The Boys Are Back, Party Proxy War, and Hotel Room Blockbuster - Episode 22

After a week off, the guys reconvene for their regularly scheduled programming to discuss a big story that involves hotel rooms, Albanians, donors, and the Office of the Attorney General, alongside party proxy fights and new redistricting possibilities.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

We did other things there. We went to the famous zoo, which was awesome.

SPEAKER_02 0:03

What was your favorite animal?

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Uh well, you kept telling me about these Chinese cows, but I could not find them for the life of me.

SPEAKER_02 0:10

They're kind of mountainous creatures. Did you look up? I know you're kind of short. Like, did you have your stool?

SPEAKER_00 0:16

You know, I forgot it. That might be why I missed it.

SPEAKER_02 0:19

Did they not let you take that hunt planes?

SPEAKER_00 0:21

No, no. But you know what? I did see in the trees, some koalas, one of which looked surprisingly like you. Uh, or at least how I imagined you waking up in New Orleans on your trip there.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

That was funny. That was a good. Maybe we should tweet out that picture after this drops. Like Okay, we'll do that. It was it was pretty humorous. It made me chuckle. I'll schedule it too. It made me guffaw. Welcome back, everybody, to another wonderful, amazing podcast by the folks at here at Texas Bullpen. And who are those folks, Richie? Those folks are uh the fellas, you and me.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Brad and Richie. You're Brad, I'm Richie.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

This is a super complicated operation. Yeah. Um no, welcome back. We we missed a week, but uh we survived. There were complicating factors. Complicating factors. We were both traveling. Yeah. And uh logistically it just didn't work, so we put the podcast on hold for a week, but don't worry, we're back.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

We're back. We're very sorry. Uh I had a lot of people tell me that their weekend was nothing more than uh filled with the wailing and gnashing of teeth because they did not have our insightful, witty, humorous, charming selves gracing their uh earbuds or TVs, as the case may be, with our wonderful uh breakdown of Texas politics and all the fun, fun, fun world it is. And last week was quite a week. This week, another quite a week, we could say. Yeah. Uh a lot of stuff happening and a lot of uh big stories we had.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

And we are we are recording on Thursday, just FYI. Uh we're supposed to be on the golf course Friday morning, God willing. Uh although God doesn't seem to be very willing so far with uh heavens opening up.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Yeah, our golf cart has got to be the arc, you know. Yeah. How much water is there?

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Um but that means you know, who knows what happens Friday? We won't have talked about it because it we it's not Friday yet.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

So it's also, you know, good Good Friday, so you know, hopefully there's not too much has any news ever been made on that day?

SPEAKER_00 2:35

You know, I don't think so. I don't think there's ever been a big not even in over 2,000 years.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

Not even not since 2,000 years has any news happened on Good Friday.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

Um but Richie, you know, so as I mentioned, we we had traveled. I went to San Diego with my dad for his 60th birthday, and we went to uh a trio of baseball games, which was awesome. Highly recommend going to be a few.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

You had baseball games just for your dad's birthday.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

I know, right? It's a very uh special occasion.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

How'd you like San Diego?

SPEAKER_00 3:06

It was awesome. The weather was fantastic, the ballpark was great. Uh highly recommended, even if you're not a big baseball fan, if you can stand it even just a little bit, it's a good place to go, a good trip. And we did other things there. We went to the famous zoo, which was awesome.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

What was your favorite animal?

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Uh well, you kept telling me about these Chinese cows, but I could not find them for the life of me.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

They're kind of mountainous creatures. Did you look up? I know you're kind of short. Like, did you have your stool?

SPEAKER_00 3:34

You know, I forgot it. That might be why I missed it.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

Did they not let you take that hunt planes?

SPEAKER_00 3:39

No, no. But you know what? I did see in the trees, some koalas, one of which looked surprisingly like you. Uh, or at least how I imagined you waking up in New Orleans on your trip there.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

That was funny. That was a good maybe we should tweet out that picture after this drops. Like Okay, we'll do that. It was it was pretty humorous. It made me chuckle. I'll schedule it too. It made me guffaw.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

Yes, it was uh well when I saw it, I was like, oh my gosh, that is spot on, Richie. It's John of the Dude was slumped over a branch in the tree.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

It's been known to happen.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

It's been known to happen. Well, the other similarity, or potential similarity, is that uh koalas are rife with disease.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

Oh, shut up. You sick son of a Polish person. Howdy, everyone. We'd like to thank the sponsor of today's podcast, the Lowy Law Firm. For over 20 years, Adam Lowy has helped injured Texans recover and heal. From car accidents to dog bites, Adam Lowy is there to help and gets results. Go to LowyLawfirm.com to find out more and get a free consultation. Adam, of course, is very well known on Twitter for his commentary and observations on Texas politics, so be sure to give him a follow as well. Thanks to our sponsor, the Lowy Law Firm. Uh you're going back.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

You're gonna put me on the drain. Um, it was fun. We also saw the USS Midway, which was sweet.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

Um that's a big boat for people who don't know.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

A really big boat, a carrier, as it were.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

It's a carrier? It's a carrier. Of what? Just like the quality of carriers.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

Something nefarious. Um so while I was there, you were up in Dallas for CPAC.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

While you were out having a grand old time, I was working like a dog. I went down to New Bronfels um to go speak on a on a panel with some uh lovely individuals just about what's going on in Texas politics, and then from there I drove straight up to Grapevon, Texas, to the uh chlorinated coliseum that is the Gay Lord Resort Hotel uh that is entirely air conditioned.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Have you trademarked that by the way? Chlorinated Coliseum?

SPEAKER_02 5:54

No, I haven't, but I guess it's mine. Yeah. What would I use that for? I don't know. Just to have the trademark. Yeah. A collector of fine antiquities. Um, yeah, so you know, it's got this huge indoor waterway, water walk, just like uh Riverwalk, just like uh down in San Antonio, but it's inside, very odd little space, um, massive. I got lost so many times just trying to like get to my room or get to the conference, but CPAC was happening. Uh, you know, a long-standing convention of uh conservative politicos and politically interested people, and so I was there, spent a lot of time uh shadowing uh Attorney General Ken Paxton, who was kind of the big speaker for their Friday night dinner, and you know, uh won the straw poll for the Senate runoff against John Cornyn. Shocked. I'm shocked. Shocked, shooketh. Um and uh yeah, you know, got to listen to Ted Cruz. I only got there on Friday, so I missed some of the other guys who spoke. Um I got there Friday evening, so I missed uh some of the other Texas folks that uh spoke there, like uh State Senator Maze Middleton, Governor Greg Abbott, but caught uh Ted Cruz and uh Brandon Herrera was there, so got to meet and watch and see and working up a article about all the the crazy times uh can't wait to read that I had.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Um if you would finally get the dang draft in.

SPEAKER_02 7:29

Yeah, well sorry, we're only writing uh bombshell scoops of stories every other day. Um one of which we'll get to. That's been a very, very interesting little development that's been happening uh that we haven't had a chance to talk about because we didn't record a podcast last week, but that's when the game was afoot, I guess we could say. But you know, just a little teaser so you don't stop listening. I will talk about that later towards the end. Um but yeah, it was a it was a really good, interesting trip. If you've never been to one of those political conferences, uh it's a totally different world filled with influencers and managers and young people interested in politics and old hats and hustlers and all sorts of things. The people watching must have been. Uh the people watching was, I mean, incredible. You had in the vendor hall, you had at times somebody dressed up as a reenactor of Moses, and then a like six and a half foot dude in drag being like calling himself Lady MAGA. So like the the big tent kind of uh thing there. I mean, it was one of those things you just look at it and it starts like splitting your mind into two. Like what is these two things should not be going together. Yeah, right. Like I'd like to see you trade across the Red Sea when it moves into it.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

Uh from some of the pictures that I saw, it didn't look like it was very well attended, except for a couple different speeches.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

Yeah, that was the big kind of uh online narrative was that there wasn't a lot of people there, but I'll tell you there was enough people for me to feel claustrophobic. A lot of it is when is the people flow, right? If there wasn't a lot of people in the main stage that were probably out in the vendor hall or running around this huge resort, you know, whatever. So uh a lot of people didn't have the schedule. Uh there was a lot of, I think, confusion about it. But I mean there were still, I think, a couple thousand people there. I think it was definitely smaller than a lot of previous CPACs, uh, which I'd never been to one before. Uh, and a lot of them used to be hosted in DC, but they've started doing them outside of DC, and I think a lot of people were saying that that deflated attendance of speakers that draw in folks, because like Trump didn't attend this year, uh and he's generally there. In fact, nobody with the Trump name spoke. Uh, there was only a few kind of cabinet level folks there, and a lot of the other people who were slated to speak weren't able to make it down because they were stuck up in DC. And of course, if it's fifteen minutes from the Capitol versus a flight when flights are kind of all messed up, that's a big logistical difference there. But um and one of the things that was interesting is in that straw pool, you know, they only had 1800 people respond, and in prior years it's been many times more that and something like 85% of the respondents were from the South. Uh so you know, very much as they were moving away from DC, you're getting a a a very regional crowd versus a national crowd, probably that they had in the past.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

So um in in college I'd been to I think four CPACs. And when I was in school it was radical. I know, right? When I was in school, it was uh before and then immediately during and after Trump won the presidency and took over the party. Yeah. And so it was real uh real interesting to see the type of attendees change, or at least the dominant attendees go from um and just the politics too, which we've seen uh generally speaking in the Republican Party ever since, uh, you know, the policies have shifted because the philosophy of the Republican Party has shifted. Uh, you know, you go from uh Mitt Romney uh and right after Mitt Romney lost um Chris Christie and Bobby Jindal at that first CPAC after Romney lost, being the two guys that were thought to be the front runners in 2016. And by the time 2016 came around, they were not even close to the front runners. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:44

Um and of course, by the time 2016 came around, neither was Trump. Now he had some early successes in those CPAC straw polls, but even then he still didn't win it. That's when you had career.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

He spoke at the 2015 CPAC, I remember vividly, and it was a massive attendance um there, and it was it was the big uh spectacle at the time. And then um, you know, I think shortly, like a few months later, he comes down the escalator and announces his run for president, the rest is history. But even then you could see the types of attendees among Republicans shifting from, you know, mo it was really quite diverse in terms of old school establishment type Republicans, you know, Tea Party conservatives, populist conservatives, uh to now it's very heavily dominated by uh by Trump. You know, there's a lot running joke that it's basically now a T Pack, but that's because Trump's the face of the party and his brand of republicanism is the dominant one, which makes t total sense. So it's just a different different than it used to be totally.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

You would find uh Cruz's speech pretty interesting because Hegue went out of his way to declare himself a populist. Uh and obviously I think kind of responding to some of these changing dynamics within the National Party, and obviously his big uh uh uh kind of disagreements with Tucker Carlson, who for a long time was thought to be one of the main proponents of this Trump wing of the party. And so Tucker I mean uh Cruz is trying to navigate those waters, declaring himself a populist, but then trying to recapture or redefine what people think that is, uh and then you know, trying to separate from the Tucker Carlson type populism of the party, because then he immediately segued into uh announcing that we were gonna have regime change in Venezuela, Cuba, and Iran within the next six months, and that quote, if anybody thinks Donald Trump is a isolationist, they've been in a coma for the last 15 months. So it was you'd find that one interesting on just how the shifting sands of party self-identification is going on. Because Cruz is somebody who I think the populist wing of the party would not claim as a populist, but he's trying to, I think, attach that uh designation to himself and then shift the goalposts a little bit on it. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Well the obvious explanation there is that that's part of his positioning to run for president. Because you have to get probably both wings of the party in order to win this. And I mean there's more than two wings, but which was interesting, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:39

Both Cruz and Abbott Spoke both got one percent in the CPAC straw poll for 28.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

And JD Vance stopped it, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:48

Uh yeah, JD and then a very rising Rubio.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Well, you know, let's say this one thing about straw poles. I remember when Rand Paul would win all the straw polls back around when I was attending CPAC in college. And did that ever amount to anything more than a hill of beans? No, it didn't.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

So what type of beans do you think they use to make those hills? This is something I've always thought about.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Keeps me up at night. I don't know. Lima beans, you think?

SPEAKER_02 15:15

Oh gosh, no. Are you serious? Is that like the first bean you think of?

SPEAKER_00 15:19

It's it's the most extreme bean.

SPEAKER_02 15:21

That's uh actually that's one of the most unhinged things I think you've ever said. That actually makes me worried for my safety in this room. I don't know if I can trash.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

Yeah, occasionally. Well, the in his the in his nightmares, the villains are llama beans. Oh my gosh. You don't remember that? No, I do. I try to. That's why the first bean that comes to mind is a llama beans.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

Honestly, the you need to stop digging. You're you keep digging this like this, you're gonna end up in China, the hole you're digging right now. Um, you gotta go like pinto or kidney bean or black bean, you know. Like good solid American beans.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Okay. Good beanstalk.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

Jack and the beanstalk. Yeah, I I mean I got that. Yeah, I got that one. You didn't really acknowledge it. So I was just gonna let it slide. Okay, fair enough. Well, maybe we should get on to the actual news at hands. I think we should keep talking about beans. That's riveting listening. While we await your CPAC story. Yes. Um I am very interested to read it. I know it's gonna be an entertaining read, to say the least. So while you were at CPAC, while I was in San Diego, uh the Senate district conventions for the Republican Party were happening ahead of convention in China.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

Which is what a lot of people blame for pr potentially lower turnout.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

Ah, yes. Well, you know, the other theme here across the state was that a lot of these conventions, not all of them, a lot of them themselves had very low turnout. So I think we're seeing a broader the activist base of the Republican Party, at least among the more active ones that attend these kinds of things, it's shrinking.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

Yeah, potentially. I I talked to a a number of people who were at CPAC who were like, yeah, I called in sick, told them I couldn't make it to the conventions because they were at CPAC, and some of the people at the conventions probably didn't go to CPAC because of it. So yeah, I do think even worry, I think.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Yeah. Well, while those were happening, you know, I think I saw Travis County's filled every one of the delegate slots, but then others filled barely half. Yeah and that's gonna come into play when we can when you and I both go to the RPT convention in June, um, and we watch all of that unfold. Yeah. Uh both the selection of the platform, the establishment of the party's rules, and the uh the biggest thing, the election of the chairman. And Abraham George is facing a uh a challenge from a few different people already. What are you smiling about? Um okay chairperson.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

Oh my god. It's 2026, Brad. Come on, catch on.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Oh my gosh. So uh he is facing uh among others Dorinda Randall, who's his vice chairwoman with the party, and the the party has this weird dynamic where if the chairman is a man, the vice chair has to be a woman, and vice versa. So they run as a ticket like that. Um but the these SD conventions, because that's where they select the delegates, all of the early battleground is happening there. And one, this was not the only interesting one, but one of the interesting ones that occurred was in Hill County, and we saw this uh kind of proxy fight play out between different wings of the GOP, and actually some revenge being taken against uh a couple uh activists, one's an SREC woman who spurred the censor censorship. Censor. I thought you had it. I thought that was censures uh against Oh yeah, fair enough. Yeah, I know I screwed that up. And I'm over here. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna say it again. I should not take pronunciation approval from you at all. Um a couple activists in Hill County who led and spurred the censure resolution against uh state rep Angela Orr, they got denied delegate status uh uh by the uh the individuals there. And um the the dynamics here are that uh Angela Orr she is a she was elected in 22. She is viewed as more of an establishment uh type state rep. She's friendlier with leadership, she was one of the 36 who voted for Dustin Burroughs. That sparked this uh effort, uh years-long attempt, to both censure uh state reps for uh alleged misdeeds, violations of party uh philosophy and rules, and then also uh remove them from the ballot in what we knew as Rule 44. So this happened all over the state. It culminated last year in I think it was an October meeting uh with the SRAC, where a few members got censured, including Angela Orr, but all the attempts to remove individuals from the ballot, as from the primary ballot, I should say, uh, they got they got booted. And big reason why is because the White House called in and said, Don't you dare remove Trump-endorsed uh candidates from the ballot. Don't even try. And so Abraham George was also uh pushing against that in the meeting and behind the scenes, as were some other SREC members. So um that was then, and this time in Hill County, uh one SREC member, Leslie Thomas, she applied to be a delegate, and she was rejected by the um the voters in that SD convention, uh basically the nominations committee submitted their uh the recommendated recommended report, and it did not include her application to be a delegate. She attempted to amend it, made a motion, and uh that was denied by a vote uh pretty overwhelmingly too, if I recall correctly. I think it was like 180 to 90 votes, so it wasn't close at all. Um and then uh as was Amy Teal, who those engaged in the more Republican Party kind of uh uh wing of things here will know better. As Amy Hedke. She is pretty famous for um live streaming every party event and wearing the same outfit all of the time for a couple other things that I'm not going to mention on the podcasts that are uh not PG 13. Um but both of them were denied. Their husbands applied and they were approved as delegates. And um Angela Orr's husband, Will Orr, is the party chairman in that county. He was not on the nominations committee. But this was clearly a proxy fight between these two warring factions.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

Uh and it's like a snapshot into how the political football gets moved at the very granular ground game. This is not something that makes the big headlines, but it's something that matters down the road and obviously plays into something that we've been looking into about some of the big money going into the precinct chair races and stuff. And there's obviously a very big focus from some people, uh some parts of the party to reshape the flavor and character of the Texas GRP. And they're doing it in seemingly a pretty methodical way, and this is a snapshot into some of these kind of uh more uh skirmishes, we could say.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Well, and the reason it matters is in the short term, nobody who's not an avid activist in the Republican Party is going to care. But we saw how the domino effect leads to uh decisions that are made or attempted maneuvers used against sitting representatives, which then leads to policy changes. So, like even if you're a lobbyist in Austin, what happens in these SD conventions does, if built up enough with enough momentum, affect what you're able to do and pass in the legislature.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

So um And we saw a number of politicians show up at their local SD conventions and Don Huffein's nominee for comptroller. I I think uh Mays Middleton was at one as well. And so there's and this kind of goes into what you wrote about in your most recent fourth reading, um, about kind of the the nature of the party infrastructure in Texas for both Republicans and Democrats. Because if you look back historically, uh you go back and read, uh, you know, during LBJ's days, there are like knockout, drag down, uh bare knuckle brawls over. I'm getting there.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

Okay. Well, I was I thought I was gonna say add another one. Oh, yeah, no, no. I thought you were asking me to wrap up. I had more. I had more, I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

I guess I'll just keep that to myself since I'm clearly not appreciated. Uh fights over control of the party, because who controlled the party meant a lot back then. Uh, but uh walk us through, I guess, how that sort of changed. And, you know, as we're looking back on it historically, that was very much true for the Democratic Party in Texas back when it was a one-party rule uh for like, gosh, a hundred years. Yeah. Uh it was a little bit less true for the Republican Party back then, just because they didn't have the juice that the Democratic Party had. So there was less stakes about who ran the Republican Party in the United States. But even in that, compared to how it is today, uh, you look back on those party infrastructures and it and it mattered a lot more.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

Trevor Burrus, Jr. Things are changing very slightly right now, like the overtures Abraham George has made to uh state leadership and vice versa has led to more congeniality so far between these two different types of of political entities in the state. It used to be there was some there was obviously hostility between these, but back in um back in ye olden days of you know 50s, 60s, 70s, it mattered to state officials who was running the the different parties, even the minority party, the Republican Party, as chair on the uh executive committee. It mattered to them. And uh back then, for the Democrats particularly, basically whoever was governor controlled the party apparatus. Um that I I think sort of played into w after Republicans took uh control of the state, but not nearly as much, and not like it is now, where for the last multiple cycles you've seen open hostility, uh first indifference from state leadership to the party leadership, but then also more recently open hostility. Yeah. Um and the big reason I was talking to a couple older hats on this and getting their thoughts, and um, the reason that more than anything else, and there's always a number of different uh reasons for these these types of shifts, but the biggest one is that the parties no longer control the flow of money in these campaigns. We're in a moment of uh very weak parties, very strong politicians, and third party groups. Think let's think about TLR, the biggest funding uh outside pack in the state, which for years basically was a Republican PAC. Um they still largely are, but the they are rolling in it, the governor is rolling in it, while the state party, Republican Party, is having so much trouble fundraising. And a big reason why, a big difference between way back when and now is that the technology has changed things such that uh particularly uh the voter roll lists are not gatekeeped by the party system anymore. And they have control. And exactly.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

And there's there's one thing that politicians and really almost anybody likes is having control over what affects you.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

Yeah. Well, you look back at um chairman like Tom Pawkin, who took over the party, um, he's probably the uh the most like um Alan West and Matt Rinaldi in terms of juxtaposition to state leadership and being a the tip of the spear on prodding them to do things they want rather than being their conduits for enacting for electing their party members and then enacting uh uh policy. Pawkin broke with George Bush quite a bit. Um he is kind of the the archetype for what we saw play out with Alan West as chair, with uh Matt Rinaldi as chair, with the start of Abraham George's chair, but he has shifted. Uh a big reason why is because how much of the party's policy priorities passed this past session. I think it was over 40, is the number often cited. But because the parties no longer control the flow of money, they um I in talking to these couple guys that that that spoke to me about it, they there's kind of a disagreement on which came first, whether donors stopped caring about the parties first, uh, which then obviously led to no money, which then created this vacuum for the more grassroots activist types to control the party, or if the activist types took over the party and then donors pulled back. Yeah. There's disagreement on which came first, but regardless, it's what happened and it's what we see now.

SPEAKER_02 30:10

And I don't know if we'll ever see it go back, but um I'll be interested to see what happens when the changing of the guard inevitably occurs. Uh, you know, this is kind of the tip of the spear cycle where we have some of the statewides opening up for the first time in over a decade, but like obviously the the big money guys in Republican politics in Texas are Abbott and Patrick, and they're gonna do something at some point that's not governor and lieutenant governor. And what happens then? Are there you know people who step in to that role and become kind of the uh pseudo-party apparatus, or is it such a you know, every person for themselves little fiefdoms of the different uh lower tier politicians who then you know nobody knows who to give what horse back, so they just go back to the party, you know?

SPEAKER_00 31:08

Well, and one thing that separates those two Patrick obviously is a very good fundraiser. He's shown that. But Abbott is in a tier of his own. Yeah. Large degree is he is the governor, obviously. But he's also just very skilled. I know, right? Excuse me. He's also just very skilled at this. And fundraising is his best quality. He has it down to a science.

SPEAKER_02 31:31

No, I think he's uh got nice personality, too.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

Thanks for that, Richie. Umalysis.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

He's more than just a bank account, Brad.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Touche, touche. Um but is the next governor are they that commanding with the fundraising apparatus, the campaign apparatus?

SPEAKER_02 31:55

All of these guys have been in office for well over I mean, like Abbott was a Supreme Court justice back in the 90s. You know, they've been around a long time, they've had a lot of time to build up their organizations, and that's one of the things, if you've built up an organization around a politician, what happens when they go away? The party remains, but you know, you can't just pass that off as easily.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

And you know, that might be a with uh the party legitimacy side of it, it might be a a Rubicon moment has been crossed, and one of the big uh examples of crossing that, if that is the case, was when Karl Rove started making his own list outside of uh what the parties controlled, and that just became the norm. And now all these consultants, they have their own lists that they they control that uh they don't have to go begging to the party to to use. Um it's also back then the consulting side of things was much more of a cottage industry. Uh it was the party bosses that were controlling a lot of this, that the elected officials that were making a lot of these decisions. Now we see a lot more influential consultants that um that pull the strings behind the scenes. And it's just a different world, and I don't know if we'll ever get back to it. But if you're interested in that, if you want to read more about that theme, I've got a lot more in fourth reading on this topic.

SPEAKER_02 33:23

Another reason why y'all have to subscribe to Texas Bullpin, if you're not subscribed, you're missing out on this uh very interesting analysis on the way things work. Uh, you're also missing out on major breaking stories that you can't get anywhere else. And our subscribers uh are pound for pound the most informed readership in Texas, and probably indeed the nation, because what really matters, you know, north of the Red River and uh east of the Sabine and south of the Rio Grande, everything happens in Texas. So if you're one of the most informed Texans, you're one of the most informed people in the world, and you can only do that by subscribing to Texas Bullpen.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

Wow, what a great pitch. I couldn't have done it better myself.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

Yeah, I mean, I'm basically like uh a really good pitcher. I was just not a really good catcher.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

Like a Nolan Ryan. You got baseball on your mind, right?

SPEAKER_02 34:19

Nolan Ryan, and I couldn't Oh, I'm gonna have to go like to my Texas priest and confess for my sin of forgetting Nolan Ryan's game for five seconds.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Do uh do three Hail Marys before you go to bed every night. That should uh absolve your sins there. Um well you since you mentioned breaking scoops, let's just talk about the big news of the last two weeks that we have uh broken multiple times, multiple stories on. So, Richie, why don't you set the table for us on this Office Attorney General hotel booking controversy?

SPEAKER_02 34:53

Yes. So it all really goes back uh to uh a week or two ago in March, and word starts getting out that two of the OAG's top officials, the chief of staff and chief financial officer, have uh departed the agency. And uh there were a lot of rumors about why, about what prompted that. And obviously, there's a certain level of people at the OAG are gonna start leaving and finding what to do next because Paxton is is uh running for Senate and not gonna be attorney general again. Uh, but this obviously uh there was something more to the story here. And then last week on Tuesday, we released an internal investigation that had been done, uh, that we obtained uh that had been done by the OAG related to hotel booking practices in January of 2025 in DC surrounding the inauguration of President Donald Trump, uh where the story goes, a bunch of high-level OAG employees were supposed to be traveling up to the Capitol in order to, you know, attend the inauguration, but also have a lot of meetings with the incoming Trump administration regarding the dozens of lawsuits that they had uh were engaged in against the federal government underneath the Biden administration, because those cases don't just go away. The new administration has to handle what to do with those. So they were all going to go up there and meet with them. A lot, a number of people, like Attorney General Paxton and some of the other executives were already up there in DC because the state had argued a Supreme Court case uh on the 15th of January. But there was this room block, ten rooms booked in a DC hotel. A courtyard by Marriott, I think. Yeah, the D.C. Foggy Bottom Courtyard Marriott. Um, and there was a massive blizzard that came through uh and allegedly prevented several of the OAG employees from attending. Now the contract that they had, and this is from the story that we released uh this morning, Thursday morning, uh we uh through records request obtained all the hotel receipts, the hotel contract that the OAG had, emails pertaining to the uh booking of the room, and then also kind of the financial accounting after the fact uh regarding this room. And also lists of names of people who were slated to stay in the rooms at one point or another. Not all of whom were and this is the big this is the big thing. So the story goes from the OAG is that uh these rooms were non-refundable. About twenty thousand dollars were put down up front to book these ten rooms for the period. Uh uh, they assert that that by doing this, by entering into a contract with the hotel, they were able to get a cheaper room rate versus like the individually whatever type room. But the rooms are non-refundable. So what do you do with these rooms that you can't get a refund in and nobody's gonna stay in? Allegedly, a quote, small group of people decided to uh try to find private individuals who would use the rooms and then take over the costs associated with those individual rooms. And so they do this, and they find uh other people who are maybe attending or want to attend, whatever, to take over the rooms. Uh, and this includes an interesting cast of characters, uh, including two people who have uh donated tens of thousands of dollars to Paxton uh over the course of his political career, let them use his private jets, Texas businessman and his and his wife. Uh this also includes uh two people from Albania, Albanian figures, yeah. Yeah, one of which is a uh big Albanian businessman, and another is a Albanian politician, the head, current head of their uh uh Republican Party. Yep. And then also the previous defense minister, uh a longtime associate with Attorney General Paxton, and also closely related to uh Chris Lasavita, who's a noted figure in American politics. Uh he was one of Trump's campaign managers, and he's also the uh currently on the Cornyn campaign as well.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

Indirectly, he is uh running the super PAC. For Cornyn. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 39:37

So and so there's uh all of that stuff. Uh additionally to uh State Senator Angela Paxton was a non-OAG official staying in the room block. Uh and then there was a Frisco Pastor as well who took over somebody's room in the room block, but we're you can see the the credit card charge for him repaying the room later, but he was not on the list.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

Initial the initial early list that we have of it.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

Um there's a lot of you know moving pieces with all of this. But what happened was is that two of the people who were not OAG officials that took over these rooms never checked into the rooms. One of which is the Frisco Pastor, and then another which is the businesswoman's wife, I think probably because I say businesswoman's wife. Uh so, anyways, those hotels get charged to the state card uh but leave receipts indicating that you know it's their names on them. Not a state employee uh staying there, which isn't a good look, obviously. Uh and so uh this goes on, and then in June, uh former controller Glenn Hager uh initiates an audit on the OAG, and this triggers uh a small group of people, quote unquote, in June of twenty five. In June of twenty five. Okay. So a few months later.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

Um and uh this leads to And this is sorry, this is this audit is pretty standard practice for the controller's office.

SPEAKER_02 41:16

Every four years agencies get audited, you know, it's to make sure, and you know, a general audit, there doesn't necessarily need to be any sort of reason for it. It's just a routine, regular thing. We've got to make sure that there's not fraud, waste, abuse, stuff like that. Make sure the books are in order, that's a controller's job. Uh so you know, there's not necessarily a specific cause that triggers Hager's um audit, but he initiates one in June of 2025, and then in July of 2025, these two receipts uh missing a part here. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

Kelly Hancock took over for uh for Hager who departed to go to uh the Chancellor of AM. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 42:01

And when Hancock takes over, he actually postpones the audit against COAG at that time. But uh this audit uh initiated by Hager, I think, uh based on the timeline, uh leads to It precipitated the discovery of these receipts. Yeah, the the receipts internally, because no documents were ever turned over to the controller because before the audits started, like really started, uh Hancock pauses it. Um but then uh you see paybacks from these uh outside individuals to the hotel, then covering the two rooms that were charged to the state account in July of 2025. Um and then you know it's all quiet, uh the the books are reconciled. And what the ultimate like effect of all of this was is that these private individuals uh paid for roughly about$7,300 of unused hotel rooms that would have otherwise been charged to the state. So like uh, you know, at the end of the day, that's a certain level of taxpayer dollars that didn't get charged to the taxpayers. But after the March 2026 primaries, Kelly Hancock uh gets knocked out, doesn't make it to a runoff against Don Hoffines. That next Monday, he reinitiates the audit against the OAG. And this sets off a chain reaction because uh of these receipts, which could potentially look bad in an audit. And also, you know, Kelly Hancock and Ken Paxson, you know, breaking news, not best friends.

SPEAKER_00 43:49

And and while this is playing out, there is they're having a full on scrap over the uh Islamic school litigation where these these I think it's three or four uh Muslims. Muslim schools sued the state for access to the school choice program because Hancock and Abbott had ordered something about institutions that have ties to terrorism, alleged ties to terrorism, not being permitted to get these. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 44:15

And even right now, as we are recording this, uh a judge granted Ken Paxton's motion to withdraw representation from the controller's office over this litigation because Kelly Hancock sent a letter to Paxton publicly slamming him for his representation in the case. And according to Paxton, allegedly kind of breaking or potentially breaking some of the attorney client privileges. And so Paxton said he was going to withdraw his representation. A judge has now just granted that withdrawal, which means the controller's office is going to have to go find outside counsel to then represent them in this litigation. So it's just a total mess of an issue.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

And it's a at the root of it all is a huge political fight. Political grudge match.

SPEAKER_02 45:03

Yeah, political fight. There's a lot of stuff going on.

SPEAKER_00 45:06

There probably is a big question about whether legally speaking this case can be won by the state.

SPEAKER_02 45:11

Yeah, honestly, I don't think the Attorney General's office is very sad to see this case uh go to somebody else because it it it's definitely a dog of a case. Uh and uh we'll see who picks it up. We've heard some rumors, but uh we'll know soon enough who who takes over that case for the controller's office. Uh but anyways, Hancock reignites the audit uh uh in March and at this point, according to the OAG's official story in that internal investigation that was broken first by Texas Bullpen to go and subscribe, um the chief of staff uh uh goes to other senior OAG officials and explains, allegedly for the first time, this issue with the hotel room uh billing. And uh uh the other OAG officials goes to the go to the uh first assistant and attorney general Paxton, and uh an investigation is ordered, which kind of unravels this whole uh sequence of events. And uh they say in the investigation, while it was a well-meaning attempt to save taxpayer dollars, they did it without proper authorization, and it created a substantial appearance of impropriety, right? Because you have these receipts here of a government paid room for a non-government official. Not good, and certainly not good if a political enemy is doing an audit on your agency.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

Well, and you know, even take the the tax dollar side out of it, just the the list of names on its own doesn't looks doesn't look great for nationals, big donors, other politicians who happen to be Yeah. And we've already seen the corn campaign come out with a heavy-handed statement against it. And uh for sure this is going to be used in the U.S. Senate runoff. I mean, no question about it. I'm sure they already have a an advert ad cut on this.

SPEAKER_02 47:13

Um anything else about this that uh I mean uh you know the story is continuing to develop. Uh definitely go and read the coverage in Texas Bullpen to kind of parse through it all.

SPEAKER_00 47:26

Uh we've got the original story about the internal investigation and we've got the documents from the controller's office. Aaron Powell The kind of a timeline of the audit and all that.

SPEAKER_02 47:37

And then just this morning, Thursday morning, we've released uh all of the internal documents from the OEG surrounding the rune block and stuff. So uh we uh in the words of old Joe uh McCarthy, we have here in our hand a list and it then we published it on the phone. You're really proud of that line, aren't you? I I I like I, you know, we just you know we love Joe, right?

SPEAKER_00 48:00

Do we?

SPEAKER_02 48:01

I don't know. I never met the guy. He's certainly quotable that's right. Yeah, he's quotable. We love a good quote.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

Okay, so yes, stay tuned on that. I'm sure there more stuff will happen will drop, whether it's by us or other outlets, like this is gonna be a continued story, and if nothing else is gonna be a continued story in the political fight with the election.

SPEAKER_02 48:20

And it's just really a fun, I think, snapshot of like what happens when you pop the hood in an agency.

SPEAKER_00 48:26

You know, how easily you have all these people working together on things who a lot of them don't like each other. You have uh turf rivalries.

SPEAKER_02 48:36

It's just so much, you know. Like we think until things go wrong, you never really think about how stuff works. Just like my car, which is in the shop right now, you know? I think it's magic. I turn the key and it works. But whenever I don't, it's all of a sudden I have to figure out what's wrong. And by that, I mean take it to the shop and let somebody who knows. We are the shop. We are the car shop of Texas politics. We'll pop the hood, break it down for you, give you a quote,$20 a month or$200 a year.

SPEAKER_00 49:05

Um You don't strike me as a very prolific car guy.

SPEAKER_02 49:09

I'm not a car guy.

SPEAKER_00 49:10

Can you even change your windshield wipers?

SPEAKER_02 49:12

Yes, I can change my windshield wipers, Brad. I'm gonna find a I'm gonna find a locker small enough for you and stuff you in it. Because a regular American locker American locker is too roomy for you.

SPEAKER_00 49:28

I'd like to see you try, you bean pole.

SPEAKER_02 49:30

Whoa. I'm not a bean pole. You think I'm skinny?

SPEAKER_00 49:38

Yeah, you're looking very, very thin.

SPEAKER_02 49:41

Really?

SPEAKER_00 49:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:43

Brad, that's the nicest thing you've ever said to me. Well, shoot, I'm blushing off the camera. All right. You can't hear that on the audio.

SPEAKER_00 49:51

No. But if you are watching, you could see Richie's face gets super red. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

People would say.

SPEAKER_00 50:02

Certainly not you.

SPEAKER_02 50:03

No, not I.

SPEAKER_00 50:04

Let's move on to another topic. Yeah, let's move on. Move on from your stupid face. Um so there was a Supreme Court case released this week, uh, a ruling, in uh I think it's Chiles is the is one of the um uh the the plaintiff in the case. Uh it was about a Colorado uh what was it? Um do you do you recall the the subject of this lawsuit? The Colorado lawsuit? Uh I gotta be honest. Conversion therapy. That's the word that was escaping me. The conversion therapy case. Sorry, I wasn't listening. We're not gonna get into the details of the ruling, but um some of the the tea leaf reading provides a a glimpse into what's probably to come on redistricting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:58

So Because all the other cases that were heard during that session have been uh issued, the rulings have been issued, and the only justice who hasn't issued uh a ruling about a case heard from that session is Justice Alito.

SPEAKER_00 51:13

And it is tradition that each of them at least pick up something an opinion on each of uh on a case in that session.

SPEAKER_02 51:22

So if you uh lick your finger and put it in the wind, what that could suggest is that Alito is riding the redistricting opinion.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 51:30

And if that's the case, it's probably really good for Republicans nationally.

SPEAKER_00 51:35

Yep. And just a recap of the case itself, it's Louisiana v. Calais, and it is a a challenge to the other half of section two of the Voting Rights Act. We saw one of the factors that precipitated Texas's redraw, one of them, not the only not the biggest one, but one of them, was the ruling in Petaway v. Galveston that knocked away one of or the first half of uh section two of the Voting Rights Act related to majority-minority coalition districts, meaning that uh districts that combine Hispanics and blacks into a majority in the district no longer needed to be predict uh protected by the VRA. That doesn't mean you have to get rid of them, but you no longer had to uh to to preserve them in order to comply with the VRA. Well in Calais, they're making the same argument or a similar argument about simple majority minority districts. So districts that have an uh 50% plus one black population. No longer do, if it goes this way, do those districts need to be preserved in order to comply. The history side of it is that this section and the VRA generally was created in the context of uh the Jim Crow South. And so it only applies, this restriction only applies to southern states that were uh part of that. Texas is one of them. And there's probably, I think the number was like, let's say 15 districts, congressional districts across the South that are Section 2 protected majority-minority districts.

SPEAKER_02 53:21

Like Louisiana has some and it stretches like almost from corner to corner in order to create because you know, sometimes there's not like a self-evident uh coalition district, but in order to abide by the VRA, you've got to kind of get creative with it sometimes, which is the argument against it. Uh and then additionally, like part of the VRA is if you've been determined to have conducted a uh racially discriminatory gerrymander for the next 10 years, you're basically put on probation if you're a southern state. You've got to get preclearance. Where you have to get pre-clearance from federal judges. And that has, you know, stinied a lot of the uh gerrymandering attempts in the uh South for whichever ruling party, you know, back when the Democrats still ran the South, versus today with Republicans, versus someplace like uh Illinois where you have uh you know your fajita strip stacked up.

SPEAKER_00 54:19

Yeah, they do.

SPEAKER_01 54:20

Sizzling fajita, and now I'm very hungry.

SPEAKER_00 54:22

There's when I when I was covering redistricting last year, one of my favorite things to to write in stories was that uh one of the districts in Illinois looks like a a hole on a golf course that my slice would play very well.

SPEAKER_02 54:38

I saw there is on on Wikipedia, I think, a gerrymandering alphabet where they have gone through and selected uh congressional districts that look like the letters. So you can like type up and you you can download it and use uh for your font, which I'm gonna write all my demand letters to you in this gerrymandering font. All of the attack pack advertisements will be in that font. Yeah, just like some serial killer or something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:10

Um so what does this mean practically speaking? We have seen It's a good question. We have seen the uh the Texas redistricting effort, along with in other states, uh, precipitated in order to for the Republicans to try and preserve their hold on the U.S. House, for Democrats to counteract any expected gains by Republicans in that regard. And especially with the way this cycle is looking, it's a lot more complicated than that. There's no guarantee Republicans pick up all of these five seats that they redrew. But the legal context for this is that if Calais goes Republicans' way, and keep in mind, Alito wrote the the opinion of the court that allowed Texas's redrawn map to stay in place. So that shows he's pretty friendly to the idea. And I think everyone's pretty much expecting it to go uh the GOP's way whenever the ruling comes out, it's just a question of how how far it goes, how far it extends. But if that section two, the other half of section two is knocked out, the predominating case law in most cases for redistricting will be rucho, which was a 2019 ruling that said partisan gerrymandering is non-justiceable.

SPEAKER_02 56:30

I'm so glad you're uh taking the lead on this section because I would have butchered every single one of these pronunciations. I would have said callus. I don't even know how rucho is spelled, but I'm sure I would have butchered everyone.

SPEAKER_00 56:43

Are you CHO? Well, it's a good thing. We both have our strengths, right?

SPEAKER_02 56:47

Sorry, I had to spell that slower in my head. I might have gotten Rucho, right?

SPEAKER_00 56:55

Definitely your switch just got flipped down. You're you're just timed out.

SPEAKER_02 57:04

Being a word person spelling, not great. Spell check uh is the only way I've made any money in life.

SPEAKER_00 57:10

Well, it's a good thing we have our esteemed editor, Cassie, to uh keep you in check. Who's here right now?

SPEAKER_02 57:16

Cassie, do you want to make a celebrity shot on the podcast? You want to come in here and sub in for me? Do the natural library tag in. Tag in, Cassie.

SPEAKER_00 57:25

Oh, she's gone. Oh we got it. I can't believe that happened. No, I'm okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 57:30

Oh well, I'm okay.

unknown 57:31

I I prefer to be behind the camera.

SPEAKER_00 57:32

She says she's okay. I figured that would happen. But she almost did it. She almost did it. She's out of that. Well, fear not, dear listeners, because Cassie will make an appearance in a couple weeks when I am out of town and Richie and Cassie are taking lead on the podcast. So she will make her triumphant return then.

SPEAKER_02 57:48

Which we've never done a podcast together. It'll be our first, and it will be a blast and a half. I can guarantee you it's a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 57:54

Can I finish this redistricting section?

SPEAKER_02 57:56

No, I'm gerrymandering you out. Uh you guys will never want Brad on the podcast again because Cassie and I will be so intelligent, witty, and charming that you'll be like very bored by this pole-ish guy.

SPEAKER_00 58:10

Okay. Let me finish this and then we'll move on. Uh you didn't want to offend me. Okay. I would never offend you, Brad. No. Um So if Rucho is the predominant factor, then basically legislatures across the state will have license to redraw whenever they want without much of any obstacle. We've already seen state legislators in Texas talk about this, redrawing districts next session. It is far more than just state house members that are talking about this. The top of state leadership is talking about this. There's a very real chance, if this uh ruling goes that way, that we are here in 27 watching another mid-decade redistricting unfold for all maps, not just congressional maps. So that is the the realpolitic implications of this. Uh, it's not just highfalutin legal theory. Uh, it will play into a knockdown, drag out, bruising fight over partisan redistricting once again.

SPEAKER_02 59:14

And we will be here for it all.

SPEAKER_00 59:17

Uh we added a couple other topics, but I think we'll just close it out now because I think Cassie wants to go to lunch. Um, she's giving us the hook. Uh so with that, we hope you enjoyed the renewed episode of Texas Bullpen Podcast. Give us a like, uh, give us a little review, five-star review.

SPEAKER_02 59:35

If you liked it, if you liked it, give us a review. If you don't, just shut up.

SPEAKER_00 59:39

Yeah, go go to another podcast if you don't like it. Um, but we see the numbers each week go up and up and up.

SPEAKER_02 59:44

So I think people are like it's I mean, many people say that this is what they live for every week is our podcast, which is why we felt so bad last week not doing it, but we will do our best never to leave you without our wonderful analysis and uh uh in our humility more than anything else. You know, people have told me I'm the most humble guy ever.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:09

That's fake news.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:10

You know, in the in the uh in the scriptures, right, Moses is supposed to have written the first five books of the Bible, and in one of those books, it's said that Moses was the most humble guy. Oh yeah. It's like relatable. That's my type of dude. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:28

Well, with that, we will catch you all next week. Thanks for listening.