Behind The Buckles Episode 10 w/ Mel Coleman

This week on Behind the Buckles, Circle Talk, we sat with 16x NFR qualifier, 20x Canadian Finals qualifier and 7x Canadian Champion, Mel Coleman. We dive into life on the road, how rodeo has changed over the years and how the breeding of bucking horses has changed as well. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Hello everybody and welcome back to Behind the Buckles. We are here with 16-time NFR qualifier and our very good friend Mel Coleman. Abby is with Mel and Joseph, so we're gonna let them kind of take over today. And anytime me and Megan need to chime in, we'll just go ahead and chime in. So we're gonna leave it to you guys.

SPEAKER_04 0:18

Okay, yeah, we're here in the county. Beautiful Joseph Oregon sitting here with Mel. You she said 16-time NFR qualifiers, but also 20-time Canadian finalists. Also, we have what seven bronck writing titles, five all around. And you know what the thing that I did find that was really cool? Is even with all of the amazing uh Canadians that we have had, you and Bo Cooper are the only two that have won the CPRA and the PRCA rookie of the year the same year. Is that correct? I think so. That's I mean that's what year did you win the rookie of the year?

SPEAKER_02 0:59

What year was that now?

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Uh quite a bit before when you guys were born.

SPEAKER_04 1:07

Yeah, and Bo Cooper was 01. So I mean that's a spread, and there's been a lot of great Canadians.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Actually, I've got 24 qualifications to the Canadian Finals.

SPEAKER_03 1:19

Okay. 24 and and 20 of those are consecutive?

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Uh uh 20 consecutive, and then one more in the Bronco, and 21, and then I made it three times in the team rope and so not many people know that.

SPEAKER_04 1:32

Oh, so then I see what you're saying. Okay, yes. Yeah. Apples and oranges, but didn't you make it in the calf roping also? No. No calf roping, just team roping, not just. Okay, okay, so yes. And also, you were on the Olympic team? Why have we never talked about this?

SPEAKER_03 1:57

In Salt Lake?

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Yeah, I was in the actually, I was doing the team rope. A team rope for Canada. See? So, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:05

I so I want to the only year the Olympics has had rodeo, or is there other years that the Olympics have incorporated that?

SPEAKER_01 2:15

They had it in uh 88 in Calgary. Oh yeah. And then they had it in 2002 and was actually was in Farmington, Utah, uh, but it was with Salt Lake.

SPEAKER_04 2:27

Salt Lake. Okay. What was that? It was fun. Yeah, especially then. I mean the Olympics was a I mean, it is still a huge deal, don't get me wrong. But I mean it was very well that's a prestigious thing. I don't know how I didn't know that you were an Olympian.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

Did you win the gold for Canada? I was gonna say, did you medal?

SPEAKER_01 2:45

I didn't. Uh I didn't. Uh they I didn't get a medal, but Wayne Scott and I, uh, that's who I roped with. We would have won the average had they had an average. We bought three of them pretty fast, but we they they faded in round uh so Murray Linscombe and Rocky Dallin actually won the gold. Oh. So they beat Speed and Rich.

SPEAKER_04 3:13

Oh, cool. That's awesome. You were individuals on the team. Individuals on the team. Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:22

So I actually I went to school with Rocky Dallin's daughter, Jenna, and she's kicking buttons the breakaway now, so that's pretty cool. She can outro most men, I'm pretty sure.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Oh, that's a yeah, the good teacher.

SPEAKER_02 3:33

Yeah, yeah. Sounds like it.

SPEAKER_04 3:36

That's very cool. Well, so why don't you just go ahead and give us a little bit of a rundown? Let's start kind of like with how it began. How did you start out from the get get-go knowing that you were going to be a Bronck rider? Is that, or how was it with your family? How did this all start?

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Actually, uh no. I thought I was gonna be, I was a steer rider. My family was involved in the rodeo business when I was a young kid, from the time I was so five, six years old, we were going to rodeos all summer long. My dad picked up for Vern Franklin. My mom uh barrel raced with the timer, what whatever, you know, was kind of a it was all kind of a family get togethers back in them days. And so then I became a steer rider, and then of course, all steer riders want to be bow riders. Thank God that I was not a very good I got on quite a few years. Uh you practiced a lot. Any of them that bucked hard enough to win anything on, I couldn't ride. And and then it ready really rank bowls uh that would hook you and do all that stuff in those days. He was mostly, you know, kind of herd bowls and that sort of stuff. But some of them bucked pretty good. But I you know, I'm 13, 14 years old getting on them, and uh it didn't wasn't a good result. But I didn't get hurt. So that was that's a positive. Yes. That's a positive. You gotta look at the bright side of it. Uh probably got on, I got an old album full of alright. Most of them are taking fairly close to you. But no, was very unsuccessful, got on a couple bareback horses. Uh not good. I was really too young when I was trying those other events. And then when I was like 16, uh got a bronze saddle, and and it was just like the light went off. And I made the finals two years later.

SPEAKER_04 5:53

I saw that. I saw that you made it quickly. You won Calgary, your rookie year, also. Like you just came out of the gates, like guns ablazing. Who did you have a real mentor, or you just like it just started working and you were just on the rodeo now?

SPEAKER_01 6:07

I I went to a few amateur rodeos when I was like the summer I was 16 and in 17. I didn't go to any amateur rodeos. I only went to pro rodeos and wrote on a permit, and they had in Canada they had what's called the amateur bronch drive.

SPEAKER_04 6:27

Oh, yes, psychic calories still.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Yeah, so so you could, and I was like crossing, I was entered both in Vance or both uh competitions. And then in them days, of course, they weren't getting 60, 70, 80 Brock drivers at all the Bronx uh at all the rodeos, so they actually were would put some really nice horses in the amateur. And the quickest way to learn how to ride is to get on nice horses. You learn how to spur one before they before you get bucked off. Yeah. It was it was very easy for me to ride a ride Bronx, you know, correctly. So I'm not saying it was natural, that was a natural, but I have not been on 20 cracked sources in my entire career. Oh, seriously? So it was when I ended up You were just doing it. I was just doing it. Yeah, it was I got a good saddle and some spheres and when it comes easy, you know, you like to do it.

SPEAKER_04 7:39

Yeah. And so you felt like that really set you up for success. Obviously, your saddle and the good horses.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Having good equipment and good you know, I had some good people that I was around all the time. I always always tried to go with somebody that was better than me, or you know, I always went with older guys. So I got a lot of maybe not coaching, but you know, I could I could see what they were doing right. So that's what I did. So Yes.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

Yes. Anybody come to mine in particular that that you like to travel with?

SPEAKER_01 8:15

I wrote I traveled in Male Island a lot when I was first couple of years, and he was a two times world champion. So he he was very instrumental on and it was always it was like uh once you get it to kind of at that level, it's like okay, I gotta not only beat the field, but I gotta beat my travel partner.

SPEAKER_05 8:41

Travel partner.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

Bragging rights or whatever. So, you know, it's kinda like, okay, if I make a better ride than you, you gotta buy coffee, or you know, stuff like that. That makes you step up every time.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Yes, yes, you're rising to the occasion. It's competition amongst the call in in amongst the competition.

SPEAKER_04 9:02

Uh I read about Mount Island when I was doing your research, and there's a point system that um everything cowboy, have you looked at this? So they so they rank the top 10 Canadian Bronck writers of all time. And he he he did edge you out a few by a couple of points, but you know who you are ahead of by 40 points? And I kind of was like, I thought that he was like their god. Uh Zeke Thurston, you're still ahead of him.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Well, Zeke's not dangerous.

SPEAKER_04 9:35

I'm just saying, you're still right now.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Well, one of the great broadcasts that I've witnessed in the last 50 some years, is I agree.

SPEAKER_04 9:48

He is fantastic. But I'm just I'm trying to give you my I'm not just here, just you know, I'm just blowing up your head here, Mel. I'm just saying.

unknown 9:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

Abby, I don't I don't want to be a pain, but just move the phone closer to you two, just because it's a little windy so that we can make sure we still hear you good, but I just want it to be perfect the whole time. Might not be able to see you guys as good, but at least we could hear you good. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 10:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

So speaking of all the Canadian rodeos and American rodeos, and you did everything, what is your favorite rodeo of all time? Besides the finals.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Uh I have two. Uh Calgary, obviously, and Pendleton. I think of the two uh guest rodeos all time. Calgary, uh because of what it is, and then Pendleton because it's a serious cowboy rodeo. If you're not a cowboy, don't know what Pendleton is.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

And you still you entered Pendleton last year, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:48

Yes. Yep. Almost made the show route, actually.

SPEAKER_04 10:52

Yeah, yes, absolutely. Um I know how many I know you won Calgary, your rookie year. Did you win it?

SPEAKER_01 11:02

I only won it one time. Okay. I rode uh the top four write-off like four or five other times, one second twice, uh, but only actually won it one time, and that was before they gave the big money.

SPEAKER_04 11:15

Oh, it was? I thought they'd are always I mean, for the time they always did it. Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

So it was just two and a show around the year when I won it.

SPEAKER_02 11:26

Okay. What did it pay then?

SPEAKER_01 11:29

You know, I think I won like 4,500, uh, which doesn't sound like a lot today's money. But it was. But in 1974, that was a lot of money. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 11:42

Did it used to count for Canada and US world standings?

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Always did. It always did until they kind of changed the full.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Yeah, no, it was it's it's definitely a great rodeo, and and they've kind of got away from well, it's it's more of an invitational event now, and it's still a great rodeo, but back in those days everybody could go and enter, and uh, you know, it was just a big deal.

SPEAKER_05 12:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

And I know you're Alberta, you know, right, born and raised in Alberta.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

So do you prefer, like, if you had to pick, would you rodeo in Canada or would you rodeo in America? Like if you had to go one year and just do one or the other, what would you pick?

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Well, I would have to pick uh the US because they have more road more big rodeos.

SPEAKER_02 12:36

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

But now Canada has, you know, 30 or 40, you know, I would what I would call quality big events. Uh but it would be hard to make a a living up there and just for the fact that the only road the only rodeos for like three months out of the year when it's summertime, because the rest of the time it's winter. True.

SPEAKER_02 12:57

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

I don't like being cold.

SPEAKER_04 12:59

No, none of us do.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Absolutely, no. You better like being wet if you're gonna rodeo in Canada in June.

SPEAKER_04 13:06

Oh goodness.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Yeah, I watched, I mean, I've been watching Binocan, Wayne Right, yeah. I mean, typical June weather, rain, mud, rain, mud. But people, they just it it's so such a normal that nobody thinks nothing about it. It's just like that's the way it is. So if you don't like it, don't go.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

Yeah. Exactly. That's for sure.

SPEAKER_04 13:37

When when we had Jake Stanley on, we were talking about all of the expenses and everything, and he said, Well, Mal Conlin made a living for 20 years with just a Bronx saddle and traveling around, didn't have all these extra expenses, and and he's like, Well, that's not his fault, but anyway, it was a whole different conversation. But did that ever play in? I mean, you made the Canadian finals how many times in the team roping? Three. So did you uh try to make the finals, the NFR in the team roping ever?

SPEAKER_01 14:05

Or uh not really. I I I wish I would have probably you know, twenty years ago, had a really good horse and we won quite a bit. You know, I think I ended up in the top twenty-five. Okay. Uh so I think if I'd already gone at it, maybe right guy, uh, I'd have had a chance. But no, I never I was in business at the I was trying to team rope and running business at the same time and and I knew where my bread was buttered. Yes. So it wasn't rope for fake.

SPEAKER_03 14:43

Speaking of your business, how did you you transition from riding Bronx to a paid store in Arizona? What that on? Like, how did you get into that business?

SPEAKER_01 14:54

Well, it it's kind of by accident. I moved to Arizona uh actually when my boy uh was gonna start first grade. Okay. And I knew I had to get out of Canada because well, just politics and I and if I said, well, I I don't like being cold, so I'm gonna go to Arizona and and then uh at least if I have to if I just have to dig a ditch, the ground will froze. So I went down there and and uh just kind of was you know really looking for something to kind of get into. Uh there was this little feed store right down the street from where I lived, and the guy ahead and went kind of was going broke. He was like two weeks away from foreclosure, and and I thought, you know what, I think I could turn this around. Yeah. Probably make it work. I I kind of knew uh most of the people in the agricultural that would be my customers. I had a pretty good relationship with most everybody, uh whether they were riding horses, mostly it was equine. So at least I I kind of knew a little bit about it. And and so I I ended up making a deal with this guy, bogged out, and then the smartest thing I did was I went down the street and I hired uh this gal manager at another street store down the street a couple miles. And her and I were friends, and I s her name was Pabby and it was really the best thing I was doing. She knew the ins and outs of all this stuff of of you know where to buy, what to buy, when to buy it. And so then I learned uh didn't make too many mistakes, so we and got got the clientele back and got our customer base, and then we really went to town. Uh had that one store for about 10 or 12 years, went to Cape Creek, bought another store, same deal, guy was looked at a very good job, went up there, and it really cranked up. And then uh a few years later, I went and bought the racetrack store, Turf Paradise, uh got 1500 head horses there for eight months a year, and and we were the major uh session supplier there and ran that for about eight or nine years. So I was in the business for about thirty thirty years, roughly.

SPEAKER_04 17:36

So, what do you feel like what would you tell a younger like a cowboy that is starting to look down the line of retirement? What do you feel like that you did really correct to be able to be like, I have to make this transition?

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Well, I kind of I was uh I made the files 16 times you know, consecutively, which was quite a lot. I was 34 the last time I made the files, and I probably had another you know two or three years left, maybe who knows. So, but you you kind of see the writing at the end of the wall. I mean, sooner or later, uh uh the music stops.

SPEAKER_04 18:21

Well, that's what I was gonna ask you. Do you feel like it was your last one when you went? Oh, I I didn't really.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

I just narrowly missed it uh the next year, and then I thought, okay, how what do I do when I don't make the files? Okay, because then you okay, I gotta go, I gotta get a job. Oh my god. Yes. And if you got it, and I thought to myself, well, if I have to get a job, I kind of need to be the boss. Because I've I've been in the boss a long time, but up to that point, and not real good at taking orders, but but I understood that I when you don't know what you're doing for sure, you hire quality people that know more than you do, and then you take your advice.

SPEAKER_05 19:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

And then away you go. So that's what worked for for me. And for the next young guy, I mean, wow, these these guys nowadays can make so much money that they've gotta have a lot of money at the end if they get a long, if they get a long career. You know, like or somewhere like that. I mean, Ellie's won a couple million or three million.

SPEAKER_05 19:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

So he's gotta have quite a bit of that put in a a good spot that's gonna make it fun.

SPEAKER_03 19:42

Speaking of that, like from the first your first NFR qualification or your Canadian finals qualification, same thing, to your to your last. What did you see change in that rodeo? And then change like how has it changed now, in your opinion?

SPEAKER_01 20:01

So the first year I went to the files, the GoRounds paid $762 to win first. Yeah. Yeah. So and then the last time I went, they paid, I think, eleven thousand. So that's how much it is improved. $74 to $89. And now from then till now, I mean the rounds paid $37,000.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

So wow. I mean, what uh what a what an increase.

unknown 20:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

And it's you know, they're gonna go up I think it's ten percent every year for the next year. Yeah, so uh I mean at the end of the yeah, ten years they're gonna pay forty five or fifty thousand to win a go round.

SPEAKER_05 20:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

So anytime you can go like these guys are winning at the finals now, if they have a good finals, are winning uh shit two hundred and fifty thousand. And that's not even the high the the the high money winners. That's just the average guys are winning. Then you have a terrible finals, you win 75,000.

SPEAKER_05 21:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

And yeah. It's like, wow, that's that's that's life-changing money. You can go ahead and and buy something that'll make you some money with with that. Right. No, so it's it's hard, you know. When we when I went to finals the first year, uh one like fifteen hundred. One around placed in two other rounds, I think. So that was still a lot of money.

SPEAKER_02 21:42

Yes, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

I'm eighteen years old. I turned nineteen during that first files. Uh didn't have no responsibilities other than myself. And so uh I have plenty of money to get to Denver and get through. Started into that next winner and then away you go again. So it's not a yeah uh nobody really bankrolled even the world champions in that day for winning twenty thousand.

SPEAKER_04 22:10

So I mean again with the time that was still the difference in the I was thinking on along these lines, especially because you were still competing and I you've been competitive your whole life. You've seen all sorts of changes, not just money changes, but even from the broadcasting, the rodeo formats, these other tournament style rodeos coming in. What do you think is the best thing besides the money?

SPEAKER_01 22:42

The best thing is the stock situation. Okay. In the right hand there's so much more quality livestock today than it was 40 years ago. Uh I mean back of at least probably half the horses that I got on at the National Finals would be re-rides today. I mean, literally, you know, you'd be in the low sixties uh at the best biggest rodeo in the year. And they couldn't give hardly any re-rides because there was nothing better.

SPEAKER_05 23:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

So I mean it was just it's just pitiful when I look back at at some of the the stock that they actually took to the finals, and not only, you know, in the 70s, I'm talking about in the like when I watch a performance there, I see twelve out of fifteen horses that you could probably win the goal round on. You know, and and everyone can place. You couldn't slide in there for a fifth that pays six thousand dollars.

SPEAKER_05 23:49

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

Yeah. Uh so today, like the guys in the top twenty-five or top twenty, I don't know, they all get on a group chat and they get to pick the bucking bulls and the horses, and they talk about that. Is that how you guys did it back then? Or they just every stock contractor brought what they had?

SPEAKER_01 24:06

No, we got it, we got to pick 'em. Well, we didn't have a very good selection to pick from.

SPEAKER_03 24:13

I was gonna say, how did that stock change from then to now?

SPEAKER_01 24:18

The breeding programs have just tremendously helped business, and I think Diagra Stampede was uh initially the first one that really started that and was pretty successful at it. So then all these contractors started thinking a little they got to be forward thinkers, and they go, uh, we gotta, you know, we're in this business for for a lifetime, so we gotta start thinking about raising our own stock. Because the old days, the only way they would get a new bucket horse is if some, you know, there was a rodeo down and some rancher got bucked off his horse last week and and he was didn't want to get back on him and they would bring him to town and and they would try him, and you know, and and a lot of them bucked. But they weren't red bucked like the horse and bulls are today.

SPEAKER_04 25:09

Yeah. What do you think that really started? I mean, obviously I agree with you with Calgary, but I mean that really didn't start to change probably until the nine mid-nineties.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

Yeah, mid-nineties, probably about twenty, twenty-five years ago, they started reading and and every contractor had a breeding program now. Yeah. And they trade studs back and forth amongst themselves to their credit. Because uh sometimes it takes four or five years to see you're on the wrong track. You know, I mean, if you Oh, we all, yes. If you've got a stud that's no good, and you you know keep reading him, and all of a sudden, wow, his colts are now three and four years old and we're bucking them the first time and they don't have a jump in them. It's like, oh my god, they put there went five years down and drained. But they've found out what works, and I give them all the credit in the world that they're doing it. Because that means always be good buccano.

SPEAKER_04 26:09

Yes, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Yeah, it goes at ten times full in the bull riding because every back, you know, just look at the you know the how many bull contractors there is.

SPEAKER_05 26:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Uh there's it's uh, you know, somebody'll raise one in the backyard and he will be unrideable.

SPEAKER_02 26:29

Absolutely, and then they can sell them and then that person can breed them. But yeah, we run into that with our barrel horses shit they get to their five-year-old year, and we're like, you know, this son of a buck is slow.

SPEAKER_04 26:38

Yeah, it turns out we really messed up. Luckily, we have five D's also, but we can be that fighting. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 26:46

We can still win money on a slow one. Yeah. So that's you know not much, but a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 26:53

For the barrel racing credit, you know, you can have a $300,000 horse and go win $180 and totally mess.

SPEAKER_04 27:03

It don't make any sense, but you know everybody's yeah, have you done any barrel racers' Facebook pages lately? Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:16

I was gonna go back to your rodeo career a little bit. Like, did you have any uh like nemesis? Like that they maybe they don't know that you were their nemesis, or maybe they do and you still don't like each other, or one that you could tell me, it's just between us. I don't know. And the rest of the podcast?

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Horses or people?

SPEAKER_02 27:35

No, people.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Oh no. Oh come on. So you got horses that are yeah, what about okay then horse, horse. That'll be fine. Everybody worked it out in the old days. Like if you didn't like somebody and you got crossways with them at the beer ten, you just went around the corner and and and then they after you were done, you came back and had a beer and everything was good. The good old days. Good old days. There was no uh they couldn't beat you up on the keyboard in them days like they can now as social media. Uh so and thankfully, I think that I lived in Rodeo Dave for the best uh generation. No smartphones, no uh no telephones, nobody taking a picture of you every time you turn around. Yes. Um I mean, so I I I really enjoyed that, I think, more than I would have today.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

Yeah, I think that's go ahead. I was just gonna say that the I will say like a lot of the camaraderie is still there, especially with the Bronx Riders and the Bull Riders. I and the Barback Riders too, like they still have a ton of, you know, maybe there's one or two that aren't friends, but for the most part, I still feel like it's a pretty awesome way to live and make your friends, you know. Yeah. They're all feel pretty great to each other.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

When you're you know, you're actually you you're competing against everybody else, but you're really competing against the the draw and the judges have all you know, they have all the control, obviously. So, you know, you can't really um a lot of times you don't agree with what they're write down, but hopefully they're putting it down at what with what they think.

SPEAKER_05 29:26

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

It's never changed. Like everybody cuts the judges 50 years ago and they still do. So no nobody's gonna agree with with everything that they they put down, but you have to live with it.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

And they do have a tough in their defense they have a tough job, but you know, sometimes they could do better.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

I'm just Well we already have one right now. Absolutely could do better. I mean, I'm I'm the biggest uh couch recliner judge in the world nowadays. Cowboy channel has you know brought all that to light because you know you can see their mistakes, they stick out like four thumbs.

SPEAKER_03 30:11

And unfortunately, you know And then they get shared on Facebook.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Well, yeah, I mean that's social media. No, they write it down, they say it one time, they gotta put it down what they thought.

SPEAKER_05 30:24

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

It's a pretty blatant one way or the other. Then the Calvo channel showed back four or five times in slow motion to just make it look root stinked. Yes. Yeah, yeah. To be honest with you, I I don't know why anybody does it. I agree with you. I don't think they get paid very much. I don't even know what they make nowadays.

SPEAKER_04 30:45

It's I was actually visiting with a judge about this. It was considerably less than what I thought that they were getting as far as what they have to deal with.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

Like to me, you know, why don't you just pick up beer cans out of the ditch on the way to the road bill and and you make video pop money as going out there and have everybody mad at you? You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:05

It doesn't make any sense. It is a little bit of a thankless shop. I will definitely say that. Oh, sure. You know that uh Melvin here was five times the fan favorite at the NFR. I did actually see that.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

What do you have to do to get that award, Mel? Yeah, is that like the best dress in the girl racing or just love that he's in the scene?

SPEAKER_04 31:30

Can you imagine? Um, okay, so along with that, I know what you just said about the best era, and I do definitely agree with you on that for sure. I mean, you had to pull over, call to you know, to enter, you had to figure out your scheduling on paper. I mean, you worked at it.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

People don't understand like how easy it is to well, it used to be easy when they had pro com. Now they make you do it online with and for my generation, it's not easy to do that kind of stuff, okay.

SPEAKER_04 32:02

You can hire Raimi. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

But but you know, you used to have to pull over to a payphone, and then and then you would be calling to the and the rodeo secretary would be taking the entries right at that particular rodeo. So you'd be calling like I know one year at El Paso, Texas, there was 20 of us on 20 different payphones, and nine of us got hit. We got a list of guys to interview. Oh, really? And we never got inter because I'm sure the secretary in that days would uh not naming any names, but they would when they were had enough, they would just take the phone off the hook. Yeah, they were like, and it would just ring busy. And that I mean it was there was everything modernized is for the good. And it certainly took that element out of control. We could always get in here now, don't have to call and a lot of things like that.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

It is nice. Yeah. My Uncle D told me a story because he watched me pull up a trades list like a couple years ago, and he's like, What the heck? That was so easy. He's like, we used to have to write down the secretary, would have to read us everybody's name and number from each day in the draw, and then we would have to stay and keep calling them, and now it's like as simple as it could be. I mean, still people won't trade you, but at least you can get a hold of them easier.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:25

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

But uh funny because uh as we're doing this podcast, I entered our local rodeo here in Joseph, and I had two guys call me and want to trade. Yeah. Hey, I got the performance I wanted. That's why I entered for that day. So I'm not gonna Exactly. One of them. So uh, but I mean that everybody understands if, you know, hey, if you don't want to take, you don't want to take.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

Exactly. I don't think it hurts to ask, but if you don't, if you go if you entered for a certain reason, then there's no harm in keeping what you got. I yeah, I get that for sure.

SPEAKER_04 34:11

What do you think is the worst change that you've witnessed in rodeo?

SPEAKER_01 34:17

The worst.

SPEAKER_04 34:18

Yeah, like it was not actually for the good. Or is caught maybe down the road you feel it could be causing.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

Well, I don't know. Everything's been good so far the last 50 years. The money is so much better. Uh the committees, uh, with the exception of a few. This being one of them. I don't want to name any dates, but uh We all know. Just saying for the most part, these committees are coming up with a lot more prize money. And and as a contestant, the first thing you look at in the rodeo listings is how much money do they have? And then you go where the money gets because there's only so many days in the league. And uh pretty much any of the any weeks in summertime, there's 30, 40 rodeos going on. Yes, and you're gonna make five or six of the So you go that's a where you can win the most amount of money for the least amount of gets.

SPEAKER_04 35:19

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:21

And it's played straight to the auto wheels, you know. I mean, it's RV whatever it takes to get to the biggest.

SPEAKER_02 35:27

Yeah. Um I don't want to cut anybody off, but I don't know. What was your favorite year at the NFR, your best NFR that you had?

SPEAKER_01 35:40

You know the the one uh one year I think it was maybe seventy-eight, I placed in seven go-rounds. Uh and it came within five points in the world's championship. So I guess that would that would that would have been my best uh yeah, I placed it on the most difficult course.

SPEAKER_02 36:01

Yeah. Seven's a lot.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

Yeah, seven. Yeah, if I had to cut ahead, a couple of debts and air on the wall. It would have worked out. It would have worked out, I think.

SPEAKER_02 36:13

I'm curious, so I because I I don't remember, but so every NFR you made was in Vegas.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

No, I went to Oklahoma City uh 11 times.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

Okay, that's what I thought. It was an oak a post from because my anyway, my grandpa helped get it moved to Vegas, and so I was wondering what was Vegas like when you first got to Vegas, like with the casinos and where you guys stayed and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

It was like, wow.

SPEAKER_02 36:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:45

They don't turn out the lights here. There's no such thing as last doll. Or not a lot has changed. After the rodeo, they rolled up the streets. Like you couldn't even get a ham sandwich, let alone a cold beer, anywhere after 11 o'clock. So and so I went to they had it down at the old Coliseum, uh, let me see, 74, 75, about five years, first five years I went. And then they moved it downtown to the Marriott. Uh a little bigger building, little, you know, nicer uh facility. Uh and uh, you know, the first few years that they had it that I went in Oklahoma City, in the old building, they had nothing on the outside of the building. You just rode down the tunnel. I mean, you're out in the parking lot, wide open space, and it was so cold there a lot of times. I mean I mean they'd have your grand entry horses tied out there on a picket line, and you're supposed to run out there and get on and they would bring every flea bid and thing they could find within 500 miles for the riding event guys to ride in the grand entry and and guys getting bucked off, runaways in the park a lot. I mean it was it was uh an event within an event every night. Yeah. So that was one of the things.

SPEAKER_02 38:17

Uh I do love that some things never change that way. They're still on their horse and they get on, and you know the you know the Roughstock guys that have never ridden a horse, and it's like that grand entry, it's just like a liability, I feel like, waiting to happen.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Well, I think I actually figured out right off the bat, after about the second year of me on that BS, I whoever was picking up at the finals that year, their horses would be down underneath in a warmer climate. Yeah. And I would get mounted on a pickup horse. Governor. In a couple years I rode Rick Stokes healing horse because he'd have him warmed up and and he didn't he didn't have to ride in the Grand Entry then because that was before they had 15 and 15. They that was when they couldn't be invited. So if you find a team rover that wasn't didn't have to ride in the Grand Entry, he could ride one of their horses.

SPEAKER_04 39:13

Oh, because he was invited? Right. Oh, oh that's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

There was there was ways to get around that being cold up there. Yeah. But first year, you know, as an 18-year-old kid, I was so excited to just to get there. Yes. Uh I would have rode anything I could anything with air on and it. I thought but then you became a veteran, and then you got what you figure out, okay, there's a better way to do this. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 39:47

So the last few years at Oklahoma City, they was the fan base still large there? Okay, and so that was enough to be like, hey, we're really getting a following.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

No, they they were they were selling it out. Okay. And then they made the deal to go to Vegas uh in 84. Did people block at that? A lot of people did because you know how rodeo is kind of traditional. Yes. So uh we've been doing it this way all you know, even though it's the wrong way, we're st we're like to keep doing it that way. Yes, yeah. So but it was they made the move to go to Vegas. Smartest thing, the best thing that ever happened in the rodeo business, as far as I'm gonna was that move. 100% the prize money doubled immediately from one year to the next. Oh, it did as soon as it went like 4,400 to 8,800.

SPEAKER_04 40:41

Oh, okay. Wow, okay.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

So right there, like wow, you get the bag.

SPEAKER_05 40:49

Yeah.

unknown 40:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

And every every vent got a whole different hotel suites. We had our own suite at the and and the lights never go off.

SPEAKER_04 41:01

It was you were living, you were rock stars though.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

Sorry. And uh it took a minute to get to kind of get yourself under control at that time, because uh if you're waiting for the lights to flicker and call last call, you ain't it ain't happening.

SPEAKER_04 41:19

We still struggle with that sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 41:21

I mean uh first year dude. My birthday was always during the file, so we had a big birthday party at Sokolm City. Well, we get to Vegas and wow, my birthday. And my my good friend uh Sarry Robinson, Jeff Rokus, Canada. Uh we proceed to go downtown. Or we were in well, you're always in downtown. Yeah. We're out there for quite a you know, till the next morning. And then it was always, oh shit, the sun's coming up. Okay, we should maybe have a nap. Yeah, maybe we're not ready, and and luckily uh won second that night, so it was the next night.

SPEAKER_02 42:12

That worked, it paid off.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

Yeah, it was it could have sure went could have gone the other way though.

SPEAKER_04 42:16

Did you in any of those uh nightly outings did did you encounter anybody? I uh there were stories about um Wayland Jennings coming and uh not that no, not that I can remember.

SPEAKER_01 42:30

No, I was I would I was in the wrong circles, I think. I just wasn't traveling in most circles.

SPEAKER_04 42:35

You you didn't quite have that. That was probably an okay thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:41

I do have uh one more question, kind of switching gears. Why did you not move back to Alberta in the summer times? And you chose joke. Well uh Scoth country?

SPEAKER_01 42:54

Yeah, you know literally the world in the summertime. Uh don't like being cold and wet. Uh I still have family and they live in Alberta. Uh love them dearly, but I just soon they came to visit me down here.

SPEAKER_02 43:11

Linda Joseph. I know.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

Well, yeah, Megan, you know, because you live here. You're used to live here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:18

So I'm biased, and I'll admit I've also been to Alberta. And I like Alberta too.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

Well, you know, I've I'm don't get me wrong, I I I do love Alberta, Saskatchewan, and British Columbia, there's parts of it, Manitoba, that are just beautiful. Uh and if you can figure out which three days a year they're gonna be nice, it's a great place to be. But there's there's just a lot. If you can go up there in July and August, uh pretty good chance you're gonna really enjoy it if the mosquitoes don't eat you to death.

SPEAKER_02 43:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

But uh you know if you go up there in June, you're gonna get wet.

SPEAKER_04 43:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 43:58

Yeah, yeah. We had about

SPEAKER_01 44:00

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 44:01

No, you're good. I was just saying we've been learning that the last few days watching Pinoca. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 44:07

I've lived that uh right there in Pinoca and been as wet as you could possibly be. And and always had always had uh pretty good luck there. Won the rock ride in there a couple times, won the T-Rope in there one year. Uh so it was really one of my favorite rodeos, and probably if I could go and compete at one again, uh probably would pick Pinocchio.

SPEAKER_03 44:40

Well, I talked to him on my way to the junior rodeo the other day as I was stealing a vest and helmet for my kid because you know he told me I couldn't wear a football helmet, or my kid couldn't wear a football helmet in the bull riding.

SPEAKER_02 44:51

I was like, she shouldn't know that, but go on. I didn't know the big sex. You know what?

SPEAKER_03 44:57

I thought we were doing something right. We were not, Jordan informed me. But we I'm I'm in there and I'm talking to him, and he's like, Man, I went for a run. I put on buck spray. He said, I came back and I had mosquitoes, like dead mosquitoes, just covering my legs. And and he's telling me all these things, and I'm like, Jordan, this doesn't sound like I'm like, do you want to move to Weezer, Idaho?

SPEAKER_02 45:19

Or are you talking about he's like, the mosquitoes are like this big, yeah, or bigger? He's like, they're gonna back me off.

SPEAKER_01 45:26

I'm like, yeah, I not uh wasn't exaggerating very much.

SPEAKER_02 45:32

Yeah, no. So sorry, go ahead, Abby.

SPEAKER_04 45:36

Uh no, I just I had two other questions, but I'm I'm good. But I what do you think? Do you think the transition, because we see a lot of people, and I get it now that I've had like life changes. Do you feel like I feel like you were not lucky, but it was because you're such a great competitor. But so when you transition from the bronch riding, you're like, okay, now I'm done with the bronch riding, you're still going in the team roping, you're still in the tripping and the team roping now. But did you have that like emotional lull when you're like, I'm really not Mel Coleman, the Bronx rider now?

SPEAKER_01 46:11

No, not not really, because when I got on my last bronch. And you knew it was your life. I knew it was my life. Okay. So when I got like, you know what? I think that's I think I'm good. Like not many people can compete as long as I did and feel as good as I do today.

SPEAKER_04 46:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

I am pretty pretty uh I came through it pretty much unscathed. Like I can I don't have any I don't get up boring and limp around or shake it up. You know, so I I think I quit absolutely right time for me.

SPEAKER_02 46:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:55

Where was the last program you ever got on and what horse was that?

SPEAKER_01 46:59

The ranks one?

SPEAKER_02 47:01

The last one.

SPEAKER_01 47:02

Oh, I don't even you know what? I tell you what, it was at the circuit finals in in uh Turquoise Circuit Finals. And I remember I think I got on the first one. He wasn't very good, and I won the second go-round, and then the third go-round, I think the horse fell. And and I thought, you know, I got away, no problem. And then I thought, you know what? And I had the absolute worst one to draw to dance. And I thought, you know what? I think I'm just good. So I just called it right there. Went home, never went, never got on another one. And uh don't there was times I thought, man, actually I should probably get on at least one more or two, or I see a real nice horse and I thought, man, and that was the most fun about riding Bronx was the the better they the harder they buck, the better they were to ride.

unknown 48:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:09

The little old hoppers that hop off across there and shoot your grandmother could ride 'em, but if you could ride a dirty rank bucking sum again, you get off, you think, wow, that was really good.

SPEAKER_02 48:23

So what was the rankest one then that you ever got on?

SPEAKER_01 48:28

You know, I think probably the rankest one that I got on was always called King's Way of Franklin's. He was uh Bucking Horse of the Year in both the bare back riding and the Bronck riding back in the late 80s, mid eighties. Uh he turned me a chili walk me at the Canadian finals. Uh uh and I was like, wow, what what happened? That escalated quite. I was a little more prepared when I nodded my head than that. But so and I think the one thing that I that let me ride for as long as I did and come through it without any aches, too many aches and pains, is I never got bucked off very often. A couple times a year, maybe at the most. Uh and usually that was used by a trick of some sort. Uh but that Kingsway bucked my ass off. There was no there was no and that was that. There was no debating that one. So uh I was a knife at a gunfight right there. That thing but you know, if sure enjoyed riding good bronx. Uh that was the the fun about bronch riding was uh it it it was it's so easy once you learn how to do it properly that like you can ride one in a paper suit and never tear it. You know, it's just it's all about timing and and uh it's not a battle of strengths uh because you look at the guys the guys that are riding now, most of them don't weigh about fifty. That is true. Uh you know, a 14 out of five horse bucket, so it's all about it's all timing.

SPEAKER_02 50:15

I yeah, there's not nothing a lot prettier than watching like a really, really good Bronk ride, honestly. Yes. Um I I have one more question. What buckle do you have on? And what's your favorite buckle you've ever won?

SPEAKER_01 50:30

Um I've got a uh go-round buckle from I think it's the 87 national finals that I've wore. It's kind of my just go-to. That's what I wear all every day of the year. And I and I've got uh an all-around championship buckle for Canada that that I it's my kind of my dress buckle, I would guess. But uh I don't know. It's you always wish you would have won. I never won Salinas, I would have I wished I could have won that one. Uh but most of all the other major rodeos I've won. So but a lot of times they don't they didn't give much in them days too, besides they didn't, you know, I won Denver, I won Fort Worth twice, uh Ron Houston, uh Calgary, Denton, dah da, right down the line, Cheyenne. Uh so you've hard to pick out one favor, one is whatever you like the best, I guess.

unknown 51:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:30

That's quite the list of uh accolades or rodeos that you've won, I'll say that. But you it's just pretty awesome. And how many times did you win Calgary? Just because did you say twice?

SPEAKER_01 51:41

One time. Oh, it's just they're not you don't win.

SPEAKER_02 51:45

No, heck no, that's why I said that.

unknown 51:47

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 51:49

I won uh one or once and I rode for the champion the top four deal there, like probably six other times, uh, one second twice. Thought I could have won it either one of those years.

SPEAKER_05 52:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:03

Uh had I I just didn't get it done one second by half a point one time, and I was like, I would have l rather lost it by ten points than a half. Yes. Yes. That's a little close.

SPEAKER_04 52:16

How about the Canadian Hall of Hall of Fame? How I mean that was just tell me about that. You went. They have your saddle. Well that was gonna have to be kind of like rough part that'd be rough to give me.

SPEAKER_01 52:37

And they had uh everything shut down. I had plans to go and uh shoot, every airport was closed.

SPEAKER_04 52:46

Oh no, I didn't realize that.

SPEAKER_01 52:48

Yeah, you couldn't fly anywhere. Okay. I you know I thought I should have just they kept saying, well, we're gonna open it up, we're gonna open it. Well, by the time they decided they weren't gonna open up, uh, was later in September, right after it happened. So uh how didn't get to go?

SPEAKER_04 53:05

Oh geez. Gee, I asked that question and I didn't even know that answer. Anyway, well, that's still cool. Yeah, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 53:17

Now you just get up every morning and try not let the old man in.

SPEAKER_04 53:21

Oh my gosh, you stop.

SPEAKER_02 53:22

I feel like you do a pretty good job of that. I think so too.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

That's same bronx out of it.

SPEAKER_04 53:29

Oh, did you ride the same Bronx audio your whole career?

SPEAKER_01 53:32

Uh all but the last two years. And I broke the tree and then I and I got another Severe that was identical to I or almost identical, I would say, to the one that I had. So I wrote a Sevier my whole life.

SPEAKER_04 53:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 53:49

So yeah, that was a great year over the same the new one, did the new one feel the same as the old one?

SPEAKER_01 53:55

Uh it was pretty much. It wasn't a it wasn't a rough out. I wrote a rough out, uh, because I like that velcro feeling. Yeah, yeah. Me too. The one I got uh at the end was uh it had been rode quite a bit. It was a smooth, smooth side. So it always felt a little slippery to me, but uh I mentioned to be able to stay in it, so it was good.

SPEAKER_04 54:21

Anything that you would tell uh someone getting into the Bronck riding now that you think is a game changer?

SPEAKER_01 54:27

Well, I think the the the biggest thing about learning nowadays is you have to go to the right uh right kind of a somebody that can teach you with the right kind of horse.

SPEAKER_04 54:39

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:46

And let you get the feel of riding one before you get the feel of getting Yeah, just getting flat down. A lot of people, even schools, they have people break over and say that they got no idea what they got. Oh yeah. And to be honest with you, when I learned we had a team that we drove in the winter game. Uh and I learned to rise on one of the on one of the sports that we drove. Oh, really? And he was quiet. And I would just get on him and I would just put the back fence. He was just in a corral and everything, she's and uh put the back fence back there and flank, tag to death, and I'd spring in the valley and he would just hop around there, not do a lot, and if I got in trouble, I'd already whoa, stop. Yeah, get back in the saddle and I'd start over. Yeah, and it was controlled, yeah. Right. So pretty soon uh I could learn how to ride, and I never learned how to get bucked off. I mean it just didn't happen. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh I mean I I have got bucked off a few times in my life, but not very many.

SPEAKER_04 55:56

But you had the confidence to learn how to do it.

SPEAKER_01 55:59

As soon as you learn how to you learn how to ride and you have timing, like I mean it's just a matter of I gotta turn upside down. Take like it all.

SPEAKER_04 56:09

When we were in college, Brian showed up, Butch sent Brian had his own practice horses, and I I think the one came from Calbury, his name was Flipper. I wanted on him so bad, and he would never let me on that horse. But he did what you're saying is the same thing, even he would obviously came out of the shoot, but I mean literally just came out and did the same thing. Yeah, opt around.

SPEAKER_01 56:29

Yeah, and so enough to where you gotta get the time down. Yeah, you learn how to move your feet. Yeah, and spur a horse out, move your feet. It's pretty automatic.

SPEAKER_04 56:42

I'm pretty sure I could have done it. Yeah. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:47

Oh, I wanted so bad. He would never let me on. Yeah, I could make fun of because anytime they go to start bucking, I'm stepping off.

SPEAKER_02 56:55

Me too.

SPEAKER_01 56:56

I've got bucked off harder, way harder. Saddle horse. Off a rope horse or a horse's, you know, surprise me than I ever did in the crawl cut.

SPEAKER_02 57:07

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_01 57:08

Uh I'm telling you what, if you if you know they're gonna buck and you get a nightlatch, you can ride a pretty good one in a rope saddle. I mean, I especially in little barrel set.

SPEAKER_04 57:18

Yeah, you know, barrel saps are helpful. Yeah. I still just jump off.

SPEAKER_03 57:22

The last time one bucked with me, Mel, I literally he goes, I cinched him up, stepped on him, he goes to like buck. Like, I didn't even get my foot in the stirrup. I swing on, don't get my right foot in the stirrup. He goes to buck and he just like rears straight up.

SPEAKER_02 57:41

I just swung off, landed on my feet, called it good. I was like, I don't want any part of that.

SPEAKER_04 57:46

No, you probably kicked him in the belly.

SPEAKER_02 57:49

I mean, yeah, actually.

SPEAKER_04 57:52

Yeah, yeah, we know the truth.

SPEAKER_02 57:55

So well now I'm down here at Silver State, and I got a bunch of kids running around, you know. So I'm talking to them, I'm going through your stats, I'm telling them all your accomplishments, and I didn't say your name, I just told you. Oh Megan, we lost you.

SPEAKER_04 58:15

Oh, easy. You're starting to come back.

SPEAKER_03 58:18

Yeah. Can you hear me now? There. Yep, there we go. So I'm I'm telling them all your stats. I'm like hyping you up basically, telling them everything, and they're like, and and they're they ask me the first question they ask me, they go, is this a real person? I said, Yes. And they go, you know him? I'm like, well, yeah. They're like, okay, well, can we get lessons? I'm like, boys.

SPEAKER_02 58:45

Well, my response, my response when I told Jordan, I'm like, yeah, we have Mel on the podcast, and he's like, Mel? And I said, Mel Coleman, and he said, How did you get that to happen? I'm like, well, actually, Abby, and Jordan just loves to give Abby shit. And he's like, No, I don't think that's what Yeah. Yeah. Don't worry. We're we're glad to have you. That's what we're saying. It's pretty bad on it. Yeah, it's you still gonna like little J High boys enamored. Yeah. Yes, yes. Well what were you gonna say, Mo? It's been what?

SPEAKER_01 59:21

I say it's just been a few years since I've been interviewed to this extent and done anything. So I mean, you're kind of out of sight, out of mind. You know, it's been thirty years since I've done, you know, all the stuff that I did. So it's it's kind of cool.

SPEAKER_04 59:40

Oh, you're still doing stuff.

SPEAKER_02 59:42

Yeah, yeah, it's really easy to find. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:47

Yes. You know, I like I like to try and win. I've I've uh I I hate losing, so if I'm entered somewhere, I'm gonna do my best.

SPEAKER_02 59:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 59:56

We love that.

SPEAKER_02 59:57

I think that's something we can all agree on that we we don't do very good at losing. No.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:02

No. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:04

Well, I don't it's uh I don't have well when we get to Joseph, we might have to reconvene this when we're all together, when we all get to the county. But until then, we'll let you guys enjoy a enjoy a beverage.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:15

We're in our backyard right now, and I'm just about to crack out my first uh adult beverage of the day.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:21

So I'll crack out my second one.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:26

I'm going to uh you guys are welcome here anytime.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:30

Yes. Well fans of coming on, Mel. Thank you so much, guys. We'll talk to you soon. All right, thank you. Bye.