Well, Rick Perell is back here, and I hope you enjoyed part one of uh Ed Meckenbyer's interview as much as I did. It was um it was intriguing, and our our country has long been fascinated about how um our POWs could survive not for days, weeks, months, even a year, for years in an environment where uh they have very little to eat, they have very little communication, they are tortured often, uh, but they they believe in our country. And it's just mind-boggling uh to uh the rest of us how someone could spend six years in the Honoi Hilton, the Hanoi Hilton, and uh come back, especially come back as as wonderful as as Ed is, and just at the very end, uh something that just blows my mind about uh him adopting some children um even after he got back. So uh we'll be back with that one. Um I did recall after I started this that Ed and I were both inducted into the Veterans, Ohio Veterans Hall of Fame. Uh very proud of that. That's probably one of my biggest um accomplishments. Um well this picture you're gonna see was of him, me, of course. The third person is Colonel Thomas Moe, who spent more than four years at the Hanoi Hilton, another F4 pilot who punched out. And he served several, maybe six years as the Ohio Veteran Services Director. And when I was in the State House, we got close. So um I want to call out Colonel Thomas Moas as well and thank him for his dedicated service for many, many years. Um, also want to say that part one and part two are based largely, uh most of it can be read in in uh General Ed Ed Meckenbyer's uh book, uh Life on a Five Dollar Bet. And just to remind you about that book, and I will show you how you can purchase it. Um, when Ed was finished in high school, his um father was uh blue-collar, they didn't have enough money to send him to school, and he bet Ed that he couldn't get into a service academy, therefore get his education for free. Uh well, nothing's free, but it at no cost. Um, and that led Ed on his um entire life after that. It's it's a good story, it's a good read. So please enjoy it. Now, one more time. The reason we're doing two parts here today for this episode is that Ed had a lot to share with us, and I thought that if we broke it up in two parts, um, it wouldn't go that long. And I think I'd be very surprised if most of the folks out there don't enjoy his um interview greatly. So with that, we're gonna head into Ed Meckember, POW, part two. I'll see you after we're done for conclusion. Communication-wise, I know you had the Morse code that everyone already knew, right?
SPEAKER_00Nope. We knew Morris code. Air Force guy, I mean, Navy guys knew Morris code, but for us Air Force guys, Morris code was only something you learned long enough to get through the test and pilot training and to identify navigation aid. Now we used uh we used the tap code to communicate, which is a five by five matrix. Uh obviously there's 26 letters, so we took out the K. Only bad words have K's in them, usually preceded by a U and a C. But then we would tap, so you would you would be here, you know. I don't know if you can hear me tapping here or not, but I got it. We would tap so uh so an A was the first row, first one in. A B was a first row, second letter in. E was the first row, fifth letter in. So an E would be and then you drop down to so high would be second row, third letter in, second row, fourth letter in would be I, so that's high. So how a lot of guys got the tap code is is a whole interesting story. But the tap code was our primary means of uh of communicating through the uh walls, which were 18 to 24 inches thick. And we got pretty good at it. I mean you you you end up making shortcuts and things, so it ended up listening on the wall to a conversation between two guys, it would be something like I mean just like a telegraph key going, but uh but we that that's how we communicate. And then after after about three years, somebody remembered that they were a cup scout and could talk through the wall. And we put a cup up against the wall, wrap a towel around your head so you didn't make too much noise, and we would talk through the walls. Because they were s they were solid, so they would carry the vibrations you could actually and that's when we really got to have a little fun, if you will, we got to know more than just the name and the the branch of the service of the guys.
SPEAKER_01The tapping the tapping seems like it's so laborious and uh it takes so much time, but then I thought, well, you guys have nothing but time, right? Um it keeps you busy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And then when we had a situation between buildings, we'll go across uh an open space. I was one of the guys who helped develop A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K. Uh we had a hand code, and we were communicating through a little four by four inch window. So uh, you know, we we could communicate between buildings using a little little hand code that we developed.
SPEAKER_01For the first several years, uh the beatings, the food, uh pretty much you knew what to expect. But then it what was it in 73 things changed? Was it 73?
SPEAKER_00Uh no, 69, and when Ho Chi Minh died.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's right.
SPEAKER_00I'm sorry. In September of 1969, Ho Chi Minh died. And then the physical abuse as a matter of daily course stopped for a while. I mean, they would they would occasionally revert to it, I mean, if they thought you were doing something bad. Um, but uh yeah, after that it was more just a matter of deprivation. Uh rather than beating your cap out of you, they'd make you kneel on your on your knees on a concrete floor for several days, or they'd keep you awake for several days to uh try to wear you down, uh get you to the point to where you you couldn't logically uh avoid what they wanted you to say or do.
SPEAKER_01Right. And okay, so uh but there were benefits to this as well, because they moved you. Oh no, that was after the you the the uh failed recovery from the United States.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, right from the get-go, about every six they knew we'd get organized and we'd have organized resistance. So they knew that we were communicating. They they couldn't stop it. We'd always find a way to communicate. We'd always find a way to recognize and do uh, you know, whatever the senior ranking officer, if we could establish contact with him, would want us to do. So about every six months they'd move us all around and uh to different camps or different buildings within the camp and things like that. So they would kind of destroy the infrastructure that we were able to build. But um, after the Sante Raid in November of 1970, uh the Vietnamese said, oops, somebody's trying to come save these guys. That Sante Raid was uh an attempt by uh 55 Army Rangers and uh a lot of Air Force people flying dangerously low at night uh to come extract some guys from the Sante prison camp, which was actually empty before they even started planning the raid. But that's a military intelligence. But we got to watch it. We were at a camp about five kilometers away, so we saw the great air show, and several days later we were able to find out through some Vietnamese prisoners what had actually happened. But the Vietnamese kind of panicked and they put us all back downtown in the big Wallo prison. And they put us in some bigger rooms, and so we had 37 guys in a room, and we had about 19, 20 inches of space on the concrete slabs that we slept on. But that was fantastic. So for now, for the first time, instead of small groups and being inside uh yourself for 23 hours and 50 minutes a day, uh we were uh in a big room, and that lasted for about six months, and then uh we got farmed out and went back to the old housing routine, if you will. I went to a camp up on the up on the Chinese border where they figured no Americans would ever try to come save us. There were 200 of us that they put up on the Chinese border.
SPEAKER_01So um did the um attempted recovery did that lift the morale because you knew I mean it it's almost embarrassing now with their technology and intel, but um, I'm sure they did the best they could, but did that b lift up the morale a little knowing that they we still knew you guys were there and we were still trying to bring you back?
SPEAKER_00It depends on who you talk to. Uh after Ho Chi Minh died in 1969, September of 69, and the Sante Reed is say 14 months later in November of uh 1970, life kinda got a little better bearable. I mean, we had more time outside, more time to actually see other Americans. And we actually, you know, little things like we got a second blanket. For the first umpteen years, we had one blanket and it got cold in North Vietnam. So now we got a second blanket. Uh and they even replaced some of the clothes that we've been wearing for for years. You know, one set of uh clothes that we got, the the uniform that they gave us, we got we got some new clothes. But in my mind, it was a great thing because now all of a sudden, like I said, we got 37 guys in one room. I mean, it was you know, for days we didn't sleep. We were just so busy putting faces and names together of guys that we had been only communicating with without ever seeing for years. Uh we m made a deck of cards out of some pieces of paper that the guys were able to steal somewhere along the line. And uh we had some guys who played bridge for like three days. Three days. So that amazes me.
SPEAKER_01I mean, it was just that must have been just great for their mind.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, I mean it was just a gr just a great frat party. And and we called that place uh Camp Unity, you know, because you know all of us were there, and even with the other rooms, you know, 30, 40 guys, you know, we could communicate and and share stuff. And uh like I said it lasted for about uh four or five months until the Vietnamese went back to the old housing model and we went back up on the Chinese border. And I went to a camp that had no running water and no electricity, and I lived in a room that was seven feet by seven feet with one other guy. Whoopee, right back to 1967. But uh yeah, so it it was good. Uh we didn't think there was ever any help of getting Americans, and of course, the whole idea of them starting a rescue mission after the camp is empty just kind of was a joke too. But uh but you know, at least we knew we weren't forgotten. Now, go back to about 1966 or 68. There was a guy named William Rogers who was a Secretary of State, and the Vietnamese made sure we knew that he said semi-quote, we could not let the fate of 350 American prisoners dictate the course of American foreign policy. There's a kick in the crotch for you right there. So, you know, it we kind of thought, okay, well, the reality is, you know, we were kind of uh written off in many many respects. Uh and you and you couldn't expect American foreign policy to be determined. We had you know half a million men and women serving in Vietnam at the time. You know, we got 300 of them in North Vietnam. That's that's that's the price of war. I mean, we got what, 50.
SPEAKER_01You know, I I don't know this Secretary Will Rogers. I don't I have not read about him. But he could have been being strategic, uh not letting them think that they had the leverage with you guys that they already thought they had.
SPEAKER_00Right? Exactly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So he's either real smart or real dumb.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, real smart or real dumb. I mean, it it was a when the Vietnamese told us, you know, and he might not have ever said it, but that's what the Vietnamese told us. So, you know, so many mind games. So now you get into the mode of, okay, one day at a time, I'm gonna survive. If I'm here for the rest of my life, so be it. And so there's a little a little calculation going on in your own brain that says, okay, the only thing I got right now is me, and these guys are in here with me. Uh but I'm not gonna let the bastards get me down. And that was just we always say, you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_01To the civilians and military members that didn't experience it, it just seems like a month is long, two months is long. But when you go through six Christmases, six Easters, six, um uh your kids, though those that had kids, um, you know, they go from, well, they didn't probably even see them get born, or maybe they were just toddlers and you know, then they're in high school or grade school anyway. Yeah. Um, that must have been difficult.
SPEAKER_00It was, but then again, the attitude was if we're here for the rest of our lives, we're here for the rest of our lives and we're gonna keep on keeping on. Strong, strong. And how about the mail? Uh did they get you mail? Did you No, for the first uh three and a half years there was nothing. Uh and then after that, uh not one letter, nothing. Absolutely nothing. And the Vietnamese never published a list, you know, for the first several years of you know, we have Jack Fellas, we have Jack Tomas, we have uh Fred Sylvester, and they didn't they didn't tell the world who they had as prisoners of war. And then when the guys came home early, the early releases, uh one of them, Doug Hagdal, brought out the names, because we all memorized everybody's name. Uh and brought and Doug brought out the name Ted McIntyre. Well, they figured out that it had to be Ed McEnbyer. So uh so there was no no communication. And then after my case, three and a half years, when we were started to get uh letters, they were on the American Friends Service Committee uh form, and you had to write out your your letter, the Vietnamese approved it, and if they didn't understand the word, they just take a razor blade and cut it out. And then if I see it be 1969 or when we first were allowed to receive no, it have to be later than that, 1970 or 71, uh we were able to get packages, two two kilogram packages. But most of us never got the stuff that was in it because the Vietnamese would steal it. Stuff, right? Yeah. And they and they'd torture you to sign a letter saying uh a receipt saying that due to the humanian line policy of the Democratic People's Republic of Vietnam, I have received and and but they'd beat the crap out of you to make you sign the letter. And uh funny bar story about when I when I finally got my letter that the Vietnamese weren't beating people by then, but they used to put you in a cold room. I remember it was January, and I had to pee so bad that I couldn't stand up. So when I was finally sent back to my cell, everybody's looking out through cracks in the wall and the door to see, oh, they're back torturing people. Look what they did to Meckenbar, you can't even stand up. That was just because I had to pee so bad. I couldn't stand up. So uh there was never any uh we love you so much we're gonna give you anything.
SPEAKER_01Nah. So um let's go towards the end. You had no clue uh that uh your uh recovery was imminent. You you didn't you know news. So talk a little bit about how you started seeing your captors um uh their their their um processes, their attitude change a little bit and what they were telling you.
SPEAKER_00Well, you know, they've argued for years about the the peace talks, whether they were two-party talks, four-party talks, round tables, flowers, flags, all of that crap. So we kind of got a um well, you know, they actually started talking in 1968. So uh we had a slogan contest and uh we thought, sure, okay, they're talking, they're gonna end this sucker. Their winning slogan in 1968 was Golden Gate in 68. All right, cool. Well, they kept on arguing about whether there were four-party talks, two-party talks, flowers, no flowers, round table, square table, we're in 1969, but they're talking, so surely the war is gonna end. We had another slogan contest, and the winning slogan in in 1969 was everything's fine in 69. Well, guess what? They kept talking, they kept not coming to an answer to the war. We're in the 1970. But that's okay. We're resilient, we're gonna have another slogan contest. And what do you think the winning slogan was in 1970? Uh, F it. Four-letter word ending in UCK. That was the winning slogan. Because now we're into the mode of, okay, we really are. Nothing's gonna happen. Nothing's gonna happen. We're really here for the end of our lives. Okay, so then, like I said, I was with a group of guys they put up on the Chinese border. And uh in in the middle of uh, well, they'd signed the peace agreement on the 27th of uh January, but the Vietnamese must have known things were getting serious after uh the bombing linebacker one and two in December. So in the middle of January they put us on the trucks, and the trip that had taken basically 36 hours to get us up to the Chinese border, high speed express about 12 hours to get us back down to Henoi, and they put us in the Hanoi Hilton. All of us again, and they were in a larger group. We've got 20 guys together now, because we're back in those big rooms. So there's really nothing said, uh nothing overt in terms of their actions that let us know that the war was there, but obviously something had changed. Well, here we are, and uh all of a sudden the the peace agreement was signed on the 27th, and the Vietnamese had five days to tell us about the protocol, the procedures, the process by which we'd be released. So at the literally at the uh at the twelfth hour of the last day, they let us come outside. And for the first time ever, we uh were allowed to have our senior ranking officers in front of a military formation. We stood in Big Square at attention, and the Vietnamese read the protocols, which in summary said as the last 25% of the soldiers leave South Vietnam, 25% of the prisoners would be released. So this would be, you know, four groups of about 112 guys, 113 guys, would be released, as a corresponding percentage of the troops in South Vietnam left. Well, they read the protocols to us, and there were lots of cameras and lots of people looking at us, and we just stood there. Our leaders turned around, dismissed the formation, and we were in silence, we walked back to our cells.
SPEAKER_01Because we knew it was a hard. Were they Ed, were they expecting you guys to cheer and go nuts?
SPEAKER_00Yep. And you just kept it calm. Because they kept saying, Well, aren't you happy? I ignored them. Just went back inside. Because we knew it was a fake. There was absolutely nothing that the Vietnamese ever told us that we that we truly believed, you know. And um so we went back to our cells, and uh sure enough, on the 12th of February, the first hundred and twelve guys were were released. They disappeared from our numbers. And per the uh protocols, the site of our last detention had to be inspected by the International Control Commission. Well, we were living in a nicer place than we had ever lived in for the previous six years, or never Alvarez's case, the previous eight and a half years. And uh we had closed that we had never seen before. So we uh had made it clear right from the get-go that we're gonna go home in the order we were shot down, and uh and that was it. So the first group of guys were the you know Alvare Alvarez, Caden Lockhart, Bob uh Schumacher and the early guy. And then we threw in that group uh some the B-52 guys who had been injured. They still had you know some wounds that needed medical attention. So I got bumped back to the second group. So uh that that that's way well, but again, you know, we didn't we didn't really think that the war was over, that they were gonna turn us loose. And we certainly weren't about to let them make it a propaganda deal by jumping up and down and kissing the Vietnamese goodbye. No way. Oh then how did it f unfold? Well, just like I said, there they were there were four groups. Now I was part of a of a group that was interesting. Henry Kissinger came to Hanoi, and so there's this next list of 112 guys who are going to be released, and the Vietnamese say, as a sign of goodwill, we are going to release to uh twenty prisoners a week early. So they handed Henry the paper and he went down there and just casually made check marks next to 20 names. So we were not the next 20 on the list, which was the way we wanted to go. So when the Vietnamese came in and said 20 people are going to be released a week early, we looked at the list and said, We're not the next 20 guys. We're not going. So for five days we refused to put on the fancy clothes they they gave us. We wouldn't uh form up, we wouldn't leave. And uh after five days, an American colonel came into the camp in uniform. He wasn't allowed to talk to us. He was allowed to talk to uh Colonel John Flynn, who at that time was now the senior ranking amongst the rest of the prisoners there. And Colonel Flynn came in and said, Okay, apparently this is a legitimate release, uh it's it's out of order, we know, but go ahead. And we said no. And he said, Why? He said, No, look, after all this time, we're not about to be used, you know, some potential propaganda thing. Let's be kind. There were some guys who came home early. We don't think well of them. So we weren't going to come home even if it was a day or two early. Well, he went down the line that gave us all a direct personal verbal order on his authority to leave. So we we reluctantly put on our clothes, because again, senior ranking officers taking responsibility. We don't like it, and we told the Vietnamese, if we see one camera, we're going back in. We're not going. So uh we marched out of the ha Hanoi Hilton uh in military fashion, got on the bus, 20 of us. They drove us out towards the airport. We saw the C-141 land, and the Vietnamese pulled into one of their fighter squadron areas where they had candy and some drinks and things. You must refresh yourself for the trip. Your airplane is delayed. Well, heck, we'd seen the airplane land. So just one more time trying to get some you know pictures and us kissing them goodbye, but we just sat there. So after about 10 or 15 minutes, they said, okay, your airplane's here, go. So we went over and and uh and we went through the thing. So I get on the C-141, and there's this civilian guy sitting there, big guy in a black suit, crew cut, and uh obviously civilian, I don't know what he's doing there, but I reach over and say, Hi, my name is Ed McEnr. And he says, Yeah, I know. What the hell have you guys been doing for the last five days? I'm Dr. Roger Shields, and my job is to get as many of you guys out of here as fast as I can, and you guys have been screwing around for five days. Hey man, we got our rules. So uh anyhow, it became subject of a joke after that, uh between uh me and Dr. Shields. But uh you know, we weren't about to be used even then. We were gonna stay there. And uh so eventually. Yeah. And eventually everybody came out, the last group came out on the 5th of March, I believe it was. And uh happily ever after, uh four hundred and sixty one of us out of North Vietnam.
SPEAKER_01Uh bringing you home.
SPEAKER_00Uh well again, yeah. We thought there's something's gotta go wrong. We we still didn't trust the Vietnamese. So it wasn't until we got out of Vietnamese airspace that uh the the crew announced that we were feet wet outside Vietnamese and then the airplane kind of broke loose. Uh it's real. It's it's real. I mean fighter pilots don't cry, but I think there might have been a tear shoe shed as we uh realized what was going on and so then you know the blur of hugging and shaking hands and uh and actually you know the other thing you do is you start getting a little afraid. You don't know what you're going back to. You know you're not in great physical shape. You don't know what's gonna happen to your body or to you or anything else. And uh, you know, and then just on the military side, you know, from the class of nineteen sixty-four there were eleven guys who were still captains in nineteen seventy-three. Everybody else had been promoted. So we're six years behind our contemporaries. You know, what kind of a career are we gonna have now? You know, six years less of education, experience, uh, you know, what's gonna happen. So then you start, you know, I'm not really sure I want to do this because I don't want to know what's I'm gonna know here in a few days. You know. Interesting.
SPEAKER_01Yes. I mean, I think your average civilian would think you guys just be elated, uh, everything's um rainbows and unicorns, right? Yeah. But yeah, there are some currents and and relationships, and now the kids are who are the kids are, you know, they might have been cute little six-year-olds. Now they're terror ten or teenagers, right? Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00You know, and uh it was you know, just all of a sudden the reality starts setting in, and uh you're not sure you want to face it. But uh but we did. I mean, in in my case, and most everybody's case, you know, uh the fears that they had about our mental and physical condition weren't borne out. I mean, we had hollow bones, and as I said earlier, we all had you know two or three or four or five or six different parasites, and uh, you know, I spent uh several months uh as a resident of the hospital at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, where they they fixed things and took care of things and uh put us back on a diet, and again, you know, continue working on my teeth. And uh then you get back into a into a career. And frankly, most of the young guys, my age, I was one of the very few who stayed on in the service. Uh most of them got out because they realized their military career was was shot. Uh the airlines were hiring uh uh for about a year until October of 73 when the Arab Israeli war broke out. Uh and then the old guys now, as I said, you know, the average age of the guy who came home was was pushing 38. These guys are now colonels, but they have no real meaningful experience as senior majors and lieutenant colonels. Their careers are shot. Uh the young guys had big voids in their background, they'd missed all the intermediate uh uh military education and experience. So they got out. So very few of us really stayed in. And I was the last Vietnam era POW still still serving when I retired in 2004. Now, I stayed on because I like flying airplanes. After all, you know, world's greatest fighter pilot. Not that yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So uh so Ed, um looking back on all this if you had an opportunity, would you do it all again? Would you how uh are there any things you look back and say, maybe I would have become a lawyer? Um any regrets?
SPEAKER_00Oh no. I mean, uh all I gotta do is look at the wall in uh in Washington. 57,000 plus men killed in action. All I gotta do is look at the the guys I saw down there during the six months, seven months I was flying combat missions. I saw a lot of guys uh get killed. I got no reason to complain. You know, of the 66 of us at REF Bentwaters who volunteered to go to Vietnam, and this is not statistically representative of the everybody who went to Vietnam. Of those 66, I was the 33rd to get shot down. Of those 33, four of us lived. Yeah, let me let me correct you. You did not get shot down. I did not get shot down. Well, I'm talking to the other guys, yes. Yeah, okay, I got you. Of the uh of the 66, 33 had the chance to eject from an airplane. Um four of us lived. So, you know, I got no complaint. I mean, uh God gave me a opportunity to continue living. When I jumped out of my airplane, it's one and three-quarter seconds from the time you pull the handle until you have a parachute. Before my parachute opened, that airplane hit the ground at 700 miles an hour. Am I a lucky dude? You bet. Am I a grateful dude? You bet. Thank you, St. Kevin. I mean, so you know, I there's there's not a single day that I uh I wouldn't want to go back and do it again. I didn't need six years of training as a POW to have the my appreciation for life and people that I do now. And I'm not some, you know, I don't wrap myself up in a flag every day and spend 16 hours a day on my knees thanking God for the thing. I'm just I'm very grateful to God that I had the time. I'm very grateful for the fact that I had a chance to serve my nation. And uh but, you know, no, I wouldn't do it again. I don't regret it.
SPEAKER_01Well, welcome back to Pitbull 214 Podcast. Again, Rick Perales here with my guests, uh General, Lieutenant General retired Ed Meckenbyer. Major General. I just gave him a promotion. Thank you, sir. Major General, Ed uh Meckenbyer. Um, I hope you enjoyed that as much as me. I mean, if you couldn't tell, I would just question after question. I even cut the general off a few times because it's just fascinating to be six years, uh prisoner of war. And um, as you can tell, Ed is just a humble, nice fella who takes it easy whooping me up on the golf course. Uh so that was the main portion of our interview. But there were two uh very special aspects that was cut off, and I I I didn't want to do this unless we talked about it. Now remember, we will put all Ed's information, how to get his book. Um so if you want to contact him, tell him what you think, uh, or buy his book, which I tell you is good, um, then uh you'll have the right information. So the first thing I want to talk to you about, Ed, is your family. I couldn't leave that off. So I'm a good I'm good friends with one of his daughters and his son who worked at the golf course. Um but um he has uh children that he adopted that are all Asian, which is just very unique, and people wonder why. So tell us a little bit about that, Ed.
SPEAKER_00Well, the oldest daughter is Vietnamese, and uh she's now uh 51 years old and uh a professor at Kent State. Uh my second daughter is from Thailand, recently retired from the Air Force after 22 years. And my third daughter, who is Korean, is uh living here in Kettering, Ohio and has her own daycare business. And then the baby of the family who uh natural made, our son Bo is now a senior master sergeant in the Air Force, and he is the sortie generation superintendent for all those lovely B-2 bombers who have been uh doing some action. Getting some action to say the least. Yeah. So uh he's gonna be visiting him. You're heading out there to give a speech here soon, right? Yeah, I'm going to go out to Whiteman Air Force Base, home of all the B-2 bombers, and uh speak at their annual Air Force ball in uh September.
SPEAKER_01So so tell us um what uh what was your incentive in in adapting adopting um the Asian babies when you did?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00The priest at Fairborne, Ohio, his sister uh was a uh charity nun running a convent in Vietnam, and asked me one day after after Mass, he says, Hey, would you be interested in uh adopting one of these Vietnamese kids and the baby lift? And uh absolutely. So No hesitation. No hesitation. Very cool.
SPEAKER_01And was that Molly? That was Molly. And Molly's the one I know who helped me on my campaigns, and she is absolutely lovely.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, she's she's a real pistol. She's a pistol. And has been a couple times elected the most respected, loved, adored uh professor at Kent State University. Doesn't surprise me about that. She's just that kind of a woman. Okay.
SPEAKER_01So that's the first one you got. How'd you get the second one? Oh, she had to have a sister. She had to have an Asian. You initiated the second one.
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah. Okay. You can't have just through Catholic services? Yeah, through Catholic services in Springfield. And then the third one was just, well, why not? And they're they're all doing great. They're all doing fabulous. And they'll all be here in a month. Uh yeah. Uh Karen now is retired down in Florida with her husband, who is also retired Air Force, and they're coming up to visit Ohio and escape the heat of Florida for the heat of Ohio for a few days. Maybe an even trade.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, maybe. So um I just think that's interesting because uh uh you could not you you couldn't blame um the general or any of his colleagues after what they went what they went through to be bitter. And the last thing they might want in their household is you know, someone that has the same um the same ethnicity, thank you, as his captors. Um but uh he's not that way. And uh his kids are wonderful and they were brought up in a a very loving and uh uh uh Christian uh household. So uh good on them for that.
SPEAKER_00Well, you know, and you may want to edit this out when you get done with this, but people have asked me, so how could you adopt the Vietnamese after what they did to you? I said it was simple. We got her, and when she turned 16, I just tortured her. So that's not coming out. Well, but so we're evil. Okay, that's good. But now she tortures me because you know she's got that power of attorney and all the rest of that good stuff for the rest of my life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's it's tough when your kids grow up and they're smarter than you are. Absolutely. But uh yeah, she's lovely, and I'm I'm sure she's heard that joke with time or something.
SPEAKER_00Oh, well, yeah. Matter of fact, she and I just did about six months ago, we did a uh 50th anniversary of the baby lift at Kent State. And uh we'll talk to an audience of about 500 people there on the campus at Kent State, which of course is famous for a lot of reasons uh given the Vietnam War. But uh I was able to embarrass her one more time.
SPEAKER_01Get a good laugh.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah. She brings it up quite often. I could see that. She likes to show her scars. You're terrible.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah. But funny. I love it. So the other thing we want to talk about and to kind of end this on was his last flight. Um and and I don't want to even start to butcher it. Why don't you tell us what the last flight was about and how it occurred and some of your emotions when uh you flew that?
SPEAKER_00Well, the tradition in the Air Force is when you have your Finney flight, as it's called, it's usually a big deal. You fly around the pattern and the fire trucks come out and shoot water across the airplane. Well, I was assigned as a part-time flyer with the 445th airlift wing at Rack Patterson, Air Force Base, and have been flying with them for about five years.
SPEAKER_01And they were back at 141s back.
SPEAKER_00Back in 141s. Okay. Not real proud of my big airplane time, but being a fighter pilot, but I thoroughly enjoyed my time with the 445th, made some great friends. And so when my retirement came up uh in 2004, they initiated something for which I'll be forever grateful: a chance to fly the aircraft that had brought me out of Hanoi.
SPEAKER_01The same exact one.
SPEAKER_00Same exact airplane. I got to be the uh aircraft commander flying the airplane back to Hanoi, where we picked up uh two sets of remains from uh missing in action in the Vietnam War, brought them back to Hawaii along with the 19 sets of remains from the Korean War for identification and reconciliation or repatriation as it's called uh with their families. So my Finney flight, rather than just you know go around the flagpole a couple times, ended up being a 13-day journey, uh 25,000 miles, basically almost circumnavigating the globe, uh lots of flying time, and uh culminated in coming back in the Wright Patterson Air Force Base for the more traditional Finney flight with the hosing down and everything else. So was it emotional for you? Very emotional because you know I I I personally don't have any scars from the uh from the war, uh uh, you know, from the experience. Uh six years is a long time. It came and it went. But it was just I I I felt good about being able to help two families get some closure on what happened to their family, to their family member who was uh missing in action in Vietnam. So uh you know I followed it and eventually we found out who those two sets of remains were by name, and were able to uh give some closing and healing to their families. So that would that was important to me, and it felt good. So you actually got to know whose remains in the family. I I have the names, but I but I never followed up by you know jabbing the family one more time. I let the official uh Air Force protocol play its way. Yeah and bring them home. So it's good. And that's the last time this greatest fighter pilot ever flew. Oh no, no, I still fly. Oh, you fly private? Uh yeah, I have a I have a friend who has a uh little business jet, and he uh on rare occasion. How silly of me. Yeah. Thinking you quit. Yeah. On very rare occasion I get to fly with Tim, and uh I haven't generated any insurance claims for him, so I'm still doing okay. Yeah, you're doing pretty good for how old? 80 84.
SPEAKER_0184. And what was your golf score today? Uh I think it ended up being a 78. Yeah, so still topping his eight. So listen, General, I can't tell you how much I appreciate this, and I hope that we got everything in this time. And um I look to be probably pushing this out within a month or so.
SPEAKER_00Well, good. And you know, I'm just awfully proud to be part of this mission. I mean, just for a day. Rick, you're doing great stuff. Guys and gals, there's people out there. If you think you need help, ask. If you uh don't know where to ask, ask another vet, because I think we all have an obligation to be advocates, you know, and maybe we can't be the solution, but we can help guide people. No doubt. So again, what you're doing is so very, very important. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, I was gonna ask if you have any final words, but that was it.
SPEAKER_00You can't top that. Okay, well, thank you. Well, thank you for what you're doing. Keep it up. Yeah, God bless you, sir. Thank you. Thank you. You're a good friend. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So with that, uh, we're finished here. I hope you enjoyed it. I know it was long, but um I'll tell you, when I listened to it, I just couldn't couldn't take my attention away from it. It's it's a good story, and it's something, you know, when when we talk a bit, uh one of the things about Pitbull 214 is there are a lot of stories out there that we're gonna lose to, you know, in five, ten, fifteen years, all the World War II vets. And I'm gonna do my part in trying to dig those up. Uh uh for one, it helps keep that history in um like with Ed, he's gonna have his grandkids, and they're gonna have kids, and they're gonna look at this one day and say, hey, there's great grandpa. He has to fly fast, you know, real fast. Then it won't be so fast, it'll be slow. But um, yes, I thank everyone out there for listening. Please pass it on. And if you have any ideas or anyone you think that has a uh a unique, inspirational, um uh suspenseful story, military story, please let me know. I'll I'll ring them up and I'll see if I can't get him or her uh on my show. So with that, God bless you uh for our troops. Keep doing what you're doing, keep safe, win this battle, and get home to your loved ones and or pit bull out. God bless. Well, I hope you guys enjoyed part two, as well as part one in the entire Ed Meckenbyer interview. I must tell you though, that I had been looking forward to this interview getting Ed on the air when I was even thinking about having a podcast. And he is a very sought-after uh interviewee, talker. Um he, of course, author. Um so I was um very pleased when he honored my request to come on my show. And uh I want to make sure I did him justice as well as the show. So again, Ed, thank you so much. I look forward to uh um getting together again, uh, probably to golf. Uh I know you're up for it every day, so thank you for everything you've done, my friend. Much appreciate it. Um I want to talk a little bit as we do the conclusion about my website. Um I'm putting a lot of attention into the website, as as is other people, uh Craig Johnson. And uh eventually it is going to be uh easy to navigate and full of information. Scheduled events for vets, uh a picture gallery, uh, video gallery, um uh interviewees. Uh if you want to be on the show, you can fill out a form and I'll get a hold of you. Um the schedule for uh the videos, and and let me remind you about uh three weeks, four weeks ago, we started going audio-only uh versions of our episode. Same episodes, we just have it in video format and we have it in audio again, knowing that there are people out there that rather do audio with headsets on as they're cutting the grass or cleaning a house or driving or flying on long trips. So I want to make this as convenient to all of you so that we can get it to as many vets and hopefully um enhance their lives and helping them out and their families. So um also I want to say that um Miami Valley Communication Council and Kettering, or or maybe it's in Centerville, it's right online, uh, those folks have been wonderful. And that's where we do most of our taping when it's not over the internet. Um those folks do not charge me or anyone to borrow their podcast booth. They encourage it. Uh they help set it up, they get it all ready to go. Um not only that, it doesn't cost any money. Other uh entities will charge you money to use their podcast booth. And in addition to all that, they will broadcast it to their Dayton community free of charge. So I get all the uh vets and veteran families in Dayton potentially watching my show for free. So uh a great deal, those guys are very helpful. Uh uh Richard and Mike, uh wonderful helpers and uh much, much appreciated. So lastly, I want to talk about um my next podcast. It's with a uh a dear friend. Over the years, as I was in elected office, uh, I was at many events with Dr. Jerry Lynn Maples, who runs the Blue Star families in the Reed, the Southwest uh Ohio region. Uh and maybe it trickles out into the other adjacent states. But um I I don't want to um get ahead of myself. Jerry Lynn will talk about what she does and how she does it. She's lovely, she's got a good story, but I'll tell you, they really help our veteran families, our military families, especially when one military member, uh the either the father or mother is being deployed. Um she'll have functions that entertain the children. At the same time, they'll have goods to give away to the families. Um they have all kinds of events, uh, they have uh special uh guest speakers come in and talk. Uh I remember one of the first ones I was at had uh rows and rows of household items, uh detergent, uh uh food, uh fresh fruit, even, um just tons of items that uh uh the uh veteran and military families get for free uh because we know that they struggle. Uh many, many um military families struggle and they have young kids, so it's a great program. And I'll make sure that we have um her uh donation button up there in case you feel so inclined to give to this great resource. So uh a couple pictures of Jerry Lynn doing her thing, and I look forward to her being up after uh we get uh General Meckenby's story aired. With that, I want to thank everyone again. I want to thank you for getting the word out. My my numbers are growing and growing. Um I got all kinds of different stories out there, different organizations, and um I look forward to when people give me input on the kind of things they like. And uh I know that my guests enjoy it when people get a hold of them. So uh with that, I want to thank you. I want to um ask you to be safe in these hot summer months, and uh God bless you and God bless America. I'm out.
SPEAKER_02It's now live still We can do it all right, don't let you The world's always coming to an end. Don't let it scare you out of living. Look at me, mom against so large. A little baby boy, did it escape poverty, did it, hit the lottery, did it.
unknownI let all these boys do the rap in me. I'm a man and my word, I live it. Every day I say thank you. Every day I give thanks, every day's thanksgiving. Living is giving Introduce Nash call to a new culture, winning every second, every minute, every hour, every day, every year. I'm here.
SPEAKER_02Just live your life like friends, and not your way and have no fear.