Episode 25: From Stroke to Sober: Tom James on Addiction, Rock Bottom & Rebuilding His Life

Tom James had his first stroke at 24. He was drinking heavily, battling ADHD and bipolar disorder, and using alcohol to numb everything he didn't want to face.

The stroke should have been enough. It wasn't.

What finally made him stop? A hallucination at a festival — his future son, begging him to change.

In this episode, Tom shares the raw, unfiltered truth of what addiction looks like from the inside — the shame cycles, the toxic environments, the moments he nearly lost everything. And how he went from that bloke to someone who's lost 60kg and is competing in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

This one's powerful. Don't skip it.

What we cover:

• Growing up with ADHD and bipolar and how that shaped his relationship with alcohol
• The stroke that should have changed everything — and why it didn't straight away
• Rock bottom at a festival and the vision that finally made him stop
• Why removing toxic environments was the real game changer
• How Brazilian Jiu Jitsu helped him rebuild his identity from scratch
• Practical advice for anyone stuck in the cycle right now

Chapters:

1. Introduction and Technical Challenges — 00:00
2. Tom's Journey: From Addiction to Transformation — 01:52
3. Childhood and Early Struggles — 02:24
4. The Onset of Heavy Drinking — 04:54
5. Understanding ADHD and Its Impact — 06:17
6. Recognising the Problem — 09:34
7. The Stroke: A Life-Changing Event — 12:09
8. Life During COVID and Its Effects — 13:07
9. The Role of Drugs in Social Settings — 19:10
10. The Day of the Stroke: A Critical Moment — 24:27
11. The Stroke Experience — 26:59
12. The Road to Sobriety — 30:04
13. The Importance of Environment — 32:51
14. Social Challenges in Sobriety — 36:12
15. Rock Bottom at the Festival — 38:53
16. The Turning Point — 45:10
17. Support Systems in Recovery — 49:08
18. The Struggles of Sobriety — 55:22
19. Transformative Weight Loss Journey — 56:05
20. The Impact of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu — 59:39
21. Rebuilding Identity After Addiction — 01:05:33
22. Advice for Those Struggling with Addiction — 01:08:29
23. The Misconception of Boredom in Sobriety — 01:10:15
24. The Power of Community and Support — 01:12:20
25. Future Aspirations and Helping Others — 01:18:20

Connect with Tom: 

Instagram | TikTok

If you got value from this episode, don’t just sit on it—take action. 

Like, subscribe, and follow the show—it makes a massive difference and helps us reach more people who need to hear these stories. 

Share this with a mate who needs the truth, leave a review, and remember: change doesn’t happen by accident. 

It happens when you get honest, do the work, and show up for yourself and your family.

Stay real, stay relentless, and keep building your legacy—one choice at a time.

For more hard-hitting stories and practical tools, follow, subscribe, and join the conversation.

Let’s be real: your next chapter starts now...

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Hello everyone and welcome to today's episode. Today's guest is someone whose story genuinely stopped me in my tracks. He's 29 years old and he's had a stroke and he was 30 stoned. He then hit rock bottom at a festival where he had hallucinated his future son standing in front of him begging him to stop. But I'll let him tell you that story. That was the turning point. 1000 days later, and he's lost 60 kilograms and he's winning gold medals in jujitsu. This is Tom James, and this is his next chapter. Tom, welcome to the show, mate. Thank you. Cheers, Luke. I appreciate you having me on. No worries, buddy. So before we get into your story properly, Tom, just to give my listeners a bit of context, who are you and what happened all the way back when those a thousand days ago? Just a short version.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

So as Luke uh kindly introduced, my name's Tom James. I'm based on the south coast of England. And a thousand days ago I was deep in alcohol and drug addiction, which had essentially carried on from lad culture and playing rugby and drinking and then letting it get out of control over a number of years. I've always had an addictive personality growing up with ADHD, and I think drink and drugs just became part and parcel of my life and something I used to cope with with my mental health problems, really. So yeah, that's that's where I was at. I became pretty ill physically and mentally, and then decided when my son was born that I needed to make drastic changes in my life.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

So before the spiral, Tom, take me back. What was like uh what was life like as a child? And yeah, were you uh what were you carrying before drinking drugs really kicked off and started?

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Yeah, so I was a bit of a mummy's boy, really. I had a good upbringing, grew up in a in a in a nice neighbourhood on the beach, like working middle class, I'd say. We we we didn't have loads of money, but we always had a roof over over our heads. Me and my brother always had dinner. We're like, we had a good upbringing. Went to school every day and we got the things we wanted, iPods and all that sort of thing, and yeah, good friends. But I mean I was all all over the place at school, really, so up and down, lots of mood swings, falling out with people, and then gradually rebuilding relationships and friendships because I just had a difficulty um managing my emotions ever since I was a child. I always had this energy and this like spark and fire inside of me that I could never control just on my own. I always had to r resort to other things, like expressing myself in different ways, and I think that eventually led to drinking drugs as I got older and discovered all of these things.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Okay, so when did you start drinking heavy? Uh, how old were you and what was going on at the time? It sounds like you really struggled to fit in at school.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Yeah, I yeah, you're absolutely right. Actually, I didn't feel like a normal person at school. I I I was friends with everyone, but didn't really know what my group was. I I had a core group of friends that I'm still friends with now, actually. It turns out they they were true friends, real support group. But I always flitted between different people, like the cool kids, trying to be with them and then hanging out with all sorts of people. I'd say I started drinking heavily when I was probably 19 or 20. I went to university when I was 18, drank a lot there, but everyone did, and it it didn't feel like a problem at the time. But I used to drink until I blacked out because I would just go as hard as possible, black out, and then start feeling really bad about myself and everything. And then when I came home from university, I went to uni in Gloucester, played a lot of rugby, came home and then started drinking quite hard because I was continued to play rugby back back down on the south coast, and my weekends just revolved around rugby and drinking.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

You've mentioned there about ADHD and bipolar. Yeah. Were you diagnosed with that before or after the addiction really took hold, do you think? I mean, or were you sort of were you starting to dabble then anyway?

SPEAKER_00 5:01

So I mean I dabbled minimally at uni. I at uni I had a an idea that I might be might have ADHD because I struggled doing any I struggled doing coursework, I struggled going to lectures, I was always forgetting things. And I actually started investigating and researching about ADHD when I came home and carried on playing rugby, and it was actually after I'd started drinking and doing a lot of drugs. That's when I discovered I had ADHD, and it actually explained a lot about what I'd been through and why I was struggling to maintain like a solid emotional state.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

So the ADHD, you were sort of up and down, you were distracted, you couldn't focus on anything.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

Yeah, yeah, for for my whole life, up until probably five or six years ago when I've started to level out. So I just remember being up and down at school, which is probably part and part of the bipolar, but while while up and down, I just had struggle focusing, had a real hard time focusing on things, organization skills were non-existent, super forgetful, would flip like a light switch with like anger and emotions, and yeah, it was a nightmare, honestly. I could never finish anything I wanted to finish. I would start things, do so well, and then two, three weeks later, they were they were just a complete distant memory. I would then be on to the next thing, and that cycle repeated for a long, long time. And even today I still struggle with it slightly, but um, it's it's so much more under control now.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

I mean, we hear it so much, don't we? There's you know, people, addicts being diagnosed of ADHD. And I think uh alcohol and drugs, they like they quieten the noise, they quite quieten that busy brain, don't they? And it's and it is that escape. Was it like that for you?

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Yeah, absolutely. It's nail on the head, really. As soon as I'd had a beer or a cider, actually, I think about cider quite a lot because in the summer and growing up where I did, and it would I'd have a stressful day at work. I've not managed to finish what I thought I should have. I've been stressed with colleagues or people at school, and then I go and have a pint and I just all of that goes away. And then I suppose the drink was was a good starter for me, and it used to make me feel very relaxed, and I like the taste of it and everything. Like that was again a white part of why we drank. But the drugs then um leading on to the drugs, it then gave me that confidence and actually quieted all of the quiet and all of the noise, and that's when I started to think, I think I've actually got something undiagnosed here because I'm self-medicating massively.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

So, was there a moment like years before the festival while all this was going on where you knew it had become a problem, but you still carried on anyway? And what did you tell yourself? Because I hear this all the time, you know, we we justify our actions with the stories we tell ourselves. What was going on in your head when you were grown up before you hit that rot bottom?

SPEAKER_00 8:13

So I would work I I would have many different jobs because of how much I was struggling, and and then the drink and the drugs didn't help at all. So I would work hard Monday to Monday to Friday, or probably Tuesday to Friday, because I was still hung over on a Monday. And then on a Friday night, I would take, if I was getting paid cash in hand, I'd take basically all of my cash, I'd pay my rent to my dad or whoever it was to, and then I would take my cash, go out with the guys or whoever's around, go and get drunk, start getting on it. And when I was single and didn't have as many responsibilities, it felt like less of an issue for sure. But then I started to feel really, really bad on the Sunday and Monday, almost to the point of not suicidal thoughts at the beginning, but really, really depressed thoughts. I didn't want to go to work, I didn't want to get out of bed, and I thought there's definitely an issue here, but I'm gonna carry on because I'm single and I've got nothing to worry about right now. And then I actually got with my, she's now my previous partner, um, my son's mum, and we that those those bad feelings went away. We we had an amazing few years, and she was there for me, I was there for her, and it's I started to feel better about myself, but then the drink and the drugs started to take over again. There was underlying things that I was trying to sort out and fix in my head, and I wasn't doing the right things, I was just resorting to drink and drugs, and then it got worse because the things I was doing then wasn't just affecting me, they were affecting her and my family and other people, and I was bringing more people into it and started lying to people. That's when I knew I had a real issue, was when I started lying and hiding things from my friends and family.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

How old were you at this point then, Tom?

SPEAKER_00 10:12

I'd say this was probably we're looking at seven, seven years ago, seven, eight years ago. So, yeah, 22, 23 was when I started to really think I need to knock this on the head at some stage that I can't continue like this. If if there was a way that I could wake up tomorrow and be able to have two or three pints, go home and manage that over an extended period of time, then great. But I knew deep down that that was never that was never a possibility because I'd already taken myself pretty far into like deep waters and knew that I couldn't stop. Um and then ha having the stroke, which was a major, major thing in my life. I was in hospital for seven days getting numerous tests and and all sorts of stuff. And a lot of people said and pointed out that this would probably be my be my turning point in it, and it actually was for a few months, and then I slipped straight back into all of the things I was doing before.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

So you had a stroke stroke at twenty-four?

SPEAKER_02 11:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

What was the lead up to that? I mean, if you paint us a bit of a picture just for context. Yeah, sure. What was what was the lead up like and then what was the actual event like? I mean, what happened?

SPEAKER_00 11:34

Yeah, sure. Absolutely. So co COVID hit. So I I had a fairly decent job. I was working an office job in in Bogner Regis, I was working in transport. So I was essentially planning routes for a lorry company. I actually work there now. I've gone back there, I got good friends and and know know people there and managed to rebuild a relationship. But I worked there and my job was to get up in the morning really, really early, plan all of the routes, make sure that the delivery drivers went to where they should be going, collected, delivered, collected, and then came back. And I was working 5 a.m. until sort of 2 p.m. every day. So that was pretty, pretty hard work getting up every morning, especially if I'd been on the sesh on the weekend. I then got a sort of mini promotion into a more like daytime role where I was looking after the team a little bit more, and I was working 9 till 5, and it was a lot that role was a lot more boring. I really liked the morning role, it was pretty exciting. And then there was the news of COVID was coming in, and my friend, we didn't think it was anything was gonna happen, no one did. My friend had a really promising job for me. Someone I worked uh someone I played rugby with offered me a like an apprenticeship gas engineer job, and I the prospect of good money was like really exciting to me because I thought, uh, let's just go for it. They earn really good money, he earns good money, I can have money to buy whatever I want, I can get a better car, I can buy more drink and drugs. So I so I left my quite good job to work with him. The company employed me uh as an apprentice but on a like a decent wage, and then two months later COVID hit and I got put on furlough. And this is where things went from fairly manageable to a lot lot worse because I was seshing on the weekends after rugby or a Friday night and then Saturday, drinking, taking drugs, and feeling shit for a few days, but could handle it and or thought I could. We then went into COVID full lockdown and I was put on furlough, so I was getting paid I think half my wage to just sit in my flat and do nothing. So I was playing video games every day, so this is like midday until midnight every day. My partner was living in her in her home with her mum, they ran a pub. No one knew what what the the hell they were doing because COVID hit and we were chucked into lockdown. But I was I went from fair being a fairly active person to being completely inactive, sitting in a one-bedroom flat all day and all night on my own. My partner at the time was living at her home, which was above a pub that she was running with her mum. So they we were set we were separate, so I was just doing whatever I wanted, which basically entailed drinking all day, playing video games and eating takeaways or shit food all day. And that went on for I'd say two to three months, but that was daily, it was getting that bad. And occasionally I would go out for we were allowed out for half an hour, I'd go for a walk, or I'd walk to the shop to buy more beers and then walk back. There was no it was not there was no exercise about it really, there was no effort to try and better myself. So that definitely started off all of this really sort of low stuff. And it funnily enough, I was drinking and then it was harder to get drugs at that time because everyone was locked down, but there were still a few people knocking about. So I managed to find that and then started doing that again. I'd end up seeing some people, they'd pop into the house or I'd pop out, but that was very rare. I was pretty like hermit unsociable at the time. And I just put on a significant amount of weight just purely from the amount of calories I was in taking, and just not I just wasn't moving at all. So that was really, really bad. Which and then the stroke happened, and me and my partner at the time moved into their family home, and then things started to look up, but then as soon as lockdown was lifted, I went straight back into socialising, but drinking and doing drugs, seeing the seeing rugby friends again, seeing anyone, anyone that would get on it with me. That was that was my aim, really.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

So the lockdown really hyphened everything, it just took everything up a next level. When when you say that in terms of drugs, what are we talking about here, Tom?

SPEAKER_00 16:23

So I I I've always loved a party. I I love music, I'm really into my house music, drum and bass, all electronic music. My my dad's been a DJ for a long time, my brother loves DJing, I love DJing. So if there was a party to be had and there was people out and I was out, I'd love to I I was always there. I was trying to be there. And for a long time, and still to this day, drugs would come hand in hand with that. So I did so I would drink all the time. Then for a long time, I would take pills, so ecstasy, in my local town, that was every weekend for like a year, destroyed my brain for sure, had had an amazing time, but it it catches up with you. Yes, really enjoyed doing all of those types of uh drugs because I and I don't regret them because they actually made me express myself and open my mind to other people and how people felt and my emotions. And then I discovered Coke because and this person isn't around in this area anymore. I'm not even gonna say their name, but someone came from Wales and came to our local area and to our club, like rugby club, and they were just a bad influence on everyone and brought it into the club, and a load of us started getting on it, and then it just spiraled from there. So we were doing I was doing Coke every weekend for a long time. I'd say probably two years maybe. And when I say every weekend, there might have been the one every two months that I'd skip out. I was just I had no money, I was just ruined. I was or or what I would do actually, because I had ADHD in bipolar, but I didn't know it yet, I would be so low that I would do it for ages, then I'd be on a bit of a high and I'd do it, and I might actually level out and think, no, I need to sort my life out now. So then I'd have a week, a week or two off, try and get clean, and then it straight back on it the week after when I'm bored or something goes wrong wrong at work or I've fallen out with someone and I'm just like, okay, we go again. And that's yeah, so had an issue with drink for sure, but my main issue was drink leading to cocaine for sure. Which I think a lot of people my age it it happens and it's really bad, it's not good.

SPEAKER_01 18:51

It sort of goes hand in hand, I think, doesn't it? Drink and coke.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

Yeah, it's uh obviously I I dabbled a lot with ecstasy back in the day, and and of course yeah, I I've done lots of coke as well. When we were travelling back in the day, we yeah we backpacked around South America, so it was it was just what ever all the backpackers done.

SPEAKER_02 19:14

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

But uh yeah, ecstasy never had any any addiction problems or but no it's just a party drug, right? You just want to dance all night and everyone everyone's your best friend. But I think with cocaine it's a very, very different kind of thing. Uh and and you can really get away with it with doing it in a social situation as well.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

Yeah. Yeah, it you're absolutely right. I had some of the best times of my life on it on ease, however, whatever you want to call it, MDMA. And went to some festivals, had some amazing times as well, met met people and really built some strong relationships with friends, but I'm not trying to glorify those those drugs or say they're good, but they they had their purpose in my life. But coke is something that can creep up on you really, really quickly. And from my perspective and the way my friends and family saw me and people that I met, and a lot of my close, close friends have told me this, I they didn't notice a huge difference when I took it, which I think is why I got away with it for such a long time. Because I'd have multiple people that I knew that would do it, and they'd be an absolute nightmare. They'd be smashing the place up, they'd be swearing they'd fall out, they'd fight every night, and they would just look like a nuisance. Whereas myself, because I had the underlying ADHD, it just used to level me out. It was like having a strong coffee or a Red Bull, and it would just level me out, and I'd be like, I can go and talk to whoever I want now and feel really comfortable doing it, but I'm gonna be up all night and then I'm gonna be super depressed the next day because it would just it would suddenly hit me. I would do, I would do a certain amount, and I'm just like I'd switch and I'm in really down, like I've done too much, I can't do more, I'm gonna die, like my heart's racing, blah, blah, blah, and it would just go on and on. And even when I felt like that for a long time, probably about a year, maybe a year and a half, where I knew it was bad, even that didn't stop me. And then, yeah, eventually the big turning point in 2023 happened, and that's when everything stopped.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

So the stroke, were you were you out on a session? Yeah, were you were you on the coke then? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

So let's talk about what happened. So I had I'd been on the sesh three or four days before. Yeah. Not heavy, but for me, for a normal person, it probably was pretty heavy. So I'd been drinking and and doing lines and whatnot. And just fe just not not healthy, not eating well, not sleeping well, not looking after myself. And I woke up in the morning, it was quite a warm day. It was in the middle of summer, actually, during and this was during COVID again, that sort of period of time. And I was speaking to my partner at the time, and I went and had a shower. I got out of the shower and started feeling a bit funny. Just normal day, like morning, get up, shower, get go back to the room, start getting dressed. I started getting dressed, and I was speaking to her about what we were gonna do that day or what. Whatever. And my speech was coming out completely backwards, like all muddled up. And my brain noticed it, but I didn't know what was going on because I was clearly having a stroke and I had no idea what what was happening. But luckily I had enough wherewithal to sort of notice it and like keep speaking to my partner so she would then realise. So she was like, This is really weird. So I checked my phone and I couldn't read my phone. So yeah, so I put I opened socials or Sky News or something, and I was trying to read an an article and nothing made sense. And I was like, This is super weird. Because you've got the what I don't it's hard to explain. When you have a stroke, you've got your this tiny part of your brain still knowing what's going on, just but the rest of your brain just absolutely doesn't work. So you can't express what's going on and you don't really know what to do. So I showed her, told her, and I managed to like get my mum up on my phone and say, call my mum, because my mum had a stroke as well when she was late 30s. So sh so as soon as she picked up the phone, she knew what was going on. We then called an ambulance. I started feeling really funny, quite high temperature, and I started getting a really bad headache, like right in the back of my head, just severe pain shooting through my head. And the the ambulance turned up about half an hour later because of it was peak COVID, and they everyone was really stressing out about spreading and and complete disregard for people that were actually going through stuff. So the the ambulance lady, the paramedics, thought I just had a temperature. And I was like really, I was in a really bad way, and they were like, okay, we're gonna take you to hospital. Took me to hospital, got put in the emergency ward, and I remember getting put on oxygen and starting to feel better, but like up and down. And I called my friends and I started sending my friends voice notes because I was going through like hysteria, like mania. I was like laughing loads, but I was looking at signs and I was trying to talk to people and I couldn't speak. I kept like I knew something was up. Four doctors saw me and said I was having like a migraine or cluster headaches and were gonna discharge me. And then the last doctor, a young lad, really nice guy, came in and said, Nah, there's something really wrong like up with this guy. Let's get him an MRI straight away. So I had an MRI, I think a few hours later, and then he came in my room and said, I'm really sorry, Tom, you've had a stroke. We're gonna have to keep you here for for a for a for a while, probably for like a week, or a few days, they said, and then it just kept dragging on, and I was like, Oh my god. So the tests were inconclusive, all of them, and the stroke doctor that I was dealing with the whole time, an older lady, she's amazing, one of the best doctors I've ever dealt with in my life. She she said, Tom, you've had you've had COVID, because I had COVID previously, you've had the COVID jab, but I mean back then that was a bit controversial. You you you sniff drugs and you like a lot of them and you drink all the time and you're really fat, you're really overweight. All of these things combined are just a recipe for a stroke or a heart attack. And I thought, yeah, she's got a point. What and my mum's had one as well, so what am I gonna do? I can't sit waiting for a a reason, I just need to fix this now. So yeah, that's that's the stroke story. It was it came out of nowhere really, but I'd laid in bed, I'd laid in bed so many times after the sesh, knowing that something was gonna happen to me. So it did come as a shock, but I knew that something was gonna happen if I didn't stop, and I didn't stop, so it did. And it's just yeah, you kind of talk those things into existence if you don't actually fix them. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

Hmm. Yeah, wow. So did you stop drinking drugs after that? I mean, obviously, obviously you carried on, but for how for how long did you stop, or were you straight back into it?

SPEAKER_00 26:40

No, so I stopped for I think four or five months. Oh yeah, so I they my the the really nice lady, the stroke doctor, she said, just don't drink, Tom. Like just people do drink. Like she was like, I'll be honest with you, people start drinking again, but don't. It's not gonna do you any favours. Stay off the drugs, don't drink, and don't play rugby ever again. So that that hit me really hard because basically the one of the medications I'd been put on, flipidograil, was like a big anti-platelet med that when you take it, it it thin it thins your blood basically, but in a different way. And they said if you hit your head on this, you can bleed, you can have real bad internal bleeding and it's not worth the risk. So I was laying in the hospital bed thinking I'm not gonna get to play rugby again, which was my sport, my like I love playing. I can't drink and I can't do drugs, I can't party, I can't do anything. So I was like, this is the worst thing ever. But then I reflected and I had a good few months off of all of it, and I'd say I started to feel better, and I'm trying to actually remember what happened to make me start again because I I r I should I should have cut it all then for good, and most people would have. When something like that happens, it's a real shock, and you should you shouldn't really test the waters again. I think I was so down about not being able to play rugby that I had no purpose and I was struggling with work, I didn't know what I wanted to do, so I just started meeting up with the wrong people and started getting on it again.

SPEAKER_01 28:19

That environment's so important, isn't it? Who you surround yourself with.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

Yeah, environment's the like I speak about it a lot now in my videos and to my friends and family, it's the single most important thing, I think, at the start of sobriety, at least at the start of your journey, to remove yourself from toxic environments, no matter what, whatever it takes. If it's if it's someone's house that you're good friends with, you've got to you can't go there anymore. If it's a family member, you need to cut them out for a little bit. You can always go back once you're feeling better. Rugby clubs, golf clubs, football clubs, cricket, whatever you're doing, and where you if you're drinking all the time and taking drugs, just avoid it for a little while. So yeah, that's that's something that I struggled with for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

You can't go back until you built built up that sobriety muscle, I call it that strength, that strength to stay away from it. Because when you leave the door open slightly, when you haven't shifted, when you haven't changed your identity, there's always a chance that you'll slip back into old ways.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

Yeah, I I love the way you put that, like sobriety muscle. I've not thought of it like that, but it is. It's like a shield, isn't it? You can't you can't you just can't throw yourself back in the deep end when you're when you're not healed and you're not over it, basically. And I would say over the last over the last year, I've passed all of those hurdles now. I'm I'm past those things, um, which has allowed me to think differently about sobriety and the way I act. But a year and a half into my sobriety, I was still struggling with the rugby club, with with pubs, with with any social environments really.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

Yeah, I've I think you need to go through all the all the different events as well, like birthdays, weddings, Christmas. I I've been on a stag dew as well, that was tough.

SPEAKER_00 30:09

Yeah, I bet. I've not done a stag yet.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Yeah, yeah, no, that that is tough. But uh I've I've got a wedding actually um this weekend, so that um and I've I've you know I know plenty of people now in the in the sobriety community, and a lot of them have actually said that it's harder than a stag deal. Yeah, because literally everyone, like literally everyone, like there's obviously lots of people and everyone's drinking and everyone's celebrating, and that's the thing, isn't it? With these big social events, so much of our culture revolves around alcohol, so it's tough. I mean it, you know, it is gonna be tough.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

Yeah, you'll be alright. I I I'm sure you'll absolutely smash it. It's it's the it's hard to find that you have to look deep for that reason to not, and once you realize that, and once you realise that if you do avoid drink for this, whatever this event is, or the few hours or the day, you're just gonna come out the other side even stronger. And it's like it get again. Uh that muscle thing you've said, you'll you're basically flexing and strengthening those muscles every time you avoid it and you get through one of those things because it just makes you tougher.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Yeah, it's so true. And I'll always say to myself and my clients, you've got to play the tape forward. Well, when I'm at the wedding and everyone's pissed and dancing on the dance floor, I'll just be thinking about how great I'm gonna feel in the morning. Um and yeah, there's there's so many different tools and techniques that I'm sure we'll talk about later in the podcast. But uh yeah, uh when you do go to those big social events and you do feel a bit of a little bit left out, that is one of the things that I think, you know, that is one of the negative things about sobriety. It's feeling left out, isn't it? Because we're tribal creatures and we like to be part of the group.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

Yeah, I agree. That's my big that's my that's my thing now that I it's probably one of two things, maybe the only thing that I really struggle with is not feeling part the camaraderie. And I've I figured out a few ways of getting in involved in that and and feeling a bit more involved, but yeah, it it will always be there, and I think it it just makes you it makes you stronger being able to handle that and figuring out ways to deal with it and still have a good time. I just think our fuse is a bit shorter than others, we can't go the whole time now.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Yeah, I know. This is what I say to people. I say, you know, would you tolerate this if if you were sober, would you want to stay out having the same conversation on repeat if if you weren't drinking? Because nothing good ever happens after midnight, and people, yeah, like now I'll go to an event and after two or three hours I'm like, yeah, I'm done. I I'd love to just slip off, you know, just slide away. But yeah, yeah, it's definitely um that's definitely the most testing part. And so many people that I spoke to have been long long term sober, they say that, but it definitely gets easier. I think in obviously in early sobriety, it's a massive change, and it's not just you going through the change, it's all the other people around you who have known you like that for decades.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

It's a lot for them as well, isn't it? For close family and friends to adjust.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

Yeah. I I am so lucky to be honest. I've got some amazing friends and my family are really supportive because I was the like the the party animal, the one that like I would try and light up the rune and and bring people together, and a lot of the time that was because I was like really drunk and having a laugh and and cut I could cut through the awkwardness and destroy that and bring people together. But and those few years when I was trying to get clean or when I was really in some bad recovery and addiction situations, those it got bad. But now I'm back at that point where I can still do that without the drink, and people are complimenting me and giving me props on how far I've come, which makes me feel really good. I just still still can't make it to the end. I don't want I can't put up with people for for as much for as long now. I I went out on um the weekend just gone for my friend's birthday and my 30th, and I was in a club in London until two, and I'm I was so proud of myself. I don't know how I did it, but because I was with all of my close friends and I loved the music, which helped, I just got through, and but I came out of there and I've set I've told my friends this already. I thought I should have gone home two hours ago. One, like there's always a risk there, and two, I'm absolutely fucked, I'm knackered, like I just and then the next day I felt tired and I was like, I should have just gone, like I can't do this. But it was good, it was a good test.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

Just imagine how you feel though if you were uh on the drink and drugs, you'd have been, oh my god, ten times worse. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Oh, it would have been it would have been awful, and that's why I was so happy I did it in the end.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

So the rock bottom moment then, Tom, when you're at the festival, t talk us through that please.

SPEAKER_00 35:13

Yeah. So went to a festival in Bristol actually, a pretty small a small like 90s old school festival. My my mum and dad were there, my dad was DJing. My mum and dad, by the way, they're just they like a drink and they like DJing, they're not into any of that other stuff. Like, and my dad plays really good music, old vinyl, and I really wanted to go and see him. So I decided to go up there, go and meet a friend the night before on the Friday, and we went into Bristol. He's from Bristol, and I'm trying to remember. I was drinking very sporadically at the time. My son was three months old, and I was I was actively trying to stop, but and people around me knew I was trying to stop, but it they were it it was hard for them to tell me no. They've they've pandered to me for years, I suppose, and they didn't want to upset me, they didn't want to argue with me, so they just let me learn my lesson and let me get on with it. So on the Friday, I had five or six beers with my friend in Bristol, went to bed at a reasonable time, and that night actually made me think, oh, I'm gonna be I'm fine, I can drink, because I didn't get on it, and I went to bed and I woke up and I felt alright. So I made my way to the festival with him, met my family and some friends, started drinking, that escalated, found some hippie dude and found loads of drugs, like there was just all it was very like hippie and part just old school. Ended up taking a load of pills, then kept drinking ciders, beers, whatever I could get my hands on. Bear in mind, like I'm a big guy now, I'm about 21 and a half stone, so I'm a big dude, I'm 6'4, but at this point I was around 2930 stone, big clothes didn't fit, sweating like profusely because it was sunny in the middle of this festival dance floor, an absolute mess, could barely walk, like really, really bad way. Like if anyone from the outside looked in, they'd and knew what was wrong with me, they'd probably be like, mate, he really needs help. But because everyone knew me and probably seen me go up and not noticed it as much, so I then I think I found a bit of coke and then basically was dancing with my brother in this big festival tent area, and some old guy gave me I what I'm sure it was ketamine, and I've done that a few times in my life, but it always messed me up, and this really, really messed me up. And uh this this was just at the end of a whole day of doing all sorts of other stuff, so my system was just full of everything, and I don't remember how I got out of the tent, but I was like warping in and out of stuff, like p trippy people probably find this great, it wasn't great at all. I thought I was gonna die, and I remember coming to sort of, and I was sat down in the field, I was hallucinating, my hands didn't look real, all sorts was going on, and there was someone taking my heart rate and my blood pressure, it was like a paramedic. And then I started hallucinating, and so my son was three months old, and the hallucination was him growing up, like getting older and older, and him basically just explaining to me or begging me to stop doing what I was doing for such a that I'd been doing for such a long time, and my partner at the time was also in it, and just it was just horrific, and it was like stop, stop, stop, and I just kept seeing it, and I do I still thought I was gonna die, like I felt like I was in a really, really bad way. And then some really nice guy came along, picked picked me up, big guy, picked me up, and like escorted me back to my where I was staying. And for all I couldn't sleep all night, I was just worrying about my worrying about myself, what I'd got myself into, like how have I got this deep and like why am I still doing these things? And really upset my mum and dad. My mum drove me back from that morning from Bristol all the way back to Bogner Regis, and then she drove from Bogner all the way back to Bristol in the same day. Like she was so worried about me, bless her. Like, she just wanted me to get home, and then I had to explain myself to my partner at the time and look at my son who's a baby, and I just thought, I can't do this anymore. I can't, I can't, I can't continue to put myself in situations where I'm that vulnerable. Like I'm a huge like guy, I played rugby all my life, I'm a bloke, and I was completely vulnerable, like I couldn't, I had no control over what I was doing, and I thought I'm if I carry on like this, I'm gonna die or I'm gonna end up like taking my own life because I felt so bad every time I did that. And yeah, I just looked at my son and thought, no, I can't, I can't do this anymore. And yeah, I haven't had a drink since that day. So that that was absolutely rock bottom, I'd I suppose. I mean, there's times previously where I'd felt more depressed, like doing coke regularly at home, like at home or in the local town, and then going through those all-nighters, not sleeping. I felt more depressed in those times and like suicidal, but this time was so close to like death and the message that I received through the hallucination and the fact that I had a baby just was the turning point where I thought I can't continue to do any of this anymore, and that means not drinking ever again. Because if I drink I can do anything after, no one knows who knows? It's the gateway drug, and it is a drug.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

Yeah, exactly. It's so so many people don't even know that it's a drug.

SPEAKER_00 41:09

Yeah.

unknown 41:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

It's the mo it's the most used, abused one of all.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

Yeah. So you were full of guilt and shame at that point. So who was the first person you told that you want wanted to go sober? Was it your partner at the time?

SPEAKER_02 41:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

Yeah, it would have yeah, it was her. And me and her aren't together now, but I'm not gonna go into that reasons why. But she was amazing, she supported me so much through the for the for the whole of my sobriety. I didn't always appreciate how much she did do because when you're when you're trying to get sober, you're incredibly selfish. And I've been selfish over the last uh over the last three or four years, really selfish, and it's it's sad because I have I've got clean and I've managed to maintain it, and I'm happy and I'm really, really grateful. It's the best thing I've ever done. But you do neglect other people in your life when you do it because you have to be selfish, and for me to stop, I had to think a lot about myself and do things that made me feel good that that weren't drinking. And as a result of that, sometimes relationships and friendships can break down. And yeah, she supported me greatly. She was the person I told, and she knew before so before this situation, before the festival, she'd known for a while that I wanted to do it. I just never did it properly.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

When you say relationships broke down, do you mean because you literally can't go out drinking with them because you know where it's gonna lead?

SPEAKER_00 42:47

Yeah, probably, yeah. So certain friendships I'm I'm not involved with anymore. I mean, if I saw them now, I would say hello, and we could probably be friends again if we wanted to. But yeah, you have to start stop hanging around with certain people. I d I didn't go like even like going on date nights or anything like that, because it'd be like, Oh, I can't have a drink, or what are we gonna talk about, or I can't go to the pub with you and enjoy a drink now. I'm such an idiot. So I just and this is this is me being really raw and open and honest. I basically just did what I wanted for a few years to basic to avoid drinking because I knew drinking was the ultimate problem and it would lead to really bad things, but then I was just selfish, so I'd just sit inside and like watch TV or play games or go to the gym every day, come back and just be just be selfish. And I really hate that I did that, but that's how I coped at the time. So yeah, I don't however, unless you've been in our shoes or in my shoes and been through what I have with the stroke and the festival and all of those days where I've near I a couple of times I genuinely did consider ending my own life. But until you've been in that situation or been addicted to something, you'll never know how it feels. And that's not me saying that people can't understand it and support you, but they don't know the depths of they don't know how far down you were and what you've done to get back up. So, but yeah, everyone everyone in my circle now and in my life is super super supportive and they understand what it takes to get. There.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

Yeah, it mean it means so much, I think, to have that supportive group because when you're when you're an addict as well, it's just you can feel so isolated as well, can't you? Yeah. But so then when you go sober as well, it trying to do it on your own, again, that's just it's just it's so so tough. But if you've got people around you, I mean, like you've just said, they're never really gonna understand what's going on in your head, but they're gonna support you.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

Yeah, absolutely. And I'm in terms of uh sober people in my life, so one of my good friends that these two won't mind me saying their names actually, my good friend Ben, he's nearly seven years sober. We used to play rugby together, and he's a massive inspiration of mine. He's he's um he's running a really successful floor in business, he's got a family, and all of that stemmed from him stopping drinking because he had some issues with that, and his life has just elevated beyond belief, and he's an amazing person, so he's been by my side throughout. And then my best friend Chris, he he's actually I didn't even realise this until a couple of years ago, he stopped drinking before I got clean, and he again he won't mind me saying this, he never had a problem to the extent I did, but he just hated the anxiety and the hangovers, so he was like, I'm just gonna knock it on the head. And I don't know if he's done this on purpose, maybe if he watches this and listens to it, he might be able to tell me or not. But him not drinking has helped me so much that I don't even think he realizes. Because when your best friend doesn't drink, that's the perfect person to have by your side. Because if I want to do something with someone that doesn't involve drinking, he's there. We we train together, we do things together, and he's someone I really look up to because whether he meant it or not, or whether he did it for his own self or who whatever he did it for, it's helped me so much, and uh yeah, I want him to know that because yeah, there's people in there's people in your life that uh are selfless, and he's one of those. Having a wingman is so important.

SPEAKER_01 46:31

Yeah, exactly. I think yeah, I think again, it's it's it's it's being part of the tribe, isn't it? It's being it's being it's being the outcast, and that's what's so hard when you when you first go sober. But I remember at the wedding that I'm going to this weekend, there was one other sober person there, and I I was like, oh my god, I'm so thankful. Yeah, and that's it. Yeah, brilliant. And I was just like, oh mate, I'm so glad that you're here because if I was the if I was the only one that was sober on this stag day, like 20 blokes, it would have been so awkward. So that was great. And another thing that really resonated with what you just said, that the anxiety for me, that was that was probably the biggest thing because I used to suffer with anxiety back in the day and panic attacks quite quite badly. And yeah, alcohol would always bring that on so much, especially mixed with caffeine the next day. I'd have a coffee in the morning when I was hung over and I would feel terrible. And for for years I just didn't know why. I just thought, you know, I was a bit hungover, I was stressed out, I was overworked or whatever. But I didn't really know well, back then the internet wasn't about and things were very different, and now we're a lot more self-aware, aren't we? But yeah, yeah, anxiety, like the hangxiety and not having that for me. When I tell like friends and family that still drink heavily, when I hear hear them moaning and being hung over the next day, and I just think, oh my god, I'm so I'm so grateful that I don't feel like that anymore, because that was a massive part of my life for so long.

SPEAKER_00 48:03

Yeah, yeah, I I resonate with that completely. I I I still get anxious to this day, really. With if I if I care if I overload the c the caffeine too much, even like because I think I'm quite sensitive to things now, even if I have too much caffeine or or eat a little bit bad, I start getting anxious, and I'm like, thank god I don't do all the other things because I'd be an absolute mess. And the I've I've only I think I don't know if I've had time, I've definitely had one very bad panic attack and I didn't realise what it was until after it happened, and that was after a real heavy night of everything. I actually I was working, I was doing some landscaping at someone's house, and this this is crazy. Like I it was not normal at all. Someone was my boss was chopping a tree down and he was dropping the branches that lead all of the stuff down to the bottom and I was cleaning up and I felt rough, really rough, hung over on a massive come down, and someone pulled up in a car behind me and sat there for a little bit. They must they were probably just on their phone or having lunch or something. For half an hour, I hid around, I was like paranoid, panic attack, whatever it was. I hid around where we were working, and I sat there panicking, I breathing. I thought I was gonna die because I thought they were gonna come and like attack us or something, and I was like, what is going on? This is crazy, like this this isn't normal. And it took me a good hour to get over. I told my boss, and he was like, What's wrong with you? It is like a proper lad, like he's like, What's wrong with you, mate? Blah blah blah. And I and I remember something like that happening when I was a kid as well. So I think when it's deep rooted in you, and then you add all of these things into it, you're just you're fucked, basically. You're not you don't give yourself any good chance to get through it. But yeah, I yeah, I appreciate you telling me that because the the hangs are is awful, it was so bad.

SPEAKER_01 50:01

Yeah, I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I remember my first panic attack, I thought I was having a heart attack. Yeah, luckily, my well, it's not luckily, but luckily for me, my my dad used to suffer with it a lot when he was younger, and he had exactly the same. His first panic attack, he drove himself to the to the local hospital in Bristol uh because he thought he was he thought he was dying, and that is the way you feel. You get so overwhelmed, you start hyperventilating, your uh your heart's beating out your chest, everything tenses up, you can't breathe, you feel like you've been suffocated, it's it's so overwhelming. It you can't really explain it. It's like an out-of-body experience almost, it's horrible. Yeah. And um, yeah, and touch wood, I haven't never I haven't felt like that since I've been sober. I've had little, little bits of it creep in every so often. But yeah, when when you're feeling really low, and I remember my dad telling me this when I started getting them, he said it you will suffer with hangovers with it. So be be warned when you're low and your body is really struggling, lack of sleep, obviously coming down from drinking drugs, whatever it might be as well, that cocktail in your body, um, you're really gonna struggle. So yeah, be warned. And yeah, he was right. So yes, horrible, horrible, horrible thing.

SPEAKER_00 51:12

Yeah, I'm glad you don't deal with those anymore because they're not they're not good. Like and that uh again, another amazing reason not to drink, so yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 51:22

So uh 60 kilograms uh l in weight loss as well, uh Tom. Take us through that journey. How did you do that?

SPEAKER_00 51:31

So just hard loads of hard work, like and this is there's a lot to be said about the medications that I've been put on because so I was diagnosed with ADHD around six years ago, still didn't which really helped mentally, and then it helped me start to focus on things and finish things and that sort of thing. I then was really heavy when I had my son and made after the festival I thought I need to get clean, but I also need to get healthy. There's no point me getting clean and then not starting to lose some weight and eat better. So over the last two and a half, three years, I essentially got an active job. So I got out of the office, I started gardening again, which is what I did when I was 19. So I started gardening, which upped my steps. I started losing weight very slowly by doing that. I was still eating really bad, and to this day I'm not very good with my food, I'm up and down with food. I think that's that's my next battle, but it's one that I'm dealing with. So it's just more active through job because I knew if I could get a job that was active, then it I have to walk. So I started doing that. I then cut out the booze completely, so that's helped massively. Cut out the drugs, so that meant I wasn't doing drugs and then having huge binge eating sessions and stuff. I still was really bad eating takeaways for a long time, so I stopped eating takeaways mainly. I might have one every couple of weeks now, max, maybe one every three weeks, but yeah, they're really rare now, which is great. And Brazilian jiu-jitsu, so that is the if I didn't start jujitsu, I reckon I'd still be around 26, 27 stone. I would have only lost a couple of stone, then just stayed there. But yeah, jujitsu has changed my life, and there's loads of this guy that has been for years. People that get into jujitsu, it'll make you a better man, all of this stuff. But for me, it's been the perfect tool or the perfect sport to get into when I've come from rugby, so it's very, very physical. I can people can hurt me, and I can try and hurt people. That's like what I used to love doing at rugby. You get hurt if you're not careful, you can get really hurt. So it's there's like danger, the element there, you're in real danger, you're trying to survive. So I get like a thrill, like a bit of a high from that, adrenaline. And it's just so it's super active. You're wrestling with people and grappling and trying to take each other's heads off for an hour at a time, hour and a half. And yeah, so 60 kgs down. I want to lose another 1520, but it's slowed down a little bit. Life has gotten the way, I'm working, I'm it I understand now that not everything's a a race to cook utter completion as quick as possible. It's just I'm chipping away at it, and I have done for two and a half years.

SPEAKER_01 54:26

How did you start the jujitsu then? Because so many people I speak to, so many entrepreneurs, so many people in the self-development space, they rave about it. They say, Yeah, I I've never I've never done it. I've I boxed um when I was younger and my son and my son boxes now. But yeah, I don't think you can really compare you know compare the two. I mean, obviously they're compact sports or whatever, but yeah, everyone raves about this jujitsu. Why, why is it how did you start it and why why do you think it's so good?

SPEAKER_00 55:00

So I started because Chris, the guy I spoke about earlier, that has been sober for like three and a half, nearly four years. He me and him played rugby together for our whole careers, and we played front row, both played prop, and we're like tight as anything. He started doing jujitsu when we started getting away from rugby after lockdown, and I saw what he was doing, and I've always loved MMA because I watch UFC, and jujitsu is a pivotal part of mixed martial arts, and it's a lot more accessible than MMA because you don't have to get punched in the head and you don't get elbowed, and you can do jujitsu as a hobbyist and come away pretty unscathed as long as you're careful, and you don't have to compete, you can go and train two times a week, go to a couple of classes, and just move through it like that. So I spoke to Chris. I probably spoke to him for like a year before I actually committed because I was so scared. And then one day I did a trial class, turned up in the morning with him. I then spoke to the head coach Jack McGee at Mad Hatters Asylum in Chichester. So it's like 20 minutes from me. Jack said, Yeah, come down. I signed up and I've not stopped since. I've had little breaks where I've been injured or I've got a skin infection. But yeah, I do the 6 a.m. classes, which is amazing for someone like me. Amazing for like sober people, I think, because you need something to get up for, and it hits the day running, and then you go to work and you feel amazing. So there's a 6am class Monday to Friday, which is insane. And why why the gym one of the reasons the gym's popular, amongst many other reasons, and I kept doing it because it's a challenge, you feel physically and mentally challenged. It's like playing human chess against someone. You're trying to gain a dominant position on another individual while they're trying to gain a dominant position on you, so it's very back and forth, and the end goal is to control them for enough period of time to win points and score points and beat them in a match, or to submit them, choke them, or manipulate one of their joints to make them tap out. So it's it's really good for mental stimulation as well as physical output and expending all the energy you have, basically. So yeah, it's it's amazing. I'd recommend it boxing it. I I I actually really want to try boxing now because I just want to learn to defend myself on the feet as well as on the ground. I got my blue belt within a year, which is pretty quick, but I wanna we went to a grading and there was a white belt Jack, the coach put a white belt like little mini tournament on, and I ended up winning that alongside one of my friends, and we both got promoted to blue belt, which was amazing. I still feel like a bit of a fraud though, because I'm not that skilled, I'm just a bit of a big guy, but he wouldn't have given it to me if he didn't trust me with it. So um, yeah, it's an it's an amazing sport. I don't intend on ever stopping, and I recommend it to anyone. Just go and try it, and then if you don't like it, you don't have to continue. Most gyms do a trial session, so you can just rock up, speak to the coach, and they'll let you try it out.

SPEAKER_01 58:10

It gives you a real sense of purpose as well, I guess. A bit like the gym, it it gives you that that focus as well. And obviously, you're doing it with other with other men as well, so you get that you get that bond as well, don't you?

SPEAKER_00 58:24

Yeah. Also, I will say a lot of the lads that I train with don't drink now. They they do jujitsu or they do other things in life, and they just realise that the drink sometimes holds them back, and a a couple of them j drink very sparingly, a couple of them are fully sober, and we just love it because it gives us purpose, it gives us competition, there's real camaraderie. We like we like tapping each other out, we like beating each other up, and we take the piss, we you can go in and I remember one of my first classes I went in. I think I got submitting by submitted by a 15-year-old boy. I've been submitted by tiny girls multiple times, and that's because they're super, super skilled, and when someone's been training for so long, it doesn't matter how big you are, they're gonna fuck you up, and that's that's the beauty of it.

SPEAKER_01 59:18

Yeah, no, it yeah, it it it it sounds brilliant. I I remember watching it for the first time and just being really judgmental. It's like, oh look, look at that, it's stupid. Two blokes rolling round on the floor, I look stupid. Coming from a boxing background, that's that's the way I see it. But yeah, but so many people I speak to, like yourself and others, rave about it. It just makes me more and more curious to try it. So may maybe I will try it one day.

SPEAKER_00 59:46

Yeah, you'll have to come over and try it with us lot.

SPEAKER_01 59:49

Yeah, real mate. I'll I'll take you up on that. What um what do you think is the hardest part of getting sober then, Tom?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:01

There's there's there's lots of difficult parts. I think the hardest part is rebuilding your identity because you have to rebuild yourself as a person. There's no you are going to change. And people say that it's hard to change, but you will. If you stop drinking and stop taking drugs, you're gonna change, and ultimately it will be for the better. Some people might not see it like that, so you need to let go of those opinions, thoughts, and feelings that are affecting you because the sole purpose of you getting sober is to make sure that you can live a fulfilling life and become the person you've always wanted to become and achieve your dreams and not be a let down and and live in mental health crisis all the time and and just not have to put yourself through those really difficult times. So, yeah, the hardest part is facing the fact that you are going to change drastically and then and then living with that and and and becoming a new person, basically, because I have. I'm I'm still I'm still the same person I was before, don't get me wrong, but I have built a new skin and a new toughness and and essentially a new identity because I'm not that person anymore.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:13

I think life's all about evolution as well, about evolving and changing, and it and it's it's if you keep living the same life on repeat from your twenties till you die, I I think it's a wasted life. So and you made a really good point. A lot of people will not want to see you change because they like the old you. But I always say to people, I said, Yeah, but you know, they haven't got a live in your head, and it all looks good from the outside, doesn't it? Since I've gone sober, so many people have said to me, Luke, I never knew you had a problem. And I go and I'll always say to me, Yeah, but you don't know, you don't know why I was going through it internally, you know. Yeah. Not just through social media, you know, we we wear so many different masks, don't we? And we put on a front to so many different people.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:57

Like you were saying earlier, you know, you were the life and soul of the party. A lot of people in your group would have only ever seen you when you were on the sesh.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:05

They don't see you when you're, you know, when you got your when you're looking at yourself in the mirror in, you know, early, early on the morning on that Sunday or or that Monday morning or whatever it might be, thinking, who the fuck am I?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:18

Yeah, yeah, literally. I didn't I lost myself for a long time and I I'm still discovering myself now. Like I've I've been having some difficult days recently, but but but I've I'm equipped now to deal with them. I have the tools in my arsenal to deal with these difficult situations. And if I had if I'd never got sober, I'd still be in a really but I don't even think I'd be here to be honest. Mot multiple people that know me quite deep have said the same thing. They don't think I'd be around. And probably physically it might have come down to physical health, but I think even mentally I just wasn't I wasn't there anymore. So it's the most important thing I've ever done. And anyone that's thinking about doing it needs to go for it and not worry about what anyone else thinks, because at the end of the day, you're the most important person. And if you've got a family, which is a huge thing, you need to be there for them, and you need to be the the person that they need as well. So yeah, it's a it's a it's a tough change, but it's worth it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:14

It leads me on nicely to my next question. So for anyone listening, yeah, and they find themselves going down that same path and they really resonate with your story, yeah. You know, they're they're starting to drink more and more, they're they're hiding drink, they're starting to lie. What would you say to them?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:35

I would firstly ask them what's happened. It I need to know what's been going on and what do you think's happened that's led you to this that that has brought you to this point in your life. And just tell them to hang in there. Like it's gonna be difficult, you're gonna slip up, but admitting it and telling someone about it is is the first step. And that's I'm so proud of anyone that can do that, and and not just uh with drinking and taking drugs, and it if they're doing anything in their life they're not proud of, or that all they know is damaging them physically, mentally, or even hurting people around them, admitting that they have a problem and then coming to terms with it is the first step, and I think it's really important. So I tell them that I'm here for them, that that there is support there now. Because even five or six years ago, and nah, four or five years ago, when I was thinking about getting clean, luckily I had my friend, but uh Ben to to sort of lean into. I don't remember seeing any of this content back then. I've got a note, I've got a note about the only celebrity I knew that was sober was Steve O from Jackass, and I was like, and if Steve-O could get sober, then anyone on planet Earth can. But if you want it, then then it's there. But yeah, I'd just tell them to hang in there and keep at it. You have to keep trying.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:56

What do you say to anyone who says being sober is boring?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:04

They haven't discovered the life past drink and drugs yet because I'm far from boring. I this weekend I had an amazing time, it was great. I not one part of it was boring. At the start of at the start of sobriety, at the start of getting clean, it may feel boring for a for a period of time because you're so used to chaos. There's nothing wrong with boring at the start, because you need to avoid those things that weren't boring because you're never gonna get out of it otherwise. But yeah, sober people aren't boring, they're actually people discovering life and learning to live within their own heads and not dealing with it in a destructive way. So yeah, I hated that. You know, I there's certain people that could say that to me, and I'd take it fine, and I'll be like, yeah, like you're taking the piss. But the majority of people that say that they just don't get it, and they probably never will. But the people that want to change and the people that have drank or going for addiction or recovery, they know that uh it's not boring once you get past it.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:09

Yeah, once you get past it, it's it's a really good point. You've literally got to rewire your brain, haven't you? Your brain, your brain has been like that for years and years and years, and you've got it's got to relearn almost in a social. set in in in so many different ways because it's alcohol really does take over and it's been such a big part of your life and and your identity um so you're always gonna have um you're always gonna have that moment aren't you like those and it's gonna be different for everyone it's gonna be weeks it might be months whatever it might be but yeah it's about pushing through that resistance and knowing and like you said before it's so good to have all these you know social media I always say it gets a bad rap but it really really helped me um Instagram really really helped me on my sober journey looking at all these people that were ahead of me and they inspired me yeah for sure I'm you it's it's weird because I I completely agree with you you see different people from different courses uh that that are on different parts of their life and their journey that have got sober and it might be from drink or it might just be from drugs and they're all they're they're they're men women they they could be from any background any age and they've all been through it differently but the key thing is we all share experiences and that's how we can all relate and that's why I think a lot more people are getting sober now because they're seeing other people manage and do really really well in life without drinking drugs and that's one of the main reasons that I've managed to stick with it because people that I look up to and people that have got sober they've all got something about them they've all they've they've got a good career going on they're really good at sport they've got an amazing family they're super fit they're super healthy they might or they just ooze confidence and and stuff like that and that's what I want to try and get across to people is that once you get past that point and you start to live with being sober you can achieve anything you put your mind to and I've put my mind to a few things now since getting clean and I've managed to achieve most of them so I just want to keep pushing on and anyone that anyone that can get clean and pull themselves out of that dark hole can do anything else. I agree 100% I think it's all about having that clear vision and who do you want to be I mean I always say to people who do you really want to be who do you look up to if you want to carry on drinking and and I don't want to sound condescending and judgmental but pissing your life away then that then that's fine and some people will do that. But if yeah but if you look up to other people and they're sober and they're living that and they're living their dream they're they're living up to their full potential because I think it holds so many people back doesn't it all the all you know all the time that's wasted not just with the hangovers with with the staying up drinking so late and so many other things and it and it always gets into so many different aspects of our life and yeah like you said you you need to find someone that really inspires you that you look up to and yeah just just just push through that resistance and it's always going to be there in the beginning but on the other side of that can be something so special.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:32

Yeah yeah you've got to break through that initial barrier that the pain the hurt and it's not going to be easy for the whole time but it just it does get easier because you build like you said earlier that that that sober muscle but that shield and you just you learn to deal with different environments different aspects different situations and confrontations and conversations differently as you get further along your journey and yeah things start bouncing off you and you just start to feel invincible but in a good way still humble and wholesome and someone that knows what it's like to be back there because it could happen at the flick of a yeah it could switch and go back so you've just got to be careful.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:13

But all of the people I look up to in my life don't they don't drink excessively anymore and they don't do drugs and if they do it's very very rarely these are all people I really care about look up to and that inspire me and I think that's saying something if you look up to people that are really really drinking heavily in on the drugs then then that might you might need to rethink that because that's just not where I want to be it's it's people with self with high self-worth as well I think people that really well they like and love themselves and they got and they built up so much discipline I mean they say don't they discipline is the highest form of self-love because they want to look after themselves and and I'll say I'll say to people I'll say to clients I'll say we you know you only get one vessel you only get one body if you knew that you only had one car for the rest of your life how would you treat it? You would treat it so well wouldn't you and and people think like you you tell people that and you're like and they're like oh god yeah wow you know we neglect our body so much and we put it through so much shit and uh yeah I just I think health is so so important and I've seen so many people decades ahead of me that are struggling now and they've um they've had addictive personalities whether they've smoked a lot whether they've drank a lot whether they've ate really poorly and I just don't want to be like that and I don't want to be that that role model. I I want to be the decent role model for my kids.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:44

Yeah yeah you will be for sure you're setting the tone setting an example and that's that's all we can do isn't it we're trying our best at the end of the day and if that means not drinking and um not getting on it then then so be it. And I still I still struggle with a few other things that I that are now next like I said earlier about the food. I go through spells of eating really well and then eating pretty poorly but then I manage to maintain a decent level so that I don't put on loads of weight again but I'm not getting to where I want to be as quick so that's something I need to work on. The way I think about I don't gamble anymore. I used to gamble sometimes when I was drunk so but that was never a major issue for me luckily but even things like scrolling on social media and wasting time being procrastinating not using my time effectively enough or even being present with my kid with with my son and things like that. So those are things that I'm working on gradually but yeah being being sober every day is one of the most important things to me for sure. We're all a work in progress that's for sure yeah so Tom if you could go back and speak to your younger self what would you tell them I would say hang in there it's gonna be okay work hard I would tell myself to train hard in in anything I do so in rugby but enjoy it have fun and be nice to be nice to my mum and dad tell them to to just think a little bit more about that. But when we're teenagers we don't do that but yeah I'd tell them to appreciate it and just enjoy yourselves because I did enjoy myself as a kid and I didn't have any issues like that as a child I was a really me and my brother are really good kids and we we weren't into trouble. We weren't causing issues where we lived and stuff so I wouldn't say too much to be honest I would just say it like you'll be alright don't don't panic too much. Just keep going yeah just keep going and work hard. That's the most whatever you do try and do it to the best of your ability focus and keep your head down. Yeah exactly what does the next chapter look like for you then Tom and where can people find you so I'm in terms of next chapter I'm gonna keep working hard who knows where it could go I work full time so I work full time in transport and it's it's it pays the bills. I'm good at it but it's not what I want to do. So I have recently created a w I built a website and I've started to reach out to people that have reached out to me on TikTok and Instagram so I've created a website called soberlifeco.co dot uk and in the process of building a business essentially oh wow brilliant okay and the aim is to become a coach and help people I already I already sort of am I'm just not I'm not monetizing any of it at the moment and I don't intend to coach for capital gain until I've had a number of clients first so and and got some good testimonials and actually helped people so that's my aim so build it up really slowly while I work my full-time job but I love creating content I I like creating sort of humorous like reels about about drinking drugs but also that identify yes it can be funny at the time but I've got through the other side and if you do it a lot it's not but also telling my story and tips and tricks to staying clean lots of workout stuff jujitsu stuff that sort of thing really so I I I want to help people I've always really loved helping people the best jobs I've ever had in life have always been customer service focused and helping people directly I just get a buzz out of it it's what makes makes me happy so ultimately I want to be able to make a living helping people and not be tied down to a nine to five and and live my dream and and run a business and be there for my family and spend time with them.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:55

There's no feeling like it when you when you help out people that you've been in their shoes you've you know you've sort of you've walked the past for yourself and if you can give back the the sense of fulfillment that you get is is incredible and yeah I think it's a brilliant thing what you're doing Tom and obviously I found you um I think it was Instagram or or TikTok I can't remember which one but yeah yeah thank you so much for coming on today mate it's been a great chat it's been raw it's been honest it's been everything that this podcast you know was always meant to be and yeah I've had a great time having a chat tonight mate and I I really wish you you know all the luck in your future mate because I think I think you're gonna be a brilliant coach and yeah you're doing great things mate.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:43

Yeah thanks Luke I really appreciate you having me on it's I I was unsure of how this was going to go because this is the first experience I've had with this I've watched loads of podcasts I look I looked your website I really like your website I like your page and yeah I'm just glad I'm glad to be on and and this is the best thing for us isn't it exposure pushing ourselves out getting out there putting ourselves into uncomfortable positions because that's when we grow so yeah I hope to we can I hope to catch up again for sure because it was really good and I hope to just carry on helping people that's what I want to do with my life I want to help people that have been in my position.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:20

Yeah I'm sure we'll collaborate in the future Tom for sure but no thanks for coming on and giving up your time mate I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:27

Cheers Luke thank you mate cheers Tom