17: Why Women Still Feel the Need to Prove Themselves (and How to Stop)

Tania sits down with Dana Hunter Fradella for a powerful conversation about the hidden patterns that keep women playing small… often without realizing it.

Together, they unpack the pressure to prove ourselves, the lie behind “I should just be grateful,” and the subtle ways we minimize what we truly want. Dana also shares a question she knows well… “Is this too much to ask?”… and how that one thought can quietly cap what we allow ourselves to pursue.

They explore the inner critic, the importance of feeling safe enough to be seen, and what it looks like to stop asking for permission and start trusting your own desires.

And underneath it all is a simple but confronting question:

What would you love… if nothing was off the table?

About Dana Hunter Fradella
Dana Hunter Fradella is a next level success coach for women who are here to make a difference. She’s the host of the top 5% ranked Her Next Level podcast, a sought-after speaker, and a proud mom of three wild girls in New Orleans.

Over the past two decades, Dana has helped hundreds of women leaders, founders, creatives, and entrepreneurs transform their lives, careers, and finances, moving from burnout and limitation into personal breakthroughs, full-spectrum wealth, and unapologetic fulfillment.

Connect with Dana
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danahunterfradella/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danahunterfradella

Resources & Offers Mentioned
Free Training: Create the Career You Crave
https://girls-who-recover.kit.com/career

Complimentary 1:1 Next Level Conversation
(Special offer for three listeners of Banish the Lies)
https://calendly.com/girls-who-recover/breakthrough-call-clone

Transcript

Tania 0:00

Hey friends, let me just say this conversation is fiery and what probably struck me the most is this idea that maybe we're still trying to prove ourselves in ways that we don't even realize. Honestly, I didn't see how much this was shaping my own thinking until I sat down with Dana Hunter Fradella. Dana brings a kind of fire that doesn't really let you hide. She makes you notice where you might still be playing small or quietly asking for permission without even realizing it, and she does it with so much compassion and humor. In this conversation, we talk about the lie behind the belief. I should just be grateful, the subtle ways women shrink themselves and what it actually looks like to want more without immediately minimizing it or feeling like we need to ask for permission. And somewhere in the middle of this conversation, a different question emerged. What would you actually love if nothing was off the table? This episode might stretch you a little. It did for me. Welcome to Banish the Lies, the podcast where we outsmart that sneaky inner critic and get closer to the truth that sets us free. I'm Tana Cervoni, your host and fellow work in Progress here to share real stories and small shifts that help you reclaim what fear and doubt once stole. Let's jump in. Dana Hunter Fradella, I have been so looking forward to this conversation. You bring so much fire, so much encouragement, to the work you do primarily with women. And I'm really curious, is there a. Specific set of experiences that have formed this voice, this powerhouse. Go get it. Take yourself to the next level voice that you show up in the world with.

Dana 2:11

I'm gonna tell you a really funny story and also thank you so much for letting me invite myself on the podcast because I said that woman is leading a movement and I wanna be a part of that.

Tania 2:23

I think we're part of the same. Yeah, I think we're part of the same movement, taking just different pieces of the puzzle. So I'm so happy you're here.

Dana 2:31

Last night I was putting my daughters to bed. I have a 5-year-old, an 8-year-old, and a 10-year-old. And I was outta town this week giving a keynote for a conference, and we were laying in bed and I was telling them about it, and they were telling me about their week. And Audrey, my middle child, said, mom, have you always loved to talk in front of people? And I took a deep breath and I said, yeah, I think so. She said, how did you know? And I said, in the fifth grade, I won the speech competition for dare. And I don't know, this dates me, right? But DARE is some variant of don't do drug, like just say No. It was the anti-drug program that was in elementary schools. And I say that chuckling because I guess yes, I've always appreciated. Being fiery about things that are important to me, like not doing drugs. And then also, you might know this about me, 16 years ago I got sober,

Tania 3:27

Yes.

Dana 3:28

I didn't take my own 10-year-old advice, but I think it started because it was a gift handed to me and I was audacious enough to use it, and I have to attribute that. Courage and bravery to my mom because my mom is both brave and audacious about as audacious and brave as one can be. And so when I was a kid, I would listen to my mom tell stories about how when she decided she was gonna medical school, her father-in-law, said, you just took a good man's seat. And then when she was on her way to a residency, that declined to admit her, but she was gonna go anyway and talk her way into it. She was changing out of her work clothes into the interview clothes, putting her pantyhose on the, in the bathroom, going to advocate for herself at Vanderbilt to let her in. Yes, you will. You are going to let me in and here's why. So they gave her an audience because essentially she wouldn't accept no as an answer. And as a woman who was becoming a doctor in the 1970s, it was unheard of almost for a woman to become a surgeon, an eye surgeon in that field. She was the only woman for miles. And so I got the benefit of not only hearing those. Stories, but watch her do it in action and be that kind of person in action. And that was really inspiring to me. And truthfully, I didn't know there was another option. And I thought the girls who wouldn't speak up and who weren't asking for what they wanted were, I, I didn't understand that. And so I had a little bit of a hard time making friends when I was younger because if you weren't after it, I was like, what are we even doing right now? But of course, that's changed as how my vault.

Tania 5:08

Oh my gosh, that's an amazing story. I didn't know that. I mean, I know you through our podcasting community, but that explains a lot. And, obviously on this podcast vanish the Lies we talk about the lies that, that limit us. And before I go to your own personal life. I would love to just follow that thread. So, you had a podcast, girls at Recovery, you're now doing her next level, which I'm loving. But related to that work with women and helping them hit that next level, I'd love to build on that story of what your mom experienced and what do you think are the messages that are still feeding women's, limitations that are getting in the way of that next level.

Dana 5:48

I wanna tell you a story about a conference. I went to Friday, a couple days ago. And 700 women. It's a women's leadership conference put on by the Chamber of Commerce in New Orleans. And the key opening keynote was a fireside conversation, and the very first question that was asked of three generations of women who were on stage to speak is, what have you been expected to do to prove yourself in your industry?

Tania 6:19

Hmm.

Dana 6:20

Tanya, my heart sank. I'm like, and I thought, is that the very first question that we're gonna be asking women, assuming that we're still set up to need to prove ourselves? And these were three different generations of women. A woman who was a CEO in her twenties, a woman who was a CEO in her forties, and a woman who was a CEO in her sixties. And all of them still said, I still feel like I have to prove myself in a world that's dominated, curated, and conditioned for by men. And I had to pause and really kind of bite my tongue because, you know, I, you heard me say that my mom, who was going to medical school in the 1970s was told by her husband's father that she had just taken a good man's seat.

Tania 7:07

Mm-hmm.

Dana 7:10

And so now, I don't know, 50 years later, we're still asking questions like, what do you have to do to prove yourself? And I think that's the wrong question. Like I think we need to be over proving ourselves. We need to be over it. I don't ever want my daughters to walk into the world feeling like they have to prove something to anyone except for their creator and themselves. And guess what? I know about the creator. She doesn't need anything to be proven. She doesn't need it.

Tania 7:39

Yeah, the question assumes that there's an absence of inherent worth or, some sort of inequality that needs to be overcome. And it's quite shocking that that is the leading question in 2026. And I'm wondering actually if there's a relationship. I was listening to your latest episode of your podcast and you talk about this phrase I should just be grateful. And I don't know if men get told that, and don't get me wrong, so just to be clear, I think we should all be grateful for everything and gratitude is beautiful,

Dana 8:12

Yes.

Tania 8:12

but I'm feeling there's a sticky lie behind that.

Dana 8:17

I am sorry. Can we just go back to like you said, oh, I don't think men get told that,

Tania 8:21

Yeah. Let's go back there.

Dana 8:22

for you, men do not get told that they do not think to themselves, I should just be grateful. I should not ask for the promotion. I should not go for the job. They don't even use the word should except for in their favor. Of course I should. Of course.

Tania 8:36

it's a question of permission space, right? Is it permission?

Dana 8:39

Exactly. And you know, I love men. This conversation isn't about men, but it's the socialization of girls and boys. And so in conversations of, I make sure to talk with my girls about money a lot because in the ages and spaces where I grew up, we didn't talk about money at all. Girls, Nope. But guys talking about money. Daycare, basically how to become good investors, how to become wealthy, how to create legacy. And women are just supposed to be able to balance a checkbook. So it's really about the conversations that we're having. And so, no, the answer is no. They are not being asked to just be grateful. And so there are a couple of keywords that we wanna listen for. Okay. Should is one. And you've spoken a lot about that word on your podcast. Should, unless it's in your favor, I should go for it is a flag. It's a conditioning flag. It's a flag of the patriarchy because women are doing a lot of shoulding on ourselves. And we can be done with that. We can just decide, I'm gonna, should in my favor, I should ask her to be on my podcast. Right. And then the other word that's a flag for me is just, I should just

Tania 9:52

Hmm.

Dana 9:52

grateful. Listen to me say this in a different context. Girl, I love your boots. Oh, I just got 'em at Target. It's no big deal.

Tania 10:01

Guilty. I've done that.

Dana 10:04

Instead of, yeah, they're amazing. Thank you. I agree with you. They're amazing. That's why they're on my body. Thank you. And that's what I said to this conference of young women. We're gonna replace words like, I'm sorry. And just, and only with Yes. And thank you. And thank you. Yes. I am grateful and I'll have more. Thank you. Yes. I am grateful for this six figure salary and I'm going to create the business of my dreams. Thank you. You hear the difference there?

Tania 10:32

Yeah. And words that are coming to mind are receiving and permission and, desire.

Dana 10:39

Can I push that a little bit? Not only is it, well, let me get your permission. Can I push that a little bit?

Tania 10:44

Go for it.

Dana 10:44

It's okay to want more. Absolutely. It's okay to want more. And it's also, it's our right. It's our responsibility. It's our birthright, it's our purpose, it's our path. Desire literally means from the spirit, which means it's not only, okay, it's your assignment, and if we're not going for more, then we're failing what our mission here is on this planet. And so we can not only give ourselves a little permission, we can dance totally naked in the street, in the middle of it because it's who we are and what we are designed to be is to want to create, to give, to invest, to become more because nobody is telling the grass outside to stop growing. But we're telling women. We should just be grateful for what we have. You heard my last episode. That's the thing I could not get over in corporate. I'm like, I should just be grateful. What are you telling the VP that are you tell is the CEO telling himself I should just be grateful that our company's in the top 100? No, he's not because he knows that when we really get behind ourselves and our mission and our purpose, we can create limitlessness. And I think that as women, we've been conditioned out of that, remembering that we are limitless. Our capacity to create our design, to lead, our ability to fricking go for it should. That's the only place should gets to be is. Yes. You should go for it. Let's go.

Tania 12:14

I love that so much because we put a lid on our creation, and if we're creators there is no limitation to where that goes. And I was talking to a friend the other day and I just asked her politely, can I mirror back something to you? And she's like, yeah, sure. I said, whenever you're talking and you're expressing yourself at the end, there's sort of this apology and almost like an apology for taking up space. Apology for taking the time to have me listen to her ideas. And I'm just like, how do we banish this? How do we eradicate this? Like somehow we need to justify, explain, get permission. No, just expand. Let's go for it a hundred percent. Hear what you're saying.

Dana 12:59

The apologizing just for existing, and it sounds like this. We'll go up and we'll give a keynote and at the end this, somebody did this, I'm not gonna call her out. It's not her. It's all of us. A world famous athlete. I. Close this out with remarks at a conference I attended recently to keep it ambiguous, she gave this beautiful talk on the power of gratitude and how we can use it as our super's power and our strategy and our advantage standing ovation worthy at the very end. Do you know what the last thing she said was to close her keynote? Does that make sense?

Tania 13:38

no, no, no, no. She did not.

Dana 13:41

Last thing she said, and I thought, man, and this isn't about her. You know, it's not an individual

Tania 13:45

We've all, we, yeah, we've all been there.

Dana 13:48

But we are seeking external validation and approval and still wondering. Does that make sense? Of course it makes sense. That's why you're up at the podium right now. Of course it makes sense. That's why you're taking a breath right now. You don't need a podium for it to make sense, but we'll create these beautiful speeches and businesses and client bases and dreams, and then at the end of it we'll say things like, is that okay? Does that make sense? Or we say, sorry a hundred million times when there's nothing to fucking be sorry for

Tania 14:22

And I'm Canadian and there's a big joke about how we say it more than others.

Dana 14:25

we do.

Tania 14:26

yeah. Sorry. I'm sorry. And I wonder, we women in particular where. We are conditioned more to be in connection with one another than maybe men. I don't know if that's part of the conditioning where you need to be okay with what I just said, and I don't wanna put myself above you and I want our connection to be maintained. I don't know if you see that within women's groups because we don't want others to be jealous or to put the relationship at risk, even if keeping that relationship might put my dreams at risk. Does that make sense? Uh, there I go. There I go. Does that make sense?

Dana 15:03

It does make sense. Yes, it does. That's a beautiful question and a really astute observation. And I think I see it in two different ways. One, and it could be both and everything can be so yes, we're wired for connection. Humans are wired for connection. And really the patriarchal values have estranged men from their own need for deep connection, which they have also.

Tania 15:26

a hundred percent.

Dana 15:28

and also we tend to thrive when we are connected. That's humans in general and women specifically. And so I. Yes, it can be a bit of a level setting, right? So nobody wants to get too far out of balance because they won't be in, they won't be in, they won't be in. I don't know if you've ever seen the, um, the show, I'm watching this with my daughters, a series of unfortunate events and there's this whole theme of things being in or out and you want to be in. That's why you wanna be on trend. You wanna have friends. You wanna make sure like that signals safety in a village community. And to go too far outside could mean risking your belonging, which is a deep human need is too belong. And so in that ways, I do think that we are shorting ourselves by not being willing to say the hard thing or upset anybody, or God forbid we heard somebody's feelings or say the truth about our experience. And another way to look at this is that our sisterhood and our ability to connect quickly and deeply is our superpower. And so I was on the phone with a friend of mine who leads a women's organization and she is hosting a, a seminar about activating your network. And so what we do is we're great at networking. I mean, we, if you don't have to call it that, but we're great at connecting. And what we're not great at is activating, which is we have these beautiful webs of women who are incredible and yet we're afraid to ask them for help or a reference or an introduction you see what I'm saying? And I think that this is an untapped superpower that we have as women is to be able to not just connect well, but also activate, so us activating you. And I could be, Hey, please like come share the mic with me on my podcast. And then it could also be like, Tanya, I know somebody who you need to be in front of who could support your business, or your dreams, or your podcast or her podcast, and really activating that. So we're doing the most important thing. Elevating and empowering each other, that's the assignment. And so sometimes the connection is to contain and be safe. And you'll see that a lot in like middle school girls and high school girls. And sadly a lot of adult women as well. And that doesn't fit so much that now as we become grownups, although I don't really believe in that, but you know, wisdom with things like families and careers and kids and things like that, we tend to seclude ourselves, which is cutting ourselves off from the life force and the superpower instead of saying, you know what? I'm gonna be brave and I'm gonna curate my own community that's aligned with values. I wanna say one more thing, just 'cause it keeps coming up for me. Back to the question of what are the things, the messages that we're still receiving that keep us, I'm gonna use the word cage because that's how it felt when I was at another women's leadership conference 'cause I love conferences so much and I love women. And I'm curious about what are we talking about right now? What is important? So again, a group of women leaders in the community, hundreds of them, and the very first opening session was about the GLP drugs.

Tania 18:49

Mm. Wow.

Dana 18:50

Pep, the peptides, and it was a panel of doctors and medical professions. And I'm, I know that they chose that out of love and interest because women are clearly interested in that. But you'll get this, right. You saw, you see what I see. I saw a room full of hundreds of women being told subconsciously, you are not thin enough. Here's this drug that's gonna fix you, and we're gonna dedicate an hour and a half of this leadership conference filled with hundreds of women who are leaders in the community. And you get to sit here and listen to how this is gonna help change your life,

Tania 19:25

And how it's gonna distract you from your purpose. Might I add?

Dana 19:28

za. Exactly.

Tania 19:32

Yeah.

Dana 19:32

And so,

Tania 19:34

I'm having a visceral reaction to this story, given my experience with, you know, 20 plus years of an eating disorder, and I thought that was gonna be the answer to make me good enough, right?

Dana 19:44

same. So I want you to know that. They, they took questions from the audience and my hand went right up in the air and they did not call me. I'm very sad to say. And in the workshop, that was the next hour. It was on holistic health and they did have time for audience commentary. So you better believe, I stood up and I said, I'm taking issue with the fact that we're talking about weight loss drugs in a room full of incredible women. Like that's gonna be our next solution. Like we are people who need to be number one, talk to instead of with. And number two, that we aren't perfect exactly the way that we are. And then we need another thing to fix us. We gotta be done with that. Not only believing that we need to be fixed, right? We believe that, not because it's an individual issue, it's a systemic plague and women are doing it to ourselves. The conference was run by women, so it wasn't like there we can blame anybody. There's no blame. It's just, can we wake up? And that's the first step.

Tania 20:44

There's no condemnation. I mean, I know people who are on those medications for health reasons, for personal reasons, but to kick off a conference with all the things we could be talking about, why did that get the stage first? That's just

Dana 20:56

It's a leadership conference.

Tania 20:59

Yeah.

Dana 20:59

So the message I got was, so if you're skinnier, then you can be what a better leader anyway. Well, I'm calling that out. So back to connection, I lost some potential friends in that because I was brave enough to say, I'm calling this out. Like, we need to be more awake than this. And it's not okay from my perspective. And so some women. Shied away from me at the end of the conversation, and many women ran as fast as they could and said, I agree. I can't believe they did this. And so our bravery makes us magnetic connectors. And together, of course, you know this, we can create much more than we could solo, and society encourages us to be siloed and solo. That's why nobody's talking about how, in America, forgive me, I don't know the exact statistic, but more women than not are taking multiple medications for things that. In my opinion, we could probably do without, and it's not an individual issue. So it's not like I'm calling you out for taking anxiety meds or depression, like you do what you need to do. But my concern is, as a society, if 75% of us are overmedicated, that is an issue. I'm taking issue with that, and we're led to believe that it's a singular individual problem. So that's why we do so much questioning ourselves. Should I be doing this? Should I be doing that? Should I be doing that? Like what is the system doing that I'm living in? We should be asking the questions of that.

Tania 22:25

You know what, we could have a whole separate conversation on how our society is structured Um, I would like to take us in a slightly different direction and come back to you in the sense that part of the mission of this podcast is to normalize the inner critic and just hearing you and you standing in your power, one might go down the path of thinking that Dana doesn't have any. Inner critic or limiting beliefs. So I would love to know what is one lie that you really struggled with, and if you could talk a little bit about that. It clearly wasn't speaking, but I'm assuming it showed up maybe in another area.

Dana 23:10

Yes, and I laughed because one of the reasons I sought you out is because I identify so deeply and it doesn't matter who the person is or you know how much confidence they seem to exude. You have already said this so beautifully in your content. We all have her, we all H her, that part of us that is shaming and judging and wondering and questioning, and. And call it the inner critic. Call it the shadow. I'm reading this book that's so mind blowing right now called the Tools, I'll have to look up the author, but it's the tools written by two psychiatrists who really wanted to be able to help their patients, but found that their training was so limited that their patients could never be actually helped. And so they cultivated these five or six tools. One of them is to it, it deals with the shadow, what they call the shadow. And I'll call the inner critic part of the shadow as well. And I highly recommend that book, especially that tool, because essentially the goal is not to engage with the shadow. Like she's not part of you. It's to separate yourself so that you see your shadow. You see that part of you that's like, you're not good enough. You definitely shouldn't be giving a keynote. They shouldn't have asked you. They must have been mistaken. You shouldn't hit record, you shouldn't do publicity. You hear her, right? That is a part. It's a part of me. And so one of the tools is you gather all that force and then you separate yourself and then you look at her because she's a part of you that needs to be seen and loved and held and, and when we do that, there's no banishing required. It's simply like, oh, I see you. I love you. You're part of me. It's that story you told when you were eight and you brought home your a plus, and your dad was like, but what about the 110% and of course. Love your love. Your dad and your dad is like my mom's the same way. Where's a, what about the a plus? You know? But the shadow is that part of us that internalized it, and we can't do anything at eight because our subconscious is still wide open at eight, and we're just believing everything that people tell us, soaking it in like a sponge until the conscious mind takes over, which is just after eight. And we create this inner critic or shadow part of us. That is haunting until, and this is my experience, we recognize that that shadow, that inner critic is a part of me and all I need to do in order to be in harmony with it. So that I go up on that stage and I deliver a powerhouse keynote, or I coach that client in a very deep and meaningful way and say the things that maybe no one else is brave enough to say, is acknowledging, seeing, loving that part of me, because I think the cycle is, I. I'm saying things to myself like judging and shaming, and you shouldn't do that. And who are you to do that? And you'll, I'm not gonna listen to you. Don't you dare say that thing in front of this room of hundreds of people. 'cause then nobody's gonna like you. That is all a part of me that's really just asking to be seen, loved, and acknowledged. And so as my hand was shaking in the air at that conference, because I was, I had some fire to breathe, I put my hand on my heart as a signal to safety. You're safe. We're safe. This is scary. It is important. It is brave. And my hand's firmly on the center of my chest because that signals two things. One is safety to my nervous system and my body. And two, a feeling to my shadow or inner critic that she's being held. I've got us. You're taken care of. You're welcome here. And I'm gonna say the thing, it's gonna feel scary and we're gonna do it anyway, but notice that I didn't yell at her. I didn't say, get the fuck out. I said, no, no, no, you're coming. We're gonna do this together. And so that's the strategy for bravery. It's the strategy for working with inner critic because she's that part of me that just needs to feel seen and loved. I.

Tania 27:08

I love that so much. You know, it reminds me of the phrase, you can only rise to the level of safety. And, and as much as this podcast is called Banish the Lies, I fully acknowledge that by banish it's really about not giving that voice full authority. But it isn't to your point about, punishing it or trying to annihilate it or even dissociate it. I mean, I know you've been in a recovery journey. I've been in my own recovery journey and I think I walked around for so many years entirely numb from the neck down. And I wish I had known the strategy you just offered because I believe that a lot of my bulimic behavior was really confusing. That voice and, if I knew it was safe to feel and acknowledge that and take her with me and show up as the resourced adult to hold her and still do the hard thing, maybe I wouldn't have had to numb out for so long. Granted, it started when I was 12 and I wasn't, I wasn't there. I couldn't see what you're suggesting now. I think that is such a beautiful key. And I think that's why things like meditation and those kinds of tools are excellent because you can start to differentiate. The true essence of your soul, the soul, the spirit from that voice, and the two are not the same. We inhabit the same space, but we're distinct and we need to make peace and work together. Okay.

Dana 28:39

Do you know who is listening to the podcast? Tanya Moms who have 12-year-old daughters and aunts that have 12-year-old nieces and neighbors that have 12-year-old neighbors and teachers that have 12 year olds. Students and so you better believe that this message is infiltrating the age that I wish too, that someone would've said, Dana, do you know who you are? Let's decide, and that was part of the talk last week in a room full of high school juniors. Remember who you are. It's not even a decision. You don't have to decide who you are. You don't have to create who you are. You already know your nowhere knows. And the key to staying grounded in your identity, I love that you taught the identity workshop, is remembering what you've already known and you've always known about who you are and standing firm and nope, I'm brave. That's who I am. I, I don't know. It's just like part of the coding. I'm brave. And so my decisions moving forward are aligned with that value of bravery. It's important, and I knew that when I was 12, but nobody ever said, Hey, who are you? do a lot of, here's how you should be. So the banish the lies is absolutely necessary because there are lies. Like, you should study this. You should major in this. You should date this kind of person. You should have this kind of job. You should take this kind of study. You should marry this kind of person. You should have this many kids. You should live in this kind of neighborhood. All lies. All lies. And that was part of my recovery journey. And a, in a large part, why I got sober. I needed to get sober because I was following a track that I didn't design for myself,

Tania 30:21

Was there a moment in that journey that pivoted where you're like, oh, this is who I am and this is who I thought I needed to be? Like was there a turning point there?

Dana 30:33

So many, it's like a candy land winding road. So

Tania 30:36

not linear, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Dana 30:40

Yes. The one of the first ones is I went to college, I was sure was gonna be a, a lawyer. I, that was my plan for success. My family were doctors. I couldn't deal with blood. I didn't like any of that. And I also saw them work an inordinate amount and I decided like I didn't wanna be having some job that made me work all the time. Uh, also, I'm a projector. We're not even designed to work that much, you know, like I knew what I knew and I knew it. I got to school and I took the pre-law classes and I couldn't get myself to get up and go. I hated them. I didn't like anything. And so I realized, okay, this isn't the track for me. So I ended up. In the arms of women's studies and I've arrived there by accidentally taking a class that I thought was pre-law track. I said, oh, what is this? What is this magic? And can I do more of it? And they said, yeah, we just created a major one in. And I said, sign me up. The other thing is I had this belief and maybe it's part of the build, we'll see, I had this belief that in order to be successful or worthy, I had to be on top. And so this manifested really early. I was president of the Honor Society and president of the team and president of this. And then I got to college, and it was president of the sorority. And I had the highest GPA in my major. And I thought first and best was what made me special and unique and worthy. And so. I joined Teach for America and I was an incredible teacher. And if I could go back and just like hang out in the classroom for a few more years, 'cause I really thrived there, I wish I would have. But what they said was, you're designed to be a leader. And I said, great. You're right. Let's go lead. And so I'm one of the very youngest principals in the country. I'm a projector, which means I'm really only designed to do maximum five hours of work a day in tents. But I'm in this position that requires me to be there at least 10 hours. And I was putting in because I thought it would make me more successful 16 hours. And sometimes I'd sleep in my office. So you can imagine. Plus at the intersection of alcoholism that was just progressing and progressing and progressing, the universe did me a solid, when I burned that down, it was a solid because it made me reexamine everything in my life, including do I even like working in schools? And the answer was no.

Tania 33:07

Hmm.

Dana 33:08

I didn't like working at schools except for I had done. That's what I'd always done. So I should have done that. And so that was another turning point and over and over and on and on and on. And I hope I never reach the end of the turning point because it's all information that's a reminder of, this is who I am, this is what I love. That's a pretty key question. How do I know who I am? Answer the question, what would you love? What lights you up? What makes you feel like you're totally alive? You're excited about waking up in the morning? That is a signal for you. And if we're not feeling like waking up in the morning, or we're pressing snooze multiple times, that is a signal. No judgment. It's just like, oh, well that's interesting. What's going on with that?

Tania 33:51

Yeah, I love those questions and I'm curious now. So let's go to, what you do now and you've got this fabulous platform and a podcast, her next level. And in your transformational, can I say that word, transformational success coach. And in that work, I'm curious to know, number one, do you find that women have that answer at the ready? Like, what do you love? What lights you up? What do you wanna do? And number two, is there a lie, a typical lie that you would say is more common in the women that you work with, that you help them dispel, banish, make peace with whatever words you want to put around that.

Dana 34:28

This is so interesting. That's a stellar question. Um, of course if they have listened to the podcast, they probably have an idea 'cause I ask it a million times in 16 different ways. But typically, no. The answer is no. No one has ever asked them. But Tanya. If you could do anything, anything. You had every resource at your disposal. Money wasn't an issue, you weren't worried about what anybody, everybody was gonna support you. What would you love? And we break it down into the four life areas. So health and wellness. What would, how would you love to feel in your mind and your body and your spirit? Relationships. How would, do you have a partner? Do you want one? How are your relationships with your family and your coworkers and your village? The third one is your career. The work that you are here to do in the world? Are you lit up by that? And the last one is your freedom. So time freedom, money freedom, personal freedom. And we asked that question, what would you love? What would you love? What would you love? And it's almost like we're pumping a well that's been dry 'cause it just hasn't been used. I grew up on a farm in Kentucky and we had a well, and if we didn't use it for a while, it would be dry and you'd have to pump it and pump it, and then some water would come out and then it would be brown. And you have to keep pumping it. And keep pumping it until the huge rush of clear water, some of the most incredibly mineralized water came pouring through. And that's what the process looks like. And it's just like, okay, well let's keep, let's keep asking, what would you love? And here's the lie. Is that too much? Is that too much? One of my great mentors who I admire and love says, you really believe you can have it all? Huh? You feel entitled to have it all. And I said, yeah, I do. I believe it. I believe that we were talking about, um, we were talking about a particular religious text before our interview started, and if you look carefully, that's in there over and over and over. It is my birthright to live in abundance and to have all of the prosperity and all of the abundance. And he didn't mean some of it, he meant all of it.

Tania 36:37

Yeah, I think that's probably one of the biggest things I'm taking away from this conversation. I mean, so much goodness pouring in, but I can even see how I've been limiting my thinking. I was thinking in terms of permission space and that kind of thing, but it's not even about permission it's wholeness. It's like big, it's, unlimited. And so I can see in my own thinking, there's room to really. Grow and to dissolve those, those limitations there almost feel like invisible. Barriers. That until you have conversations like this with somebody who is leading the way, um, that you don't even realize you're holding onto, but they're still in, it's the cage. It's the invisible cage.

Dana 37:18

Yeah, and you don't, we don't need the permission because we are the permission for each other. I need someone to be in front of me, just like we're in front together to say like, whatcha talking about your game is small. Up the game. Of course you can have that and more. Why haven't we thought about scaling? Why haven't we thought about traveling? Why haven't we thought about? And my thing, my inner critic, she's like, but isn't that too much to ask? It's pretty fast to ask all that much. Shouldn't you just be okay with, I mean, you've done pretty well talk 5%, you know? That's good. Mm-hmm.

Tania 37:52

Yes. And I think the related line where some women they've got a lot of things that they're holding together their households and whatever, and there's been this association that if you want the top of the mountain, it comes with striving, it comes with sacrifice, it comes with exhaustion. Like all the things, right? Like that's the picture that's been painted. So sometimes when people hear you can have it all, they think that there's a big price to be paid, but that's not what you're talking about.

Dana 38:20

I'm a projector. You are never gonna hear me say you have to work really hard.

Tania 38:24

Yeah. And for the listeners who don't know what she's talking about, Dana and I are projectors in the human design. So look up human design if you've not heard of it, but yeah.

Dana 38:34

Oh, and that doesn't mean, you know, if you, if you love something and you're a generator or manifesting generator, get behind it. Go do your whatever, 10

Tania 38:41

hours. Yeah.

Dana 38:42

A couple of things about that. One is we've been sold this idea that the top of the mountain is where we need to be. And the truth is, guess what's at the top of the mountain. Most people die on the way up there. Most people, it's freezing and you're normally up there alone. So it's a, it's lonely. So I think our destination needs to be not having it all, but having what you want. Do you even like mountains or should we be at the beach?

Tania 39:07

Right, right.

Dana 39:08

question, that's why we start with what would you love, not what society says, get to the top of the mountain. Like, I don't like mountains. I like hiking, but like, I'm not interested in, I don't need to go to the top of the mountain. I'm, in fact, I'm gonna tell you this story. A couple years ago, my best friend and I accidentally ended up in Utah. On a mountain, on a mountain, and it was the, tallest mountain in Utah. And we didn't get a good start. We're very disorganized and both of us are projectors, so we're just too busy seeing everything. So we got a late start, but when we got started, she's like, we're gonna go to the top of the mountain. And I thought it like, okay, yeah, you're right. We gotta get to the top of the mountain. That's gonna mean something. 'cause we're both over, you know, recovering overachievers. And so we got to the top of the mountain, but by this time, because we planned poorly, it was like 4:30 PM and you could just see the sun thinking about setting and we had hours to get back to the car. And so that's what happens when we put our compass in the wrong direction to say like, that's actually gonna be the most important thing. I listened to way too much true crime. We were definitely gonna be killed in 16 different ways on the way back. Okay.

Tania 40:17

That's hysterical.

Dana 40:18

So that is an experience that I have that taught me that the top of the mountain is not my next destination. I am a beach girl. I need to have my ass in the sand. No more mountains. Okay? If you're a mountain person, beautiful, then that's for you. But how will we ever know if we don't go within and ask the question over and over and over? What would I love? What would I love? What would I love? Almost like you're in spiritual orgasm. Oh, what I love. What would I love? What would I love? And then really give yourself permission to pour out onto paper or into the microphone, or into your voice note, into your rage, run, whatever it is that you would love, that's the compass. That's the lie that we can unlearn, is that it's not what anybody else would love. It's coming home to ourselves and remembering what would I love, and then being the permission to go for it.

Tania 41:14

I love that so much. So. For women who are listening right now, who are aware that they want, that, they want more of that, they don't want this autopilot, drag yourself outta bed. They've outgrown the life that they're in. But they're not quite trusting on how to break free of that and get to her next level. Where would you advise that they start, obviously by following your podcast and beyond that?

Dana 41:43

I'm actually taking the first several episodes of the Her Next Level Podcast is a journey. It's a transformational curriculum, and so that's where I would start, but simply asking the question, what would I love is a beautiful first step. Now, the thing I know about humans in general, me specifically, and what I've noticed with women is that we're better together. We are better together, and we will accomplish so much more with mentorship, with support, with community than we will ever do alone. It is the reason why we both have podcasts. And so the next suggestion is get someone to run with you to support you, to mentor or coach. You get support. And it can be something that you invest in or it can be something that you join, or it can be whatever your resources allow you to do. If you are fully resourced, you need to get yourself a coach because otherwise we spend time, you know, in our bathroom floor, out on our walks, overthinking and over planning and never doing. And the power of having a mentor and a coach is that they can reflect back to you. They can believe with you, they can remind you who you are when you forget, because we will. And then there's that level of next level accountability that says, Hey, you said that you were gonna create that workshop on identity between our call last time and this time. How's that going? And just that simple. I'm gonna be there. I'm holding fast with you for your dream, and I'm gonna be like a bulldog around You said you were dreaming about that and this is what we're here to do. And so whatever level feels like a stretch for you, that's where you should start. Not easy, not the one that's most accessible, the one that feels like you are gonna be stretch now, not overloaded. You know, like don't,

Tania 43:33

a little bit scared, a little bit outside

Dana 43:36

a little bit scared. That is a signal that you are onto something, sister. That fear is like, oh, wait a minute. Don't stretch us. Don't break through that upper limit. Fear is your best friend. She's telling you like, yes, we're about to grow.

Tania 43:51

I love a term my daughter uses, NVI, which is a combination of nervous and excited. So we like doing things that nite us. I don't know if we can, you can say that, but follow the fear,

Dana 44:03

to coin that.

Tania 44:04

yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's so good. And that accountability piece can't be underestimated because, I think we've also been sold a bill of goods around motivation and willpower, which are not sustainable energies. But when you have somebody who can reflect back to you the light they see in you and the potential, and you have an accountability structure, I mean, I know that that has worked for me in other areas, fitness, et cetera. So that is gold. And I am guessing that there are going to be women listening to this who would love. To know where they can find you, because I happen to know that you are a coach and you offer a lot of things that meet women wherever they are. So I wonder if you could talk a little bit more around where people can find you and what you've got out in the world and all of that.

Dana 44:52

That's a great question. I'm really playing with this idea of coach because yes, coach, but also some in terms of coaching, uh, you, what you see is what you get. So I was talking with a friend of mine who is also, she's getting her ICF, um, credentials. I think oftentimes we think we need credentials to do the work we're assigned, which like for me hasn't been the case, but sometimes makes us feel a little safer if we've taken all the courses and have the certificate. But we were talking about, you know, for coaching, a lot of it is I'm just gonna continue to ask you questions. Just ask and ask and ask. And my methodology is absolutely you are in leadership of your own dream. But what you can count on me to do is to tell you the thing that someone else won't, to get curious about it. So that you can approach whatever the hard thing is full on and we're not gonna dance around the thing that will change everything. And it's almost like, you know, that song, Christmas song, it's like, do you see what I see? I do a lot of that. I'm like, do you see what I see here? Am I totally off? And most, the most often response is, you know, I knew that. I just haven't been, no one has ever said it to me in that way. So what a gift it is. I don't know what the title of that is. Like servant basically is I get to show up and serve in a truth telling, supportive, encouraging way. And I would love to, if you're a listener and you're feeling lit up by this conversation and there's something inside of you that says, oh my God, I have to go for it. I literally cannot go another day without at least trying. Then I want you to find me on Instagram. Just DM me. I'm right there. I don't, nobody else is in my dms. And let's get on a conversation together. If I feel like we're a good fit after that conversation, my first 90 minute conversation, and sometimes it goes two hours because that's how deep we go, is a gift from me to your dreams. And I found that sometimes we can accomplish the impossible just in 90 minutes or two hours. And sometimes it leads to a longer more Mm. A more in depth conversation. So, but you get to decide that because you're in leadership of your own dreams, you are in leadership of your own dreams. So best way Instagram, I.

Tania 47:14

Thank you, and I love that you repeated that phrase multiple times. I absolutely love it. You're in leadership of your own dreams. What a beautiful way to tie up this conversation, and I'm just so grateful. I'm grateful I get to have this conversation with you, and I'm so grateful on behalf of everyone listening, because some really beautiful gems and just grateful that you're in my circle. So thank you. Thank you for being here.

Dana 47:41

You are so welcome. I am also grateful, and I can't wait to see what's next for you and your community of women who are committed to banishing the lies so that we can stand firmly in who we are and whose we are, and what we are here to create in this life. I'm so grateful. Thank you for the warm invitation to join you today, and I love you so much, all of you.

Tania 48:06

Mm. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for listening to Banish The Lies. If today's episode resonated with you, take a moment to let it settle in. And maybe share it with a friend who could use it too. Lies, lose their power when we're brave enough to challenge them. I'm Tania Cervoni, and until next time, be kind to yourself. And remember, you're not broken, you're not alone, and you don't have to stay stuck.