Episode 26: From Law to Latte: Jamie Blair's Entrepreneurial Journey

Jamie Blair traded a career in law for something far less predictable — building Roots, a thriving cafe business on the Isle of Man that's become as much a community hub as a coffee shop. 

In this episode, Jamie opens up about the early days of brewing soft drinks in a utility room, the setbacks that nearly derailed him, and why he now sees failure as fuel rather than a full stop.

We talk about what it really takes to build something from nothing on a small island, how community became the backbone of the Roots brand, and Jamie's new venture — The Offline Club — bringing wellness and real-life connection back into people's routines. If you're chasing a vision of your own, or wondering whether it's too late to start over, this one's for you.

What you'll hear:

• How Jamie went from studying law to brewing drinks in a utility room
• The mistakes that taught him the most about running a business
• Why community, not just coffee, is what makes Roots work
• The mindset shift that turned failure into momentum
• Jamie's vision for The Offline Club and what's next

Chapters:

• 00:00 – Introduction and tech mishaps in recording
• 01:00 – Jamie Blair's background and journey into entrepreneurship
• 02:24 – The early days of brewing soft drinks and building Roots
• 06:03 – Overcoming setbacks and the importance of persistence
• 08:28 – The role of failure and feedback in growth
• 10:38 – The significance of community and the Isle of Man
• 13:49 – Roots as more than a cafe: building a brand and community
• 17:00 – Lessons learned from early mistakes and embracing failure
• 20:15 – The journey through challenges and the power of resilience
• 23:20 – Mentoring new cafe owners and mindset shifts
• 30:39 – The Offline Club and mental health awareness
• 40:09 – The importance of having a North Star and vision
• 44:20 – Jamie Blair's future plans and big vision
• 55:12 – Closing thoughts and inspiration for entrepreneurs

Connect with Jamie:

Website: https://imjamieblair.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jamie_rootss/

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Share this with a mate who needs the truth, leave a review, and remember: change doesn’t happen by accident. 

It happens when you get honest, do the work, and show up for yourself and your family.

Stay real, stay relentless, and keep building your legacy—one choice at a time.

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Let’s be real: your next chapter starts now...

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Hello everyone and welcome to today's episode. Today's guest is fellow islander and someone I've been waiting to get on for a while. Jamie Blair started brewing honeybee tonics in his utility room. No investment, no plan, just a guy with an idea and the guts to back himself. He now runs two cafes here on the island, mentors cafe founders and hosts the Offline Club, a space where people can put down their phones and have a the kind of honest conversations that most of us are avoiding. In a world screaming at us to be busier and more connected, Jamie is quietly doing the opposite. And I think there's a lesson in that for everyone listening. Jamie, welcome to the next chapter.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Hi Luke, thanks for having me on today.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

No worries, mate. Okay, so take me back before roots. Where were you and what were you doing with your life back then?

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Sure. So I think uh one of the most like important things for me in my journey was kind of when when we were at school or when I was at school, I always had this kind of real like bug, desire or like niggling point uh that I just didn't feel like that kind of was for me. So uh that was out throughout like GCSE and A level and also university. I went there and studied law, but it was only kind of like when I was studying uh a module, uh a landlord module, that the pain of that that particular topic was kind of like too much for me. Um and it just was something that stuck with me to this day, and it was a real motivation, motivator for me to really try and find a track uh that I wanted to follow because I knew deep down that a career in law just wasn't for me.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

Oh, okay. So how how old were you when you actually threw yourself into entrepreneurship? Was it long after you finished uni?

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Or Yeah, so effectively, straight after university, I came back. Um I didn't really know what where I was going, what I was going to do. I obviously um kind of had my parents that maybe had this expectation that I was gonna go and be a lawyer. Um, but as I said before, deep down I knew that I wasn't gonna go and be a lawyer. Um so came back. I worked in hospitality on the Isle of Man um at a cocktail bar called Bath and Bottle, and then also um one of their restaurants, 14 North. And yeah, it was there. I got a real buzz for kind of getting to know customers, I guess, like the kind of the high pace of it all, and kind of like juggling several different things at once and just seemed to suit, I guess, my chaotic uh personality. So it was from there I started making soft drinks in the bar, uh bath and bottle to kind of go with cocktails. Um so we made like a lemonade, a ginger beer, and yeah, like those guys were really supportive of kind of for my yeah, that they allowed me to create kind of different cocktails and and different syrups and that sort of thing. That really gave me that kind of entrepreneurial taste. Um, so from there I started to yeah, bottle it up uh at my parents' house um on a hub, like a gas hub. Used to pasteurize it over over a stove, basically, um, and then seal it, and then we'd go out uh and sell it um to different kind of eateries and cafes around the island. Um we just yes, slowly grew from there. Um we ended up having a little factory in Tremode uh on the island. Um, and then eventually we started bottling it in the UK with our recipe, and we we started to try, well, we started to um basically try to get into the the the uh English market. Uh but a few things happened along the way uh with different kind of operational things which made it quite tricky to move forward. Um so I can't remember what year it was, but um we kind of came to an agreement that we would kind of go on our separate ways. We'd bait started to build um and and receive investment into the business. Um, but there were a few sticking points with investors which made it quite difficult um to move forward. Uh and yeah, we kind of stopped um at that point. But I knew I knew deep down that that wasn't the end of roots for me. Um I don't know what it was, but I always had a little kind of inkling that it was gonna stick with me. And um yeah, I guess like 10 years later now we have a different iteration of roots at the moment, and we're still going. And so I guess yeah, it just goes to show like you know, you only truly fail if if you give up on your dreams.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

So many of us have ideas and dreams, like you just said, but very few really they start, you know. Taking that first step is so hard. Yeah. What made you take the first step and and go for it, do you think?

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Uh it was the pain, I think. It was the pain. I didn't want to live a life where I just I just couldn't accept going and being a lawyer was going to be fulfilling enough for me as a person. Like it just didn't suit me, it didn't suit my personality. Um obviously I know I know lots of lawyers and stuff, and you know that that that career obviously suits them really well. But I just knew at that age that I couldn't do that for the rest of my life.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

What did your parents and and and your f and your uh your uni buddies, etc., what did they say when you when you made that decision not to go down that route?

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Actually, it's a good good question. And I've never really spoken to my parents um about it. I've always just been quite like stubborn um in kind of my direction and life, and I guess as I built more momentum and confidence in what I was doing, I kind of knew that this was you know the path for me. Um so yeah, I mean that's probably uh an interesting little point you've made there. Maybe it's worthwhile me uh visiting that topic with my parents sometime soon to see what their initial thoughts were when I came back from university and decided I wasn't gonna go and um be a lawyer and instead work in in hospitality after spending three, four years at university.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

Was there ever a moment, like genuinely looking back? You said it's been 10 years since since this dream sort of started, really, where you thought, I mean, obviously there's been many times I'm sure where you thought that this wasn't gonna work. What what has kept you going? You've already mentioned failure and feedback, but what has kept you going uh throughout those 10 years, do you think?

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Yeah, I think um you know, I think deep down I know that we've only got one shot at this. Um and the more the older I get, the more that kind of burns um for me. Um and I don't know, I've always been someone that'll fight find a way. Like I like to kind of um work in a sense that I'll try and move quickly and then uh adjust um based on like feedback and try and move that way. So again, like for me, that's that's always you know, like I don't think there's a possibility of failure if that's how you operate, if that's how you work, if that's what your mindset is. Um, because you're constantly looking to move forward, you're not afraid to to make mistakes or to fail. So yeah, there's only one there's only one way, and that's to to make it work, to make it happen. You like a challenge? I love a challenge, to be honest. Um yeah, I certainly don't want to kind of I'm not like I don't like to kind of have a lot of structure in my life, although it probably would help me quite a lot. But you know, there's things that we're working on at the moment. I have got better at kind of like focusing on one thing and then moving on to the other thing. Um trying to simplify like tasks a lot more, which obviously helps with momentum. I think momentum's a big thing if you can get some quick momentum, then you you grow in confidence in like your execution because obviously, actually, like we've all got ideas, but actually like having that confidence to try and execute is not always uh straightforward, it's not always easy.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

Um what does the Isle of Man mean to you then? And did it shape you as a person and as a as a business owner and a builder?

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Yeah, I think the Isle of Man is an incredible place. Like, I think it's it's stunning, it's beautiful, um, it has so much potential. Um, so much potential. Um and yeah, I think it's it's that uh that kind of there's an element of that that inspires me because I want to kind of showcase that to the world. Um, and that's kind of like what I'm trying to work on at the moment. Um yeah package something together that we could go out into like the the British market and try and like uh kind of demonstrate what a beautiful place we have, um, and you know, potentially bring people to the island to try and experience uh some of that uh some of that like natural beauty that we have here, um, and that kind of like just different lifestyle that just so many people crave.

SPEAKER_02 9:59

I've been living here for two years now and I absolutely love the place. But when whenever you mention the Isle of Man to to my I'm from Bristol in the southwest of England. Yeah. A lot of I've mentioned it on here before. A lot of people think that I live in the Isle of Wight, they don't even know where the Isle of Yeah, you always get that. They don't even know where the Isle of Man is, and and so many people just associate it with fast bikes and the TT, but it really does have so much more to offer.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

So much more to offer. Um, yeah, there's so much potential. Um, and hopefully, yeah, hopefully we can tap into that over the next couple of years because you know, if you haven't been, I genuinely believe that you're missing out massively because yeah, it's it's so accessible um from the mainland. It's uh yeah, it's it's accessible when you get here as well to visit like different different areas around the island. You know, there's actually like really good hospitality here as well, which you know again, I think people need to experience. I think the community here is incredible. I think you know, like for us, it's it's what we put at the forefront of of kind of what we do with the cafes. We're we're trying to build, trying to build a brand as such with community at the forefront of everything we do, so that you know, people really feel kind of like at home, welcomed, and uh, you know, a part of what of what we're doing and and trying to grow. So um, yeah, hopefully with that experience that we have, we can kind of try and reach out to that wider audience, uh, whether it's the UK or even further afield, and bring people to the island and you know, almost be a host and showcase you know this incredible island to to other people from from different communities.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

Roots isn't just a cafe, as you've just explained. Um, it feels like it stands for a lot more. What were you like when you started, what were you actually trying to build or has it evolved?

SPEAKER_00 11:52

Yeah, I mean, I've always yeah, I've always as I said before earlier in the the podcast, I always loved to get to know like customers wherever I worked. So that was like the real kind of first piece of the puzzle for me is like the one thing that I really felt alive from was, you know, customers like uh if I was in the restaurant serving at 40 North, um come one TT, the come back the next TT, um to kind of see if you know to to to hopefully still be served by me because you know I gave I I'd like to think I gave them a good experience, like we built built a friendship. Um I think that's that you know friendship for me is is is is the important word. I we I try to uh I try to kind of build friendships through through the brands that we that we um are building rather than customers. I'm always super conscious about trying to learn people's names as soon as they kind of walk through the door. Um usually I'm getting a little bit older now, so it takes me two or three times to remember and like, yeah, just remember their coffee order so that I can you know try and have it ready as as soon as possible. Um, you know, if I see them from a distance come in, then I try and like get it get it ready for whenever they walk through the door, that sort of thing. Um I've kind of lost my train of thought with the question now.

SPEAKER_02 13:18

So uh I just asked what you were trying to build in the beginning, and then has has the vision evolved and changed because because roots seems like just so much more than just the cafe.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Yeah, so yeah, for me, like obviously I talked about that like community aspect to it. That's always been really important for me personally. I don't know why. I've always had a passion for coffee, but I think that also started when I was at university. Uh so that's you know a piece of the jigsaw there. Um yeah, and I think I don't know, like we get kind of lost in the way of like building business sometimes. Like for me, I'm trying to build a brand. Um so what that means is you know, something that people can connect to. So it's something maybe a a bit a bit deeper than than a brand, you know, like and that's you know what really makes us unique and we what makes us stand out is that we focus on trying to build a brand rather than a business. And you know, part of that brand is community, getting to know customers, having different communities involved in the in the cafes, so sea swims, run clubs, meet for club uh uh club runs with cycling. Um, you know, we're doing yeah, we're doing kind of like loads of collaborations at the moment with with all different kind of communities across the island. Um so yeah, I think yeah, that's that that hopefully answers that question.

SPEAKER_02 14:37

Is there anything that stands out that you got badly wrong early on and that you do completely different there?

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Um it's a really interesting interesting question because my mindset on this I think has changed recently. Um because actually, what I would encourage is to try and make as many mistakes as possible, um, because that is where you'll really learn about your business and about yourself as well. Um, I think our mindset and the culture around failure. Um, from what I've learned, like at school, etc., at university, you know, obviously you're graded and you need to get a certain grade, otherwise it's seen as a failure. For me, I'm I'm much more in the mindset now, whereas I'm not afraid to fail. Like I want to fail, and if and when I'm failing, I feel like I'm a lot more kind of in tune and on the right track as to where we're going. So if I'm not failing, I'm always a bit worried nowadays.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

Yeah, you sort of you sort of you become you get into autopilot and you start sort of kind of starting to get it. I mean we've and you're not moving forward and you're not growing.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

Yeah, and we've had we've had huge hurdles over the past three years. Um, you know, one of our shops were was um kind of damaged, um equipment was damaged, um which which set us back quite a quite a kind of a long period of time uh before we kind of got that sorted. Uh obviously that was quite quite a process as well to to kind of get to the bottom of that. Um you know, we've obviously had kind of operational challenges. I've tried to change how the business operates. It's it's not worked very well. We've then had to go back to old ways. We've obviously been always trying to like find our niche like with our products as well, like in terms of you know our offering and stuff like that. Uh and that's you know, that's that takes time and a lot of energy and effort, and you know, it can it can really make you question like your choices sometimes. But now, like, as I said before, I'm really not afraid. Like, if I have an idea to give it a go, uh get the feedback because it's priceless at the end of the day. Like, you can't pay for that kind of knowledge that you get uh from from making those errors. Um, so yeah, like for me, I don't want it to be plain sailing, I want there to be bumps in the road, I want there to be challenges. Um, and I just I get I take encouragement when I start to see things kind of not going as planned, I guess. But that's that's life as well, you know. Like I think there's no perfect life, right? So that's the same with with any challenges that you're you're facing in business. You know, if you think you're gonna have a straightforward road, then uh I guess maybe maybe it's you're in the wrong, in the wrong uh Yeah, it's all about the journey, not the destination.

SPEAKER_02 17:48

It sounds so cliche and corny, I know, but it but it is so true. I think so many people they they they uh it's like the goalposts are always moving in life, aren't they? But that's in business, and you know, it can be in so many different things.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

The big thing for me as well that I learned was um, you know, we we've we've faced some big challenges, like, and you know, I've obviously questioned like, oh naturally, because I'm a human, like, okay, maybe this challenge is like a little bit beyond me or whatever, but you know, the reason why I've got through it is because people have stepped up and into my life um at the right moments, and that that is actually the beautiful thing about when you're like going through hardship and like you're facing I guess your demons and you're facing um all the challenges. People start to appear in your life to help support you uh and like pull you through and you know help you get through the other side. And the thing is, you are gonna get through. It might feel like it's a you know a very long dark tunnel, um, but you will get through like one step at a time, um, you know, and you'll get there. Uh and sometimes, you know, it it feels like literally the world's caving in on you, um, but just as you know, that feels quite quite painful and dramatic. Like once you get through to the other side as well, you know, that joy and elation like is is incredible. And the other thing I I just want to kind of point out there as well is like when you do get to the other side and like things are starting to like swing in the right the right direction for you, the the the the kind of when things are coming together, that joy and elation you get from seeing that would be what I think is like ten times more powerful because you've gone through you know you've gone through the stormiest of seas to get there, and it just feels like it feels so much more rewarding. I certainly wouldn't want to go A to B in a straight line.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

Everyone wants the view, but they don't want the climb. Exactly, exactly. And I I think it's a great way of looking at it, it is so true, but you only really appreciate the views when you when you go through that through those tough, tough points, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:10

Reflecting back on like the hard parts of the journey and like the the the bumpy moments, you know, like and it kind of yeah, it's incredible elation that you get from reflecting on that once you've like really got through those those challenges and got to the other side, like yeah, it's just such an incredible feeling.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

You mentor people now uh to open their own cafes in 90 days. Yeah, what's the biggest mindset shift most people need to hear before they're ready to build anything? You can't be mentoring to you already, Damien.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Yeah, I think I think for me it's like be prepared for the storms because it's but I think as well in cafes, there's so many spinning plates. And you know, for me, it's also like working out what your how does your personality suit like your operation as well. It's like for me, I've realized that I actually I just quite like small cafes where I can get to know customers, you know, I can kind of uh have time to make time for for for customers and that sort of thing. That really suits me and my personality. Obviously, that's that can be different for everyone. So I think it's just like as well, understanding yeah, what what kind of you want, but also it's like knowing that if you try something, you know, like you can you know make changes and adapt it and kind of try and find where you want to be with with your cafe and what you want to do um with that. So yeah, I think uh it's kind of like understanding yourself a little bit as to what you want, um I guess in in a lifestyle. Do you want to like do you want to like scale it to I don't know, like hundreds of cafes, franchise it or whatever, or do you want to just kind of build a bit more of a like a community around your cafes um and you know have a bit more of a lifestyle around it as well? Do you think everyone's cut out to be a business owner? That's a great question. I don't think so, actually. No, I think I think some people suit, you know, as I said before, like a bit of structure. Some people are a lot more academic and um, you know, a career, like a a career that has steps might suit them and their personality. I've always been a bit of a Menace like in even in school and stuff. So I think maybe like that that lends itself to kind of that that entrepreneurial kind of mindset. Um bit of chaotic, that sort of thing. Um so yeah, I don't, yeah. I don't think so. No, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_02 22:43

I think people, yeah. I think if you're a business owner, you've got to be willing to take risks as well, haven't you? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

A lot of kite for that. No, 100%. Like risk is like, I don't know, like for me it's it's second nature, right? But yeah, for some people, you know, they really weigh it up and look at all the the different uh yeah, risk and reward, I guess. And I'm I yeah, I like to kind of execute as quickly as possible, especially if I've got like something I'm excited about. Because I don't I want to carry that momentum and I don't want to lose that momentum. So yeah, maybe some people would be a bit more, as I said, like before weighing up the risks and before pulling the trigger, I try and pull the trigger and then adapt along the way.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

Tell me more about the offline club. I've I've seen it on your website. Where did the idea come from and what problem are you trying to solve?

SPEAKER_00 23:34

Yeah, I think like for that, um for the offline club, um, well, we I mean, I was massively encouraged when you know I I kind of posted something. Um I think I can't even remember what it was, but it was like just talking about um like the chronic use of like using my phone all the time. Like every moment that I get like I was getting, I was I was reaching for my phone, and um yeah, like my I could just feel my brain like swelling all the time and like get me getting irritated and stuff like that. Um and I just was like, oh, this is actually like really quite hard to stop and like put my phone down and like leave it when I've got a bit of free time. So I mean we've got loads of really fun, exciting plans, hopefully, which we'll include in kind of like the wider roots brand um with this over the next few years. But yeah, it was just about bringing people together, slowing people down. Um for me, what I was struggling with as well was having some dedicated time to plan. Um so kind of one of the elements was it was uh with the offline club was um like an hour of of just planning. So I kind of guided people through like um yeah, a section where people would kind of plan the next uh 60 days, 90 days, uh, with a little bit of structure in there, um, trying to identify you know what where their weaknesses were or where they wanted to focus more on and less on sort of thing. And then after that we we went for a little like a walk around the glen and kind of chatted about different aspects of like of what was brought to light uh in in that planning session. And then we came back and we did a little bit of like breath work and Pilates, you know, to really try and like slow people down and I guess just I guess like reset the nervous system as well. And then after that, we did like a brunch buffet, lots, lots of like roots products, dates and peanut butter, protein bars, crumbles, you know, all the stuff that you see in the cafes. And then yeah, that I mean that was like a four-hour kind of block, and it like the demand for it was was was insane to be honest. You know, we've got a bit of a a waiting list, uh, email waiting list kind of for the next one. I was planning on maybe doing it once a month, but my ideas have kind of taken me somewhere else a little bit at the moment. I would have parked it for now because I want to try and encompass some other different aspects into like what what we're doing at the moment. Um, but as I said before, I'm trying to work more linearly, complete a task, execute it, uh, then move on to the next phase or the next part of roots and the growth of roots, and then eventually introduce it all as kind of like my vision is like the Isle of Man could almost be like this offline island, not offline per se, but metaphorically almost it's like we almost position ourselves as this like retreat slash wellness slash come to the island if you want to kind of get away from the hustle and bustle of the city life and you know have three days switching off with like an itinerary slash or like a whole week, you know, uh with a team of executives of like from your department or whatever, or even you know, you just want a little break, which is all kind of focused around like wellness, eating well, recovery, nervous system, all those sort of things.

SPEAKER_02 27:05

It sounds amazing. I think I'm definitely gonna have to join that uh that weight list. The uh you describe it as a space for high-functioning people who carry weight. What kind of weight are you talking about?

SPEAKER_00 27:18

It can be anything, really, you know. Like, I mean, so part of like my challenges over the past few years, like I've had some health issues with like chronic eczema, um, which I was covered top to toe in eczema. I like my my forehead, like if I did that, it would just be so dry. And you know, I felt like that, I don't know what like I don't know what the kind of trigger to that was, and I also don't know what the exact kind of unraveling of that was because now as you can see my my skin's quite good now. Um and I, you know, I I don't suffer, like obviously, like every now and then, especially in the heat, it gets a little bit irritated, but I don't suffer as much now. I was like stuck in this cycle of like anxiety and depression as well while whilst trying to like run the cafes um and have like a small team of people as well. Like, and I was turning up every day, like, and the the anxiety and the depression and the the the kind of pain that I was carrying was was was chronic as well. Um and like this has all kind of funneled me into as I said, like putting these pieces of the jigsaw down, um, and really kind of like starting to get that like clear vision and clear goal. Um but yeah, just going back, I guess like you know, there's a lot of people that are just kind of like on full throttle like all the time. Um and I think you know, it is just not healthy like for your nervous system to be absolutely pinging all the time. Um like it's take it's it's come from my pain uh and my pains of like and my challenges of of running of just life, I guess, as becoming an adult as I get older, um you know, and just creating a space and like trying to almost be an example of like, you know, you can still like have success, achieve your goals, um, you know, hit your targets, but it doesn't always have to be like full throttle, you know. And also I think like if you are full throttle, then the thing that I've learned as well is to start recognizing when I've hit a target and to reward myself, to reward myself at the end of the week as well. I don't know what the psychology is around that, but you know, when I started doing these things, that that is when my eczema started to like clear up and that like anxiety and depression started to really disperse.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

There's so many people listening to this podcast that and that are numbing out, like you said, or distracting themselves, whether that's with alcohol, with screens, with work, just to avoid that weight that that we just uh mentioned, Jamie. Does that resonate with what you see in the offline club?

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Yeah, definitely. People, you know, like school teachers, business owners, doctors, you know, it's like it's incredible really because you kind of feel a bit like un under like qualified to be hosting a space like this for you know those sort of people, but they they just want the experience, they want the time to like block it out, um, and they don't want to like have to think about anything, you know, they want to go through a process, they want to be nourished, they want a bit of like connection with other other humans, like community and conversation. Um yeah, and they want to try and like reflect as well and just have that time to be human. Um, because sometimes I think you know, we get so busy that you forget that you're a human sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

Yeah, sometimes we just need that connection. Yeah. And living in a digital world, especially with AI, we're becoming so I mean social media was meant to connect us all, but it's actually disconnecting us all, I think.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

Yeah, for sure, for sure. I think, you know, I think it's I think there's obviously loads of positives to it, but it's it's hard to I try and like social media for example, Instagram, I try and use it to like inspire and not consume now. And because, you know, as I said, like in well in a in a recent post uh I put uh it was about kind of you know one life and um you know my my kind of idea behind Instagram now is to try and like encourage people to you know live an inspired life and and and look back on what they've what they've done when they're a little bit older and go, yeah, I was happy with that. Like, you know, I I ticked all the boxes, I did what I needed to do. Yeah, uh so that you know that's kind of I try and use it as a tool rather than something to consume now. Um because I mean I I I used to consume it, like I don't even know what like some of my data around social media and stuff would be and phone use and that sort of thing. Um I've definitely got a lot better now with that. That's just breaking the habit as well, you know, because it does become it does become a habit at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

Yeah, it can be become well, it's the same as anything in life, I think. It's all about balance. Yeah. And and you can obviously overconsume, but there is it it gets such a bad rap, uh social media, but like you said, you can use it for for inspiration, and there and there can't be so so many, you know, if you only follow ins you know, inspirational pages or whatever, then then it can be it can be a really, really good thing.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

No, absolutely, absolutely. And yeah, that's kind of like how I've tried to tailor my my own personal Instagram as well to try and get rid of like dunno stuff that is not useful whatsoever, and try to, you know, like really focus on stuff that's like lifting me up and encouraging me to live the life that that I want to live.

SPEAKER_02 32:57

So there's a version of entrepreneurship and um business owners that look very successful on the outside, but they feel hollow on the inside. Have you ever been close to that? I mean, does that resonate with you?

SPEAKER_00 33:09

I think there's certainly a period of my life where I was like, oh yeah, I think like when we had uh the free cafes, um what else were we doing? We're doing some other bits and pieces um at that point, and I kind of I didn't have any direction, didn't have any goal, didn't have any vision. You know, I just thought that I was gonna keep building cafes. Um, but like deep down again, I knew that I didn't want to just run cafes, like for me, like the more I do, the less connected I'm gonna be with like our customers. Um, and that was obviously like you know, I was I explained before we had a bit of a disaster with our third cafe, um like operationally and mechanically. Um but uh you know, I I truly believe that that was a bit of a blessing in disguise for me to take that moment to maybe take a few steps back to work out like how we were gonna go forward. Um, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. I think um, you know, that's part of that journey and part of that priceless, it priceless experience of being an entrepreneur or like building a career, for example. You know, I I I think again, it's not like we kind of have this culture in the society where we're like we always have to be moving forward to be successful, but actually, yeah, as I said, I think sometimes it's it's wise to take some steps back, reflect on where you're at, and um recharge and then send it again. Sometimes you need to slow down to speed up, yeah, exactly, exactly. Um and like I think it's trying to be in tune with with yourself as well and like understand Yeah, understand what you want, but like I think you only start to really understand what you want through through your errors and through through you know what we may determine as as a failure or as something that isn't successful. I guess like you kind of like reflect on it and go, uh maybe wasted a bit of time on on something here that doesn't set me alight, doesn't kind of you know, bang the drum of like the the the example of a human that I want to be in the world. So you go, right, okay, well we're not gonna roll with that anymore. Uh we're gonna knock that on the head and we're gonna kind of maybe try this little thing um that I've had a little thought about or maybe I've journaled about or something along those lines. Um yeah, and that's like the kind of the continuum process of the journey, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

Before we hit record earlier, you mentioned about how important it is for you to have a vision.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:53

I I would call it a a North Star. Yeah. So tell me more about that. Why do you think it's so important to have a clear vision?

SPEAKER_00 36:02

Yeah, I think it's a really interesting one. I've actually had a few conversations around this before because I think you know, almost corporately there's this idea that we need to have a goal and a vision, and it can almost be like it can almost be like forced and maybe something that you don't necessarily truly connect with, but it's like I've I've experienced this before. Like to be honest, for the past like, you know, nine years, it's it's something that you know I've sat down and wrote goals and uh had a vision and stuff, um, and it's kind of like floundered, or it's it's you know, it's it's it's fizzled away. Um, and that's because I like haven't truly been connected with it. Um well it was only it was only a few weeks ago. Um, you know, we pulled the trigger on on kind of the next phase of of what we're doing with roots, and uh it was just one of those moments that you know you you hear those stories where it was like it just dropped into me and I was like okay, like I've got a much clearer goal and vision now. Like I reflected in that on that moment on like something that I'd previously had like a desire to do, and I was like, I just need to execute this piece of the puzzle, which I'm like nearly I've near nearly executed, and then there's literally one more piece of the the puzzle here, and then I have the whole kind of you know vision that I've had before. Um and it was just in that moment that I was just like like it just felt real, it felt tangible, um, and it felt like there was an element of like I don't know, like connection with what I was doing, and it just became very apparent that I could do it, and I was like, I'm gonna do this now. Like in that kind of in that moment, I was I got my like book out and because I was obviously buzzing and started like writing down like just kind of everything I could, and then I just got this like really um yeah, I just I kind of just pieced the the the puzzle together after that, and I was like, okay, well this is what we're gonna do now, um and this is now like how we're gonna kind of grow the brand. But as I said, like I've I've always had that along the way, but it's not being 100% clear, the vision's not being being there. I've I've I've had goals and visions, but it just didn't feel right. But it was just in that moment, it all just came together, and like I just feel like I know which direction we're going in now, and I know exactly how we're gonna well, I don't know exactly how we're gonna get there, but I know the pieces that we need to we need to kind of put in place in order to get there. And it was, yeah, uh I mean for me like that was almost the the the light at the end of the tunnel, like it was almost like the not the checkered flag, but it was like the pendulum had swung after maybe three or four years of of of real challenges, and like that's not to say that we're not gonna face challenges again, you know, over the next few years and through the next phases or whatever, but it just was like a defining moment for me where I was like, okay, I feel like we've now got through that phase. We can see light at the end of the tunnel, we know where we're going now, and you know, we've got to just send it again. Like, and you know, there's almost like a new layer of confidence that's kind of like settled into me, and there's a new level of desire and a new level of like delusion, and yeah, I just I just know that that's that's where we're going, I know that's what we're going to achieve. Um, and I know nothing's gonna stop me.

SPEAKER_02 39:47

Yeah, yeah, I can hear the passion in your voice when you're talking about it. The uh do you put that down to intuition as well?

SPEAKER_00 39:54

Do you think Yeah, I think I think there must be an element of intuition in it because it as I said, like I've had like these different elements that have been very similar to kind of what I've I've got written down on my whiteboard here, but it was just something in that moment where I just pulled the trigger on something, and it just was like boom, it just became very clear, very apparent. The vision was there, the goal was there, and I was like this new wave of confidence was there, and I was like, I know where we're going. So I don't know that it's hard to kind of like explain with words.

SPEAKER_01 40:30

Um exactly kind of that feeling.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

But I think uh, you know, one thing that also like really, really stands out for me is like along the way, you know, I have tried to shake my brand off and be like, I've thought about you know kind of 10 years down the line going, do you know what? Like I'm gonna just go and be a lawyer. That would be the you know, a much more structured thing for me to do. But it's I've never been able to shake it off. There's been other like cases of like different ideas and like trying to build other little side hustles and stuff along the way, but but I've never really kind of built momentum. But there's just something about what I'm doing, you know, whether that's like intuitionally or you know, my life's purpose or that I just I just can't shake off. I just can't get rid of it. And like, as I said, like even through some of the biggest challenges, you know, like you know, I've I've started to kind of find my people in life. I've tried to shake off roots, but it it just keeps sticking. I've now got like this clear vision and goal. We've had like some unbelievable challenges, like all stacking up like one after the other. Um, and here we are today, still, you know, still cracking on and still kind of more inspired than ever, um, to to kind of yeah, smash my goals.

SPEAKER_02 41:58

The hunger's still there, well and truly. So, anybody listening to this then, Jamie, and they're they're stuck in their nine to five job and they're dreaming about starting a business, you know, they've got that gut feeling that you know they've got ideas running around in their head. What would you say to them? I mean, what would be the first step moving forward? That's a good question.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Yeah, I think that you've like if you can identify that, it is it's not just kind of a nice idea, it's something you know, maybe you thought about for a few years now. Um I think you know, obviously there's an element of like understanding kind of how you operate as a person, you know, maybe maybe that structure of like nine to five, building a career. Um, because I think as well that there's opportunity in that. You know, maybe people don't have the confidence um to you know try and step forward and just be bold in in their career, maybe and try and like you know, take it to that next level. I think we're all like capable once we have that fire in our belly to to uh yeah, accomplish kind of like all our goals. But yeah, I think it's it's it's really uh identifying whether yeah, that kind of like passion and that fire um for that idea is is kind of something that's gonna cling on to you, um, or whether it is just maybe a bit of a flash in the pan. Um, but that's what I mean, like a flash in the pan as well. Like I've had loads of flashes in the pan. Um but there's something just different about like roots and my vision for roots and what I'm doing, like it's part of my personality, it's part of you know my identity, it's part of um my lifestyle. I think you know, if if if it's something like that, if it's a burn and desire like that, then I think you know you you're definitely on to something there, and it's something that you can certainly build and um um you know take a lot of courage from, even in in those dark days. Um yeah, I think I think Yeah, it's about really digging deep and working out whether that's you know, that's a as I said before, flashing the pan or whether it's you know a burning desire to to take it on. Because if it is a burning desire, you're gonna do it no matter what, you know what I mean? So no challenge will be big enough to kind of take you down.

SPEAKER_02 44:24

If it's there and you've been thinking about it for a few years, then yeah, obviously you need to get a structure in place to to make it happen. Yeah, exactly. It's t it's it's turning that dream into a reality, isn't it? It's so hard, but you're only ever gonna do it by taking the action.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

Yeah, exactly. And you know, the reality is as well, like you could you could do it on the side. Do you know what I mean? Do it on the side of of your nine to five job. You could, you know, build the small kind of little steps in in place and really try and lay the foundation down before kind of pulling that trigger fully, going uh, you know, fully into you know, full time on on your on your project, so to speak.

SPEAKER_02 45:06

So if the if the closest people to you, uh Jamie said if they were asked what does Jamie stand for, what would you want them to say?

SPEAKER_00 45:17

Um I don't know, deluded community, deluded community, and I think just like driven, focused in many respects as well. And I think there's like one word that you know just trying to think of. You know, I think uh I think I don't know what the word is that I'm looking for. Nothing can nothing's gonna be able to take me down, I don't think, until I kind of achieve what I want to achieve.

SPEAKER_02 45:47

Very ambitious.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 45:50

If if you could go back then and speak to your younger self back then when you were doing your law degree back in university, what would you tell that a younger version, Jamie?

SPEAKER_00 46:03

Uh I'd to be honest, like someone was asking me about this the other day. You know, I'd certainly encourage I'd certainly encourage people to not be afraid of failing, you know, or or kind of yeah, face face an adversity head on as well, like and really get stuck into into those challenges. I think um yeah, the the sooner you can learn um adapt and adjust um where adversity kind of crops up, then I think you know you it's a skill that I think is essential in life. And you know, I think it's it's that for me is if if you can deal with adversity and the challenges, then you know, you I think you're gonna go pretty far in life.

SPEAKER_02 46:49

What does the next chapter look like for you then, Jamie? And where can people find you? I'll put your um your uh website links and stuff in the show anyway.

SPEAKER_00 46:59

So you can obviously find me at Jamie underscore roots, um then the cafes of roots.im. Um and then we've got rootshq.co.uk is our website. Um, but yeah, like for me, it's it's kind of like now trying to move away, not move away from the cafes, but we want to try and kind of build a bit more of an experience um around the brand, and that's what I'm really excited for. So we currently have uh like a sauna on the way for one of our cafes, and yeah, I'm looking forward to launching that uh because you know that's something that we've um obviously done from day one is have the kind of sea dipping community around that. And so that's now obviously like comes hand in hand with that. So, you know, for us, we've got like our kind of healthy, healthy eating, and we're gonna try and tailor that cafe a little bit more towards the sauna and yeah, do like protein shakes, and we we make these incredible protein bars, homemade protein bars. Um, so yeah, I really want to kind of like tailor that towards that. Uh, and thereafter we're looking to potentially do some sort of like B. And then the big picture would be then to kind of bring it all onto one site as like a bit of a wellness retreat with accommodation, like a bit of a running track, like a bit of a lake, some saunas, uh, some cabins where you can be offline. And uh yeah, then I think for me that the the big, big picture then would be to take that blueprint uh somewhere else and try and execute it somewhere else in the world. It's a hell of a vision.

SPEAKER_02 48:28

It really is. Thank you so much for coming on today, Jamie. It's been it's been a great conversation and and it's been great finally getting to uh to meet you, mate. Obviously, I've been into the cafe quite a few times uh here in Pill. And yeah, it's it's got that real sense of community, I think, and and that personal touch, which makes it very, very different to every cafe's. I think it's a brilliant thing that you're doing, mate, and it's it's really, really inspiring. Um and I think yeah, it's a brilliant example of what is possible when you choose to show up.

SPEAKER_00 48:59

Yeah, thank you very much. No, I think um it's exciting, yeah. It's exciting because I think like, you know, along the way there's certainly been times where I've been like, oh, what am I doing? Like I'm lost, you know, I've not had that vision, I've not had that goal. But no, it's it's it's I think you know, it's an example of I think it's an example of like, you know, I was doing stuff that I love, but that also doesn't necessarily mean that you kind of have your stuff together. It's like still along that way and that journey, there's there's ups and downs, and there's there's moments that are gonna define you, and like you're gonna develop as a person, and your personality and your cra character is gonna kind of change, and as I said, like your goal and your vision is gonna change um along the way.

SPEAKER_01 49:44

But yeah, you just gotta kind of keep going.

SPEAKER_02 49:49

Keep keep going um and never give up, but only ever pivot on the way. That's it, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 49:55

Because you only really fail if you know you brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 49:59

Thank you so much for coming on, Jamie. I've really appreciated your time. Thanks, Luke. Thank you very much for your time as well. Cheers, mate. Thank you.