EP. 8 Providing Feedback as a Leader

Building on last podcast's conversation about reactive leadership, Karina and Laura dive into the how — how to give consistent, meaningful feedback without coming across as a micromanager.

In this episode, they walk through a practical framework for having those tough conversations with your team members, including:

• Naming the specific behavior — why blanket statements like "you need to talk less" don't work, and what to say instead
• Leading with curiosity — asking questions before jumping to conclusions or solutions
• Closing the gap — addressing the root cause of the behavior, not just the surface issue
• Setting clear expectations — being explicit about the future behavior you're looking for and giving a realistic timeline for improvement
• Following up — why the feedback loop matters and how to hold yourself accountable to it

They also discuss why feedback gets a bad reputation (only 26% of workers find the feedback they receive helpful!), how silence is itself a form of feedback, and how modeling a feedback culture at the leadership level creates psychological safety throughout the entire team.

Whether you're a frontline manager or a leader of leaders, this episode gives you the language and tools to start the conversation — and keep it going.

🎙️ Sisterly Advice Podcast — practical leadership wisdom for healthcare managers.

For more, visit: rnhive.org

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Sisterly Advise podcast. My name is Karina. And I am Laura. And last time we talked about reactive leadership and the cost to your team when we're so reactive. So this week we really wanted to focus on how do we not become reactive? How do we give continuous feedback to our team members where we don't show up as micromanagers? And how do we move away from this reactive culture to a more proactive approach?

SPEAKER_01 0:29

We all have been in those spaces where we feel like we work super hard all day long, stopping fires. And you go home and you feel like you didn't accomplish anything. But in the meantime, you have stopped crisis with a patient deteriorating, your staffing changed three or four times throughout the day. You have to attend multiple meetings, patient complaints or issues. And so, how do you move out of that and spend more time with your team members to help them grow and solve problems?

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Because we talked about how that reactivity too makes an environment where our team members don't feel safe bringing us problems. And so, how do we again round so that we're giving real-time feedback? And we've talked about that. But I think now the hard part and what we really want to talk about today is how to give the feedback, right? We've talked already that you have to give real-time feedback as you're coaching, right? That's how you develop your team. We've talked about how we don't want to overreact to certain things and we want to be very intentional with every action we take. So today we really want to talk about maybe a simple framework on how to have the conversation.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

For the most part, our tendencies and natural progression is to wait for things to happen. So wait for the event to come, for the survey to give us the result on how our team members are doing. For Karina, you use a, and I don't remember the name, of we wait for the bad event to happen to do something. And so, how do you move from that culture of waiting for something to happen to preparing your team to prevent that those events from happening, to be ready and create a system? Because it's really creating about creating systems and creating processes that help them understand when things are happening and trends are coming up to be able to handle it themselves and to grow.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

So, one of the things that I've seen leaders struggle with a lot is sometimes just starting the sentence. Sometimes we're so afraid of people being upset at us or us coming out as micromanagers, or even just the guilt of how hard our nurses are working, that we feel bad saying anything, that we have a really hard time of how to even start the question or how to start the conversation. And so the first thing you really just need to do is state the specific behavior. A lot of the times when someone feels receives feedback where it feels like an attack is because we weren't specific about a behavior. And instead, we just said a blanket statement such as, you need to talk less. What does that even mean? What does when do I talk less? What it felt more, it feels more like an attack versus stating a specific behavior, such as when this person is doing this presentation, try to step back and listen more so that you're analyzing or understanding what's going on, right? So being very specific as to what the requirement or expectation is a little bit more, it feels less of an attack and more of a helpful feedback that you can apply.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Yeah, being being more specific also about remembering the examples. So using examples because that gives you objective data on what you saw. It's not about feedback, it's not about the person and helping people grow is not about who they are, but what behaviors are they demonstrated that need to be corrected or improved, or what behaviors they're using really well and are hardwired that they can continue to use to help themselves and their team. And I think that sometimes feedback is taken as a negative with a negative connotation because people only hear about feedback when something bad or something goes wrong or there is a performance review. But if we make feedback a normal process in your area and your teams, then peer review becomes something as a second nature that I feel like if I'm always hearing good and bad things about my performance, it becomes more natural to be okay with receiving feedback because it is hard to recognize that I have faults and that I need to improve. But when I hear about the positive too, it helps.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

And again, I think the really important part is just being very specific with the examples and just making the highlight of the example instead of just blanket statements. And sometimes we use blanket statements as a defense mechanism as well, because we are trying not to be mean or we're trying to just get over with the feedback, because even you as leaders are probably just as nervous about giving the feedback. But just be very specific. Name the behavior. Another important part about naming the behavior is if you see something, you have to say it because what you don't say is you allowing it. So that not saying something is as much as loud as saying something. So understand that your silence is also feedback.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

And your silence means tolerance. So what you allow, you tolerate. So let's say if you have a team member who's always late and you don't say anything about it, and you feel like that's not the right thing, but you don't say anything, it is okay to be late in your unit. So if you see it one time, just come and say, Hey, why what is the barrier to get here on time? Sometimes it's really a problem with lateness because the person is always late, and that's something that they need to correct. And sometimes you're gonna find out that there are barriers for the team member to get there on time, and you may be able to help them fix things, but asking the question and saying something when it happens is so important.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Yeah. So an example, so even just staying with the tardiness example, an example of being specific with the behaviors, you say, I've noticed that the last three shifts you've been late. Tell me more about that. That transitions you to the next, whereas asking that question, like Laura says, you don't want to just assume that you know the answer and you don't want to just automatically give the answer. Really leading with curiosity is so important because how else would you know what the actual problem is? So for the tardiness example, it would really be the specificity is I've seen you be late the last three shifts. Tell me more about that. Because that's then dictating that it's out of their norm. It's dictating that, hey, I'm seeing very specific examples, right? It has nothing to do with who you are. You're not someone who's who sucks at their job, right? But these are just very specific behaviors that I want to talk to you about, and then tell me more about that. So giving them the opportunity to talk to you about it.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Yeah. Celebrate every opportunity you have to highlight when people ask questions, the right questions, right? Or if they start questioning a process, it's not because they're not, they don't want to do it, maybe they're not understanding, but also maybe they're starting to think ahead and say, maybe I can do this better. So try to dig in and celebrate and encourage the questions, encourage the communication, because if you your team feels like they can ask questions, they feel safe in your environment. So that is a sign of a proactive culture that you feel safe enough to say, you know what? I don't like this process. Why do we do it this way? And start digging and celebrating the thank you for asking that question. Does anybody else have the same question? And you're probably gonna ask that a few people in the group are gonna be like, Oh yeah, I always question that, but I never felt brave enough to say it. And giving people the opportunity to talk and to without judgment or without feeling like it is bad to ask questions is a sign of a healthy culture.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Yeah. And sometimes those questions can come, can come a bit aggressive, right? So I kind of do want to lean in on that because really what we're wanting to do is make sure that you as leaders have tools during those difficult times. So let's say you're in a meeting and there's some questions that are coming off a bit aggressive and you answer them and that's fine. But you're still gonna want to have a conversation with that team member because they felt aggressive or they felt you can sense that that there's a lot of emotion behind certain questions. So going back to the framework that we're trying to have you guys is you have that sidebar conversation with the team member and say, Hey, I noticed that during the meeting, you ask this question three different times. It makes me feel like you're it makes me feel like you feel you're not being heard. Tell me more about that. Or tell me more about, or in the meeting, I saw that you were getting a little upset when asking this question. Tell me more about that. Or even, I give this example so many times, but even saying, When I said this, I saw that you rolled your eyes. Can you tell me more about that? So that's already again naming the specific behavior, and then you're able to ask them and assess further as to what's going on, so that then you can actually address the root cause of the problem instead of making assumptions that this person is being defiant or that this person is just not understanding the process or not agreeing with it, right? So that is how you truly create those safe environments where you can start naming the behaviors, being very specific about the behavior that concerned you and bringing it out in the open. Transparency is one of the most important ways or the most effective ways to build trust with your team members. So just be transparent. And then they will say also, hey, I saw when you walked in, you are always upset. So then they start holding you accountable too. And you can start, you guys can all start talking about certain behaviors that are making us feel certain ways. And instead of us making stories in our minds, we start creating that culture of actually asking questions and opening up to each other versus just making up scenarios in our minds.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

And making that person feel that, yeah, they may be asking the same question multiple times, trying to make sense of it, or you really don't know why, but understanding the why behind that also causes a second effect on that person, which is what I said matters, and then you gain their engagement and their trust. So I believe that culture of proactive thinking is founded on the ability to be transparent, to have a lot of trust with your team members, and to be able to elevate them to the point where they're the ones bringing solutions, not just questions or problems. They usually, if they ask a question, they already have their solution in their head because they know, okay, why are we doing this? Why are we putting the IV pole on the left side of the bed when the plug is on the right? So they already know the answer in their own mind. They haven't looked at everything. But when you put all the situation together, you're that connector for your team. You're connecting what you're bringing from your leaders, you're connecting what is happening in your team, you're teaching them. And when you start doing it yourself and modeling that type of open, critical thinking behavior, they model that, they see it, and they start doing the same thing. So it is great to have those conversations and to be able to allow people to express their own doubts and insecurities without feeling like they're being judged. Or so creating that safe space is important for a proactive environment.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

And so at this point, we've talked about stating the specific behavior and asking questions before giving the answer, right? And so the next step to giving that feedback is then setting, addressing that gap, addressing whatever the concern is based on what you have assessed. So the reason why you want to ask questions, after stating the behavior, you want to ask questions. You, what you're doing there is assessing what's going on in their brain, right? What is where is the true gap? Is it because they truly didn't know? Or is it because they have a certain perception that affected their action? Is there what is it that's actually happened so that we can close that gap by providing the perception, right? So that's part of that. So let's go back to the example of the meeting, right? They were a little, maybe the tone was a bit aggressive in the meeting. You go ahead, hey, I stay, I see that you were a bit passionate about this question, or you asked it a few different times. Can you tell me more about that? What's going on? They tell you that they have this perception that they feel like they've said this multiple times and they never feel heard and that nothing is happening. And then you're able to now close the gap. And so you say, Okay, I'm I'm sorry that you feel that nothing is being done. I want to, this is why we implemented this committee because you guys stated this. So I we implemented this committee and then we did this because you guys stated this. And I'm like, I know that it may seem like nothing is happening, but this is what's going on. And then, so after that, so at this point, you've stated the behavior, you've asked your question, you've closed that gap. The next step is you want to make sure you're very clear about the future behavior that you're expecting of them. So, what is it that you want from them? So, whenever you're having conversations about feedback with a team member, you yourself need to be clear on what you're asking your team member. So, if the behavior you stated was aggressive, ask asking questions aggressively or ble or not letting anyone else ask questions in the meeting because they were a little too passionate, the future behavior that you're gonna be asking of them, what is that? Right? Are you gonna want them to lead the meeting? Are you gonna want them to pull you aside a little bit if you're if they're still having a lot of questions or concerns or not feeling heard? What is that future behavior being extremely clear with the exact behavior you're wanting from them?

SPEAKER_01 14:46

And a lot of the behaviors in people are behaviors that are easier than the conversation. The example that Karina is giving of somebody who's disruptive in a meeting because they're trying to ask the same question over and over is harder than deal. That most of the behaviors we're dealing with on a daily basis. So most of the behaviors are about tendencies that people have, getting late, not addressing people, not doing certain things in the unit. As you evolved in that process of giving feedback and setting expectations, make sure that when you're setting the expectations, you also give a timeline for improvement, right? You cannot say, okay, I want you to improve on how you ask the questions or timeline. You have to give people and say, we're gonna wait and see. Let me know. I'm gonna observe and we're gonna give you these resources, provide resources for people to grow, and set up that time to follow up with that person and see how that process is going, to also give them feedback on what you're observing and say, hey, I see you improving in this, or I haven't seen a lot of improvement. You still become really passionate when we're talking about certain topics, let's work on something else, or create some type of feedback loop for that person. Because from what I see in the experience with leaders that I run, one of the places where we fail the most as leaders is in going back and closing that loop and giving feedback to people after we have corrected or given certain type of direction. And so having timelines on I need to follow up next week with you and see how you're feeling, what's the process, how are you reflecting, how can you improve, what are your plans to improve? Then that helps you make that issue more important because it's not something you just say and move on, or creating an expectation and move on. It actually means that you really care about being able to ask questions in a meeting and get the right answer and help your team grow in that sense.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

It also holds you accountable to holding your team member accountable. There's so many things going on as you're as a leader that it's very easy to forget about certain conversations that you're having and certain opportunities for growth in your team members. And so that is a way to hold yourself accountable on the things that you're trying to help your team members grow in because ultimately our jobs as leaders is to consistently be growing our team members, finding opportunities to grow our team members. That's ultimately what we're doing. We're here to remove barriers and we're here to grow and develop our team members.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

With that being said, it's also important as leaders, we are in the business of growing other leaders. So teaching your whoever is next in line, your direct reports on how to give feedback and observe them and how and listen to their conversations, giving feedback and how they're talking to their team members. It's important that you're setting the expectation for that as well. Because none of us came with the manual on how to give good feedback. And it's only learned by practicing. It's uncomfortable at first. So helping your leaders and your team members be comfortable with giving feedback to other people is a process, and then you should be present and you should be part of that process to teach them on how is the appropriate way to do it. Just don't assume that your leaders that you're hiring are experts at that because what we find out is probably that it's the opposite. None of us wanna be seen as the person who's always giving feedback. And as like I said before, it's taken in a negative way until people get comfortable with it. So walking your people through that process is important.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

Yeah, something I've also seen is there's some people that don't have a problem at all giving feedback. You'd still want to make sure you're observing how that feedback is giving and the perception of the receiver because sometimes we can come off a little too aggressive, right? And so really making sure that especially as a leader, like Laura's saying, a leader of leaders. If you're a leader of leaders, it's really your responsibility to one model it, right? You have to show how to do it. And then you want to, you're gonna go ahead and start observing how they're doing it, making sure you're val they're you're able to validate or help them give them tips or tricks on how to improve and then give them that feedback that may help them continue to grow and get better. No one purposely no one purposely wants to give feedback that makes someone else feel bad. And I think that there was a study that said only 26% of the workforce actually feels like the feedback that they receive is helpful. And that's because we're also poorly trained on how to give feedback. We allow our biases or our fears to interfere, and so we we we are not clear enough because we want to be nice, and so we we add a lot of fluff to our feedback, which then makes people not even understand what you're trying to say, or we go the opposite end and we're just way too direct, where then the person feels attacked. So, really, really being intentional with the frameworks we use, and we've at this point have been doing this for such a long time and helping so many leaders through this that really this framework that we have created is truly can be repetitive and repeat repeated through event through event and and just from leader to leader.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

One of the things that I've started tracking as I'm coaching and working with leaders is how what type of events are we fixing? What type of things are we finding and how are we tracking? What are we following up on? And 70% of the things that we're tracking are communication related. People don't know how to ask the right questions. People don't know how to dig a little more because they feel like if you ask the follow-up question is digging. So learning to follow up a system, right? If somebody asks a question, okay, tell me more. Tell me more because you want to learn what they're what is in their brain and what they're following. As you ask better questions, your team members learn to ask better questions as well and start thinking clearly, start thinking ahead, which helps you create that culture of being proactive, looking ahead and say, Oh, I have a discharge. What are the things that I need in the room? Can we make this a process for everyone to have the same ideas so every room looks the same? And things as simple as that may help a team become proactive on your admissions, which is a great thing for patient experience. When your patient comes into the unit, they feel welcome because every room looks the same and your team is prepared for them. And those ideas come from team members who have asked the same question, saying, Can we create a welcome process into the unit? And so when you start communicating better, your team members start listening and communicating in the same way. So training your leaders to communicate, training your people to communicate the same way will minimize the amount of problems that you have. Like I said, six percent of issues that we find when rounding are communication. So if you fix some of that, you're gonna decrease the amount of events that you're having in your areas. And you're also teaching your team members or your leaders to communicate appropriately and solve problems for themselves.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Correct me. Correct. And then that also leads us to that peer review, right? We're always talking about how do we encourage our team members to hold each other accountable. And it starts with us, it starts with the leaders, setting that example, modeling the behavior of feedback, showing how it's safe to receive and give feedback, how it's just a part of the day-to-day. And so they start doing it with each other without it feeling like an attack. And so you do start creating this culture where it's safe to speak to each other, safe to hold each other accountable, and safe to just do what's best for our patients and each other. And that is what we have for today. This was the start of how to give feedback in a consistent basis and with a set framework, which will be coming out very soon. Thank you for being here and we'll come back next week. All righty. Bye.