Hear 4: John Cuturilo

In this episode of Hear 4 You, we explore mental health, neurodivergence, identity, and the journey of understanding yourself in a world that often expects people to fit into a specific mold.

John shares his personal experiences growing up feeling different, navigating autism, mental health struggles, and finding purpose through helping others. We discuss misconceptions about mental illness, the role of lived experience in counseling, why empathy and understanding are essential, and how questioning the world around us can lead to growth.

This is a thoughtful conversation about breaking stereotypes, finding authenticity, and creating space for people to be seen and heard.

John Cuturilo is a counsellor, writer, and podcast host in Melbourne, Australia. He conducts therapy with a diverse range of clients and specializes in working with complex trauma and relational matters. He seeks to address shortcomings in common practice by being versatile, educative, empowering, and relatable, integrating humanity and lived experience with evidence-based methods. As a writer and host, he educates his audience about how psychology applies to their lives, encouraging them to be more critical, constructive thinkers. He eschews politics and popular rhetoric for a pursuit of objective reality and nuanced analysis.

Find him at: www.yourlistener.com.au

Transcript

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0:03

Hey, I'm Eric, and I'm here for you. Today's conversation is an exploration of identity, mental health, and what it means to find your place in a world that doesn't always feel built for everyone. In this episode, I'm joined by John Cutrillo, a counselor, writer, and podcast host who shares his personal journey growing up feeling different, navigating neurodivergency, and learning how those experiences shaped his mission to help others. We talk about the misconceptions surrounding mental illness, the importance of understanding how the mind works, why lived experiences matter, and how challenging the status quo can sometimes be the first step towards creating a more compassionate world. This conversation is more than just mental health. It's about questioning what we accept as normal, learning to understand ourselves, and remembering that discomfort doesn't always mean something is wrong. Sometimes it means we're growing. I hope you enjoy my talk with John Cutrillo

Eric 1:07

I think that you're providing an incredible. Service for people and, to have someone like you kind of get your work out there and help others, I think it's very important. So I do appreciate you giving me the chance to talk to you, but also get to know a little bit about you and your background.

John Cuturilo 1:21

Thank you. I appreciate it. that's one of the parts of podcasting and media that I love most is, getting to know different people and their stories and the work that they're doing. It's always, always fascinates me.

Eric 1:31

Yeah, that's kind of where I started with this whole thing as well, is I'm just fascinated by people and their stories and. I've been very fortunate to kind of hear the amazing tales that people have so far. and I really wanna start with your origin and your identity. And there's gonna be a few things that I pick up from, the slight message that we had on Reddit, but also kind of just a little bit on the About You section and some of your media structures, your blogs and stuff like that. One thing I wanted to talk about, starting with your origin is growing up you had mentioned that, you often felt at odds kinda with society. Do you mind taking us back to that time and what that experience was like for you internally?

John Cuturilo 2:08

Absolutely. I was quite young. I was diagnosed with what was then, Asperger's syndrome. Now it's part of the autism spectrum disorder diagnosis. And that was ratified when I was an adult. I certainly don't let that define me, but obviously when one is young, their capacity to understand themselves and the world is quite different. So even from that basic level, I had trouble integrating in the sense that. Basic sensory experiences that we all encounter were quite overwhelming. For me, I was very sensitive to noise. I found it difficult to tolerate the chaos that one often sees in, for example, a school classroom. I mean, it's normal given that children have a lot of energy and that's part of how they learn and how they experience the world and learn to be human. But. for me, it was overwhelming and I didn't understand how to integrate into that. But as I matured and went through my teenage years. I began to develop different experiences as well. I began to develop what was more explicitly mental illness and autism, whether it is a mental illness or not, very much depends on the presentation and whether it's a disability or not. Very much depends on the presentation. So in my case, it's not a mental illness and it's not a disability. I'm very grateful for that because doesn't stop me from functioning, but I started to develop what is more explicitly mental illness, and that me in a sense because I couldn't regulate my emotions in the same way that I thought I should be able to, and I didn't know why certain experiences that I was told or I was getting the impression more relatively innocuous were affecting me so emotionally I felt trapped in a mind that I couldn't control. that's passed now, but that's how it felt at the time. But in addition to that, I was observing what was happening around me and a lot of it didn't make sense. And to this day, while a lot of it still doesn't make sense, I now and have been for a long time in a position where I can useful commentary on it and educate people on how to integrate into it, but also on how to. it where it's appropriate to do so. in my young days, of course, I was seeing a lot of conflict in society. People fighting, contests at school, people not knowing how to conduct themselves. I was seeing chaos. in high school, it was incredibly difficult to learn because the classes in which I was were quite frankly out of control. My, my classmates were quite raucous and things got physical in the classroom at times, not in a serious sense, but things got physical between my classmates and I was just sitting there at the front of the class trying to learn and trying to concentrate. At the same time, socializing with people was difficult because people had these standards that didn't make any sense to me. You had to be popular, you had to be trendy. That didn't make sense to me. Why does one have to be popular and trendy where they can be them themselves and be far more interesting that way? That's what I sought when I was socializing. I wanted to have interesting conversations with people, not just to be. A replica of some model that was touted. And as I up, I started to realize also that a lot of our society runs not on what's truthful, but what's emotionally stimulating. There's a particular philosopher, I'll quote him. His name's Ken Wheeler. He's from the United States. He says, nothing true is popular and nothing popular is true. I very much expanded upon that in my work because what became evident to me is that don't seek truth. they all too often have been taught see as true that which is emotionally stimulating, that which gets you money, gets you status. That which supports the systems that we have developed in society for good or for bad. people aren't taught that well to actually think critically about why do we have these systems? Why do we think this is truthful, and are we so emotionally attracted to these things when they may not always be in our best interests? And as time went on, I started to realize also that part of the way that we protect some of these institutions and these systems is by making people believe that anyone who doesn't believe in them is an enemy. And so that hasn't really affected me much, but I see other people being affected by it, where people get outcast and get stigmatized in society. When they don't fit into systems, It's not just in the west. It can occur across all different pockets of society based on, politics, culture, religion, all different human created philosophies that we have created. As in an attempt to understand the world and make society operable, I've found is that we allow those systems to perpetuate by. Stigmatizing and, excommunicating those who do not fit into them. this is also where people with disabilities and people with mental illnesses get stigmatized as well because they, by virtue of their condition, may not be able to integrate into the systems that we have decided are acceptable. And so because of that, they're stigmatized and they're judged and they suffer a disadvantage because. We don't allow accommodations and understanding for them. so I was always at odds with the system, but I always had this sense of, well. I didn't realize it when I was younger, but as I grew older and started to develop a a firmer ethos, what I started realizing was are times to integrate into society and there are times to break the status quo. And there are times to stand up and say, no, I'm gonna double down on this because I believe it's genuinely right or genuinely wrong. I'm gonna stand against it. And it can perplex some people because some people may not know how to take me, or they may not realize that what I do, I do it completely because I'm chasing what is truthful and what is in the best interest of other people and society, and to protect myself and sure that I'm not being exploited and not simply trying to fit into a box. but on the flip side, a lot of people recognize it and say, Hey, I actually appreciate what John does. he's doing something that is honest and authentic. And that's why I do what I do. I don't try to impress people. I don't try to tell people what they want to hear. I don't try to fit into boxes or to do what's gonna make me the most popular or earn me the most status. What I try to do is approach everything that I do. With some kind of objectivity where I'm doing what's in the best interest of other people involved. doing what's right by myself and balancing that with other people's best interests. I am trying to be objectively truthful without letting my emotions or my own personal beliefs influence my actions too much and. Overall, I'm just trying to be the best human being that I can be do the most for other people that I can possibly do within the capacity that I have. And I'd say trying to do that means breaking molds and breaking stereotypes, and that can make people uncomfortable. But what I'm trying to do through my work is show people that just because something makes you uncomfortable, it doesn't mean that it's wrong. It could be that you've been taught to find it uncomfortable because we are so. Preoccupied with familiarity, but we're not really taught to, challenge our discomforts and seek what is actually good for us, even if it makes us uncomfortable. that's been the journey in that regard so far.

Eric 9:07

that's amazing. I think it's all inspiring that you took this, as a child and a young adult, this sense of not quite fitting in and it basically shaped your meaning and identity to fold into helping others and. Making people more aware of, how people can be integrated into society and not fitting into a status quo, but actually evolving from it. I think that's incredible and that's why I appreciate the effort and the work that you're doing to help others in their mental health journey and, understanding themselves even more. You obviously have had very significant, lived experience what do you feel most people misunderstand about that kind of struggle?

John Cuturilo 9:45

I'd say there are a number of fundamental misunderstandings in both neurodivergence, if we could call it that, and in mental illness, they come from different philosophies. Sometimes they even come from the professional field, which is quite scary to me. That's something I'm trying to slowly educate people on. But let's talk about some of those fundamental misconceptions. First of all, the idea that mental illness is invented and that we're just coming up with. New illnesses in order to try to, I'm not gonna say the people who use this term, I don't wanna defame them, but certain people say we're trying to medicalize the human condition make what is actually a normal experience, mental illness, so as to excuse people who can't keep up with life. Okay. Technically speaking, any diagnosis of anything is invented because. The diagnosis itself is a conceptualization separate from what it actually refers to. a broken leg is a broken leg regardless of how you refer to it, but you refer to it itself is a concept. So I could very much refer to somebody's broken leg as a normal leg. It wouldn't change the fact that it's excruciating and that it would stop that person from functioning, The objective reality of it remains the same regardless of what I actually, regardless of how I actually refer to it. the same time, we invent concepts to refer to mental illnesses in order to be able to diagnose them, because that's the only way that we can actually accumulate consistent knowledge of what those illnesses actually are, then test. so that we can actually help people with them. So to give an example, let's take depression. That's one of the most common mental illnesses. Technically speaking, if you look at the clinical diagnostic definition of what depression is and read the symptoms, that set of symptoms and that diagnostic system was not given to us by nature. It took us to invent the field of psychology and then study people with depression. In order to develop a set of knowledge that referred to what depression actually was. But regardless of how we define it, have always been people throughout history who have experienced what we call depression. even though it's not the same for everyone, is relative consistency within a relatively consistent boundary. are consistencies between different presentations of depression Now. fact that there is, that consistency means we can safely say depression is not an anomaly. It's not just something that somebody experienced one day and all of a sudden we've invented a diagnosis for it. It's a part of the human experience, but it is an illness just like any illness can. So we know that it exists objectively, even if everyone's experience of it is differently. So the fact that we can't test for it physically, or the fact that we can't see it with our own eyes or experience it through the senses, it doesn't mean it's not real. It just means that it's of the mind rather than of the body. we don't understand problems of the mind as much as the problems of the body because we can't observe them in the same way, but they're still real. And it's only because we were able to accumulate that knowledge and then examine it and examine different treatment options. Were we able to develop types of psychotherapy that were actually effective for depression to actually help people overcome it? So technically diagnoses are invented in the sense that they're conceptualized, that that doesn't mean that the phenomena that they're referring to aren't real. They're absolutely real. At the same time, there's an extension of this that is slightly less extreme, but still a misconception that illnesses like depression, anxiety, and it's their associates simply consist of negative thoughts and feelings. this is something that quite frighteningly. I don't see people emphasizing certain aspects of this enough and educating people on aspects of this enough, because this is really key to understanding it. And I don't see it as much in the psychotherapy field either, which really frightens me as well. But when we have a mental illness, it doesn't just involve negativity in the sense that the thoughts and feelings we experience are unpleasant to us. It actually affects, and again, I'm certainly no neurophysiologist. a person who's adequately qualified in that field would be able to expound on this more, but there are studies and literature that expound on this in more detail, but it can actually affect our fundamental. Neurological capabilities, the mechanics of our brain that are involved in processing information and that information processing is involved in our most basic daily tasks and our most basic daily activity, it's called executive functioning. And when we experience certain episodes of mental illness, it actually affects executive functioning. That's why people often experience when they have anxiety, depression, or autism or other diagnosis, what we call brain fog. Or people feel like they should be able to do a task, but they can't think of what the first step is, or they can't think of what to say when they're in a certain stressful situation. It's not because they can't think. It's not because they should be thinking their way out of it. The actual. Phenomenon, which we call depression, anxiety, autism, or whichever diagnosis is relevant. actually, fundamentally involves an adverse effect on executive functioning, on basic information processing. We don't realize this because of us take it for granted. We, we undertake most of, most of our information processing without even being aware of it because. If we had to be aware of every single piece of information that was passing through our brains, we wouldn't be able to live our brains would not be able to process consciously that sheer amount of information. So we do much of it unconsciously, and then we leave our awareness for the things that really need to be consciously aware. And because we're not really made aware of that and we're not really taught practical psychology. A lot of people develop mental illness and then have no explanation as to why they can't do the things that they think they should be able to do, and which they're told they should be able to simply think their way out of, so to speak. And no one has actually shown these people, Hey, this is a real effect. it's an effect on your executive functioning. And no one's actually explained why the interventions are meant to do what they do. And they've, they, they're not really explaining the mechanics of it. liken it very much to somebody going in for crucial surgery, but the surgeon not telling them what exactly they're gonna do. I mean, anyone who goes in for surgery, a good surgeon will tell you. This is what we're gonna do. This is why we're doing it. These are the risks and benefits, and they'll have that explained to them In simple language. Psychotherapy hasn't caught up to that yet, I don't think or at least not in my experiences, and not in the experiences of a lot of clients that I've seen. So there's a misconception that it's just negative thoughts and feelings, but that subjective phenomenology isn't explored often enough. there's also a lot of misconception in how people assume that as accepting as we are nowadays, that mental illness always means the same thing for every person. people have mental illnesses but can function relatively normally. They suffer in the process, but they can function relatively normally. too often those people are treated like They don't need help even though they're asking for it, and that's a gross misconception that. Can result in a lot of harm, because I've seen people, you know, they walk into therapy and they're describing that they're suffering. But the therapist says, well, are you functioning normally? And the person says, well, yeah, on face value, I am. And the therapist says, well, you're fine. Which lets that person suffer more. at the same time, some people are assumed that they can't function if they have mental illness and they have their sort of dignity of risk and their dignity of choice them on a moral level and. think people would be surprised with just how many therapists out there, myself included, have mental illness and have lived experience. And I think that actually adds to the richness of their knowledge because they can understand their clients at a level far beyond what academia can describe. And there's also a general error that people make, although it's more, I'd say this is more made in academia than in the general public, but. There's an error that people make that assume that just because we've always thought about a specific experience, be it a mental illness or something else, mental, way over history, that it's always the correct way to think about it. And what academics don't often consider, and I, again, I don't see this taught very often, is the theories that we have in psychology are just our best attempt to explain something, but we can't. Create those experiences or change those experiences just by thinking about them a certain way. We have to understand that our brains are very complex and just by making theories about the brain, we can't actually change how the brain works. Our theories need to be a response to what we can observe, and what we learn about the brain as an attempt to explain why the brain works the way it does and how we can work with it. but we also have to be willing to change and challenge those theories when new information becomes available to us, or when an individual presents us information that violates them. Because when a client sits down with me, yes, theory is very important and it informs how I practice therapy to make sure that I'm practicing at a consistent quality and making sure that what I'm doing is safe. But if a client presents something that is completely different, to what theory explains, I have to be willing to adapt. Work with alternative frameworks work within that person's frame of reference. Otherwise, if the theory doesn't plausibly fit what the client's experiencing, then therapy simply won't work. And we have to accept that we are not Mother Nature, we're just trying to understand mother nature. So we have to be humbled that way.

Eric 18:44

I wanna step back a little bit. you had mentioned that other people would be amazed to find that some of their therapists, their counselors also have mental illnesses around the spectrum similar to themselves. Can I ask, has your personal experience with being on the spectrum changed the way that you show up as a counselor today?

John Cuturilo 19:05

Oh, absolutely. the fact that I'm willing to discuss my own experiences is something that was greatly influenced by that experience. As obvious as it may sound, a lot of counselors don't discuss it, and I can understand there are reasons for that, so I respect that, but I think. People are searching for relatability, and I can understand why having gone through therapy myself, that wasn't relatable. I know that the human connection is a missing link, but it's a crucial link that people need if they want to get the best from therapy. But it also strongly influences a lot of the language and a lot of the way that I conduct dialogue with my clients. Because I've experienced many of the same struggles. I'm able to use language and stories that aren't really, they're not conventional in the realms of academia, but they form a better relatability and a better bond between me and my clients. And ultimately, they help clients to understand themselves better in a way that perhaps they haven't been able to understand themselves yet. an example of this is when I explain executive functioning to a client and I explain why they're experiencing that brain fog as a symptom of their depression or anxiety, or a similar diagnosis or a similar experience, I say to them, we need to understand why this experience is real. Imagine you are trying to read a novel. At the same time as holding your hand over a hot stove, do you think you'd be able to concentrate? And inevitably a client will, in most cases, say no. unless they have a nerve problem, in which case they might not be able to feel the heat, but that's would be an exception. But they'd say, well, no, I wouldn't. And we ask, why is this? Because I'd be so preoccupied by the heat. And the fact that my was burning, that my tension wouldn't be able to be, I wouldn't be able to direct my attention to the novel. I'd say, okay, well, let's imagine that humans weren't designed that way and that when you put your hand in fire, you didn't feel it. What do you think would happen? Well, we'd be having injuries left, right, and center, and we'd probably die prematurely because we wouldn't be aware of the things that were harming us and a threat to us. We use this to then reframe the experiences that they're having. Things that physically harm us are not the only threats. We also have threats internally like anxiety or feeling depressed. Often those emotions are actually internal signals about things that our mind assumes we need to focus on. To extend that further, imagine we couldn't feel emotions. We would be devoid of something that makes us fundamentally human, but at the same time, we would be devoid of something that actually helps us survive. If we didn't feel fear in the face of a predator, wouldn't react to them. So we wouldn't have a signal inside of us. To defend ourselves. We wouldn't have a signal inside of us to run or to do something to protect ourselves. Now, depression works on, or anxiety or that type of brain fog or those types of intense emotions that can trouble us. They work on those same mechanics. The emotions are intensified because our mind is assuming. That there is a threat in our environment. In cases of depression, what we actually perceive as threat often is the world, a recurring narrative from depressive thoughts and depressive feelings. the world is fundamentally threatening, which it is in many ways, but depression is a maladaptive response to that. we perceive a threat, and our mind gives us a response in the forms of very intensely depressed feelings. our mind assumes that there's a threat there and that the feelings are our mind's way of signaling to us. There's a threat there that you need to focus on. But the intensity of that emotional response is exaggerated. It's the same with anxiety, when we have anxiety, We fear something that may happen. Our mind is aware that something may happen and the anxiety is a signal to us to focus on that potential event in an attempt to get us to do something to stop it happening. Often it doesn't actually involve that, but that's what our mind is trying to do. It's trying to protect us now. if you. Implicitly believe that there is a threat and your mind didn't do something to make you aware of it, then fundamentally you couldn't survive. That's what depression and anxiety are, that's why you find it so difficult to concentrate when you're experiencing depression and anxiety. It's not because you're not trying hard enough. It's not because you're just having negative thoughts and feelings. brain has registered a threat, but because of that depression and anxiety, the signals that it's sending you. Are exaggerated to the extent that your focus is entirely fixated on them because you're interpreting those supposed threats in the same way that you would interpret a threat that is actually there, like your skin being burned, and your mind is then redirecting your focus so that you can focus on what it assumes is a threat. Therapy then involves to question your own mind, not to second guess yourself or doubt yourself, but to question it compassionately. And to practice choosing where you direct your focus. That's obviously not an easy process, but it's something that with practice can be achieved. And I find that those kinds of stories or analogies help people to understand things in relatable terms. But I don't see these in academia. I had to develop them myself after learning why I was experiencing what I did, and then learning why other people experienced what I did. Fine tuning them in conversation with different people and learning to discuss things on that relatable level, I'd say is one of the biggest and most, helpful contributions that my lived experience has made to how I conduct therapy and how I show up.

Eric 24:23

you brought up something just there at the tail end that I kind of wanna dig a little deep. Burn to, and that's, you mentioned that, academia and parts of popular psychology can kind of miss the mark on what it means to truly understand. What do you think it gets wrong most often?

John Cuturilo 24:39

I'd say that the fundamental knowledge that I'm describing does exist in academic psychology. And if you look through the reams and reams of literature that exist in libraries throughout the world, fundamentally what I've described will be found there. So it's not, I wouldn't say that I've invented anything. I've just taken knowledge, tested it, challenged it. Discarded that, which isn't useful, but accepted that which is useful and just combined it in a way that I find is most useful to explain what needs to be explained. So I wouldn't say what I'm espousing as anything new, but what I do find has missed the mark in academia is that things aren't explained in a very concise, clear manner. I don't see a lot of that type of clear structured explanation to students because a lot of students won't have the experiences that their clients have, so they have to rely on theory. But I'd say that the theory could do a better job of being able to explain to. Butting therapists how these experiences operate so that they can better understand what their clients experience. They'll never be able to replicate it because there are certain things that can't be taught that can only be felt, but would do a much better job of actually explaining to therapists and therapists in training how these experiences often operate. So explaining from. The start. are the basic, fundamental human needs and mental illnesses occur as a result of our minds trying to meet these needs, but not being able to, and this is why these experiences take place. This is executive functioning. This is why those experiences occur in combination with each other. This is using some of those analogies that I just described to explain to someone who hasn't had. particular mental illnesses, this is what it's like. This is what your clients will most likely be experiencing. Although you always check that against the client's actual experience. You never take that for granted. And this is why certain therapies actually work We can then more effectively explain that to our clients. So the clients. can have a more confident sense of what to do because I find that what clients need most of all, is an explanation because a lot of clients, they have these experiences and it's really frightening because told is, oh, just get over it. they've never actually been able to gain closure of why am I having these frightening thoughts and feelings, and why can't I control it? So giving them a confident sense of this is why it's happening and this is why these certain steps are being taken therapy. That sort of confidence is absolutely critical for the client to have that sense of confidence because then gives them a much firmer basis on which to proceed and actually grasp the therapeutic activities. another large part of this, is academic psychology often treats different parts of our functioning as separate when they're actually similar our experiences as humans are based on a fundamental set of psychological needs. And a lot of our systems that we've created in civilization, like culture, religion, politics, economics, lot of the experiences that we have, like certain thought patterns, certain habits that we may develop. cultural trends, mental illnesses, a lot of them actually stem from those basic needs, either in an attempt to meet them or as a distortion of them. But what I find, is that too often treats them as being completely separate parts of our psyche. I would say it's more plausible to actually consider them that they're all derivatives of basic needs. And if you understand them that way, it allows you to understand how to solve problems in the realms of human experience, using that basic knowledge rather than constantly hitting barriers because you don't have all the knowledge that academia says that you, that you need. I'll give an example, An academic might tell you that trauma from relational abuse and trauma from religious abuse are separate phenomena, or they're two specialized fields. The basis on which trauma develops from basic relationships and the basis on which trauma develops from religion, religious institutions, they're remarkably similar. There may be differences in the surface level presentations, but the actual core mechanics are exactly the same. They derive when a person has had their fundamental sense of security threatened, and they've learned as a result of that. the world is a dangerous place and that either they can't trust the world or that they can't feel worthy of safety themselves, which influences how they approach relationships with other people and other tasks and other endeavors in their life. if we consider these domains to be separate, then not only are we constantly reaching barriers, but it also results in therapists working with clients in completely different ways for the same problem. I've worked with clients over the years who have suffered trauma, depression, relational problems. many of them have seen multiple therapists they've described inconsistencies whereby some therapists are great. They really understand what my experiences are. They give me actionable tasks to do. They've really helped me improve myself. They other therapists seem to take therapy in a completely different direction to what I defined. And the problem is that all of these therapists are working with different theories that define the problem differently. But it doesn't change the nature of the problem. So what I've tried to do is understand is the core mechanic of what the client is experiencing. What do they need? therapists shouldn't be afraid to check with their clients at regular intervals. Does this feel like I'm capturing the core of what you're experiencing? I always do it after the first session specifically whereby I discuss the core needs with the client and then I say, okay, we've discussed this. This is what could help. Does this feel safety? And does this feel like I've understood the core needs, and then regularly throughout the therapeutic relationship. we've had discussions, especially intense ones, we talk about it. We say, did this feel like it gave you a better understanding than what you had before? Do you feel like has given you clarity? Do you feel like I've captured the core of what you've told me? And importantly, we need to be open to clients saying, actually, I feel like we've missed the mark and be willing to correct things. And that's where I feel we've missed the mark often. And I'd say it's an inconsistency. It's not an absolute. There is plenty of quality therapy, but. If we captured the mark more consistently, I would say that could be a lot more consistent in terms of the quality that we deliver.

Eric 30:57

what inspired you? Because you have your own podcast, and I'm just curious what was the kickoff point for that? Because I feel like being the counselor that you are helping the people that you have helped that would be more than enough. But obviously you felt there was more to do on this front.

John Cuturilo 31:15

I'd always wanted to host a podcast, and one day I simply decided now's the time for me to finally do it. And the reason for that is that there's a lot that I can accomplish as a counselor, but I can't accomplish everything. there are most of the fields that I wanna address in my writing and in my podcasting. I won't address in counseling because my counseling clients come to me with specific needs, and it's my duty as a counselor to keep the counseling within those needs That's certainly it. it's certainly satisfying. I love helping people, even if it can be stressful at times because I hear people with having had a lot of devastating experiences, but I always feel a sense of accomplishment when I've been able to help someone in any way. there's so much about the world that I don't understand, but also that I feel we haven't properly taken the time to understand What I wanted to do was use my podcast as a platform to do a number of different things. Number one, to educate people, but number two, to also prompt thought a big part of my ethos is that I don't want people to just listen to what I do and take it on face value and say, okay, well this is John's perspective, therefore it must be correct. What I want to do is actually show people how I think about the subject, and then prompt them to do more critical thinking to think about what we take for granted and what we assume is the truth, but isn't necessarily guaranteed to be the truth. But I also want to prompt them to challenge ideas. in an intelligent way, including my own. that's why I love when possible inviting people onto my program or collaborating with other podcasters who have very distinctly different views from me or have very distinctly different perspectives because I want to learn how other people think. I want to learn. Where the strengths and weaknesses may be in my perspectives, which we can never really do unless we have other people give their input. And I ultimately want to just bring people closer together, where too often I've experienced in recent times actually a lot of hesitancy from other people who just don't wanna have conversations where there's a chance that we may disagree. And I actually try to encourage people and say, look. Discomfort is a natural part of life. we are biologically predisposed and psychologically predisposed to feel uncomfortable with we don't find familiar because our minds are constantly trying to protect us from threats. It's an evolutionary tendency, and we are more likely to see safety in what we know and what we don't know. So it's perfectly natural to feel uncomfortable, but can we really ever improve as people if we don't face the discomfort? And I don't think I could improve as a therapist, which again, all of us therapists, we are never perfect. We all have to be on a constant journey of improvement. I think one of the best ways for me to improve as a therapist is to be willing for other people to challenge how I think about the world so that I can learn how people think more and use that newfound experience in my therapeutic practice. Of course in therapy, I have to work within very strict ethical guidelines. So to give an example, I would argue that certain tendencies that we've developed, like the use of ai, the use of, certain approaches to our relations with other people, certain habits, they're not necessarily psychologically healthy. I would say that they don't do the best track core needs, when a client comes into therapy, those. Tendencies, not always appropriate for me to challenge them. if a client is smoking as a means of coping or using drugs, then I'll absolutely always challenge that them in a professional way, because that if they turn their attention away from those habits to more healthy habits, that they will lead a better quality of life if it's done properly, has to be done carefully, but those are things that need to be challenged. Otherwise, I'm not doing my job to actually help that person. Live the best life that they can. but I've also said in discussions with other people content that has thus far hasn't been published yet, but we'll do in them in the future, that we may be stretching stretching the boundaries of what's psychologically healthy in terms of. Being too reliant on spending, being too reliant on material wealth, being too reliant on loose relationship styles and sexual proclivities instead of being a little bit more reserved and careful in how we practice our sex loaves. perhaps being a little bit too reliant on media and watching television or playing video games to pacify us rather than seeking. and more wholesome things like our relationships with other people maybe doing things that speak to our values, like being creators or being artists or being constructors of things. And I would never obviously tell a client to stop playing video games because it's something that is very broad, it's very ambiguous. It's not gonna, inevitably cause harm to someone in the same way that smoking or drug use is, but. I think that it's worth, people at least think about that and understand that a lot of these things that we've started doing are things that we've invented. Now. It's not inevitably gonna cause us harm, but have to understand that whenever we introduce something that's invented into society, there's always a risk that we'll take it too far without realizing it. And so I don't wanna tell people, never have a polyamorous relationship or never engage in, say. a kinky relationship because some people are interested in that or never play video games or, never drink alcohol. But at the very least, just understand that whenever you do that, you're taking a risk and just know what the limits of that risk are and know how to manage it. and. Something that I'd advise any person in those cases just don't necessarily stop doing something just because I don't believe in it or that I find a risk with it, but rather just be aware of what the risks are. that speaks to being at odds because a lot of people see that as bigoted. And I quite frankly don't, I don't judge people for having those different lifestyles. I'm simply saying. We were created by nature, and nature gave us sort of a set of parameters. So just be aware that whenever you go beyond that, you may have great results or you may have not so great results as with anything. be aware of what the risks are. Just know that our minds aren't limitless, you know, they have certain parameters that they like to work within. And just be aware that if something doesn't work or if something's posing a risk to you, you might just wanna reconsider it. that's one of the biggest things that I'm trying to teach people. Just be aware that things we take for granted may not be as they seem. people are free and should be free to do with that as they choose, as long as they're not hurting anyone else. But just be aware that even if you're not hurting anyone else, you might also be harming yourself and be careful not to harm yourself. be, compassionate to yourself that way.

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I hope today's conversation gave you a new perspective on mental health, identity, and the importance of understanding the experiences that shape all of us. A huge thank you to John for sharing his story, his knowledge, and his perspective. Conversations like this remind us that behind every person is a journey we may not fully see, and sometimes the most powerful thing we can do is listen. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider sharing it with somebody who might need to hear this message. Remember, every story matters, every voice deserves to be heard, and your experiences are part of what makes you who you are. If you'd like to be a part of the podcast, please send me an email at hereforyoupod. That's H-E-A-R, the number four, Y-O-U-P-O-D @gmail.com. Till then, I look forward to talking to you in the next one.