Texas Bullpen Podcast
Listen to the weekly Texas Bullpen podcast to stay up to date on all things Texas politics with hosts Brad Johnson, Jonathan Richie, and Cassi Schredder, along with special guests.
Texas Bullpen Podcast
Rep. Buckley Talks Electricity, Education, and the November Election - Episode 41
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
State Rep. Brad Buckley joins the program to discuss 765-kV transmission lines, data centers, education, and the all-important election this fall.
Good morning everyone. Welcome to the Texas Bullpen Podcast. This is Brad Johnson, co-founder and reporter here with Chairman Brad Buckley. Brad, how's it going? I'm doing great. Hey, thanks for having me on the podcast.
SPEAKER_00Look forward to great conversation.
SPEAKER_02Thanks for joining. And uh we are, of course, in the middle of an interim, uh, which has been fairly short as far as typically interims go, although maybe that's changing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it feels like it. I've been uh this is my fourth term, and I believe I've hadn't been in nine special sessions. Yeah. Uh so you can do the math on that. I don't know if it's a record, but uh I don't know anything different really. It does feel like special sessions are no longer special. No, they're we're gonna have to change the name. We're just gonna have to call it like the next little mini session or something. Yeah, it's it's becoming pretty uh pretty typical. Uh but you know, uh it's it's been really interesting. Yeah and uh you know lots of good stories, and uh there have been some of them we sort of stood around, you know, we had quorum breaks and and all that stuff, and you kind of sit there and twiddle your thumbs till till you kind of get back to work. So it was you know it'd be interesting for the uh you know to tell the grandkids one day.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's entertaining on my side of things, but when you're the one there that has to sit there and pull your thumbs up to the phone.
SPEAKER_00You know, when you when you really need to be back uh you know at home uh making a living, it's uh a little frustrating, especially if you don't if you're not there conducting business.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. If you were to uh put the odds, if we were buying futures contracts on events, i.e. CalShi, what would be the odds be of having a special session next year, you think? Oh my goodness. Let's think.
SPEAKER_00Um 65 percent. Okay. Okay. Well, there you go. We heard it here. Cancel your summer plague. Yeah. Oh yeah, that's kind of we keep it uh we keep our schedule pretty loose, you know, as opposed to, you know, don't make a big deposit on something you can't get a return on. That's kind of a refund.
SPEAKER_02Part of the deal with the part-time legislature. But uh well, thanks for joining. And uh we've got a few topics we want to touch on. I think the biggest one, at least as far as uh you go right now, is the 765 transmission lines. Yeah. Uh just to table set a bit that is the uh statewide network of larger uh transmission lines across the state to try and uh increase the amount of capacity of electrons that can be carried back and forth. That was, of course, uh at least somewhat of a product of HP 5066 back in 23, right? Although there's some dispute about um what all that bill entailed. I'm sure we'll get into that. But uh you've kind of been raising hell about it. You were not happy with these lines. Give me your your opinion so far on this.
SPEAKER_00Sure. Well, you know, I think I I really break it down into a couple of different sections. The first of all, uh the first one is is really the policy behind um what we're doing and and and the reason we're you know why we're doing it. And and so when I look at that, I look at it in terms of um House Bill 5066 and what was intended to be a regional transmission upgrade and some increase in dispatchable dependable generation to serve a very important part of Texas. And uh the Permian Basin is important to the Texas economy. I've always supported uh, you know, um, you know, our our fossil fuels and oil and gas exploration and the good things that happen out there. And there is a need to energize that part of Texas. Uh but uh, you know, if you really look at the way it's played out, uh I think um House Bill 5066 uh really gave on core an inch, but instead they took thousands of miles and really have used this as a um as an excuse, if you will, uh to begin the build-out of a statewide um transmission plan that I believe is best left in the hands of the legislature so that uh citizens, uh landowners, and our constituency can be heard on this. This thing is really coming kind of coming under the radar, and um, you know, that leads to the second part. So you have the policy uh discussion, and the other part has been the way that e even the way this is rolled out, uh, you know, the notice provisions, uh the scale of it have really left a lot of landowners behind. You know, you had some landowners that were notified and had 10 months uh to prepare to find legal counsel, and you had other landowners that had 27 days, of which there were there was no counsel um left. I mean you can always hire a lawyer, but you know, this is pretty specialized stuff, and all the lawyers who were qualified to do this at all the either working for other landowners or heck, they're working for Encore. So you know that's that has been my contention is that the process has just been wrong. The policy is backwards, and uh I believe we need generation first policy, uh we need to reform the market so that we get the type of uh energy generation we need. And this, you know, this makes billions and billions of dollars in investments to me that that that are really built upon a renewable energy model, not one that's really built around you know gas, uh natural gas powered dispatchable energy generation.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell So the if you look at the map of the lines, there's three general lines that go horizontally, one up in North Texas, one through central Texas, which goes through your district, and then one through South Texas. Encore's not building all of those. I think they have two of the three they they have m multiple sections of the lines, including the one that goes through the Hill Country, but like AEP has the one that goes through South Texas. L CRA's got L CRA, yeah. Um you mentioned market reforms, and uh you know a big reason why, probably the biggest reason why, we've seen uh a lack of development of thermal power is because of federal tax credits making it a lot cheaper for investment to go to renewable energy. The question that the legislature has been trying to figure out for years now, since URI, is how do we fix that? Do you have any ideas on market reforms to fix that?
SPEAKER_00Well, the Trump administration really uh ended all those uh tax credits on July the 4th as part of the big beautiful bill.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that repeal that was in the IRA?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Okay. So that's I think that's important. But yet yet you really have to begin to separate this type of energy generation. You know, what I recall about URI was was getting within four minutes of basically 90% of Texas going dark. You know, and that's not hyperbole. I mean, we were we were that close. And so, you know, as we studied it and looked at it and looked at why we needed uh, you know, what we needed to do to make sure it never happened again, we knew that we were way too relevant on reliable on renewable energy like wind and solar. And so when the sun didn't shine and the wind didn't blow, we we didn't have any power. And the market is configured to where there is such an advantage to the renewables that the market signals don't really support the dispatchable energy generation. Natural gas, coal, nuclear, the things that you know we think about dispatchable. Dispatchable is a funny word. If you if you try to do a text, it will autocorrect, it it doesn't recognize the word. But what it means is it's energy, it's reliable energy generation that you can turn off and on. You can rev it up, you can turn it down, and when you need it, you can turn it on and get it. And so, you know, that's that's what we failed to do in my mind, is we we we have to get that part right. If not, we're we're we're kind of playing with fire again in terms of what happens when we have an event, and then all of a sudden we look at the grid and we're like, we are basically mainly reliable or relying on renewable energy. You know, it's gonna be part of our mix, it's part of that suite and that that menu of things we can use, but we have to get it right or we're we're not solving the problem that really was exposed back in 21.
SPEAKER_02And the reason for HP 5066 and the Permian Basin Power Plan is that uh oil and gas operations are increasingly becoming electrified. Yes. Whereas previously they were powered on natural gas out there, um, heavily so at least. And so the legislature passed this bill in order to uh get electrons out there uh and back because out in West Texas, that's where all the land, a lot of the wind is. South Texas has this too, but uh that's where you see the the wind turbines and the solar farms. Um but uh that was the the pretense for this. And you're arguing that uh that was uh that was passed by the legislature, but things have gone a lot further than you all plan.
SPEAKER_00And so really what you have is you have three import paths that you described. You know, you've got the North Texas, Central Texas, and a South Texas, what they call import one import path one, two, and three. So if you could imagine what you're doing is basically you're you're using renewable energy, basically wind and solar, to energize uh the most fossil fuel fuel-rich place on God's green earth. And you know, I you know, if you talk to anybody that and you try to apply some common sense to this, why in the world would you wouldn't you generate power locally, you know, upgrade uh local transmission as required in House Bill 5066 and use that to make sure that we have reliable natural gas and oil production as opposed to saying we're just going to try to leverage again these renewables. We have renewables up and down the I-35 corridor in terms of solar. I mean, between Bell and Mylam in Falls County in Central Texas, there's about 120 to 150,000 acres of once prime farmland under glass. And uh, you know, some of it has been damaged in some recent storms. Uh it's um, you know, it's it's been a point of contention about this valuable farmland, and so we're literally betting on this again. And so uh, you know, I just think we need to refocus this. Let's get the Permian Basin energized with local generation and uh regional transmission upgrades. But then if we're going to do a statewide plan, let's reform the generation policy, let's be let's do generation first and then couple that with smart transmission. And 765s may play a role in that, but landowners need notice and they need the opportunity to have counsel. And this compressed timeline does not fit a project that is as large and as of the scale that this one is. And so um, you know, my uh my constituents are just really they've just been steamrolled. And uh, you know, these are these are good folks that um you know just want to, you know, they want to they want a farm, they want a ranch, um and and they want to they they just want their their property rights to be respected and they want to know why we're doing this, and the and and this project does not make sense to them.
SPEAKER_02The um you mentioned the the difference in the the notice periods, and uh my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, is that the line has changed and therefore uh you know people who were notified originally uh some of them the line isn't is no longer affecting their property and it moved elsewhere for various reasons, whether it was you know avoiding going over houses, whether it was uh trying to use uh existing right-of-ways, or you know, various reasons that uh over the course of development the line got shifted. Is that correct?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So you look at back in June of 2025 when the original notice went out, um landowners that were impacted by sort of the the route segments at that time were notified. Um what I would argue be very feeble attempts at public meetings were held. They were very poor I didn't even realize they were happening in my own district, by the way. And so they held a public meeting in Bell County and they they uh acquired a room, oh, that probably holds 150 people, and about 600 people showed up. And they have a bunch of easels out there, so it's a little bit of a dog and pony show. You know, so you're just you know, you're not really having an open dialogue. You're you're walking around looking at the map, and they're you know, they're telling you, you know, and anyway, it was it was um I didn't go because I didn't know. Um so we began to engage after that, and what we found is that those those landowners, and rightly so, uh acquired counsel, and then they, you know, there were structures you know that were impacted and other reasons and developments that were being planned, all that pay fair and square. Well, then about April 1st, 1,300 new parcels were notified, April 1st to 26th, and the deadline to intervene was April 27th. So you had a group of landowners with about a 10-month head start, and then a new, I would say 1,300 parcels with more than 2,000 owners because some were family properties and owned by multiple folks that were notified 27 days before the deadline, and you could not find an attorney in the, you know, and so then you have to be a pro se intervener, which is really, I mean, it's like um, you know, it's like me trying to hit a baseball that that you know Nolan Ryan's pitching, you know, just not gonna happen. You know, and so you know, that's the process. I think that's a little bit of of of of the plan, is that if you look at these import paths, I think you kind of you literally overload the process to the point to where people squawk until they just realize they're up against you know, Goliath. And um it's just real disappointing, you know, quite frankly. And I'm I've just been um you know doing everything I can to to to to get this thing paused and then let's return to the original intent of the bill and then in the 90th, put it in the hands of the legislature. That's what we do, you know, and so that's that's the that to me is the most important thing is getting a pause on the project. Let's you know, let's not get, you know, the transmission companies get paid to transmit. All right. It's guaranteed return. It's a heck of a deal if you can get it. So of course they're going to want to build transmission lines, but we need to build them in the right place at the right time, but but also to move energy that's produced by the right sources of generation. And that's what this doesn't get right.
SPEAKER_02Uh and and so you mentioned you were asking for a pause, and that was part of your filing along with uh a coup a few dozen other legislators in the uh the SOA hearing about this uh planned transmission line. Where's that stand? Any update legally on that?
SPEAKER_00Aaron Ross Powell Well we're still you know, we're still waiting, we've got the pause, we've we've um, you know, it's a pause of a a portion of a segment or a decision on a segment, which is helpful. But then it still doesn't reach our ultimate goal, which is to say, wait a minute. Okay, you know, let's let's look at this uh through the legislative process. If you go back um to the Kres um debate that was years ago in the in, you know, I think they finalized in 2010 or whenever it did, but but at the end of the day, that ended up sort of as a legislative um solution. And I think this deserves that because if you really look at what's going on, you're looking at the import pass to really be the ribs that attach to the spine of the statewide plan. It's just what it is. And so uh, you know, if we're gonna do that, let's let let's do it in a manner where everyone gets a voice uh and and and we can be real smart about how we do it. But you've got to couple that with with with with reforms that make sure you get the type of energy production you need. That's the part I just cannot come to terms with is why aren't we we know what works and what doesn't, yet we're we're kinda you know, you talk to Urcott, you talk to the Public Utilities Commission, I'll say, yeah, we need more dispatchable generation. Well, why don't we do it? Well, you know, we need to reform the markets. Well, why don't we do it? You know, well, you know, I'm like, well, so we're gonna take to me, you're kind of doubling down on what got us in trouble in the first place, uh and you're doing it in a way that disrupts more landowners, uh, costs more money, it's gonna have a hard uh uh impact on on driving up the cost of electricity for for folks. And uh, you know, it's just we we we need to pause and and be more thoughtful about a project of this scale.
SPEAKER_02The um uh in 23 uh y'all debated until the cows came home and you finally reached an agreement on somewhat of a market reform, but basically the best y'all could do, could agree on was creating these um uh outside uh systems, whether it was the DRRS or uh the uh I forget the name of it, it's defunct now, the PRC or something like that. Um but the basically all the best you could do to incentivize the uh gener the building of new dispatchable generation was to offer uh a different kind of a side market, essentially. Yeah. Um there was no wholesale reform. Do you think that's even feasible if you all get into session?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know we we want a market, right? Yeah. But at the end of the day, on something as important as reliable energy generation, you've got to value reliability in some way. You've got to figure out a way to value that where where it has where the market will want to purchase that. And I think also um pausing and having this broader discussion will allow Texans to understand okay, here's what happened in 21. This is what is necessary to make sure that that doesn't happen again. And uh I you know I'm certain it can be done because when you talk to the folks at ERCOT, they will tell you it is really important. If you look at the the new generation that's on the grid now, it is a a vast predominance of renewables. And um, you know over the last 20 years. Over 20 years and even recently, since URI, I mean the the new power that's coming online. But the good news is you do have some generators making investments in um in in the Permian Basin where we could solve those issues. Vistus got a couple of plants coming online here pretty soon. Um, you know, if we could fix the transmission part out there, you could make sure you had reliable fossil fuel production and then take this discussion on to what we really need to do statewide. Instead of reaching out with thousands of miles of transmission lines impacting thousands and thousands of landowners, um, most that don't have adequate legal counsel under a compressed timeline, and you're just like, well, we'll just we're gonna ram it through. And that's what it it feels like that, and I'm sure there's different opinions on that. But uh, as someone that represents landowners and is a landowner in Central Texas, that is that is what's happening on the ground.
SPEAKER_02Trevor Burrus This state is is booming in population and economic footprint, and that is really the reason that this is being looked at, um, at least at its at its uh uh at its root. Um there's gonna have to be an expansion of of uh transmission at some point, right, with how much we're growing. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's congestion in the in the you know in the grid and and those things need to happen. Um but you know, we've think about this. You also have these other decisions that have to be made. We have to look at what we're gonna do with the energy requirements and the grid impact of data centers. You're gonna have to look at at, you know, if you co-generate or quote, bring your own power and you build a power plant that serves a data center, that's gonna use a, you know, that's gonna use a lot of water. You know, so there's all these dis all these important decisions, and now we, you know, we're we're we're looking at the data center thing going, we need to put some safeguards and some guardrails or whatever you want to call it on that and figure out a policy, but you're kind of building out this transmission system in the meantime that's gonna impact your you know what what that decision will be. And uh I think that that that some of that you know lack of real structure, if if you really look at ERCOT's studies, you know, it's a it's a it's a little bit of a guess as to what you know these these big hyperscalers are going to go going to bring in terms of need. And so if you don't have all that data and they're not reporting their data to the PUC, that was something you brought up in the hearing the other day, yeah. So we're flying blind, they don't want a one-size one-size policy, you know, uh one size fits all policy. Well, as I said, if you want to, you know, the best way to get one is to not tell us you know what you're doing, let us not, you know, you make smart decisions about what works and what doesn't work for Texas. And uh, you know, so that's that that's you know basically where why we need this pause. You know, this is this is more than just about the Permian Basin. And if this was only about the Permian Basin, I'd be okay with it if we were regional transmission upgrades and generation in the Permian Basin. But it is not. It is it has been the gateway um to something much larger that to me, it's it's a little cart before the horse and there's a policy discussions that need to take place first.
SPEAKER_02Last question I want to ask you about 765s before I'll move on to data centers. Um the the decision was made as as I understand it again, was by the agencies to move forward with a 765 plan, uh both because they felt the um the you know tr transmission capacity was necessary, but also they wanted to hit the the least amount of landowners. Because if you do 365s, that is likely, maybe not uh definitively gonna require a a a build-out that touches more people. Um and in the end, somebody's gonna get screwed. Yeah. Is that you think that's fair?
SPEAKER_00No, that that's one of the arguments that say, well, 765s are or better because you'd have to have two, three forty-fives or what have you. I'm not arguing that that may not be the case, but if you look at these routes, there's very little co-location in existing easements. You have many times where it doesn't even ride a fence line. It just it just you know just stabs a dagger in the heart a property for miles and miles and miles. And in Bell County, if you go to one route option on the north side to the to the furthest south route option, it there the largest distance between the two is twenty seven miles. I mean, they are stacked on top of each other. The routes are the thing is if it doesn't get you, it's gonna get your neighbor. You know, and so you know, we need to to To look at that. Meanwhile, you have a gas-powered plant in Temple, gas-powered generator, that operates at 50% capacity because they can't compete in the market with all the renewables. You know what I mean? So there's just an example again of this. And it's going to go north and south. So, you know, I'm not, you know, uh I'm not saying we don't need new transmission, but it ought to be done in a manner where the legislature kind of sets forth the statewide plan. If, you know, don't use this other project as somehow the uh the seed to the statewide plan when it just isn't.
SPEAKER_02A friend of mine who was uh he wasn't designing the deregulation back then, but he was around and operating at the time and was a big proponent of it. And he told me the other day, the way I see where this is going is the because of the renewables, because of uh that uh uh, as critics say, market distortion of that and the inability to make money as a thermal power generator, uh it's going back to a capacity market. That's really the only thing y'all can do. What do you think of that?
SPEAKER_00You know, I I just I I just believe that we have to have the opportunity to have the have the discussion about how we can make how we can value reliability and dispatchability. You know, that's what that's what the market doesn't do now. You know, it just doesn't. And so um you know that but again, is that not foundation that found that that is the foundation conversation about all this? And and my my constituents are this if if we looked at it and we had you know public hearings and we talked about this in in in an open, transparent setting in Austin during a legislative session, when everyone could weigh in and we could hear from the experts and we could we could do what we do and do the sausage making of governance, right? And it came down, we said, you know what, we're gonna have to have to have some 765 transmission lines, and here's why, here's how we're gonna keep the lights on in Bell County, here's how we're gonna make sure that you know that that when we have a next you know big winter event that your your power's not gonna go off, here's how we're gonna keep your your your uh energy costs low. If we did that, my folks are ready to say, all right, but you know, this, the idea that we're gonna disrupt sort of the hopes and dreams and these legacy properties, you know, and other properties, you have, you know, I've I've got a neighbor down the road that, you know, served 30-something years in the military, deployed all over the world, buys a little piece of Texas, gets everything just like he wants it, and you look up and all of a sudden, there you go on April the 1st of 2026. Oh my goodness, I'm right in the pathway. And I can't find an attorney. You know, and here's what they'll tell you, and this is what really gripes me. They'll tell you things like, well, we're following the law. Man, on this deal, the law is the low bar. And that's what really gripes me is the law is the low bar. And and what we ought to be doing is they ought to be looking at this as the real impact on rural Texans. And for us as Republicans, for me as a Republican, the idea that we're gonna take for granted these folks in rural Texas and we're gonna, you know, those that have been there for us time and time again, is absolutely insane. And so I am uh I'm frustrated that rural Texas sort of keeps we keep, you know, getting the bill for some of this. You know, uh this last thing, what are we talking about transmission? I'll drive in a little bit. But yeah, but here's what I would what it would say. A friend of mine down the road um when I was at a public meeting, and it was a small little country church, and I bet 400 people showed up. I first realized this is different, okay, this is a different thing. And I've known him all my life. I'm nearly 60 years old, he's over 80, and he put his arm around me and said, I love you, but your Texas miracle has become my Texas nightmare. And that resonated. And I'm just telling, I'm just I'm here to here to preach to anybody that'll listen. You need to listen to that. And that's um, you know, at that point I was like, you know, we've I've got I've got to figure this out. And the more I dug into it and the more I looked into it, the more um I studied the notice parts and um and then the generation piece, you know, that's when I said, No, I can't be quiet. We we gotta do something about this.
SPEAKER_01Hi everyone. We'd like to thank the sponsor of today's podcast, the Lowy Law Firm. For over twenty years, Adam Lowy has helped injured Texans recover and heal. From car accidents to dog bites, Adam Lowy is there to help and gets results. Go to LowyLawfirm.com to find out more and get a free consultation. Adam, of course, is very well known on Twitter for his commentary and observations on Texas politics, so be sure to give him a follow as well. Thanks to our sponsor, the Lowy Law Firm.
SPEAKER_02The other side of this general fight is data centers. Yeah. And that's been that's caused uh quite a predicament for state leaders, particularly in rural areas, and that's where we're seeing most of the backlash. Uh Governor Abbott came out and issued some directives. Y'all are gonna have to take a swing at this next year. What what's your what are your thoughts on on how this has developed and what y'all need to do on that topic?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, you know, there's there's been an interesting sort of confluence of coalitions against data centers, you know, at least in Bell County. And uh it's um it's been in it's influenced by by lots of different groups. There's some organic real concern from neighbors and farmers and and and folks that are really concerned about the impact you know that they'll have to their way of life and their ability to make a living and and kind of the future. And there's a lot of politics being played in there too, you know, and so when you parse through all that, you know, what what I know is is you we've got to have accurate data. We've got to know the water deal, we've got to know how much water that they're consuming, whether how you know what system they're using, what that looks like, what's their impact on the grid, what's it on on local um, you know, electricity rates, um, you know, just usage in general. Um and then again, I think there's something else that we kind of miss the mark on is what I call community character. You know, rural Texas has a certain way of life, and and you know, you don't have to get you know far off of I-35 to understand that that rural folks get it. No one's anti-growth. But we're also I would say we want smart growth and we'd like a seat at the table. And so I think that's what this discussion can can give us, is that you know, give our local elected some tools to vet these projects. I mean, you you read articles, and if you can believe what you read, you know, you'll read articles where there'll be projects that'll be really significant, pretty, pretty far down the road, not pretty shy of groundbreaking, and sometimes local officials have no idea it's happening. You know, and so you know, what do we do to make sure? You know, this is not it's just kind of a different segment. It's nearly as if they need to be, you know, these things, because of the the water and the and and the power, they nearly need to be looked at as its as its own type of category, maybe. You know, maybe that's the the the the way to look forward. And then at the at the end of the day, we have to be serious about what why we what is the the the the case for data centers. And I think a lot of folks are very aware that there is a race between our country and China, and that being able to compute at this level is important as we chase quantum computing, as we uh you know, as we we make sure that we win that race. And so, you know, again in rural Texas, the people that I know, they want to win this deal. They'd just like to be at the table. Again, you know, we can't we can't just keep going around them. You know, these are smart people, these are good people. They love their country and they love the state of Texas. And so let's, you know, let's get everybody at the table, let's get the facts out before us, and then let's come up with some policy and give our, you know, I think local electeds ought to ought to have the tools to to hash it out and and work it out.
SPEAKER_02One of the the other more domestic focused advantages of these is particularly for local governments, they see it as a way to and rural uh local localities who uh have been starved of any real industry um in development, the the ability to plug budget holes. You know, that's something we're hearing a lot from a lot of these localities.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, if you look at the uh the value, the praise value, the taxable value um that that can be placed on the tax rolls, that's um that's certainly something that that perks the ears of uh of local leaders. Uh and I think that that's important. What I also think, or another reason you need to have a a real you know smart discussion about this is what's the staying power. You know, because you know I've talked to some folks as I as I've gone around and and and and find out people that that that that operate in that area and know know more about technology and and all that new development than I do. And some will say, you know, this thing probably has a runway of a certain amount of time, and then we'll be on to the next way to do this. Uh so you know, I think that that's important. You know, I've looked at some of the impact uh for some school districts in West Texas. I've worked with a colleague of mine in the legislature and we've looked at it, and some of these proposed projects, their value is so great that over about five years it literally buys down, pays off all the debt the school district has. Well, that's enticing, you know, to take that burden off your taxpayers. But then what we don't know is is you know, some of these are sort of enterprise projects for individual companies, where others are sort of like data center strip malls. You know, they build a big building and they plug in different tenants, if you will. Well, you know, what's the depreciation schedule on all the innards? You know, what's that gonna look like? And then how do we, you know, is that revenue sustainable? And so my my advice, if if anybody cares, would be that local governments be real cautious about long-term commitments of these dollars until we really realize what these things are gonna do over time.
SPEAKER_02The uh the one of the uh things I've heard from the industry, particularly about uh uh these facilities that are engaging with particularly rural areas, is that injection of financing can allow I think that the example I heard was up in the panhandle, I can't remember exactly where, but uh it allowed them to r or theoretically reach a new water supply that they previously could not reach. Um that seems to be a pretty big advantage.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, you you'll look at story, you know, I've I've I've looked around the country, you know, and and parts of Texas, and you'll see data center developers um, and I don't know if we've seen this in Texas yet, but in one state I was reading about, well, they just built a new school for a school district. You know, they've uh needed road improvements because where they want to put this thing, they you know, they needed some upgrades on infrastructure. Well, they just built new roads. You know what I mean? So they want to do it really bad. You know, I think that's another thing. I don't think you have to, you know, you you don't have to give away the farm to get these things. You you know, if if they you know, the necessity to do this type of thing is important, but it doesn't negate the fact that you need, you know, you need to look at all sides of it. You know, and I I think that's where, you know, when I talk to local electeds, you know, from county commissioners to city council people all over Bell County, they sometimes they just don't there's not a lot of information. You know, when they come to testify for planning and zoning, well then you know, well, we can't release that. You know, there's there's it's a little cryptic, you know, and so we've got to figure out a way where where folks have all the information um so that they can uh you know make the best decision for their community. Because no, you know, no nobody wants to you know make a bad decision on these things. But there's just it a lot of it's sort of behind a curtain, and so we we we don't have the information to make the good decisions.
SPEAKER_02Shifting to a new topic and more of your bread and butter since you are chairman of the Public Education Committee in the House. Last year y'all passed a very large uh school finance package. Um how how do you see that having worked out so far as you see that the money actually reached schools or or not reached schools, depending on the situation?
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell Yeah, of course, you know, we as we pass a bill like that, we we come out with runs, you know, we get the uh LBB to you know to look at the model that the bill provides, and we we estimate property values and we estimate enrollments and those things, and we come up with runs. And for the most part, it's been pretty accurate. Uh there are some districts that have that we've had some some bumps in the roads, what I call some unintended consequences. You know, I think that speaks to the complexity of the school finance uh system in Formula in Texas, where you can put $8.5 billion into a system and then do the runs and you'll get a handful of districts that lose money. That's a head scratcher.
SPEAKER_02You know, that's I I've heard uh for years that uh people say there's five people in this state that understand the school finance system. Uh and without a missing a beat, each one of them says, and I'm not one of them.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it it's it's in extremely complicated. We should make sure they all get a physical every year and take good care of themselves and eat healthy. Um but yeah, it is that complicated. But but we did see a historic teacher pay raise. You saw raises from $8,000 to $2,500 depending on the uh size of the school district. You saw the doubling of the allotment for school safety, both per campus and per kid, great investments in early literacy. Um we had um, you know, educator prep programs. I think this is really goes under the radar. We invested in in programs that will get more certified teachers into the classroom and they'll give them better um pre-service training, and that is, you know, like a residency. It's kind of teaching the or or or creating or making the teacher profession, the educator profession more like the medical profession, where you really get paid to be a teacher resident. And these are sprouting up all over Texas, and our our ed prep programs at our universities are really, you know, they're they're digging in on these things, and this is gonna be good for us. So the bill did a lot of great things, but like any bill of that size, there's gonna be things that need to be worked on. Anything in particular? I I think we need to look at some of the districts that that that we're looking at maybe where it didn't work out for them. You know, I've I've been an advocate of of going on and using the unintended consequence provision in the bill to make sure that these these districts are are really held harmless so they can they have the revenues they expected. Um you know, the other thing that we're we're dealing with is this decline in enrollment. You know, this is a real thing. And and uh, you know, it's been declining for years. And uh, you know, one of the districts in um in in my district, uh the the enrollment is down about six percent since 2019. And why do you think that is? Well, I think it's birth rate, and I think you're seeing a shift. Uh, you know, with COVID, I think a lot of a lot of folks have have decided that they can work, there's a lot more remote work. And if you go to the little districts in Bell County, you're seeing these little neighborhoods pop up and you go through there, they're all got a bunch of kids, you know, and so they're like, you know, we want this small town, rural Texas life that we've talked about, and because I can work remotely, or I only go to the office two days a week, and I can drive from Holland, Texas to to Austin a couple days a week and I can live with that. In the meantime, my my kids will go to this school district, this rural Texas school district with six, seven hundred kids, A-rated, you know, just awesome school. And so making those type of choices. So there's a shift, but at the end of the day, there's just fewer kids. We're having fewer fewer children. And that's a you know, that's and that's that has staying power. And so we have to we have to deal with that. And next session we will we have to grapple with what that looks like in this decline in enrollment environment. And and how do we make sure that that our school districts can plan for the future, but also have a soft landing. You know, we can't just pull the rug out from under them. Uh and so, you know, I'm I'm I'm we're engaged on those issues and we've got some some ideas and and lots of members are talking about that.
SPEAKER_02Uh you mentioned teacher retention earlier uh with the salary, and that of course is is part of it. But an arguably bigger side of it, um, or maybe right even with it is is student discipline. And I know Representative Jeff Leach had a bill last session. I think that, if I remember correctly, that did pass, right? Yeah. House Bill 6. But this is such an all-encompassing problem. Yeah. And frankly, I don't know how anyone would go about solving this. Uh but what do you what do you think of this issue? Is there more that needs to be done on that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, probably. So all big bills you know need to be cleaned up and and we need to make sure that we get the right reforms in place. House Bill 6 is a great step forward. It was months and months and months of work between legislative offices and 37 or 38 school districts of all different sizes across Texas, a real coalition to reform Chapter 37, which is the discipline code. And we have a great start. But at the end of the day, we have to create an environment where teacher, the teacher has the authority to maintain control and discipline so that the kids can learn. Too often, a a classroom teacher spends so much time dealing with with a very small number of students that are disruptive that it is robbing the other students from the opportunity of good instructional time. And it just is. There's only so many hours, or in our instance, like this, so many minutes in a day. Yeah. And so we've got to be able, you know, we've got to return to the day where the teachers can say, we're not gonna do this. You've got to go. And um, you know, what we found, what was shocking to me early on was just the fact that how early this starts. You know, very, very young kids, you know, four or five, six years old in certain circumstances can be extremely disruptive. And and we really had very little ability to give the teachers any relief. And so we gotta we gotta we we gotta continue to work on that one. That when I go to schools and visit with teachers, discipline comes up number one, or the the inability to to have strong discipline policies. And you know, if we're gonna get the outcome part right, we we've got to get that classroom uh environment part right. And and that's a key part. And then um Chairman Leach did a great job on that bill. Is you know, any bill like that's very contentious. Um lots of different groups that are pushing back over this or that. Um but it was a it's a great bill, and and you know, we'll continue, we'll monitor that bill and then we'll come back with any reforms necessary.
SPEAKER_02Is it as simple as just getting them out of the classroom in that moment?
SPEAKER_00Or is there well it it runs the gamut? Here's the thing you have a lot of kids with some behavior problems that really that that started years before they got to the classroom. So you've got to have the supports in place. You know, I think all children, I don't think any child wants to be disruptive. Uh so you've got to have those supports. And and that's that that's that line you walk. You've got to make sure that you know a lot of kids can't be there. You know what I mean? They they can't continue to behave like that because they're imp impacting 15 other kids and the teacher, and sometimes it's even gets violent. But at the end of the day, we have to understand and try to understand and provide supports as to why is a child, you know, behaving in that way. And there's always a reason. My wife's been in education for 33 years. Gosh, don't don't don't do the math on that one. She'll she'll kill me. But you know, that is is has has remained one of the toughest things, is and that's creating that environment um you know, where kids can learn. But then when a child is removed, whatever it's hard. You you know, you you can't snap your fingers. It it requires you know behavior therapists and and it re you know, here's the it also requires, you know, parental partnership. You know, the idea about parental empowerment, you know, we you gotta have empowerment, you gotta have responsibility. You know, parents have to take a role in that. And and uh, you know, if parents aren't working with schools to help their kids behave better, we will we will never get it right.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Ross Powell Well, I mean that's the that's the thing that you can't really address legislatively at all. Um if if parents aren't engaged uh with their children and taking ownership of them, then what anything y'all do, anything y'all put into law or anything teachers try and do is is just uh tinkering at the margins, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean it is it's gonna ta it's gonna take all of that and a realization, I think, that uh you know, a child that's disruptive is losing that opportunity to learn. And I think that at the end of the day, if we can, you know, whatever the the issues are uh with uh emotional issues, behavioral issues, you know, regul regulation issues, if you can get that right, then the best way to get a kid really on track is to challenge them and for them to learn. And and what that does is it's it's like momentum. You know, just watch kids. I've got three, and when things click, they move on to the next. They like it. The brain is built to do it. And so once you get that right, you know, that part will help. And and I think a lot of kids dis are disruptive because they feel like they don't that they don't know, they don't they don't know what they do. They're supposed to know. And we get that right, that's going to fix a lot of that. And you have a lot of teachers will tell you that. They'll see a kid that's a little disruptive. Then once you get them engaged and like they learn to read and they unlock the code, if you will, that it's like that, you know. So you know, that's I just think that that part's important, you know. And if we can get that right, we can we can make a big difference.
SPEAKER_02Last topic. Uh the election, of course, is on everybody's mind and it uh has the makings of a a bad to a pretty bad one for Republicans, your party. Uh there's a lot of question about uh you know how many seats do Democrats gain in the in the Texas House. Um I don't know if you've been on the the the Democratic target list, but if you're not on it, you're really cle you're right on the edge of it uh because of your district. You know, what's your feeling? What do you what are you hear seeing and hearing on the ground in your district and across the states uh about this election?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think I think there's um you know that there's real real concern. Um but what I do think is I think right now you're seeing uh the Republican Party uh really come together and there's a lot of efforts, very deliberate efforts. The Speaker uh has been doing an incredible job um making sure that all candidates have the resources that we need and that we're you know that we're we're coming together to understand that you know that we don't all agree on on everything. We have the entire spectrum of Republicans in our caucus, and uh but right now it is as good as I've ever seen it in terms of of us being aligned and and helping each other. And uh, you know, that's that's the path to victory right there. You know, we have we have done, you know, there's a lot of noise and there's a lot of chaos, but we have a good record to run on. We have done good things, and you you you've gotta you you've gotta go out and you've got to talk to people in your district and regular folks, regular voters that that aren't an activist of any kind are conservative, most of them. I mean they they they want sort of a conservative solution, at least in my district, to the problems that we face. And um so that you know, I think that bodes well. Um as far as me personally, I mean, um I campaign extremely hard, and I I um I go to every event I can go to and we knock doors and we have you know community gatherings, and I go wherever asked to go. And I have since I was elected, and I go in rooms where probably nobody in there is going to vote for me, but they know that they can talk to me and that they know that we agree on more things than they think, you know, than they think we agree on, you know, when we leave there. But um, you know, it's about for the Republican Party to me, it is for this cycle, it is about unity and it's about um, you know, making sure that we we we have a message that we remind people, wait a minute, you know, because it's easy now in the chaos, you know, for our opponents to say, you know, you know, well, this is bad, this is bad, this is bad, this is bad. But when you really talk to people, you you'll find that that most people's lives, um, they feel like the solutions to their problems, that our solutions solutions are better. And so I think that that's the part that's kind of getting shouted over right now. And so hopefully we'll we'll continue. Sorry about that.
SPEAKER_02I think we'll continue to do it. So why do you think the Republican Party is in you know relative dire straits right now uh versus previous elections?
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell Well, I think uh it's a midterm cycle. I mean, it's always it's always tough that time. Whoever, you know, really comes sort of controls the balance of power in DC, it kind of filters down. And it, you know, and here's the other thing. I think I think on the Democratic Party, I think there there's been such a hard shift to the left that that has been the natural response to the fact that, you know, I think they this is their window. And I think the hard left feels like, you know, because of affordability, what they call affordability issues, I call cost of living, um, issues that they can that they can grab a foothold, but their ideas are horrible. Um, you know, socialism, you know, uh, you know, it's it it doesn't work, and it's what most of their foundation is built upon now. You know, if you look at some of this this new um DSA movement or whatever whatever they call it, it's just it's not consistent with our founding principles or what's made this country great, and I think that that will resonate with voters. But for us as Republicans is to continue to to offer real solutions, to have a a conservative set of solutions that that trusts people with their own money, you know, you know, more money in their pocket to do with it and stimulate the economy in a manner that they see fit is the is the best path. And these are, you know, kind of big ideas, but it's you know, fundamentally that's that's what it's about. And, you know, um on the areas that I you know care about the most, uh, you know, the idea that that we can have this great uh education system that's really built for this next generation to compete uh with a lot of choice and uh just this ability for for parents to really be the driver to find, you know, to have an environment that best fits their kids is just you know, that's that's that's powerful. And parents, parents like that. You know, they it's when you talk to parents in the coffee shop, you know, when it comes to school choice, most will tell me things like this, you know, I love my school here. But that's what I was as a parent. You know, so I wanted, you know, you get one shot with those kids, and kids are so different. I've got three, and they're like all the same, and but they're all different, you know, and they're learning styles, and you've got to have the right environment, and parents ought to be able to do that. And I think we've got a uh a way to do that now, and we but we also have a a public school system that you're you're seeing that things are starting to improve with outcomes. So the future's bright. And and as Republicans, we have to um we have to recognize that and and and work hard, but continue to take our message that we've that we've had. And and um I think I think that will resonate with voters in the end.
SPEAKER_02We've got about four and a half months left until the election, and I'm sure a lot's gonna happen between now and then. Um Brad Buckley, thanks for joining the program. You bet. Thanks for having me. Enjoyed it.