Episode 13: No Safe Level: Jimmy Thistle on Alcohol, Binge Drinking & Living Sober...

In this episode of The Next Chapter, I’m joined by Jimmy Thistle — sober advocate and over five years alcohol-free — to rip into the myths we’ve all been fed about alcohol, recovery, and what a “normal” drinking life is supposed to look like.

Jimmy is the voice behind @recovery_jimmy and host of After Hours with Jimmy Thistle, creating a space rooted in honesty, recovery, and real conversation. He shares his journey with openness, offering insight, support, and connection to others walking a similar path.

As a peer mentor and someone training to become a sober coach, Jimmy brings lived experience and purpose to everything he does—whether it’s through his content or late-night podcast conversations that dive into the realities of addiction, growth, and staying on track.

We talk about why the idea of safe drinking is dodgy at best, how binge drinking can quietly do real damage, and the brutal self-deception that keeps people stuck in the loop of “I’m not that bad.” Jimmy shares his journey from addiction to recovery, the identity shift that comes with quitting, and how to build a support tribe that actually keeps you moving forward.

If you’re sober curious, trying to cut down, or you know deep down alcohol’s got more control than you’d like to admit—this one’s for you.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Jimmy Thistle and his mission
01:21 The dangers of alcohol and sobriety awareness
04:20 Myths about recovery and socialising
09:13 Understanding binge drinking and its effects
11:09 Recognising alcohol problems and self-deception
17:41 Jimmy’s journey: from addiction to recovery
30:04 The vicious cycle of addiction
33:31 Facing withdrawal and identity crisis
37:37 Finding comfort in solitude
41:10 The influence of society and media
45:54 Navigating triggers in recovery
51:42 The role of support groups
55:40 Spreading awareness and changing perspectives
01:00:18 Maintaining a positive mindset
01:04:53 Recognising early signs of alcohol dependency
01:07:10 Pride in sobriety and family
01:09:55 The dark side of alcohol
01:11:57 Finding your support tribe
01:21:02 Recommended resources for sobriety
01:22:40 Future aspirations and projects 

Connect with Jimmy at the links below...

• After Hours Podcast with Jimmy Thistle : https://afterhours.buzzsprout.com/

Social links:

• Instagram: @recovery_jimmy
• TikTok: @recovery.jimmy

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Share this with a mate who needs the truth, leave a review, and remember: change doesn’t happen by accident. 

It happens when you get honest, do the work, and show up for yourself and your family.

Stay real, stay relentless, and keep building your legacy—one choice at a time.

For more hard-hitting stories and practical tools, follow, subscribe, and join the conversation.

Let’s be real: your next chapter starts now...

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Hello everyone and welcome to today's episode. So today we have the big man himself, Jimmy Fistle, the host of the After Hours podcast, where I was a guest back last year. Since then, we've met up in person here on the Isle of Man a few times, more in the summer when the weather was a bit better, and it didn't take long to realise that we were both cut from the same cloth. We've both got the same passion, helping people quick booze, get their head right, and build a life that they're genuinely proud of. Not just on the outside, but at home as well. So if you're listening and you're thinking, I'm not that bad, but I'm not where I want to be either, then you're in the right place. This is going to be an honest conversation about what it really takes to change. So let's dive in. So, Jimmy, for anyone that doesn't know you, who are you and what is your mission now?

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Well, apparently I'm the big man, so I appreciate that. Cheers, Luke. Yeah, the big man himself, like that. Yeah, uh, punched above my station here. For people that don't know me, I am Jimmy Thissle, five and a half years sober, and just loving life. I mean, my mission, I would say, is, you know, I'm trying to get I'm trying to get the word out there, just how bad alcohol is. Do you know what I mean? That's the thing. Like when I first got sober, I was struggling like a lot of people, and just trying to get it there one day at a time and do that. But the more my sobriety kind of grows and the longevity of it, I'm doing the research and I'm learning more and more about alcohol and just the dangers of it. It's it's like obviously I want to help people that are struggling, but I'm trying to get a message out there that like there's you know, it was identified last year that there's just no safe level of alcohol. This this whole thing, a glass of wine a day and all that, it's just bollocks, it's not we're we're living in a kind of draconian love affair and have loyalty to this poison that is slowly killing the world. Like three million people died globally with regards to alcohol, you know, with it with cause and effect. So that's like, you know, 200 diseases, seven types of cancers, and not to mention like the domestic abuse murders and road traffic accidents. So it's just, you know, like the more I learn about it, the more I'm just like my eyes are wide open and I'm like, this, you know, like as I said, I said before, I'm not trying to outlaw it, I'm just trying to make people aware because I think the majority of people don't actually know quite how damaging it is to them. And that's the scary part, you know. Like, yeah, I was an alcoholic, I don't call myself that anymore because I'm not, you know, I'm not dependent on it, but I I think that we need to kind of a lot of people think, oh well, you know, I'm not that bad, and I was never that bad, and I have a few drinks and I know how to socialise, and it's like, yeah, but you can do all these things without alcohol, you don't need it, you know. So I think that was a bit of a long-winded.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

No, no, no, it's fine. No, it's all good. Uh there's um yeah, I'm I'm going away on a stag deal actually this weekend. So that's uh that's gonna be yeah, so I'm I'm gonna get this one quite a lot. Yeah. I st I still get it from people now about a wine that they say, oh no, a glass of wine for you. Is it red wine? They say something about um I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

The thing is, they're not getting the antioxidants from the alcohol, they're getting it from the grapes and the juice of the grapes, so they might as well drink a grape juice. Because the antioxidants they're getting from it are being killed by the alcohol anyway. So it's that there is that slight little thing that you're getting antioxidants, but you're getting it from the grapes, not from the alcohol. You're not getting it from the ethanol that you put in your cars. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Yeah, I think I I think I read the other day you'd um to get any goodness out of it, you'd have to drink like a thousand glasses or something, and and of course, all the damage you're gonna do to yourself is just a complete and and that was pushed by the alcohol companies, of course.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Yeah. So many myths that it's like, you know, the doctors in the old days used to say, Yeah, you know, a glass of wine, and I think pregnant women used to have Guinness instead of, you know, their genotonics because of the iron in it, and it's like, yeah, nah, but it's bollocks.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

So that's some of the myths about alcohol. What's the biggest myth people believe about recovery?

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Well, I think definitely that um that we're boring and that we don't do anything, and that we sit in a cave and and just like while away the hours until we're we're gone. So yeah. I mean, I think like I don't I don't I don't socialise as much as I used to, but then was I a social person or was I doing it just because I was drinking? And it was the answer is I was doing it because I was drinking. Like I like to socialise in small groups. If it's a huge big group at a party and all that, I'm not really interested in it. And the amount of people that I speak to actually don't enjoy that situation unless they're drinking. So if you were to do that without a drink, and it's like that whole thing, it's like nobody actually enjoys the parties, they only enjoy the booze that they're getting. And it gives you that kind of weird confidence, it gives you that force field around you, so you're you feel invincible in these big situations. But I think that is the myth that people are are boring when they don't drink, and it's like, well, hang on, how am I the boring one if you're the one that needs alcohol to have a good time? You know, do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 5:43

It's like, yeah, I think that's the biggest myth. It's definitely something that I've really struggled with. I've spoken to you about this before in person, I remember. Uh the being so self-righteous. But but I think for people like us who have been sober a while, especially you, it it's it's like the red and blue pill, isn't it, in the matrix? It's like you take like how can you not feel this good and and have such a life-changing experience and transformation and not want to sing it from the rooftops and let everyone know. It like you're never gonna if if it's affected you this this much and you feel this much better, then of course you're gonna want to tell everyone, you're not gonna keep it a secret, are you? But but but then just like I will be getting this weekend, I know they'll be saying, Oh, you're being judgy, you're looking down on us, blah, blah, blah, and it's just like, Wow, yeah, yeah. I hear you do it.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

Yeah. I mean, I try not to be judgy, and maybe, maybe some people think I am and preachy and all that, but like as you say, it's like when your eyes are wide open and like taking the red bill in the in the matrix, which I don't want to say anymore because of this stupid manosphere thing. Apparently, that's the kind of that's that's the the the the um the analogy that they you they use, so I don't want to use the matrix one anymore. But I'm like, I was saying it first anyway. The thing is, it's like I don't want to be preachy, but as you say, like when you know this stuff and you know that people aren't aware of just how much damage they're doing. Like, I think a lot of people think that because I was an alcoholic, I'm angry and I'm jealous because people can still drink. I don't want to drink. Like, people have asked me, like, oh, you know, and you'll probably ask me in a bit, like, what do I do? Like triggers and all that. I don't have triggers anymore because I'm just so done with it now that it's like, and I used to say back in the day when I was like doing any like never say never, one day at a time, and all that, and like absolute bollocks. I know I'm never gonna drink again because I know that there is nothing there for me. Do you know what I mean? And then the thing is, if I had a drink today, I'd be absolutely hammered on one, you know. Like I'd be I'd be like my 14-year-old self getting drunk on like two oranging uh vodkas. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

Yeah, my wife's the same, so she's she's cut down quite a lot. She still has the old glass, and uh, she says when she drinks now, she gets really dizzy straight away, and she's it's just because your body's not used to it, it can tolerate it. So I can't imagine what we feel like if we had a drink again.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

I would be flattened, I'd be on my back, you know what I mean? So yeah, it's uh it's not worth it. Yeah, but that that's the thing. Like because people like when I first drank, when you first drank, when any first drank, they would only it would only take a tiny amount for them to get drunk or get a bit tipsy, but obviously your drinking increases because you're building up a tolerance, and that is a dangerous thing once you start building that tolerance for alcohol because nobody drinks the same amount as they did when they first started drinking. They all drink more, and that is it's an addictive drug. So the more you do that, the danger the the danger, the more dangerous it becomes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

Yeah, good friends of mine have said uh about hangovers, they said they get worse as you get older, and people argue it's because you're getting older, but then I've had other friends that have said no, it's because you're drinking more, because you can tolerate more, so you drink a lot more. So there's so there's that side to it as well.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

But it's a badge of honour, isn't it? So if you can drink someone under the table, it's like, yeah, I can I can I can split the G and then down the pint and then I'm alright. And it's like, well, all right, well done you, man. Yeah, you know, I was I was drinking a bottle of vodka a day, but it doesn't make me happy.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

You know, it didn't make me happy. So for anyone listening, Jimmy, that are that have said that old classic line, I'm not that bad, what would be the first thing that you say to them?

SPEAKER_01 9:35

Well, it depends on the situation. If they're saying I'm not that bad to themselves in the mirror, then they're definitely that bad because they're already having that conversation, you know, with themselves. And I think like if someone says to them, Look what you did last night, you did this, and they go, and then it's like that that is that question is being brought up for a reason. And if someone is then answering, I'm not that bad, I think it's the same as that thing. If you think you've got a problem with alcohol, then you've got a problem with alcohol. If you're already having those conversations, then well, you might not be as bad as I was, like first thing in the morning before my eyes were even open and I was drinking vodka. But that was at the end. I'm not saying you have to be as bad as that, but if you're already having that question where you have to say, I'm not as bad as that, then, or I don't think I'm as bad as as that, then it's like, well, where do you draw that line? Like what is bad? Is it having a bottle of wine a night, or is it having, you know, a bottle of uh or a box of wine every weekend? Do you know what I mean? It's like it it's all different for different people. So yeah, you could have that old guy that that goes into the pub and he drinks, you know, ten pints and then he wanders home and he's fine, yeah, but like it's still pretty bad, you know, because what's what's that doing to him? What's that doing to his insides? But I think I think yeah, if you're already having that conversation, then you need to look at your own your own habits and your own drinking because it's all bad, but you know, I think that whole thing like with um what I was gonna say, like if if you're already thinking, yeah, yeah, you know, I just have these couple of beers and all that, that's fine. But if you're doing what the majority of people out there are doing and it's like, you know, drinking heavy at the weekend, maybe an odd beer, a glass of wine uh uh, you know, through the week and all that, that's still pretty bad. So yeah. But as I say, I think if you're having that conversation, then yeah, you need to have a look at your your habits and and have a word with yourself.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

I had someone on the podcast a couple of weeks ago and they were saying that uh uh the World Health Organization state that uh if you have more than two no, no, four, is it four units, and then it's class as binge drinking, and and that's that's just a standard session. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Well, I mean, what is four units?

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Like, is that a unit's a glass, a large glass of wine? Yeah, or a pint of yeah, or pints. Four pints four pints, yeah. That's I mean, that's not even a session. That's like No, definitely not. No. No, the amount of things drinking is crazy, then really. You go out with four mates and you do rounds, that's like an afternoon. So like and this is what I'm saying, like from my days, that's an afternoon. But yeah, if they're saying that's binge drinking, then it is. That's the problem though, I think. Binge drinking's a huge problem because people that they're not drinking all the time, but maybe once a month they'll go out with the lads or the ladies, and then they'll absolutely get smashed. Their liver is like taking an absolute pounding for that weekend. Their liver's not used to it, so they haven't even built like their liver going, Oh yeah, yeah, I get I get a bottle of wine a night or I get a glass of wine, you know, a night. It's like the liver knows what to expect, but then you're going out, you're not drinking for an entire month, and then you're pounding it with like an absolute belter of a session. Your liver is like, what the it doesn't know how to deal with all that in a time. So actually, binge drinking can be more damaging than someone that's just drinking solidly for a long time. There was a girl, she did a documentary, Hazel somebody, forgotten her name. She's Scottish, she did a BBC documentary, and basically she was doing that like every couple of months or so, going out with her girlfriends from uni. She had a she had a daughter, I think, and her husband, like nice, happy, married, wasn't drinking through the week or anything, just going out and binging. When she was about 30, 31, she was getting really tired, she went to the doctors and they did an LFT liver function test, and all of her enzymes were like sky high. And they said, if you continue doing what you're doing, you're gonna get cirrhosis in the next couple of years. And she was like, What? And the documentary's great, it's I can't remember what it's called, but I'll send you a link to it. It's like they went around all these different universities and like they went down to London and they set up like a little liver function test unit to like where all the bankers were and all that, and there was all these guys and women coming out and basically getting their livers tested, young people, and so many of them were just sky high. They felt fine, they were they were going to the gym and doing this, but their drinking was through the roof and their their enzymes were so high. All the all the nurses and doctors were like, You guys need to calm this down. And it was an eye-opener for them because they felt fine and they were like, My drinking's okay, but they weren't actually realizing how much damage they were doing to themselves.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

And a lot of it goes comes back to who you compare yourself to as well, I think. Because you're because you're always comparing it to someone that's worse than you. We do that treatment just to justify what we're doing and make us ourselves feel better about the amount that we're drinking, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

Absolutely. You go you go into a pub and you see the usals up at the bar and you're like, well, I'm not as bad as them. But it's like, well, how does that how do you equate to that? Do you know what I mean? You you you you're you're drinking to excess. And let's be honest, if the if the World Health Organization says more than four pints is excess, then you're already doing it. You know? They seem to be the only one that are kind of really driving the kind of stats and figures on this because our government doesn't seem to be giving a shit. They don't they don't seem to be caring and telling anyone like, listen, I know we're funding all this and we're letting these alcohol companies, you know, carte blanche and they're advertising and self-regulating, but these are the stats and figures. You have to go really hunting for it. Like, I mean, it's a lot easier now, but back in the day you had to go and like find these stats and figures down, you know, in the basement behind a cupboard. It's like it's mad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

But I think that's why the younger generation as well are definitely drinking less because there's all this there's well, they want to be healthy.

SPEAKER_01 15:34

Like I know we we we did want to be healthy, but we didn't know what health really was back in the day, because it was like, you know, eat your five a day, which I think that's bollocks as well. I think you have to be eating a lot more veg than that. But anyway, that was what we were told, and we weren't told anything about alcohol. Uh the only thing that I think as long as we didn't smoke, we were fine, you know. But now the kids are like, Well, you shouldn't have too much fish and this, and that's great, you know. I love all that. Like, get your whatever you eat is is doing you proud, but also what are you drinking? Why are you doing all this healthy stuff and then going out the weekend and just getting smashed and ruining it all?

SPEAKER_00 16:09

Yeah. Yeah. One of my good friends back in Bristol, he's he's literally just sent um put up a photo on his story on Instagram, and he's in David Lloyd Health Centre to just at a really big uh training session. And yeah, and there's just a pint of larger there, and he's having it in the sun, and I'm like, oh God, all that hard work. And but I was the same back in the day. I was running marathons and I was I was talking, I was talking about this the other day on uh on um on the same podcast that I just said about the binge drinking, and and we were and we dived deep into uh the recovery of people who do sports and endurance events and alcohol, just it is so bad for your recovery. I think it was it's between 30 and 40 percent, and and we went deep into what actually does to your body, and uh it's it's it's it's fascinating. But this is why I don't think a lot of professional footballers and all these athletes they don't drink for that reason because they want to be the best.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

Yeah, like the rugby players, you used to see them and they were they're I mean they're still big lads, but they were like proper, you know, they had a lot of fat on them because they were they were they were boozeing. Rugby is a massive booze in culture, but the players, I don't think the majority of them, they might they might have the odd one here and there, but that you look at them now and they're more they're much more leaner than they used to be. Um I mean they're absolute powerhouses, but it's like yeah, they're not they're not they're definitely not drinking like they used to do. Yeah. And as you say, I don't think footballers are because they're oh yeah, they'll go out on these mad binges and stuff, but they're not drinking through the week and they're not drinking when they're when they're training for a big game because but they used to come off. I think Georgie Best used to come off like at half time, and instead of having like, you know, slices of orange, he was he was he was necking whiskey.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

Yeah, and Gaza was doing the same.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Gaza was the same, that's that's right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

Yeah. So let's paint the picture then, Jimmy, to give everyone some context. What did a normal week look like back in the day when it was at its worst?

SPEAKER_01 18:03

When it was at its worst, so yeah. So I was living across in Hull and yeah, towards the end there, so I wasn't working, which I'd lost many jobs through through my kinetic. Not not like, you know, being caught drinking or anything like that, but just not performing and then jumping before I was kind of pushed. So I would say living at home, my ex and her kids would get up, like I would more often than not, because I wasn't sleeping. Like I was like I was saying, I was passed out, but I wasn't actually sleeping, and I would be waking up probably before them, come downstairs, um check all my little places where I'd be hiding it, um and if there wasn't anything in the house, depending on what time we had a twenty-four hour garage up the road from us, so I would be wandering up there. I'd been up been up there in my dressing gown, you know, get up to the shop, get myself a little half bottle of vodka before they'd even waken up, and then I could come home and I would pretty much finish majority of that before they would even wake, and then I could function, you know, I'd brush my teeth, do mouthwash, whatever. I could get them their coffee and their their breakfast and all that, then they'd go off to work, and then my day would just kind of consist of trying to like I knew it was bad at that point, so I would try and go, right, I'm not gonna drink that much today, but I'd already had a half bottle of vodka, so it was like, right, that's already wearing off, you know, now they've gone out of the house, so I'd be taking another trip up to maybe the other shop, get another half bottle or a bottle or whatever. So it was just it was a consistent thing. I'd be maybe looking for jobs or whatever, but I wasn't really interested. The evening would be like, you know, she'd get home and I'd be if if I was in a good state, then I'd be preparing dinner, you know. I could I could be compos mentis for the majority of the time if I if I'd if I played it right. Because at this point I was in withdrawal, look, and I needed it to function because otherwise, you know, I'd have the DTs or I would just be but but then sometimes I would I would just drink too much and I'd be passed out by the time they get home. But majority of the time I could I could I could function and I was doing alright, I'd be getting tea on. Um She knew that there was a problem, but I was like getting wine in and I'd maybe be saying, Oh yeah, I'm not drinking today, and I'd be mouthwashing and all that, and then I'd be like, Well, let's have a glass of wine tonight. So I'd get her a glass of wine and I'd be cooking with the wine. There'd be bot there'd be bottles of vodka in the bathroom hidden, so that would just be kind of ongoing. And you know, when I did have jobs as well, I mean there was times when I'd be, you know, temping or whatever, and I'd go out to my car at lunchtime to have my sandwich or whatever, and I'd be I'd be just having sips of vodka in there, go back into the office. Um, you know, some people might say, Oh, were you drinking last night or something like that? You know, and I would just brush it off because I'd had those conversations so many times that I was just, yeah, I was embarrassed and I had shame, but you know, I knew I needed it for my my kind of medicine. Other days, I would just go in I would just go and sit in my car. Like when I was when she thought I was working and I maybe didn't have a job or if I was just phoning in sick, I'd just go and sit in the car, not too far from the house, and I'd just sit in the car and just drink vodka all day long. Um I did I did like I did have shame and I did have remorse and I did know that it was an issue and that I wanted to get it, I wanted to get better, but I didn't know a way out, look. I just I just didn't know how to do it. Um I went to AA and I was like, oh I'm not as bad as them. So there's that question. Obviously I was definitely as bad as them, you know, I was worse than some of them. But it's a lonely thing because I didn't realise quite how I didn't know how to get out of it. And as much as I knew that, yeah, there was alcoholics and addicts around the world, but I thought I was the only one that was going through what I was going through because it warps your brain into this depressive state of like oh woe is me, and nobody gets my issues, and I'm only drinking because my life is so shit. My life was shit because I was drinking. Do you know what I mean? And it was like the more that I did that, it was that kind of you know, roller um uh hamster wheel of hell. Um so yeah, I just I didn't I didn't know how to get out of it um yeah until I did.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

It's a victim mindset, it just keeps you stuck, doesn't it? Yeah, you said the hamster wheel of hell, yeah. That's a good way of looking at it, the hamster wheel of hell. That is what it's like, you're just constantly on that loop.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

Yeah, and it's

SPEAKER_00 22:22

So hard to break out.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

And like if she'd woken up while I was hunting for my booze in the morning, I'm sure she probably did at some points, like I didn't care because I d I just so narrow-minded, so focused on I needed that because I needed that medicine. That's what like I basically called it. And it was because, you know, I would have gone into withdrawal without it. So I was like, it wouldn't matter. Like it was one time when like her dad was coming over from France and he'd sent over some wine because he was coming over to stay in an apartment and he'd sent this over, and we were and I and I was like, oh, because I maybe didn't have money or whatever, so I was like, oh, there's wine in the back of our car. You know, she hadn't brought it in the house for a reason, but I still they were upstairs, went out to the back of the car, you know, grabbed a bottle of wine, stuck it behind a sofa, um, and then they came down and yeah. But it was like I wasn't looking at the bigger picture, I wasn't like looking, well, I wasn't looking at where my health was going or anything like that, but I was only interested if I had a bottle in front of me, I was happy as Larry, I could get myself sorted, you know. Um it was bad.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

What were you using it for then, Jimmy? Was it we've spoken about confidence, was it to escape? Was it was it to sleep? You said you weren't sleeping, and that is a bit that is one of the big myths about alcohol. You've gotta you've gotta take it to sleep, but it's actually sedating you, it's making you pass out. Like you said, you're not getting real REM sleep. Or or was it just numbing out, or was it all of the above? What was it?

SPEAKER_01 23:48

It was numbing out, definitely numbing out. You know, we were we had been happy at one point, um, but we we had a miscarriage, and I kind of used that as an excuse to just kind of go into it. But I was already bad by that point, you know. I'd been using it, using it as confidence, using it as partying my whole life, but that was it became my identity, you know, it was just who I was. Um and I didn't realise quite how bad it had got until it had just completely taken control of me. It'd been doing that for a long time, but I didn't I just was brushing it off and I'd be just like, yeah, you know, I've got jobs and I'm doing this, and but everything that had gone wrong in my life over the years was to do with alcohol. And then towards the end it just it just you know it it just got control of me and uh yeah, I needed to get out of it because I wouldn't be here if I didn't, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

How many years were you in denial then, Jimmy?

SPEAKER_01 24:39

I would say the first time that it kind of raised its ugly head and I knew there was a problem was probably 2000 and I mean the first time I addressed it was probably about 2007 and I didn't get sober until 2020. So yeah. But it had been a problem before then as well. Like I had a I had a drink driving on my name, um, I lost jobs, I moved around a lot. It was yeah, it was always an issue, but I think that was the first time that I actually kind of did something about it for a while. But again, I did something about it, and then I was like, oh yeah, do you know what? I'm actually alright. I'm I'm not I'm not like the other ones, you know? And then and then I would I would kind of calm it down for a while and maybe get into fitness and like yourself running marathons and all that, but it was still always there, and it just took a couple of little things where I was using it as a tool, and then it just went nosedived, you know.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Yeah. You've spoken about h hiding the booze. Was there anything else you were hiding as well? What do you mean, like drugs or anything? Well, I mean it just was there anything else that that you weren't telling people, or was it Yeah, I mean I mean all sorts.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

Like, yeah, I mean there was there was money that I was borrowing off friends. Oh, okay. Yeah. I wouldn't be telling people, well, I wouldn't be telling my ex that like if I'd lost a job. I would tell her eventually. I wouldn't be telling her if I wasn't going to work and I was sitting in my car, like I wouldn't be telling her any of those things. Yeah, I was definitely not a not a trustworthy person. I'd told a lot of lies and a lot of like not like I wouldn't just make something up for the sake of it. It was all centered around my alcohol and and my addiction. Like anything that was to do with that, I I had to just you know, like if someone if like if my mum phoned me up and she'd be like, Have you been drinking today? And clearly I had been, she could hear me slurring and I'd be like, totally like, no, I have not been drinking. Like, how dare you and all that and get defensive? And it's like I'm just protecting the alcohol the whole time, you know.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Um and we lie to ourselves as well, don't we? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because like we've already touched on, it's the stories we tell ourselves, and we get really, really good at lying to ourselves. We sort of convince ourselves that what we're doing's right and we're not that bad because we're not as bad as so and so, and then reliance, relying to ourselves, relying to all these other people around us, and we just build this identity. Yeah, and uh yeah, it's just absolute madness.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

Yeah, it's weird how we protect this thing that's that's killing us, and it's the only thing that we see is well, I saw as my saviour. It was like because it did make me feel better for a short period of time because I couldn't get past that. Like I needed to dry out, I needed to detox, but I could I didn't know how to get make that jump to to do that because it was so it was so painful to do that. And I would I was just protecting it to the end, you know, right into the last minute. I was like, Yeah, alcohol is is my buddy, it's the only one that gets me. And it's like it's not even a thing, you know. It's like yeah, but I was it I was putting it above everyone else in my life, you know, which is just madness. Like my mum, bless my mum, she put up with so much, and I was putting alcohol in front of her, you know.

SPEAKER_00 27:57

I and you can only see it when you when you step back and you step away, but when but when you're in in that moment, when when you're in the thick of it, you're just yeah, you believe all your own bullshit, ain't you? Yeah, it's just a bloody mad. Yeah. So since 2007, then Jimmy, until 2020, like you said, did you try and moderate? Did uh did you stop many times? Did you keep on going back? Uh was it a death by a thousand cuts? Uh was it a slow burner? Um, was there a big rock bottom moment?

SPEAKER_01 28:26

I mean, there was yeah, there was many rock bottom moments, so even though it wasn't like death by a thousand, you know, yeah, pins or whatever, it was it was almost death by a thousand rock bottoms. Because I I kept on thinking, how can I get any lower like this has to be it? And then but the thing is, even though I would have these rock bottoms, I still didn't think like I hadn't put that connection that I needed to give up alcohol forever. You know, those two words forever, it was like, or one word, forever. It was like So overwhelming, yeah so overwhelming, and I just couldn't see how my life would be without alcohol in it, because it became so much of my identity, I was like, right, okay, well, I'll knock it on the head for a bit. And I did, there was there was one time when I when I knocked it on the head for about three months, I'd come out of a relationship and we were both like co-co-dependent and all that, and I'd split up with her and I'd come home, and it was just it was just a complete train wreck, you know. We'd had a pub and that had got trashed on a night, and uh just because you know I was absolutely off my head. Uh so I left that, went home and my folks, and I was yeah, I was like three months, three months off of it, I think. Um but I thought, oh yeah, you know, this this this is this is good, it hasn't killed me, and I'm I'm I'm I'm feeling good, I'm alright. Started running again, and then yeah, slowly, slowly it started coming back in. And it would that that would go on for like, you know, maybe a couple of years here, a couple of years there, getting a relationship, um, and then things would start kind of the thing with me with relationships was I would always get in a relationship thinking that that part of that was something that was missing in my life, you know. Maybe with the wrong person or whatever, but just because like someone would maybe show me a bit of interest, and I'd be like oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, and then I would like convince myself that we were in love and this and that. But alcohol was always coming first, and I wouldn't be with someone that didn't like a drink, you know? And yeah, so that would drinking partners. Drinking partners, and then that would happen. I was in my like what twenties and then my thirties, so it was like, you know, that would kind of be okay for a while, and then my drinking would would kind of escalate and the wheels would fall off again, and then we'd break up, and then I'd probably end up back at my folks' house. And do you know what I mean? Just just things like that. It was just this constant kind of roller coaster, but again, not putting too to good. Like I knew the drinking was bad, but I was like, right, I'll just rein it in and I'll be okay and I'll get a new job. But this just yeah, it was just a vicious cycle, man.

SPEAKER_00 30:59

Yeah, you're constantly telling yourself that you can control it, it's not controlling you, and you can drink like many other people can. You haven't got a problem. And yeah, it's not gonna be the same. I'm not gonna go there again. But these how many times have you got a hit rock bottom exactly? Yeah, it's yeah, it's just that recurring story, really.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

Absolutely. So, yeah, so it did it did kind of the final rock bottom was was on the island, and I remember I was just in a field. Um, I come over here during COVID, and I was just in a field. A lovely day like today, and I was like drinking vodka, and I was just I was screaming, I was crying, and I was just like I just felt so like not not lonely because I had people around me, but my brain just felt lonely because there was just nothing in there. There was no like real kind of ambition or drive, and I was just so lost in this. Like I knew that it was it was probably killing me at this point, and I knew I needed to get off it, but I didn't know how to. And I tried and I'd failed, and I tried and I'd failed, and I tried and I'd failed. And I just, yeah, yeah, I ended up in a hospital um uh to get to get my final detox. They couldn't detox me because they have to breathalyze you first, so you have to be down to a certain level, and they go, right, go back out and sit in the waiting room and we'll just let you. But then that's obviously me getting panicky because I would go into withdrawal, and I was like, So I'd nipping over to the shop across from Noble's and getting like like little bottles and stuff, and just and they they they the nurses kept on coming back out and breathlise me, and they were like, They must have known, but they were like, Why is this not going down? I think at one point it went up, and they were like, What the what is going on? So they sent me home with a note that said that I had to have I think it was 80 mil of vodka like five or six times a day. So it was like an old school draconian type um tapering off method, and so that was yeah, it wasn't enough. And I just said to my mum, like, I'm just going out for a walk. Like she thought this is it, we'll do this, and then we'll go into the hospital in a few days and get you on Librium. Um but I went out and I was because it wasn't enough, and I went and got and then I don't know, she found me like passed out of my room later on. She was like, right, we're going to the hospital tomorrow. And I'd sit there in the in the waiting room this time with my mum, bless her. And eventually they gave me Librium. They could give me Librium. So I they kept me in for three days, and that really did the trick. And then I was like, right, I'm not there's no way I want to go back to how I was. Like I've done it. I've done I'd had a detox before and that hadn't worked. And I was like, I need to now get the support and the help because I can't do this alone. Like I always thought, I just do it myself, I'm fine. So that's when I that's when I found motivate um and the guys there. Yeah. I just said I'm gonna do everything and anything I can to to get to to maintain my abstinence.

SPEAKER_00 33:53

What scared you most about stopping?

SPEAKER_01 33:58

I mean at the time what scared me most was withdrawal because it was the most horrible thing when I could feel it come in and I knew that I needed a drink to to to kind of stave it off, like that was terrifying, that whole just because I'd had seizures, I'd hold all sorts, and I just didn't want to go down that so but the other th the other thing was like who am I? Who who am I without it? You know, what what what am I? Like that was my identity, and thinking about it now, it's so bizarre because like I'm not that at all anymore. Like anyone that knows me in the island, and like I was only here for a couple of months before I got sober. So the like 99% of the people that know me on the island, they know me as sober. So it's so bizarre to think that that was my identity before, you know.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

Yeah, I was I was talking to my boss the other day uh about our Christmas do, and obviously I wasn't drinking. And I was telling him a few stories about what I what I used to do on Christmas um dos and stuff. And he said to me, he said, Luke, I cannot imagine you being like that. And I said, Wow, I said I really was like that. But it's it's mad, isn't it, how you how your identity can shift so much.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's crazy. I mean, my identity now is obviously you know being sober, recovery Jimmy, but it's it's just mad that that was that was what scared scared me most. I was like, what am I gonna do? You know, how am I gonna live my life? Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna live it much healthier and better, you know. It's it's just mad.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Yeah. What's the hardest part about early recovery that no one warned you about than Jimmy? Obviously, you've um just spoke about detox and stuff. Is there anything else that comes up in early recovery?

SPEAKER_01 35:41

Yeah, I mean, finding who you are, like finding out who you are, I think that's that's the hardest part because like obviously there's the detox and and all of those things, but for a lot of people that are yeah, like me, they identify with but they maybe didn't need to get a detox. It is so hard to to find who you are as a person because if you've been drinking for a long time and suddenly you're not doing it anymore, it's like what what am I gonna do? Like, what are my interests, you know? Because a lot of people will say, like, what do you like doing? It's like, I like socialising. That means they like drinking. Do you know what I mean? Because you can't have a word for it, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

I never thought about that, but that but it is a good way of looking at it.

SPEAKER_01 36:23

I like to socialise, so you're a drinker then. But that's it, it's finding out who you really are, and and that was that was scary and rewarding because I was like, Who the frick am I? And I think a lot of people, regardless of whether they're a drinker or not, we we live in a world where there's so many frickin distractions, like these things are constantly going off, pinging, pinging, pinging. And do you know what? I'm I'm pretty bad with it. But when I first got um sober and I was up in the cottage, I just I didn't I didn't I just I didn't have a TV, I had my laptop to watch films and stuff, and I had a music player, but I just basically cut myself off from everything and became almost like a hermit because I didn't I needed to I needed to learn who I was, I needed to be comfortable in my own skin. And for a long time I didn't like being like on my own and just because the noise, do you know what I mean? Like the the kind of fuzzy noise in my head. So I would drink to just kind of escape, and then it was okay, but like facing who you are and being comfortable in your own skin is a very, very rewarding and yet difficult thing to do. And I think a lot of people can you know we get home from work and we maybe put the TV on, we're always checking our phones and this, that, and the other, and that that is fine, but just take yourself out of that situation for short periods of time just to kind of be with yourself, like going for a hike, going for a walk, no distractions, no no air pods in or whatever. Just go away and be with yourself, and I think that for me was one of the most rewarding things at the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Um, I'm not sure if that answered your question, but it's yeah, it's yeah, it's just it's just reminding me as you were talking about a realization I had when I was down on Fenella Beach down here in Pill. Yeah. When I and the first summer that I went sober, and I remember I was just sat there with my wife on the beach, and she was and she's uh and I wasn't on my phone, I wasn't on it. I was just sat on the beach, and I said, I I I'm just happy, and it was really weird. I I sort of teared up a a bit, and she said, She said, What do you mean? I said I'm just being, and to like the old version of me would have been like, What are you talking about, Luke? You sound like you're gonna mad or whatever. But yeah, but but back in the day I would have been obviously I would have been drinking on the beach, or I would have been thinking about drinking. I my mind wouldn't have been there, but is it and I know a lot of us in the sober community go on about being present, but that that is what it is to me, and it's being comfortable in your own skin and being comfortable in your own skin, and even doing what you're doing there on that on that beach, that is a form of meditation, you know, which a lot of people don't realize.

SPEAKER_01 39:03

They think you have to be sat there like with your eyes closed and go no, you know, you don't, it's just taking moments for yourself to just reflect and be, and that is meditation, and it's so easy to do and just have five, ten, fifteen minutes, you know, on a daily basis. If you can do that, you know, then then you're good. Like even driving to work, turn the radio off. Yeah, just turn the radio off and just think and be, and that is that's that's doing it as well, you know. But a lot of people need distractions, we need constant distractions because we're not sure what what thoughts are gonna come in our head, and it's like they're okay. Once you get used to them, don't be scared of them, you know.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

Yeah, yeah. I'm guilty of it now. I'm always listening to podcasts, um, I'm always on my phone. My wife's always my wife's always telling me about it. But we've recently got a dog and we've recently got a puppy, as you well know. And I've said to my wife, I said, this is gonna be really good for me because it's gonna keep me grounded, and and when I go out for walks with the dog, I'm not gonna have anything in my ears. I'm gonna be really present.

SPEAKER_01 40:04

And so, so yeah, you can you can you can still deal with these other things, but yeah, I I know I I mean I am I'm I mean I I I do socials and all that because of my Instagram and stuff like that, but I think a lot of people haven't made that transition. Like it took me to get sober to to make peace with myself, if that makes sense. And I think a lot of people it's okay to to use the distractions. I I do it, you do it, it's fine. But I think people need to do that transition to begin with, and then it's okay to go on the phones and be distracted and all that. But if you don't learn to be comfortable with yourself first, then that stuff is just a bad distraction. Do you know what I mean? Once you've learned the traits of doing that and being one with yourself, then it's okay. But yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:53

Yeah, it's tough. It's a bit of soul searching, I guess. Yeah, yeah. But um, yeah, we're always trying to escape with whether it's our phones, whether it's alcohol, whether it's food, whether yeah, it's all these different things. But but it's tough being human, it really is.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

It is, and especially with the way the world is at the moment, do you know what I mean? We've not not only we got wars going on, we've got this freaking manosphere stuff that's going around, and it's so terrifying. Do you know what I mean? Because I think a lot of these guys, not to go off topic, but I can I can relate to them that are they're they're they were, you know, during COVID and all that, they found these guys online because they were lost individuals. These guys were lost and they were maybe going through a bad breakup or whatever. So easy to turn to the booze from that, I did it, but then a lot of them are turning to this, you know, Andrew Tates and whatnot of the world, and it's like there's there's a very fine line between not turning to the booze but actually going that way as well. And it is it's a dangerous world out there, man, because there's so much like I was showing Jen the a bit of HS Tiki Toki on my TikTok, and now like I don't follow him, but I was just showing him what who showing Jen what he would like, and now my algorithm is infiltrated with it. So if you're if you're in if you show a bit of lightning to that, then that's all that's gonna come through. But it's the same with booze as well. Like, if you start liking and doing like anything to do with funny alcohol memes and all that, that's just gonna keep coming in. Do you know what I mean? And before you know it, if you haven't done that whole thing that we were talking about and being one with yourself and been able to switch off the phone, if it's becoming your life, then you're just gonna be influenced, influenced, influenced. So yeah. And it's as soon as you start seeing things like, oh, there's a beer garden, blah blah blah, the weather's getting nicer, it's springtime, alcohol, Guinness, cider, whatever, it's just it makes you yearn for it. And as soon as you're like thinking, my God, looking out the window at work, and it's like it's a sunny day, you're already you're already in the pub. Do you know what I mean? And it's like it's it's sad and it's dangerous because alcohol's allowed to do that, you know. No other like drug or like tobacco's not allowed to advertise, but but alcohol's still allowed to do it. And that's another thing, like all the prescription medicines or medicines that you buy over the counter, they come with a bit of paper that is as long as your arm, with all the the side effects, nausea, this, that, and the other, blah blah blah, may cause you know stomach cramps or this or that. They all have to do that legally, but alcohol doesn't, whereas alcohol is still like one of the worst drugs for you, but they don't have to have any warnings on them at all. It's mental.

SPEAKER_00 43:28

Yeah, it's been around for donkeys years, and and I've I've I've heard many people say that if it came out now, it would never they they never allow the mass uh the mass selling of it because it is so because it is so toxic, but it's it's been and it's just so deeply ingrained in our society, it's it's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

Yeah. I read something the other day that because people are like, well, you know, if you drink a poison, you pretty much get the effects of the poison straight away. If like if it's deadly, it's gonna kill you straight away. Why do we not get the hangover until the next day? And it's because alcohol has an anesthetizing quality, like it numb you, it is doing damage to you straight away, but because it's giving you this anaesthetizing effect, you're numb to that, whatever it's doing to you, until that alcohol wears off, and then you've got the hangover. So that's why you get the hangover the next day. So it's it's poisoning you straight away. We just don't know because it's making us numb. It's the cleverest, it's the cleverest poison known to man. And it also makes you makes you feel good for about 20 minutes. So it's like, yeah, so we just keep doing it.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

Yeah, and the marketing, like you said just before, it's absolutely mad, isn't it? Yeah. As soon as I I was talking to Beg Gibbs a a few weeks back on on here. The alcohol free guy, and we were talking about beers and how you associate. And like you just said, it it if you know it's barbecue weather, and then you have a barbecue, you've got to have a beer, and the condensation on on the on on the side of the pint glass, and it and it's all these things that these alcohol companies tap into, isn't it? Oh yeah, yeah. And it gets in your mind, and as soon as as soon as it's nice weather, you're driving home, and straight away, let's have a beer. And I used to say it to my wife all the time, Jimmy. It was always on the way home, I'd be texting her saying, make sure that there's beers in the fridge or whatever. And yeah, it's just yeah, I I look at it now, mate, and I think, oh my god, but yeah, at that time I I was um yeah, I was mate.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

Deep in it, deep in it, lost in it, yeah. But it's but it's mad as well, because you look at a lot of these like music videos, like whether it be hip-hop or or RB or or you know, even even indie music, whatever. But it's like especially the hip-hop like vibe is like, you know, really expensive bottles of hennesy and champagne and all that. So they're doing it, and it's like, you know, what are the kids and and young adults seeing? They're just seeing, like, oh well, if you want to be rich and kind of influential, you've got to be drinking the best of the booze. And it's like it's still poison, just wrapped up in you know, a fancy bottle.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

We spoke about triggers earlier, Jimmy. You said that you don't get any triggers anymore, but what were your top three triggers? What did you used to do when they came in? Just for anyone listening who's sober curious.

SPEAKER_01 46:17

Yeah, okay. So, I mean, I yeah. It's a funny one, triggers, because triggers were to me I didn't it's it's like it's hard to put into words. So I didn't once I once I got sober for the last time, Luke, that was it. Like I could walk down the booze aisle in Tesco's, but I chose not to, do you know what I mean? Like, because that wouldn't be triggered because I knew that at this point I was doing everything I needed to do, but I would just keep myself out of situations like that. I wouldn't go to the pub. Um, I didn't socialise for a long time. I was just became a bit of a hermit for for about a year. Um I socialise Yeah, I socialized. Yeah, really. Why that's quite a long time. Okay. I mean I socialized with my with my my group, you know, my home group, the meetings and all that, and obviously sort of my family and stuff like that, but I didn't really there was the odd thing that I would go to, but I I would I just I I wasn't really interested in it. You know, I was doing this soul searching thing and just and just being me and and and having time with myself. I'm not saying that everyone needs to do that, but I was just so steadfast in my recovery that I was like everything for that first year had to do with recovery, you know. It was like going to my meetings, I was I did like a hundred meetings and a hundred days at the beginning, and then I I think I knocked it down to about three in-person meetings and one on Zoom, and that went on for about a year. So I was I was doing a lot of it, then I was building my work. But yeah, triggers, like yeah, I I think just staying away from pubs. Um obviously it's difficult when you go into the supermarket because especially at Christmas time, you've just got massive displays and all of that stuff. It's more it's more a mental thing, you know. Triggers can be triggering, but once you've made that choice to to go sober and stay sober, um I think you just need to get rid of the mental obsession so that triggers can't affect you. But again, it's like sitting with it for 20 minutes and to let the craving pass, things like that. Yeah. But you know, I like I think back in the day when I was like sober for a bit and then, you know, like um relapsing. It wasn't to do with a trigger, it wasn't like because I was going past the shop or this, that, and the other. I would get it in my head maybe a day or two before I picked up, and it was in my head and it was like, right, this is it. And I knew I knew I knew it was good, I knew it was gonna drink, but I was not really letting myself fight it. So I knew it was gonna happen, but it wasn't really anything external that was doing it, it was just there, and it was like, right, you're gonna drink on Thursday, so therefore I was gonna do it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:55

I I didn't find that hard over Christmas.

SPEAKER_01 48:58

This was this your first Christmas?

SPEAKER_00 49:00

Yeah, so this was yeah, so the Christmas just gone like when you were talking then, I was just thinking about the um the supermarket aisles. Yeah. And um, yeah, and 100% around Christmas, it's always there's always gonna be lots of booze in there. The average, they're all uh obviously bail bailers is a big thing at Christmas, the Gordon's gin, whatever it might be. But and I said to my wife at one of those one of those realization moments again, I I remember just being sat there at Christma on Christmas Day, and I said, I think I used to drink so much around Christmas just to fill in the gaps of boredom. Because you like you know, it's just like, well, we've got nothing else to do now, really. So let's just have a drink. And everyone drinks at Christmas. But I think I was drinking so much at Christmas, but just to fill in those gaps of boredom. But like you said, when um when you do go alcohol free, when you do go sober and you you start um you go back to hobbies, you find other interests, you've got obviously you've got your sober community and stuff. It's so it's it's like a different world opens up to you, and you've got all these things to do anyway.

SPEAKER_01 50:03

Absolutely. I mean, having that all that time off at Christmas, if you have like two weeks off, it's it's great, but a lot of people just spend it boozing because they think, oh, there's nothing much to do. There's loads to do. Do you know what I mean? It's it's like oh, and you've got two weeks off work, use them wisely, don't just get pissed and then be hung over for the rest of it.

SPEAKER_00 50:21

Yeah, and then they get really bored at home and they want to go back to work. It's absolutely mad. And that and yeah, same conversation every January with uh with other tradesmen, and it was always like, Oh, I just got bored and I I was fed up with just getting pissed all the time. So uh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm glad to be back to work to be honest. I'm like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 50:41

Yeah, well the the the I mean uh the first two years I was with Jen, we went away every Christmas. Well, not we wouldn't go away for Christmas, but we go away for New Year. We didn't do it this year, but that's just because we're saving for a holiday this year. But yeah, it was just nice to get away and go off and do something, you know, rather than and that's the thing. Like, stay for Christmas if you want to do the family, go away for another week, you know, go away for New Year, because again, New Year's a big thing, it was a big thing in Scotland, and that was just a huge boozy night. It was bigger than Christmas up there because obviously they like a drink. Um, so yeah, but I again my first couple of sober New Years were pretty easy, you know. I'd maybe I think at the first year I went around saw my folks, and then after that I was like, Do you know what? I'm gonna stay in and watch uh Jules Holland. I'm not I'm not bothered. You know, it's just it's just another night, really. And it was like, did I stay up till 12? Probably not even bothered doing that, you know. It was like I know it sounds really sad and boring, but I was like, it's just another night, and I don't really fancy going out into a big massive party. It's not it's not it's not this year. We did, we went to a friend's house actually, and it was it was good crack. We stayed out till about one and we had a curry and there was a few sober people there as well. So it was it was just it was just nice, it wasn't a massive crowd, and it was just a nice night, you know.

SPEAKER_00 52:00

You've you've mentioned a couple of times about different support groups, Jimmy. So so what did help you? Yeah, you have mentioned AA, and I um obviously I know your story, but it's it's just Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

Well, I didn't really use AA as much. I went to a few meetings over here just because I was trying to do a meeting every day. But what I really got involved in over here was NA. Now, as I said before, drugs were never a huge issue for me. They were I was never dependent on them, but with NA Narcotics Anonymous, they're like, well, alcohol's a drug, so you're welcome here, you know. So that became my home group. Um there was only about four or five of us when I first started, and it grew and grew over the I think I was there for about a year, maybe two years. Um, but I was doing everything. So I was going to drugs and alcohol team up here, I was going to Smart, which is part of Motivate. I was doing NACA, CA's Cocaine Anonymous, but it's effectively the same as NA. Again, it's the same thing, alcohol's a drug. So it was just to be in with my tribe, with my peer group, do you know what I mean? And just hearing the stories. So for me, yeah, when I couldn't get into a face-to-face meeting, I was doing them online. So I was going to places in America, I was going to Australia, because it was COVID, so we could do that. I don't know, I haven't looked at any meetings. I'm sure you can still go online, but it was very, very prevalent back then because no one could get to meetings, so it was like we've we've opened this up, we can do it on the Zoom. Um and you'd go in and you could turn your camera off and you could just sit and listen or you could speak. But sometimes I was going into groups, but it was like hundreds of people, you know. So it was just nice to just sit and listen to the stories. That was that was the main thing for me, knowing that I wasn't alone. Um, you know, at first I was like, Oh, these people, I'm not as bad as them, and all that. And it doesn't matter as long as you start listening for the similarities, and you can always find similarities to your story from other people's stories. Doesn't matter who you are, what what what level of addiction you're at, you'll always find similarities, and that's that's what you need to listen for, and that's what helped me.

SPEAKER_00 54:04

Yeah. That was gonna be my next question. What helped you most out of all of those things that you've just listed? Was it the meetings where you was that relatability factor where you could hear other people's stories?

SPEAKER_01 54:17

That was the thing that I enjoyed the most, but again, it was just like everything really, everything was, you know, helping me because I was doing I was I started up my Instagram, but I was I was doing YouTube and I was watching films on YouTube, just learning, just learning everything about it because I had no clue. You know, as soon as people started saying it's a lot more dangerous than you think, and I was like, What? Like I thought, oh, I'm gonna be 60 or 17, I'll get cirrhosis and then I'll die. But being all of I'll have had a good life and all that, I didn't realise that you can get cirrhosis at like that girl nearly did at 31, 32. One of my friends from rehab, uh Lindsay, she she actually sadly died last year. She was only 36. Uh, she got sober at the same time as me, and we all thought she was sober, but she was she was secret drinking. Um, and yeah, right up until the end, she she she wasn't telling anyone, and then she went into hospital and had to put into what is it, respite care? Um, just at the end, 36, and she'd she drank herself to death. And it's like that for me, learning that and and researching that and just going, fuck, like why why is nobody telling anyone this stuff? You know, why do you have to get to rock bottom as an alcoholic to then start opening your eyes up? Why why does it have to get to that point? I mean, luckily, touch wood that I never got to, you know, have any you know long-lasting effects, but there's there's people that the same age as me that yeah, that have I've had in the podcast that you know, Lucy's husband that died. It's just it's just shocking. But he was turned away so many times by the doctors because he wasn't bad enough. Like we send we send three people a year to rehab, you're not drinking enough. A couple years later he's dead. Like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_00 56:02

Yeah, it's madness. I remember listening to that podcast of yours, and um yeah, yeah, it made me cry. It was it was it was um what a story, what a story that was. Yeah, but um, yeah, so when you hear when you hear these sort of stories and it and it touches people so close to you, when when people say about you drinking again, it's just like wow, you have no idea. You you don't know what I've been through and and the people that have been so close to me. That's why you're doing what you're doing, right? That's why you're spreading spreading that message because people just don't know, do they?

SPEAKER_01 56:37

They don't know. They like you know, I think a lot of people will be like, well, you know, your Instagram, your podcast, it's just for people that are in recovery or struggling. No, it's not, it's for everyone. It's for everyone. If people start listening to my podcast, then they can maybe start opening their eyes too, you know. Like, it's just it's just madness that it's like just we're the odd ones out because we don't drink, you know, and it's like yeah. But all we can do is just keep keep kind of banging the drum, and I hope that, you know, at some point I mean, I know, I know, I'd like to guarantee that alcohol is gonna go the same way as smoking, but it's getting there, and it's like I just want to say to people, get on the bandwagon now because you know, in 10, 15, 20 years' time, when it's pretty much like on the uh fringes of society, like smoking is you're gonna wish that you did it now, you know?

SPEAKER_00 57:30

Yeah, yeah, and get all those years back. Yeah. And start living, yeah. Yeah, it's um realising you can live on the ball. No, I know it's a whole balance thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 57:42

I don't think we are being self-righteous. Like, I don't think that's what it is. I think it's more like I'm just trying to warn people almost, you know. Like, I don't want people to get as bad as I was, because that's not a happy place to be, and it's not a good place to be. And you don't have to get to that place to start to read a bit of something online that says that you know alcohol's not got a safe level and it's killing you. It's not it's not rocket science, you know. But it's difficult because nobody wants to hear it. They've got this like old school loyalty, love affair with alcohol that nobody wants to tarnish, you know, and it's like alright.

SPEAKER_00 58:20

Yeah, it's a tradition. That's one that I get a lot from uh from old friends. It's what we've always done. It's like, yeah, but it's not always what you've got to do, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:30

You can change. I mean, the thing is, if if we were the same people as we were when we were in our 20s, look, like that's pretty sad. People evolve, people change, you know what I mean? And that's the thing. Like, that's why marriages work if you evolve with that person, do you know what I mean? If they're like, Oh, you're not the person I married, it's like, well, we got married 20 years ago, so I'm fing glad I'm not the same person. Do you know what I mean? It's like you have to evolve, you have to change, and you have to move with the times and surrounding circumstances. So if people still have this love affair with this poison, we only really started drinking it way back in medieval times because the water wasn't safe to drink. So they drank that to kind of keep themselves, well, as they thought, hydrated. But yeah. And it and then and then it slipped into becoming this like traditional thing, like let's drink it with uh you know, weddings and and and parties and all that kind of stuff. And it's just it's just slowly, slowly over the years just slipped into folklore, you know. That's what it is. And it's like, how can we change that? Not overnight, but we will.

SPEAKER_00 59:33

What daily habits then, Jimmy, moving forward, what are non-negotiable to you now?

SPEAKER_01 59:39

Well, I do have to kind of I'm always checking in with my with my Instagram, whether it be a real or you know, kind of posting something. Uh it's not a I wouldn't say it was daily. I mean I'm trying to do it daily, but um have to do something with regards to recovery, whether it be setting up a guest for the podcast or you know, going into motivate and doing our peer mentoring group, um you know, listening to a podcast about recovery, because I every day I do do something that is with regards to recovery because again, it's not to keep me sober, it's just that I don't want to forget, you know. I don't want to forget where where I've kind of come from. And I think that if I didn't do a post or didn't do this or it might not help someone, you know, and I think the more I can do it, if I'm just helping one person with each post or whatever, then it's one person that might have been struggling otherwise, you know. Um and I think that's that's it. I mean, other than that, like, you know, I just have to keep a positive attitude. And I'm not saying that like I'm you know, need to be depressed or anything like that, but I you know, life is good and I and I try to be like when I was drinking, I was massively depressed, and I think that kind of was like the chicken or the egg what came first, and it was like, well, you know, if I do have like times in my life where I'm getting a bit down and all that, but I just have to snap myself out of it. And it is doing a bit of meditation, it is you know, reading something or listening to something or even just putting on a favourite music track, just little things like that, just to try and snap yourself out of it. It's it's not instant, but I know that if I'm you know veering down some kind of uh path, then I I need to bring myself back from it. So yeah. And you find with your socials that it keeps you accountable as well, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:27

Definitely, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:29

Massively Because it's my whole journey, you know, and that's the thing. Like somebody said the other day that they'd lost, they basically got taken down, and she had all she's about four years sober and she'd all her recovery journey on there, and she's just in meta of just taking it down for some fed up reason. She can't get it back. So I've started like at least once a month just downloading my stuff, just in case. Do you know what I mean? If I get hacked or whatever, it's like it's gone into the ether, like, you know, and it's like I know it's not the most important thing in the world, but just all those pictures and posts and all that, that is my journey, you know. Um, and I think it was was it Ben that was the sober guy? He did that, and he was like, um, he turned it into a book because I know I'm not saying I'm gonna turn it into a book, but like it's just nice to have it because if it's gone, it's gone and you're never getting it back.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:17

So no, that is a good point, definitely. Well uh so for anyone listening, Jimmy, what are the early signs like what's the early signs to look for if if they feel like they may be drifting?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:35

Well, I mean are you are you thinking about alcohol more often than not? You know, like if you're getting to say it's a Tuesday, what day is it today, Wednesday, say it's a Tuesday or Wednesday, Wednesday midweek, so I don't know. Say it's a Tuesday and you've kind of you're at work and you've just had your morning cup of tea, sorry, your your kind of morning break, so it's about 11 o'clock, thinking about lunch, but then suddenly alcohol popped in there, and you're like, what am I gonna do at the weekend? Am I gonna be drinking? And if that's becoming quite a regular thing where you're thinking about it and not thinking about the night out, you're thinking about what you're gonna drink on the night out or what type of wine you're gonna get this evening when you're on your way home. Not actually like the conversation that you're gonna have with your spouse or your kids. If you're thinking about the brand or the the the flavor of wine, whatever it is, you know what I mean, whether it's a Pinot or whatever, if you're thinking about that, it's already taken control of your life. You know, you shouldn't be like thinking about that. When you think I'm hungry, you're not instantly thinking I'm gonna have, you know, a steak or this or that. You think I need to get a snack, so you'll you'll go and find some you look in the fridge. Do you know what I mean? You're not instantly going right, but when you're thinking about alcohol more and more and more, it's already done its trick, so you need to you need to basically get out of that now. And that's and that's it. You know, people will they'll be planning a night out and they'll be like, right, what time are we gonna get there and are we gonna drink before we get there? The whole night is surrounded by the alcohol. It's not about the night out and who they're gonna meet and who they're gonna see, it's about the booze. Annie Grace that does this naked mind, she did a few tests and things and studies where there's a group of people and they just finished work, and it was she was sober at this point, but she was noticing them, and they were all they'd all been really stressful day at work, so they'd gone to this bar after work and they were all going, Oh, you know, boss is a dick and this, and we've had a really hard time. And and then the wine came out and they hadn't touched a drop yet, but suddenly their spirits were lifted because the wine had arrived at the table and they were going, Oh, yeah, this is a really nice vintage and blah blah blah and all that. Then the wine was poured, and then they'd have a couple of glasses, and once they had the couple of glasses, the mood kind of went back down again, and it was back about the grump of the work and this, that, and the other. So there's a placebo effect with it, and it's the it's the anticipation of having that wine or beer or whatever, and it's like it's not actually the thing that does it, because once you get the thing, you're numbing yourself straight away. But this is not what people remember. They remember that the alcohol has given them this good night, and it's not that at all, it's just this pure placebo thing, but they but then that over overwhelms them, and their their brain starts constantly thinking about the alcohol, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:16

Yeah, no, it's a really, really good point. It's the anticipation, it's the excitement of the occasion. Yeah. I remember when I I was talking to Ben Gibbs about it um a few weeks back, and when I first had my uh first Heineken Zero in a pub, I was still getting the buzz, I was getting the lift. Yeah, and my brain was like, What is going on? But yeah, it's the people you're with, the conversations you're having, and I think I think that's what it's all about. It's not about the alcohol, and that is the alcohol? That's the message that we drive, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:47

Absolutely. And I remember one time I was I was heading up to the shop, the the petrol station to get, and I was absolutely like I could feel the withdrawal coming on, you know, I was just hanging, and I knew I needed to wait until they'd gone out to school and work, and then before I could leave the house, and then I was like waiting, waiting, waiting. They eventually went, and I was like hop skipping and jumping up to that shop, but actually dragging my ass up. Got the bottle, and I got out of the shop and I put it in my pocket, and as soon as it was in my pocket, I felt alright. Like the withdrawal was still coming, but that that little boost that I got because I knew it was here and it was giving. To be in me shortly was like enough to just settle me for like a couple of minutes. Like I got around the corner and I started downing it like some old Jakey in the street. But just those and I was like, wow, that little anticipation that I had it, that I knew I was going to be like a like a safety net, you know what I mean? And it was weird and it was scary. It was scary because I knew that like that it was it was it was it wasn't good, but I knew that I needed it. Yeah. So there's definitely a placebo effect there. And I think a lot of people need to like if you said to someone, even if they say I did a post the other day, it was like you take it or I'm a take or leave it kind of drinker, you know. It's like, well, leave it then, just leave it for a bit. Because even if someone says that to you, I bet they haven't left it their entire life. Do you know what I mean? Oh, I take it or leave it. Well, fucking leave it then. You know, go to a night out without drinking. Oh, I couldn't do that. Well, you just said you could, you know, so so prove it. But you know, it's difficult because they're tied to it.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it goes back to the identity thing, doesn't it? And the stories we tell ourselves again. Yeah, yeah, it always goes back to that. So, this new life that you've built uh for yourself here then, Jimmy, and the big transformation, the big identity shift, yeah. What's the what's the one thing that you're most proud of today?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:36

Oh, I mean, I mean, um I mean I mean I would say first and foremost is my sobriety because that like without that, nothing like I I was pausing there because you know, the most thing that I'm proud of is is is having my beautiful wife and her three amazing kids, my stepkids. You know, that is the thing that I'm proudest of most because that's like where I've got to, you know. But I've got loads of other things, but that is the main thing, but that wouldn't be there without getting sober, you know. So that is still the thing I am most proud about. A friend of mine was yeah, yeah, like a friend of mine told me years ago, because I was sit I was my Instagram was getting quite big, and she was like, Oh, you need to make sure this doesn't become your identity and who you are, and I was like, Oh, yeah, yeah. And the more I think about it, I'm like, nah, fuck that. Like, this is my identity, of course it is. Like, I like I've got my job and all that, and if I can do this full-time eventually, that'd be great, but I'm not about that, it's about me being sober and me sharing the word and and trying to help other people, and that is what I'm most proud about, you know. And as I say, none of the other stuff in my life, my job, my business, the photography that I do, the podcast, and having my beautiful family, you know, none of that would be there without the the sobriety. So yeah, that's the main thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:52

What would your family say is the biggest difference in you now? I mean, did they know the Jimmy before?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:59

Uh they didn't know the Jimmy before.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:00

They didn't know the Jimmy before, right? Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:02

They didn't know. My mum and my dad obviously do it, my brother and his partner do it. Okay. So what would they say, Jimmy? I mean I would say. And I mean, well, I mean, honesty, honesty definitely. Like, you know, I'm definitely a much more trustworthy person and building that trust with my family again. But I think like my mum knew who I was deep down, you know, she's always known who I was, and she's just like, Do you know what? I'm just so proud to have you back. That's that's kind of the thing. Yeah, she just she just loves having her son back, you know, and it's like, yeah, man, because that's you know, it's quite emotional. But I think you know, I put her through so much, and they're not getting any younger, you know, and it's it's difficult to to kind of say that, but like it's yeah, definitely just knowing she knew the whole time that I was in there and that I was doing it, she could see I was killing myself, and just to have her son back is yeah, yeah, unadoubtfully the best thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:01

Why do you think Alcohol brings out that dark side in us then, Jimmy? Because I've spoke to so many different addicts now, and it really does. It brings it brings out that that side of us, that part of our personality. Why do you think it does? Because it's a poison.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:18

Because it's an evil poison. I mean, I don't think there's I know that sounds all like, oh, he's you know, meddling with the dark arts and all that. No, it's it's an evil poison, and you know, nothing that's that deadly and dangerous can have any good come from it. This is what we need to this is what we need to get, and I know I've been harping on a lot the whole episode, but I'm just so passionate about it. But I think we need to start we need to start accepting for what it is, it's a poison, it should have a skull and crossbones on the bottle. Do you know what I mean? Like it's not and and for something that is that deadly, like three million people last year died globally from it, you know. Like that's insane. But and yet it's still this warm, cozy, cuddly, glamorous thing that we have, and I think that that that needs to change, like because it is it's an evil poison that kills people, and I think that is our our brains and our um bodies are kind of trying to deal with what we're doing to it, and it and I think it brings out the worst because you get some people that can just be a happy, you know, go lucky drunk, but I don't think those people are absolutely getting completely smashed, you know. I think the more smashed you get, the angry side does come out with with the majority of people because yeah, it's it's like I think the Arabic word for alcohol is alcool, I think, which means uh body eating spirit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:49

Yeah, I know, yeah, I have read this.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:50

It's crazy, I know. So, you know, that that that kind of says it all. That's why, you know, um the Muslim world don't don't don't drink, don't imbibe because it's a body eating spirit or whatever, yeah. Mental.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:04

So anyone that's super curious that's listening to this, Jimmy, who has related to a lot of the things you've you've said that we've said about going alcohol free, what would be your advice to them? What's the what's the first thing that they've gotta do or they've gotta try?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:19

They gotta find their tribe. They gotta they gotta not do this on their own because a tiny percent of people can just have spontaneous sobriety and do it on their own. But the majority of us need support, we need help, we need not just from and when I say tribe, I don't mean you have to go and find, you know, an AA group or uh or a smart group or an A NA group. You can find your tribe online, you can find it in the sober community like us. You can even find it in just listening to podcasts, you know, as long as you don't have to be talking to that person, if that person's in your ear, like you and me will be in hopefully thousands of people's ears, then that is their tribe, you know, and telling your family, telling your friends, make them part of your tribe because they're gonna support you. If they don't support you, then tell them to go off down the street because why wouldn't they support you? If you're wanting to do something and then you see it as being beneficial to your health because the alternative is not good for you, why wouldn't your friends and family support you? So you need to have a conversation with them if they're not ready to support you. But hopefully 99% of friends and family would support them. That can then be part of their tribe, but it's all about building your community and just telling people. I know a lot of people don't want to shout it from the hills like we do, but that doesn't matter. As long as you tell people that are close to you, but also getting support online. You know, find a sober coach like yourself, or hopefully, well, I'm gonna be in it in a couple of months. Do NA, do CA, do smart meetings. There's a whole plethora of other ones on there, but just find your community, find people that have got light-minded, find people that are just starting like yourself, but also find people that have been there before. And and then someone, Hamish from the Sober Awkward, said the first day he got sober, he looked in the mirror and he realized that he was just as sober, because he'd done a day, he was just as sober as someone that had 20 years of sobriety. We're all just as sober as each other. Once you get a day, or even an hour, you're just well, you probably not an hour because you're probably still pissed. But do you know what I mean? Once you get that out of your system, you're just as sober as me, and he's just as sober as the next person. So we're all we're all we're all just as sober as each other. Um so we're all just willing to help each other. That's it. It's an amazing community, and it's just it's it's just open and ready to be tapped into by so many people out there, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:36

Social media gets such a bad rap, doesn't it? For so many reasons, I understand, but I think the sober community on Instagram is is brilliant, it's thriving and it's it's absolutely amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:47

Everyone's so supportive, yeah. It's brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:49

Yeah, that's the thing. Like, whenever I see someone that's just cut popped up and they're like on day one or first week or whatever, I'm always commenting because you know, if I see it, I'm like, yeah, because that's the people that need like in the AA or NA in the fellowship, the person that comes to the meeting for the first time, they're the most important person in the room, and they tell you that. They say, You are the most important person here today, and it makes them feel welcome because they are the most important person. We all feed off of their newfound sobriety, you know. Um and that Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:21

I think radical honesty as well is the first thing that you've got to be. Yeah, yeah. You've said yourself many times during this uh during this chat, Jimmy, that you rely on to yourself all the time. I think the moment you get you take responsibility for your actions and you're and you're honest with yourself, then you can start being honest with other people around you as well. I think that's a really big step.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:43

Without a doubt. And I think that's what I was saying. Like when you tell your friends and family, be honest with them. Don't like I know a lot of people might say, Oh, yeah, I'm going for a run or I'm working or I want to drive and I've got a big office meeting. Yeah, that's fine. But if you're gonna do this for longevity, you need to tell your friends and family, and they'll they will, they will have your back, do you know what I mean? But you need to be honest with them because if you're not being honest with them, you're not gonna be honest with yourself. And also I think sometimes people don't tell their friends and family because they think if I'm gonna slip, at least I've not made a big deal out of it. So they're already, they're already, they're already dropping in the first hurdle, do you know what I mean? Because they've got they've given themselves that escape route, you know. If you if you tell your friends and family, and like what I did, I put it on I think it was from day 13, I started posting every day on Instagram. It was to hold myself accountable, you know. Um everyone's different, but that's that's what worked for me, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:40

I think dry January and stop October help as well, because that gives that gives you a sort of window when you're not gonna get be judged and they're not gonna think you're so strange or whatever. So I definitely use that when I did dry January. And I remember as soon as February hit, I was like, God, what am I gonna say to people now? Because I don't want to drink anymore. I'm fed up with it. Yeah, but before I could hide behind that, oh, I'm doing dry January, and like you just said, oh I'm driving or whatever. So when people started saying to me, Why aren't you drinking in February? I was like, Well, I did dry January and I feel really good, and yeah, it goes on from there.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:15

But I mean I said I feel I feel better because you do so like well, you know, they're like, Well, why are you not drinking in February? Because I feel good, I don't want to feel like shit anymore. Yeah, it's it's crazy. But I think the Australians, so there's stopped over dry January, and the Aussies I heard yesterday, they do a thing called dry July because it's got a kind of a bit of a rhyme to it. So I'm gonna start coining that over here and see if we can get people because you know what? Like my sober seasons group, when when is this is this coming out this Sunday? Um yeah, it'll probably be next Sunday, Jimmy. Next Sunday, yeah. So um I've got a sober seasons group, just putting a little plug, which is like it runs from the solstice to the equinox and equinox to the solstice. So the new season, Sober Springs, starts on the 21st of March until the 21st of June. So it's just a it's just a free Facebook group for people that just want to get a bit of support. Try the three months. I'm not saying you have to do it forever, but if you try the three months and then see what happens. There's so many people on there now, it's it's growing pretty big. But I was just thinking, so the end of that is like 21st of June, coming up for July, and then we can go into dry July. So yeah, yeah. I think we need to start making that. Because then you've got J you've got you've got January, July, and then October. Do you know what I mean? Summer's over, October's a good time for people to get sober. The more of these things we can get, then then it's true.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:36

A lot of people, I friends and family that I've spoken to, because this is the thing. Like you never really meet anyone that says, Oh, I need to drink more. It's always because deep down they know it's unhealthy and it's not good for them. And they always say, don't they, oh, I need to cut down drinking. So so I'll be talking to people and they'll say, I can give up because I got this festival to go to, I got this holiday to go to, I've got this and that to go to. And it's just like, oh God, I said, Look, there's never a better day than today to stop. So just bloody stop.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:08

Because there'll always be something. There's always gonna be something. There's always gonna be a birthday or a wedding or a festival or a gig or a chess club. I don't know. There's always gonna be something. Do you know what I mean? And that's the thing. And the thing is when you're saying that people go, I need to cut down, I need to cut down, the reason why is because like we were saying, nobody drinks what they drank when they first started drinking. Do you know what I mean? Everybody's everybody's alcohol increases over the years, unless there's a few like random ones, but it does because they're building that tolerance, and that's already on the path to addiction. Because let's be honest, it's a really highly addictive drug, and people are just they're they're rolling a dice with the drinking because, in my opinion, if you're a drinker that uses it regularly, then you're only a couple of traumatic events away from using it as a tool if you're not already. So it is it's walking around.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:59

And that was another thing as well, Jimmy. I remember when I started listening to your podcasts um and you were saying that that it's a drug, and I was like, Well, really? A lot of people don't even know that, do they? It's absolutely mad.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:14

It's a highly, highly addictive drug, and it's like the withdrawal from it. Okay, so people that that get withdrawal from heroin, um I mean, when if you're a heroin addict, right, when you're taking a heroin, it's not to get high anymore, it's to stave off the sickness from the withdrawal. Now, the withdrawal from heroin is, I believe, I've never had it, much worse than the alcohol withdrawal. It takes a lot longer once you get off it, but it can't kill you. You can die from alcohol withdrawal.

unknown 1:20:42

Really?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So if anyone's out there that's that's really struggling and they're getting DTs and withdrawals, they need to seek medical help. They can't just cold target because there is a danger. Like it's not it's not like a mad killer, like there's not people that are just dropping dead from withdrawal, but it can. That's the thing. So people need to seek, you know, proper medical advice or get a detox or whatever before they just cold target. You know, I don't want people to just suddenly think, oh, I need to give up drinking, but they're already drinking a bottle of vodka a day or whatever. Do you know what I mean? It's like Yeah, there's levels to this. There's levels to it. So if they're worried, then they need to seek medical help. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:19

Are there any books or podcasts that you'd like to recommend, uh Jimmy, that have helped you?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:25

Yeah, I mean, well, podcast-wise, um The Sober Awkwards, uh, Vic Van Stone's uh podcast, she's got a brilliant one. She's she's English, but she lives in Australia. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:35

Yeah, it helped me.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:37

Books. So like I know people have read these years ago, um, but uh Alcohol Explained by William Porter. It's just it's just yeah, it's just an amazing, amazing book. It's such a good book for me, such a good book, and Annie Grace's This Naked Mind. Yeah. Just loving those. There's another one, Augustine Burroughs, and it's he's got quite a few books, but they're all kind of related on his childhood. But this one's about when he got when he got cleaned. It might just be called Dry, actually. Yeah, I think it's called Dry, Augustine Burroughs. It's a funny, heartbreaking tale of him just because he was he was rock bottom, but he was still functioning, you know, and it was like, but he was literally getting close to just being sacked from his firm. But he was like right up there, you know. He was like, he wouldn't even drink like a beer, he was out with his mate. His mate was uh uh undertaker, and the two of them would just go out in New York and they just would drink cocktails all night long, cocaine, everything, and it was like just a mad mad story. Um another one is The Out Run by Amy Liptrot, and that's a film as well. It's a great book, um, it's her story. And the film had Sorceron in it, and it came out a couple of years ago. Both great, yeah. The film.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:54

I haven't heard that one. I'll try that one as well. Brilliant. So, Jimmy, where can people find you? What does the next chapter look like for you?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:03

So people can find me. My home, I would say, is Instagram, so it's recovery underscore Jimmy. Um I'm on TikTok recovery. I think. The podcast is YouTube and all major platforms, you know, Spotify, Apple, and all that, and YouTube. It's After Hours with Jimmy Thistle. And yeah, the next chapter is gonna be getting my finger out and writing my book. Like I've been saying this for years, and I did write. I mean, I've written about 30,000 words on it already, but that was kind of way back in COVID days, and I've just kind of been living my life, and now it's like time to that's what I was saying at the beginning. I might take a break after this season of the podcast and just give myself a month or two to just get it going again over the summer and then and then get back to the podcast. And but you know what it's like. Uh I'm addicted to the podcast, I love doing it, I love I love speaking to people. So we'll see if I can fit everything in at once, but that is that's my main next project. Because I've got, you know, the Instagram's going well, the podcast is going well, so it's kind of like they're kind of, you know, they're ticking along quite nicely. Obviously, I want to build the podcast up and up and up and up, but um the book is the next thing, so I really need to get my story down because I don't want to be one of these people that are like, you know, I'm 46 now, like I don't want to be 50 and go, I wish I'd written a book. Should have done it. Even if it only sells one or two copies, I mean, just get it done, get it self-published and then it's out there, you know, like I've written a book. Yeah. So when's the book coming out, Jimmy? When are you gonna I mean I think I think once I get going with it, I will just smash it out. I'm quite like that. Like once I, you know, I'd I'd been talking about doing the podcast for a few years, and then Jen and I got back from Ireland just not not new year there, but the new year before, and I was just like, right, boom, this is happening. And I think by the 17th of January I'd had my first episode out. So it was just it was that quick, you know, and I know with a book you've got to write it, but once I get into the flow and I start doing it, I'm off and running. So yeah. Um next week. By the time you're finished.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:11

Yeah. Jimmy, so thank you so much for coming on today, mate. Um I really appreciate I really appreciate you taking the time out to come on for a chat, mate.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:19

It's been an absolute pleasure, mate. It's been good to see you. We need to we need to meet up and go for a coffee at some point, mate. Now the weather's a bit better and winter's kind of out the way we will do it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:28

No, yeah, because I remember I come down to to you in Port Erin on on the beach, didn't I, last year as well. And you come up to Peel for a coffee as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:36

It's the best beach in the island, mate, down in Port Erin. So yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:39

Definitely, yeah. But yeah, no, thank you so much, mate. Especially for your um for all your all the stuff you do with with your podcast. That really, really helped me with my alcohol-free journey in the beginning, and I'll be forever grateful. You're welcome, mate. And thank you so much for making me feel so welcome here on the Island Man as well, Jimmy. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:00

We yeah, we do need to go out for a coffee, mate, uh, definitely. But we we appreciate you and the other man, mate, and I love your podcast, it's got some great episodes, so it's just a different take on you know the normal kind of stories that you know I kind of do in mind. So yeah, yeah, keep it up, mate. And uh yeah, yeah, I'm enjoying it. Thanks, Jimmy. I appreciate it. Yeah. Cheers, buddy. Cheers. See you, mate. Bye.