Session 6: Quest For Closure

Closure… we talk about it like it’s something we’re owed. Like if we just get the right conversation, the right apology, the right ending everything will finally make sense.

But what if closure isn’t something we receive… What if it’s something we create?

In this episode, we explore the psychology behind our need for closure through the lens of storytelling and complex characters. We unpack why we chase resolution, how unresolved experiences stay with us, and what it actually looks like to move forward when the ending we wanted never comes.

Because sometimes the real shift isn’t getting answers. It’s learning how to live without them.

Disclaimer: We’re licensed therapists, but we’re not your therapists. Everything shared here is for conversation, reflection, and entertainment.

✨ Follow Once Upon a Session for new episodes exploring stories, psychology, and healing.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Some endings don't feel like endings.

SPEAKER_05 0:03

No goodbye, no explanation.

SPEAKER_03 0:05

Just silence.

SPEAKER_05 0:07

And you're left trying to make sense of something that never got resolved.

SPEAKER_03 0:11

Because sometimes closure isn't something you get, it's something you have to create. This is Once Upon a Session where two therapists turn their TBR pile into treatment plans, and every story becomes a session. I'm Nerisa. And I'm still processing things from 2007. I'm Vanessa.

SPEAKER_05 0:33

Alright, just a quick note before we dive in.

SPEAKER_03 0:36

We're both licensed therapists, but we're not your therapist.

SPEAKER_05 0:40

Everything we share here is for conversation, reflection, and maybe a little inspiration.

SPEAKER_03 0:44

But it's not a substitute for therapy. If you're struggling, please reach out to a mental health professional who can give you the care and support you deserve.

SPEAKER_05 0:52

Now that you're all checked in, have a seat on our cast. Yeah. In our studio.

SPEAKER_03 0:59

In our studio.

SPEAKER_05 1:01

Well, it's not like our real studio, it's our makeshift studio, but like we have mics now.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

Real mics. Real mics. Boom arms. We can boom.

SPEAKER_05 1:09

Yeah, and a mixer. And like our whole setup is just set uping right now. It's so cute. Alright. So welcome back, everybody. It's been a long time. We have a lot to talk about, guys. Oh yeah. This is gonna be the longest check-in ever. Reading. Okay, so reading.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:30

Oh my god. So yeah, psych. Last episode I was like, I'm gonna reread God's monsters. Oh that didn't happen. It did not happen because guess what? We're rereading Thrown of Glass. And I'm reading it. Well, I read Assassin's Blade first. You're reading it this time with Throne of Glass first.

SPEAKER_03 1:50

And I never thought I would do something like that.

SPEAKER_05 1:53

I was shocked.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

Yeah. I was just like, let me see what the hype is about. Yeah. That's the best way. Like that's I would tell someone like you have to read it that way. No, but I'm gonna see what it's like to read Assassin's Boy third.

SPEAKER_05 2:10

I'm so jealous. Please ignore Mia.

SPEAKER_03 2:13

Mia's a monster. She's the Umbra Mortise.

SPEAKER_05 2:17

Oh, she is the Umbra Mortise. Yes. Um, yeah, I'm really excited for you. I'm a little jealous because from what you've already told me, like it's everything's like a mystery, and you don't know anything about Selena. And like you're just learning, meeting people. And yeah, I'm jealous. Yeah. I also like I really am, honestly. But I also this is the first time I'm rereading anything. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:44

So your very first reread.

SPEAKER_05 2:46

Yeah. So I obviously am paying attention to things more now than I was in the beginning, which makes in the beginning, which makes sense. Um, but yeah, okay, but like if you guys have been living under a rock, Sarah J. Mass was on call her daddy, but that was such a good episode with her on there.

SPEAKER_03 3:10

Like it was just so comfortable.

SPEAKER_05 3:14

I wasn't expecting it to be what it was, to be honest. Like she really got into emotional, like I'm so glad you listened to it.

SPEAKER_03 3:24

Like you watched it because I was like, I remember when I texted you, I'm like, I don't want you to think it's just some YouTube thing. Like, you need to watch this.

SPEAKER_05 3:31

Right. No, I I remember I was like, Do I have access to this? You were like, it's just on YouTube. Just go. Um, but yeah, it got emotional. It was great, and of course, she mentioned the two, not one, but two books of Aquatara that are coming out. And now we're gonna reread all of them.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

Yeah, but yeah. We started with Throwing the Glass, and then we'll go. Are we gonna do Crescent City and then go to Avatar? Or we're just gonna do Throwing the Glass and then Avatar.

SPEAKER_05 4:04

Yeah, that's what I would like to do because by the time we get to the end, yeah. Yeah, but there's so many books coming out. Okay, so like we know we literally bullied you guys last week about Gods and monsters, but after that episode, Amber V Nicole announced that the fifth book is coming to us in November. I'm so excited. Oh my god, and like I'm so excited, and then the vibe is gonna be like we're gonna be like it's gonna be nostalgic. Oh my god. And I get it, because how the book ended, like we're going back in time a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 4:38

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05 4:38

Oops, did I just spoil it?

SPEAKER_03 4:40

You did already.

SPEAKER_05 4:41

Oops, great. Well, read.

SPEAKER_03 4:44

But yeah, I'm so excited about that. And then like other books are coming out.

SPEAKER_05 4:48

Yeah, The Nave and the Moon.

SPEAKER_03 4:50

Oh my god, that's it.

SPEAKER_05 4:51

The Nave and the Moon, Bartholomew's bag.

SPEAKER_03 4:53

Did you see that there's another duet coming out?

unknown 4:55

H.

SPEAKER_05 4:56

G. Carlton. Yeah. Called.

SPEAKER_04 5:00

H.D. Carlton. Carlton. What is it that is?

SPEAKER_03 5:05

I love it. There's a lot. And then Rebecca Yarros just announced that book four is coming out.

SPEAKER_05 5:12

She did? Yeah. I missed that. I know she's been writing it because like yesterday. I'm stalking her Instagram page. Not really stalking.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

Well, not coming out, but that she's working on it.

SPEAKER_05 5:22

She's officially working on it now because yeah, so every time I look at her post, she's like 7.5k words today, and I'm like, alright, that's a lot of words. Hello. Like, let's go.

unknown 5:34

Oh, let's see.

SPEAKER_05 5:35

Yeah. So anyway, a lot of books are coming out. We have a lot of reading to do, but don't worry, guys. We're gonna, you know, do our jobs and keep you guys entertained.

SPEAKER_03 5:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:46

Anyway. Alright, that's what's for what's new.

SPEAKER_03 5:49

Alright. So today's topic is something almost everyone has felt.

SPEAKER_05 5:56

Closure. Or the lack of it.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

Before we talk about fictional characters chasing closure.

SPEAKER_05 6:04

We have to talk about why humans need closure in the first place.

SPEAKER_03 6:09

Our brains are wired to want resolution.

SPEAKER_05 6:12

Uncertainty feels unsafe, so we keep searching for answers.

SPEAKER_03 6:16

That's why unresolved situations stick with us longer than resolved ones.

SPEAKER_05 6:21

Yeah. Oh gosh. Closure is such a huge theme in therapy for me. Like with my clients.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:29

And for me, maybe also, yeah. Closure gives us the illusion that something is contained.

SPEAKER_03 6:36

Yeah. If we understand it, we can stop feeling it.

SPEAKER_05 6:39

But a lot of the time closure isn't actually available. The amount of times people are just like they can't move on without getting this closure, and it's like you may never get it.

SPEAKER_03 6:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:50

You know? Um I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 6:54

I don't know how I feel about closure. I feel like sometimes it's not necessary. And then like sometimes people use closure to for that Hail Mary. They're like, I just need closure. Like it's your last chance to speak to the person and say whatever it is to maybe get them back. Or like it's too much sometimes.

SPEAKER_05 7:13

It's like Yeah, I agree with you. I don't I think sometimes it's not necessary. And I saw this quote one time somewhere, and it was like closure. Sometimes closure isn't a conversation, it's a decision.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:27

And I was like, wow, that's so true. Cause like sometimes you don't need all that. You just need to decide I'm done with this thing, and I'm done. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:38

Some losses don't come with explanations.

SPEAKER_05 7:41

No apology, no accountability, no conversation. True.

SPEAKER_03 7:45

And that leaves people stuck between past and present.

SPEAKER_05 7:49

Yeah, and I absolutely was there recently in my life, and no apology, no accountability, no conversation. And I had to have that closure on my own because I'm not I wasn't gonna seek out this person for that. Um so yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:08

No, that's great.

SPEAKER_05 8:09

Yeah. A lot of people believe they can't move forward until the past is settled. But healing doesn't actually require closure, it requires permission to move forward without it. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 8:21

Some people organize their lives around fixing what happened.

SPEAKER_05 8:25

If I can just resolve this, then I can rest.

SPEAKER_03 8:28

But the rest never comes.

SPEAKER_05 8:30

So the quest for closure isn't really about answers, it's about relief from uncertainty and pain.

SPEAKER_03 8:38

And fiction loves characters who can't let go.

SPEAKER_05 8:41

Because unfinished stories make powerful ones. And a really good cliffhanger.

SPEAKER_03 8:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 8:48

But yeah, think about how many books we've read and we're waiting for that closure. Because the story's unfinished.

SPEAKER_03 8:55

I think about it and throw in a glass, I'm like, what if we know more about Lorcan and them? And what did Lorgan do? Yeah, like give me a side story about some side not side character, but you know, supporting whatever they would like to be called. Supporting actor and actress. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:15

Yeah. Um, absolutely. I need that. Yep, me too.

SPEAKER_03 9:20

In stories, the search for closure often drives the entire plot.

SPEAKER_05 9:25

Revenge arcs, redemption arcs, rescue missions, all forms of unfinished business.

SPEAKER_03 9:31

Yeah. Characters chase answers, justice, or resolution.

SPEAKER_05 9:37

Because they believe peace comes after.

SPEAKER_03 9:41

Some characters become hyper-focused, some become avoidant, some turn grief into purpose.

SPEAKER_05 9:47

When closure becomes the only goal, the character stops living.

SPEAKER_03 9:52

They're surviving for the moment, everything is resolved. The most powerful stories show characters learning to live with unanswered questions.

SPEAKER_05 10:00

Choosing peace without resolution.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

So fictional quests for closure mirror the ones we go on in real life.

SPEAKER_05 10:08

Yeah, and on that note, let's get into who we're picking or talking about today. Because we have picked two characters who have been on the longest quest for closure ever, it feels like.

SPEAKER_02 10:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 10:25

And we're finally talking about the one, the only the ill the alien. The one, the only. I was so excited I put the two words together. Ailen Ashriva Galithinius. White Thorn.

SPEAKER_03 10:42

Why do you say Galathinius?

SPEAKER_05 10:44

How do you say it? Galathinius?

SPEAKER_03 10:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 10:47

Okay, well, we always it's so funny how we both pronounce things so differently in our minds. Yes, Mrs. Queen Whitethorn. And if you remember, this is the mate of Rowan.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Oh my god, you know what's so crazy? I'm doing the mate of God. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_05 11:06

Oh, this was unplanned. We're just realizing that for fictional men, we're using the two men and now we're doing their mates. Oh, that was not planned. Oh, that was not planned at all. Okay, this is great. Alright, guys. So I'm gonna get into it.

SPEAKER_03 11:23

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_05 11:24

So Throne of Glass by Sarah J. Mass, Queen Sarah J. Uh begins as the story of a young assassin fighting for her freedom and grows into an epic fantasy about hidden identity, lost kingdoms, loyalty, magic, and survival. As the series unfolds, it becomes a story about healing after trauma, reclaiming identity, building meaningful relationships, and learning how to live a life that's not defined by loss or the past. Okay, so now here's Ailen's recap. Um, Aileen experiences catastrophic loss at a young age and survives by becoming sharp, capable, and emotionally armored. Her grief is never processed and is instead converted into purpose. Over time, her identity becomes organized around avenging the past and restoring what was taken from her, leading her to believe that peace and rest can only come after justice is served. And of course, like you know, we love to bully you guys about books, but really honestly, throwing up glass will is gonna change your life. It's just like hands down, there's no question about it, it's gonna change your life.

SPEAKER_03 12:38

And Ailen if you haven't read it yet, no, seriously. No, but if you haven't read it yet, do not listen to this episode. Because like you need to experience it.

SPEAKER_05 12:50

Yeah, at least read like the first book.

SPEAKER_03 12:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:54

So yeah. But Ailen's jo I'm not even gonna begin to do justice for Ailen's journey for closure in this episode. Like it is a so like eight book long situation, and there's so much that you guys need to learn about Ailen.

SPEAKER_03 13:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 13:15

From beginning of her life to where she is now.

SPEAKER_03 13:18

Yeah, she has so many names.

SPEAKER_05 13:20

Yeah, she did. She did, but we're not gonna spoil anything.

SPEAKER_03 13:24

Yeah, not today. Maybe not today.

SPEAKER_05 13:27

Well, we might as we keep talking.

SPEAKER_03 13:29

We might, but like I already told you.

SPEAKER_05 13:31

I warned you, so yeah, exactly. And you should have read the book by now. Okay. Whatever. Period. All right, presenting problem behaviors. So Aileen cannot exist without a mission, and she never told anyone. Mm-mm. No, but you found out. You found out on the spot, and people like trusted her for some reason. Like, they were just like, Okay, Aileen, we're gonna do what you're saying. We I'm sure there's a method to the madness. Okay, struggles with rest and stillness. Oh my god, measuring healing by what she has fixed, converts grief into productivity, feels joy and softness are undeserved, hyper-independent, and avoids emotional processing. Core themes: trauma-driven identity, vengeance mistaken for healing, productivity as coping, belief that peace must be earned. So, like her core belief is like, I can't move forward until this is made right. And she had a lot of rights to make from wrong.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:37

Um, the treatment goals for her and intervention separate identity from vengeance, process grief without needing resolution, increase tolerance for rest and stillness, build a future-oriented self because she uh completely has lost herself. Um practice joy and softness without guilt. Um, what progress would look like slows down without guilt, stops measuring healing by fixing, makes choices based on who she wants to be, accepts support. Huge for her, an identity separate from trauma. So the outcome, Ailen does not find closure by repairing the past. She finds closure when she gives herself permission to build a future the past no longer controls, and she had to sacrifice something huge. Yeah, I'm whispering it. Sometimes closure isn't getting justice for what was taken, it's deciding your life will no longer be organized around the loss. And that's Ailen, Vanessa, who's on your couch today, and I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_03 15:49

Oh my god. Ailen, hello. Ailen.

SPEAKER_05 15:53

Well, I know we'll get to Ailen when we do treatment team meeting. We have a lot to talk about about her, but don't worry, guys. It's coming. Both of these ladies go.

SPEAKER_03 16:02

So today on my couch is Bryce Quinlan. It's the same author as Throne of Glass. This is Crescent City. Crescent City is set in a modern urban fantasy world where humans and magical beings, angels, shifters, fey, demons all coexist in a city ruled by powerful hierarchies. It's glamorous, it's political, it's dangerous. At the center of the story is a brutal murder that shakes the entire city.

SPEAKER_05 16:31

Oh my god. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 16:32

Bryce Quinlan's best friend Danica and her entire pack are slaughtered in what appears to be a demonic attack. Oh, you're doing spoilers. The crime is horrific, public and unresolved. The city moves on, but Bryce doesn't. Okay, so what makes this story compelling isn't just the investigation, it's the emotional fallout. Bryce was once carefree, social, deeply embedded in her chosen family. After the murders, she withdraws. She's still witty, still sharp, but she becomes guarded, isolated, frozen at the moment everything's shattered. When new evidence resurfaces and she's pulled into the investigation, it looks like a second chance at justice. But psychologically, it's a second chance at meaning. Because for Bryce, solving the mystery isn't just about catching a killer. It's about trying to make sense of a loss that felt that feels senseless. So Bryce herself, she's um half human, half a, which already places her slightly between two worlds. She doesn't fully belong in the magical hierarchies, but she's not entirely outside from them either. She works at an antiquities gallery, gallery surrounded by like magical artifacts. It's so cool to think about. Right? Like, and then when you were reading it, didn't you imagine like the books that could those magical books that could talk and talk and move and I just love that. But it's like set in like this place that reminds me of it. Right.

SPEAKER_05 18:03

It's like urban mind just with magic around. It's so cool. It's such an amazing world, and there's so many levels, guys. Yeah. Wolf. Read this too. Hello, hurry up. Crescent City, Sarah J Mask.

SPEAKER_03 18:17

Exactly. But yeah, so she's more known for her nightlife, though. Like people know her party girl. Math root. Yeah, she was just deeply like attached to her friends. Yeah. Her best friend. And it's not a spoiler that Danica dies because she dies in like the first page or like the first chapter.

SPEAKER_05 18:36

It's like the first few chapters in it.

SPEAKER_03 18:38

Like first few?

SPEAKER_05 18:40

Yeah, but I remember reading it. It wasn't the first few pages. It was like chapter 28. Sorry, I have already told them not to listen. Okay, that's fine. No, it doesn't matter. Whatever. But um they should have also read it already. Hello.

SPEAKER_03 18:57

Yeah, by the time you get to our podcast, it's because you've read everything already. And we warned you guys.

SPEAKER_05 19:03

Yeah, we warned you guys. But yeah, that actually was the turning point for me. I mean, the book was great from the beginning, but like when that happened, it just slapped us out of nowhere so early in the book. And you're like, wait, so like what now? And boy, what now?

SPEAKER_03 19:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:22

Go find out.

SPEAKER_03 19:24

Yeah. So whatever, right? So Bryce was just this cool girl. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:28

She love her. She literally reminded me of you. Like just with her pink and just freckles. Her pink, her freckles, her body, like everything.

SPEAKER_03 19:39

Oh, I love her. Yeah. So, like, after the murders, because well, most of all of you know this already, but after the murders, um, her whole identity kind of fractures. She doesn't collapse publicly, she doesn't like become visibly fragile. Instead, she becomes contained. She keeps going to work, she keeps making jokes, and she keeps like wearing the right thing, she's playing her part. You know, but internally she's carrying survivor skill, rage, shame about what she didn't know, and this persistent belief that if she had understood more, she could have prevented it. She's haunted not just by the violence of the loss, but by the secrets she discovers Danica kept from her. And that's what makes Bryce like good for this conversation because her quest for closure isn't only about solving a murder. It's about trying to repair the rupture and trust, trying to prove she was a good friend, trying to justify why she's still here and Danica isn't. And that's a very human kind of closure to Chase.

SPEAKER_05 20:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:43

You know, because she really struggled with that.

SPEAKER_05 20:46

Yeah, it's hard when the person isn't here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like on earth anymore, or alive, I guess I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_03 20:55

And that was her best friend.

SPEAKER_05 20:56

It's not just like a person.

SPEAKER_03 20:58

All right, treatment team meeting.

SPEAKER_05 21:01

Clipboards out.

SPEAKER_03 21:02

All right. If they walked into our office.

SPEAKER_05 21:06

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 21:08

I would love it. I would be like, you're my new best friend.

SPEAKER_05 21:13

If Ailen walked into my office. Yeah, seriously, but if Aileen walked into my office, I would be so humbled and want to like bow down to her and be like, Milady, like, you know. It's my queen. But yeah, I would look like Mia did. I would be, yeah, exactly. Mia. You heard the you heard the word Aileen. Um, yeah, I would just be like in shock at first if she walked in.

SPEAKER_03 21:41

Mia, not Mia. Um, Aileen met Nahemia. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:46

Well, yeah, Mia and Fenry. Oh, okay, I got you, got you. Okay. That happens in this book, yeah. In the first book. Wow, okay. So Vanessa's dogs are named. After characters in Throne of Glass. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:02

So like Mia is the Hemia, the princess of Ilway. Yeah. And Femris is Moonbeam.

SPEAKER_05 22:11

Who is a very important character. Yeah. So yeah. And then I'm eventually gonna get a cat and name it Orion Hunt Athlar after the Umbra Mortis. But Mia is the real Umbra Mortis.

SPEAKER_03 22:24

Even though a cat recently chose you and you let it go. It didn't, it's some it was somebody else's cat.

SPEAKER_05 22:31

I can't just be stealing neighborhood cats.

SPEAKER_03 22:33

That was no one's cat. Why would it be all the way at your apartment?

SPEAKER_05 22:37

Because cats roam around. People let their cats outside. I know. What's crazy is I saw another black cat like in the yard across and it just stopped and looked at me. But like I can't take you.

SPEAKER_03 22:48

The cats in your neighborhood. They're like, nah, she's not gonna take us. Just keep them moving. Don't waste your time on those stuff.

SPEAKER_04 22:55

But I want a baby one.

SPEAKER_03 22:57

No, you're too picky.

SPEAKER_04 22:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:00

Alright, so if um sorry. Who am I doing again?

SPEAKER_05 23:04

You're doing Bryce. Bryce. Can you get it together?

SPEAKER_03 23:09

I almost called her Ailen.

SPEAKER_05 23:10

Okay, I get it.

SPEAKER_03 23:12

So Bryce wouldn't present as someone fallen apart. She'd be composed. Like I think she'd still be sarcastic, probably charming. She reads as high functioning, like someone who appears regulated, capable, and in control. But that presentation would be misleading for sure.

SPEAKER_05 23:29

I that's exactly how Ayland would walk into. Like she would be talkative, wanting to engage, but like underneath she would be so emotionally overwhelmed, but she wouldn't like show it.

SPEAKER_02 23:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:42

Yeah. So those are the first like clinical impressions. Um, okay, what she'd say the problem is versus what you know it is. Go.

SPEAKER_03 23:52

Okay, so Bryce would tell me the problem is lack of information. That once she figures out what really happened, she'll finally be able to move on. But what she says the problem is and what I know the problem is are two different things. She believes the issue is clarity, but the real issue is unresolved grief. Yeah, she's just struggling. Like her whole pack, you know, died and she's alive, and her best friend had all these secrets.

SPEAKER_05 24:21

Right.

SPEAKER_03 24:22

And now she's trying to figure it out. But what happens when you get to the end of it? Like well, we know.

SPEAKER_05 24:28

Well we yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:33

Not anything you'll ever imagine. So again, read it. Yeah. Yeah, that's yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:40

But I mean sometimes it doesn't even matter what you think the real issue is because when you get in therapy, like and it starts to come out, it's like it's gonna you're gonna heal. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 24:53

Yeah. So for me, I feel like um she would just talk about having a lot of responsibility. I don't have enough hours in the day to do what I need to do. I'm a failure, like she would be really hard on herself. Yeah. But the actual issue is to me, in my opinion, that she's trying to fix everything and save the world, and like she can't, it's not humanly possible for her.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:18

Um, so yeah, I definitely think she would be hard on herself. I agree with that, but also a little like not so hard on herself, like tooting her horn a little bit, you know, because she's alien.

SPEAKER_03 25:32

But I feel like she would do that like in her real life, you know. Yeah, but then when she comes to therapy, that's when she's exactly getting it.

SPEAKER_05 25:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:42

She's she's good for therapy.

SPEAKER_05 25:44

She is. I would love to do her therapy with her. Yeah, yeah. All right, what you'd actually work on first time.

SPEAKER_03 25:54

So let's see. My first priority would be stabilization. I'd explore how her identity shifted after Danica's death. The survivor skill she's carrying, and the belief that if she stops chasing answers, she's betraying her best friend. Like, but in that sense, like I also probably wouldn't go directly into like challenging the investigation because taking that away from her too early would feel destabilizing, you know. But like I would understand how she feels, like, if she stops looking for answers.

SPEAKER_05 26:28

Yeah. Can we just talk a minute about like how Hunt came into this and how like that relationship uh with all of this going on, this quest for closure?

SPEAKER_03 26:41

Yeah, it's like just oh my god.

SPEAKER_05 26:44

Well, she meant a Hunt that night. Yeah, like we said, which we talked about.

SPEAKER_03 26:48

Yeah, we talked about it in fictional men, but it's just beautiful that she did go on this quest for closure, and in that quest she found like love.

SPEAKER_05 27:01

Yeah, and he was with her, and he was so patient. Yeah, she gave him a hard time.

SPEAKER_03 27:07

Yeah, and she also wasn't like I don't think she was very open with what she was doing either.

SPEAKER_05 27:14

So um, yeah, so that hunt played a huge part of this quest too. Yeah, uh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:23

I think she would have been more reckless if she didn't have him.

SPEAKER_05 27:27

Yeah, he reined her in too, but yeah, but and then he was going through his own quest for closure stuff. So like it was just a whole quest for closure. Yeah. Um, I'm trying to think. Well, I mean, when Ailen met Rowan for the first time, like it was the same thing. Like she was just sitting on a roof and rift hold and like and then he punches her in the face. He literally punches her in the face, he bites her, like all types of things. Like they hated each other in the beginning, but then uh they just became one of the best couples ever in book history.

SPEAKER_03 28:06

Yeah, I love them.

SPEAKER_05 28:07

So yeah, and Rowan also was dealing with his own stuff too, so it's like everyone has stuff, everyone has stuff, and that's the real life thing. That's the real life thing. We all got something. Yeah, okay. So what I would work on first, sorry. Um, I would do like a combination of like guilt and responsibility and like letting her sit with that, and then people pleasing control avoidance, and I would leave trauma for last because she has a lot of trauma.

SPEAKER_03 28:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:40

A lot.

SPEAKER_03 28:41

A lot of trauma.

SPEAKER_05 28:43

A lot of trauma.

SPEAKER_03 28:43

Oh my god, like I am I'm not gonna do it because we're like doing this, yeah, and I don't want to ruin every single part, but like again, it you gotta you can't be on this sort of thing if you haven't read these books.

SPEAKER_05 28:57

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:58

It's not worth it because then we're gonna spoil it.

SPEAKER_05 29:00

Right.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

And I hate when people are like, oh, it's fine, I'm gonna read all of it anyway, but it's not the same. Like, I don't want to spoil it for you.

SPEAKER_05 29:06

We're not spoiling it.

SPEAKER_03 29:07

And we're not trying to spoil it for fun. We're just we want a safe space for people who've read the book and want to talk about all the twists and turns and shit that happens, not just, oh guys, read the book, you know. Like, seriously, this is this is a safe space for us to be able to speak about it and for you to finally have someone to talk about, you know, like even sometimes it's hard to convince your friends to read the same book. So you can't talk to them about it. Yeah. So like talk to us about it. So we're gonna fucking spoil shit.

SPEAKER_05 29:37

Right. We want and there's so much like if you are in a place in your life and which is like every day at any point in time, where you just need to be like uplifted, you just need to be to relate, to uh to be to feel like you're understood, like just all the things, to feel happiness, to feel grief, to feel sadness, to deal with trauma. Like this book has it all relationships, like yeah, the series.

SPEAKER_03 30:07

This is great.

SPEAKER_05 30:08

The series, yes, just has it all. And again, Sarah J went into all of that, and how she came up with these characters, and how parts of her life inspired these characters too, and it was like such validation for it.

SPEAKER_03 30:23

So it's like you already love it, and then you think about like how it relates to you and how whatever, and then you hear Sarah J say how like this really uh it just feels like now you're connected to her. Like this you had little connection right there. Yeah, because sometimes I imagine, like some authors, like they might just get these inspirations, write these books, and they're not necessarily connected to it. So and there's nothing wrong with that, right? Like you just use your imagination, do your do your art, whatever, your work, yeah, your craft, right? But when someone actually connects to it, it just makes it feel so good. Like this, I'm having this reaction, and it was supposed to be like this. Yeah, beautiful. It was full circle, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:12

We love that S jam. Yeah, um, yeah, okay, now countertransference.

SPEAKER_03 31:18

Okay, so definitely with Bryce, I noticed the pull to help her solve it. Um, because her pain is organized, it feels productive, and that can quietly pull a clinician into colluding with avoidance. So I need to stay grounded in process, not outcome. Yeah, because I I'm not saying like I'd jump on her bandwagon and be like, yeah, let's go solve this case. But I think I could like I wouldn't, but I could see myself easily being in a position where I feel like I could be like, Okay, well, let's try to figure out how your best friend like maybe hid this from you, or do you think there was some place to look for the next clue because she's going all the way down these rabbit holes?

SPEAKER_05 32:08

So I agree with you. It would be hard to know. Right, because this is what's bringing her to you, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:17

But we can't like take it too far, right?

SPEAKER_05 32:20

We can't do a whole problem-solving investigation.

SPEAKER_03 32:23

You should know where the horn is. But for those of you that are too stubborn to not leave, you know, I'll save it.

SPEAKER_05 32:32

Just in case.

SPEAKER_03 32:34

But the horn, the horn, the horn, the horn, the horn. The horn.

SPEAKER_05 32:39

Looking for that horn was something. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:42

Alright, so how would you feel? Like any counter transition. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05 32:45

I mean, first of all, yeah, I would be so intimidated, and I'd be like, oh my god, like I have to do therapy with Ailen, Galasinius, Ash River, Whithorn, like this is a lot. I I would be intimidated for sure. Because it's it's Ailen, you know? And I'm like, oh my god, like she's coming to me. Like, but then I would also be thinking, like, where would I even start? Because she's like so much, and I would just I don't know, I would be overwhelming, but then like I'd be looking forward to just where it would go. Yeah. And then I'd be like, Is Rowan outside? Did he drop you off? Who came up? Who's with you?

SPEAKER_03 33:24

I'm gonna be like, I'm sorry, we have to do couples counseling, it's a big, big part of your growth. Get Hunt in here now.

SPEAKER_05 33:32

Yeah, I'd be like, actually, I need to see Rowan separately because I need to hear his experience with yeah, and then I'll see you two together. Yeah, yeah, perfect. Oh my god. Oh Rowan. Okay, all right. Um, interventions we would use in real life. Okay. I would kind of let her vent, and maybe that's like wrong of me, but I would kind of let her vent for a while because she has a lot to get off of her chest, and then I would kind of just let her break it down. Like, where do you want to start first? Um, so you know, so just a lot of emotional literacy probably, boundaries she would need to learn because like you gotta say no sometimes. Um, trauma I would leave for last. Um, so like that's kind of where I would go, but it would be so layered and so much that I would just kind of let her pick where she wants to start.

SPEAKER_03 34:26

Right. She believes that solving it will settle the pain, but grief doesn't settle because we gather more information. It settles when we allow ourselves to grieve without turning that grief into a mission. So we would have to start there for her, honestly. I wouldn't grief, yeah. Yeah, I couldn't let her keep going without addressing that first. Like I agree, this is something very traumatic that happened. And you're like, I could even feel like she was still in shock for so long.

SPEAKER_05 34:58

Yeah, she was in denial, shock, all of that, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:02

And then meeting this guy that becomes your mate, right? Like meeting them in during that time when everything is still kind of fuzzy, right? It's still blur. It's like, can I even trust myself? Can I trust that you know, when something traumatic happens, most of the time our brain will cut it out. Um, so we don't know. So just imagine you're like, oh, this relationship might be too good to be true. Yeah because this happened in a place where I can't, it's not a sharp memory. Right. For me to remember those first couple days. Like, did you disrespect me? Like, you know, I don't know how we got here from that. But you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 35:40

No, no, no, I got you, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:42

So she really has to trust herself before we can start working on something. Because if she doesn't trust that she's even capable of making any change, then what do we do for her to continue?

SPEAKER_05 35:57

Yeah. No, I think you're right. Like starting with the trauma and the grief has to be the first thing that you do with her.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 36:05

100% agree with that. Yeah. Alright, so the hard truth you'd eventually say, Well, we love our hard truth, so what do we got?

SPEAKER_03 36:15

Alright. For Bryce, the hard truth would sound like closure isn't clarity, it's permission. Permission to move forward even when you don't have every answer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 36:29

I like that.

SPEAKER_03 36:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 36:32

Yeah. Um, what I would say to Aileen is you don't know who you are without a mission. You've confused being strong with never being allowed to rest.

SPEAKER_02 36:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 36:45

I don't know that Aileen knows who she is without a mission. Because she's been I mean, first you're an assassin. A mission. Like just constant. Always something.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

Always something.

SPEAKER_05 36:58

Always something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:03

Ugh. I'm just like thinking through. Like people can't see my face, but I'm just like going through all of Ailen's stuff in my mind. Like it's just a lot. It's so good. Okay. How do we bring it back to real life now? Okay.

SPEAKER_03 37:19

Not from mystery to answers, but from control to acceptance. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:27

Yeah. I think that's like the acceptance part is a huge, huge part of closure. A huge part.

SPEAKER_03 37:35

Yeah. And that's why I love radical acceptance so much.

SPEAKER_05 37:39

Yeah. Um, so mine, bringing it back to life, is peace doesn't come from fixing what happened, it comes from deciding it doesn't get to run your life anymore. So acceptance again.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:52

It's perfect. Ugh. Absolutely. Alright. Well, now it's time for the chaos.

SPEAKER_02 38:00

The chaos.

SPEAKER_05 38:01

The chaos. Alright, guys. So we have a couple of mini segments. The pain and the plot.

SPEAKER_03 38:08

If you're an OG, you remember the pain and the plot. Now here it is.

SPEAKER_05 38:12

Here it is. We did it. Okay. Alright, so Ailen. Obviously, we're talking about Ailen. So let's talk about Ailen. Um, so the moment I'm gonna be referring to is when she's on the beach in Empire Storms and tells Rowan to go to Terracen without her, already knowing she's about to face what's coming alone. So basically, guys, we're gonna present you with a situation and then we're going to give alternatives. Like, what if she chose this? Like, what would the outcome, the plot be? And like, is the pain worth it? Yeah. Just so you know what's happening here. Okay, so the pain is again for Aileen, self-sacrifice as an instinct. I'm the one who has to take the hit, that mentality she has, and deciding for others to protect them from the outcome. So the shift would be she tells Rowan the full truth. She lets him choose to stay, and they face what's coming together instead of separating, which would have been so beautiful. But also, in terms of the plot, that goodbye never happens. Um, the entire maze situation wouldn't happen. The trajectory of war and who carries what changes completely. So Aileen's like really out here, like talking about she's really decided everyone else gets the choice except the people who love her the most. And yeah, was her pain worth it? I think so.

SPEAKER_03 39:41

Yeah. It was because all that we have to do.

SPEAKER_05 39:49

I mean, like, imagine she her and Rowan did it together.

SPEAKER_03 39:55

Like, what yeah, it would have changed everything. Like, just think of everything that happened after that. Right, right like it's like the butterfly effect, you know, like one thing changes, so mm-mm.

SPEAKER_05 40:08

Right. But then also what they have all came together and fought their enemy. Well, which they kind of did anyway, so never mind.

SPEAKER_03 40:16

Yeah, but what they have, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_05 40:21

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, that's Ailen. What you got?

SPEAKER_03 40:27

All right, so my moment with Bryce is when Cormac offers to help the rebellion, and Bryce immediately keeps him at arm's length instead of truly hearing him out. Like, if she had just heard him out, maybe like you know, maybe she wouldn't have believed him at first because she just had so much distrust. But I feel like they would have been able to make alliances first. So the pain for her is distrust rooted in past loss, like Danica, she already lost her friend, you know, and then fear of being blindsided again.

SPEAKER_05 41:01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:02

She really thought she knew what was going on around her. So if I don't let you in, you can't betray me.

SPEAKER_05 41:09

Right.

SPEAKER_03 41:09

Yeah. So control through emotional distance, and that's how she kept people away from her. So the shift, she actually listens to Cormac. If she had done this, she builds trust earlier instead of resisting it and gains access to critical information and alliance sooner. Like Cormac, even like when he died, yeah, I was just like, spoiler. Like, these are professional readers, okay? They got this. Yeah, they knew about it before we did. We're late.

SPEAKER_02 41:43

No, absolutely, you're right.

SPEAKER_03 41:45

Like, you know, like when he died and when he sacrificed himself or whatever, I was just like, This can't be real. I still in my heart felt like he was gonna come back, like you know, there was an opportunity.

SPEAKER_05 41:59

Yeah, it's like no, he's not dead.

SPEAKER_03 42:01

Exactly. But Bryce had me like not trusting him, and like you know, but Bryce, here you have us not trusting him.

SPEAKER_05 42:08

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 42:08

You don't trust, but yeah, so with her plot, earlier alignment with rebellion forces, potentially fewer blind sides later on, but we lose Bryce's slow journey towards trust and vulnerability, like she learns that, and she needs that in order to like even make it work with Hunt, right? Like, she has to learn these lessons. So, you know, Bryce really said, I don't trust you to someone actively trying to help. Like, girl, how many red flags are actually just your trauma talking?

SPEAKER_05 42:40

Yeah, oh for real, you know, honestly, yeah. Um, I was just thinking as you were talking, like, what if she had married Cormac? And I just like so many things flash through my mind just now.

SPEAKER_03 42:51

Oh my god, if she had married Cormac, first of all, absolutely not, but I think they would have like created that alliance, you know, and yeah, she would have still been with Hunt somehow, right?

SPEAKER_05 43:04

Or maybe like we would have found out later on if she married Cormac, that like this isn't actually the person for you, you have a mate out there, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:12

And he understands.

SPEAKER_05 43:15

Oh, I I love it, all right, but also like Hunt would be single in all yours, so that's yeah, that's a plus.

SPEAKER_03 43:25

All right, and that was the pain in the plot.

SPEAKER_05 43:28

That's that. All right, now for some fun, all right.

SPEAKER_03 43:33

Some more fun. Okay, so we're gonna be talking about Ailen and Bryce and how they would get through a situation. Like, we're gonna call this the closure lightning round, like how they would react, how they would get closure, how they would handle the situation. Okay, yeah, but lightning round. So how would how would they handle a broken promise?

SPEAKER_05 43:54

Well, Aylen is gonna absolutely wanna hurt somebody, yeah, emotionally, mentally, physically. All of it.

SPEAKER_03 44:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:01

But then, like, she would kind of when she gets that out her system, she would be able to listen at some point.

SPEAKER_03 44:10

Yeah. Yeah. She is a queen. Um, Bryce would probably crack a joke first and then have a real talk with someone.

SPEAKER_05 44:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:21

Yeah. What about an old friend returns?

SPEAKER_05 44:26

Oh, Aileen's gonna test their loyalty with a sword.

SPEAKER_03 44:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:32

That's Aileen. Um, Bryce, she'd invite them for fries at the White Raven.

SPEAKER_05 44:39

Yeah, she's so welcoming. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:43

Alright, a secret never revealed. How would they handle that?

SPEAKER_05 44:48

Um, Aileen would guard it with fire for sure.

SPEAKER_03 44:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:52

Yeah. After all, she's the queen of I'm not telling anybody else.

SPEAKER_03 44:56

Exactly. Um, Bryce would she'd probably spill it out after some snarky eye roll or something. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:06

Like being petty.

SPEAKER_03 45:08

Yeah. Oh my god. Okay. Yeah. A battle won at a cost.

SPEAKER_05 45:14

Um, Aileen would definitely honor the fallen for sure with a crown.

SPEAKER_03 45:19

Um, Bryce, she will pour a drink in their name and probably like blast some music.

SPEAKER_05 45:26

Yeah, that sounds about right. Wow, these two women are so different, but they're such badasses. Yeah. You know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:34

Okay. All right. How would they get closure? A love left behind.

SPEAKER_05 45:41

Um, Aileen would burn a letter and move forward.

SPEAKER_03 45:46

Yeah. Um, Bryce would like dance it out and leave it on the dance floor. She's just she's just getting it out.

SPEAKER_05 45:53

Bryce at the white rabbit.

SPEAKER_03 45:55

Oh my god. The white raven. The white raven. That's Alice in Wonderland.

SPEAKER_05 46:04

Well, I think I'm in Wonderland right now. Yeah.

unknown 46:07

All right.

SPEAKER_03 46:07

All right. Um, a betrayal uncovered.

SPEAKER_05 46:11

Oh no.

SPEAKER_03 46:12

How's Ailen getting her closure?

SPEAKER_05 46:14

Aileen is getting revenge with a sharp whist because, and we get to see this actually in the book. So she's getting her revenge, she's plotting it, she's getting it, all of it.

SPEAKER_03 46:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:30

Yeah. Bryce, she'd give a sharp insult and then decide if it's even worth it. Yeah.

unknown 46:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:38

Yeah. Okay. How did they get closure on a dream deferred?

SPEAKER_05 46:45

She'd swear an oath to try again. She's not giving up.

SPEAKER_03 46:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:50

Yeah. There's no such thing as her giving up.

SPEAKER_03 46:53

Yeah. Bryce would just kind of come up with a new plan. That's true.

SPEAKER_05 46:58

So both of neither one of them are giving it up.

SPEAKER_03 47:00

Nah.

unknown 47:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:02

Alright. A family thrift healed.

SPEAKER_05 47:06

Oh, she would like forge a bond in battle. Yeah. She gotta make sure it's real.

SPEAKER_03 47:12

Yeah. Um, Bryce would like throw a loud dinner party and hash it out. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 47:18

Bryce is like a therapist.

SPEAKER_03 47:19

She is kind of in a weird way.

SPEAKER_05 47:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:22

A hard truth faced.

SPEAKER_05 47:25

Um, Aileen, per usual, would be staring it down with fire in her eyes. Oh, yeah. She's always got those fired, that fire in her eyes.

SPEAKER_03 47:34

Yeah. Bryce would um take a deep breath and then laugh and face it head on.

unknown 47:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:42

Yeah. Alright. An unexpected second chance.

SPEAKER_05 47:48

Um, Aileen would seize it. You'd seize it for sure. She would want that second chance.

SPEAKER_03 47:57

Bryce would like wink and flip her hair and say, let's do this. Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 48:03

Wow, it's so crazy. I can like picture Bryce and everything you're saying. I can picture her doing it. Yeah. It's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 48:11

Ugh, love it.

SPEAKER_05 48:14

Yes. Alright. Time for our second mini segment, Therapist Couch Confidential. All right. Alright, go ahead and explain what's going on here.

SPEAKER_03 48:23

We're picking pivotal scenes where Ailen or Bryce made a huge choice, like a bold sacrifice or a risky alliance. And we're both gonna kind of like diagnose their motives on the spot. Like, was it courage or avoidance, healthy boundary or emotional chaos? Okay.

SPEAKER_05 48:42

Okay, let's all right.

SPEAKER_03 48:43

So let's go.

SPEAKER_05 48:45

Aileen locking herself in May's iron coffin. Uh ultimate self-sacrifice. Yeah. For sure. Definitely. Yeah. Which is like her all the time. And part of her issue, as we previously earlier we discussed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:03

Yeah.

unknown 49:04

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 49:05

Okay. Bryce making the drop to save the city. I think when she made the drop, she was really like I I don't know. She could have been trying to outrun her grief, but she could have just like really been stepping fully into her power.

SPEAKER_02 49:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:26

I think it was a little bit of both. And she was just like, either way I go, like, I have to do something.

SPEAKER_05 49:32

So right. Yeah. And like courage, you know, a little emotional chaos there. And self-sacrifice. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 49:41

Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Um, Aileen rallying her allies before the final battle. I mean, I love the way she did it too, because it was so like sneaky and nobody knew she was really doing it. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I love that she really went and put in effort to like rally everybody together to fight against the one enemy.

SPEAKER_03 50:07

Yeah, and it felt so good to read it because like as you're reading it, you're like, Yes, I remember the red desert. Yes, I remember Rolf. Yes, I remember this fucking amazing moment. Yeah, it just felt so good. Like people were coming because she had a kindness, you know, or like whatever she helped them. Oh, yeah. I just can't. It's beautiful.

SPEAKER_05 50:30

Like in Assassin's Blade as you're reading the stories, and then like you for not, you like those people just kind of go in the back somewhere because there's other people to focus on. But like you said, when they start coming back, you're like, oh, he's helping her because she did this. Oh my god, I forgot. Like, yeah, it's a whole guys, it's a whole experience. Yeah. Okay, stop.

SPEAKER_03 50:51

Okay. Go ahead. All right, Bryce calling on the Prince of the Pit. Oh, yeah. That was she had a moment, I feel like an Ailen moment where she just kind of did something, and Bryce is kind of like that too. You know, she'll just do something, and then people just gotta catch up.

SPEAKER_02 51:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:14

But I don't know when she called the Prince of the Pit, like I was nervous, so but I don't think she did it out of anything other than just trying to help.

SPEAKER_05 51:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:26

So I agree. Yeah, I agree. She didn't know where it was gonna take her, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 51:32

Well, hopefully, you guys learned a little bit about yourselves. Yeah, and if you're looking for closure, sometimes you're not gonna get it, and you have to create it for yourself. Yeah, and that's okay. It's actually the best way, probably.

SPEAKER_03 51:47

Yeah. That is the best way.

SPEAKER_05 51:50

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:52

Alright, well, like always, we like to give a little preview teaser of our next episode, and this is gonna be a good one. So it's gonna be hard to love when empathy gets complicated. You know those characters that make you feel instant frustration?

SPEAKER_03 52:09

The ones that trigger every therapist instinct in you.

SPEAKER_05 52:13

Where you're thinking, wow, this is gonna be a long session.

SPEAKER_03 52:16

The ones who make compassion harder than it should be.

SPEAKER_05 52:20

Next session hard to love when empathy gets complicated. Alright. Yep. Yeah, also like and this inspired me in real life, where like I was just having a lot of counter transference with someone, and I was like, oh, this is really hard to do this every week. And like that's what inspired this. So I'm still doing it, but it's hard. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 52:51

Alright, well, stay tuned. Come back, and hopefully, your own book three of Stone of Glass. Stone of Throne of Glass. Yes, or Gods and Monsters, or whatever, Crescent. Read something. Yeah. Hope you guys are reading too.

SPEAKER_03 53:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 53:10

All right. That's it for this session. See you next week.

SPEAKER_03 53:14

We bye.

SPEAKER_05 53:16

We bye.

SPEAKER_03 53:18

We bye now. Kevin. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 53:23

That's it for this session. See you next week. Bye. Bye.

SPEAKER_03 53:29

We want you to be a part of this world with us. Send us your book recommendations, character obsessions, or topics you want us to cover.

SPEAKER_05 53:38

You can find us on Instagram and TikTok at once upon a session pod.

SPEAKER_03 53:42

Or email us at info.onceupona Session. It's not that. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 53:51

It's written right there. I don't understand why you can't just read.

SPEAKER_03 53:56

Or email us at info at onceupona sessionpod.com if you want to share those suggestions or just scream about a plot twist with us. So are we charging for this session?

SPEAKER_05 54:08

Emotionally, always. See you next session.

SPEAKER_03 54:12

Same couch, different chaos.

SPEAKER_05 54:15

Yeah. Yes. It's gonna be great chaos. All right, come back. Now y'all heard. Come back. All right, but we're gonna be able to do that.