Episode 12: Cold Water, Running & Sobriety: Will Edwards on Resilience as a Dad of Two

Will Edwards is a dad of two, an NHS cardiac rehab exercise specialist, and four years sober.

In this episode, we go deep on the “grey area” drinking trap (when it’s not a rock bottom… but it’s still costing you), and the moment Will caught himself thinking 'I need a beer'—and realised where that road can lead.

We also unpack how running became far more than fitness for Will (a mental sanctuary and a third place), why cold water therapy isn’t just a social media challenge (it’s nervous system training), and how discipline is built through small, repeatable commitments—not motivation.

If you’re a dad who’s tired of feeling foggy, reactive, and stuck in the same loop every week… this one will land.

What we cover...

• The shift from wanting a drink to needing it—and why that matters
• How Will built consistency with running (even when he hated it)
• Cold water therapy: breath control, presence, and stress reduction
• Balancing self-care with family life (without the guilt)
• Sleep hygiene, nutrition, and why “scrolling at night” is stealing your mornings
• Handling social pressure and saying, simply: 'I don’t drink.'

Chapters...

00:00 Intro
02:49 Childhood, bullying & resilience
05:45 Working in NHS cardiac rehab
08:53 The moment sobriety clicked
11:46 Running as therapy
24:04 Cold water therapy routine
50:05 Balancing dad life + training
01:05:52 Sleep hygiene
01:09:01 Tough sobriety situations
01:24:30 Advice to younger self
01:30:14 What’s next for Will

Connect with Will on Instagram - chilly.will.e.runs

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Share this with a mate who needs the truth, leave a review, and remember: change doesn’t happen by accident. 

It happens when you get honest, do the work, and show up for yourself and your family.

Stay real, stay relentless, and keep building your legacy—one choice at a time.

For more hard-hitting stories and practical tools, follow, subscribe, and join the conversation.

Let’s be real: your next chapter starts now...

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Hello everyone and welcome to today's episode. Today I'm joined by Will Edwards, a dad of two, and he's my kind of guy. He chooses cold water dips and running where most people are choosing excuses. So today we're going to dive deep into how he got sober and what kept him there, how running became more than just fitness and more of a therapy. Why cold water isn't just a challenge for Instagram, it's a tool for the nervous system, your headspace, and your discipline. And how he juggles all of this while still being a dad of two. So let's dive in. Will, take me back. So what was your childhood like? And are there any early influences that you would say shaped your resilience?

SPEAKER_01 1:12

I don't know. It's very difficult when it comes to sort of looking back at childhood. Because I think before I went sober and post going sober, the answer would probably be a little bit different. I um think it was rose-tinted glasses, a little bit of the blinders on. Looking back, it was just a normal childhood, single parent household, and grew up on a council estate. Actually, quite quiet, introverted growing up, the sort of the target for a lot of bullying when I was in my teenagers. So I think actually maybe that started the this or planted the seeds for the resilience side of things and that strong character. Although that didn't really develop until I got significantly older. I was about 14 when I got involved in martial arts. And as a a means to an end, really, I thought if I knew how to look after myself, I could. And the confidence really changed actually. Once I knew how to look after myself, the bullying seemed to stop without having to use what I'd learnt. And that really set me on a course to be involved in interested in exercise and fitness growing up, and that's actually since the age of about 14, it's been a constant, regardless of where I am in life and what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Hmm. So so you say m martial arts sort of planted the seed with the bully, and that sort of where the resilience started. My son's 15 and he boxes. Yep. And um, I was a very keen boxer um when I was younger, and I highly recommend anything like that because not only does it help obviously with your social skills, it's uh it's building that discipline, that resilience, it's fitness, there's so many positive things that can come out of learning something like this.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Absolutely, and it's sort of I got on to progress through it quite well, ended up coaching and teaching, and I always admit I was a bit of a one of the outcasts at high school in uh sort of long hair, black clothes, skateboards, not the typical sporty guy. And because of that, all of the people that were source, the source of my trouble at school were the sporty guys, the football team, all of that. So I was never really I did everything to avoid PE. Um, and I remember a teacher looking at my A-level options, one of the teachers sort of took me to one side and really wanted me to go down the PE and the A-level in physical education route. And funnily enough, probably 15, 16 years later, he joined the gym that I was managing. And he was as shocked to see me as I was him. However, he admitted that he knew that there was some sort of interest and potential with exercise from me, and he also knew that the people that were the source of my problems weren't going to be the people that stayed on to do higher education, but I just saw that as a risk, didn't want to put myself in that situation consciously, so I didn't bother. I did the two years of A-levels, or nearly the full two years, in art, graphics, and music, very different to what I ended up doing. But then I stepped out and retrained, went back to college and did another two years in sport and exercise, and that sort of really set the ball rolling for now, 20 years later, still working as uh an exercise specialist within the NHS. So it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

So so what is your role now then within the NHS as well?

SPEAKER_01 4:48

I work in a cardiac rehabilitation team. So for people that have had heart attacks, heart surgeries, knead and transplants, all sorts sort of within that. Our aim is to rehabilitate them, get them back to full fitness, full strength, and beyond what they were doing previously in a sort of three-month period that they spend with us after having it. So I feel incredibly fortunate to be honest, in that I'm one of those people that actually enjoys getting up and going to work every day. And it's been three and a half years, but it's the only job I can actually still see myself doing in another 30 years' time, which I've never had before. So yeah, very fortunate.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

So your sobriety, you were saying before, is uh you is it four years you've been sober, did you say? Yeah, just over four years. So it's four years Christmas Day just gone.

unknown 5:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

So does that tie into your job? Did you go sober and did you see that a pivotal moment? Did you see what it was doing to your body through obviously your education and what you had learnt?

SPEAKER_01 5:59

And it's it's difficult because I think actually it was the there was a few things that came into place before sobriety was even considered. Okay. So I previously I was working within a physiotherapy company doing exercise rehabilitation, and I got redeployed during the second COVID, the horrible COVID, not the nice summary one. And that really changed my thoughts around work, around the job I was doing. But I also got to step out of quite a toxic environment at that point for three months, and I thought, right, I'm gonna make the most of this, I'm gonna start journaling again. Something I did when I when I was much younger. I'm gonna do the cold water therapy, I'm gonna stay active, I'm gonna read. And I really started to put these things in, but I didn't even consider alcohol. But I'd spent that three months and I kept everything in place when I went back to work, and that was really the catalyst for me looking at leaving that environment. But also a good friend of mine around that time, he set himself a challenge to get in the sea every day for a year, 10 minutes in the North Sea. And I got involved with the cold water through him, but he was very openly an advocate for sobriety. He's in recovery. He is now probably six months further on than I am, but he's with alcohol and cocaine addiction, and he really recovers loudly. And through talking to him and hearing him talk, it started to plant a seed for me to think about alcohol, how I'd use it, why I'd use it. But then there was one day, the pivotal day for me was I'd had a long day, I was back in that toxic environment, things were getting on top of me. Um, it had been one of those nights, neither kid wanted to go to bed very well. Everything had built up and built up, and I went to the fridge and there was that thought of I need a beer, and I pulled the fridge open looking for that beer. And I just caught myself, I pulled myself up at that instant because I'd say I'm a traditional, typical of my age group drinker, to be honest, it's not addicted in that it was very much the binge drinking culture. I probably wouldn't drink during the week, but then I'd drink far too much over a weekend. Um, or and as I got older, that same thing happened, it was just the distance between got bigger and bigger, so it was even more of a binge. And then, of course, getting older, the recovery was much worse afterwards. But that one day, after talking to uh Sam, Dare to Dip, my friend, he um planted that seed and he'd spoken about his recovery. And I caught myself there just in that instance, thinking, Well, I need this beer as a coping mechanism, but then the next beer is a coping mechanism, and then you can almost see how that trajectory could map out and it could become a problem, it could become an addiction. And then actually I thought I'd be really arrogant to think, yeah, that's not gonna be me. And to then carry on, I thought would be actually irresponsible. So I decided to set myself a goal a year. 1st of January 2022 would be the year. That Christmas I bought myself four cans, that was it for the whole Christmas period. And actually Christmas Day I thought I got halfway through and I thought, you know what, I'm not really not really feeling it. And it ended up being my sober date was Christmas Day 2021. And yeah, I thought a year that'll be enough to sort of really see and recalibrate and address things. But I got to probably May. I think maybe earlier than May, I knew the outcome of that year. But it probably took me until June, July before I said, you know what, I'm done. I'm not gonna go back. And yeah, here we are four years later.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

Yeah. It was dry January for me as well. I thought I'd I thought I'd try it. I I was becoming more and more sabre curious and and trying to moderate for a couple of years really and just trying to I was just fed up with that that voice in my head and battling all the time and trying to cut down and not cracking on a Thursday and trying to make the weekend longer. And yeah, but I was I was similar to you. I was a bit of a binge drinker. I had no real bad rock bottom, no horror story or anything like that. But just just a few subtle situations, you could say, and I resonate so much with what you've just said. It's that transition when it goes from wanting to needing. That's a really, really important point to make. But it takes a lot of self-awareness, I think, to to zoom out and look at yourself and have that realization.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

And I think had it not been for that year of journaling and looking and stepping back, it probably would have never happened.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

Yeah. So you put a lot of um a lot of it down to the guy um that you met, Sam. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

So Sam Phillips is got a huge following on sort of Instagram and TikTok. Um is really open about his recovery and yeah, the fact that I actually know him as well is just incredible. To be able to call him a friend is yeah, something I'm really quite proud of.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

And you still keep in touch now after four years?

SPEAKER_01 11:39

Yeah, absolutely. He doesn't he used to live literally around the corner, and every now and then if either of us had a particularly stressful day or something bad, some bad news, it'd always phone or I'd phone him and we'd end up meeting at the usual spot and going and sitting in the sea for ten minutes and just having that yeah, that time to talk about nothing and everything, but to be in the cold and the silence. Yeah, is brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

And how did you meet him? Did you meet him online? Did you meet him through Instagram? No, I actually met him through my wife.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

He was seeing one of her friends years and years ago. Oh, okay. Um, and then it was sort of when that stopped. I actually really liked the guy, and it was wasn't one of those breakups where you've got to choose sides. And yeah, no, he's yeah, good one. Really nice guy.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

I find it fascinating that how we'll come to crossroads in our life, or we'll come to a fork, or we'll meet certain people. And a lot of the people that I talk to on this podcast about transformation and about change and about going down different paths, uh, they it does come down to a lot of timing, doesn't it? And who you meet and uh and where they are on their own journey and where they're going as well. It's um yeah, so yeah, it was meant to be, right? Absolutely. Because who knows, if you would have met him and you would have met somebody else, then then who knows what would have happened. We we we probably wouldn't be having this talk today, Will.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

No, and especially as, like I like I say, the the fact that I didn't have a problem with drink, the fact that I'd go out drinking a couple of times in a year, and as the kids got a bit older, I very rarely had drink in the house. It wouldn't be like there was loads of drink and I'd drink a lot during the week. It'd be typical barbecue, maybe have a few, or some a glass of wine while cooking, but it would never be I'd never get drunk in front of the kids, and yeah, it just got to got to the point where it was becoming a smaller and smaller part in life, but it was still there and it was yeah, so eating into the following week, which is just not not worth it.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Yeah, yeah, you're paying the price, aren't you? Um that's what they say, you're paying the price for tomorrow. You're buying tomorrow's happiness. So, what got you into running, Will? Was that always part of your life, or did it just come up after you got sober? Because um because I obviously I follow you on Instagram and I'm seeing lots of running at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

Well, it's it's a strange one because back when I was going through my GCSEs and A levels, and I was uh kickboxing and boxing, I'd run. It wasn't a sort of it was just part of the training. I'd do it as as homework, and it was back in a time where there was no no Strava or smartwatches, so I couldn't tell you what the times were, what the distances were, or any of it, but it's now I well I got into running a bit probably about 15 years ago, but I got into the obstacle courses. I liked the mud runs, and it was actually about the obstacles rather than the running. I used to say you could offer me a 20-mile obstacle course or a five-mile road run, and I'd have chosen the obstacle course all day because I found running awful and boring, and yeah, it now turns out that I wasn't consistent enough and I wasn't slow enough to start with, and I'd end up killing myself a mile down the road. But actually, yeah, every between Christmas and New Year, I set out my journal for the next year, and I'll come up with there's a guy called Paul Mort that calls it the five F's, which are fun, fitness, family, finance, and focus. And I'll try and set myself a handful of goals in each of those. And in 2024, I'd set myself a goal to do something that challenged me and something that I wouldn't normally do. And a guy, again, I met through Instagram and through Sam, Michael Sargood or Happy Without the Hoops on Instagram. He got me in a moment of weakness and he said, Oh, there's space for Alcohol Change UK to run this 10k in London in September. And I thought going sober would be the end of my days of peer pressure. But I was like, he caught me and I was like, Do you know what? Actually, yeah. And then I battled through the training for that, inconsistent, no real plan. And then I crossed the finish line and I got the medal and I got the t-shirt and that dopamine rush. Like, right, we're gonna do this again. And I said, if I raised£500 for alcohol change, I'd enter a half marathon. I tipped over£500 the next day with an anonymous donation that ended up being from my wife. So I then did the a local half marathon the year after last. So September's just gone, but it's now without fail four times a week. It's I'm out running probably for about 40-50 kilometres each week. And it's my I never thought I'd say that 5 a.m. on a Sunday is my favourite part of the week, but it is it's sort of getting up in a silent house, trying to get some food down and going out before the world wakes up, is yeah, something that is truly special from a from a mental point of view, from a point of view where I always say it's nice to have a space where you're not just work will, you're not dad, and you can just be Will. But actually I think when I'm out running the streets and no one else is around, it almost feels like I'm not even Will. It's just existing, yeah, and it's yeah, it's brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Yeah, I remember doing my I used to do my long runs on Sunday mornings, and I used to get out back when we were living in Bristol, and there'll be people coming home from nightclubs and stuff, and I'd be out running and the sun was coming up like four in the morning or whatever, or five in the morning, and um it's a it's really special, isn't it? It's just so quiet and the birds are just coming out, and yeah, it's um yeah, special.

SPEAKER_02 17:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Really is it for your mental health. That that was gonna be my next question, Will. How does running help your mental health and does it help you stay sober as well?

SPEAKER_01 18:06

It's yes, I think it does, in that I don't think I don't think about alcohol anymore. I don't even think about alcohol-free beers anymore. Oh, okay. However, there there is times where I was listening to one of your episodes the other day and about a guy running on holiday and seeing a Chris San Miguel glass. And there is those times where you think, oh, you're commentation. Yeah, you're like, oh that it would be it would be nice, and you you do think it, and it's I wouldn't say I know people in recovery call it the fuck it button where they're just like they're gonna burn everything to the ground. It's not that. Um but it's I think it the biggest thing it helps with that mental health, as I've just said, that part of just existing. And there's that theory of the having the third, the third place, isn't there, where you've got home, you've got work, and then having that other place. And for years that would be going out with workmates, getting drunk, and that'd feel like the third place. Or I got into a Brazilian jiu-jitsu a couple of years now, and it's something I'm trying to make the timers work so I can get back to it. But actually, running is my third place. It is where there's no expectations, there's no need.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

I'm not yeah, not accountable to anybody but myself. And it's yeah, I couldn't ask for more, to be honest. I absolutely love it for that.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

I think it's uh when you go sober as well, it's it's about filling the voids, like you just saying, about finding that finding that other space and what you can do. And that's what so many people do. I think when they do dry January or stop October, they'll they'll stop and they'll be like, because their life has just been revolved around drinking so much. That's why so many people think it's boring, and they're like, Well, I've got nothing to do. It's like that's because you you've used alcohol so much that it's become part of your identity, and of course you give it up and you're like, Oh my god, what am I gonna do now? But that is the time when you can actually live and you can do all those other things that you could have and should have been doing while you were drinking all those years. But yeah, that's it, it's a really, really good point. So, have you ever had any days when you don't want to run and how do you push through it? Because of course we're not all perfect, and we can't just all get up at five every morning and just go run.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

There is there is there's always times uh where it sort of the voice nearly wins, and it's it's usually sort of getting ready in a quiet living room and you can hear the rain hammering on the conservatory roof, and you know that actually I could quite easily just stay here and be warm. And I'm uh now I'll have those thoughts while I'm lacing up, like I could do that, but having a plan to follow and having a set, I do it Tuesdays, Thursdays, Fridays, Sundays, and actually, if I don't do it now, I can't fit it in later on. So there's no other time to do it, so it's yeah, it's it's difficult. And there are times, I won't lie, there's been times where the voice has won. Um, woken up feeling really under the weather, and I thought, actually, this isn't that's not worth it today. But yeah, I think the the difference is between that consistency and that commitment and motivation, isn't it? Because you're not gonna be motivated all the time, but actually having a goal, a set outcome that you want to achieve. It's gonna it's the same with the journaling and the goal setting. If you're gonna work towards something every month over the year, you need to you need to check the map to make sure you're going in the right direction and tick those things off one run at a time, or one cold dip at a time, or any whatever it may be. I think everyone's guilty of I'm gonna stop smoking at New Year's, or those little New Year's resolutions that you ask them in February and they've forgotten what their New Year's resolutions actually were. So it's yeah, having that set targets to achieve is what helps on those days where I don't want to do it.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

I think it's good to have uh uh like a North Star, like a main goal, and then have micro goals that are gonna lead you to that North Star, to that, to that visionary goal. I think that's a really good way of looking at it because lots of people they have a big vision, yeah, a big North Star, and it's just like so overwhelming, it's like, how am I gonna get there? But if you can break it down and um like you've just said, and you can have a sort of structure in the week and you can work to that. Uh I think James Clare says in Atomic Habits, um, if you do if you with your habits and your routines, if you do something more than twice, then that becomes a new habit. So you can have the odd day off, I think, when you're not feeling it. But as long as you don't do two or more in a row, then I think that's fine. But um, yeah, it is tough. I know what you mean about the rain as well, especially for for some reason we'll get on to cold water in a minute. But whenever it's raining, I find it really hard, and I know you've said the same before, is find it really hard to get in the water, it's really strange, isn't it? Yeah, because you you're going out to get wet purposely, but it is yeah, it's strange.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

And it is the I think with the cold water, that's that like the two-second rule almost in that I'll make sure that I'm as soon as both feet are in it, I'm at least up to my neck, if not fully submerged within two seconds, because if I give it a small pause, I'm then there trying to convince myself to do it.

unknown 23:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

Even now. Yeah, yeah, it's that hesitant, it's that hesitation and that fight to that hesitation. Yeah. It's and that that voice is always lost every time. There's not been one time that I've gone out for an ice bath and gone, actually, no, I won't do it today. It's that voice always loses, but it tries every time.

SPEAKER_00 24:14

It does. Yeah. It does. And and sometimes it's so strange because sometimes it's louder than other days. Uh I'll go through phases where it's it's very quiet and I'm and I'm really in the zone. And then the last couple of days recently, it's been really loud, and it's been like, you don't really need to do this every day. Come on, you can have a day off, and it's just like f off, no one getting in. And then you feel amazing after, and it's so worth it. But you sometimes you've just got to go through that struggle and you've got to push through. And you never regret it after, do you? You never you never regret a workout, you never regret an ice plunge. Yeah. Never. And uh Yeah. So have you got any tips, Will, for people that are starting that that are just getting into running and they're saying they're too busy or they're unfit and it's not for them.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

So, I mean, for me, what really was probably the the main catalyst into all of it was making a daily walk a non-negotiable. Again, that was tied to a right, I want to do this many million steps this year. So that works out. I've got our average this many a a week. But that started off with being an audio book in, a 20-minute walk at lunchtime every day. Um, weekends, right, instead of walking, instead of driving to the shop, we'll walk or we'll we'll walk here and getting the kids involved. And it ended up them from there being like, right, well, actually, I'll still walk every lunchtime. Admittedly, there was probably it was a Tuesday a couple of weeks ago. I had a long lunch period at work. I overslept, didn't get up at four o'clock to do my hour-long run. So I was like, actually, I can fit that in at lunchtime. So I swapped it for a run on that day. But it is just small steps again. If you if I went back to that me no September 24 crying with 300 metres left to do in a 10k that I'd entered that I thought I wouldn't finish. If I now said to him, right, in 18 months this is what you're gonna do more than double that in, it wouldn't have wouldn't have been possible. Even the idea of running a half marathon 18 months ago was ridiculous. A year ago seemed insurmountable. But gradually building up, adding five minutes on, so the long run every week for an extra couple of kilometers. It's now as a a friend of ours, I put a post out a story out on Instagram to see if anyone wanted a a social ten to twelve kilometre easy plod today. And she commented saying that I've just referred to 10 to 12k as an easy plod, which again wouldn't have. But if you look at that target, if you look at Everest or you look at a marathon, it's gonna seem impossible, and that's what stops most people. Same as quitting smoking, going from 20 a day to nothing. But actually putting in those small steps is yeah, I still catch myself out now. It was just this distance today where I couldn't even do a kilometer non-stop to start with.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

So it is it it it goes back to consistency, doesn't it? It's all it's all about consistency is key.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

And and and the compound effect, and just keep going and keep plodding, like you've just said, really.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

And it's I mean, like things like I didn't use it myself naively, but things like the Couch to 5k app is brilliant. I mean, the number of our patients that we recommend it to to get back into running after things like heart attacks and whatnot, it can be really effective. So it's just having that, yeah. But then that's also the accountability of this app is telling me what to do. I don't have to think about it.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

If you can take that out of it. Accountability, yeah. Accountability is so important, and if you can surround yourself with the right people and have that community, and everyone's got the same goal, you're surrounded with like-minded people, it's gonna it's it's gonna be such an important thing. Um, it hasn't got to be a solo thing, you haven't gotta isolate yourself and lock yourself away and train really hard. If you can if you can get involved in these groups, then yeah, it it's um yeah, yeah, brilliant. Um it's a brilliant way of looking at it. And uh I've never done any of that um that couch to uh 5k or anything like that. I I was quite stupid when I started running. I um I did a half marathon first. Right. And I and I injured myself really badly, and uh, and I remember I had to 2013 I had to watch my wife run the Bath half marathon um in the in um down there Bristol in uh in the southwest of England, yeah. And it drove me mad. I was like, right, I'm gonna I'm gonna recover, I'm gonna do stretch and I'm gonna um I'm gonna build up the X, Y, and Z muscles, and I'm gonna do this. And it really, really motivated me. But yeah, I should have definitely started at least a 10k. I actually did a half marathon and then I did a 10k and then I ended up doing a marathon. But yeah. Cold water therapy then, Will. My next question was gonna be about how you got into it, but I think you touched on it earlier when you met your friend Sam. What does a typical cold water dip routine look like now today?

SPEAKER_01 29:53

So now it's so I set out, I've been doing it with the with the pod. So even though I live near the sea and I could get to the beach in 10 minutes, there's a really good group that Sam set up called the Dare to Dip group, and they meet, and there's sometimes up to 40, 50 of them there on the sand in the morning, and they do it every day. But it's that time for me, what I'd get it from it in the morning of that reduced stress and that lower sort of cortisol level would be given straight back when I knew that I had to rush back to get home to start pack lunches to start the day for the kids. So I invested in the pod for the garden because the showers were good, but they just weren't doing enough for me. No, it's not a thing, it's not I mean they they worked for six months, and then that voice creeps in and you say, These are easy now, and you stop them for a few weeks, and it's but I I got the pod in July two years ago, three years ago. And last no 24, I set myself the goal of doing them every day through that year. Um, so I'd do it every morning if I could, sometimes in the evening, I'd film them all, and that was like this big year-long challenge. Now I'm not as strict, I'll do them as and when. And as even though I've had the day off work today, I had a slower start to the day. I went for a run, I've potted around, probably gonna have one a little bit later on before bed. However, without fail, I'll go out, I'll get ready, I'll tell myself I don't want to do it, I tell myself I don't need to do it, I'll stand there. It's more often than not, I spend longer standing there thinking about it than I spend in it. And certainly spend longer thinking about getting in than I spend actually getting dry afterwards. But it's there's some days where it's the absolute minimum. I go in head under, I stay in it until my breathing's under control, so the silence that I get in the brain, that noise, that static stops, a few breaths there, and then I get out and whatnot. But then other days, if I've got the time and the luxury, I'll make a coffee, I'll have a coffee nearby, I'll get in, get under, get my breathing back, and then I'll sit and drink my coffee in there. And it's oh okay, you drink your coffee in hi, that's interesting. Yes, okay. I've never heard that one before. But then it's like a a bit of a nice experience. Usually that's a weekend Saturday morning, 10 o'clock one. Yeah. Um but it is yeah, as I've said, it's for me. I know if I take my time getting in, I'm gonna take ages getting in. Once I've finally sort of had a word with myself and committed to lifting that first foot to step in, I will be under the water within two seconds of that foot touching the floor. That is the deal I've made with myself purely because I know that that monkey mind is far too weak and isn't gonna let me. I'm gonna bottle it and I'm gonna stand there and having the camera there filming it helps. I could quite even though I could delete the video and you wouldn't know.

SPEAKER_00 33:13

But I can just Yeah, yeah, it's very true. What we were just talking about with accountability. A lot of people, uh a lot of my old friends say to me, Why do you go running and film it every day, Luke? You know, are you mental? What's wrong with you, etc.? And and I explained to them, I'll say, It's accountability. I said a lot of people follow me, and if I don't, if I miss a day, they message and say, Oh, are you okay? What's wrong? or whatever. I so it and it's yeah, it's it's a subconscious belief. It's like like you exactly what you just said, it's a really good point that you're filming yourself. Yeah, it really does. Yeah, you uh it it definitely holds you accountable, doesn't it? You've said yeah before as well that you do it just before um yeah you go to bed sometimes. I've never heard that, or either. I've always done them in the morning. There's a group of people here on the Isle of Man in the town that I live in Pill and it do most mornings, but I've never seen anybody.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

It still doesn't make any sense to me, however, that rush that you get in the morning, how it wakes you up and gets you sort of really going for the day. It seems stupid to do that at night. It is like yeah, like having a red ball, is how it sounds, isn't it? But actually that's what I was gonna say. Drops your core temperature down, which happens naturally as you get that release ready for bed. Honestly, you will never have as good a night's sleep as you have after having a nice bath before bed. It's honestly it's a I I don't do it every day. Wow, and that's something for me. But it's the first time I'd done it. It was one of those days where I was like probably a hundred days into the challenge, and I thought, I just I'm not feeling it. I'd overslept in the morning, I'd run out of time. All of the excuses that weren't really excuses mounted up. And I was like, right, it's nine o'clock, I'm gonna get it done. I can't not. And I slept so well. I came in, I had a cup of like a mint tea or something afterwards to get that little core temperature to make sure. And honestly, I slept so well. My sleep score on Garmin was really high everything, so it's uh it is a real game changer. I definitely recommend it.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

Okay, that's something I'm definitely gonna try. What temperature would you recommend? I've asked you, it's just for the listeners because I've wrapped your brains about this before. What temperature would you recommend?

SPEAKER_01 35:59

I think they say the science says under 15 degrees. I've seen other research it says under 19, which is really helpful in the summer because you don't need too much to cool it. Yeah. Um, I've not got a chiller, I've got one of the basic pods. Um for me, my favourite temperature is probably about four degrees. I know that lower than four, if I put my head under, admittedly, let me run it back, 18 months ago under four degrees. I put my head under, I got brain freeze. However, with a year's worth of growth, I've got an extra bit of insulation now on my head, so it doesn't cool quite as much. Yeah, I think four degrees for me is the sweet spot. I find between nine and five degrees harder than I find four degrees. Which is yeah, it's again strange. I don't it doesn't make sense. However, in the summer, 14 degrees on a 25 degree day feels just as challenging. Because it's that it's that ambient temperature as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but it's I think it's that different in temperature, isn't it? Obviously. For me, it was is September. October's the time to start with a pod because you get that drop in temperature. You probably noticed this year, October, something the temperature second week, third week of October drops off a cliff. Um I I expected it to sort of go down like half a degree here and there. But it's just one day you wake up and it's about four degrees colder. But it's the same as the I mean, the cold showers, they're brilliant, but I always recommend turning the hot off till it gets to a section where it takes your breath away, and then you get used to that and you turn a bit more hot off rather than going straight in for cold because no one likes it's the point is you're not meant to like it, but for some people that can be enough of a shock to just stop you doing it and actually make it so it's cold enough to be a challenge, get used to it, and then do it again and move the goalposts. If you compare your ideal temperature to my four degrees, I know people that two degrees is the ideal spot. I know other people that seven, but it's yeah, it's what works for works for each person.

SPEAKER_02 38:26

Yeah, yeah. Everyone's different.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

Definitely It's finding your own sweet spot, really. How long are you going in each time then, Will? And are you submerging your head each time because I've stopped doing that now because it's so bloody cold and I get brain freeze. So I I I've been putting a hat on and I don't think you've been ahead of it. And I feel like I'm cheating a little bit when I did it.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

Again, especially below a certain point when I was on a sort of short hair below a certain temperature, it was just a no-go that ruined the whole dip for me, pretty much, in that it just gave me that real horrible headache. But it is I'll go in for sort of between maybe a minute if it's a quick day, and it is just getting that breathing under control, up to about four minutes, depending on. I don't really buy into much of the one minute per degree. I don't I don't think that's necessary. I think it's getting to that spot. When I first did it, I used to make sure I'd have my heart rate on my watch, and I'd go until my heart rate got beyond a certain point, below a certain rate. But it's it's now actually if I can control that, especially with a head dunk, I can come out and control the panic and I can get my breathing back under control for a good few rounds of breath, then I've done what I need to do.

SPEAKER_02 39:54

So it's yeah, sort of a minute and a half to four minutes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

Yeah, yeah. And again, it's that sweet spot, but if you can if you can push yourself, some people at first muscle as well, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:13

And it's I'd say if you're starting out, always have a cup of tea ready. And it's that that warm drink afterwards, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Always have inside. No.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

Yeah, it makes a difference. But I don't think you should have your coffee before. I think it's called the afterwards.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

Your core temperature can continue to drop after you get out. So actually having that warm drink can prevent that from happening.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

Ah, okay. You've mentioned breath work there. How do you combine breath work if you're meditation or anything like that?

SPEAKER_01 40:57

It's not traditional meditation, I wouldn't say, but I can't say that it's not a meditation at the same time. Um in terms of my breath work, it is simply in through my nose for two, I hold for about four to six, and then taking as long as I can to exhale. And then when I'm in for longer and it's maybe slightly warmer, it will be inhale, hold for as long as comfortable, long, slow exhale out through the mouth, hold for as long as comfortable, and it's then just really getting that sort of that breathing rate down, that heart rate down, just to really go into that sort of real presence. And I think that's where I don't I don't traditionally meditate, but there is something that movement meditation of one foot in front of another or just focusing on the breathing and thinking about nothing else, which is what meditation is, isn't it? So it's not typical sat cross-legged on the floor with candles burning, but it is it's that pure like a presence in that moment, and I think that's the biggest thing for cold water. I've got a I think it's my pinned video on my page that is explaining what that does for me, and it is just that silence, that brain noise, all of this stuff just stops as soon as I'm under the water.

SPEAKER_02 42:28

Yeah, yeah.

unknown 42:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

Yeah, you can help but be present, can you? You can't you're not worrying about what's happened, you're not living in the past, you're not worrying about the future. Uh yeah, you're just you're just trying to breathe and and survive and and be in the moment. But that's what's so yeah, it's um it's so strange as well, because it plays all these tricks on your mind where your mind's trying to talk you out of it, and then and then you're in the water, you're submerged, and you're fighting to stay in there. And then it's like the noise and everything just stops and it clears and you start to get used to the temperature, and it's just like oh yeah. Yeah, it's it's very hard to explain. And people a lot of people do say to me that I'm crazy for doing it every morning before after a run, but not at all. Again, it's one of those things that if you haven't done it, I don't think you can really understand it for five years ago.

SPEAKER_01 43:20

If you told me that forget the running, but if you told me I'd be consciously going and sitting in a giant paddling pool filled with cold water every morning, I'd think you were having me on, but it's yeah, been a staple part of the day.

SPEAKER_02 43:33

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:37

One of the great bits of advice you gave me, Will, was the socks and the gloves. When you first told me, I was like, Well, isn't that cheap, but it's not really because it's core temperature that you want to get back to.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

And I was like, Yeah, alright, they're not gonna do anything. And um one of my I teach spin classes, and one of my spinners had ordered a pair of sea swims with the Coast Guard. Um, but they were too small for him. And he got them on a Black Friday deal. It was like, Look, I don't want anything for him, but try them for your pod. And immediately the difference it made, I couldn't believe. I was showering from the rooftops to everybody like you've got to try this. And then that was my first year, and Then winter hit, January came, and the temperature continued to drop, and it was actually a real dull ache inside my ankles and in my foot that was stopping me from staying in. So I I got those because there was times where I was like, I've got to get out after 30 seconds because I'm in pain. Um, so I bought literally just the cheapest pair I could find on Amazon, and that went from being 30 seconds to back up to three minutes just for this little bit of neoprene. And whether there might be purists that say you shouldn't do it, it's cheating. It's whatever. I'm still in for that means I can stay in and get my fix to three minutes rather than actually there's only so many days you can be in pain doing something before you stop doing it. And yeah, that little voice is gonna win, and then you're just giving it more ammo to say, well, it hurt yesterday.

SPEAKER_02 45:23

And it's yeah, it's getting rid of all of that. Again, excuses, get rid of them.

SPEAKER_00 45:35

Yeah, yeah, it's um it it makes it that little bit more comfortable, but if you're still getting getting what you want out of it and it's making it bearable, and you're actually gonna do it, then of course, of course, you're gonna do it. You're gonna you're gonna put that hat on, you're gonna wear the gloves, you're gonna put the socks on. I used to see people down the beach in in out in in these outfits, and and I was there with just my trunks on and I was like, you know, what's wrong with you? Why aren't you hardcore? But yeah, I definitely go in a lot more now, and yeah, and you don't dread it as much. I do. And like you said, it's they're only thin, but they make a massive difference. It's a it's been a real difference. It's been a game changer. So moving on, Will, how do you balance being a dad of two? I think with all this self-care and training first. How do you juggle it?

SPEAKER_01 46:26

Like I could easily say, well, I get up at this time, and I know I've mentioned getting up in the four o'clock and whatnot, and that's natural that's just organically happened. However, I think it's like that analogy of being on an aeroplane, isn't it? In that the masks come down, you sort yourself out first. And it's there is the guilt of, well, actually, I'm spending there's been times where we've had to move runs around to accommodate us or gone out for two hours on a Sunday afternoon. Like that's peak family time. But it's getting rid of that guilt from it, in that actually, if I was going out in a more socially acceptable way, and I was going out just before bedtime on a Saturday night and coming back in at 3 a.m. and not being good for anything, not waking up until lunchtime, not wanting to communicate, being sick as a dog, that has lost more than 24 hours from that. Whereas actually taking an hour here and there, if you can build it into the workday, brilliant. But it is for me, it's naturally occurred that with kids' clubs, with my wife's social life and work with mine, it's just gravitated towards actually this is a perfect time. I love going out at five o'clock, I'll get it done. There's nothing more smug than knowing that you've done a six-mile run before anybody else has woken up. But I'm I'm seeing more and more posts on Instagram in the last two weeks of dad saying my 5 a.m. looks like this, so that my 5 pm can look like this. And it is actually I think it's when it's important enough, when the pain of staying the same gets worse than the pain of change. That's when it yeah, when it's gonna sort of come in, and whatever that catalyst is. Like I say, mine was peer pressure running a 10k, and then foolishly going, Oh, I've got a nice medal, and that being it, but uh now I'm just chasing that high every time. I've already got three more book this year just for the medals limitation.

SPEAKER_02 48:42

Oh wow, okay.

SPEAKER_00 48:44

It's um, yeah, it's it's um you need to be you need to be you just had need to have a good plan, I think. You need to because obviously when you're spinning spinning all these plates, when you're wearing all these different hats, you can't just wing it and say, right, by the way, I'm gonna and it's about communicating with with your partner, with your wife, or whatever it might be, I think, and and letting your kids know that this is what I do. But if you've got to go to bed a bit earlier and get up a bit earlier, then it's again that's the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

But what do we really lose is um between the hours of 9 30 and 11 o'clock at night? What's really lost? It's that scrolling through your phone, looking at reels, watching another episode or something. Don't get me wrong, I fall into the trap. We were saying yesterday, actually, we've been going to bed later than normal this week. And actually, I think the sweet spot is packing up around 9 30, being in bed for 10 o'clock. But it is yeah. It's but it is it's like, well, actually, that is I could probably white knuckle it and go to bed at 11 o'clock and get up at half past four, but I've only got so many weeks or months of doing that before the wheels come off. And it's so it's realistically, what is there what are you missing out on that's not gonna be there the next morning if you go to bed that bit earlier? So it's and I think I used to really I used to work like two to ten shifts in the gym and I'd get home at half ten and I'd say, well I've got to I've gotta unwind, I've got to chill for a bit, I can't just go straight home from work and go to bed because that's I've not had any of my time at the end of it. So then it's midnight before you go to bed, but realistically I'd have been a lot better the next day had I just gone to bed.

SPEAKER_02 50:37

Gone through. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

I think sleep's so important, isn't it? Sleep and nutrition, which we're gonna get onto in a minute. But you've um you've mentioned your kids a few times. How's it how do they react then to your running and your your cold water dips?

SPEAKER_02 50:56

Yeah. Are they curious?

SPEAKER_00 50:57

Are they proud, or do they think you're mad? Because my kids think I'm think I'm mental going on these cold dips and coming at come coming in from the cavity door in the morning, filming myself. They like to go.

SPEAKER_01 51:09

They were obviously a couple of years younger when I was doing the videos, and there's a number of videos where you can see them looking through the blinds and sort of my youngish running in front of the camera and doing stuff. Um there's been times where they've gone, I'd like to give it a go, and they've got in and stood up in it and been lifted straight back out of it. Yeah, um, they just they now take it as yeah, dad sits in a bucket of cold water daily. Yeah, it's sort of normal for them, or they'll see the the famous blue towel and the grey poncho come out and they'll go, Oh, you're going for a dip. And it's it's just normal. The same as they're used to now coming downstairs and seeing me stretching in the living room because I'm back from a run. It's my youngest has started doing the junior park run nearby, it's a 2K on a Sunday. She loves that. My oldest is she doesn't like running, but she signed up to the cross country as a competition locally. So I I think it's for me, it's showing them that you can do difficult things and that your perception of stuff can change. I always talk about how hard London was, the 10k. And they when they can, they come along. So I was wasn't expecting them to come along to watch at London, but it meant the world that they did. Um then they came to the half marathon that I did last year and the one I did last weekend. And even though I know they're there, and it's getting easier and easier to do these things, they're not as big of a challenge as they are. Don't get me wrong, I'm pushing hard, but they're not as stressful. No matter when I see them around the course, usually within the first two minutes of starting, it ruins me. I am sets me off. I'm crying, always overwhelms me with emotion, and then seeing them again coming back to home straight the last two minutes without foul wipes me out. Um and it's it is just pride that they they make me feel like knowing that I'm doing it for it is for me, but it's to show them and try and set examples for future. It's yeah, it is just hoping to instill in them that actually you can do things that don't seem like you can do them.

SPEAKER_00 53:28

Yeah, it's uh being that positive role model is uh is is is so important. I I remember when I I kept on trying to break the four. Um I was trying to do a four-hour marathon and I and I failed three or four times and I kept on my first one was like five hours and then I was slowly getting closer and closer. And when I finally did it, I I'll never forget. I I come back and I hug the kids and I said, There you go, kids. I said that that's just proved if if you keep on trying, if you keep on going, you can get there in the end, just never give up. And uh yeah, they were probably too young to remember anyway, but but I'll never forget to say it to them. And like you said, it's pride, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 54:16

I think it's very easy to get sort of lost in that and compare as well. Like the obviously I'm seeing more of it because I was more engaged to the running content and the running community online now, but you see all of these like ridiculous speeds that people are doing stuff in, and you can you can come back thinking I've done this distance today, but someone's gone out and done double that, but it is sort of yeah, knowing that it is a solo endeavour, it's not about what other people are doing, and actually the support I get from people that are significantly more accomplished is incredible. It's sort of I know people that are doing uh aiming for sub threes and uh sort of coming in the top 20 of local events and they're like, Yeah, you're doing really well. Well, actually that is incredible.

SPEAKER_02 55:11

They say it more than people you actually know, and yeah, it's yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:21

I think it's because they know what it takes and they've been where you are, they've been they've been there before, and so they really appreciate what you're doing. Whereas most of your friends and family, they won't really understand what you're doing. They think you're a bit mad. Yeah. Yeah, it's um yeah, it's a really good point. And that comparison thing, I I was exactly the same. I would always compare myself to people that were faster than me. And I was always trying to break that that four four hour yeah, rubber sub um runner sub four marathon. Um and then I was always trying to run a sub two half marathon, I remember. But uh yeah, it's um yeah, it's a tough thing. And when you're younger, you don't really understand it because you're like you've done cross country, you've done running with the school or whatever in pin. And you and most kids hate it, don't they? But yeah, when you're yeah, when you get older and it's it's like a therapy, is it is like a meditation, like you were saying before, and whether you're listening to a podcast, whether you're listening to nothing, you can zone out and it's your time.

SPEAKER_01 56:22

It is same as the whole running and you feel free, don't you?

SPEAKER_00 56:25

It's hard to explain.

SPEAKER_01 56:27

And until they get it, they're not gonna yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:35

Exactly. So how has your approach to nutrition has that changed much since you're organised and planned throughout a week?

SPEAKER_01 56:47

I don't know if that's combining with being running and being sober or whether I was just growing up and becoming more of an adult, but it is sort of we eat really good home cooked meals 90% of the time. And it's maybe on occasion there's like we'll have a takeaway, or we'll go out for dinner or we'll do something, but it is I think I've become more mindful of what I'm gonna get from what I'm putting in my body now, and it's yeah. It does, and now that I'm sober as well, it was leading up to our wedding. I thought I developed a dairy allergy and I looked into it, and apparently at the age of 30, you can have these changes that can make it. However, probably six, seven months ago I tried to introduce some dairy in and I had no problem whatsoever. And even admittedly, I was never strict with it. It was cheese was always fine, chocolate was fine, but it would be milk. If I drank milk, that would flatten me. But now I look back and I realise that it was actually just the stress of planning a wedding, trying to accommodate a family where it's very my family is very divided, I've got parts that really don't get on, but they both get on with me. So it's trying to sort of battle the stress of that, which actually caused the allergy or the intolerance. So I think now being aware of that is another indicator that if I'm having this and these things flare up as something that shows that might be something going on underneath. But no, it is I'm seeing I'd say I see food much more as fuel now rather than just eating what I fancy.

SPEAKER_02 58:33

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:38

Yeah, and it affects your energy. It affects your energy, it affects your mood. I think when you go sober and you start getting into mindfulness and fitness, you become more self-aware and you uh you really dial down. Uh if you get a headache, if you feel you know, if you're in a low mood or whatever, you can you can look back and say, right, what have I done? Have I not drank enough water? What did I eat an hour ago? How did I sleep last night? Obviously, we've got sleep traffic. Oh, absolutely, and it is that as well.

SPEAKER_01 59:11

It's but it's I think just becoming more self-aware, I think. Had I drank two litres, had I had coffee, when did I have coffee, and it would be that would probably once even when I've gone sober for the first year, coffee was a a big one for me. I'd I like a good coffee, a strong coffee, but we'd at work we'd make one, whoever got in first would make a cafeteria, and then we'd have an admin slot at 10.30, we'd make another one, and then there'd be another admin slot at about half two, so we'd have one then as well. And then admittedly, I'd probably game quite late into the evening and I'd be really alert and sort of wired. But then it's now if I've not had a coffee before 11 o'clock, I'm not having one. And it's that is then just that impact that that's had on my sleep, and doing these other things like not again, gaming and things like that, just moving them earlier so they're done by nine o'clock, so it isn't impacting that other stuff. Yeah, absolutely. And it's so I think the biggest one that was surprisingly easy for me is my phone charges in the living room overnight.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a really big one. I I was actually on a call with a client last night and we were talking about taking your phone out of the bedroom. I've literally just put my uh um an alarm clock on my bedside table. I'm really trying to do it at the moment because uh obviously it's not just when you're scrolling on your phone before you go to bed, it's when you get up in the morning, isn't it? No. You're gonna sponge your dopamine, you're gonna it's just you just don't need to do it. You need to you need to unwind and then you need to really work your way into the day as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:55

Or concerned about it on both sides. I bought one of the um sunrise alarm clocks that lights the room up because for the first time since we got together and lived together, we were both now able to get up at the same time each day. So it wasn't a disturbance for one or the other. Admittedly, I don't even use it now. I'm at a point where it's I'm gonna wake up at this time and within the space of ten minutes, I'm usually waking up naturally at the time I want to. But yeah, putting the phone in the living room unbelievably simple. It forces me to read. Um, although I'd read before, but it'd be I'd watch videos until whatever, and then I'll go, right, I better read because I've journaling that I've got to read this many books this year. So it'd then just spike it all back. Whereas now, getting to bed, my sleep hygiene is so much better in that without fail I could probably fall asleep within 10 minutes at any given point if you just give me some quiet. That's much easier.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:57

It's more of a skill now rather than the body shutting down.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:08

Yeah, yeah. So it's I've listened to so many podcasts on self-development, obviously, over the last few years. And Chris Williamson from uh Modern Wisdom has been going on about it quite a lot in uh recently in the last year. So it's definitely something that I'm gonna start doing now. Uh I think sleep has been such a massive thing for me. Obviously, nutrition's been a big thing since I've been since I've gone sober, but that my sleep quality and my sleep hygiene, having that sleep, having that tracker really showed me with my heart rate variability. I've said I've mentioned it met so many times on here, it's been it affects so much, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:49

I remember the first time I it's very, very it sounds like painfully simple, but it's like I went to bed like two hours earlier and you have that much extra sleep. And I was like, that's weird. I've woken up at six o'clock, but I feel like I've had a lay-in. But it's it's you and then you're like, right, so if I just go to bed earlier, I could feel like this all the time. It's just baffling. But it's like, well I'm a grown-up, I can stay up as late as I want.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:14

But actually no. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:25

They say, don't they, that you should have an an alarm to go to bed, not wake up. So you have an alarm, and and that has been a real big big thing for me, actually, having that reminder. And it sounds stupid like you just said, but it's not, is it? It's just that reminder, right, I really should go to bed now, otherwise I'm not gonna feel as good if I don't go now. And yeah. So moving on to uh back to sobriety will.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:51

What was any I think what's the toughest temptation or situation was we went away for a wedding and we went to a beautiful wedding in Sicily for one of my wife's friends. It's it's difficult. I don't socialise very well. I always used to need a drink to sort of feel myself. Yeah. Um, and it was actually one because yeah, like I said, I was quite a nervous, introverted, shy person. Never really had a huge sense of self when I was younger. I tried to very much a people pleaser and a lot of other sort of masks that sort of came on through childhood, which again, like I said at the start, I've learned over the last two years. So it was actually I was never confident being myself, and that was the biggest fear. I was like, out of all of the guests that we knew that or that my wife knew, and her friends that were going, I knew two of them. I know another couple, but and the bride. But anyone else that was staying at this hotel that we were at didn't know. There was open bar, free bars at all of the events over the three days, and it was so tempting to just think, do you know what? I've done my year. I could have a few drinks, I could just have this weekend to do this, and then I can go back to it. In the end, that was that voice, and then what I realized that is even better than me getting drunk to a point where I feel like I can be myself, it's everybody else is gonna get drunk to a point where I can say what I want and they're not gonna remember. Yeah, and actually, there's all of the all of the reward without any of the the risk from it. Like you're gonna get to a point where I can be myself and I'm not gonna feel shit about it tomorrow. Um, I think the first night out was a worry after in my year sobriety, but that was after I realised that I wasn't going back, and again, it was just that simple I was ready for all of the things to be said. I was a big laddie night out for a friend's birthday. I was ready for arm driving, or because I don't want to get a gut like you've got, or all of these sort of things that I could say, and then yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's another plan, isn't it? You've got a mental. However, you've got a list, haven't you? As long as you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:23

Will come at some point. And I broke one of my golden rules. It was about one o'clock. I knew it was going to be a late night. I had a black coffee. It was after lunchtime. But I was there and they brought the drinks over. And there was like pints and shots. And then I was like, right, who's the black coffee? And I was like, yeah, that's mine. And I looked, and my mate's brother's a prison officer, big guy, and he just turned around and looked at me and raised an eyebrow. I was like, I'm tired. Do you want me to fall asleep later on? And that was it. And then when it came on later on, what are you drinking? I'll just have a lime and soda water, please. Oh, are you driving? And it was there. I could have said yes, but I went, no, I don't drink. And that is a statement. It is a full stop. There is no, I'm not drinking for a year. I'm not drinking at the moment. It is I don't drink. And they're like, alright, fair enough. And they just carried on. Which doesn't always happen. It is usually the drinkers that have got the biggest problem with the person that's not drinking.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:20

Oh, brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:22

But in these, again, I was fortunate to be with a group of people that I could be myself with. But it was yeah, just actually not opening any there was no debate, there was no discussion, it is I don't do it. And yeah. I mean I've been on the other end of it over the years, and I've been one of those people, what's the matter with you? Why don't you drink? Um, or are you on antibiotics? Or is it like no, it was we've all been there. Yeah. Yeah. But actually, yeah, I've I've found since you say I don't drink. It's opened some conversations. I've had some really quite deep conversations with strangers about why. Um and especially when you meet another person that is sober, and uh as as well if it's another grey area drinker rather than someone that's an addict. Yeah. I'd said to again the sober rebel when I went on that, it took me so long to not feel like an imposter in this space because it's in a world where I could take it or leave it, I left it. Whereas for a lot of other people it is a life and death situation.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:38

And but actually I think it's like I've said, is I don't think it it shouldn't be a problem for it to be a problem.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:49

And yeah, but if you can nip it in if you've got that much self-awareness that you can nip it in a bud before it gets out of hand. Absolutely, and I think it's I wouldn't change anything about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:04

It's just brilliant, isn't it? I think what how rich and full life is now for the sake of a few nights out a year.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:24

Yeah, it's it's chapters in your life, isn't it? I think it served a purpose back in the day. Like you said, it is a social lubricant. I I think when you're younger, um you want to fit in more and you and you cave into peer pressure a lot more, you want to fit in with the crowd. Whereas when you get older you get more set in your ways and the hangovers get worse as well, and there's just lots of different things in there. Because uh a lot of people still say to me, Why don't you drink? And it's like, how long have you got? There's so many different things.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:52

And it's I think it's not just one the last time I It's never just one thing, is it drinking was at this same guy's birthday the year before, and all of the habits I track if I read, if I did my cold water therapy, if I exercised, if I drank two litres, all of those things were all disrupted for at least a week after that night. So all of these tools I put in place to really make sure my mental health is as resilient and as robust as it can be, they start to falter for one night. And again, why would you why would you do it?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:28

But it's it's the domino, it's the domino effect, it affects so many things, doesn't it? When you start drinking when you're when you're younger, when you're a teenager, there's so many pros to it, and then it just sw it swings the other way. The pros and the cons, they're they're kind of it's a C-Saw effect, I think, as you get older. And in the end, so many people like us they're wondering, is it worth it anymore? It's really not worth it. So yeah, just it's better rather than trying to moderate, it's better just to cut it out altogether and and level up in so many different departments of your life. So much more productive. Um, you got so much more time, so much more clarity. It's uh yeah, and yeah, I've been sober over a year now, and I think so clearly now. I I didn't get that brain fog. Uh and I was talking with people on a holiday a couple of uh only a couple of weeks ago, and I was saying I just even even though I sometimes it was only once or twice a week I was drinking, I was binge drinking, but it would affect it would affect me so many days after still. It I think it takes three or four days to get out of your system, doesn't it? Um but yeah, yeah, um for me that um they say they call it the pink cloud, don't they? That good that good feeling you get after. That has carried on for so long for me. I know a lot of people say it dies down after so long, but um yeah, I think if you if you mix it in with all the other things that we've been talking about, cold dips, um running, eating well, sleeping well, and I think it's then it is about just reframing what it means to live a life.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:10

I think I think sometimes it's it's like you've said before, people say about how boring it is, but how boring is it really when you're hearing the same story again. But it's I think it is actually I can't remember where I heard the quote, but it is when they say about living the same year 70 times and calling it a life, isn't isn't what we should be doing. I'd I'd be devastated if I looked back in 10 years and I'm the same person in ten years' time as I am now. I love where I am now, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:49

Yeah, yeah, there's a famous quote from uh Muhammad Ali uh that says, if you're still the same person after ten years, then you've wasted ten years of life.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:59

Yeah, it's how different I am since going sober, or since that start of 2020, two different people. And it's actually looking back to two years ago, a completely different person.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:14

And it is it's incredible because God knows what it's gonna be like in another five years' time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:25

Yeah, it's exciting, and when I speak to old family and like old friends now and and family, and there's a lot of negativity, a lot of doom and gloom. You know, we're middle-aged, everything's going wrong now. And I'm the opposite. I've completely turned my life around and I'm excited about the future. You're optimistic, and uh and that's what it gives you. I think you're always looking forward, you always got another goal to set. Yeah, it makes you feel alive, but again, it's one of those unteachable lessons. You've got to you've got to do it yourself to really appreciate it. And and when people try and preach to me about sobriety who haven't done it, I it's like saying to them, you know, if I did your job that you do every day, if I started giving you advice on on what you do every day, you'd say, Well, what are you talking about, Luke? He said, You haven't got a clue what you're talking about. I said, Well, don't don't lecture me on sobriety then. I said, if you've been sober for a good year, like you said earlier, give yourself a year, three months at least, to really see how how how you're gonna feel, then you might understand. But yeah, it it it's been really tough for me. I've spoken about it before many times about not being so self-righteous. I think that probably is tough, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:36

It does other than that, easier the longer it goes on, and that you don't it's it's brilliant, and I think everybody should at least try. And I I look back, I never used to do sober January or dry January because my birthday's at the end of January, and heaven forbid I go through a birthday without having a bit. It just makes no sense. However, it's I don't think one I think you can white knuckle a month even if you've got an issue, you can really get through a month without dealing with anything. I think for me a year was a good amount, and that it seemed it seemed long enough to actually be a challenge. For me, because I go out a few times a year, I could I could get away without drinking if I did it for three months or six months, but actually a year meant social events, Christmas, birthdays, other things, and actually getting through those, and then really the first podcast I went on, I was six months sober, and they asked if I'd go back to it, and I think I'd I said I'd quantify why I wanted a drink. If it was a case of actually it'd be really nice to have a glass of wine at with this meal, let's do this, then yeah, I might go back to it, but now there is no instance in life, no scenario I could imagine being in where having a drink would be would make it better. And it's I think it takes a while to get to that, and the year for me was the sweet spot.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:11

Um I work with a a colleague of mine. She her year was five years. She said, I'm not gonna drink for five years. It is, and it's um like when I first met, I was like, that makes my one year that I've done look stupid. However, she then got quite anxious leading up towards the end of year five. She thought what was people have been counting down to this. People know that I'm gonna I can drink again. And then the date came and it went, and it's now seven years, and it's sort of you get that thing of it being such such a big deal, then it's not. And I think it gets to a point where people just accept that you don't do it. And you get to a point where you realise that actually there will be seeds that are planted and some people start to see it a bit more and other people just won't see it until they're ready to to see it. Same as starting exercising, eating better, quitting smoking. But yeah, I think again the sober space is quite a good one in that no one's gonna go, well, I'll just say. It is always that support of like, do you know what? Fall down eight times, stand up nine. And it is that something something will click, there'll be something that works. Yeah. But I think definitely at least six months is what we should be trying to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:49

Really see.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:54

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, six six months. Three three months at least, I would say, definitely. Yeah, I I just remember after three months uh just feeling just lighter and more energy, and I was like, oh my god, I feel like a teenager again. Um yeah, and that that that pink cloud was was well in truly there. Uh if you could give yourself, yeah, your younger self then, Will, any any advice, what would it be looking back on? That's a difficult one to what we've discussed tonight.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:27

Because there's so many different uh avenues to comment on.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:33

However, yeah. Well starting.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:40

I think the biggest one is it gets better. Life doesn't need to be as complicated as it seems. Yeah, it's I think it's going through teenagers being in a like a fight or flight survival mode. Um very and again, that was when I started drinking, 13, 14. Um and I thought that's just normal. But then as I've got more sober, or sober for longer, you then realize, well, actually at that same time this was going on in my home life, and then actually I was just escaping from that, and I was self-medicated, and then you see actually, so knowing that it gets better, uh, the people that are meant to be there are meant to be there. And it's absolutely and it's sort of you look back and there's other people that have not got out of those situations. Um, but it is yeah, I think that is the biggest thing. I'm involved in a a men's group as well, and it's uh it's on WhatsApp group chat of just of men. Um we meet up every month or so and do a video conference and sort of check in. Yeah. Um, it's been quite quiet recently, but then as soon as something comes in with a problem or something dramatic happening in life, the amount of men that don't know each other that are rallying around and providing this vulnerable open support is ridiculous. And I think having that space, um working with like a mentor in that space to look at all of these other things, um, yeah, and sort of reading a couple of books and looking at what childhood trauma actually is and the small tea trauma side of things, and yeah. Again, had it not been for sobriety, I wouldn't have looked into those spaces, I wouldn't have thought about it. Um certainly wouldn't have been involved in them.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:40

Yeah, I think so it gets better is and I think that's true for every aspect in that.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:50

I probably there was a point where I didn't think I'd see 38 let alone actually have a family of my own to be happy and have everything materialistically, absolutely, that I've got, but spiritually and emotionally, the world that I'm making for my kids, never thought that'd be possible from where I was as a teenager.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:21

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:24

This two shell pass is a good one. Everything's temporary, and it really sounds like you're on the right trajectory now, you've got you've you've got goals, you're being that good role model, you're moving in the right direction.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:37

Yeah, I think it was just with the blinders on, just looking at what was in front of you. Focusing in far too far into the future, far too much into the past, but not seeing anything. And it's now I think the awareness has come with sobriety, come with the work, yeah, has been horrible. Don't get me wrong, there's certain parts of my life that I've then completely reframed and thought, actually, wow.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:59

But it then makes everything else a lot more worthwhile.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:12

Are there any books or podcasts?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:15

I'm gonna recommend for anyone well in the realm of hungry ghosts by Dr. Gabomate and is sort of sort of looking at the connection between addiction and childhood issues, and how there's a all of this, and that sort of planted the seed for me at first. Yeah, I think that's the that's the main one that sort of really made sense to me. There was another one I found really interesting. Again, it's more from a trauma response side of things, but it's uh quite an in-depth, long, but science-heavy book, but it's called The Body Keeps the Score. Yeah, by it was at Professor Van der Koop. That was fascinating. Blew my mind how that something as simple as real stressful situations can genetically and biologically change a person that to the point they can pass it on to their children. Phenomenal.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:13

And it's yeah, that's right. Sort of trauma can be passed on. At first, you then become even more stressed about being a parent and how much significant things that could change. But actually, yeah, I think for me they were the two that really made the most sense with where my headspace was at those times.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:40

What does the next chapter look like for you then, Will? And where can people connect with you on personal um yeah, your social notes, anyway, mate?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:49

More running, seeing how fast and far we can go. A guy I know in the men's group pointed out that there was we're a similar age, and he was like, at this point, it's about thousand a thousand days until we hit 40. And at first my new jerk response was, but then I sat with it and actually I realized I'm less worried about turning 40 than I was turning 30. And I think that's just with that settling in, becoming myself more not caring as much. However, I was like, right, marathon. I want to do a marathon before 40. So I've got until January 2028 to get the marathon ticked off. So lots more running, lots more running, lots more eyes, but yeah, really sort of pushing on from that. So the name on everything sounds very different when I say it's chili willy runs, but it's chili.will dot e dot runs.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:44

Yeah. Because you know, Will Edwards, cold, and I'm running.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:49

But yeah, they're there. I think for me. Yes. Yeah, yeah, both of those, same handle on both. And that's on Instagram and TikTok. Will and content on both. But it's yeah, that's where it goes continuing with the running. I've got a couple of strangely like brand ambassador things coming up where I'm starting to advertise products uh places. Yeah, it's all it is all really this year is seeing how far and fast we can go. I've got I did a massive personal best in Cambridge Half Marathon this weekend, and then I've got Ipswich Half Marathon in September for see how much better I can get it. And then I've got a couple of local 10Ks between now and then as well to keep me ticking out.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:40

Yeah, nice mate. It's exciting times, but we were speaking just before we started recording, and I was just saying about injuries because I used to suffer a lot of injuries, but I think I think my technique was all over the place. I was running distances that I shouldn't have. I was told to be a bit of a good thing. Well, I I think I so um I won one of those competitions that I was convinced no one wins.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:59

One of the like and comment on this post. Um and I won a beautiful pair of bright pink trainers that my oldest daughter hates. Oh, okay. Um I won entry to Cambridge Half just gone, but then I won four months coaching with this guy called Liam. And I like I said, I've worked in fitness, I've got sort of various levels of fitness qualification from the last 20 years. But I really bought into it, I was like, right, tell me what to do, take my thought out of it, and I'll just follow it. And I followed it to the letter. I had one week off where I was ill. Um yeah, but it's been incredible, and actually, it's made me a lot more robust. My recovery routines after and my warm-up sessions before have got a lot more consistent, and my slow sessions have got a lot slower as well, which is something that I was never very good at. I wouldn't take an easy run, but now it's the two easy ones are read. So I I feel really good and really confident for what's coming next.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:12

No, it's exciting times. Thank you so much, Will, for coming on today, for sharing your wisdom, mate. Um, especially on the Cold Water stuff, because it's been a real game changer for me. Uh, like I was saying, my mood, my energy, my morning routine. And you were a part of that as well. Like the great advice that you've given me and the inspiration from uh all the social media stuff, mate. So thank you. Cheers, Will