Session 9: Forbidden Love

Some love stories are easy to root for. Others… make you pause.

In this episode of Once Upon a Session, Vanessa and Nareesa explore the psychology behind forbidden love — the pull toward relationships that exist between desire and consequence.

Why do we want what we can’t have? And when does love cross the line from exciting to harmful?

Tune in as we break down the emotional, psychological, and relational dynamics behind the love stories we can’t look away from.

Disclaimer: We’re licensed therapists, but we’re not your therapists. Everything shared here is for conversation, reflection, and entertainment.

✨ Follow Once Upon a Session for new episodes exploring stories, psychology, and healing.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Okay, what makes something feel forbidden? Is it the people or the fact that it shouldn't be happening at all?

SPEAKER_02 0:19

I think it's when you know it crosses a line.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

And you feel it anyway.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Which is where it gets dangerous.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Because now it's not just love.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

It's consequences.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

This is once upon a session where two therapists turn their TBR pile into treatment plans. And every story becomes a session. I'm Vanessa.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

And I'm Nerisa.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

And we both understand the appeal of forbidden love.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

A little more than we'd like to admit.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

Okay, just a quick note before we dive in.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

We're both licensed therapists, but we're not your therapist.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

Everything we share here is for conversation, reflection, and maybe a little inspiration.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

But it's not a substitute for therapy. If you're struggling, please reach out to a mental health professional who can give you the care and support you deserve.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

Now that you're all checked in, have a seat on our couch.

SPEAKER_03 1:17

All right.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

Alright. Welcome back. Welcome back, everybody. Thanks for coming. Oh my god, what were we just talking about? Sorry, we're getting right into it clearly. Um, so what was that place in Virginia? Whoever is listening in Ansome. Oh, I forgot.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

It's not Ansom.

SPEAKER_02 1:36

Okay, we're not gonna butcher it.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

It's Ashburn, Virginia.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Whoever is listening in Ashburn, Virginia, you guys are like the most loyal listeners because you're just here every episode.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

And then Weatherford, Texas, we see you.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Yes, thank you guys. You guys are like our loyal listeners and we appreciate it. So yeah, that was exciting.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

And I don't know if the listeners in like the Bronx or Yonkers.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Yeah, I mean, also like shout out to all the people in New York, you know.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Do you see us outside?

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Like right, right, or is it me? Is it my wait? Do they even know what we look like? Well, soon they will because next week is BookCon, and we were gonna do a little like intro video of us at BookCon so you guys could see what we look like, just in case you ever saw us because we're famous now and you should come say hi.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

Mm-hmm. Yeah, but don't be weird, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

Don't be weird. Just come over. We're just two normal people, honestly, and we would love it.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

Um, oh my god, yeah. So next week is BookCon.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Is it already next week?

SPEAKER_02 2:44

It's already next week.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

Oh my goodness. Okay, I thought I had more time to like get my life together.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

No, no, you do not have more time to get your life together. You never have enough time to get your life together, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Okay, well, I got some stuff to do.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

Yep. I'm excited, definitely. Also, like I know we just did plot twists and emotional whiplash, but Frida McFadden just revealed who she actually is.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Yeah, she's the whole plot twist.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

Yeah, that was amazing. Also, I know you did the housemaids last week, and I finally watched a movie. And it was pretty good. I enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Yeah, it was good, but like I said, we didn't really need to go to the movies to see that.

SPEAKER_02 3:27

Yeah, you were right, like all the extra it was a little whatever, I guess it's a movie. Also, like my celebrity crush is in there, Michele Morone. And actually, we're watching so guys, because of our topic today, we're watching 365 days, which is just straight like smut.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Smut, yeah, smutty smut, smut.

SPEAKER_02 3:49

Anyway, but it's a forbidden romance story.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

It's like pause, not pause, what's the word? Muted.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

It's muted, right? Yeah, because you guys don't need to hear them in the background doing stuff.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

And we would probably like get sued.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

Yeah, oh true. I always forget that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Okay, well, what are we reading?

SPEAKER_02 4:10

Oh, we're still reading Throne of Glass. I just started Air of Fire, and I already met my baby daddy Rowan so soon. I didn't realize he was like right in like chapter two. He's like, and I'm Rowan.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Is that how he sounds to you? And I'm Rowan.

SPEAKER_02 4:27

No, no, he has a more deeper sensual voice. Oh my god, a forbidden love, like would a forbidden love be like me and a Fae?

SPEAKER_00 4:38

I don't know. Is that forbidden?

SPEAKER_02 4:40

I don't know, because aren't they another like um species? Species.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

Okay, anyway, sorry, we digress. Yeah, so Arifier.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

Arifier. I just finished Airfire last night. So now I'm starting Assassin's Blade. I'm reading it the opposite way.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Um, yeah, and I'm excited. I'm really excited to see like how everything's gonna play out reading it this way this time around.

SPEAKER_02 5:10

And like what about also we were talking about this before, like just her relationship with Kale and like she lost her virginity to him, and like now you're gonna meet like Sam.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Yeah, and now I see it. Like now I see it from a different standpoint, like when we first read it and we knew about Sam before. It was like, ew, okay, I'll get away. You know, she's been through some shit. Right. But here I am. I'm just like, oh, this is her experiencing her first, like kind of love. Yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

Oh my god. Yeah. Oh, good luck. Thanks. You can call me crying whenever you want. Yeah. Okay, so that's what we're reading. Work is just work. Yeah. This is our work. This is our work now. We're done. Yeah. Alright, well, let's get into it. All right.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Okay, so today we're talking about forbidden love.

SPEAKER_02 6:03

And not just in a dramatic fictional way. But what actually makes something feel forbidden in the first place.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Because it's not always about the feelings themselves, it's about the context, timing, power, and impact.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

Yeah. Oh my god, we love a good taboo forbidden love story. Love it. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Mm-hmm. It just brings the excitement.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

Yeah. And like reading it. Well, we'll get into it right now.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

Okay. So, so why do people feel drawn to relationships that are complicated?

SPEAKER_02 6:37

A lot of it comes down to intensity.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Yeah. When something is restricted or off limits, it can feel more powerful.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

And sometimes that intensity gets mistaken for depth. There's always the element of secrecy. Which can create a kind of emotional bubble where everything feels heightened. But that doesn't mean it's sustainable. And in real life, forbidden dynamics usually involve something else, like imbalance.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Power differences, timing issues, or existing relationships.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

And that's where the consequences come in.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Because it's not just how do I feel.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

It's also who does this affect. And what does this cost long term? And that's the tension. Something can feel real. And still not be healthy. Yeah. It's like. Sorry, I know this is so crazy to like um compare it to. But it's like me thinking about like why isn't like and like listen, salads are healthy or whatever, but when I think about a salad and french fries, it's like the forbidden thing is the thing that's like the most appealing. Yeah. Sorry, I'm hungry. That's why I'm using food.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

So yeah, it's just like kind of I don't know, you're just drawn to something.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

You know, there's like a forbidden attraction there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

Or something like familiar is just kind of boring, you know?

SPEAKER_02 8:10

Like you're allowed to do this. There's no risk. Right. And it's like exciting, you know, it's the excitement and the adrenaline, and yeah. Yeah. Um, so yeah, love forbidden. We who doesn't? If you guys are out there like, I don't know, like anything for you're lying. You guys haven't experienced it before. Well, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

Alright, well.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

Alright, well, let's talk about how this shows up in fiction.

SPEAKER_02 8:39

Because books love a forbidden dynamic.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

And usually it's built on tension.

SPEAKER_02 8:45

Timing, power, or relationships that complicate things.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

And what makes these stories so compelling is that emotional push and pull.

SPEAKER_02 8:52

Like you understand why it's happening. But you also see why it shouldn't. And that's where the whiplash comes in.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

You're rooting for something and questioning it at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. Do you remember like when bleep and bleep? Oh yeah. It's like you want that to work so bad, but then at the same time, it's like you know, this is wrong. This shouldn't be happening. But even you as bleep, I mean, how did that feel for you? To you weren't in that situation, but you were also rooting for that, even though you knew it shouldn't have been.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

Right. Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. It's again, it's like I we know it's wrong, right? But it's just so right. Yeah at the same time, it's hard, it's really hard. And like I mean, we'll get into it, but there's reasons why like woo people are even attracted to these situations beyond like the excitement and the taboo. There's like a deeper emotional layer. So, like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

And then if you can believe in like you just didn't meet someone in the right time, like it doesn't mean that this couldn't have been right, maybe in another universe, like whatever.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Yeah, or maybe in the future. We still got time.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

I like the way you think. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

All right, let's get into it. Okay, who's sitting on your couch today? I'm bringing Jordan from Birthday Girl. Oh my god, yes. And I'm bringing Tiernan from Credence.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

These are not simple dynamics.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Nope, not at all. And we hope you guys read these books too, obviously. And if not, then you already know what I'm gonna say. I'm not gonna bully you today.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

No bullying today.

SPEAKER_02 10:46

Alright. Oh, I think we both picked the same author, so yay yes.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_02 10:52

I guess, okay, so again, I'm doing Credence by Penelope Douglas. I guess Penelope is like the queen of Forbidden Love because I didn't even realize we had done the same. And she has other books that I want to read too. Oh, yeah. And they're all probably just so good.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

And I can't wait.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

Mm-hmm. Okay, so a little synopsis about Credence. Credence follows Tiernan De Haas, a teenager who, after the death of her parents, is sent to live in an isolated mountain cabin with her father's stepbrother, Jake Vanderberg, and his two sons. Adult sons. Sorry, let me make that clear. Yes, Noah and Caleb. And like everything we're talking about today, if I didn't have to say this, but obviously, is consensual.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:39

So there's no non-consensual situations going on here. We clearly don't condone that.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Thank you for making that clear. No, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 11:47

Yeah. Okay, so his two adult sons, Noah and Caleb. Removed from her normal environment and placed in close proximity to all three men, Tiernan forms complex and taboo relationships shaped by isolation, emotional deprivation, and blurred relational roles. The story explores how grief, environment, and unmet needs can influence attachment, attraction, and identity. And they is falcon in this book, girl. So yeah. Just a spoiler alert. If y'all like some taboo situations, it's good. Go for it. But it's not like put it in the freezer bad.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

It's like good enough. You know? Oh my god, put it in the freezer bad is. We'll get to it, guys. Okay, presenting problem behaviors, a rapid attachment with an isolated high-intensity environment, difficulty distinguishing emotional need from attraction, blurred relational boundaries like guardian peer dynamics, um tolerance of controlling or harmful behaviors, adapting to environment rather than making grounded choices, some core themes forbidden love versus conditioned attachment, isolation intensifying connection and dependency, power dynamics within proximity-based relationships, grief and emotional deprivation influencing attachment. So the kind of core belief for her is that I need connection and this is what's available. Um, so some treatment goals and interventions. We would differentiate attachment from environmental influence, increase awareness of boundaries and power dynamics, process grief and emotional deprivation. Cause yeah, I think like her parents dying and then just her, like so much was happening that she didn't even get time to do that. Um and uh strengthening identity outside of relational roles, what progress looks like for her. Uh differentiating between connection, dependency, and attraction. Um, obviously establishing clearer boundaries, making decisions based on self-awareness rather than environment. Um, and the outcome for her is Tiernan does not find clarity simply through choosing a relationship. She finds it by understanding how her environment shaped her needs, her attachments, and her sense of connection. Sometimes forbidden love isn't just about what's wrong, it's about what feels like the only option when your world is small and your needs go unmet. And exactly what I meant when I was saying, like, sometimes it's a deeper emotional reason.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

Um, so yeah, and if I remember correctly, she did end up with one of them. Right? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

Maybe she ended up with all of them. I yeah. You gotta agreed.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

Or maybe she didn't choose any. I forget how it ends, guys. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

But like also, why choose?

SPEAKER_02 14:50

Yeah. Yeah. But it was really interesting. Um, like, yes, while there was a lot of Falcon going on, it was really interesting just to see her, like, you know, figure out these dynamics. So yeah, we loved Credence.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

I want to do a reread of Credence. Yeah. I don't know when we'll have the time.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

I'm saying we because now you Yeah, no, absolutely. I'm rereading everything you're rereading. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

Okay. Alright. Okay, so I'm bringing Jordan from Birthday Girl by Penelope Douglas. Yes. All right. Birthday Girl follows Jordan, a young woman who's navigating early adulthood without a lot of stability. At the start of the story, she's in a relationship that already feels a little uneven. And after a series of circumstances, she ends up moving into the same house as her boyfriend and his father. And that's really where the tension begins because what starts as proximity slowly turns into something emotional, and then eventually physical with someone she absolutely should not be developing feelings for. And what makes this story so compelling is that it doesn't present the relationship as impulsive or reckless right away, it builds on quiet moments, emotional connection, shared space, and that's what makes the line feel so blurred. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

That wasn't slow spur. Like I just remember them in the movie theater. Yeah, uh oh yeah, when they first met. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, oh my god, this is a little weird. But again, like I forget everybody's of legal age. Yeah. Um, so yeah. But oh, it was so good.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

But it was so like I like how it wasn't sneaky at all. Like because she first of all, her boyfriend stood not really stood her up, but kind of stood her up, and that's how she ended up going to the movies by herself. Exactly. Like, and then it was just like a fun connection, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

It was a meet cute, and it was a really cute meet cute. It was a really cute meeting. I love this book. Oh god, I want to reread this too. Okay, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

No, and literally, like we were just saying, this isn't just about attraction, it's about how connection can develop in environments where boundaries are already complicated. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:13

And she didn't know like his dad. This is just a man like sitting there watching a movie.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Yeah. Yeah. I think she spilled something and then she like went down to where he was. Yeah. Oh, the bottle of wine. Yeah, yeah. I would have left that literally. If I dropped a bottle of wine in the movies, I would have I would just leave it. But you know, yeah, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 17:40

Anyway, so also, like, that's here we go again with forbidden shit, like getting a bottle of wine to the movie theater. Everything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

Forbidden. Let me tell you a little bit about Jordan. Okay. She's at a really transitional point in her life. We meet her on her birthday. She's trying to figure out independence, but she doesn't fully have the resources or support system to do that on her own. Her and her boyfriend like had recently gotten kicked out of their apartment. Um, but she loved him. She could have just gone and worked at the strip club that her sister works at. Oh my god. To get that.

SPEAKER_02 18:12

Oh, I totally forgot about her sister.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

She's like a side character.

SPEAKER_02 18:16

Yeah. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Didn't you get that next week?

SPEAKER_02 18:21

You'll get there.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

There's a level of um instability in her environment financially, relationally, and emotionally, which makes her more vulnerable to seeking out connection in the spaces that feel available to her. What stands out about Jordan is that she's not just drawn to excitement, she's drawn to consistency, attention, and being understood. And when she finds that in someone who feels more grounded, more stable, and more emotionally attuned, it creates a kind of attachment that feels safe, even if the situation itself isn't. So the conflict for her isn't just this is wrong, it's this feels right in a way I haven't experienced before. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

Yeah. And I feel like that's how I get sucked in into a situation like this, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Yeah, so some presenting problems, difficulty maintaining clear relational boundaries in emotionally charged environments. Oops. Uh-huh. Attraction toward a figure who represents stability and emotional safety, internal conflict between awareness of consequences and desire for connection. Some core themes, attachment needs versus autonomy, seeking closeness and security while still developing independence. Validation and emotional recognition, being seen and understood, becomes a driving force in her decisions. Power dynamics and relational hierarchy, age, experience, and position create an imbalance that impacts consent and choice.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

Both of ours sound exactly the same. But I it's that's the topic.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

You know, like this is Cole's dad. Right, you know, his name was Pike. So she's like, I love Pike. Well, oops. You know, love Pike. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

This is a forbidden love story. Y'all know what's about to happen.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

Yeah, but anyway, so Pike represents like stability, attention, emotional presence, things that feel grounding in contrast to what she's currently experiencing. And when those needs are met in a way that she feels like that feels consistent, it can override her ability to fully sit with the long-term impacts of the situation. So some of the goals we're gonna increase insight into how emotional needs are influencing her attraction, identify and verbalize boundaries that feel difficult to maintain, strengthen her ability to tolerate discomfort without immediately seeking connection, explore her sense of identity outside of relational roles. Yeah. And interventions, use reflective exploration to connect current relationship choices to underlying emotional needs, introduce boundary setting strategies and role-play difficult conversations.

SPEAKER_02 21:22

Oh yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

There were some difficult conversations she had to have, right? Like you don't fall in love with your ex's dad and not be able to tell him. Yeah, oh my god, yeah. Um can be. And process the impact of powerful dynamics on decision making and perceived safety, expected outcomes, increased awareness of how emotional vulnerability impacts her relational choices, improved ability to pause and evaluate decisions before acting on them, stronger sense of autonomy and identity outside of the relationship, and more consistent alignment between her values and Her behaviors.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

Also, like as you were talking, I like I don't whatever you guys may or may not have read these books, but like the men aren't like old either. No, they're like in their late 30s, early 40s, so it's not like creepy. Yeah. Um, also, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Yeah, I think he's um 37 or 38. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:21

They're like which is younger than me. So like hello. Yeah, they just started young. Oh man. Um, but yeah, that's so crazy though. Like, just think about like your dad's I mean, uh also like your dad's stepbrother and his sons. I don't feel like that. I feel like those are really strangers.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

Yeah, those are really strangers because your dad's stepbrother and their sons. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:48

But also like for years, her boyfriend's dad, I feel like that's bad.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

Yeah, but you know what? Like if Cole wasn't No, I'm not even gonna blame it on the whole relationship thing, but I don't know. Like the going through her POV and seeing like how it really played out, it's like it was just set up perfectly for her. Her her boyfriend wasn't doing what you know she needed, wasn't meeting her needs. And also I think it I don't know if Penelope Douglas did this on purpose or not, but when she um she made it very clear that they were friends first, yeah. Cole and um Jordan, they were friends, and I think that's why in the end, when you know they eventually came out to him and said, like, look, this is kind of what we're doing, right? Um, yeah, he was upset and then joined the Navy. Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

He left.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

But then he came back in two months, and then he he kind of understood the situation, right?

SPEAKER_02 23:46

Wasn't there a letter or something? Am I making that up? Sorry, never mind.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

I don't know about a letter.

SPEAKER_02 23:52

I thought like he wrote her a letter or somebody wrote somebody.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

No, they text. She texted. Oh, yes, yes, that's it. She texted and then he had texted her. He was like, Do you love him? And then she turned off her phone and then he went to boot camp or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

So that's the last thing we sorry, yeah, in 1983 with a letter, not a text. Yeah. Yeah. But also like he was okay eventually with her being with his like they weren't doing yeah, and all in my book too, like they all well. I'm gonna get into it.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

And Pike said he said it. He was like, you know, people around the neighborhood, they have to kind of get used to it, whatever. Like if anyone feels some type of way, like his son, yeah, and even his ex-wife, like whoever, right? Everyone became cool with it, and then even like he would hang out when they started having kids. Because they had, I think, like two kids or something like that. Right. And then Cole's kid would come over, or child would come over and hang out with theirs. Right, right. I feel like that's just family.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

Yeah. I also just keep thinking, I don't know why I keep thinking about her in the kitchen and then the whatever going on outside, and then like I'm just thinking about the steamy parts.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Yeah, well, yeah, definitely. And then, like, when she was upstairs, and I think she locked the door or something like that, and she called him.

SPEAKER_02 25:16

Oh, yeah, they were playing their like little sexy games.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

Yeah, and he was like, open the door, Jordan, open the door.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

Yeah, yeah, they have their own little kinks going on in a whole kink.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

Yeah, exactly. It's kink inception, kink inception, yes.

SPEAKER_02 25:33

Yeah, no, that was really cool. Love that, yeah. Yeah, all right, well, yeah, so treatment team meeting, clipboards out. Because we need to talk about the choices being made and the impact of those choices, yeah. Alright. So if they walked into our office, immediate clinical impressions.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

Okay, so if Jordan actually walked into my office as a client, my immediate reaction would be this isn't just about the relationship, this is about what that relationship is giving her that she feels like she can't get anywhere else. So immediate clinical impressions. In the first five minutes, I think she presents as pretty self-aware. Like she knows the situation's complicated, she knows it crossed the line, but underneath that, there's a level of emotional vulnerability that's driving her behavior more than she's fully accepting. I'd also be looking at some of the defenses coming up. There's definitely some rationalizing. Like this feels real, this feels different, which may be true, but it's also helping her stay in something that she knows has consequences. Attachment-wise, this feels very much like an anxious pull towards security. She's drawn to someone who feels stable, grounded, and consistent, especially compared to what she's currently experiencing. Yeah. And honestly, part of this could be a trauma response that just looks like personality, like adapting to instability by attaching quickly to what feels safe.

SPEAKER_02 27:09

Oh my god, I literally ditto. I mean, I'm gonna go through mine, but I'm hearing you and my notes are exactly the same. Yeah. I always want to initially react with some counter-transference thing, like, oh girl, are you in the house? That's a lot going on in that environment. But yeah. But obviously, um, she would present as detached, observant, emotionally muted. There would be grief underneath, deprivation, unmet needs, you know, um attachment, like anxious avoidant, depending on the dynamic. And like you said, like a trauma response, like bonding quickly due to like being isolated and not having any other option, and like she didn't process the grief, so she's trying to find comfort in this whole situation. So exactly what you said, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

I wonder if, um, because these are probably the only two Penelope Douglas books I've read, I think. Same. So I wonder if just like SJM, she likes a strong female character that you know, like SJM, like that kind of comes from a struggle no matter what, and then she kind of fights her way out the whatever. I wonder if this is kind of like Penelope Douglas's thing, you know, like that.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

That's really that's true. I guess we'll have to find out.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

Because these women are strong, yeah. They just they're put in these situations, like, how do I choose? What do I do?

SPEAKER_02 28:34

Like, and it's a different like emotional like deficit that they're feeling. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I love that. I can't wait to read more of her books now.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Yeah, yeah, me too. Is she gonna be at Book Cong?

SPEAKER_02 28:48

No. Uh no, she's not. Okay. But neither is Sarah J. Mask. Well, we don't know that. We don't know that. That's true. That's true. They might pop up. I mean, also like the people that are gonna be there are. No, they're great. You're great. I'm not trying to minimize them at all.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

Good. They'll be there and we'll be like, we'll be having the best time of our lives.

SPEAKER_02 29:09

Fangirling. We'll be fangirling in the corner somewhere. Counting toes.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Counting toes.

SPEAKER_02 29:15

All right, okay. So what they say versus what you know it is.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

I think Jordan would say the problem is the relationship. Like, I know this is complicated, but I really care about him and I don't know what to do. But what's actually underneath that is that she found a connection where she feels seen, valued, and emotionally held, and she doesn't want to lose that, even if the situation itself isn't sustainable. So the disconnect is that she thinks the issue is the relationship when really it's the emotional need that the relationship is meeting.

SPEAKER_02 29:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:51

I I I think really for her, this is the the core of what it is for her.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Yeah. And this was her first love. Like she like this was actually her first love. Right. Um, I think she thought she loved Cole. Yeah. But then when she actually got her needs met somewhere and someone saw her, and even down to the landscaping thing, you know, like that's what she wanted to do with her life, and like, what what do you mean? He's like building buildings and you know, doing all this stuff. It's it's just really cool. But it it was like that scene at the always at the pool, right? Like they're always around us. Yeah. But um when she was when they were fighting outside, and she was like, We need to just tell him right now because she was so afraid to lose that, yeah, you know, what she's been feeling for the first time, versus him who is like, I'm afraid to lose a relationship with my son. Right. You know, he was like, What if this doesn't work out in two weeks?

SPEAKER_02 30:50

Like, imagine being a dad and like yeah, you're dating your daughter.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

I think I would be a really good dad. I would be a good dad. Not so much a mom, but I'd be a good dad.

SPEAKER_02 31:03

That's so funny. What would you do if you're if you were dating your myself daughters? Oh no, wait, you're dad. I'm thinking about you as a woman. No, um, yeah, like what would you do? Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, that's hard.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

But also, yeah, I mean, is it more forbidden for him or for her?

SPEAKER_00 31:27

No, right? And then the thing is too, I think it's important to remember is that like he also was in the house and he got to have his son living back with him like for the first time in like a long time. So him seeing that his son wasn't treating Jordan right, I was just he was cheating on Jordan. He was like, she was out there mowing the lawn, washing the dishes, cooking while he was hung over and cheating on her. Like the men in 2026. But that's what I'm saying. Because Pike got to see that in his son, I mean, I would feel less guilty. Yeah, I'd be like, they're not even treating her, right? You know, so I can see maybe if it wasn't like that, maybe if he couldn't see that, then we couldn't empathize with him. Yeah, I agree. Because we would be like, Whoa, what are you doing? That's your son's girl.

SPEAKER_02 32:14

And he tried to like hold himself back and tell his son, like, why are you like, hello, what are you doing? Like, you know, to correct the behavior.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:21

Whether it was like out of guilt or like out of like not out of guilt, but you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm gonna just tell him to do this, but I really want to do this for her, you know? Um, oh god, it's such now that we're actually talking about it, because now that you're remembering it. Yeah, I'm just saying, like, I don't think we've broken down this book. Like, we didn't talk in depth about this book, like we do about everything else.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

I think this was one of those quick books, so we didn't even spend too much time. We were like, Oh yeah, that was good, that was really good. Right.

SPEAKER_02 32:54

Yeah, but no, I'm glad that we're actually like processing it now. And yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, it's so good. Um, so I feel like Tiernan would say, like, I don't know what I want, and everything just happened, which I completely agree with because, like, again, it's the attachment shaped by proximity and isolation, emotional needs being met, right? Again, confusion between safety, attention, and attraction, and also like she hasn't great, like this is all coming from a place of not grieving, um and like losing your parents again, like that's a huge thing, right? And like now you want comfort, you don't have parents to come for you anymore because you don't have anybody except this person who's you're staying with, so like yeah, and the that again that line just got blurred, and yeah, here we are.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

All right, beautiful blur it was.

SPEAKER_02 33:48

Yes, it was. Yes, it was.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

But in terms of what I'd work on first, um, I'm going straight into attachment work, helping her understand why this connection feels so intense and necessary. I'd also focus on emotional regulation because right now her feelings are kind of leading her decisions. We'd need to process the guilt too, because it's there, but it's not strong enough to interrupt the behavior. I'd also be looking at people pleasing and avoidance because there's a part of her that's actually not fully confronting the impact of her choices. And honestly, a big part of the work would be helping her learn to sit with discomfort instead of immediately moving toward connection to relieve it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

Yeah. She that would be great. I agree. Wow. I feel like this these two are the type of clients that like we actually might like they're more realistic than some of the other ones. Like, you know what I mean? I because like whatever, I get it. All the other ones are like Faye and fantasy and whatever, and their emotions still matter, but like this feels just more real. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

Yeah, this is someone you could easily put yourself in their shoes. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:02

Wank, wank. Um, okay, so for Tiernan, processing grief, like we gotta get there. Um, and just exploring the impact of being isolated, and then like we might get into like boundaries and growing grounding identity outside of your environment, but like the grief, we gotta talk about that, and I'm sure the other stuff will come out, you know. Yeah, so that would be what I kind of work on.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

Alright.

SPEAKER_02 35:29

Alright, our favorite part counter transference. Jinx, my blank.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

Alright. So I'm not gonna lie, she'd probably bring up a mix of empathy and frustration for me. Because I'd understand why she's drawn to this, but I'd also have that internal reaction of, you know, this is gonna get messy. I'd have to check that urge to protect her from the outcome because I can't make the decision for her, even if I can see where it's headed. And like I would want to be like, oh my god, bleep and bleep and bleep and bleep. Trust me, yeah, you don't want to go down this road. Yeah. But I I couldn't, like, I can't disclose all that. Right. But I can just have her make her decision and support her through whatever she's going through. And sometimes that's one of the hardest parts of therapy. I know.

SPEAKER_02 36:18

When you can relate because you just want to tell them so bad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

But you know what, to be honest, like, say I like me and you, we can be going through something and I can relate, and I'm telling you like what I wish I could tell my people, and you still don't listen. So, you know what? I think I'm okay with not sharing the information with them. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 36:40

Oh, okay. I was like for a minute, I was like, what do you mean I don't listen? And I got so offended as a friend. I was like, I do listen. What is she talking about? But yeah, yeah, yeah, I got you. Yeah, yeah, that is very true. I still don't listen. Yeah, sometimes you gotta just learn on your own, unfortunately. But yeah. Um, for Tiernan, um, I would want to know the T in detail, to be honest. Yeah, because I'd just be sitting there like, oh girl, tell me the deeds, like, you know, which is so inappropriate.

SPEAKER_00 37:16

No, but you could frame it under like the um prolonged exposure and be like, this is PE therapy. Right. I'm gonna need you to close your eyes and tell me exactly in detail, you know?

SPEAKER_02 37:29

Yeah, yeah, right. That would be so funny and so inappropriate. But like, obviously, this is we're not actually.

SPEAKER_00 37:36

Yeah, this is hypothetical, guys.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

We're not doing this, yeah. Um, but also like the urge to protect and create distance, because I'd be like, okay, like, first of all, like what are the ages? Like, what's going on? Is this consensual? Like, right, exactly. Discomfort with blurred boundaries, because again, like, I mean, I guess it's her dad's stepbrother, so I don't know. But it's the him and his son's part that would be like weird.

SPEAKER_00 38:04

That's the part that's weird, not weird, but that's the part that would take me aback, right?

SPEAKER_02 38:09

Taken aback, yeah. Um, curiosity about relational dynamics. Well, I just said that. Yeah, I would want to know the tea. And just like this environment is doing a lot.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:20

It'd like, whoa.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Yeah, yeah. So the interventions we'd use then. Okay, so intervention-wise, I'd lean heavily into attachment-based work and boundary exploration, helping her separate what she feels from what she chooses to act on. I'd also incorporate emotional literacy so she can actually name what she's experiencing instead of just acting on it. And we'd definitely be doing work around power dynamics because recognizing imbalance doesn't always mean you feel it. And that's where things get complicated. Because even though Pike wasn't taking advantage of her, like because he might be what is it, like 18 years older than her. Right. You know, oh, so he was only 36 then. So 37, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:11

Um yeah, true.

SPEAKER_00 39:13

Yeah, good math girl. Yeah, thanks. I think that's how old they are.

SPEAKER_02 39:17

Anyway, yeah, whatever. Something like that. Yeah, close enough.

SPEAKER_00 39:21

Um, but yeah, like he wasn't taking advantage of her, but he easily could have, you know, and it's like the power dynamics, it's like kind of like the silent ones that he's not acting on it, but it still stands. Like, this is still your house I'm living in for free, you know. So that's why she felt like, okay, I need to wash the dishes, I need to make sure I'm doing Cole's chores, because if he doesn't do it, we'll get kicked out.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

You know, so there was still that power dynamic, and like between the age and you know, there were just things that even though he wasn't like taking advantage of her, there was still something that she needs to be able to process. Like he does have there is a power dynamic.

SPEAKER_02 40:02

Right, yeah, yeah, right, and she's not looking at it like that, obviously, because she's somewhere else, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So my interventions sound exactly like yours. So attachment focused therapy, trauma processing, psychoeducation on boundaries and power, like you just said, and emotional awareness. Yeah, and I'm going through them so fast because it's ditto. Yeah, but I still wanted to say them for the people. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

Penelope Douglas has a type.

SPEAKER_02 40:30

She got the type.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

Yeah. I love that for her. I'm looking forward to reading more of her stuff. Like I said before, tiny times. So hard truth. Let's hit them with the hard truth, girl.

SPEAKER_00 40:45

And as usual, at some point, once rapport is built, I'd probably say something like, just because something feels safe and real doesn't mean it's the right place for you to build your life. Yeah. And you know, I can feel that so much. Like I've had things that felt so safe and so real, but like I knew that's not that's not where, like, even if bleep and bleep didn't you know, then I couldn't build my life on that knowing where that started. Right. And it's not because of that, oh, you get 'em how you lose them, or you lose them how you get 'em. Why the fuck couldn't I get that shit?

SPEAKER_02 41:25

You should ever get sayings right. That's my job.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

But you know what I mean? Like I couldn't in my heart, like, and then little baby bleep. Hello?

SPEAKER_02 41:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

What would what would that story be like?

SPEAKER_02 41:38

Oh, yeah, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:41

So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:42

Yeah, no. Bleep. And also, yeah. Bleep, bleep, and bleep.

SPEAKER_01 41:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:47

And if you're bleep and you're listening first of all. First of all, hi, bleep.

SPEAKER_01 41:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:54

Um, no, but also there was some level of like, and like I've experienced this too, right? Like availability, right? Yeah. Where it's like it wasn't too much pressure because like it was like, oh well, this isn't gonna really play out to be anything. But like I also like that not having that pressure. Yeah. You know? Um, or like with me and bleep and bleep and bleep and bleep, it might have been like, I want this to play out for me because I don't have this, you know?

SPEAKER_00 42:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:27

Um, so I feel like it was the opposite for us, as usual. Always opposites, always yin and yang. Okay, my hard truth would be intensity doesn't always mean depth. Sometimes it just means there are no other options.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

Mmm, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:44

Yeah. Yeah. Because like just because something is intense, it doesn't mean like it means what you think it means. Like it could just be that's it. You're in a situation, this is what it is, you know.

SPEAKER_00 42:57

This is what it is, and right, the opposite of that is what it's not.

SPEAKER_02 43:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

So it either you want something or you want nothing.

SPEAKER_02 43:06

You know, that's it, right.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

Because some people they'll take something rather than nothing. Yeah. Me, like, I want the thing. Like, I I will take nothing before I just take anything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:18

And I guess I will take something because I don't like having nothing.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

No, I'd rather be alone.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:25

Okay. Yeah. Let's bring it back to real life.

SPEAKER_02 43:27

Let's let's. Well, we already just did to our life. Yeah. Okay, go.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

Okay, so so, but this is where I think people might see themselves in this story. Yeah. Because it's not always about a relationship that's obviously wrong. Sometimes it's about the ones that feel right but come with a cost. And sometimes the hardest part isn't walking away, it's understanding why you didn't want to in the first place. Because, like we were saying, right? Sometimes it's better to have something than. Nothing.

SPEAKER_02 44:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:03

That's kind of like what I'm about to say right now, too. It's just just because something made sense in the moment doesn't mean it would have made sense outside of the moment.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

Yeah. Because yeah. Like Pike said, what if this doesn't work out in two weeks? Now I'm right ruining the relationship with my son forever, possibly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 44:22

So, like, guys, you need to think about if you get into these situations, like, just because it makes sense in the moment, you need to think like the bigger picture. Yes, exactly. Exactly. And the emotional whiplash.

SPEAKER_00 44:39

Yeah. Do they know about whiplash yet?

SPEAKER_02 44:42

Yeah, they do. Oh, yeah. They should. Yeah. Hello, that was uh last week. Last week. Catch up. This is your sign to catch up on all of the episodes, actually. Yes. Let me do a little promo while we're here. Okay, our favorite other segment. Uh all our segments are our favorites.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:00

But we love the pain and the plot.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

The pain, the pain, the pain, and the plot.

SPEAKER_02 45:05

Pain, the pain, the pain and the plot. That's gonna be our themes transition song.

SPEAKER_03 45:10

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 45:11

Okay, the plane the pl the plane and the plot. So for me, obviously we're talking my tier in here. Okay, I need you to like come here with me for a moment. Okay. You. I'm looking at you.

SPEAKER_00 45:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 45:24

And you, the people, if you read this.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

You, the people of the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 45:31

That's it. We're talking to you. This is a brainwashing segment. No, I'm just kidding. Okay. Um, there's enough brainwashing going on. Okay. Just come here. Okay. The night at the cabin when Tiernan is with all three of them in the same space. When Yeah, take a breath. When the tension between each relationship is no longer separate and the dynamic becomes shared. Then yeah, guy. Guys.

SPEAKER_01 46:04

Yeah, guy.

SPEAKER_02 46:05

Guys. When I say shared, I mean shared.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

Oh, I thought you were about to say when I say shared, you say experience.

SPEAKER_02 46:14

Experience. Okay, no. I do not have a shared experience to this situation. Just putting that out there. And I wouldn't tell you if I did.

SPEAKER_00 46:23

So nor do I.

SPEAKER_02 46:26

Yes. Um, okay. And the dynamic becomes shared, unspoken, and fully crossed in front of each other. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 46:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:36

First of all, what is she thinking? This is my encounter transference talking here. Because like, how uncomfortable would that be when like now everybody knows about everybody and what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 46:46

But I don't know, and I could just be wrong, but like some guys are just they don't care, you know. Like you see how they'll stand around in a circle, you know, whipping it out. Yeah. And like you're right, you're just waiting for her to like go around.

SPEAKER_02 47:03

Actually, you're right, because some men like find that attractive.

SPEAKER_00 47:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:07

Yeah. So cuck holding or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 47:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:10

Okay, guys, this just went to a different place. Let's bring it back. Okay, so the pain boundaries dissolving in real time, not privately, but collectively. Wow. Speaking of boundaries, this is literally what we were just talking about. Yeah. She's literally tied up. She's watching this man.

SPEAKER_00 47:32

This movie is so good. I always forget how good it is.

SPEAKER_02 47:35

Yeah. Like it's so stupid. I feel like people wouldn't really like it. But like, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 47:40

If you read this kind of but it's one of those good things to keep like in the background. Yeah. Like I've put this on purposefully in the background, you know, depending on who comes over.

SPEAKER_02 47:49

Background foreplay. Or whatever. Depending on who comes over. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:54

You don't want this on when your family's over here.

SPEAKER_02 47:59

Yeah, that's true. That's true. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:02

Also, like except maybe Roche Rum. Yeah, Roche. Oh, here we go. Hi, Roche. You know you love this smut. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:10

The book's probably still in the freezer. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:12

Was she reading Dent of Vipers, the second one?

SPEAKER_02 48:15

No, not Denna Vipers. Well, that's another one with five brothers.

SPEAKER_00 48:20

Um, between two basilists. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 48:23

Yeah. Split or swallow. Split or split. Book two. It's not spit. Split or swallow. Yeah. Oh, I thought you said spit. I was like, girl. Okay. Oh, this really took a turn. Okay. Boundaries dissolving in real time, not privately, but collectively. This is happening and no one is stopping it. Emotional and physical lines no longer being individual, they're overlapping. That's wild. Okay, the shift would be Tiernan removes herself from that moment. The second she realizes the lines aren't just blurred, they're gone. Like they're completely gone. And creates distance before allowing the dynamic to deepen. Like that would have been healthy.

SPEAKER_00 49:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:05

But like, hello, they're all hot.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

Sorry about it. Yeah, we got smut to read.

SPEAKER_02 49:11

Yeah, exactly. We have smut to read. The plot, the relationships stay separate instead of becoming entangled. The power dynamic shifts. The forbidden element becomes something she can step back and evaluate, but also not fun. Just saying. But I get it. Yeah. Um, the entire trajectory of the story changes because that moment is what escalates everything. So, like, that wasn't just crossing the line, that was everyone standing there while the line disappeared. Yeah. For them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:41

Yeah. Oh. Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:46

And that's a good wow and a bad wow. Yeah. I think we just realized what we really just did here with these.

SPEAKER_00 49:54

Yeah. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02 49:56

Okay, what's your moment?

SPEAKER_00 49:58

Alright, so my moment is when Jordan and Pike give in and kiss for the first time in the house. Crossing the line fully, knowing exactly who it affects and what it means. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:12

The slow burn to that though was phenomenal.

SPEAKER_00 50:14

It was so good.

SPEAKER_02 50:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:16

Ugh. And this kiss changed everything. Well, we'll talk after this part. Okay. So the pain. Attraction mixed with guilt and awareness. We both know this isn't simple and we're doing it anyway. Um, secrecy within shared space. Emotional tension building until it overrides boundaries.

SPEAKER_02 50:40

But like, how is this pain? This is all amazing.

SPEAKER_00 50:44

Yeah, this is good pain. This is good pain. But it's pain.

SPEAKER_02 50:47

Yeah, this is massive case.

SPEAKER_00 50:50

The shift. They stop before crossing that line and acknowledge the impact. Create distance instead of letting the tension escalate. I wouldn't want to see it. I wouldn't care for that story. Me neither. Like, oh, we're gonna shut it down. Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 51:05

Yeah, I close the bug. Yeah. Because like that's where Diana. Yeah. DMX list.

SPEAKER_00 51:11

Yes. Alright. So the plot, the relationship doesn't fully develop the same way. The dynamic with everyone involved stays intact. And I just want to say, like, if you can remember reading it, the you remember Cole's mom um came over and like they were all staying at the house right after they did right after this moment, like they had the kiss, and then like something happened in the house and they had to stay at his house for a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 51:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:42

And she's like, and then the girl, the ex-wife, like came in his bed, and he was like, Jordan, and but it wasn't Jordan, and it's like I remember, yeah. Yeah, so and Jordan had to sleep with Cole, and she was like, Oh, it's just for one night, or it's just for whatever, it's not that serious.

SPEAKER_02 52:02

Did she try to have sex with him too? With Cole? No, the ex-wife. Yeah, she tried to have sex with him.

SPEAKER_00 52:08

And she wrapped his like her legs around him, something, and then that's why he thought it was Jordan, but it wasn't her, and I was just like, Oh my god. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:16

Get out of here, man.

SPEAKER_00 52:17

But anyway, so messing up the black. So that's a lot of people in there. Like, yeah, you know, okay, so the story shifts from secrecy and tension to awareness and restraint, but that wouldn't have been fun, it would have just been more of a slow burn, but I wouldn't have had any faith in that slow burn, so I wouldn't finish it. Right. Because like if we're just watching him suppress, yeah, I don't know. I don't want it. Not for that long. Like, I wouldn't mind for a little bit, but yeah, yeah, it's too long.

SPEAKER_02 52:46

You're right.

SPEAKER_00 52:46

And the forbidden aspect stays emotional instead of becoming physical.

SPEAKER_02 52:51

Yeah, I could read any book for that. Yeah. I want the forbidden aspect. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:56

Yeah. So they really said this is a bad idea, and then just did it anyway. Yeah. And that's why we loved it. For them, it worked out. Yeah. Because, like we mentioned, like everyone was kind of okay with it in the end.

SPEAKER_02 53:08

Right.

SPEAKER_00 53:09

And they were true to themselves, but it didn't like it took like two years, I think. Was it two years? It was like a while.

SPEAKER_02 53:15

It was a while.

SPEAKER_00 53:16

To for I guess maybe it was just a summer. I don't know if how long it was, but it was a while because she was like working in a motel, and then at the end of the book, he comes to the motel and he's like, Yeah, blah blah, I'm here.

SPEAKER_02 53:30

Yeah, there was like a breakup and then a makeup or something, right?

SPEAKER_00 53:33

Yeah, yeah. They didn't talk since after, like, when oh, because you remember her ex-boyfriend caught them. He was like, Oh, basically, you're fucking the dad. The dad, right, right. And Cole punched him in the face, and then Pike punched him in the face, and then that's when Cole went off to the to the Navy, yeah, and then they decided like she went to stay with her sister for like two days, and he never saw her again after that until that day in the motel, yeah, which was over a year. I believe it was over a year, that was a long time, but that was a long time, but then it was like so totally worth it. So the pain was worth the plot.

SPEAKER_02 54:12

Um, yeah, I agree. Same, yeah. But like also like in real life, guys, if you're in like a forbidden love situation, just understand why you're in it, yeah, and that you're in it for a reason. And I'm not gonna say the right reason, but essentially I'm saying like the right reason also. But like don't just be in it because it feels safe or like look at the bigger picture, yeah, you know, um, and like are you hurting yourself? Are you hurting other people? But like also mostly are you hurting yourself, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:45

Um because if you're gonna suffer anyway, like you might as well suffer like with something that's actually gonna benefit exactly you or not make you a shit person, right?

SPEAKER_02 54:56

And if you're gonna have a forbidden love situation, then just make it like a quick non-emotional, non-attached whatever, and like also make sure there's not other people in the dynamic, but like sometimes you don't know because people don't share information.

SPEAKER_00 55:12

Just be true to yourself, like if you know it's fucked up, just say like I'm making a decision, like I know when I start to hurt because it'll come, then like I won't be surprised. It'll just be like, you know, at one point I told myself this was worth it, and I'm gonna stand on that. Like, so when it hurts, okay. Yeah, it was worth it.

SPEAKER_02 55:30

Yeah, exactly. Good point. That's a great way to wrap it up. Good question. Alright, so hope you all are enjoying your forbidden love. No, I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_00 55:42

But definitely, if you're having a forbidden love, you better be enjoying it. Yeah, yeah. What the hell? You can't be miserable in a forbidden love situation.

SPEAKER_02 55:49

Yeah, yeah, it's really enjoy it. Enjoy. It can be enjoyable, you know. All right, time for chaos. Chaos, many, many, many fun segments. Let's go. All right, chaos, chaos. This is the Forbidden Love edition. Let's go. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 56:09

Cross the line or just close to it.

SPEAKER_02 56:12

Ooh. Okay. Okay, first game. Don't judge us, guys, also.

SPEAKER_00 56:19

Yeah, okay, so cross the line or just dangerously close to it.

SPEAKER_02 56:23

Because some of these are gonna be a little uncomfortable. All right. So, okay, so the scale is one is harmless, two is questionable, three is absolutely cross the line.

SPEAKER_00 56:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 56:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 56:37

First one, catching feelings for someone you shouldn't while still in another relationship.

SPEAKER_02 56:50

Okay, the right answer is absolutely cross the line. No.

SPEAKER_00 56:55

No way. No way. I say, you know, if you caught it.

SPEAKER_02 57:02

I said the right answer. I didn't say my answer.

SPEAKER_00 57:06

If you caught it, then it's kind of harmless. It's not like you went out searching for it. You just caught feeling. No, let me not do that.

SPEAKER_02 57:13

No, I'm so concrete though, that's my problem.

SPEAKER_00 57:16

I would say it's questionable because, like, why is there space in my relationship for me to even feel something for someone else? Like, I know it can happen, but like, why am I open to that?

SPEAKER_02 57:28

Yeah. No, I like like I said, the right answer would be that, but my answer is questionable. Yeah. I agree.

SPEAKER_00 57:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 57:37

Actually, you know what? Forget y'all in your right answers. I'm doing off my good.

SPEAKER_00 57:42

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 57:43

As you should. And you should be doing this too and tell the truth. Okay. Okay. Emotional intimacy before anything physical happens. I think that's harmless.

SPEAKER_00 57:55

Yeah. Yeah, that's harmless. Yeah, that's harmless.

SPEAKER_02 57:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 57:59

Okay. Keeping the connection a secret from people it would affect.

SPEAKER_02 58:10

Stop, because this shit bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep.

SPEAKER_00 58:16

Yeah. I so do answer first. We'll do it right back.

SPEAKER_02 58:27

I mean, if I gotta base it on experience sometimes you gotta keep a secret. Yeah. Because it's gonna really affect those people. This is a lot of this going on in this movie.

SPEAKER_00 58:45

I feel like you're sorry. Without putting myself out there, right? Like, I thought the right thing to do, if it's not that serious, is to just keep it a secret. Right, right. But then somehow, if the person finds out Oh, it's a then it's like then you're like, okay, well, the only reason I kept this connection a secret is because it was nothing. You know? If I had mentioned it, then it would have always been on the table as oh, this is a possibility, but it's nothing. But now that someone might find out, it comes off as like you're hiding, you're sneaking, you're lying. Right. But it was the complete opposite.

SPEAKER_02 59:27

So also, like, not for nothing. The other person was allowing this to happen.

SPEAKER_01 59:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:33

So like you can't be just not you, but like in general, people, like we can't just be the only ones being accountable. Like, we know what we're doing, but like they're also enabling it. Yeah. And they're the ones who's gonna get conflict if okay, confiding in them about your current partner. Oh Lord. I'd say, um it was always harmless for me because I didn't give a fuck.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:03

No, I say this might be this might be. This might have crossed the line. Yeah, this is questionable.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:10

Yeah. I don't know. All of them questionable, yeah. I guess it depends on the situation.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:16

Because if this like, why are you because if this is a forbidden love, that is the situation, right? Like, why are you telling them about your current partner if like there's a possibility that they can use that against them? Like, if you're doing something, if it's forbidden love, like I would hope that there was no harm, like you don't want to hurt the person, which is why you're sneaking in the first place.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:42

That's true, actually.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:43

Not to not to um, what's the thing when you excuse? Not to excuse the behavior or like to approve or you know, validate or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:54

Yeah, okay, yeah, no, that makes sense actually. I'm forgetting that this is a forbidden love situation. These are all forbidden love, yeah. Okay, you're right.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:03

Okay with that. Okay. So saying nothing is happening when something clearly is, I think that's harmless because you're already doing the thing. Like, why are you gonna announce it?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:15

Yeah, it's happening. Yeah, it's happening.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:19

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:20

Okay, so our second mini-game, is it forbidden or just complicated?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:26

So, how it works. We both hear a scenario and then decide: is it forbidden? There's a clear boundary being crossed, complicated, messy, but not necessarily wrong, or it depends. Context changes everything. So you start looking forward to seeing them more than your actual partner. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:47

Um I mean that's to me a clear boundary being crossed.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:53

So you're saying it's forbidden.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:54

But also, like, that's my real answer, but my answer is complicated.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:00

Yeah. Yeah. I'd say it depends. Because context changes everything. You know, sometimes you just want to look at someone. Doesn't mean that you want to be with them. It doesn't even mean like you're lusting.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:14

It's just like a different yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:18

That's fair. Um, you don't tell anyone about the connection, not because you have to, but because you don't want to explain it. Well, I don't know, because I would tell you everything front to back, back to front.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:31

So I don't know. I feel like this um It depends. I say this, yeah. Well, if the if the context is because you just don't want to explain it, then I get that because what if I'm telling you and then you judge me? You know, like if I already know it's wrong, I don't really want to tell you because I don't want to explain that and then have to defend, say the thing out loud that I know is wrong, because then that might convince me not to do the thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:06

Yeah, that's true. I guess I'm just looking at it as like I'm telling you, and like I know you wouldn't judge me, so like I wouldn't exactly this wouldn't apply. Right, right. But like, yeah, I agree with you, and like outside of our friendship, right? I don't know that I would want to tell anyone and explain anything because for that same reason.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:25

You're right, yeah. Okay, okay. All right, you feel emotionally closer to them than the person you're actually with.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:33

Oh that's complicated, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:37

I agree, it's messy, but not necessarily wrong. Yeah, because you can't help that.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:43

It happens.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:44

You feel emotionally closer, that's because somebody's putting in work, that's because you're having conversations or they make you feel safer or whatever. That's not your fault.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:54

I didn't ask for that. They're just doing it. And they're just doing everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:58

It's thrown in the cauldron. Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:02

Okay. You find yourself justifying the connection before anyone even questions it. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:12

That feels like it's forbidden.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:15

It feels like you know it's wrong.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:16

Yeah, exactly. You're because you're justifying it. Yeah. Yeah. Forbidden.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:21

Yep. Okay. Um, you're not doing anything physical, but if the opportunity came up, you're not sure you'd say no. Mm. Listen. Well. If I'm in that situation, the opportunity's gonna come up and I'm gonna do what needs to be done.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:42

I'm honestly not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:44

There I wouldn't have to risk my situation. Like, if this is forbidden, I'm going all in.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:50

It's a forbidden love of like playing it safe.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:53

Yeah, we're not encouraging this behavior, guys. But remember the context. It's a forbidden love already.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:00

And if you're already doing something, why not?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:03

Yeah, it's already forbidden.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:05

Like can you imagine losing everything you love for something you didn't even do anything for?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:13

Yeah, exactly. The risk gotta be worth it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:18

Oh man.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:19

Love that. Okay, I agree with you 100%. Okay, you feel like the connection only works because of the situation you're in. Oh Lord. It's complicated.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:35

Yeah, I agree with that. I agree because it's all about the situation. Like if things were different, this might not work. You know?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:46

If sometimes this forbidden love is just to satisfy an in in in the moment, whatever. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:54

Cause like if it's like an office romance, you and your boss, some shit, and then like he's like fuck. I love you so much, I'm gonna quit. Now you're just some man on my couch.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:04

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:08

You know, like no.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:09

Now you're just another man. There's no forbidden quality to it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:14

Temptation, like no flirting with destiny or slow burn or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:20

Oh my god, like that's slow burn, right? Yeah. Like you're passing each other and you're like flirting, and then it's just like the build-up, you know. Oh, it's so exciting. Okay, here we are. Yeah, this is the problem. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:33

Um, you start adjusting your behavior to create more opportunities to see them. Oh Lord.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:38

Oh my god, shut up. I can do this all the time.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:43

Waiting up, staying up, going to sleep after work, so I would be up. Not like on some pick-me desperate, but it's like, if I know I'm about to have a long night, let me just adjust my situation. Now I'm up at night.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:57

Or like starting fights intentionally for there to be makeup sex. Yeah. Yeah. Or like I'm talking about starting fights intentionally with your partner so that like they are mad at you and then you can go do like whatever. Yeah. That's so toxic.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:16

I don't yeah, that's a different type of toxic. Like, I've never really cheated on someone. I've just put myself in situations, you know, like the opposite, I guess. You know, by accident. I got it. So like I feel like I would I I would be too nervous.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:37

Okay. That's fair. I'm just going to do it. So it takes a skill. Can't relate.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:41

No, it takes a skill.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:43

It takes a skill.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:45

Yeah, certainly.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:47

You tell yourself this isn't a big deal while thinking about them constantly.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:52

Girl, you in love. Yeah. Stop it. It's over for you. It's over for me. That's forbidden. No feelings. Mm-hmm. Um, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:02

He's a birthday. Oh yeah. Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:08

Okay. Okay. You realize the connection would hurt someone, but you still don't want to let it go. That's complicated. All of these are complicated.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:21

All of these are complicated, but I think that one's forbidden. Yes. It's forbidden. Because if you know it's gonna hurt someone, yeah. We're not gonna hurt people. Yeah. But you know, it's been done. It happens. And it wasn't coming from a bad place because you can still care about the person it's hurting.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:46

Yeah. Well, we're just gonna end that right there. Yeah. Guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:50

Don't hurt people you love, don't hurt the people you hate, don't hurt yourself.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:54

Yeah, exactly. Don't hurt.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:57

Just flirt.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:58

Don't hurt, just flirt. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. And be mindful.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:03

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:06

Alright. Is it teaser time? It's teaser time. It's teaser time. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:11

Okay, next session, we're switching it up a little. Yeah. We're talking about psychics. But not just the background characters.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:20

The ones who deserve their own moments.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:22

The ones who are always there.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:24

But don't always get the credit.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:26

And we're putting them in the spotlight next episode.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:29

Yes, guys. So like think about when you were maybe in the not in the spotlight or you were a sidekick and you deserved your moment.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:39

You know, I think right now, like this is like the most sidekick in the spotlight moment is Jordan Woods. She was Kylie's background girl. And now, did you see like all her bachelorette? Like she's at um she's in St. Where I was just at.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:57

St. Martin. St.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:58

Martin and St. Bart's and those things. She's doing her thing and she's like in the spotlight. Like she's getting married. Did you see her ring? I didn't. I haven't seen it. Oh my god, you need to catch up. Okay. But yeah, so that is like a sidekick in the spotlight moment if I've ever seen like someone come out of the shadows of someone else. Yeah. Oh, I love when it happens.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:18

Yeah. Alright, we're gonna talk about it. Yeah. All right, that's it for this session. See you next week.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:24

We want you to be a part of this world with us. Send us your book recommendations, character obsessions, or topics you want us to cover.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:31

You can find us on Instagram and TikTok at once upon a session pod.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:36

Or email us at info at onceuponassessionpod.com if you want to share thoughts, suggestions, or just scream about a plot twist with us. So are we charging for this session?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:48

Emotionally, always. See you next session.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:54

Same couch, same chaos.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:56

And maybe see you at Bookong. Yeah, we'll be there. We'll be there. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:01

Bye.