4: Beyond the Rat Race: Demystifying the Ego Pt. 2

In this episode, Kylie & Julie examine how the ego uses social media and negative emotions—sadness (lack), anger (attachment), and fear (control)—to create a "mask" that hides our true selves. Kylie shares her personal journey of healing from her mother’s suicide through prayer and sobriety. Ultimately, they emphasize surrendering to God and supporting those in pain with unconditional love.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to the Miracle Path Podcast. I am your co-host, Kylie, and I'm sitting here with the amazing Julie. Hi. Hi, everyone. We're so happy to be here. And before we get started, we do want to just do a little disclaimer. Number one, we're not medical health, mental health professionals. Everything that we share here is through experience, and we're not the source of this information. We are just sharing. And we will mention suicide in this. So we just care about your nervous system so much and just want to give you a heads up. And you know, we hope that you can stay around for this conversation because it's it's deep and it's important to open up the conversation about something that's so stigmatized. And before we get started on the topic, I was curious about Julie and how has God been in your life and what you're experiencing and anything that's coming up for you that God is showing you.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Yeah, I um I was thinking just about God. And we prayed before we started recording, and you said this word surrender, which I was like, whoa, yes. I have not heard that word in a little while, but recently I feel like motherhood has forced me to surrender so much. So just currently I've been totally giving of my heart, my body, my life, my my daughter, my experience to God in so many ways, more than I ever have before, which I think is amazing. So recently I've I've been doing the mom thing. Adelina is six weeks old. I can't believe how fast she's growing. She just started smiling at us.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

Oh my gosh. You guys, she is so beautiful. Just saying.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Thank you. Um, she is quite beautiful, but I am very biased. Uh, but she just started smiling, and it's so sweet because it doesn't happen all the time, but when you catch it, it is the most beautiful thing you've ever seen. And every single time I look into her eyes, I see God. It is so miraculous to experience that. And I remember when I was pregnant, you were talking to me about just motherhood. And I remember you saying, like, you are going to experience such an expansion. You're gonna like your your heart is gonna be bursting, like it's just your life is just gonna burst wide open. And I I remember you being so excited for me, Kylie, to experience that. And I remember you saying, like, you are excited to hear what that experience is like becoming a mom. So it's it's truly miraculous. It is a miracle. She is a miracle. The fact that she just knows what to do as a baby, you know, and the fact that my body knows what to do. I am breastfeeding, and so that's another thing too. It's just I'm truly experiencing the goodness of the Lord in my baby, which is absolutely wonderful. But with that comes a ton of surrender. So I've really been just meditating on when I feel stress or when I feel any sort of feeling that I'm having a hard time during the journey of motherhood. I'm realizing it's it's nothing that my creator can't hold from me. It's it's nothing that my creator can't solve for me. I almost don't want to say solve. I'm not sure what like a good word would be, but but it truly is is wonderful to know that I'm protected from a from a higher source through all of this change. I'm not in this, I'm not alone. It's it's really a wonderful thing. So so surrender, yeah, and trust, mad trust. That's been happening a lot with me.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Yeah, and you're doing so amazing. And the fact that you're able to do this right now is it's just incredible, and I'm so lucky to experience this with you. And I'm not a mom, but I've just heard that you just are different, and your capacity to love grows, and your capacity to feel pain also grows, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Right. Yeah, to feel the the negative with the positive at the same time is it's a lot, and the hormones are surging, but the love is surging. I'm just grateful it's getting a little bit warmer outside. So just being outside in nature with her and enjoying the sunshine with her, like God has truly blessed me. So I feel I feel extremely blessed. So so that's what I've been kind of going through along my path. But how about you, Kylie? What's been going on on your journey with the Lord? Any anything popping up for you?

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Yeah, a lot. And on the outside, there's a lot of personal things going on. We're about to move, and there's just a lot of changes on the outside, but I'd say the the biggest change for me is this amazing journey that we're taking together in this container, and it's expanding me, and it's also really challenging. And you know, before we decided on the topic and plan for this topic and and all of that, I was I swear saunas are like the best place to meditate.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

I love a sauna.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

I mean, it's just I can't explain it, besides like the downloads and the information and just even specific sentences I get from my creator. It's like, whoa, that was not of me. Yes, this information. And so discussing the next uh topic with the ego, and I was I received information about sharing some really intimate heaviness that I've experienced in my life, and so I'm going through some growing pains and a lot of fear because it's intimate and it's sacred, but it's on my heart to share, and I'm so inspired to share it, and it's just been a journey to even press record on this one. Yeah. And so I'm just taking it moment by moment. But I was reminded yesterday and we've been like trying to get at it, and I'm saying it, and my ego is just the perfectionist part of my ego is coming online like no other. And I was reminded yesterday and even this morning, just like there's no words, there's no podcast. There's no even reading words that can capture the experience of our creator and the love and the experience of the protection and the divine intelligence, and it's something that will never words cannot even just and even expressing like really deep, intimate grief and feelings. There's no words that can perfect the experience, and it is constant being a part in in the present and experiencing God, but it's like again, good luck. That's all I heard from God. Good luck, honey.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

I was like, Yeah, good luck trying to you make it absolutely perfect because I just want you to be yourself, pretty much that is it. As you were talking, I feel like when we try that perfectionism, I deal with that too. And I think anytime we try to be the best of the best or absolutely perfect in so many ways, it's almost like we are we want a grade. We want somebody to say, you get an A plus, you get a 100%. And God is like, I don't give out any grades, babe. I I'm not doing that for you. I need you to know that you are 100% perfect in your in whatever you give out, as long as you're aligned, aligned with me. Yeah, because in the end, we are created in the image of our Lord, we are created in God's image. So when He looks at us, He only sees beauty, He only sees light, he only sees love. And we have to remember that. We have to remember that. Wow, that's a really powerful message, Kylie. Um I'm so happy that we get to expand in this journey together. Expand and contract, yeah, both they go hand in hand, they do all right. Well, that's our little update now. Let's just kind of jump into what this episode is going to be about. So, this is part two of demystifying the ego. We have a part one already out. So if you have not listened to part one, we do encourage you to go back because it will. We did talk a lot about the underlying beliefs of the ego, which are lack, attachment, and control. And a lot of this relates to The Three Beliefs of the Ego by Aaron Abke, which is a wonderful book that Kylie and I have both read. Life-changing book, and really a book that will expand your understanding of this shadow self that we call the ego, which which everybody experiences in their own way. It's a part of us, it's a part of what we deal with. So today we're gonna get a little bit more into how our ego manifests in our lives and what that looks like and how we deal with it, and where we go from there. Because I do think the first step is understanding the ego, and uh that is an important step, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:26

Yeah, that that nonstop negative narrative, that activity, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:33

That activity of loveless chatter, of uncontrollable thoughts, often negative. So, so we're gonna kind of get into a little bit more, like I said, about it, how it manifests in our lives, and I want to touch on something I know is a really big part of uh daily life, especially for people in their 20s and 30s, and in this kind of 21st century modern world, and that's social media. So Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, X. I'm I'm not on Twitter or X. I don't think I could handle even more social media. It's so much, and it's really this influx of information that's really what uh we we see on social media. So, you know, the ego, Kylie, we've talked about in the last episode. The ego makes us believe that we're lacking in some way, and then that thought of lack. So whether it be I don't have enough money, I'm not uh I don't I don't weigh the right amount, like I'm I'm not beautiful enough, I don't have a big enough house, I don't have a nice enough car, I don't have a good enough job, my relationship is not as wonderful as I want it to be. That that lack, that thought of lack from the ego, really plays into social media.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Oh, yeah, they're best friends.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

They're best friends because I don't know about you, but when I would log on to Instagram and I would see other people who oftentimes I did not know personally, people that I was following, maybe influencers or people from reality TV that I had seen, I saw the lives that they were living, and I so badly wanted some of that for myself. And I thought that if I was watching them the on Instagram, on social media, that I could almost be a part of that too. And in the back, then in my subconsciousness, though, it was that I was lacking, right? I I didn't get a chance to go to Italy. I want a chance to fly on a plane to Italy, to a gorgeous island, to wherever they were taking pictures. And I wanted to be a part of that, right? I don't have that in my daily life, so I need to get that on social media. I need to see that on social media. So it's that really thought of lack, I think that is that that plays a big role in why people are so addicted to social media. Um so with that too, we'll play into this whole I I need to do this, I need to do this, I need to do this in my life so that I can get what other people have. And I maybe that's kind of what influencing is all about, too.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

That we that we, if we just do what somebody else tells us on Instagram to do, you know, do this workout and you're going to get the best abs. You know, it do this 20-minute workout every single day, and your body is going to look this way. Um, I just think it's such a fallacy. And and when we're on Instagram or when we're on social media and we we think that okay, I just need to do this, and then I'm gonna feel complete, then I'm going to look beautiful, then I'm going to be happy, is again uh comes from the ego.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

Right. It's that belief that once I get this, then I will feel peace. I will be happy, I will all these things.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Right, right. It's that that belief that there's something else I need that I don't have within myself, right? And um, so that creates a lot of attachment, it creates control in in our lives too. Ego, ego then thinks that we can control uh exactly what what we want in our lives rather than looking toward a higher power, rather than trusting in God, rather than surrendering all of our fear and all of our worry to God, instead we over plan, we overthink, we overdo, because then we decide we're in control, I'm in control of my life.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Yeah, and a big part for me is I felt like I worked so hard to try to control my narrative on how people perceived me, yeah. And just thinking that I can control that is when you say it out loud, it's like you can't control people's thoughts, not even a little bit, not even your cat, you know, it's it's just a crazy way of thinking, but that's how like I was operating on social media before I took like a year and a half break where I was like, I was just trying to control my narrative and be this thing online that was just not who I am, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Exactly. It was like a like a mask, and I think a lot of people use social media as a mask too, because they only share the beautiful parts of themselves, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:21

And that's I mean, that's all being talked about too. So it's just but but it still is contributing to a lot of comparison. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Yeah, and that kind of relates to how it manifests in our life then, right? So when we and for me too, I had taken, I got off of Instagram about like two years ago. And I decided, I actually decided my New Year's resolution in January of 24 that I was going to take January off of Instagram just to see like what it felt like because I knew that it was taking up a ton of my time. And I just knew it wasn't serving me. And it was also about the time that I was I was looking for a little bit of spiritual growth. I was I was searching for something deeper, I was into crystals. I got so into crystals. All my friends are like, you are the crystal. Like it's like you are the crystal girl. Like I became the crystal girl, and I I own it.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

I love your crystal gifts. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

I love to give crystals as gifts, they are they're powerful. And crystals do hold a power, but really it's it's how you feel about the crystals rather than the crystal itself. But right, that's another conversation for another time. But like I said, I was I was searching, and so I said, I'm gonna just get off of Instagram. I'm gonna give myself a month. And after that month, I felt so good, but then I was like, oh, it's February 1st. I can download Instagram again. So I remember I downloaded it, downloaded it again, and when I got back on, I was like, oh, you know, this is this doesn't feel great. And I think then I was able to say, like, oh, social media is making me feel negative about myself. It's not giving, it's not giving me those positive feelings. If anything, it was helping me deny a lot of my feelings, it was helping me to kind of put like a cover over it, and I didn't have to think about anything as I was scrolling, but also I would look on other people's pages or see other people, and I would feel inferior. I would feel bad about myself, I would feel self-loathing, I would feel, oh my gosh, I have to go do this and this and this. I would feel all these, I would feel anxiety. And once I got off of it and then got back on, I was able to be more present and I was able to see, okay, this thing is actually controlling my feelings and not really doing anything to help me in any way. And so then after that, it is kind of funny because then I said, Okay, well, I'm not gonna be on Instagram during the week, but I could be on it on the weekends. And so I did that for a while, and then eventually I was like, no, I just need to totally cut off and delete it. And um, and that really served me because then I was able to be more present with my reality, and I was a lot more present with my emotions, which was really nice.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Oh, yeah. I mean, what a great way to numb your feelings is to just scroll and scroll and not and avoid and procrastinate. That's a big thing. Personally.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

With that note too, it's like when you are being numbed, when you're being numbed and you're on social media and you're scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. I would spend like 45 minutes to an hour before bed every night scrolling. And then once you got, once you finally put the phone down, that was the hardest part because you felt so low. Once, once the once the noise went away, you were like, oh my gosh, why did I why did I spend all this time on my phone? Why did I look at all why did I do why was I doing that? I remember thinking like, oh my gosh, I was supposed to go to sleep 45 minutes ago and I didn't. And I just kept asking myself, why, why, why? And there's no answer to that. There's there's no purpose for for the scrolling.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Yeah, it's just so addictive. So it's just designed that way. It's just designed to be manufactured dopamine.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

That's all it is. It's not real.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Mm-mm. And I think that goes hand in hand with the ego because the ego, first of all, will will make you think that all of this, all of these earthly things are real. That if you just get more love from your partner, you'll be happy. If you just get more money, you'll be happy. If you just have a bigger house, you'll be happy. And all of that is illusions. And that's that attachment, right? Like I'm attached to getting more money. And I know you told me one time, Kylie, if I could share this story.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

Yeah. Let it rip.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Yeah. Right, we're open. You told me one time that when you were working, I think it was like before you turned 30 or something, you wanted to reach a certain salary. You wanted to make a certain amount of money. You were attached to that. And once you made it, you felt nothing.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

I felt nothing. It was so wild. I remember kind of forgetting about it. And then the taxes came came in tax season. And Reed like read me the number, and it was a little bit over than what I was my like attachment to. Right. Because I thought it would like make me feel some type of way. And I didn't even feel anything. And I was sober at the time too.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

And so I really experienced it for what it was. And I was like, that's so weird. I was so stunned that the fact that I didn't feel a hit of something. And I'm like, whoa. Okay, this money thing, money chasing, like, actually is not gonna bring me joy. Like, uh, you I think of course it's important to feel safe and stable and not worry, but at the same time, I was like, it was profound.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

I love that because you were you were attached to this outcome because your ego told you if you just make this much money, you're gonna be worth something. You're going to have something greater than you have now. And that is such an illusion. Everything that we need right now to be happy is is given to us every single minute of every single day from our our Lord, from our creator, from our from the universe, from this source, from our source. So such a I love that story.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. But yeah, I mean, try it for yourself. That's all I have to say. But also feel it like actually sit with that that emotion when you reach your goal, sit with it, see how long it lasts.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

And that's the other thing, too, right? Like, we do need to recognize our emotions. We need to we need to feel the way that the ego is making us feel.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

We need to recognize that the Lord doesn't want us to constantly feel negative. The Lord in in his plan for us, in his path for for us, it's not a path of pain. Now, is life painful? Yes, because we have free will, because we are living in a physical reality. I think we talked about on the last episode, we said that if we didn't have free will, if we didn't have the ego, we would probably be living in bliss and we wouldn't even know it. So there's a beauty within the pain. But I think number one, we need to first recognize it.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

Totally. Yeah, we have to be present with it. And you kind of bridged in about emotions and how I think I grew up thinking that if I showed a lot of emotion, then I was seen as weak. And my dad would always say, and love him, but I grew up as an athlete and doing all those things, and he would say, rub some dirt on it. Like that was my motto. Like I wasn't really allowed to to like, or I didn't feel like I was allowed to really cry, honestly, and feel sad. It was I was my base was like anger for a long time, for a long time, but I I digress. So going back to emotions and seeing them as messengers is a really amazing way to look at it for me, because now I'm befriending my emotions, and I think our creator gave us this amazing and he and in the book emotional guidance system, and how it shows us how we're we're feeling, and so the idea to that our emotions will leave us astray, and that don't trust your emotions. I think that that doesn't feel right or good to me at all. Now that I'm able to actually feel my emotions and knowing that they're actually not directions at all, they're just there to show us where our emotions really never tell you what to do in any situation. That's the role of the ego, is to react. That's huge. Yeah, and I think the the way the book listed out emotions, and it's kind of strange because he talks about there's only three negative emotions. And when I read that, I was like, that that doesn't seem real. That can't be right, it can't be that simple. It can't, you know. And when I tell you that we've read this book a while ago, like I've taken this information and used it in my life, and it has changed the way I view my negative emotions and the way I feel these emotions. And he kind of he explained it as yes, of course, we have a tapestry of emotions and expressions, of course, but it comes down to three. So, and he explains negative emotion like contraction, and the opposite of that is positive emotion, and that's more of energizing and expansion, where negative is the other side of that. And so he says the three emotions, which it's interesting because it each three has a link to each three beliefs of the ego. So the ego uses our negative emotions as well, but it's all about thinking of it at a as a different angle, have a different perspective. So one emotion, negative emotion is sadness, and that's directly linked to lack. The second one is anger, and that's directly linked to attachment, and I'll explain. And then fear is another negative emotion that's directly linked to control.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

And I think it's yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 31:17

Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

Before you go on, I think it's it's good to remember that the ego wants us to feel continue to feel these negative emotions. The ego like in our ego mind, there is that personal doership, there's that you're in control, you need to you need to react, you need to defend, you need to judge, and that's the ego feeds off of that. It's that's and it will consistently be fed if you feed it, right? It will it will continue. It's it's a spiral.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

Right. And the when we feel sadness, it's how it's directly linked to lack. A question is, because now I'll be like, okay, what am I feeling? And if I'm feeling if I'm feeling sad, sadness, I ask myself, okay, where do I think I'm lacking in anything? What do I feel like I'm missing?

SPEAKER_01 32:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

So those are the questions I ask.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

And then for So when you so when you are feeling out of sync, let's just say like you're feeling negatively, you truly take a minute and pause before before doing anything else, before reacting, before defending, you you take that like I think. What did you say before the beauty is in the pause? Or you need that pause moment to think, okay, I need to consider what this is stemming from, right?

SPEAKER_00 33:07

Okay, yeah. And I simply ask myself, and I'm not perfect every time, that's for sure. And I'm trying to always remember that it's I'm perceiving something not true. Yeah, it's my perception that's off. And so with anger, is as directly attached to attachments, I ask myself, what outcome was I attached to that I'm pissed off about, that it didn't happen this way. I was attached to a certain circumstance that didn't go my way. And then fear directly linked to control. If I'm feeling fear, which sometimes I have a hard time identifying, but it's anxiety, it's overthinking, overanalyzing. And I ask myself, okay, like what am I trying to control? So those are the three questions. And it it takes away so much extra thought process and time and energy because then I'm able to identify exactly where I'm lacking, exactly what I'm trying to control, exactly what I was attached to. It's incredible. I was like, I can't believe that it's this simple.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

It's it's beautiful because it is it's almost a guide to deal with these emotions because feeling sad, and you already said it before, right? We have a tapestry of emotions. It's not just sadness, right? It's it's depression, it's it's other feelings too. Like I was thinking with anger, I'm not really an angry person, but sometimes I feel disappointed, or sometimes I feel frustrated, or sometimes I feel a little bit of um feelings that relate to anger, but maybe don't come out as like I'm not like rampaging through through my apartment, but I'm feeling maybe resentment. I feel like resentment is a little bit of anger because I'm attached to an outcome and it it helps guide to guide you or helps to guide me with these questions what to do when I feel this way, because sometimes we do get stuck in our emotions, and that's where people want to say, Oh, just rub some dirt on it, just let it go. And that's easier said than done. Just let it go. Sometimes you can. Sometimes I can say, okay, whatever, it wasn't a big deal. But sometimes I need to ask myself, like you said, Kylie, and what is it that I was attached to? What is it that's really bothering me? What do I feel like I'm lacking? Why do I feel so sad? What is this? Feel what am I lacking? And then you can say to yourself, Oh, I feel like I'm lacking love. Oh gosh, okay. What do I have in my life that is full of love? And then that's where you can you can find the light, which I love so much.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

Thanks for bringing that example in. Because just because you know what attachment or what idea of lack or whatever you're feeling that you're lacking doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt, doesn't mean that like we're bypassing this. It means that okay, like I need to look at it a different way. And sometimes it takes several days to process. Yeah, yeah, and that's okay. But it's our job to not react to that. And if you don't know the direction that you're supposed to go with whatever circumstances happens, gosh, just wait until you know.

SPEAKER_01 36:59

Yeah, right. And pray. I I think that we definitely need to do a uh session and uh episode on prayer because meditate, pray, meditate, and don't feed into those thoughts, don't keep feeding those egoic thoughts. I think that's where knowing its ego is so helpful because then you're reminded, oh, that's not of God. That's my that's my shadow self. That is that part of me that thinks I'm in control. Right. And when you can sit down and say, Dear Lord, I feel like I'm lacking love, show me your love. Please show me how much you love me today. And and God will offer you a sign, God will offer something to you, but you need to kind of get back into your awareness and get back into alignment.

SPEAKER_00 37:51

Yeah, and thanks, thanks for sharing that. But yeah, that that's a whole nother conversation.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

It really is.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

Because I've experienced that, and man, on the other side of our asking for from the creator is so much joy, it's so much joy and so much love and so much comfort and release and relief. But this goes to show that just because, like, you we understand these concepts, right? That there are levels to sadness and depression that's so severe, and I have firsthand experience of this. When I was 18, my mom passed by suicide, and she was such a wonderful mom. She was a a sister, a daughter, a friend, and that's why I've I've just been having such a hard time to express this because I've never expressed this on a this type of container. But yeah, when I was 18, so that was about four, 14, 15 years ago. And so I've had obviously a lot of time to process it, but I wasn't able to actually go through it and feel it like until I was 10 years in, because alcohol was such a wonderful tool for me. But you know, this this is so sacred, and it's so important. I I want this to be known is that I love my mom more than I've ever loved her in my life right now, like right here, right now. And she's constantly showing me how much she loves me through this process. And I have so much gratitude for her life experience. And it took a lot of work and a lot of time, but it was all because I allowed God to show me, and there's there's just a lot with with that and suicide and that topic, but it it's just it's one thing that people it's it's happening more and more. I apparently I I searched it and 2021 was like a peak high for suicide rate. And so that was, you know, my mom passed in 2011, so I grew up, and that was the first time I've ever experienced that. And I know that everyone I was was in contact with for the most part, that was their first time as well.

SPEAKER_01 40:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

So our whole community was rocked, and you know, the softball community, because she we played, I played college and travel ball, and she was like the team mom. And like people called her Mama K. And it was just completely devastating, and no one knew how to even respond to it. And I think I internalized it so much because I was the oldest, and I was approaching a time in my life where I had to go to college, and so I just internalized it, and I felt just so much shame and so much guilt, and honestly, a lot of embarrassment. And the after I got through the initial shock of it all, anger was my base. That was where I was living. And thank God I was blessed with the ability to play competitively because I was able to really release a lot of that. And it was so like it's so divine that I was able to play like through college, because if I didn't have that, like I had a coach, so like I had a like somebody watching over me, kind of in a way, yeah, and guiding me, and like and that was a whole other journey, but but yeah, it was it was interesting though, because when I was thinking about how I was gonna share the story, I was in real time, I remembered something that I totally forgot, and that so I was raised in like the Catholic Church, but I disassociated a lot from it, like it just wasn't interesting to me. And I remember why I was so angry at church and God is because the I heard that if somebody commits suicide, they're going straight to hell, and that shit fucked me up. Excuse my French, but that was so devastating to hear and to internalize that rocked me, and you know, never did I ever feel that like God doesn't exist, but it was more like, how could you do this to me? How could you do this to our family? Yeah, like how could you let her get so bad? And I had to, you know, process all of this emotion and and go through that. But you know, I think it's something that people are still so afraid to talk about and discuss because it's so complex. But, you know, I'm I'm just in a place now where I'm just like filled with gratitude. Like I am I'm so grateful that I have this relationship that I have with my mom that's been like showing up ever since like this conversation probably. Or two, like she's been showing up in my life, like in profound ways, like two with two days within getting the information that I was gonna share this. Yeah, I saw like two bald eagles within 48 hours, and you guys like I have a thing with birds, okay. But it was it was just yeah, just a lot, but so much guidance and but a lot of fear because I don't want to get it wrong, and right, right.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

Well, I think you just opening up about it is so amazing. First of all, thank you for sharing that because I love I love the way you shared that because you said you felt a lot of embarrassment after it happened and shame. And I think it's interesting that you connected it back to the Catholic Church that you probably internalized that subconsciously when you were younger, and so when that all happened, you you thought, yeah, like you know, she's she's not even with God, she's not even in heaven, she's you know, how dare you God for for doing this because she was obviously an earthly angel, right? The way you described her. So I think that's super interesting, but there is a lot of shame around this topic, and it's so taboo to talk about, even though people are suffering. Not only are people suffering with depression who may have suicidal thoughts, but the people who are in the community of a person who commits suicide and has to and they deal with the aftermath, they're in pain as well. So I think this whole episode too is but kind of we've been talking about this idea of we can't numb ourselves, we it's not what God is intending for us. We can't not talk about it, you know. That's kind of how I'm how I'm perceiving or how I'm kind of taking it in.

SPEAKER_00 46:24

Yeah, yeah. And you know, I'm in 2025, it was a really difficult year, but I was sober and I was able to experience a lot of negative feelings and sit with them and process. And you know, a a loved one of mine was experiencing a deep, deep level of depression, and you know, in my head, I'm like, here we go again. But right, I have this relationship with my creator that was that is just growing and that I didn't have access to because of my heart and because I just was never shown. And you know, I wanted to just give some advice because I have firsthand experience with this stuff, and the good good news is about it is that this person that I'm mentioning, they are on this beautiful path. And you know, I won't get too too in the weeds of it and the details, but you know, I approached it in in a way that I I prayed so much, and I asked really special people, including yourself, to pray and help. And of course, in miracles helped me a lot in this process because I realized that I need to perceive this person as fully healed, full of love because our energetic selves, our bodies, our energies can feel that. And so it was my job to perceive her as healed and loved, and shower this person with so much love. And that's my advice is it like if you know somebody that's struggling with with depression, shower them with love every single day, as much as you can. Overextend yourself because they just need it. And when you're looking at somebody like they're sick, that they're you know, there's something wrong with them, like even though you might not say it, they feel it. They're inner their body feels it, and you're just reinforcing their feeling of lack, their feeling that there is something missing, their feeling of not enoughness, and it's a lack of love. And so, you know, that's that's just my advice. I'm actually going to like a a class this Thursday to learn more about like warning signs and stuff because it's oh wow, yeah. No, it kind of it was, you know, all divine, but but yeah, I think that this is an important topic.

SPEAKER_01 49:26

Kylie, that advice was I am a little teary-eyed, and I think I've dealt with my own bouts of depression, and I think just hearing you give that advice of to shower them with love, because when you're in the darkest depths of depression, you can't feel any love from from within. It's it's hard to find any sort of love within. So feeling any love, being able to to at least even if they don't receive it, you know, it's it's not your job to make sure they receive it. It's just your job to give it.

SPEAKER_00 50:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:19

Even if they don't they can't receive it, it's important because just feeling any sense from the outside of love, you just never know when there's gonna be a crack in in the facade of depression. There's gonna be there's gonna be a chance for that love to get in. And once that love gets in, then it can start to grow.

SPEAKER_00 50:45

And it's important that we we really surrender it to. And the praying part was, I mean, I am so grateful. I'm so grateful for what I've witnessed through the change, but prayer was the most important. It was the most, it was my only reaction and love. Prayer and love, and and you know, it's important that we don't try to understand it, that we don't overanalyze it and try to control it because we can't, we don't have that power. There's only one that can crack that, right?

SPEAKER_01 51:26

Right. Yeah, I think my go-to when I when I feel this sense of what did we say control was fear? Yeah, and fear is probably my biggest negative emotion that I deal with. But when we feel that sense of lack of control and we don't know what to do, and we're trying to figure out what to do, my go-to response or my go-to thing is all we can do is pray. That's it. And I've heard other people say that, but now I've almost been able to internalize it a lot more. Now that I have more of a relationship with God, is now I understand that truly all you can do is pray sometimes, yeah, and ask the Lord to intercede when we don't know what to do. God knows, yeah, and He will help us, He will help you to know, just as you were talking before about meditating in the sauna, and you get those signs, you get that sentence that's not of you, right? That's the power of prayer, that's the power of meditation, it's the power of God, and it's real, babe. It is 100% real, it's more real than anything on this earth, any physical thing I can touch.

SPEAKER_00 52:56

Yeah, absolutely. But thank you so much for holding space for me in this.

SPEAKER_01 53:03

This was gorgeous, beautiful, amazing, overwhelming in the most beautiful way. I am my cup of overflow with love for you. Oh, thank you. I feel it's Monday. I I feel so energized a little bit right now, and it's Monday, and we're gonna have a fantastic rest of our week.

SPEAKER_00 53:25

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 53:26

Oh amazing. You you are amazing. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for being vulnerable and experiencing all of those emotions and and being able to share. I really think that this is a topic that a lot of people can connect with.

SPEAKER_00 53:43

Yeah, and something that I think we'll we'll come back to because I've got there's just so much, so much that I'm excited to share.

SPEAKER_01 53:52

Exactly. Exactly. Well, thank you for listening. This has been the Miracle Path Podcast. If you can leave us a review, we would be so grateful. Five-star review. Um, but please let us uh know in the comments how you feel about any of this, and feel free to email us if you have any concerns or any other questions or ways that we can make this podcast even better.

SPEAKER_00 54:20

Thank you so much. Love you all.

SPEAKER_01 54:22

Thank you. We'll talk to you next time. Bye bye.