Once Upon a Session
Once Upon a Session is a podcast where two therapists bring their love for books, storytelling, and emotional insight together. Each session explores a theme — attachment, grief, love, trauma, healing — through the lens of fictional characters and real-life growth. It’s cozy, funny, heartfelt, and deeply human.
Once Upon a Session
Session 8: Plot Twists & Emotional Whiplash
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Why do plot twists hit so hard—and why do we kind of love them?
In this episode of Once Upon a Session, we break down the psychology behind emotional whiplash—those shocking, unpredictable moments in books and relationships that leave you reeling.
From The Housemaid to The Perfect Marriage, we explore how twists create emotional intensity, why unpredictability can feel addictive, and what it says about how we connect, attach, and stay invested.
Disclaimer: We’re licensed therapists, but not your therapists. This podcast is for reflection and conversation, not a substitute for therapy.
✨ Follow Once Upon a Session for new episodes exploring stories, psychology, and healing.
Okay, wait. Have you ever experienced something where you were like, I did not see that coming, but I probably should have.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and that's the part that makes it worse.
SPEAKER_00Because it's not just surprising, it's like your brain's trying to catch up to something your body already knew. And now you're replaying everything like, wait, that was a sign, that was a sign. And I ignored all of it. Exactly. And now I feel played. Emotionally, spiritually, by real life. And also by books. This is once upon a session where two therapists turn their TBR pile into treatment plans. And every story becomes a session. I'm Vanessa and I'm Nerisa. And we've both been personally victimized by plot twists. Okay, just a quick note before we dive in. We're both licensed therapists, but we're not your therapists. Everything we share here is for conversation, reflection, and maybe a little inspiration. But it's not a substitute for therapy. If you're struggling, please reach out to a mental health professional who can give you the care and support you deserve. Now that Gerald checks in, have a seat on our couch. Okay, welcome back, guys.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god, we're so excited today because we got our first review.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah. And whoever you are, thank you. Yes, thank you so much. You're the reason why. Yeah, exactly. And everything you said in your review is exactly what we wanted to get across. So thank you. Thank you. And if you're new here, welcome. And if you're still here, welcome back. And we love you and we appreciate you. Yeah. All right, what's going on? What's going on, friend? Work sucks. Yeah. The usual. We don't want to work. We just want to do this work. I want so I decided that I'm gonna go full-time private practice. Okay. But the plan was originally to do it in two years, like when I finish my doctorate, so that I can just be Dr. Carter. Private practice. You know? Dr. Carter private practice. Yeah. So, but it's like I just don't want to work, like not even in these two years that are gonna be like happening. So I get it. But whatever. Um, just happy. I have a job. Adulting is adulting. Well, this is our real job, remember? Yeah, if this was our full-time job, I would love it. Yeah, yeah. Soon come. Soon, soon. Soon come. Okay, so what are we reading? We're reading Throne of Glass, the series. However, I am now on Crown of Midnight. So again, I'm reading Assassin's Blade First. She's reading Assassin's Blade next, I think. After Erich. Oh, Arifier. My goodness. You know, like oh, well, maybe I shouldn't say it now, but it's just so good reading it like this. I love it. I love how everything is playing out. I don't take back what I said, like the proper way to read it should be Assassin's Blade first, but I am really enjoying this. This one. I love that you can appreciate it. And yeah, I think like I know you said you want to wait, but like, yeah, to see when you read Assassin's Blade, like how it hits.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, right now in the book, not right now in the book, but like Rowan and you know, they're just so good together. Like, even though right now they hate each other. Yeah. But it's ugh, it's so good. It's always like enemies to lovers. That's why we love it. Yeah. Okay, well, I'm on Crown of Midnight, and I just started, I'm on like chapter four, but like now she's officially like the king's champion. Oh, okay. And she's doing her missions. But you know, Selena's always up the no good. So, yeah, I'm excited. Okay, well, what have you been doing? Like, what's up with you? I haven't been doing much, just working. Um, work's pretty steady right now. Um, I don't really have any new people, but yeah. It's just good, feeling good. I can't wait for you to come to the other side over here, the work from home side. Oh, I can't wait. Yeah. Oh it's gonna be nice. Yeah, yeah. All right. Anything else going on? Nope, that's all I got. Okay. Oh, Kingfisher reading Kingfisher. Oh yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about Kingfisher reading Kingfisher. That's finally. Yeah, that's interesting. Like, yeah. How what's the vibes or the reaction? He's like, he's noticing some of the things from the book, and he's like, I'm not like this, or I'm not an asshole. And he's like, She thinks he's an asshole, and I'm like, no, well, kind of, you know, it's her perspective. And he was like, Yeah, okay. But um, yeah, it's interesting, but it's really nice. It's it's nice that he wanted to read something. Is he like just really enjoying it reading all the time? Like, you know how we read, we read in between. Yeah, he's reading in between sessions, like at work. Oh, so he loves it, he loves it, and he's calling me little Osha. Oh, that's it's just so cute. Yeah, but anyway, you are a little OSHA. I am little buttfly. Alright, that's all that's gone on over there. Alright, that yeah, let's not get too. Alright. Okay, so today we are talking about emotional whiplash and plot twists, but not just in books. Yeah, we're also talking about how it shows up in real life. Because those moments where everything suddenly shifts, they're not just fictional, they happen in relationships and friendships and family dynamics. And sometimes the twist isn't new information, it's finally seeing something clearly. Oh my god. Yeah, we've lived so many plots. An emotional whiplash. So emotionally, what's actually happening when we experience this kind of whiplash? It's a sudden break between what we believed and what's actually true, and our brain really doesn't like that. Not at all, because we build a sense of safety around the stories we tell ourselves. Yeah, we do. Like this person would never do that, or this relationship is stable.
SPEAKER_01And it's not funny, but it is.
SPEAKER_00Um, and when something contradicts that, it creates cognitive dissonance. Ooh, fancy. Which is basically your brain going, both of these things can't be true at the same time. Exactly. So now you're trying to reconcile, was I wrong, or is the situation not what I thought it was? And this is where real life plot twists come in. Like finding out someone lied to you. Ugh. Or realizing someone you trusted isn't who you thought they were. Bro. Mm-hmm. Or even smaller things, like slowly noticing red flags you ignored, suddenly all clicking at once. And what makes it feel like emotional whiplash is how fast that shit happened. Yep.
SPEAKER_01How fast that shit happens is right. Guys, it's so funny.
SPEAKER_00We she meant to say shift, but she said shit. And we're keeping it, so yeah. Yeah, there's no gradual adjustment, it's immediate. So your body reacts before your brain can fully process it. Which is why people say things like, I feel sick or I feel shaky, because it's a nervous system response. Yeah, and a lot of times people will go back and forth replaying everything because they're trying to make the old story make sense. Ugh. But it doesn't fit anymore. And that's where the emotional impact really hits because now you're grieving not just the situation, but the version of reality you believed in. Ugh, this makes me so sick to my stomach because I literally just lived this. Okay. Okay, so now let's bring this back to books. Because this is exactly why plot twists hit so hard. They mirror real psychological experiences. You trust the character, you build a narrative, and then something flips. And suddenly everything has to be reinterpreted. And the best twists don't come out of nowhere, they're built on things we overlooked, justified, or didn't question enough. Which is very real life coded. Because in real life, the signs are often there. Yes, they are people. Yes, they are. We just don't always want to see them. And that's why emotional whiplash and fiction feels so personal. Because it taps into something we've experienced or fear experiencing. Alright, well, let's get into it. Okay, who's sitting on your couch today? Okay, on my couch today is Millie Callaway from The Housemaid. Alright, and I'm bringing Sarah from The Perfect Marriage. Which both are very you thought you knew what was going on books. And then you absolutely did not. Yeah. I love these two books. Me too. Well, I only read one of those. Well, you might want to read this one too. Because I didn't see it coming, but also like I suck at these things exactly. Sorry. Okay, nope. Go ahead. Alright, so like I said this week on my couch is Millie from The Housemaid by Frieda McFadden. It's a psychological thriller trilogy. Well, there's that novella. So three and a half. Yeah, three and a half. Um, oh, and the movie just came out a couple months ago. Yeah, I didn't see it. Yeah, I saw it twice. I just felt like, I don't know. Is it on it? It can be streamed yet, but I would rather just stream it than like actually go. Okay, yeah. But it was it was okay. It was good. Okay. Okay. Maybe I'll check it out. And so more of them are coming out. Like, so apparently the movie was successful. The movie was a success, and they're gonna do like the housemaid is watching or the housemaid secret, whatever. Which kind of one I saw the next ones coming. Okay, and they're working on it. Yep. So if you haven't read this, it's one of those books where you think you understand what's going on, and then you just absolutely don't. And that's true to all of Frida McFadden's books. Like, don't sleep on her. The boyfriend was so good. I never did not see that twist coming. I never I know I never see it coming. I really for you to save me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's great. Loved your Frida. Okay. Did you know she was like a real life neurosurgeon? Yeah, yeah. I love it. I love that. It's oh my god. Yeah, okay. Okay, so the housemaid follows Millie, who takes a job as a live-in housemaid for a seemingly perfect family, but very quickly things start to feel off and not in an obvious way. It's subtle, uncomfortable, like something isn't adding up, but you can't fully explain why. So Millie is someone who's trying to rebuild her life, and because of that, she's coming into this situation already in survival mode. She wants stability, she wants safety, and she's willing to tolerate discomfort to get it. So you see her constantly navigating this tension between what feels off and what feels good enough. And instead of fully trusting her instincts, she's explaining things away, minimizing, adjusting. Because for her, stability isn't something she expects, it's something she feels like she has to hold on to. You think I remember? No, so this is why I'm trying to paint a picture for you. Okay, okay, go. You remember when like she first got into her room there, the attic room, and she was like, Oh, this doesn't have any windows or whatever she was talking about, and then but she was like, It's better than behind, it's better than the back seat of my car. So ignoring the red flag, yeah, pretty much. Her presenting problems probably wouldn't come in clearly labeled, it would look more like confusion, second guessing, feeling unsettled, but not fully understanding why. She might describe the situation more than her internal experience and minimize what's actually happening. But underneath that, it's chronic self-doubt, it's difficulty trusting her own perception, and a pattern of staying in environments that don't feel right because she's learned to override that feeling. So the goals here wouldn't just be to get her out of the situation, it would be helping her trust herself enough to recognize when something isn't right and respond to it. So we're looking at increasing self-trust, improving her ability to recognize unhealthy dynamics, and shifting away from constantly rationalizing things that feel off. We'd start by helping her notice the moments where she overrides her instincts and builds awareness around that, helping her name discomfort without minimizing and start recognizing patterns instead of isolated situations. Because one moment is easy to explain away, but patterns are harder to ignore. Where the work really comes in, I would start with reality testing, like slowing things down and asking what is actually happening here versus what am I telling myself? Then cognitive restructuring, challenging those thoughts like this is fine, or I'm overreacting. Also somatic awareness because her body's reacting before her mind catches up. So that uneasiness, it's that's data. And then pattern recognition, connecting the dots instead of treating everything like a once-off situation, and eventually boundary work, helping her respond to discomfort instead of overriding it. So the outcome isn't that she suddenly becomes hyper-aware or perfect, it's that she starts to trust herself enough that when something feels off, she doesn't need a plot twist to confirm it. And I think that's what makes Millie such a strong example for this episode because her experience isn't just about what's happening around her, it's about what's happening when you don't trust yourself until everything finally clicks.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I really feel like that's just so true because I mean, we all saw the red flags, so but I think with Frida, what she does is she gives us so many examples of what you know, so that we can have our own theories about stuff. Right. And then like everyone's a victim, like everyone, I'm a side. Everyone's a suspect, yeah. You know, so you don't even know what to look for, but that's just to say, like, she's in a situation where all these things can be true, right? But she's keeping herself there, and when she kind of realized how Nina was like putting her in these situations, you know, she's just yeah, I think she was having empathy because she felt like the husband was like doing something, yeah. Yeah, because Nina presented herself as someone who was being controlled, who was in that type of situation. Oh my god. And then, like, you the thing about Frida also is that you're like, okay, so she did this in this one book. So like it's gonna be a good one. But what about the next book? Exactly. So what about the next book? No, I love how Frida is just so good at her. I love it. Oh my god you know, like I've read all except for the inmate. Oh, yeah, I read The Inmate. Whoa, that one was fucking crazy. That one was wild, yeah. Do I remember? Like, I can say that with all of them. I I didn't expect that, but with the boyfriend, did you read the book? The boyfriend was wild. That one was crazy. Like, I just didn't expect that at all. Like, I no, even if I picked it up and read it right now, I would be like, oh shit. Yeah. Again, yeah, okay. Did you spoil what the plot twist was? No, okay. I didn't say I didn't. Okay, I got it. Okay, I love that. All right. All right. So who's oh, we know who's on your couch? Yeah. Tell us about her. So we are gonna be talking about Sarah Morgan from The Perfect Marriage by Geneva Rose. So just a little synopsis on the book. The perfect marriage follows Sarah Morgan, a high-powered defense attorney in Washington, D.C., who appears to have built a successful life, career status, and a seemingly stable marriage to her husband Adam. But behind that polished image is distance, disconnection, and an ongoing affair. Adam feeling neglected and unseen, begins a relationship with another woman, Kelly Summers, seeking emotional and physical validation outside the marriage. When Kelly is found murdered, Adam becomes the prime suspect. In a twist that immediately destabilizes everything, Sarah chooses to defend her husband in court. So, like, your husband's having an affair, the girl gets murdered, and now you're gonna defend him in court. So wild. I'm not gonna give away the twist, but I didn't see it coming, but then again, I never see it coming. But yeah, it was a really good twist. You should say I'm gonna read it. Yeah, when you get to it. I'm actually surprised I haven't read it. Yeah. I don't know what I must have been reading. I I think I just read a brief thing and it was like husband's having an affair, person gets murdered, wife has to defend him in court, and I was like, oh my god, yeah. Like sold. Alright, presenting problem behaviors, um, emotional detachment within the marriage, avoidance of vulnerability through overfocus on career, um, seeking validation outside of the relationship for him, withholding truth, selective disclosure, overconfidence and ability to manage outcomes, navigating relationships through power instead of intimacy. So core themes, emotional whiplash, betrayal and infidelity, perception versus reality, power dynamics and relationships, narrative manipulation, and the illusion of having it together. And it's always the couples that look perfect, that it's like behind the scenes that something's going on. Yeah, they have something to add. Yeah, like I would rather see a public arguing in public than one that pretends like everything's perfect. You'd rather see a who? A couple. What'd I say? That's why you said I'd rather see a public. No, a couple arguing in public. I did say public. Okay, we'll rewind it unless. Okay. Um, treatment goals, interventions, increase emotional awareness and vulnerability, explore avoidance patterns within intimacy, um, process betrayal, and um develop insight into power versus connection and relationships. And what progress would look like, recognizing emotional avoidance patterns, taking accountability for relational dynamics, um tolerate not being in control of outcomes, and build connection rooted in honesty, not power. Growth happens when control is no longer used to protect from vulnerability because the real twist isn't just what happened, it's realizing how much was hidden beneath a version of the story you choose to believe. I really want to give away the ending, but I'm not going to. Yeah, I don't because I haven't read it. Okay, good. Oh, yeah, sorry. That's all right. Alright. Treatment team meeting. Treatment team meeting. Let's do it. Clickboards out. Because these situations need to be unpacked, girl. Let's go. Alright. Alright. If they walked into our office, okay, first clinical impressions. Alright. So for Millie, she wouldn't come in as guarded as Nesta, but she also wouldn't be fully open. She'd be polite, composed, trying to present well, but you'd feel that something is like off. She's like holding a lot in while trying to seem like everything's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like Millie has her own backstory. Yeah. That we didn't have to do that. Right. Yeah, I was trying not to give it away. Yeah. But she has a backstory. Yeah. That's all you need to know. Yeah. Yeah. But like she didn't even know how to say it without giving away too much. Yeah. But she has a troubled past. That's right. Yeah. And that could mean anything. Yeah, but that's why, like, taking a job, even though, like, I could say that's why taking a job like this, it's like she just put up with it, but not really, because it's not a bad job. Like, she's looking at it like, oh, this is a nice house. These people are really nice. Like, I mean, compared to where she's coming from. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I feel like Sarah, well, she's a lawyer, right? So she would walk in like confident and like probably have her strategic brain on. And I'm like, I don't need all that intellectualization. I mean, I need that emotional intelligence, like, which you probably don't have any of, you know? So, oh, strong intellectualization. Leads with logic over emotion. Um, she would be in con like want to be in control, probably having some avoidance. Um with more like a power-based, not vulnerable-based, like relational style. So yeah, she's a lawyer. She's walking in there with her briefcase. I'm seeing like Olivia Pope in my head right now. Like, I don't know why, right?
SPEAKER_01Oh. Yeah. And if you don't know who Oliv Olivia Pope is, logo.
SPEAKER_00No, just kidding, guys. We're just bullying you guys to do everything we like. Okay. Thanks. All right. All right. So what they'd say versus the real issue. So Millie coming into therapy, I feel like she might not even frame it as a problem. She'd probably minimize things like it's not that bad, or I can handle it, or she'd focus on the situation and not necessarily how it's affecting her. But that's not the issue. She's not struggling with the situation itself. She's struggling with trusting her own perception of it. I think specifically what got me was it was the um the time when Nina told her to pick up the daughter from school or dance class or whatever, and she went. And she wasn't there, or like whatever that situation, that specific situation was, and I'm like, but she knew that that's what she told her. Yeah. And it's just the manipulation that she's putting her through. Yeah. There's a lot of manipulation in this too. Yeah. Um, okay, so for Sarah, she would just kind of be like, I'm handling everything, I know what I'm doing. This is under control. But like, meanwhile, she's using control to avoid emotional exposure, rewriting the narrative to maintain power, avoiding accountability with relational dynamics, and mistaking composure for stability. And like oh, it's so hard because I can't give away the plot twist. Sorry, okay. But anyway, yeah, yeah.
unknownSorry.
SPEAKER_00See, and that's why I'm like, I'm not, yeah, I'm not gonna give away this plot twist. But but like if you knew the twist, so guys, if you read this and you knew the twist, then you would know what what I'm referring to. Yeah, what I'd work on first. I wouldn't jump straight into you need to leave this situation, that would create resistance. First priority would be helping her trust her instincts, helping her name what feels off without immediately dismissing it, because awareness has to come before change. So I think going back to when she got her room, when she first realized that the door only locks from the outside, that would have been a major red flag for me. And at that point, maybe I would have slept in my car. You know, it just but again, I didn't have that fear that these people are weird or anything strange is going on. Something bad's gonna happen. Right. Yeah, yeah. And she was feeling like, well, this is better than my current situation. So it makes sense why she did it, but yeah, that would have been one of those things for me where I would have had to just trust my instinct because I don't know these people at all. Right. So yeah, that's what I'd work on first, just for her own safety, especially if she's still in the house. I don't know when this therapy session would necessarily happen. Yeah, but yeah, safety. Yeah, I feel like at what point would Millie come in? Millie would probably come in when she feels like I need to talk to someone about this because stuff's not adding up. Yeah. Like she would start picking up on things but not necessarily think like negatively. She would maybe just want to like process. If she had like a like a case manager or something like that, that she a parole officer, I don't know if she was still on parole or not parole, but you know what I mean. Like if she had to do probation probation, I don't remember if she was. Um, because I read this a while ago, and you know, the movies just yeah for the sex scenes. Um yeah, so if let's just say in real life, if she was checking in with someone like a social worker or whatever, they would probably be asking her questions about like how she felt with this family, like how she feels, whatever. So if she were in some sort of treatment before, like court mandated or not, at least someone might have been like helping her think of these things. Yeah, so true. All right, what would I work on first? Well, emotional awareness, because what are you actually feeling? Like, put all that logic aside, like put your lawyer hat, leave it outside the door, but like your husband's having an affair, and now you have to defend him for murder. Because, like, you do you even care about this woman being dead? No, you probably hate her and you hate him too, but now like you choose to defend him. So, yeah. Um, what are you actually feeling? Vulnerability versus control, um accountability within the relationships, exploring avoidance and intimacy again, um, and identifying narrative distortion. So, yeah, I probably would work on first though, like what are you actually feeling? Um why is she doing this? Like, why is she defending him? Well, you have to read the book because part of the plot has to do with that. Oh, she my guess is that like she's the one who murdered the girl, and like I don't know. I just feel like she's the one who did it, and she's defending him to cover it up, and like he's the one that'll be to blame for it. So that would be my get back if I was her. Okay, well, I would flip it and be like, Yeah, you murdered her. I don't know. Some really good uh red flags you're picking up on. Yeah, yeah. Alright, what's next? Okay, so counter transference. Okay. Okay, what would I feel? I would honestly be like, Why are you doing this? Exactly. Why are you defending this man in court? He's having it, like, why did you choose to do this? In my mind, it would not make sense to me. Because also, isn't that unethical? Like, isn't it like whatever weird? I don't know. Yeah, it doesn't feel like it should be allowed because you can't, even if it's client, patient privilege, whatever that shit's called. Yeah, client, is it client? Patient, client, patient. No, but those are the two of the same thing. Um lawyer, client, lawyer, client, whatever, whatever. You guys keep secrets with each other. Exactly. It's like a privilege, yeah. And then whatever, but like if you already have that, but then if you're married to someone, you have that other thing. Yeah, how do you yeah, and and like so you can't lie for him, like you can't swear against it. I don't know, it doesn't seem like allow right, right. It just doesn't make sense, but also I would be like, this is kind of weird, yeah. I bet someone's screaming at the screaming at their um whatever they're listening to. Saying like patient client privilege, yeah, whatever. Patient client is the same thing, but I can't think of anything else.
SPEAKER_01That's okay.
SPEAKER_00It's like okay, they know what we're talking about.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, if not, look it up, do something.
SPEAKER_00Y'all are just sitting here listening, read a book, look it up. Do all right, just kidding. So with Millie, the pull is different, it's less frustration and more concern. Like, I might feel protective a little bit, like like I want to step in and say, like, this is not okay. Because if she were seeing me while she was in that house, I would be like, Nina is gaslighting you, and do not go out on this date with this guy, like he is married, and you know, be fucking careful because if you suspect that Nina's that crazy, you might not want to be like someone else, exactly. Yeah, just no, absolutely not. Yeah, but I would have to be careful not to move faster than she's ready for, um, because that can recreate the same dynamic where her experience gets overridden. Yeah, so I would I wouldn't want to do that to her, but I don't know, I'd still want to help in a way. Yeah, and it's like when I'm talking about these characters in the book, I've noticed like over the past few weeks that we've been doing this show now. Like, I feel like when it comes to counter-transference, I say like I want to help these characters in the books, but I don't necessarily feel that at work, you know. It's not that I don't want to help, it's just I don't care to be so involved in your personal life outside of what we're working on, the goal, the treatment plan. Right, right. But like with them, possibly because I I know so much about their lives. Yeah, like literally so much because we're reading all of them basically about their lives, yeah. Yeah, but right, in real life, we don't get so I wouldn't be like, oh, I need to make sure their doors don't lock from the outside. Like, yeah, yeah, you know, unless they're psychotic or something. Yeah, this is my god, yeah. All right, interventions we would use. Um, I think emotional emotion-focused work, honestly. That's kind of it. Sorry, I have a list of things, but that's yeah, where I would start and explore and control as a defense. Literally. Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay, what about you?
SPEAKER_00I think for Millie, um really, and I've been speaking about this like the whole time because I feel like it's really important for her, is the the cognitive restructuring, like just challenging those thoughts that this is fine and I'm overreacting. Because I think too, one thing with Millie is that as we see it in the series, like she knows what she's capable of. So what part of her not necessarily ignoring those red flags, but what part of her like just saying, Oh no, I can handle it, I can handle it, is her protecting the situation because she knows if she one, if she messes up, she could go back to jail or something, you know. Right. Or two, like she could really just flip in a minute. And is she like doing that out of like her trying to control herself, or is she just missing all these red flags? Yeah, like so that's hard to tell. Yeah, but yeah, so it could be a good thing, but that's what I I think I would focus on, really. That intervention with her, is just making sure that she understands there's a difference between the things, yeah, yeah. Love that. Alright, so what's the hard truth that we're dropping? Okay, for Millie, the hard truth would be just because something is better than your past doesn't mean it's safe. Oh, I like that. Wow, that's so applicable to her. Yeah, and a lot of people too. Yeah. Um yeah. Wow, that's a good one. Um, for Sarah, I'm gonna be saying your confidence is masking what you're not confronting. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. All right, now let's bring it back to real life. All right, back to real life. Back to real life. Okay, so I think this is the part that really gets me. A lot of the time, the signs are there. It's just that we're explaining them away, minimizing them, or telling ourselves it's not that serious. And then when everything finally clicks, it feels like a plot twist. But it's not always new information, it's just the moment we finally see it clearly. Wow, that's so good. Cause that's very similar to what I'm gonna say here. Yeah. Oh my god, literally. Sometimes we stay in control instead of being honest. The truth usually shows up, even if we try to manage it. Yeah, I love that. Oh my god. And I'm just thinking of like the greatest plot twist I've ever had in my life. An emotional whiplash in a relationship, not in life, yeah, but like that was a big one. Oh my god, that was a lot of pain, but it was was it worth the plot? It was absolutely worth the plot. Okay, because I would have never learned if I didn't learn. All right, and now let's segue into the pain and the plot. Okay, so for Sarah Morgan, again from The Perfect Marriage, the moment is when Sarah chooses to take Adam's case and defend him in court, despite knowing the truth about her own involvement. Ooh, that was right. Ooh, you were right. Okay, sorry guys, I gave it away. Um there's more, there's more details to you. You sounded so sorry. Yeah, I know. Not sorry. Okay, the pain, control over the narrative. I can outsmart this situation, detachment from consequences, belief that being the smartest equals being untouchable. The shift, right? If she didn't take the case, she doesn't take the case, or steps back instead of inserting herself into the defense, and the truth is no longer something she can control from the inside. How that would affect the plot? Well, the entire courtroom dynamic changes, obviously, which would probably be for the best. Adam's outcome likely shifts completely. Sarah loses control of the narrative and the illusion of being untouchable. So she really said, Let me defend this case like she wasn't the biggest plot twist in it. I love that. Yeah, you guessed it. I guess I don't need to read the book anymore. I mean, you already guessed it. Yeah. I didn't I but I still might want to read it just to see if I would I mean, just to experience it. I just feel like I didn't see it coming. Oh my goodness. This is how we got to the pain in the plot in the first place. Also, how well my personal plot was ignoring all the red flags. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Talking about I didn't see it coming, and you're sitting here looking at me like, how?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Oh god. Okay, sorry. Let's bring it back to Millie.
SPEAKER_00So for Millie, the pain in the plot. For her, I'd say the moment is when Millie starts noticing that the situations she's in don't feel like coincidences anymore. Like she keeps ending up in these uncomfortable, almost set up situations, and at first she's questioning herself, but then it starts to feel intentional. So the pain, self-doubt, second guessing. She's constantly questioning like, is this me? Am I overreacting? Did I understand that? The gaslighting, because the environment around her is making her feel like her perception isn't reliable. Survival mode. She's in this mindset of this situation isn't perfect, but it's better than where I came from. So let me just deal with it. Normalizing discomfort. She keeps explaining things away instead of trusting that something is actually off. And familiar chaos. And I think there's also something there about like what feels familiar, even if it's not safe. So the shift would have been if she trusted herself sooner, trusting her instincts earlier, recognizing patterns instead of isolating incidents, not needing proof to validate discomfort. Like instead of needing everything to make logical sense, she could have honored the feeling of this doesn't feel right. Yeah. The plot. The realization wouldn't feel like such a shock, less everything just flipped, more gradual awareness instead of sudden whiplash. Because the emotional whiplash comes from the moment of wait, this was happening this whole time, but if she caught it earlier, it becomes less of a twist and more of an awareness. She thought she was playing the game whole time the game was playing her. Like, really. No, seriously. Because like everything was set up intentionally by I mean, I'm not gonna necessarily say it, but it was like she came into the situation with her own little backstory, and then she walks in, and it's really someone set this up exactly how she wanted it to be. Like she picked this person on purpose. Well, let me shut up. Alright. Yeah, shut up. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So, um, for both of these women, was the pain worth the plot?
SPEAKER_00I say so because now Millie's out here helping other women in other situations, and she found her love and she has her kids. I don't know if I agree for my okay. But there's also a second book, The Perfect Divorce, that I haven't read yet. Is it so the continuation of them or is it a brand new book? I think it's them, but I'm not sure what's really going on. Um, but I don't know that this was worth the plot for her. Yeah, because I figured it out in like three seconds. Yeah. So she could have kept her heartbreak and exactly, exactly. Not defend him, like everything that would have shifted, yeah, is exactly what she should have done. Okay. Oh, I love that. It's the first time that we're not agreeing. So the pain was not worth the plot.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00But for Millie, it was, and I agree. Yeah, yeah. Alright, is it our favorite time? Mini fun segments. Woo woo. Time for some chaos. Alright, so emotional liplash. Yes. Alright, so the first game, would you survive it? So, what we're gonna do is we're gonna present a topic, and we would say, like, if we would catch it early, or if we would just like be emotionally blindsided. Okay, perfect. Love it. Let's go. Alright. From the perfect marriage, you find out your partner hit a major part of their past. Would you have sensed it early or been blindsided? I probably blindside. Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah, I believe that. I'm not saying that like you'll never know how something like this. Yeah. And if he's really good at playing the game, like I haven't read it, so I don't know like if he was being obvious or anything like this, or yeah, that's what I'm saying. The perfect marriage. Sorry, I was thinking about real life. No, I mean like I get that in real life, like if we're comparing it, you probably wouldn't have known that. Yeah, not blindsided. Okay.
unknownYeah. Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I probably would have known something was going on. So that's what I'm saying. Like, I don't know how obvious it would be because I don't know how obvious he was in the book or how important this whole thing was. But in real life, I feel like if my partner hit a major part of their past, I probably wouldn't know, I wouldn't expect or suspect anything. Was so maybe I'd be blindsided too, because it's in their past. Right, exactly. Okay. If a friend suddenly becomes overly secretive and started acting out of character, would you question it or brush it off? I'm questioning it because what in the hell, Renee? Yeah, because like why are you acting like acting weird? Yeah, yeah. Okay. I'd question it. Imagine your closest colleague was secretly working against you. Would you catch that or be completely shocked? I would be shocked that you would be working against me because you're my closest colleague. Yeah, I'm selling fucking once upon a session t-shirts behind the dumpster or behind the building. If a piece of evidence in your job turned out to be planted by someone you trusted, would you have noticed something off? No. Yeah. I'm blindsided emotionally. God, I think I have a problem where I don't pay attention to red flags. Maybe you should. Yeah, I mean, like now I am. No, yeah. Yeah. But I'm thinking about like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What if someone close to you made a huge personal sacrifice you never saw coming? Would you have predicted it? Um, I think I would. I mean, I know this is gonna sound terrible, but I think I would expect someone to make a not a huge personal sacrifice, but like, yeah. I think I would have predicted it. Yeah. That's what people do who care about you. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Alright. Now for you, ma'am. Okay. Let's go. Let's go. If your boss's seemingly perfect home had rooms you weren't allowed to enter, would you be suspicious or trust it? Well, if I was a housemaid and there were rooms that I wasn't allowed to enter, I think I would I would trust it because maybe they don't need me to clean those rooms. Maybe they're personal. Like I don't shit. That's the one less room I gotta clean. Yeah, I agree with that actually. Yeah, I'm not looking into it. That's their personal business, right? Exactly. Yeah, I agree. Okay, you start noticing small things out of place at work. Would you pick up on the danger earlier or brush it off? I might brush it off because like I would think I'm overreacting. I'm like, okay, this is a new job. Maybe I'm not thinking as clearly, you know, like maybe I did make a mistake, or maybe I didn't, but they're just a little crazy. If I need this job, I'm keeping it. So I would I would just kind of brush it off. Brush it off, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um, I think same. I would brush it off.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Again, because like how emotionally invested am I supposed to be in people's personal stuff if I'm a maid? Like, that's their I'm just here cleaning up, you know? Providing a service. Right.
SPEAKER_01I'm going home. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I live there never died.
SPEAKER_01But still, you're going to your attic and getting lots of yeah.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god. Okay. Um, if someone you worked for started acting overly kind right before something went wrong, would you suspect or suspect it or feel relieved? Um, I feel like if they started acting overly kind, I'm not really sure. Yeah. Like right before something went wrong, I would automatically think they had something to do with it. Yeah. Because I'm like, well, why were you being so yeah, yeah. Yeah, like is it a guilty conscience? I agree. Yeah. I agree with that. Imagine your seemingly harmless task involved covering up something bigger. Would you realize or be blindsided? Um, I would probably I would be I might I might realize that because as I'm doing it, I'm probably thinking about it. Like, what is this for? Like, what's really going on here? I would try to investigate a little bit, not like overly, but I would be thinking, like, you know, what's going on here? See, for me, I would be like, oh, it's a seemingly harmless task. So, like, whatever. Blindsided. Yeah. Oh goodness. Okay. All right. All right. And finally, if you learned someone you trusted at work had been lying about their identity, would you have known or been caught off guard? Hmm. This could go either or this could be 50 50 for me because some you know what? I'm gonna know because I just automatically suspect like everyone's lying at work. So, like, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but that doesn't matter because if they are really lying about it, then I was right in the first place. That's a good way to look at it. Yeah. Put on these masks, right? And we're going to work with them. People at work don't. It's there's a difference between like being real and just being too real and too. Yeah. Like, why does anyone at work know anything about anyone else? Yeah. Yeah. You know, yeah. I'm keeping it to myself.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, I don't know that I'd be caught off guard. I'd just be like, oh, okay, you were lying. Like, whatever. Live your life. Like, I don't know. You know what I mean? Yeah. Alright. Well, that was fun. I love that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, what's next? We got the whiplash scale. Alright. What'd you say? I'm like, it's on sale for $4.99. The way you're like, we got the whiplash scale. The whiplash scale. Cool whip. Um, alright. So we're gonna rate how fast something would emotionally ruin us. Okay, so the rating scale is one, not shopped. Two, okay, wait. Or three, excuse me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Alright. Alright. Let's go. Alright, let's go. Relationship life. Alright. You find out your partner has a whole second phone. I would be like, excuse me. Yeah, because why wouldn't I know that right off the bat? Exactly. Why do I find that out? You should. I know that he has two phones because I see it every day. Yeah. Yeah. Someone says we need to talk with no context. Okay, wait. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because wait, what did I do? Right, right. I hate that we need to talk.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then you got me waiting for three days.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Like, let's go. Right. Alright. You thought you were exclusive. They thought you were vibing. Not shocked. Um, excuse me because hell no. Yeah. Yeah. There's no thinking around here. Excuse me, right? We're crystal clear. Alright. Your ex suddenly gets engaged to someone new. Not shocked. Because like people scramble to figure it out. You know, after things are over. Because, like, how do you go on with your life? Yeah. Yeah, I agree, not shocked. Yeah. Because it's mostly time. Because it probably did happen. Yeah. Alright. A situation ship ends and they act like it meant nothing. Okay, wait.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, no, it's a situation ship, so should I even know that's not true? No, okay for me. Okay, wait. Because like we we did have conversations and like, right. Why are you acting like this now? Like, did it mean nothing to you? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Um, your friend knew something important and didn't tell you. It would be an excuse me. Yeah. Because I tell you stuff that's not important at all. Like, my voice notes are 10 minutes long for like a two-line fucking two-word sentence.
SPEAKER_01And then you text me after, and you're like, the whole thing was a jump and spin.
SPEAKER_00Don't listen to that. Or you're right. Yeah. But I listen to it at like 1.25 because I'm not trying to miss anything. I don't care if it didn't mean anything. And I stay all the way to 10 minutes. That's right. There's always like a little present at the end for you. I'm like, if you stayed this long, if you stayed this long, press one for your prize. Yeah. Someone love bombs you and then disappears. I'm not shocked because that's what they're out here giving. Well, truthfully, I didn't know what love bombing was. So to me, it was like, excuse me. I didn't know love bombing was a thing. Like, I don't know. I told you when we were in Dubai. I was like, this seems too good to be true. Like, this is like love bombing. And you're like, no.
SPEAKER_01Wait, that was a plot twist.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god. That was a plot twist. Okay. Okay, okay. Sorry. Sorry. You find out you were the side person the whole time. Oh no. That actually did that happen? Yeah. Oh. Yeah, I found that out too once. And I was I I wasn't even shocked. But I wasn't okay with it. You walk away from that. But I wasn't shocked. I feel like I should have not been shocked. No, you should not have. But uh yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, sometimes you don't want to believe that people do things to you that you know, like you just don't want to believe that.
SPEAKER_00How much they love you and or pretend or whatever the hell. For a very long time. Oh my god. Um, okay. Uh they introduce you as my friend in public. Well, like, maybe I am your friend. Like, is this after we've established like we're in a relationship? Or like what? I guess it depends. It depends. Yeah. I think that depends. I think maybe okay, wait. Yeah. Like I wouldn't I wouldn't be shocked. No, I really wouldn't be shocked if they did it. Because I would be like, okay, there's some maybe whatever. Right. But like I don't need him to say, like, this is my lady friend or this is my girlfriend. Because I don't need to, I don't know these people if I'm being introduced, and I don't need to feel validated by them or like him in that moment, I don't think. But there's nothing wrong with him saying this is my girlfriend. Right, right. You know, but I wouldn't be like, oh my god, why didn't he say that? I wouldn't start thinking like someone in here was like his ex and he doesn't want to start some shit. I wouldn't go there. So no, right, right. Yeah. Okay. Alright, you get blocked with no explanation. I'm not shocked. I wouldn't even care. Like, go for it. I probably blocked you personally. Yeah, I was just gonna say that. Wow, mine like okay. Okay, the quiet, harmless character is actually the villain. I'm not shocked. I'm not shocked either. Yeah, that's what I'm here for. Exactly. The love interest betrays the main character. I'm not shocked. I'm not shocked. You can tell we read. Okay, go ahead. Oh, that's my turn. Yeah, the main character has been unreliable the whole time. I'm not shocked. No, the dead character isn't actually dead. So that's that's a um Okay, wait. What's the number two? Yeah, yeah. Okay, wait. Because like because I'm like, wait, okay. Yeah, like now I'm second guessing. Like I said, remember when I was talking about Cormac, I'm like, is he is he really dead? I know. Second guess everybody's dead, but then sometimes they're really who was it that I thought that wasn't Midas. I was like, you're not dead, you're like, bitch. Yeah, he was dead, he was molten gold, he was gone. Okay, the best friend was in on it the whole time. I would be able to do that. I might be shocked, I might be shocked. Yeah, because I haven't really had that many. Well, Danica was in on it the whole time. I don't know. But we were shocked. Okay, there's an excuse me. Thank you. You're right. All right, the villain actually had a point, not shocked, because they usually do. Not shocked, yeah. If you don't know what we're talking about, go back to villains who needed therapy. Yeah, seriously. Okay, the story resets and everything you knew changes. Oh my god, that literally happened. And I said, excuse me. What story? Wrath of the Fallen. Oh shit! Oh my god, that was a huge story. Did that come from this? That's crazy. I don't know, but yeah. Hello? Literally. Literally if I spoiled it. Sorry. No, they don't, they already know. Yeah. Alright. Um, the narrator was lying to you. Not shocked. Not shocked. The safe place was never safe. Not shocked. The prophecy was misinterpreted the entire time. I'm not shocked. Wow, I love that. Yeah. Because we're not shocked at anything in the book except that one thing. Yeah. Alright, what about work and everyday chaos? Okay. Uh, your job announces major changes out of nowhere. Not shocked. Not shocked. You find out co-workers have been talking about you. Not shocked. Not shocked. A quick meeting turns into something serious, not shocked. Oh, not shocked at all. Yeah. You realize you misunderstood a situation completely. Okay, wait. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Plans change last minute after you already committed. I mean, I wouldn't be shocked, but I don't commit to plans. So I don't show up at work, especially. Hello? Aren't you supposed to be working today? No, I'm just kidding. We're working. Just kidding. Okay. I'm not at work today, and I'm supposed to be. I am not at work today. But you're excused. I'm excused, yes. Alright. Let's see. You show up thinking one thing and it's something completely different. I'm not shocked. Yeah, no, I'm not shocked either. Someone you trusted switches up on you suddenly. Not shocked. Not shocked. Plot twist. Stupid. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let's do some funny light chaos. Okay. Okay. You send a text to the wrong person. Holy shit. You know that's my biggest fear in life. Biggest fear in life. I though panic. I panic every time I send like a risky kind of text. Yeah. Or like something won't want other people to know. Yeah. Or if I'm texting someone and it's close to like yeah, I don't know, close to the top or something like that. I'm always like, oh my god, I thought I sent text. That's why I only have five people in my text thread. Yeah. Like I keep all my messages. But I have my six favorite pins, you know, so that's a good thing. Okay, that's fair. But like oh my god, sometimes I think I'm sharing like a photo with you, and then I panic and I'm like, oh my god, am I sending this to my mom? Because it's always like inappropriate nonsense or whatever. But yeah. You reread a conversation and realize you misread everything. Um maybe an okay wait for me. Yeah, because I I'm not saying I proofread it, but like I try to be sure because I'm so afraid of sending the wrong things. Like I try to make sure I understand what's going on. Yeah, I agree with that. Uh, you hype something up in your head and it's mid. I'm not surprised. I'm always hyping stuff up and it ends up being mid. So yeah, yeah. You realize you've been pronouncing something wrong for years. It's me, and I'm like, excuse me, Pierre, Galathinius, Sky at the car with the sky car, everything. I am not shocked at myself, but I'm also shocked, and I'm like, wait, what? I've been saying that wrong. Yeah, I say, wait, what? No, excuse me, because why hasn't anyone corrected me? Yeah, you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay, you wave back at someone who wasn't waving at you. Okay, you wave back at someone who wasn't waving at you.
SPEAKER_00That happened to me at work like yesterday. I got on the elevator and someone was like, hi, and I was like, hi, and then I saw behind me the cows. So were you like, I just kept walking. I'm like, whatever. You're not shocked. I'm not shocked because like I'm I'm just trying. I don't even want to be there. So I'm trying to participate and no one's participating. They don't want you there either. No, I probably no one's acknowledging you. That was a good one. Like, I just remember seeing like whatever videos of people, or I've seen people waving at people who were not, yeah. They weren't whatever. But they don't make it weird, they're not like, oh, not you. Yeah, they just everybody says good morning and keeps it going. Yeah, they that's that's nice of people. All right, the last one. Okay, so last one. I see ones, okay. You defend someone and then find out they were wrong the whole time. Oh my god. That's excuse me because I need to know like the truth. I would have probably defended you no matter what, but like why would you lie to me about it? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Alright, you ignored red flags because the vibes were good. Yep, yeah, that's me. I'm not surprised. I'm not shocked at all. I'm not surprised because, like we've mentioned before, I think it was an emotional cover charge or book boyfriend. One of them. One of our many previous episodes now. Yes. Um, yes, like if I know that something isn't good for me or it's a red flag and I still stick with it, like I'm making a choice at that point. Yeah. So I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah. Like the vibes were good. Why would I be surprised? I'm not shocked. Yeah. Yeah. You had a feeling something was off and you were right. I'm not shocked because if I had a feeling and I was right, then why would I be shocked? I agree. And you find out the story you believed isn't the full story. Oh my god. Excuse me? Yeah. Yeah. Same. Because if I believed it, then I'm gonna like stand on it, you know, and defend it. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Alright, well, that's it. That was good chaos. Yeah, that's good. I loved those. Okay, well, now speaking of ignoring red flags because the vibes were good, guys. Our next episode. Okay. Wait, before we do the next episode, I completely forgot something that's going on. What's going on? We just got our bookmarks today. Oh my god, our bookmarks. We got our first merch item, but we're not selling them, we're just bringing them to BookCon to spread awareness of our podcast. That's it. So if you're there, yeah, get over. Just find us. Yeah, and if you find one of our bookmarks, take a picture of it and like share it with us so we can see like where they ended up, you know. Yeah, send us stuff. Send us stuff. I love that. We'll just link our sizes somewhere in the yeah, no, okay. Next session is something we already know you're all gonna love. And honestly, we love it too. A little too much, like we know it's questionable, but we're still reading it. Yeah, yeah, and possibly like that's why we're reading it. Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah, because like who doesn't love? Yes, guys, we're talking about forbidden love. Yes, but not just the fun part, we're also getting into why it feels so intense and what's actually going on underneath. All right, that's it for the session. See you next time. We want you to be a part of this world with us. Send us your book recommendations, character obsessions, or topics you want us to cover. You can find us on Instagram and TikTok at once upon a session pod. Or email us at info at onceuponassessionpod.com if you want to share thoughts, suggestions, or just scream about a plot twist with us. Okay. So are we charging for this session? Emotionally always. See you next session. Same couch, same chaos. Bye. Bye. Please check your emotional book blushes. Oh yeah. See you at BookCon. See you at BookCon. We'll be handing our bookmarks. Yeah, that's that's in two months. In a month.
SPEAKER_01No, that's in two weeks.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god. That's two days first.
SPEAKER_01All right, April Fools two weeks. Alright, bye.