like something was wrong with them. And what broke my spirit and really caused me to think, "I can't do this. This is not where I'm supposed to be," was on a Sunday night, a girl who I guess had gotten released, I had- she'd been on my unit- drove to my house.

Kristin:

Oh.

Tammy:

Desperate, desperate for belonging and attention. And I, you know, we did everything we could for her. We, you know, we didn't let her stay. We couldn't do that, but we spent a lot of time, Jeff and I did, talking to her and convinced her to go home and reach out to her parents. And she was from a very wealthy family, and they were just gone all the time, and she was acting out. And so many of the situations there broke my heart, and I thought,"I'm too soft-hearted for this. I can't do this. I will wanna bring every one of them home." And my mother used to say I collected all the strays. I was the one that would bring home a kitty or a dog or a friend who needed a place to stay. And, you know, she said, "You bring home every stray. You just wanna help everybody." And I did. And I- when I was a little girl, I wanted to be a nurse. Funny thing. But, yeah, I just knew I didn't have the emotional ability for the- to keep a professional distance. And, you know, when someone's bleeding and you can sew 'em up, that's one thing, but when there's a psychological issue or an issue at home, you have to be the right kind of person. And I have a whole lot of respect for the folks that are in those fields. I really do. That's… You can't see it, you know?

Kristin:

Yeah.

Tammy:

It's very difficult. So, that wasn't for me. And, I ended up back at the store, but honestly, I didn't know what to do. I had- I had completed a year. I was in my second year of grad school, so I would've been done that year.

Kristin:

Yeah.

Tammy:

I was- I know.

Kristin:

You were real close.

Tammy:

I was real close. My parents were like, "What?" So, but they were at that age- that age, kind of where I am at this point in life, where they were like, "I'd like to travel. We'd like to do something else."

Kristin:

Sure.

Tammy:

And I said, "Hey, hey." And Jeff, my sweet, precious husband, was willing to look at something else, and he couldn't get a promotion there or transfer there. They didn't have anything, so he had to look for a job. And-

Kristin:

So you were not living in town, obviously. You were off at school.

Tammy:

By this time I was married and we'd built a house.

Kristin:

Ooh.

Tammy:

It was a big decision to change, but we did. We did. We just did- we did it. It was the right thing to do. It felt right. I loved being at the store, and I worked there in high school. You asked about working there.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

I was in the distributive education program my senior year, and I left at noon and went to this furniture store, and they let me vacuum. That was what I remember doing. I remember vacuuming. That was the- that was the limit of what they'd let me touch. But, I remember talking to clients and doing, you know…

Kristin:

Yeah.

Tammy:

…a little bit of customers and doing a little bit- a little bit more than that. But mostly that's what I did.

Kristin:

So, how long did you work in the furniture business?

Tammy:

15 years.

Kristin:

Wow.

Tammy:

Yeah. We- when I started it, we had one downtown store, the original store, and it had been remodeled through the years, but it was one city block downtown. And my sister, who'd been an attorney in Florida, 'cause that's where she moved and got- had gotten married and then moved to Florida for about a year. And I made the decision when Mom and Dad were ready to retire, and they asked me to come into the business, and it wasn't four months later and she came too. So, we're both there, and that was great for, like, six months to a year, but we both were like, "We can do more. We can do more." You know.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

Here we are, young…

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

…healthy, energetic. And so, with my dad, who got back kind of re-excited about the business at that point, we bought a former competitor's building out over in the new west end side of our town and they had moved to Knoxville. So, they'd opened up… It was a- it was a faci- it was a former furniture store, and it had been a flower, big flower store for a while, kind of like a- you know, where you put your own fake flowers together and make that kind of thing. It was 25,000 square feet, about the size of a normal Havertys…

Kristin:

Okay.

Tammy:

…Type store, and we bought it. And yeah, we were off to the races then, and we were competing with Knoxville stores. We were doing Knoxville radio, you know, newspaper, television, you know, all that whole thing.

Kristin:

And then y'all sold it, right?

Tammy:

Well, we bought a warehouse.

Kristin:

Okay.

Tammy:

'Cause we had to feed into it. It was all showroom, so we had to…

Kristin:

Sure.

Tammy:

…Feed into it, and we couldn't keep using our downtown facility 'cause while it was one city block, we were doing a bigger volume than that and needed a dock and needed things like that. So, we bought a former skatin' rink. I'm from East Tennessee, that's how you say it, 'skatin' rink,' and made that into our warehouse, which was kind of between the two, and we operated out of that for years. Grew to 25 or 26 employees and two delivery trucks and seven days a week.

Kristin:

Yep.

Tammy:

And 15 years later, I was exhausted.

Kristin:

Yeah.

Tammy:

I loved what I did, but retail is no joke, and I had a child. I had my- my only son.

Kristin:

Yes, your son.

Tammy:

Yeah. And you know what that's like. You…

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

…Suddenly wanna be at home as much as you can. And so, going to furniture markets two to four times a year, depending on if I went to the gift mart in Atlanta or just High Point- And then all the retail hours, it just got so hard. And the, you know, competition wasn't just- it wasn't the internet time, it wasn't that, but we faced a lot of competition out of some big voices out of Andrews, North Carolina, out of, you know- and Knoxville market got bigger and louder and…

Kristin:

Sure.

Tammy:

…It just got so hard. And our volume stayed high. It wasn't that. It was just margins are lower. You know, a lot of stuff coming in from overseas that would come in broken, and we had clients waiting on stuff, some- lots of special orders. We had a design department with a drapery workroom. These were- these were the days of the custom-made drapery treatments.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

And so, yes. So, we had that department, and it just- and I think both of us just got so tired. And I left first because I said, I went home to Jeff and I said, "I think it's time. You know, I just think it's time. I'm exhausted. You're exhausted. John's in school now." I mean, I don't- you know, I just missed- felt like I was missing so much, and it was just hard. And sometimes, you know, you just- you gotta know when, you know? And my parents were both like- and I was so sad. I was like, "Well, we've let down the family legacy. This is-"

Kristin:

Oh, what a weight.

Tammy:

And my dad's words still in my mind, I can still hear him. He said, "The whole purpose of the store was for us." It wasn't- it wasn't to have it forever and ever and, you know, it was, like- it was what we used to support ourselves. That's what they wanted it for.

Kristin:

Yeah.

Tammy:

And they're like,"That's all that matters." And so it was- it was- it made it- me feel a lot better. So I left. We already had an employee at that point who was interested and ended up, a couple of years later, we ended up selling out- selling the business to her. And then my parents were able to sell all the properties, so, which was- which was good. They- two of them actually sold after my dad passed. But yeah, it was- it was a really good family business. It was really neat to be a part of.

Kristin:

So, all right. So, you have this skill set. Staging was not a term that any of us were using.

Tammy:

No.

Kristin:

And I think this is right.

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

A neighbor…

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

…asks for your help.

Tammy:

Well…

Kristin:

Tell me how this all- how it unfolded into staging.

Tammy:

…I convinced her she needed to ask me for my help. So, I was a library assistant. We moved three times in three years…

Kristin:

Okay.

Tammy:

…To be honest, because I went home when I was exhausted at the furniture store back in 2001, and I said, "Can't do it." Jeff told his company he would willing to take a promotion and move. It was- they'd never heard that from him before, and they got all excited. Nine days later, he was in the other part of Tennessee, had his own freight- gosh, what's the word- terminal. They gave him his own terminal, gave him his own facility, his own drivers, promoted him immediately, and so a month and a half later, after I sold our house- we sold our house- I was there. We were there 11 months.

Kristin:

Mm.

Tammy:

He'd get promoted again. We're in Roanoke. 16 months later, we're in Richmond, and I said, "I love you, and this has been the best thing anyone could have ever done for me, and I'm so happy, but I'm never moving again. I know there's movers. I know there's packers. That was all paid for by the company, but this is very traumatic for me and our one child by himself moving and moving and moving." And, you know, it went beautifully, and thank goodness I loved Richmond. I love Richmond. I live in Midlothian, but I love, love, love Richmond.

Kristin:

But you don't love moving…

Tammy:

I don't love moving.

Kristin:

…but you move for a living.

Tammy:

I do.

Kristin:

The irony behind that is hilarious.

Tammy:

It's completely insane. Yes. Yeah, but it's other people's stuff.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

It is.

Tammy:

And it's just the fun part of moving. You know, I don't have to, like, box up my wedding album…

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

…and my pictures and the crap in the attic and all that.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

It's just the pretty stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I get to create… I get to rearrange a room every day. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, we moved to Richmond, and my neighbor… I was a- I was volunteering at the library at my son's school, and my neighbor, they're wanting to build their dream house, and they were gonna sell their home, and they lived up the street from me. The- she was the library assistant. She worked there. And I said so sweetly, I said, I could- I said, "You know, I know it's tough right now. It's been on the market, like, 30 days," which was a big deal back in the early days…

Kristin:

Yes, of course it was.

Tammy:

…And I said- I said,"I know it's so frustrating. We wanna help you get it sold." I said, "You know, I think I can help." And she said, "Oh, anything." So we went up to her house, and we put a lot of stuff in her garage. We painted two rooms. We rearranged some stuff, and I used my Ford Explorer and drug my accessories from the furniture store that I had in my home to her house, and the next buyer bought the house…

Kristin:

Were you surprised?

Tammy:

…without a photo being taken. I guess I didn't know enough to think that was unusual. Do you know what I mean? Like, I think at the time I was like, "Well, yeah, that's what it needed." You know?

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

It didn't- it didn't seem it. A realtor called me, who was representing her, and said, "You don't know me. Can you do that again?" And I thought, "Yeah, I can do that again, and again, and again, and again, and again."

Kristin:

Do you remember the agent?

Tammy:

I do.

Kristin:

Who is it?

Tammy:

Cheryl Valeni.

Kristin:

Do you know that's the first- that's my- that I- that my very first transaction ever in real estate was with her.

Tammy:

How about that? Symmetry again.

Kristin:

Unreal.

Tammy:

Here we go. It's unreal. Yeah. It is unreal. But you know Cheryl.

Kristin:

Oh, she's-

Tammy:

Like, she's marketing and-

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

She's smart as a whip, always has been. And, you know, she didn't at all- she has no problem calling anybody and saying anything, and…

Kristin:

Oh, yes. That's what she's good at.

Tammy:

…pretty much got into my life after that. And she called me, "Mrs. Wilkerson, you don't know me, but this is Cheryl Valeni. And I saw what you did," whatever that house number is up the street, and she said, "Can you do that again?" And I said, "Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am."

Kristin:

And that's how you got in.

Tammy:

That's how I did it. And I still had furniture sources, and I talked to Jeff for about this long, and I said, "This is what I'm gonna do." And he was like, "Like I have a choice." And so he and John and I- and a U-Haul truck- and I ordered furniture, and it came into my garage. And you gotta remember, I came from furniture, like, furniture, okay? So when I first started staging, it didn't matter what it weighed, how big it was.

Kristin:

Oh, yeah.

Tammy:

I mean, I didn't- I didn't understand that like, a lot of times with staging, we want big, nice, substantial furniture, but we don't want the heaviest big furniture.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

Especially what in furniture is called 'case

pieces':

chest of drawers…

Kristin:

Oh, yes.

Tammy:

…armoires, china cabinets. Well, I didn't know the difference back then. I thought we, you know, fill up the room. I really hadn't figured staging out yet, 'cause it wasn't such a thing.

Kristin:

There was no term for it.

Tammy:

There was really no term for it. And it took me that first six months to really understand what I was doing. But yeah, it- bless John's heart, he was 13. 13 years old and he was riding with his mother in a U-Haul. And, you know, one house became two, and then like, the- one of the- one of the ones- the second one, is where I met your mom, at the second- one of the second stagings I did. Like, I had the one house, and that got me two houses. One was Cheryl's, and one was someone she knew. And that house got me your mom and more houses. But that's where I met your mom.

Kristin:

I can't remember the hou- I can't remember the property. You'll-

Tammy:

It-

Kristin:

We'll have to think about it.

Tammy:

I believe, if I'm not mistaken, it was in Long Cove…

Kristin:

Okay.

Tammy:

…in Woodlake.

Kristin:

Yeah, we did a lot in there.

Tammy:

Yeah. And she came- I believe she came to a broker open there. And…

Kristin:

And that's how we met you.

Tammy:

…and that's how we met, yeah.

Kristin:

So, for people that don't know what staging is, what is staging?

Tammy:

You know, staging, there's several components. There's vacant staging, where a home is completely empty, devoid of personality, function, you know, placement.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

And really the call of desire, the call of bringing a- you know, making you want it. And…

Kristin:

No emotion.

Tammy:

…And that- that emotional pull, and that's- that's what's vacant home staging is, basically furnishing it in a very pleasing way that attracts the most people. You know, one of the things I talk about when I'm in a consultation is I want everyone to ski behind my boat, because I want everyone to ski behind my boat. I want a- I want as large a number of people to desire this house. And so, furniture decisions are not def- usually very, very style-specific. What we're after is more transitional, where it crosses the line. It's blended contemporary and traditional. And depending on where we are, sometimes you really lean more contemporary…

Kristin:

Sure.

Tammy:

…or you really, we call it younger. We lean more Gen Z, we lean more younger, depending on where we are. We don't do the same staging in Church Hill or in Shockoe Bottom as we do, you know, in Halsey. Those are…

Kristin:

Different buyer.

Tammy:

…Different buyer. But overall, for buying furniture for staging, you wanna stay transitional. You try not to have everything, like, completely off the edge in style categories, because it's not gonna appeal to as many people.

Kristin:

Staging is not decorating.

Tammy:

Staging is not decorating. Staging is very edited. And it's very intentional and furniture placement is very, very important. You really ha- I've seen a lot of people get into it who have no idea…

Kristin:

Sure.

Tammy:

…how to do placement, how to do furniture placement, how to understand what the bed wall is.

Kristin:

It's amazing to me over the years, I got my certification or whatever, I'm not even sure what you would've called it, in staging…

Tammy:

Right.

Kristin:

…years and years ago.

Tammy:

Sure.

Kristin:

And we were trying to stage homes ourselves, and that's when we met you.

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

And we were at a very quick pain point…

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

…which- because we didn't know what we were doing, and it is very physical.

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

And you have to have a lot of inventory.

Tammy:

Yes.

Kristin:

And it turns over really fast.

Tammy:

Yes.

Kristin:

Or it doesn't. It turn- it…

Tammy:

It's stuck.

Kristin:

…hangs on for a long time.

Tammy:

Sure.

Kristin:

But the reason that I was so determined to offer it to my clients is because I saw how much money it made for them. If you can just get people past- sometimes, it's an initial speed bump…

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

…thinking about investing money.

Tammy:

Yep.

Kristin:

And sometimes I think, especially in the early days, people thought it was kind of hocus pocus.

Tammy:

They did.

Kristin:

Like…

Tammy:

They did.

Kristin:

…head in the clouds.

Tammy:

Uh-huh.

Kristin:

Fluff.

Tammy:

Uh-huh.

Kristin:

But now we just- I don't bring a house, a vacant house, to market without it. I usually don't bring any house to market…

Tammy:

Right.

Kristin:

…even if it's lived in, without you walking through it.

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

It- you know the numbers- but it makes people thousands and thousands of dollars.

Tammy:

Thousands and thousands of dollars.

Kristin:

Why?

Tammy:

They- the reason why is because when they go in an unstaged house, we call it a unpresentation, no presentation. When they go in one that's how you live in it, versus how we're presenting it, they lose something, right?

Kristin:

Yeah.

Tammy:

They- suddenly- my dad calls- my dad used to call clothes number ones, number twos, and number threes. Okay? Number ones are what you wear out, you know, when you- when you're going…

Kristin:

You're dressed up.

Tammy:

…somewhere, right?

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

Number twos are what you're going to the store in. You're gonna run to the store and run back. Number threes, nobody ever sees you in your number threes. Those are those flannel pajamas. Okay? So, unstaged houses are number threes.

Kristin:

Mm.

Tammy:

They are. They're not presented. This is a product we're putting on the market.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

It's your biggest asset usually.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

And it- I'm telling you, unstaged versus staged is tens of thousands…

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

…of dollars difference. Did I ever tell you the$40,000 refrigerator story?

Kristin:

No.

Tammy:

So, back in- this was probably 2013 maybe- I'm in a home in River's Bend, and I walk in, perfectly nice. Everything's fine. We give them some tips along. I'm making my notes. You know, I always make notes. I always send them notes…

Kristin:

Oh, yes.

Tammy:

…Afterwards. We get to the eating area, and there is a 15-year-old refrigerator in the middle of the eating area against one wall. There's no room for a kitchen table where our- a family would eat their breakfast. The most important…

Kristin:

Right.

Tammy:

…pretty much place, kitchens. Everything-

Kristin:

Oh, yes.

Tammy:

People buy a house around a kitchen. Literally, that refrigerator- and the fella- the homeowners were both there, and I said,"Oh, well this certainly could be moved to the garage, can't it?" And I noticed kegs on top, and he said, "Absolutely not. I am not moving that refrigerator out of the eating area. This is my hobby business, and I have to keep it inside here," and I- you know, wouldn't move it. I said, "Are you sure?" I said,"Can I not real- can I- can we not talk this over?" And he would not, absolutely not, not any way. So I put it in the notes that I recommended it moved, and I said in the notes, "This is a $40,000 decision."

Kristin:

Ooh.

Tammy:

"This is a $40,000 refrigerator." And I want you to know, the realtor called me six weeks later.

Kristin:

Shocker.

Tammy:

And she said, "Ah, I can't believe it." She said, "It is under contract for $40,000 less than our estimate, our range." They give them a range, you know?

Kristin:

Yes, of course.

Tammy:

And she said, "It is- it cost him $40,000." So, it was a $40,000 refrigerator. So, this is a product that's going on the market, and every room you've got to think of the camera view. And so many times we walk in, and- I'm sorry I'm hitting the- so many times you walk in and, you know, a sectional sofa has its back to the front door.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

So many times. So many times. Or they'll have, like, some weird chairs pulled up in the dining room, and they don't use their dining room as a dining room. They're using it for a lot of other things. You're not explaining. You have to- people have to understand why is this room valuable to me.

Kristin:

If you don't show function…

Tammy:

Mixed function is a killer.

Kristin:

…people assign value when they can assign function.

Tammy:

That's it.

Kristin:

There's no doubt in the world.

Tammy:

That's it.

Kristin:

So, I've been in real estate for 20 years, so have you, and I have seen people in their most vulnerable moments.

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

It doesn't matter if they're buying, selling, letting go. You walk into those same houses…

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

…from a different perspective. But what do you see in people when you're there?

Tammy:

I think that everybody that's selling a property is going through a life event. They're retiring or they're divorcing.

Kristin:

Yeah.

Tammy:

Sometimes they've lost a spouse. Sometimes their kids are grown, and this is a big deal because they- their whole life was here.

Kristin:

Definitely.

Tammy:

I don't… Sometimes I always think, you know, me not being a real estate agent is the same reason I wasn't a child psychologist.

Kristin:

Oh, I think there's a reason that you're in doing what you do.

Tammy:

Because you all handle so many of those delicate situations, and you navigate them beautifully. I've seen you with people for 20 years, and it's amazing. You and your- and your mom have that natural, "I'm gonna take care of you," that just comes across. And I probably tried to copy it over these years and become more like you in that way, but there is so much when you walk into someone's house, and sometimes they're on guard…

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

…Against you and me. I mean, against, you know, "Oh, I don't wanna be told that. I don't wanna…" You know, "I don't wanna spend any money," or,"I don't wanna be told anything." And we're trying to help. We are literally…

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

…trying to help. You know, the statistics show you get $4 back for every$1 you spend in staging.

Kristin:

That's incredible.

Tammy:

I would be willing to bet that-

Kristin:

I think it's a lot higher.

Tammy:

I know mine is. I tell you, mine is more.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

I know mine is. I think there are some markets where staging is a lot more expensive than it is in Richmond, and that's a very good number.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

But I think here, because we have such a wide range of price ranges in our…

Kristin:

Sure.

Tammy:

…market, which, again, I love Richmond. I'm a huge Richmond- I'm a huge Richmond market fan.

Kristin:

Same.

Tammy:

That- yeah. See, how does that work? That worked great for us, right?

Kristin:

Works good.

Tammy:

Yeah, it worked great. They, literally, are in sometimes the throes of it.

Kristin:

Yeah.

Tammy:

They are in it, and so having the heart of a servant, I think that's everything. I really do. If your main goal is to help, the money will follow.

Kristin:

Yeah. You know, for me, I mean, over the years I've gotten really comfortable, 'cause you just are a part of my team. It isn't…

Tammy:

Oh, thank you.

Kristin:

…if you want staging, but because I know- I know the magic behind it.

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

And it's a- I have an entire portfolio of business that I can show what happens…

Tammy:

Yeah. Yeah.

Kristin:

…when you stage and when you don't stage.

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

But I think there's this fear, and I think people have it too, with me. They assume that, you know, I'm a realtor. I have done…

Tammy:

Mm-hmm.

Kristin:

…this for a long time. I think they think I live in this museum-type home, which, you've seen mine, and it is not a museum.

Tammy:

I was gonna say…

Kristin:

And-

Tammy:

…so not true, of us, either.

Kristin:

And they- when you come in, you are, in their mind, you're like a designer coming in.

Tammy:

Yeah. Yeah.

Kristin:

And it's ins- it can feel very insulting…

Tammy:

Yeah. We never wanna do that.

Kristin:

…when they think that we're coming in telling them they need to change their home…

Tammy:

No.

Kristin:

…But that is not the entire- that's actually…

Tammy:

No.

Kristin:

…that's the opposite of what we're there to do.

Tammy:

Correct. Correct.

Kristin:

We're there to get a blank slate.

Tammy:

That's it. That's it. It'd be just like you and I going to a store and I say, "I'm gonna go out and sit in the car. You buy me a pair of pants." Okay? I mean, we all have a- created a life in our homes that fits us.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

It's exactly what we want. It's our comfort level, it's our style.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

Sometimes, it's just that we wanna put it here where it's convenient, you know?

Kristin:

Yeah.

Tammy:

You never know. But, what we're trying to do is make that house appeal to the most amount of people, and we just have to get them over the edge of it's a product…

Kristin:

Yeah.

Tammy:

…of turning it into, you know, their best- their best presentation of their product.

Kristin:

Outside of the$40,000 refrigerator…

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

…is there a house that you've staged that still stays with you?

Tammy:

There's- there's a lot that still stay with me. I mean, over the years, there's- there's been some very, very unique situations…

Kristin:

Uh-huh.

Tammy:

…over the years.

Kristin:

We may have been together on some of those.

Tammy:

Maybe a few. That's right. You know, early on when I- the first luxury home, you know, we've done, and those stick out to me. Working with a high-volume flipper, I guess you call it…

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

…these investor people, learning how to navigate that and be successful with those folks.

Kristin:

Builders.

Tammy:

I work with a few people that other people have said, "Oh, I don't know how you work with that person." I'm like, "I love them. Are you kidding? We're- yeah." So, you know, as far as, like, does a property or two stick out, yeah, there's a few that are unique and different, and there's some that were really far away that were experiences. I staged in North Carolina a couple of times.

Kristin:

Wow.

Tammy:

That was exciting. Staged a house for an investor in Danville, you know…

Kristin:

Yeah.

Tammy:

…of all places.

Kristin:

That's pretty far.

Tammy:

It's pretty far. Staged a couple over on the coast. You know, and we still routinely go to Toano, New Kent, you know, and just…

Kristin:

Yep.

Tammy:

…all over the area. But I will be honest with you, it- we're at the volume now where I really- that really doesn't happen to me as much anymore. There's just so many right now with our- the way we're operating, thankfully.

Kristin:

So you've, you've turned that- I mean, yes, I'm grateful for the business I have, too…

Tammy:

Yeah, yeah.

Kristin:

…the people that place their trust with you and me.

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

It's definitely something to be grateful for. So, your business is not a U-Haul truck…

Tammy:

No.

Kristin:

…anymore.

Tammy:

No.

Kristin:

So how many houses are you staging?

Tammy:

We're currently in around 175 current stagings. We staged a little over 1,200 last year.

Kristin:

Geez.

Tammy:

You know, and I don't like to share numbers because everybody thinks…

Kristin:

Well, it's competitors.

Tammy:

…"Oh, well, you're just one of a million," and all this, but, it's not that. It's that I'm so proud of this team I've got around me. I'm so blessed and unbelievably lucky. Stupid lucky, like crazy lucky. I have two guys who are amazing who've been with me for years now, Davis and Brett, and they do all of the logistics. And that's a…

Kristin:

It is a logistical nightmare.

Tammy:

…beast in itself. It is. And then Karen is our lead designer, and she's been with me longer than any of our designers. She worked under Jamie…

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

…who was amazing as well, and who retired. And then, we just hired two new designers, so.

Kristin:

That's exciting.

Tammy:

I believe we have seven designers on staff now and 22 staff.

Kristin:

When y'all pull up, it's like a army of folks…

Tammy:

It really is.

Kristin:

…coming in to, like, save the house…

Tammy:

It really is. That's true.

Kristin:

…to transform it.

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

It's a- it's- your Instagram…

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

…your videos you've done is really awesome.

Tammy:

They're- aw, thank you.

Kristin:

But it's tr- it's true…

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

…watching it. Did you ever dream you'd get this big?

Tammy:

I never dreamed I'd get this big. I remember being very prayerful that I could pay off the inventory I bought at first, the first year. I remember that prayer. I remember walking my dogs on the dog path thinking, "You know, dear Lord, if I can just pay this credit card bill off under this interest-free term, and then that works out okay, I'll- it'll be great. I'll be very thankful." I remember that. I remember that now. And never dreaming I would have 175 houses of inventory, staged, and never even imagining that I would do model homes in three different assisted living facilities here in town. Never dreamed I would work with the clients that I'm working with. I'm so grateful. And the high volume clients that literally keep me going all year.

Kristin:

Sure.

Tammy:

They're staging in December. They finish houses in December.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

We stage the week of Christmas. Who would've ever in a million years thought that would ever, ever, ever happen? And I'm just very, very lucky.

Kristin:

Your success does not look like this though, my friend.

Tammy:

No.

Kristin:

And there's been people that have tried to take some of your sunshine.

Tammy:

Yeah, that's okay.

Kristin:

Owning a business is not for the faint of heart.

Tammy:

Not at all. You know that.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

Not at all.

Kristin:

Well, you're in a- you're in an interesting position because you're- you have two sets of clients. You have…

Tammy:

Mm-hmm.

Kristin:

…real estate agents…

Tammy:

Mm-hmm.

Kristin:

…and you have homeowners.

Tammy:

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Kristin:

And that's a lot of folks to keep happy.

Tammy:

Yep, yep, yep. That is. That's a lot of folks to keep happy.

Kristin:

I'm sure I'm missing some other people that are also your clients.

Tammy:

Yeah. Yeah.

Kristin:

What would you say to someone who's wanting to make a career change and is…

Tammy:

In staging?

Kristin:

…and is- no, maybe not in staging, just in general, and is…

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

…scared to put the money on the credit card, afraid to take the plunge. What advice would you have?

Tammy:

I don't- I think it's much riskier to stay stuck.

Kristin:

Mm.

Tammy:

Much riskier. It's terrifying to me. I like to move my bedroom around, remember? So, I mean, yeah, I can't imagine. You know, there's- far as we know, this is one-shot deal here on old planet Earth, and I'm not about to stay in something that doesn't bring me joy. I just can't imagine it. And every day is so different. That's why, you know, I'm at the point now where I don't know every house, 'cause I can't even go see every house that we get to do.

Kristin:

Right.

Tammy:

And so, the idea of being stuck in something that… Absolutely take the risk every time, because you can always start over. Start over again. I've started over twice, so, and I had things worked out both times.

Kristin:

Yeah, I think the fear of failure is so big to people.

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

But to me, the fear of not living up to my own expectations…

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

…of my life is greater.

Tammy:

Much greater, yeah.

Kristin:

So, but, the path to success is- it just doesn't look the way any…

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

…at least not the way I thought it would look for myself.

Tammy:

Right.

Kristin:

And I know you and I've held inventory.

Tammy:

Yep.

Kristin:

I mean, you and I were in business together where…

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

…we would have a home staged for months and months and months.

Tammy:

It's happened, sure. Exactly.

Kristin:

And the only way out was just through it.

Tammy:

Yeah. And that's- and we still- and we still find that sometimes.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

You know? Staging's not a magic pill.

Kristin:

No, it's good at-

Tammy:

It's an enhancer, you know? It really is. It's- it does. It makes- it makes the potential better.

Kristin:

It's part of the puzzle.

Tammy:

It's part of the puzzle, you know? It- I kind of think it's a little bit of insurance, that if you're in the right price point…

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

…And you have somewhere near the right condition, that this is hopefully the thing that puts it over the edge, and it usually does. And, you know, there's been times where it put it way over the edge. I've had tales of, "Well, we got 250 over ask." I've- you know, it's not every time, but you've heard that.

Kristin:

Yeah.

Tammy:

There's an occasional time with that. But most of the time it just makes it easier. It just makes it sell faster, statistically, and for more money. And those are- those are the stats.

Kristin:

Yes. We see it over and over…

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

…and over again.

Tammy:

It still may not take it- it still may not sell immediately, but it's gonna sell faster than it would have, and it's gonna sell for a little more money, and they're… You know what the other secret is? It stays sold better.

Kristin:

Ah.

Tammy:

Staged homes…

Kristin:

Yes, they stick.

Tammy:

…they, you know, they look at the pictures, or they go back in for another look, and it- they stick.

Kristin:

They stick.

Tammy:

They stick more.

Kristin:

I think that's an important piece of the puzzle because over the last couple of years…

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

…the fallout rate on contracts has been…

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

…the highest we've ever seen.

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

Buyer remorse is a very real piece of the puzzle.

Tammy:

I think they start thinking of the numbers.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

And they start realizing the interest rates, and they live with the idea of the payment for a minute, and they get real picky about the home inspection…

Kristin:

Sure.

Tammy:

…or the HOA. And it does- it's happened. It's happened with us, too.

Kristin:

Sure.

Tammy:

We try to have a longer term contract than a lot of folks, too, with 60 days.

Kristin:

Yes, which is smart.

Tammy:

Really good priced extensions if we need them.

Kristin:

Tammy, you're in tons of people's homes. So if someone's listening, they're not thinking of selling…

Tammy:

Right.

Kristin:

…but what are, like, the common… now we're- I'm gonna be careful because we're not…

Tammy:

Yep.

Kristin:

…trying to insult people.

Tammy:

Good. Yeah.

Kristin:

But give some people some pro tips. What are- what are your, like, the top two or three things when you walk into a house, you're like, "If I could educate everybody who buys a house…"

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

"…to do these things"?

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

Like, what are your top couple of things?

Tammy:

And I think a lot of these you're gonna know because…

Kristin:

But-

Tammy:

…you've been in this, but, just generally… like, you have to clean. You have to get daily clutter out of the visual perspective.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

You cannot have shoes, socks, baseball gloves, you know, like bags, tote bag- I mean, every- everything, all your products…

Kristin:

Yeah.

Tammy:

…sitting out. You've got- you've got to put it away. Pretend your mother-in-law's coming, you know?

Kristin:

Yeah.

Tammy:

And the last time she came, it didn't go well. So, pretend that's going on, like, and that you're having a dinner party, you know. Turn on all the lights. Like I said, clean and declutter.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

Clean, clean, clean, clean. And the family photos, as you know, they're- they've got to go. They've just got to go. We've got to have all that away. And typically, a lot of people's are tabletop framed.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

And that just makes small clutter. So those are the basics, the very, very basics. Another thing that we see all the time right now are mismatched light bulbs.

Kristin:

Mm.

Tammy:

You've got a warm light and a white light and, you know, they'll be in the same fixture. You know, things like that, little basic things like that that are- that we don't notice sometimes. Like, "Oh, my husband just got a bulb and he put it in there, and, you know, I didn't know he was buying that color, but we forgot about it." Those type of things.

Kristin:

What colors do you use?

Tammy:

We use warm light.

Kristin:

Warm light?

Tammy:

Yeah, the warmest- the warmest bulbs you can get. I know there's a number and I…

Kristin:

It's okay.

Tammy:

…I have it at home and I put it in my notes. But- and I'm sure if Kathy's watching me, she does our occupied consultations, she's, like, shouting the number right now- but, use the warmer lights. They're- it is more pleasing. It's just more welcoming.

Kristin:

Versus, like, the blue…

Tammy:

More than the cold, white lights.

Kristin:

…cold lights.

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

I think one of the biggest things that I see, that I've learned from you, in just people's homes in general, is- I think one of the hardest things is scale.

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

And you taught me that's because we are buying- we are buying furniture in these giant stores…

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

…where we can't gauge scale.

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

And now it's, like, been on my radar for 20 years.

Tammy:

Yep.

Kristin:

And it's so- when someone nails scale…

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

…sometimes you can't put your finger on why someone's home looks so amazing…

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

…and it's usually something like scale.

Tammy:

Very, very often it's scale. And, you know, there's a certain- most of staging is a- there's a little bit of a quietness to it. You want it to pop, but you don't want it to overtake. So, a lot of times we have these big brown leather durable sectional sofas and they take up a room.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

They're built for comfort, they're built for durability, but they're terrible usually in photos. And so, a lot of times when you go in a home…

Kristin:

Yeah.

Tammy:

…and you're like,"Yeah, I see why you like that," but, you know…

Kristin:

We're gonna need to move it.

Tammy:

…Scale wise it's wrong, and also, it's very dominant, so we're gonna wanna pull back a little bit on that and make sure the scale is right. We're trying to show- we're trying to show off the house, you know? We're not trying to sell furniture in a showroom. So that's very, very true.

Kristin:

It's a- I hope you- when you're- if y'all are listening, hopefully, A, you're listening, and B, when you hear this, you'll think of scale.'Cause I think it is a- it's a huge- it's just a huge difference maker.

Tammy:

It is.

Kristin:

It really is.

Tammy:

It is.

Kristin:

So, just two more questions. The torture chamber's almost over.

Tammy:

I think it is. I'd rather be moving boxes. No, just kidding. Just kidding.

Kristin:

That is not true. So, you've- you know, where is Designed 2 Sell going? Do you have a trajectory?

Tammy:

I mean, I-

Kristin:

Are you- you're successful.

Tammy:

We are. We are. We're very- we're very fortunate. We're very, very blessed. My son…

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

…who is our vice president and handles all the admin operations end of it.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

Now, I'm still more involved in that than anything else.

Kristin:

Yeah.

Tammy:

But, John's been with me since day one.

Kristin:

I know he has.

Tammy:

You know? I mean, I think he helped carry things up to that first house as a little guy.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

So John is definitely interested in carrying on, and I'm interested and have been in talks with those key employees about being partners of John's and being team members with equity. And so I…

Kristin:

I love that for y'all.

Tammy:

…I could- and I've, you know, have had interest in a buyout- I've had…

Kristin:

Sure.

Tammy:

…you know, folks from other markets that are interested now in Richmond. To be honest with you, I would be heartbroken. You know what I mean?

Kristin:

You're not ready.

Tammy:

I would. It would be like leaving the store all over again. It really…

Kristin:

Yeah.

Tammy:

…Would be hard. It would be a moment. This has really been, you know, my life's work. It really has been. And I'm so proud of the people I work with, and John, and my husband has contributed so much, you know, for a long time.

Kristin:

I know he has. He's a great guy.

Tammy:

He supported us while we just kept buying inventory and then bought trucks and more trucks and, you know, more inventory, and built a warehouse and everything else that's come with this growth that we've had. So, that's what I wanna see. I really do.

Kristin:

I hope-

Tammy:

We just-

Kristin:

I want that for you, too.

Tammy:

Thank you.

Kristin:

Selfishly.

Tammy:

It's a big reason- you're a big reason why we're still here, so…

Kristin:

Oh…

Tammy:

…we appreciate that…

Kristin:

…teamwork.

Tammy:

…the whole team. Yeah.

Kristin:

It's a big-

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

It's a big thing. So I'll end with this. This is not about staging. It's just, what does home mean to you?

Tammy:

Lost my dad in 2016.

Kristin:

Mm-hmm.

Tammy:

And his hometown, you know, that was home. That was my home. And it took a minute after that for me to realize that while I love that and I love my hometown and I love my family that's there and I get to see them as much as I can, this is my home. And my work is my home, and our physical home is our home, but it's the people that you have around you that are your home. And that's why helping the clients that I've made and the real estate agents that I've become such close friends with and feel so dedicated to, and that team of mine, that's home. Now, this is home. So, I'm really lucky to be in it and be- and have the opportunity to not- to know I don't have to move. I get to stay in this place and just watch it grow and enjoy it.

Kristin:

I love that. I think it's- so it's not just a place, it's a feeling.

Tammy:

It's not. It's not.

Kristin:

It's the people around you.

Tammy:

It's the people around you. Absolutely.

Kristin:

It shows- you know, I've had clients- I can think of Lisa as a great example…

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

…that have become a part of your friend group…

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

…And your- and I mean, that tells me so much. It's-

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

You know, I wouldn't let just anyone come into…

Tammy:

yeah.

Kristin:

…my clients' houses, and I'm sure…

Tammy:

Oh, I value that.

Kristin:

…you feel the same way.

Tammy:

I do.

Kristin:

And because it's all of our reputations on the line.

Tammy:

It is.

Kristin:

And I'm- when- if I- when I get a call from one of my clients and they say- like, raving about you and what you've done-

Tammy:

Aw.

Kristin:

And the best call I can get is, "I never knew it could look like this."

Tammy:

Oh, I love that. That's so sweet.

Kristin:

You know? Then that- then you know the job has been done really well.

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

And-

Tammy:

When they're proud of it.

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

That feels good.

Kristin:

'Cause that's what this is all about, is for other people.

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

And it's serving them…

Tammy:

Exactly.

Kristin:

…and helping them.

Tammy:

Exactly.

Kristin:

And it's amazing that staging, which was a term that was not around 22 years ago, has a lot of buzz.

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

But it is- it has become such a fundamental part of real estate, and a fundamental part of really increasing people's net…

Tammy:

Yeah.

Kristin:

…that feels irresponsible to me if we don't do.

Tammy:

I feel you're exactly right. I also hope that it gives people some comfort that we've got it, that they feel like they're- sometimes they're a little scared of what- will my house look right? What will this- and we…

Kristin:

Sure.

Tammy:

…Come in and say, "We're gonna take care of that." You know, white towels in the bathroom or this, and- you know, and they're like, "What do I need to buy?" And they start trying to write it down. I'm like, "Oh no, we've got that. We've got it. We'll take care of it." You can see relief…

Kristin:

Yes.

Tammy:

…on their face. You can see it immediately on their face, so.

Kristin:

It's a gift to give somebody.

Tammy:

It is a gift.

Kristin:

It is.

Tammy:

It is.

Kristin:

Thank you for sitting down and talking to me.

Tammy:

I had fun. It was a lot easier than I thought.

Kristin:

That's the good thing.

Tammy:

That's right.

Kristin:

Yes. All right. Well, thanks, Tammy. Thanks. I loved it.

Tammy:

Absolutely.

Kristin:

Thank you.

Tammy:

Have fun.