Episode 14 - Men don’t avoid help. They avoid being seen needing it.

Men don’t avoid help.
 They avoid what it costs to be seen asking for it.

In this episode, I share where that realization came from—starting with a moment in a grief support group, continuing through the UnStuck program, and ending with a conversation that happened in a place you wouldn’t expect.

There’s a pattern here.
 Men will speak up… just not where anyone can see it.

This isn’t about fixing yourself.
 It’s about noticing what’s already there—and deciding what to do with it.

If this hit, share it with someone who needs to hear it. 

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Presented by Madison’s Path
https://madisonspath.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey gang. Uh different kind of episode today, because I'm gonna get right into it. I'm not gonna bother with the uh the intro and stuff because something has been happening lately and I can't ignore it anymore. I've had multiple men come up to me recently, and every single one of them is asking for help. And to a man, every single one of them, those conversations have started the same way. Very quietly, looking around, making sure no one was around that could hear. Um, and very much like they didn't want to be seen asking for help.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Like it was costing them something to say it out loud, and that has stuck with me. See, I keep getting asked why I do this.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

What am I hoping to accomplish? What is my goal? What uh what brought me here? And uh I'm gonna I'm gonna open up the curtain, I'm gonna let you see inside, see the wizard, as they say. Uh in uh in in July of 2021, my daughter, technically stepdaughter, but my daughter passed from COVID.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Um and to say that my wife and I were gutted is an understatement.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Um but amazingly, somehow, my wife, as we were walking out of the hospitals, we had had had to make the decision to turn the machines off. And uh as we were walking out, somehow my wife looked at me and said, I don't want us to be the sad family. I don't want us to be the sad house.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

And I man, fuck me if I know how she managed it even then. Something about that stuck with us. And we uh we lurched around for a bit trying to figure this whole new world out. Because I can tell you, when you lose a child, the world is different.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

And it's because you realize eventually, if you're smart enough and you put enough work in, you realize that it's not the world has changed, it's you and your relationship with everything. So a couple months passed, and um, one of our daughters had a job interview, and the night before she decided that she wanted to just drive over, see where the place was, uh, you know, so she wasn't trying to find it cold. Now, mind you, it's it's dark at this point, it's raining. Visibility's terrible. But her and my wife, they climb in the car, they they drive, and they find the place. And somehow, through this darkness, through this uh storm, my wife notices on the church across the street from where the job interview is, a sign that says grief share uh Tuesday nights at 7 p.m. And a phone number. My wife takes the phone number and calls the guy, uh the pastor of our church, Mr. Joe Martin, and talks to him about it and decides my wife decides that she wants to go. So that Tuesday, we hop in the truck, we get to the grief share, and the grief share is if you've suffered a loss, if you're hurting from that, if you're struggling to deal with it, I cannot recommend enough that you find a grief share program or something similar to it. The grief share is is a religious-based program, but it's not strictly religious.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Um I can't recommend these programs enough, though. They they really make a difference.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

So we go the first week, we go the second week. Third week, my wife goes, Yeah, I don't want to go. So, okay. Now, what I hadn't realized during the course of that week was that this program made a huge difference in my wife and in me, in hindsight, because she was a wreck that week. An absolute wreck. And I'm sure some of it was me not being able to deal with her because I wasn't as good. But the end result was the following Tuesday comes, she says, I don't want to go. And my exact response was, the fuck you're not, get in the truck. And I noticed that night, and this this is where this gets pertinent to the story, and I apologize for the meander, but it's it's part of it. You got to understand the whole thing to understand to understand this. There was a gentleman in there in that class, in that grief share class, with his wife, and they had a son that had committed suicide. And I could look at this man and I could see that he needed to talk. I could see that there were demons running around behind his eyes, that he needed to get out into the world. And he wouldn't do it. He wouldn't say it. He wouldn't speak, he wouldn't let it out. Every time it came his turn to talk, he would just I pass. And I don't know what hit me.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

I don't know why it struck me. I don't know what it was. But something about watching him made me realize that I needed to let him know it was okay to talk.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

So when it came my turn, man, I I just I opened up, I let it out, I let it all out. There was sobbing, there was crying, there was screaming.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Um and I spoke for a good three, four minutes.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

Which for me, I I know you you hear me now, but uh in those days I didn't talk much. I was the guy that that would sit there and in a room full, crowded room full of people laughing and joking was quietly sitting in the corner reading his book.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

That was that was who I was because I had a lot of demons running around that I could not let out. But I I did. And the next time it came around for for this gentleman to talk, he did.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

You know, I I I don't know if it was me or not. I don't I don't have delusions of grandeur thinking I'm some great inspirational leader. But if if me doing what I did was even one percent of why he started to talk, half a percent, it was worth it. Because he started to talk, and over the course of the next few weeks, he would talk more and more. And the more he talked, the more I talked, and the more I talked, the more he talked. And I'm happy to say that this gentleman is now a friend of mine. Uh someone who I respect, someone who I enjoy spending time with. We go out and we have dinners, our our families do.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

Um that's where I found my voice. That's where I started. That's where I first started seeing this.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

And I knew there was power in this somewhere. In this talking, in this not sitting quietly. And I knew that the Grief Share program was something that was helping people. And I was in a place where I needed that. I needed that.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

I needed to be a part of something. Yeah, I think that's the best way to say it. I needed to be part of something.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

So my wife and I joined Grief Share as facilitators. Um ironically, it was actually at the same time I decided to become a Christ's servant minister after being agnostic for 46 years.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

46? Yeah, 46 years. So it became part of the grief share program. And my wife and I worked at for for three years almost. And through the course of this, we recognized something. Um people would come, people would go, and it would it's a great program, and it would help, it would help a lot. But for some people, it was missing something. And it's not to say they didn't get better, because they did. But there was something more that they needed, and it didn't, it didn't have it. So around about this time, my wife, Stacy, became a uh certified life and health coach.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

I had completed my uh Christ Servant Minister training, and I was also enrolled to become a life and transition coach. Um, and we came up with our Unstuck program. And I'm not here to pimp the program. I think it's a great program. I'm biased, I'll admit it, but I think it's a great program. Uh, and it's it's centered around taking that next step. You've been through some shit and you're ready to move on. Or maybe you're stuck and life is just like Groundhog Day, and every damn day you wake up to the same song on the radio. And what I noticed overwhelmingly was that both in the Grief Share program and in our Unstuck program, it was overwhelmingly female to the tune of eight to one, eight women for every man. Maybe even more than that. Maybe I'm I might even be optimistic with that number. But it was heavily skewed towards women and not towards men. And and moreover, the reaction I got as both a grief share facilitator and a teacher in the Unstuck, that I was male and I was talking about this was just shocked.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

And no one knew what to do with it.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

Because here's a guy who, you know, and and I mean, for those of you who have seen me, you know, big biker-looking dude, tattooed, bearded, shaven head, sitting here talking about processing your emotions and feeling and being present, mindful, and that it's okay to mourn and grieve, and like actually being in touch with his feelings.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Was not something a lot of people knew how to deal with. But I kept at it because I believe in this mission.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

And I believe that all of us deserve better than we give ourselves credit for, and that men, especially, we do ourselves a huge disservice.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

But we'll get to that. We'll get to that. So we're uh we're in our sixth session of the Unstuck program now. Been running for we're coming up on three years now.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

And um, there's there's one guy in our classes, and out of the six sessions we've had, he's come to five of them. And and to be clear, I'm okay with this. Because I asked him about it, and his response was interesting to me. He said that I'm able to focus on my life better when I'm talking about this stuff.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

I'm able to focus on my life better when I have an outlet for this, and when when I don't, things start backing up.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

So he's like, I I I know all the classes. He's like, I know what I'm walking into every week, but it's still it brings it front and center. And that was interesting to me because you know, we created this program out of the need that we were seeing in Grief Share, where people were coming to three, four sessions and still feeling something that was missing. And now here we're creating something that's supposed to fill that void and help them move on. But there's a gentleman here who is he's he's saying the same thing. He's he's saying, I need this. Like, I need this moving forward, I need this to continue for me.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

I'm noticing this pattern through all of this that us guys, we don't we don't talk about this stuff. We don't mention our feelings, we don't we don't process our stuff, and when we need help, we're afraid to ask for it. Over the course of the last oh hell.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

Maybe three months, I've had no less than a dozen men come up to me and saying, Thank you for doing this.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

I need help. And I don't know what to do.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

And just like I said when I opened, every single one of them, they came up to me, they made sure we were alone, they made sure there was no one around, like literally many of them were looking around like they were trying to do a you know a secret spy mission or something. Intentionally cornering me somewhere where you know we were away from eyes and we were away from from people that could walk in on the conversation.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

And all they want is help. All they want is someone to talk to. All they want is someone to listen. Guys, why do we do this?

SPEAKER_00 16:40

Why do we do this to ourselves? And I'm in the boat. I'm in the boat with you. I'm not, I'm no better. I'm trying, at least. I'm at least rowing, but fuck me, guys. Why do we do this? We live in a society where men are supposed to produce, and that's how we've come to value ourselves. It's not by who we are, not by the things that we do.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

It's what we produce, what we provide. It's what we accomplish at the end of the day. And we don't even put value on ourselves as human beings. And that's fucking sad. Because here's what I've learned over the years. Every single one of us has value. Every single one of us deserves a better life than we think we do.

SPEAKER_00 17:53

And every single one of us deserves to be treated better than we treat ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

We set our expectations too high. We set our acceptable rewards way too low. And that's why we're falling apart. I'm going to ask that you listen to understand.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

Don't listen to respond. Don't listen to tell me I'm wrong or I'm right. Listen to actually understand. We have a huge problem in this country today, in this world, really. And it's not drugs, it's not guns, it's not Democrats, it's not Republicans, it's not politicians. It's not war, it's not famine. The problem we have is a mental health crisis that no one is talking about. All of these other things are symptoms of this mental health crisis.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

And it's men.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

It's invariably men. There are women too. And ladies, I'm not counting you out of any of this. I know you're listening. I know you're nodding along. I know many of my biggest supporters are women. And this applies to you too. But women are better about asking for help than men. And that's the lane I live in, is that I want us men to live better lives. And ladies, if you're here, if you're listening, God love you.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

I hope that the man in your life is benefiting from this.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

I hope you can take things away from this and make his life better. Fuck, I hope you just learn when to read when he needs a hug and tell him it's gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

Because we need to hear that too.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

We have a mental health crisis, and us men do not ask for help, not lightly. And when we do, it's usually because we're about to snap. We don't we don't have anywhere else to store things.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

And we've just got a whole nother load of bullshit we gotta deal with. But there is light at the tunnel, guys. And I want to tell you about another experience I had. Just was yesterday, actually. Saturdays, I finish work around four o'clock, and on my way home, there is a local gun store.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

It's a small store, it's run by some guys I know. Um, and to be clear, I met them through the gun store. So, but I went in, as is my normal Saturday afternoon. I get done at four, they close up at five. We I sit around for the last hour or so in there, and we bullshit. We talk about stuff and just talk about guns and shooting and movies, and they've always got great movies playing, and you know, we talk about whatever, whatever guy stuff is going on. And and but this particular Saturday, uh this particular Saturday was different. I walked in and there was uh four of us in there, actually, three guys that worked there, and myself. And I hopped in my usual stool and we started talking, and and somehow I mentioned the classes that we we teach, and I started talking about them, and I mentioned that. You know, I was in therapy and had been since 2001. And one of the other guys kind of real hesitantly said, Yeah, you know, I've I've been in therapy for about three years myself.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

And then the next guy, I've been talking to someone for about two years now. And then finally the last guy, he kinda peeked his head up from where he was, and he's like, It's been two years for me. And we all just kind of sat there for a minute, looking around the room. And the whole atmosphere changed.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

It went from a room of four guys sitting around bullshitting comfortably with each other, to four guys in a place that was safe to talk about anything. And we all felt it. Because we all had the same look and we all looked at each other the same way. And that's when the real conversation started.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

We talked about things there that I have never talked with another person about.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Things that were going on in my mind, things that were going on in my head, things that had happened that I was still struggling to process. And it was all of us. We were all talking, we were all back and forth with it. And then at five o'clock, when the one guy's alarm on his phone went off, time to lock up the store. We all just kind of stood up and we shook hands and we hugged, as men can hug, and I'm a big hugger. I hug everybody. Maybe one day I'll tell you about the time I hugged a homeless man up in New York City.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

But we hugged. As we walked out of the store, it was a different experience. It was powerful. It was powerful. It was life-changing. Guys, find yourself someone to talk to.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

It could be a therapist, it could be a friend, it could be a parent, it could be a sibling. Whoever. A co-worker. Whatever. Find someone to talk to because you don't have to carry this bullshit alone. And when you find that safe space, it's going to matter. It's going to change things. You see, guys, I didn't plan to be in the middle of all this. But I keep seeing it over and over again. Men aren't avoiding help. They're avoiding the cost of being seen asking for it.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

That's why we don't speak up in groups. But they will talk when it's one-on-one if they think it stays there.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

And when the the second that cost disappears, even for a moment, as happened for me in that gun store yesterday, everything opens up.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

And your life changes. That's it for today, guys. Take what's useful. If something in this hit, do not ignore it. Choose and keep moving.