Hear 4: Evie + Axel

In this episode, we sit down with Evie and Axel, two escorts based in Australia who share an honest and deeply reflective conversation about their work, their bodies, and the power of human connection.

Rather than focusing on stereotypes, Evie and Axel open up about the personal growth they’ve experienced through learning to be fully present in their bodies and developing a deeper understanding of intimacy. They discuss how self-awareness, boundaries, and emotional intelligence can transform the way we relate to ourselves and others.

This episode explores what it means to be truly in sync with your body and how embracing sexuality with mindfulness and respect can be both uplifting and life-changing. Evie and Axel share stories about connection, vulnerability, and the surprising ways their work has helped them—and their clients—feel more confident, grounded, and human.

If you would like to support there work or reach out for services, please feel free to click on the following links:

https://www.evieplusaxel.com.au/

https://www.evieelysian.com.au/

https://www.axelmeridius.com.au/

Transcript

0:04

Hey, I'm Eric and I'm here for you. Today's conversation is one that's honest, expansive, and deeply Human. Evie and Axel are two incredible people who bring not only passion to their work, but intentionality, emotional intelligence, and a profound respect for the people they connect with. For them, this isn't just about intimacy, it's about empowerment. It's about helping people reconnect with their bodies, unpack shame, explore, desire, and ultimately step closer to loving themselves more fully. They've made it their mission to support others in discovering their sexual confidence and embracing their authentic selves without judgment. We talk about breaking stigma, redefining what intimacy can look like, emotional depth of their work, and how self-acceptance is at the core of true pleasure. The talk that we have is about vulnerability, courage, and what it really means to hold space for someone's growth. I had an incredible conversation with Evie and Axel about their work, their lives, and it really was eye-opening to me and it really helped me see. That there's more to the sexual life that I'm living that all of us can learn from. So I hope you guys enjoy and really take in what Evie and Axel have to say.

Eric 1:45

Thank you guys so much for coming. I really appreciate this. I mean, It's honestly, it's a crazy honor. I didn't know much about you guys, before, reaching out and having small conversations, but looking into what you're doing and how you're kind of pushing a bit of, I guess I don't even wanna say it's like pushing the boundaries of the norm because, it seems wrong to say that

Evie + Axel 2:08

it's funny when people bring up. That what we do is out the ordinary. It's always a little bit of a surprise to us because everything has become so normalized to us. we've been doing this for a little while together now, and it's kind of just like our normal Friday night, you know? Yeah.

Eric 2:21

Yeah.

Evie + Axel 2:22

yeah, Thank you so much. It's, we love talking about it and yeah, just connecting with people who are curious to know more, and helps the world understand it a bit better too.

Eric 2:32

Yeah. And so to that point I would be doing, just an injustice, trying to explain in detail what you guys are trying to persuade and, and push here, but could you give me a breakdown of just what it is you guys do and focus on?

Evie + Axel 2:46

Okay, so essentially we're both sex workers. we are in Australia where it is legal it's got a bit of a backstory as to how we both got into it, but working together. I guess we're both really passionate about the human condition, sexuality, connection, intimacy and, what's, sexuality and sensuality and all of those things that fall under the umbrella of what we do, what it can bring to people, how it can be a really healing thing. It can be a really liberating thing and help people. connect more with their authenticity, which then impacts their day to day and their life outside of their own sexuality. So. I'm like, how do we describe this? I'm gonna pass it over to you and let you have a little go as well. Yeah. For me it's, it's a convergence of a few different aspects that are kind of points or passions I think that we both share. we both very interested in other people and what makes them tick and we're also very interested in sexuality in general. we're both very growth orientated and individual growth in all forms is sort of, one of our interests. So being part of other people's growth journeys and their exploration of parts of themselves that, can be tricky to access and can be very difficult to find someone to help to work with in facilitating that Is kind of a unique niche where we sort of sit there. We really enjoy being part of that. And I think it's a really valuable and unusual thing for people to be able to access. And to add on to that, people might assume that it's kind of a, something that's just, you know, oh, this sexual experience and that's all it is. It's just sex. And, you know, people think of sex workers and there's a lot of ideas of what that looks like, but sex work can look in many different ways What we like to bring to it is genuine connection and safety and a, a bit of a foundation for people to really kind of settle into themselves and feel that they've got a, a safe space to kind of really explore themselves honestly and within everybody's boundaries and their own, and, yeah, facilitate an experience which isn't unique to everybody, that allows'em to discover more of themselves. Hmm. And I think the fact that we work as a couple together, provides a container that's not normally accessible through, a traditional sex work. Offering because most people that work in the sex work industry either work, solo as a female or male provider, or as a duo with another worker who isn't somebody they know intimately. they might know each other professionally. But because we're a real couple, our dynamic and the chemistry between us is a unique thing that I think, is a big part of the reason why some, of our clients choose to work with us. Rather than any other kind of combination of just male, female juror.

Eric 5:33

Yeah, I gotta take this one slowly for myself because you use the term sex worker right? in the States. most people sit there thinking, you know.'cause we're pretty heavy religious people. I guess specifically in Texas, where I stay, it's kind of a taboo to say, you know, sex workers and speak about these, experiences and you trying to explore yourself. But you guys just, it's obviously legal there, as you mentioned, and it's just a, a flippant word that kind of, it is what it is. It's a profession, the oldest profession in the world, and you guys have been doing it together for, for some time. Do you feel like even in Australia where it's legal, is there a stigma to this or do you feel like it's just normalized now pushing through and what you guys are doing is actually just kind of pushing it further? Because, from what you've said, it's, you spoke about it like poetry and that's essentially what it is.

Evie + Axel 6:28

we're in Melbourne in Australia and I feel like Melbourne is probably one of the most open-minded parts of Australia, and I think Australia generally is quite open-minded. I think in terms of like stigma, we don't, we don't come in into contact with too many people who have negative opinions about this work. I'm, I'm trying to kind of maybe conclude why that might be. We, we choose to surround ourselves with. People who are very open-minded, kind of more conscious, growth orientated people. So we don't come into it in our personal lives. families and friends, they're all, they're on board. They understand we're face out. we're very, very about what we do. I know that there are people who are, you know, very against it. I mean, you look online and it's, even in Australia, there are people who, think it's abhorrent and wrong and disgusting and all of these things. but we personally haven't had to deal with that. I would say as a woman, I would definitely, Would find that the stigma is more against me than say a male worker, like, Axel. And I think that's just, a gender thing, but I haven't come across it too much, at all about work. Mm-hmm. Yeah, for me, I think you touched on something at the start saying that it might be because we come across very confidently and I mean, I feel. I've always been a little bit of a, a rebel at heart and there's something to say for me, actually, almost like inviting the world to judge me if you like. You know, like, this is who I am and if you don't like it, that's okay. so I'm happy to talk with anybody about this and. Almost enjoy what little friction come up. I see it more as just them coming up against their own conditioning more than anything else. I don't think I've ever been challenged by anybody in relation to the work that I do. if anything, most people, by recognizing just how grounded I am in who I am and how confident and comfortable I am talking about what I do, people just kind of go along with that because it's like, oh, okay. Even that's what that is for you. I'm gonna follow on that with, I feel like yeah, a lot of, attitude or poor attitude towards, this kind of work is often stigma, combined with projection, combined with, societal kind of conditioning, I guess. And, yeah, you're right, Axel. It's like if we're coming in confidently, there's really no room to kind of sway us. Where, if you're coming in a little bit like, oh, you know. I do this, like people might go, oh, you don't seem very confident about it. I'm gonna kind of question this, but we don't have that. We feel very confident and the very few times I have come up against, any kind of stigma. doesn't play out because I'm like, look, this is what it is to me. I'm clear and concise and very clear on what I do, and I feel very aligned with it ethically and in terms of my values and our values. people tend to not try and argue any further or they walk away from the interaction. Yeah. If someone, has expressed any kind of discomfort around what I do or any judgment, I'll typically frame that as. Oh, this doesn't feel comfortable to you. Maybe that's something you need to look at. what is it that you're bringing here that gives you this sense of discomfort? Yeah. It's under the layers. Yeah. what's layered underneath.

Eric 9:44

Wow. So you guys are obviously to your term sex workers, but you're also in a specific sense, like sexual psychologist, it seems like you're, you know, for people that are just throwing a stigma at you saying, oh, this is a terrible thing. But you're breaking it down to the sense like, I'm confident in who I am. I'm confident in what I like and what I do, and if you've got an issue with it, that's something you have to deal with that's on your own time and that's amazing. It's literally the definition of if you do what you love, you never work a day in your life and that's. I think that's the dream everyone shoots for.

Evie + Axel 10:19

Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, it is a lot of psychology and I feel like a lot of that comes into the work. You are holding space for people and what comes up for them and even coming up against people who might not agree with it like that, that's their stuff coming up. And I mean, we've both got a pretty keen interest in growth work and psychology and, how to improve. our own lives and our own mental states and our understanding of ourselves and the world and other people. it's a bit of a special interest. So it goes very well with what we're doing. Yeah. In some ways it might be part of how we ended up where we are as well, especially for myself. Yeah. in our lives, in the path we've chosen, the relationship we've chosen to have and the career we've chosen as well. Yeah.

Eric 11:01

You guys are incredibly sexually confident, but also mentally strong, and that is, I think it's a necessity, right? In this type of work. Because you're essentially also helping others and guiding others to get to that level that you guys are in, which in my opinion is what everyone should strive for. I do wanna kind of ask while you're doing this type of work, whether it be together, maybe in the beginning you guys kind of felt this kind of connection, Do you notice that some people might confuse the sexual connection with like an emotional fulfillment or like a bond? and do you think that might cause like a de fisure in trying to figure out one's kind of sexual structure?

Evie + Axel 11:45

That's a multilayered question. the way that people view sexuality is quite an individual thing, and it depends a lot on where they're at in terms of their own, development and what kind of conditioning and experiences they come into it with. in terms of our clients, for example, we have people who come in very emotionally mature and self-aware and are leaning into sexual exploration sort of as a continuation of their. Growth journey, just generally. and we have other people who come in with just a bucket list of sexual experiences that they wanna achieve. And everything in between, right? some being couples, maybe add a layer of, relationship and kind of like how the dynamics between their connection is explored in the context of sexuality. whereas a lot of our clients are also individuals and it's more just about their individual experience and what they wanna experience. So I think we get a little bit of everything. we do get a bit of everything and because we are really clear from the outset about boundaries and about, what we can offer, who we are and what's entails, I think it kind of helps set. an understanding for the client as well as to what we can offer, the kind of support we can offer. And, if they ask for more, they seem to be, pushing into maybe our boundaries. We'll have a conversation about what we can offer and what we can't. oftentimes people are pretty good. They, obviously when you're connecting with, with someone or, or people in an intimate way that can bring things up I'm very big on aftercare. that's a really important aspect of this work

Eric 13:18

Oh.

Evie + Axel 13:19

because yeah, it, it's just like with any experience that might feel, you know, edgy or put or opening up new parts of somebody or. A relationship, you wanna ensure that, afterwards, the processing, that they're okay. they know that, you know, this wasn't, this isn't an experience where now they're kind of like, oh God, I've just discovered this new part of myself and now, and now we're all like, I'm gonna feel alone and I've seen these guys. And so we do check-ins and things like that. We'll send some emails, have some backs and forth, make sure they're settled. And if they're not, we can recommend them to, you know, maybe a sex therapist or we could recommend that they get in touch with self care. yeah. So there's many facets to it,

Eric 14:01

Wow.

Evie + Axel 14:01

ultimately, as, yeah, people are really clear on what we can offer and we ensure that what we can offer does support them emotionally afterwards, as well.

Eric 14:10

So to kinda add to that thought, how do you guys find it difficult to like, maintain emotional boundaries? Have you ever found any issue with somebody coming in and, kind of pushing a little further beyond what they should, while still offering like genuine connections?

Evie + Axel 14:25

yeah, I think it's, a consideration and there are some situations probably where that's more common than others. I think as a very broad, Oversimplification maybe. I think, women, especially solo women client, are looking for more in terms of emotional connection, whereas solo male clients are looking for less of that.

Eric 14:47

Hmm.

Evie + Axel 14:48

and it's more just about the sexual aspect and social aspect more generally, couples because they have a connection themselves that they bring to the experience. a couple. It, it's just a different thing. Like I think, a couple exploring together with another couple who are professionals tend to own the emotional connection, coming in and leaving. So, but in terms of pushing those boundaries, like we, I only work, together with Evie. I don't do any solar work at the moment and where there are requests for that, either in addition to, or instead of, booking us together, for example. I'm at the moment not offering that at all and. You know, so because of that, we avoid a lot of, I think, where we might otherwise have Yeah. I think because we're coming in as a couple, there isn't a lot of that push. and if there is, it's very minor and it's like, okay, what do you need here? I find people struggle to articulate or even really understand that they are maybe pushing for more because they're kind of just going with what, their body or their mind is telling them. And so it's not about, telling them, oh no, you can't do that, or calling it out. it's often times just being gentle and going, Hey, it seems like you're needing a bit more support right now. And, Obviously this is, in a professional context and we can provide you a bit of check-in and aftercare, but if you're needing some more, it might be time to check in with maybe some friends or family or perhaps, reach out to a professional who can support you in the emotional side of this. Like, you know, we can go so far with that, but we are not actual therapists, we're not psychologists. so if anyone does kind of push into those edges, it's, it's just a really gentle and kind and loving conversation. Mm-hmm.

Eric 16:28

I think that's what a lot of people are genuinely looking for is, to have this incredible experience and hopefully find an awakening and you get to find yourself The added genuine love and care from you guys to give that support. I think that's fantastic. And I think to go along with the stigma and the thought of sex workers. I mean, they, Provide an incredible connection not to mention all the stuff that media shows What you guys are providing is, a genuine, life changing moment, and I think that's amazing. I kind of want to make sure that people listening understand that you're, not providing one straight line thing. you do a lot more in the sense of, healing and the sexual process. you do sexual massages, you do, extensive stuff. is that correct?

Evie + Axel 17:14

So we are pretty extensive in what we do offer because there are lots of ways to be intimate and lots of ways in which people might wanna connect. So there might be somebody who doesn't quite feel ready to step into a sexual experience, and they might be looking for maybe just a touch session, which will be like a platonic cuddle session. Just like someone really safe. giving you a cuddle, like a friend, except there's two of us. And, we can offer that, that can be a really

Eric 17:42

Wow.

Evie + Axel 17:43

kind of, yeah. Kind of segue into opening up back into their sexuality. Should they have come out of a bad relationship or they've had some previous trauma and they need to learn how? Be safe with touch again. we do massage as well. that oftentimes might be for the same reason. They just wanna kind of come into something that's a bit more essential and feels a bit safer for them personally. We do social sessions or advice, if they're looking to, I guess. Understand themselves, their partners or even the dating world a bit better, given that we've had a lot of experience ourselves in our growth journey. And, going through the motions of understanding ourselves has given us a really great understanding of other people and, the layers underneath and the reasons why we do things and the reasons we project and so on and so forth. So we, yeah, we do offer a vast range of things all the way up to like a, full service sexual experience. and, even saying that those experiences can be very, life-changing for people because they might be bicurious and have never had the opportunity to safely step into that because of society's view on what it means to be bisexual. So to come in and be greeted with completely open-minded, non-judgmental, loving, safe people is, is can be a life changing thing for people and can allow them to then kind of move to the next stage of. Their journey and their life. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I find as well, like within sort of that context of, you know, education and, and sharing kinda like the wisdom that we've accumulated through our experiences, like being a man. and you know, I'm not in Texas, but I imagine like Australia's not that different in terms of like what we grew up with in terms of conditioning, The Australian High School is not so different from what you see from, you know, an American high school from movies and stuff. So, you know, we come out of that experience into adulthood as men with, enormous pressure to be certain thing in order to gain the validation from other men. if you say the wrong thing or do the wrong thing, or if your partner says or does the wrong thing, what does all this mean? I find that we become. Completely trapped and almost like debilitated within this layer of conditioning. And it takes so much work to get out of that. And I've found in my journey, even just being around other men who have done some of this work and essentially feel more comfortable being who they actually are, what's kind of driven me towards doing that work myself. And I feel like. Part of what we offer, not as a, expressly stated service, but it's a byproduct of working with us, is you actually get to experience what it's like to be with or be guided by, a couple who have themselves done a lot of this work and can kind of model what that experience can be like for somebody..

Eric 20:35

I'll be honest, never really saw it in that mind frame before. And. I have to say y'all's chemistry together is incredible. just talking with you, I don't know you personally, obviously, but just the way that you guys intertwine, you tell your stories and then you come together. It's, everything has just been in unison with both of you and I have to, is that what a truly aligned sexual partnership looks like? Is it just a blend of that plus the emotion or is there a more complexity to this?

Evie + Axel 21:05

we're both just like smiling at each other over the microphone. we love each other to pieces and I think it's a combination of things. I think we, keep going back to doing the work, but it really is a huge part of this because we really had to, suffer through it to do the work. This wasn't something that we just, went and did a meditation course and went, saw a psychologist and, we're off to go. it takes a lot of looking at yourself and, your fears and your projections and your upbringing. There's a lot to it, For whatever reason, the universe decided to align us at a time that was just really ideal. we both kind of hit a point where we just met each other and could see each other fully. There were no masks. It was just an authentic connection. And it's not something I can really explain. I haven't met anybody that I could just kind of see straight away who didn't have walls up or a mask. It was just Axel was Axel and he is been Axel since the day I met him. I'm much the same. What you see is what you get. but I just feel like we, I know we're from the same planet, wherever we're from, we're from the same planet. And, there's a lot of, mutual understanding and safety and love, that comes from just want love. Not just this idea of love that's kind of put out there, like, you know, you do this, you do that, and that's the loving relationship. But what we want for each other most is to allow each other to be the most selves. we want to allow each other to live fully as who we're supporting. Our sexual connection is just a reflection of our connection in general. Exactly. So all of these themes, carry through equally within, other aspects of our relationship, but then also within our sexual connection. And I think we are safe enough in representing ourselves in our professional roles that the experience that people get from working with us is pretty true. We really are. And The sexual experience of being one of our clients really gives them an experience of our sexual connection. I think that's part of what makes what we offer unique as compared to other, sex work duos where a man and a woman without that behind them, can offer certain aspects. But it's that connection that makes it unique. The chemistry and everything in between. and the fact that we've also done a lot of our own sexual work with each other and we've kind of, liberated ourselves and, explored certain aspects that we haven't explored with others, and we're able to kind of bring that growth and those experiences into understanding clients and what they might need.

Eric 23:45

So to that point then, do you think that's why so many couples struggle to talk openly about their desire and their sexual wants is because. Maybe they don't have what, you know, Axel, Evie, what you guys have maybe they just need to test out more things with one another, or is there just something missing that they're like, what do you guys have that you're seeing these other couples that you work with? Don't.

Evie + Axel 24:10

I feel, I feel there's a lot of things that could impact that kind of communication and it's often based and rooted in. Things like shame, maybe not having the ability to really kind of see what's underneath which, I mean, challenging to look at yourself and the things that come up and your previous experiences and, why you might, you know, think, oh, that's, you know, say someone has a kink and they're too scared to tell their wife because their wife is gonna be judgemental. that's coming from a place of fear and, experience that sharing those vulnerable things is dangerous. It might not be the case, but there's too much. Into that and I guess find out. So oftentimes it's left unsaid and, you know, it's it breakdown of communication because people aren't taught how to communicate or to Connect in fully because they've been taught otherwise. the human psyche is so complicated and, you know, trying to navigate. just basic psychology aspects can be really tricky. and within sexuality, it's almost like the volume of all that is dialed up to a much higher level because of all the conditioning in our society about what it means, what it doesn't mean, and how we're so suppressed about talking about these things but try to unravel it. That I feel safe even admitting to myself, let alone to my partner, how would my partner react? How would I feel if they reacted a certain way? what would that do to our connection? Is this something that we can talk about? Only when we've reached a certain point of safety, you know, between the two of us, is now a good time to do it. it's almost like we talk ourselves out of. Sharing openly just because of what we feel subconsciously could be the consequences, you know, on an emotional level. Like, you know, what if I tell my partner this that they might leave or they might look at me differently forever, like, it's not worth the risk. maybe once they're aware that this is something I've thought of, maybe they'll never feel safe again. because they think that I'm forever gonna be, you know, fantasizing about something else. Or they might feel inadequate that's the trade off I think people make, whereas, Axel and I are both kind of came to a place in our lives where we, we don't wanna trade off our authenticity for connection. trading off authenticity, is not something that either of us want to do. And I think a lot of people go, oh, well I have to give this part of myself up to have this, and sure we make compromises. and that's fine. We all do that. You know, Axel and I also make compromises in our life, but we don't wanna compromise on who we truly are, our value sets, what's important to us. I think, it comes back to like basic relationship dynamics. maybe this is. More so for people that have been together for a while and are stepping into sexual exploration. But when we meet somebody, the standard issue is to present a version of yourself that you think is gonna fly and appeal to the other person. And then at some point, months later, you kind of unwind that and you get to know the real version of each other. And in some cases. You maintain the facade for the duration of a relationship, where at some point people lose interest once they realize that they were maybe less compatible than what they thought they were when

Eric 27:23

Oh.

Evie + Axel 27:24

projected versions of themselves seem to get on so well. But, ultimately we kind of feel like when we're establishing a relationship, we went through a social contract about. you told me that you wanted a monogamous relationship and you told me that you were into, thinking Yeah. Whatever it might be. And, and so, so to kinda reveal, like retrospectively, hey, there's something that, maybe I should have been upfront about, but I'd be open to this or that. That feels dangerous and it almost feels like, a betrayal because you are now going against what felt like a very strong social contract that, the people are very vested in. and you know, if we're talking traditionally, agreeing to a monogamous relationship with somebody, it's almost goes beyond just the relationship. This is how I'm gonna be viewed within my society and by my peer groups, friends and family. And now you're kind of. essentially undermining my sense of security within the community by suggesting that you might wanna change something that's gonna be, potentially judged by a lot of people. Mm-hmm. And, you know, it's a minefield. It's a minefield.

Eric 28:26

I always thought, you know, to have a more fulfilling sexual life, that it, it, it just start with the body, right? If I look good, I'm gonna feel good, I'm gonna push that. and that'll help me connect with my partner that I can think through. It doesn't matter the kinks, the stigma, the, anything like that. You know, the social contract, as you said, we, we kind of bind it there. We'll come together and figure it out through the process. But now with what you guys said there, do you think a more. fulfilling sex life starts at the mind, the body or just the heart, the feeling of it.

Evie + Axel 28:58

can I speak to this one? Yeah, go. I, I think that it starts with intimacy and that. I don't mean like necessarily intimacy in any particular form, but you know, being able to be vulnerable enough to show the authentic version of who we are to somebody and feel safe and, you know, seen and heard. And chosen for who we are. absolutely foundational. I agree with that wholeheartedly. I think it is like vulnerability and just complete authenticity and knowing that you can be seen and held in that is, is absolutely foundational to the, the, the best sexual and intimate and loving connections. layered thing, I think, but psychologically, if you have that safety with your connection with somebody, I mean, you can find that within. Friendships, platonic, even working relationships, family, friends and, and obviously with your romantic partner or life partner, that's something that you would absolutely want to have. even if you are not very sexual people like that is I think what gives value to connection with other people. And if you can find that and talk about sexuality from that place, then you can go anywhere.

Eric 30:10

So you had mentioned about being truly seen. what's the difference between being truly seen and then being desired in kind of like that sexual push?

Evie + Axel 30:21

so being truly seen I think is, they are two separate things. Like I can feel very witnessed by a person. even if it's not a person that I'm attracted to or who is attracted to me. Like, for example, it could be another man in a context that's, potentially it might involve sexuality, but indirectly, But I can also be seen by my partner and. In the, in the second context, it's more to me about sharing the truth of myself and my desire and feeling like my partner truly sees who I am and chooses me with that knowledge. So that, that is a question of authenticity and intimacy in a relationship. whereas desire Has many forms. Like obviously there's the pure sexual desire with, you know, like the biological urge to reproduce and all, everything that flows from that. which it, you know, for many people needs a base layer of emotional connection with somebody, but for others it doesn't need that. And that's a, a bit of an individual thing. but within a relationship, you know, we, we've been life partners for a while and, and we work together and we spend a lot of time together. For us to maintain, that kind of sexual attraction to each other, the mechanisms for creating polarity between the two of us are essential. Mm-hmm. and, there are both healthy and unhealthy ways to create that polarity. but you know, with our work and the opportunities we have to, involve ourselves with other people, for example, is something that maybe other people don't have access to in that regard. And, you know, in terms of like, if you're living together, parenting together and working together, then you might have to quite proactively create space for polarity to be created within your relationship. You know, for, from our perspective as a couple, attraction sort of takes all of those forms. you know, I wouldn't have chosen a partner who I wasn't biologically sexually attracted to because, I, it's an important facet of connection. It's really important, but I also wouldn't choose a partner who didn't understand these other concepts and wasn't able to work with me to ensure that the way in which we connect, takes that into consideration as well. Yeah, I think, for me, I, especially these days like to be in a connection like this with Axel, I re, I, I require to be fully accepted and seen for who I am and, There's desire and being seen being two different things. Someone can desire you without seeing who you are fully, and that's lovely and I, I love for being desired. But when someone can both see and desire you, and bring those two things together, that's when everything becomes next level because your being desired for the wholeness of who you are, rather than just say your physical. elements or your intelligence, like those are all lovely individually and I enjoy those things. But to me, what is next level and what really creates the connection that Axel and I share is because I feel fully seen, accepted by him. All my parts, my good, my bad, my in between. And he still, desires me in all that I am. And that, is otherworldly to have a connection like that.

Eric 33:31

I had a whole nother thought of, asking how this work has changed your own relationship with love and y'all's connection. But you guys are, just overwhelmed with love. just hearing you guys talk about one another. So, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask, but do you feel from the beginning of this, when you both got together and kind of started this journey, Did that change your view on love and yourself through this process?

Evie + Axel 33:56

I think we came into this connection, with a pretty clear, view on love in relationships and it just naturally connected for both of us. so our love and relationship hasn't actually changed much because of the work. I feel like the work has in some ways, Interacted with our own sex sexual exploration. Like we've tapped into parts of ourselves that have been, revealed to us through experiences that are part of our work. but how we feel about each other romantically and, how our relationship works and our connection within that relationship, has been unchanged, I think. Yeah, I agree. I think we've, we came in the way that we still are now, just with, I guess, more depth. we're pretty deep from the outset, but we've created more depth and that's been through, just kind of being ourselves from the outset and, exploring together. And we talk about the work a lot and, that can mean so many different things. And people who maybe haven't done a lot of growth work or understand that might be like, well, what is this work you're talking about? And it's a very big question because there are so many ways that you can look at it, but what the kind of work that we've done is essentially really facing up to ourselves and looking at our, say past traumas and the things that we project, and things that we fear, and really unpacking all these parts of ourselves Not just unpacking it, but facing up to it and challenging it and stepping into our edges and our discomforts. I'm trying to think of an example. Do you have one? You're really good with your examples. Oh boy. I on the spot. okay. Well let's say for example, within our work as a female provider, there are things that you can do that a male provider cannot and vice versa. So, within our work, the ways in which we work may not be 100% equal in every way. but we create equity by having, understanding for all of these different aspects and understanding that. The discomfort that we may feel in different ways in relation to those challenges might not actually have anything to do with the challenges themselves, but more reflections of childhood experiences and how, a feeling might come up for me today based on something that happens, which really is just re-experiencing something that I felt, as an 8-year-old, for example. And, understanding that the work involved in dealing with that has nothing to do with changing anything about today, but essentially, facing up to those parts of myself that are still unhealed or unprocessed from my past. Mm-hmm. Yeah.. Yeah,

Eric 36:42

I could talk to you guys for days about this. You guys are in inspiring. You're incredible. You're amazing. this has been a life changing conversation in the short time that I've been able to talk with you because. In a matter of 40 minutes, you've been able to crush stigmas and, this devastating thought of like, what a sex worker is. You, you know, I, I feel like sex worker, it is, you know, something that you, you call yourselves, but I feel like that's not. good enough for what you guys are. You guys are so much more than that. You're providing this incredible emotional but, explorative and just growing service that honestly should be talked about more and should be praised because you guys aren't just helping people live a better life sexually, but you're connecting them with something, a part of them that. they didn't even know that they were missing. And you're creating better lives for it. And you guys are incredible people. like this is amazing. Again, it's one of those things where a podcast voice is not doing it justice. The love you guys have for one another and the passion for the work you do speaks volumes, and it has been an incredible honor to talk with you guys today.

Evie + Axel 37:49

Thank you. yeah, we've really enjoyed it. this is one of our favorite things is being able to share this, especially with someone like you who just is really curious, So thank you so much for having us. Yeah, it's really cool. we love talking about our experiences and if they can inspire other people, that's part of why we do this, you know, like, especially when we get to experience being part of people's own growth journeys and witness them stepping into, you know, the next iteration of themselves. that's the ultimate thing about what we do that we love more than anything. And I think that the more that people are connected with themselves authentically, the more joy and expression and love that they can create in their own lives. And that's just gonna bleed outwards. And the world needs a lot more of that right now.

Eric 38:31

But before I let you guys go, I do wanna ask for anybody listening for anybody that's possibly struggling with, their sexuality or their thought process or, maybe they don't even know it. what would you like to say to them?

Evie + Axel 38:42

My advice for somebody is challenge yourself to face whatever the discomfort is that you expect to feel when leaning into these parts of yourself. don't be afraid of uncomfortable conversations or judgment. You would be surprised at how little judgment you might get when you talk to people. About yourself. I feel like that's the key. It's about the courage to face whatever the resistance is.'cause most of us are amazing. Our creativity and, what we are trying to create for ourselves and become is usually amazing. And it's usually fear and conditioning that stops us from doing it and pushing through that. I has been the key to my growth every day of the week. And I think that despite, the feelings that people might have around their sexuality or their kinks or their curiosities, I think it's understanding that that shame is inherently, not theirs. That's been something that's been conditioned in, whether it be through, upbringing, society, religion, or whatever, that there's nothing wrong with you if you are, thinking about something. sexual or feeling desirous for something that feels wrong. oftentimes, these kinks that we find normal, these, sexual curiosities that we just, a Friday night to us, a lot of people feel a lot of deep shame around, Being sexual at all. And, we're sexual creatures, we're human beings, we're meant to be. And this is actually a really healthy way to express yourself and actually can really help you move through stress and through previous experiences. It's an incredibly healing thing too, to tap into your intimacy and your sexuality. Yeah. Yeah. As long as everyone is consent for Absolutely. Of Absolutely.

Eric 40:23

Yes.

Evie + Axel 40:23

in those boundaries intact

Eric 40:26

A hundred percent. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Evie + Axel 40:28

Yeah. Yeah.

40:32

I am so grateful to Evie and Axel for their openness, their honesty, and the heart they bring, not only to each other, but to the people they work with. This hopefully reminds us that sexuality isn't something to hide or feel shame around. It's something deeply personal, healing and transformative when approached with care and consent. If this resonated with you, I really encourage you to reflect on your own relationship with intimacy, self-worth, and pleasure, because growth often begins where judgment ends. So if you guys are interested in seeing more and hearing more from Evie and Axel, uh, I have linked their, their information in the show notes here. So please click on those things. Uh, go give them a look. Really give them your time, effort, and energy. And if it's something you're looking for, obviously, and the Melbourne, uh, Australia area, um, or maybe if you're traveling down there, uh. Take a look at what they've got to offer, give them a holler and maybe they can help you out on your journey. And I, I truly hope that they can. But outside of that, thank you so much for listening. I greatly appreciate it. Uh, if you guys have a story you wanna tell, wanna gimme a holler? Let know how I'm doing. I'd take that too. Shoot me an email here for you. Pod, that's HEAR. Four Y-O-U-P-O d@gmail.com and that's it for me guys, thank you so much again for listening, and I hope to hear you in the next one.