Courtside with Marc
A fan's view of the NBA and the people that make it so exciting.
Courtside with Marc
Horace Grant: What He Really Thought Playing Against His Twin Brother
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NBA legend Horace Grant admits he "wanted to kick his ass" every time he faced his twin brother Harvey on the court — and their childhood games always ended in actual fights because neither could stand losing.
The 4-time NBA champion shares stories about winning championships with Michael Jordan's Bulls and later with Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant's Lakers. Grant reveals why he ranks Kobe right behind MJ as his greatest teammates, discusses the impossible task of stopping prime Shaq, and explains how the Grant family basketball legacy continues through his nephews including current NBA player Jerami Grant.
Key topics covered: Twin brother rivalry, playing with MJ and Kobe, facing Len Bias in college, 1987 NBA Draft with Scottie Pippen, championship mentality, modern NBA appreciation
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When I looked at MJ, I mean Kobe was right there. The work ethic that those two men had was unmatchable. I think the most dominant player of Courtney.
SPEAKER_01Hey everybody, Mark Israel, and welcome back to Course Night from LA. We came out here to LA for All-Star Weekend, and Byron Scott was nice enough to invite us to co-host and sponsor a charity event he was doing at a bowling alley of all places. He set us up in a separate room where it was nice and quiet, where we did some podcasts with a number of guys, including the great Horace Grant. I started by talking to him about the fact that there are a lot of twins in the NBA today, but we all know that the original OG twins were Horace and his brother Harvey. Check it out. So welcome. It's my pleasure to have with us the great, as I said, the original OG twin in the NBA, the great Horace Grant. Horace, nice to see you, man. All right, thanks for having me on, man. It was a pleasure. Good, good, good to see you. You know, before we went in the air, we were talking about twins, and there seemed to be a number in in the league today. You know, there's the Champagne chim, the twins, and there's the Thompson twins. It was you know, Brooke and Robin Lopez. But boy, when you and your brother were doing it, you guys are the original OGs, huh?
SPEAKER_00I try to tell people, you know, go ahead and Google Horace and Harvey Grant, you know, the OGs. Uh we first um came in and did our thing as as twins. And, you know, um my brother was playing for the Bullets back, the Wizards now. And of course, I was in Chicago with, you know, Michael and Scotty and and all the guys, and I used to love to play against my brother.
SPEAKER_01Did you really? Absolutely. And was it did you love it because you wanted uh you wanted to get the better of him, or is it just because uh the camaraderie of growing up together? No, I wanted to kick his ass.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yes, yes, absolutely. We I mean we grew up being I mean, nothing but love and just so competitive with each other, and it just carried on over into um the the NBA.
SPEAKER_01So talking about the uh kicking each other's ass. So when you guys were eight and ten and twelve and fourteen and sixteen, were you playing in the driveway, just trying to kick each other's butts?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. In the driveway, and then we would go to the park and play all night, you know, uh the best to seven wins, and then we would end up fighting each other because uh, you know, neither one of us wanted to lose. So uh, but it's all love.
SPEAKER_01And that that that's who would win all those games, man? Me. Horace Grant. Yeah, but you know why? It's because Harvey's not sitting here right now. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00He would have he would have said the same thing. But he would have been lying.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. But then you had a really cool thing, you got you guys went off to college together, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we spent one year at Clemson together. And then uh he's transferred to the University of Oklahoma. Okay, where he played with Mookie Blalock, Stacey King, and they went to the finals that year in '88, um, but they lost to Kansas and Danny Manning.
SPEAKER_01With a great Danny, the Danny and the Miracles teams. Yes. Danny and the Miracles, and and Stacy King has reinvented himself as uh as quite the character of Chicago, right?
SPEAKER_00Oh man, love that guy to death, man. Just spoke to him a couple weeks ago, um giving me a uh his advice about um starting uh my podcast. So my podcast is called Legends in Session. I just finished up with uh uh Bill Cartwright, Phil Jackson, Vernon Maxwell, um Jose Rios, and quite a few others.
SPEAKER_01So those are talking about OGs, man. So those are some good ballplayers. So I want to get a little personal. You know, I I told you that I went to Duke and and you still came on here, which which uh I was a little worried to be honest with you, but so so but uh but we were there at the same time, man. I'm a couple years older than you when I was in law school, but when I got there, it was really the beginning of the great uh Coach K, the Coach K run, right? So his first grade recruiting class, which in my opinion, just one of the greatest players, Johnny Dawkins. So tell me a little bit about playing against, you know, in in the ACC, you had Johnny Dawkins, you had Lenny Baez, you had uh Chris Washburn.
SPEAKER_00You had Mark Price, John Sally, yeah, Chris Washburn, uh uh countless, countless other uh great players, but um that Duke team was something special. Uh Johnny Dawkins, Tommy Amiker, Jake Billis, Mark Allery, uh you can go on and on with that team, and uh it was a team that kind of struck fear into your heart because you know they were gonna uh give their best. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And tell me, talk, talk to me a little bit about uh a guy who who has become legend legendary, unfortunately, because of his his early passing. But I I saw him play, and you obviously played against him, and he was a special talent. Talk to me a little bit about Lenny Baez.
SPEAKER_00Man, people just don't know what type of player that that young man was, especially at the University of Maryland. I remember um because I went to Clemson and I, you know, I had so many friends, football players. And whenever we played Maryland, they were like, yo, Horace, we love you, man, but you know who we're coming to see. And of course it was Lynn Bias. That young man was an incredible talent. Just unfortunately, um, you know, you know, when you, you know, make mistakes, you know, it's there's a lot of consequences going with it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was tragic. He was, you know, in an era it was before three-pointers, and it was before some of the um the training that players do now with with all sorts of sophisticated training. He he was he was ripped, he was big, he was strong, and he could shoot and he could jump out of the gym, right?
SPEAKER_00I remember um when the dean dome just opened way, way back. I remember watching Lynn Byers go in and just dunk on people backwards, uh shooting 15 to 18 foot jumpers. I mean, really getting high off the ground, and as you said, like 6'8, just chiseled. Um, there was no weakness in his game. And um they won that particular game. Yeah, that's unbelievable.
SPEAKER_01I actually I went to uh I was in the Dean Dome for that for the first game, and he I think he scored 41. Yes. Um, without a three-pointer in those days, with with without a three-pointer. So you play a Clemson, then obviously you had the good fortune, you know, to go to the NBA. Talk to me a little bit about where you wound up and a little bit about that journey. I mean, we all know, but I want to hear it from you.
SPEAKER_00Well, you know, uh, you know, if it I mean David Robinson was the number one pick, and after that, you kind of didn't know where you were going. Uh, but I guess it just depended on what that particular team needs at that particular time. And I was very fortunate to um uh get drafted by the Bulls in 1987, uh, along with my best friend Scotty Pippen, who I didn't know who the hell he was until that night. But um it was just uh a dream come true in terms of going in, and you know, of course, the face of the Bulls was Michael Jordan, and you know, and you know, you had the one of the best enforcers, Charles Oakley, who's like uh uh became a mentor of mine uh during that time.
SPEAKER_01And and and you know, the the the battles that they that you guys had were were legendary. You talked a little bit about about Patrick Ewan. Talk to me about some of the guys that that you battled against, that you were under, you know, underneath the boards battling against, and and who are the toughest guys that you played against.
SPEAKER_00Man, just much respect to my era of of basketball in the late 80s and early 90s. I mean, you got guys like, of course, Patrick Ewan, and a lot of people don't recognize uh another forward was um Kevin Willis from the Atlanta Hawks. I mean, seven foot, just chiseled strong. And Charles Barkley, man, one of the best forwards I ever played against. Wow. I mean, they don't call they didn't call him the round mound and rebound for nothing, but um 6'4, just six six tops, but so athletic at his size.
SPEAKER_01And and who is the toughest guy for you to guard? Was was was Charles Boy the toughest guy for you to guard?
SPEAKER_00Or uh tough for me to guard. Um during my early years, I would say uh Larry Bird. My my first couple years because he was the veteran, and you know, people um of course go and look up Larry Bird if you don't know. One of the greatest uh forwards ever played a game. Um later in my career, it was two guys I had trouble with. I I got to give them respect, the shout out. Uh Derek Coleman. Incredible, yeah, and uh Rasheed Wallace. Wow. I mean, in terms of posting you up and taking you out to the three-pointers.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Derek Coleman also a number one pick, right? And he could take you down low. He's a big guy, and he had he could post you up and he could step out and hit the jumper.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, 6'10. Uh he was that that three-point shooter uh before it started now. So wow.
SPEAKER_01Who's uh I mean obviously you you you played with uh you you played side by side with with the guy that most people would say is the greatest player ever. Um and I'm guessing I'm guessing you're gonna put Michael in that category. Other than Michael, who who who are the greatest guys you ever played with, man?
SPEAKER_00That that you know I've been blessed to to have played with uh future Hall of Famers and Hall of Famers. Um I would say the second player, man, this is so tough. Um, it had to be the late great Kobe Bryant. Yeah. Because when I looked at MJ, I mean Kobe was right there. I mean, the work ethic that those two men had was unmatchable. I think the most dominant player, of course, was Shaq. I mean, I played with him Orlando and I played with him when he matured um with the Lakers. So uh I saw both Shaq, the young and the mature.
SPEAKER_01And he was he was he was just an unstoppable force, right? I mean, how do you stop a guy that big, no? You can't.
SPEAKER_00You just have to pray and hope that uh he don't make his free throws. That's where the Hacker Shack was born. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01Uh and and now you have a real blessing that you got your nephew playing in the NBA, right?
SPEAKER_00How cool is that? I mean, just so wonderful. Um, you know, my brother, you know, he gives me crap all the time. You know, I got a son in the NBA. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, that's my nephew. So but it's wonderful to see how he matured uh when he first came uh in the league um from uh Syracuse uh young and kind of didn't know a lot, but he worked his butt off during the summertime and uh the rest of his history. Yeah, he's he's really carved out a heck of a career. Yeah, I mean, um I wish he could have stayed in Denver and uh uh maybe he would have got a championship, but uh he felt that his value was someplace else. And uh, but you know, he's carved he he's carved his name out uh in the NBA.
SPEAKER_01And you told me what right before we went on, you have you have a bunch of nephews and other family members. Well, let's let's get it, let's get shout-outs for all of them. And we're um you got a whole bunch of grants playing all over the place, right?
SPEAKER_00I got my uh my other nephew um Jaron. Um he started off with the Knicks, uh, Bulls, and he played with the Washington Wizards for a while, and now he's over in Greece winning championships, getting MVPs, um, and and and kicking ass. Uh my other nephew, uh Jare, um just left Mexico. He played in uh Europe for so many years, and now he just retired.
SPEAKER_01So that's that's so so so Harvey's got a bunch of kids he gets to get to he gets to keep watching, huh?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, he's he's traveling all the time. You know, he goes over to Greece and visits my nephew and watch a few games. Uh he go uh went over to Europe uh a couple times to watch my other nephew. That's so cool. Do you follow the game today? Are you still a fan? I'm always a fan of the NBA. Um, I was just watching uh uh Wimby last night against the Lakers and to be seven to five and and and crafted like that and skill set like that is unreal. And then you look at Luca and even the Joker. I mean, being seven feet, uh probably can't jump two inches off the ground, but uh getting triple doubles and um you know the NBA is in a great place. I think it's amazing.
SPEAKER_01You know, it's yeah, I I agree with you, man. And you said you said something pretty cool. Uh you said, you know, your era that you played in, you know, mid eighties, late 80s, early 90s. Um I don't want to say it's overlooked, but you know, but but but people talk, you know, people ever remember what's going on today. You played in an era filled with just incredible players, incredible battles, and incredible rivalries, and you were right in the thick of all of it.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I've been very blessed. I mean, in terms of um uh maturing as a player, um, you know, you're going up against guys like Carl Malone, Beer Lambier, Charles Oakley, and and so forth. I mean, if you're not mentally strong and physically strong, you know, you're gonna get left by.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, you you're obviously very strong. You carved out a hell of a career, man. You put a lot of smiles on a lot of people's faces. How many rings you wind up with? Four. Damn, that's pretty good, man. Three with the Bulls and uh finished with the Lakers. That's unbelievable. Well, you you brought a lot of joy to a lot of fans like me, man. And and uh we really enjoyed uh watching your play, and I enjoyed spending some time with you here today.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much for having me on. It's been fun. That's good, man. Appreciate it, brother.
SPEAKER_01You're very welcome.
SPEAKER_02All right, this is the band.
SPEAKER_01All right, there you go, and that's a wrap on this week's episode. Thanks so much for watching. And since you made it this far, do me a solid. Hit the subscribe button down below, leave a review, send the episode to a buddy who you think would enjoy it. We really appreciate it. Thanks again, and we'll see you next time.