Session 11: Mommy Issues

Why do maternal relationships shape us so deeply—and why are they so hard to untangle?

In this episode of Once Upon a Session, we break down the psychology behind “mommy issues”—the ways early maternal dynamics influence identity, attachment, and the relationships we find ourselves in later.

From Little Fires Everywhere to The Plated Prisoner, we explore how love can blur into control, how protection can impact autonomy, and why these early bonds leave such a lasting imprint.

Because sometimes the way we were loved… becomes the blueprint for everything that follows.

Disclaimer: We’re licensed therapists, but not your therapists. This podcast is for reflection and conversation, not a substitute for therapy.

✨ Follow Once Upon a Session for new episodes exploring stories, psychology, and healing.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Sometimes the person who's supposed to make it savers is also the one who shapes your things. And sometimes that means sometimes it's a lot more complicated than that. This is once upon a session. Where two therapists are their TBR pile to treat the plants. And every story becomes a session. And I'm the one who knows those early influences matter. And I'm the one figuring out how they carry for. Just a quick note before we dive in. We're both licensed therapists, but we're not your therapists. Everything we share here is for conversation, reflection, and maybe a little inspiration. But it's not a substitute for therapy. If you're struggling, please reach out to a mental health professional who can give you the care and support you deserve. Now that you're all checked in, have a seat on our couch. Hey guys. Welcome back. Welcome back. Hope you enjoyed our special episode. Oh yeah. Star Wars. Yeah. Can't wait. Mm-hmm. Can't wait to drop that. Yeah. There was something I was like, I don't want to forget to say. And as soon as we start, I forgot. That's okay. But anyway, what's been going on with you? Um, nothing much. Same old, same old, honestly. Just work and whatnot. But this is the real work here, like we said. Um, what am I reading? I'm on Queen of Shadows. Oh, yeah. But I haven't been reading for the past three days because I've been doing my homework for today's episode.

SPEAKER_03 1:50

So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Yeah. We have a lot to talk about here. Yeah, me either. I haven't been reading much, but I'm on Queen of Shadows too. Okay. What's going on with life? Um, life is life is good. But I'm back on the psych ward. Yeah, she's back. No med search for you. Well, it's still maybe. I don't know yet. I don't know how they're gonna do it. Okay. How does it feel to be back? It feels really good to be back. Yeah. Um, yeah, it feels like home. Don't ever leave again. I won't. I'm so wild. I was thinking home in my head and you said home. The psych ward is home. It is. That's interesting. In the nicest way possible. Okay, so today we're talking about mommy issues. And since it's mot oh, I see it. Since it's Mother's Day. We wanted to look at both sides of it. The love, the complexity, and how those relationships actually shape who we become. And shout out to our mom. Happy Mother's Day. Happy Mother's Day, Mom. Thank you for everything and for all the things that I'm still healing from. No, I'm kidding, kidding, kidding. But we'll get to it. Am I? We'll see. Yeah. Okay. And happy Mother's Day to all of our listeners who are mothers and you know, maybe identify as mothers. Yes. I love that. And you're a mom. You're a dog mommy. Yeah. Yeah. And I am not a mom any longer. But we'll get to that in a few episodes. Okay, so before we get into the characters, we have to talk about the psychology behind this. Because mommy issues get thrown around a lot. But there's actually a real foundation behind it.

unknown 3:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

A lot of this starts with early attachment. Which is basically how safe and supported you felt growing up. If that relationship felt consistent and secure, you're more likely to feel safe in relationships later on. But if it was unpredictable, controlling, or emotionally distant. That's where we start to see patterns show up. Things like people pleasing. Or emotional withdrawal. Or feeling responsible for other people's emotions. And it's not always negative either. Right. Sometimes it's protection, structure, or survival. But those patterns don't just stay in childhood. They follow you into your relationships, your identity. And how you see yourself. Yeah. And like I just want to talk really quickly about culturally how that plays a role too. Because in certain cultures, you know, you don't get a mom who has all the warmth and love and emotional support. And like sometimes it's just what they can provide for you. You know, that's the way they show their love. And I think sometimes we can take that, you know, as something else and trying to turn it into like, well, I didn't get you didn't emotionally support me, or like I didn't need all this other shit. You know, and it can become a conflict. Just saying. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. So cultural parts play into that. Also, I think like um how our moms were shown love or whatever from their moms and how that shapes them. And it just kind of sometimes continue like generationally. Yeah, that's usually the conversation like that you'll have, and you'll you'll finally say it, like, oh mom, you don't hug me. And she's like, Oh, well, I didn't grow up around hugging, you know, or like you try to tell her, like, tell me you love me, you know. And she's like, Well, we didn't really say it, we just understood it. So and they pass that down, but like, I feel like this generation, or at least my generation, or me, like we're breaking that. Yes, we are. Yeah, we are, and it's wild because I keep seeing these videos like on TikTok popping up for me of like like Guyanese women like coming forward finally and like saying talking about like all the generational whatever, and they're trying to break it and they're bringing awareness and like not other people are feeling comfortable like talking about it, you know. So good for that. Yeah, yeah. Okay, now let's bring this into fiction because this shows up everywhere, and not always in obvious ways. Sometimes it's subtle, it's in how characters love, or how they protect, or what they feel responsible for, and today we're looking at two very different dynamics. Yeah, because this isn't one size fits all. We're looking at how different relationships with mothers create completely different outcomes. So you have characters shaped by trauma, and characters shaped by control, expectation, or structure, and both can impact identity in really strong ways, even if they look completely different on the surface. So we're gonna break down how these relationships show up and what they actually mean underneath. Alright, let's get into it. Okay, who's on our who's on your couch today? Sorry. I'm bringing Mia Warren from Little Fires Everywhere. Yes, and I this was my assignment, and I just finished it the. This is why she hasn't been reading. Yeah, this is the excuse for the thing. This is the excuse I'm going with. But like I'm so glad it's fresh in my mind because you know me, I don't remember, and I don't know when it went in one ear and out the other. Yeah. Thank you so much. So this is perfect timing. Yes, and I'm bringing Slade Ravenger from the Plated Prisoner series, which are two very different versions of mother-child dynamics. Both show how much these relationships can shape relationships. Relationships. I want some relationships. Yeah, I'm hungry. Both show how much these relationships can shape who you become. Alright. Alright. Why don't you go first? Because I cannot wait to talk about this. I know I called you and talked about it briefly, but like we have a lot to talk about. Little Fires Everywhere by Celeste Ng is a character-driven novel that explores how different parenting styles shape identity and how even well-intentioned choices can have unintended consequences. Little Fires Everywhere takes place in Shaker Heights, a carefully planned suburban community where everything from the homes to the lives of its residents is designed with intention and order. At the center of that structure is the Richardson family, led by Elena Richardson, who prides herself on doing everything the right way, especially when it comes to raising her children. Like, you know, the sticky notes and the it's a lot. It's too fucking much. Yeah. That sense of order is disrupted when Mia Warren and her daughter Pearl arrive. Mia lives a completely different lifestyle, moving from place to place, working as an artist, and raising her daughter outside of traditional expectations. Where Elena values stability and predictability, Mia values freedom and identity. As the two families become increasingly intertwined, tensions begin to rise, not just between the mothers, but within their children, who are each shaped in different ways by their parents' beliefs. When a custody battle emerges within the community, it forces everyone involved to confront a central question. What actually makes someone a good mother? So, like we discussed a little bit earlier, like that this book has in the limited series with Carrie Washington and um Reese Witherspoon. Yeah, it's just so many mom dynamics. Like the most I've ever seen in anything. Me too. Yeah. Me too. It was like at first it's the main characters, right? But then there's like the community person, and then there's like their relationships with their mom, and then like stuff. Oh it's just like on so many levels. The daughter, the daughters, right? Yeah. Babies, all kind of things is happening. So much. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about Mia. Mia Warren presents as calm, intuitive, and deeply grounded in her values. She's not a traditional parent and she doesn't try to be. Instead of prioritizing structure or stability, Mia prioritizes identity, both her own and her daughter's. She's emotionally attuned and clearly connected to her daughter, but that connection has limits. Mia is selective with what she shares, and that selectiveness feels intentional. It's not that she's incapable of closeness, it's that she controls how much of herself is seen. At her core, Mia values autonomy. She resists systems, expectations, and anything that feels like it might confine her. That shows up in the way she lives, moving from place to place, avoiding permanence, and maintaining a level of independence that allows her to stay in control of her narrative. But underneath that independence, there's a protective layer. Many of Mia's decisions are rooted in emotional safety. There's a sense that stability for her doesn't feel secure. It feels risky. And because of that, she leans toward movement, flexibility, and control. Her internal conflict really centers around one question: how do I protect my child without losing myself? And that shows up in her parenting. Mia offers her daughter emotional depth, creativity, and freedom to be herself. But at times that comes at the cost of consistency and full transparency. So when we look at Mia, she's not avoiding connections, she's managing it, she's deciding what to share, when to share it, and how close people are allowed to get. So would you say like that's kind of how you saw Mia? Like exactly. Yeah. Okay, good. Absolutely, yeah. So the presenting problems, emotional secrecy, instability in environment, difficulty balancing autonomy versus stability, avoidance of full vulnerability, protection-based decision making, core beliefs. If I tell my full truth, I could fully lose everything. Stability comes at the cost of freedom. I have to protect my child even if it means withholding. I can only rely on myself. So some treatment goals and objectives, increase emotional transparency, balance autonomy and stability, strengthen attachment security, and process trauma-driven patterns. Like we would identify origins of fear-based decisions, increase insight into behavioral patterns, you know, increase her emotional availability. Um, and then for interventions, trauma-informed therapy for sure, cognitive restructuring, attachment-based work, narrative therapy, which I think would be a huge one for her because like she has justified what she did. Yeah, you know, in the name of protecting her daughter, and I get it. Yeah. But like we need to, yeah, yeah, yeah. And stabilization, stabilization planning, expected outcomes, increased emotional openness, improved sense of safety in relationships, more consistent parenting structure, reduced reliance on avoidance and secrecy, better integration of identity and stability. So when we look at Mia as a case here, she's not lacking love, she's navigating how to give it without losing herself.

SPEAKER_03 13:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

And that outcome is actually the actual outcome. So that was perfect.

SPEAKER_03 13:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

But yeah, thank God man. You know, at first when I was watching, we're gonna try not to give anything away here, of course. At first, when I was watching, I thought that like she wasn't who she said she was, and in a way, yes, but also no, it's a totally different, it went a totally different way. Um plot twist, yeah, huge plot twist, and like Elena. Ugh, I'm just I was so sick of her. Yeah, and her fucking stupid, we gotta be perfect. Oh, you're perfect, don't tell me bullshit because you're perfect. I don't want to hear it. Yeah, you know, and then how she treated her Izzy. Oh, I hated how she treated Izzy. Poor Izzy. Yeah, yeah. I want to know what Izzy is up to based on the the limited series. I know. It kind of leads to like a book or something, so hello. But we'll get more into like Mia's like what things will be like because I think um when we're looking at Mia, we're also because they played such a close, you know, relationship in in this series, it's I think we should also look at Elena in a light. But I know we'll get to it. Yeah, so interestingly, you know, I think you were asking me when we were talking about my case too. You were like, oh, are you putting that person on a couch? And I was like, oh wait, she put the mom on the couch. Yeah, I put the person with the mommy issues on the couch, yeah. So it's crazy. We always do an opposites, and I love it. Perfect. Yes, exactly. All right, so who's on my couch? Well, Slade Ravinger, aka King Rot. I'm sneaking in. I'm doing maintenance, just ignore me. That's okay. I know you love him, and we miss him. We miss you, King Rot. We're coming back. You just got too much to read. Um, so Slade is from the Plated Prisoner series by Raven Kennedy. Um, and Slade is a powerful ruler in Aurea, known for his ruthless reputation and commanding presence. Beneath that exterior. I'm sorry. I don't know, not the giggle and blush. Beneath that exterior, his identity is deeply shaped by a traumatic childhood marked by abuse at the hands of his father, Stanton. Stanton. Was that his dad's name? I guess so. I'm sorry. Was that his dad's name? Sounds like a Caribbean name. The groundbreaker, Stanton. Yeah. Wow, that's funny. Okay, at a young age, Slade witnesses extreme violence towards his mother, Elora. Hated it. I know. Uh I'm not even gonna say read the book. We're gonna stop saying that now, but also read it. Um, at his mother, Elora, and ultimately intervened in a moment that changed everything, tearing a rift between worlds to save her. Since then, his life has been defined by one core mission: pr protecting her at all costs. His relationship with his mother is rooted in survival, devotion, and trauma, making his protective instincts both deeply loving and deeply complex. Oh my god, do you remember reading that? I sure do. And it was the most recent book that we got all of that information. But I can't couldn't help think couldn't help. No, I couldn't help but think about Vader, like Anakin as I was, you know, experiencing this in the book, and then hearing you say it just now. Like I just pictured, even though like I saw it going on, like I also pictured Vader, um, or Anakin as he was like getting his mom up, and like it's just yeah, I didn't even think of that. Yeah, and now I'm thinking of both of them, and I'm traumatized. Thank you. Thank you. It's your segment. That's true. Okay, and obviously, guys, I guess I should have said this before. Like, that were like that might be sensitive content for some of you because you know, people can relate in that way. So we're we're here. Yeah, definitely. Take care of yourself. So for presenting problem behaviors, hyper protectiveness towards his mother, identity rooted in protect or savior role, emotional reactivity when safety is threatened, difficulty trusting others to maintain safety, control-based coping strategies, um, and hyper-vigilance and threat sensitivity. Yeah, for sure. Some core themes: protection versus control, trauma-bonded attachment, fear of loss, identity shaped by survival, hyper responsibility, and safety versus autonomy. Um, and he was just like, if if I don't protect her, no one will. And yeah, you know, I think I don't know if I'm Because his brother was younger, yeah. I was gonna just bring up his brother, right? He's younger. His brother is younger, and then like actually when they got older, it appeared that Slade, from what I read at least, wasn't I don't not that he didn't care about his mom, but his brother was the one checking in on his mom more. Yeah, and then his brother was kind of mad at him for not checking in more. But Slade is busy, like But do you remember when the um when he brought her to his mom? Yeah, I was like, oh my god. I love that. Oh, it was beautiful, and his mom she couldn't talk. Yeah, she couldn't talk, or she didn't talk. We don't know if she can't, yeah. Oh she can see though, right? Yeah, she just couldn't talk. That's what it was. Like she gave her approval without seeing it. It was beautiful, it was so beautiful. Yeah, okay. Oh, yeah, I missed that book. Okay, treatment goals, interventions, process unresolved childhood trauma. Yeah, absolutely. Actually, forget the rest of this because that's it. Um, no, but separate identity from protector role, increase emotional regulation and response flexibility, challenge belief that safety requires control, build trust and shared responsibility for safety, and develop identity outside of survival patterns. And like you guys know, if you've been through things like this, you become like what you're surviving, you know? And it's hard to know anything outside of that. So you have to unlearn that and like build a sense of self all over again. Yeah, and it depends on what stage in your life you're doing whatever moment you're in. Yeah, you can be carrying stuff like this for years and years and years, but yeah. So what progress would look like um recognizes when protection becomes over control, responds to threats with regulation and send instead of reactivity, allows others autonomy without fear-based interference, builds identity beyond protector role. I think that's probably like the most significant for him. Um actually I lied. Trust that safety can exist without constant vigilance and engages in relationships without hyper responsibility. Yeah, because now he's doing the same thing with Orin. Yeah, exactly. So yeah. That book actually, now that I'm talking about it. That book is so good for like just trauma. Like, you know, yeah, just like helping uh resolve trauma and grief and all of that. Yeah. Alright, the outcome. Well, we didn't finish the series yet, but as of now, Slade's growth is not about becoming less protective, it's about understanding when protection is rooted in love versus fear. His shift happens when he begins to recognize that his role as a protector was born out of necessity, not identity. Healing means learning that safety doesn't have to come from control and that he's allowed to exist beyond the moment that shaped him.

SPEAKER_03 21:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

Yeah. Ugh, we love him. Love him. Yeah. Can't wait to get back to the book. Yeah, because that thing happened where we left off. Yeah, but you know, I think we read. So much of the book that I was starting to like, it was too much gold finch for me. Yeah, whatever. It was too much. Yeah, no, I agree. We we needed a little break. Yeah. Cause now look, and I'm glad that we both agreed that we needed a break. Yeah, yeah. Because like I know you started like the first couple of was it chapters or whatever of the next book, and I was like, um, I'm not ready. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm glad that we did take that break. Cause like now look at us. We're like anticipating the rest. And this is a better feeling to walk into something like this. Exactly. All right, treatment team meeting. Clipboards out. Because these mother child dynamics don't stay in childhood. Oh, yeah. As we were just saying. Yes. I started in that dance. Okay, let's go. If they walked into our office. If Mia Warren actually walked into my office as a client, my immediate reaction would be that I'm not getting the full story. She presents as calm, grounded, and very self-aware, but it feels intentional. Like she's showing me exactly what she wants me to see and holding the rest back. In those first few minutes, Mia would come across as intuitive and emotionally attuned, especially in how she talks about her daughter. But underneath that, I'd notice how there's still a layer that isn't being accessed. Attachment-wise, she gives avoidant leading energy, not in the sense that she doesn't care about connection, but in the sense that she controls how close people are and how close they're allowed to get. And a lot of that looks like personality, her independence, her mobility, her resistance to structure also reads as a trauma response. It feels less like preference and more like protection. Yeah, you know, that doesn't sound too far off from Slade, but in the reverse, you know. Um but if Slade walked into my office, um I might want to like ask him, like, not right away, but I would get the sense that he is protecting someone and like he's gonna walk in strong, controlled, you know, intense, maybe hyper-aware. I don't feel like he would be forthcoming right away. Um, he would be guarded. Um and I would be very distracted.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

But yeah, I can just see him. Yeah, yeah, of course I would. I I wouldn't break hip up. But yeah, no, I'm kidding. Um because I need the deeds. Yeah, yeah. I could just see him. But I feel like he would also be forthcoming in some ways, you know. Um I don't feel like he would be completely a hundred percent guarded. I'm trying to think of like compared to Nesta. Like Nesta's not talking about nothing. No, I feel like he would be willing to kind of see what's going on here too. Yeah, yeah. Alright, what they say versus reality. If Mia were describing her situation, she'd likely frame it as wanting to protect her child and live authentically. She might talk about not believing in traditional systems or needing to maintain freedom and independence. But clinically, what stands out is something deeper. There's a strong underlying fear of loss and exposure, and a belief that being fully known could lead to something being taken away. So the issue isn't just that she values freedom, it's that vulnerability feels unsafe. And the way she manages that is through control, specifically controlling what parts of herself are visible. The disconnect is that what she experiences as protection may actually be creating instability and distance in her relationships. Yeah. Which it definitely is. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's so good to like she. I hope, well, I was gonna say in episode two, I hope she gets therapy. You know what I mean. Yeah. What would Slade say? Okay, Slade would say, I'm just protecting her, or I have to be the one in control. And the reality would be protection is rooted in unresolved trauma, obviously. Fear of loss is driving behavior, and identity is fused with his survival role.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Yeah. And it really is. And it just kind of falls into your lap, like as you see him, like as we get to know him, and I figured once we got to his land, you know, we would start to understand more about him. He was like in a different place, and yeah, but oh god. Yeah, I remember how like in the tent in the camps, just how like when we were first kind of introduced, like to the banter and yeah, and not to Slade Ravenger. God, no, even that is amazing. Yeah, yeah. We're not spoiling things today, apparently. We're doing a great job at not spoiling things today. Oh yeah. Okay, what would we work on first? The first focus would be attachment. Everything about how Mia functions seems rooted in how she connects and what she allows in that connection. From there, I'd be looking at emotional regulation and trauma processing, especially around her need to control outcomes and avoid full vulnerability. There's also a piece around helping her sit with discomfort because she doesn't necessarily avoid feelings, but she does manage them in a way that keeps her from feeling exposed. So the goal early on wouldn't be to push her to disclose everything, but to build enough safety that she doesn't feel the need to control as much. Yeah. And I think, you know, part of building that safety for her is maybe coming out and reaching out to the family like she was trying to do. Because then she could be like, you know, just go ahead and live your life. I'm not gonna take your 17-year-old from you or 15, however, the pearl was. I agree. Yeah. What about Slade? I'm I'm like replaying that show in my head right now. Oh, yeah. Just because it's so fresh. And I'm just thinking about like how like even when they were in court and she had to decide, like, do I help this other woman save her child and lose mine potentially? Like, yeah, and the thing that Elena said to her, she was like, How important is it? Like, how are you fighting for someone else's child? Is it more important for you to fight for someone else's child at the risk of losing your own?

SPEAKER_03 28:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

And then that's what shook her. She said she she made a decision. She's like, No, it's not worth the risk. I'm not gonna do this. Yeah, yeah. But like she already did a lot for BB, she paid $30,000 for that. She did, but then also like carrying the guilt of like, oh my god, if I had stepped up, but yeah, she made the right decision. The pain was worth the plot. But what would you have done? Like, do you think you would have like, okay, if she came to you, if BB came to you and she's like, hey, show me right now where she is. You can't just tell me you found my baby and you're not gonna show me where she is. So, what would you do as a friend? Would you and kind of friend, right? They only work together, yeah. Yeah, whatever. So, would you give her the keys to your car and be like, this is the address, knowing that it's that baby's first birthday party? What would you do? I don't think I would have interrupted that whole situation with the family, but I would be like, Listen, I can take you at another time, but not like when this is going on. Yeah. But I get like, no, but this is me, right? She gotta manage her shit. I get I'm just breaking news to you, and you're like, you know, anxious now you want to see your baby. Yeah. But I would have not done it at the cost of like disrupting this other family who's been taking care of the baby too. I agree. Yeah, definitely perfect. Yeah. I love how you said that, yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah, alright. What are we talking about? Oh, well, we'd work on first. I mean, I would do straight trauma work because we it we just have to in this moment. We have to go there first. And then I would do emotion regulation and identity exploration and all of that. But we gotta address the trauma because this is what's leading him to be this way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

That's it. Mm-hmm. Okay. Counter transference. Well, Slade walked into my office. Oh man. I'm telling you, I'm gonna be here and I'll be in there somewhere in the closet. Something you better shift in something. I'm gonna be like, hi Slade, I'm an intern. Is it okay if I sit in on this session? Oh, yeah, you could be my intern again. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

Perfect.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

Okay, so working with Mia, I'd probably feel a lot of respect for her independence and how intentional she is as a parent. At the same time, I likely notice some frustration, specifically around feeling like I'm not getting the full picture. Because if I'm talking to her and like she's not giving me anything, like I can tell the difference between resistance and like this is it, like I'm just wasting your time. You're wasting yeah, let's not do that. But so there might be an urge to push for more disclosure or to try to figure her out, which is something I'd have to be mindful of clinically, because with someone like Mia pushing too fast would likely reinforce her need to hold things back, you know. So it's like I would get nowhere with that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Alright, so with Slade, besides his Slade-ness just dripping. I can't even ravaging. His robbing. But like also his like I'm just picturing him coming in with his crown, you know that crown, and then the black veins just like, yeah. And then I'm gonna be like, Are you gonna rot my furniture? Please to control Oh my god, what if I got him like worked up during trauma work and he rotted everything? Oh that can be there, yeah. But then he can like unrot it. Yeah, he can unless okay, perfect. But I would honestly definitely be like, Oh my god, this poor guy, like he went through this whole thing. I would have, I think, too much empathy and lose focus. Yeah. And want to like just relate to him too a little bit, because you know, whatever. Yeah, I can see that. Yeah, um, but I would respect, I would have respect for his loyalty and devotion, concern about his intensity and control, protective feelings toward his younger self, like I just said, and awareness of how justified his fear once was, because yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:43

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

Alright. Okay, the interventions I'd use, I'd primarily pull from attachment-based and trauma-informed approaches. Narrative therapy would also be really helpful, especially in allowing her to tell the story in a way that feels safe and integrated. Early sessions would focus heavily on building trust, moving slowly, validating her need for control, and gradually exploring the impact of secrecy rather than confronting it directly. There would also be a focus on emotional literacy and helping her expand her tolerance for being known, but immediately associating that with risk. Yeah, I think those are perfect for her. Yeah. Yeah. Right. In terms of Slade, trauma-focused therapy, obviously, number one, while doing some nervous system regulation work so he doesn't rot the whole gland. Um, cognitive restructuring around control and safety, and this is what all come after, obviously. Attachment-based work and boundary differentiation. I need you to work on some hypnotizing shit and be like, you love Vanessa Renee. You love Vanessa Renee. Go find it. But you don't like Slade. I love Slade. What do you think? No, but you love Rip. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Wait, so Rip isn't a part of this therapy? We're not else bething him? No, we're not else bething him. Damn. That's just Slade. Tell Slade to get out of here so I can see Rip. Well, okay, I will. But I don't know the wait, was he ripped? I don't think he was ripped when he interacted with mom. It was Slade. But remember he was becoming ripped throughout. Right. But I don't know if he was in rip form when he was interacting with mom. I thought it was just sleep. Whatever. Yeah. I guess it doesn't matter. No, it doesn't. When he was younger, when he was with his mom, that's when he was learning and he was getting his skill right. He was becoming I'm talking about later, like where we left off. But yes, I see. You're talking about the beginning. Got it. Gotcha. Yes. Well, that's actually a really, really good point, though, that you brought up because he was also dealing with his own changes that he was going through as he's trying to protect his mom, figure out what's going on with himself, deal with his dad, then his little brother. Like, man, he was carrying. Who was his brother's name again? Riley. Nope. It's some right, right. Riot, riot. Riot is riot. Isn't there another riot? There's another riot in the center. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I wanna I need to read that. She only read one book. Yeah. Okay. Don't don't don't get Roche started. She's like Roche up on it. She mounts against started. All right. Okay, hard truth. Okay. At some point, once rapport is established, which is like an always, the conversation would shift towards impact. The way you're protecting your child is also shaping how safe she feels in the world. Because the intention is protection, but the experience may include inconsistency, uncertainty, and emotional distance. Like, hello, you know what I mean? Like, you're doing all this to protect your secret, but like this is how Pearl is growing up in the world. She doesn't even know the secret. She's just like, oh, this is my bubble. Like, this is what I have to do. And yeah. Oh my god, and to learn the secret from someone else. Oh my goodness. Oh my god. That's rough.

SPEAKER_01 36:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

What's your hard truth? My hard truth for Slade. I'm gonna say Slade.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

But my hard truth for Slade would be being the segment rap. I need another po. Hold on. Po, bra. Yeah, we should take breaks from time to time. We're at work. I'm already too high. Okay. Drive two pier, right? Drive? Two pier, one pier? No. Okay. We'll walk. We can walk and soak and we'll be hungry when we get there.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

My hard truth for Slade would be being the protector became who you are, not just what you do. You don't trust things that can be safe unless you're in control. Yeah. Yeah. But when you were like this. It was just in case you were gonna say something important and I didn't want to cut you off. Like, see, you don't know the lengths of shit that I go to protect you. And that's in next week's episode. Oh no, yeah. Okay. Let's bring it back to real life. Okay, I think this is where a lot of people can see themselves. Not necessarily in Mia's exact situation, but in the pattern. This shows up in people who rely in the pattern. In the pattern. This shows up in people who rely heavily on independence, who struggle with vulnerability, or who feel like they have to control what they share in order to feel safe. Especially in parenting, where the intention to protect can sometimes override the need for consistency and openness. Because at the end of the day, it's not about whether there's love, it's about how that love is experienced. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Just kind of like what we were saying, right? Like they were doing it and doing it. Yeah, they were doing it. And like what you also said at the beginning, it's like this could be, you know, it's not about whether there's love. When you speak about like the Caribbean or the just whatever it is. Yeah. Um I was whatever. Let me make it clear. Yeah. When we speak about culture, the question there isn't about whether there's love, it's about how that love is experienced. Because yes, our parents might not have gotten love shown in the ways that we would like to be shown, so they didn't pass that down and we had to learn, and now we're teaching our parents. Yeah, but it's like back to this it's not about whether there's love because we know there's love, but it's about how we experience it. Exactly. And that's a beautiful full circle moment. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that's how you bring it back to real life. People take a lesson. Um, so for me, in my case here, and in real life, also for you guys listening, for all of us, protective instincts can come from real love, but also from fear. We often confuse control with safety. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And honestly, now that I'm thinking about my own self, yeah. I feel like when I feel in control of things, I feel safer. And I think also my mom might have felt that way.

SPEAKER_02 39:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

If she was in control of things, I would feel I would be safer.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

And I think that's something that she like had to do because that was her way of making sure I was safe. Yeah, and it's not. I was gonna say it's like also uh the person that's taking control is providing you that safety. Right. So I can see easily how that can be confused, you know, sometimes. Meanwhile, I'm thinking she's trying to keep me safe, and I'm like, you're trying to control me. Yeah, you're not letting me live life because again, culturally, right? Not the same coming here as a child and growing up here. You know, she just spent all her time trying to keep me safe, and I'm so ungrateful. I'm so sorry. No, I'm kidding. I'm very grateful. Yes, you are very grateful. Yeah. Alright. The pain and the plot. Oh, yeah. Let's do it. Alright, so the moment for me was Slade's confrontation with his father at the moment he rips a divide between worlds to save his mother. Yes. Yeah, girl. You remember it. Remember it kind of. I loved it. Yeah. I loved it. Especially because the rift was just new to me, kind of. Like, like I got it from throwing a glass, like when they but that was like they walked in the word thing. Like, you know, like she walked through that portal. Yeah. But this is just different to me. Like he just ripped, yeah. Yeah, but I feel like that's what I'm also getting at the end of Crescent City, even though it feels like Crescent City isn't so much a portal, and it's more of a rip because like how? Yeah. And then also, not only that, but in fucking Gods and Monds. I knew you were gonna. Yep. It's like we're all of our people right now are in this. They're in these in-betweens. The in-betweens. These rips. Yeah. I wonder what that's about. Like, if we just happen to be maybe we're on the in-between right now. I think so. We are actually between life and death. We're in the in-between. This is true. Okay. Oh my god. But yeah. Nice. And like also, like, yeah, that was great. Also, like Slade's out here making rips to protect people, and some of y'all can't even send a text back.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

Like, get it together. Back to fictional men, real estate. Yeah. Okay, so the pain witnessing extreme violence towards his mother, fear of losing her, forced into a protector role at a young age, trauma fused with power and responsibility, and survival-based decision making. That was his actual pain. The shift, intervention or escape before escalation, shared responsibility for safety, Slade not becoming the sole protector. The plot, well, there would be no rift between worlds, diff different developmental path, identity not rooted entirely in trauma, more balanced attachment patterns. He didn't just protect her, he built his entire identity around making sure that moment never happens again. Yeah, I wouldn't want the story without him creating the rip.

SPEAKER_01 43:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

And I it hasn't even ended for like we didn't finish the book. Yeah, so we don't even know what's coming. But if something's coming, then the pain is worth the plot. Yeah, it has to be. Exactly. Yeah. So I love how he protected his mom. Yeah. Uh like even from when he was a child when his dad was abusing her. Um But also like as an adult, like now, like he's making sure that his mom is protected. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Same. Alright, what you got? Alright. So for Mia, my moment is when Mia makes the decision to keep Pearl and build a life on her own terms. Yeah, choosing independence and secrecy over stability and full transparency. Yeah. That wow. Like, I get she was going through a lot. But like agreeing to carry someone's baby or agreeing to give people this child, and then you run off with it and it's not yours. I mean, it is technically hers, but it's that family's that you've signed paperwork. This belongs to that family. So yeah, just the thought of her, you know, she was going through something so intense that she decided to leave. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I don't I'm not excusing it. I'm just saying, like, I can I can understand where she was at. Yeah. But it came at such a cost, right? Like the way they had to grow up. Not grow up. But yeah, the way they had to grow up and go through life. And yes, she is an amazing artist. But she could have been she could still have been an artist without this, but maybe she wouldn't have been inspired. I don't know. But also if she never ran away, I was just gonna say that if she never ran away, she would have seen her love, her um, her partner, yeah, before she passed away. Yeah, and she would have known that she was sick, and you know, she would have had that photo already, so then she would have been able to say, like, hey, I am so sorry, I have to, you know, pay you back, and then she would have had the money. Like, I don't know. Yeah, no. I'm also just thinking about how she had to write the letter and tell them, like, I had a miscarriage and like how that affected them, like just everything. Yeah, but also the bookslash show wouldn't have been great without any of this. Sorry, you didn't even get to I'm so hot, I don't know what I'm doing. I just been rubbing my eye. Sorry, okay, so okay, the pain. Lived experiences that taught her safety comes from self-reliance, not systems. Belief that being fully known could lead to loss of loss or control, learn to protect herself by controlling her narrative, struggles with trusting others enough to be fully vulnerable, carries the weight of decisions that require her to constantly stay in motion. The shift. Mia chooses autonomy, but not without cause. She builds a life centered around identity and freedom. Her parenting becomes rooted in emotional connection rather than structure. She allows closeness, but only within limits she controls. The plot, that choice shapes everything about Pearl's upbringing. It creates a dynamic where there is deep connection but inconsistent stability. Pearl is given space to be herself, but not always a sense of predictability. And because Mia chooses secrecy, there are parts of their relationship that remain incomplete. Trust exists, but not fully. Safety exists, but not consistently. And like, I just want to say this is so true because when I when I watched the show, it was like as soon as Pearl found out about that stuff, the way she started talking to her mom, she started cursing. The the respect went out the window. Out the window. And then safety exists, and then so did their housing situation because Elena was like, get the fuck out of here. Yeah. Tomorrow. I want you gone by morning. Yeah. Like, yeah. And then it really fucked up. Yeah, and but then it just forced her to do what she should have done in the first place. In the first place. Like exactly. You did all of this. You could have easily told that woman, I do believe that the family would have understood if this young girl had said to them, you know, yes, I agree to carry this child for you. It's such a blessing, right? And then she has a change of heart. It can happen. I'm not saying that I'm, you know, I'm happy it happened. None of that. Right. But it could have been avoided. But we have to take into account that the family could have had a different response than she would have thought.

SPEAKER_02 48:32

Right.

SPEAKER_00 48:32

What if the family said, you know what? You're young, go ahead and keep your baby. I know how it must feel as a mother to have to give away a baby, so don't you know, and she could have been okay. She would have been fine. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, if Mia chosen stability over autonomy, Pearl might have had a more predictable life. But she may not have experienced the same level of emotional depth, creativity, or freedom. So the question becomes, what does a child need more to be seen or to feel secure?

SPEAKER_03 49:01

You know?

SPEAKER_00 49:02

Oh shit. That's a great question. Yeah. So I I it's hard for me to answer if the pain is worth the plot here. I'm trying to answer the question you just asked. Oh, yeah. What does a child need more to be seen or to feel secure? I think I think if a child is seen, they can feel secure from being seen. Well, an Izzy, right? Oh, yeah. If Izzy would have been acknowledged, it's and then it's the type of acknowledgement. Right. Because she sure as hell acknowledged Izzy every day, all day. Isabel or whatever. And it wasn't the right kind. And that's because she had her own issues. Yeah. You know, and she had her own mommy issues because the only reason I think Elena wasn't with the guy who's Izzy's real dad. Um, and that's why she hates Izzy so much because she cheated on her husband. Yes. But that stems from her mommy issues. Because if you remember when her and that guy were in Paris together, she was like, Oh, my mom would kill me. Come on, like, she has this whole life set up already for me. We got papers at the newspaper, and you know, the jobs at the newspaper, whatever. And he's like, No, I want to stay here a little longer. I want to go to New York. I want to she couldn't get through that because of her own mommy issues. So it's like, and what does she do? Repeat the pattern. And she repeated it. And look at how her kids are her children. Also, so interesting that she was giving her other daughter all the positive attention, and she's the one who's doing bullshit behind her back. Meanwhile, Izzy was just like, just act like I exist. And it wasn't even like Lexi just had one little mistake. Like she did the thing, she did the thing with the paper. Like she she was over there really messing up. And then when she told her mom, and her mom was like, Shut up, no, you're perfect. And then, like, hello? Yeah. To finally stand up to your mother and say, like, I'm not perfect, and then she's like, No, you are perfect. And like, it's like you finally got to that point and it meant nothing. Yeah. Oh. So she's just out here and validating. But I love how all the kids came together and you know. Oh, yes, me too. Did that thing. Okay. Yeah. Where are we? Fun? Is it time for gay? Is it time for yes, it is.

SPEAKER_03 51:20

It's time for gay.

SPEAKER_00 51:22

All right. Alright, so this first game is who sent this text? So we're gonna pick a character and well, I guess it's self-explanatory. Never mind. Just keep up. We're leaving the night. Pack light. That's Mia. Yeah. Yeah, they're always on the move, huh? Okay, don't get too comfortable there. I feel like that could be Elena, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Some roots become cages. That sounds like something Mia would say. It does sound like something. Pearl would say, actually. I feel like I wanted it to be something with Slade because of like the roots. But no, like, yeah. Okay. But also, like, no, yeah, no. I'm thinking cages because cause Orin. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, but no. But I also think Izzy might say that. Um, because she, I feel like, would have felt the most trapped in that home. But then also Lexi, because of the expectations that her mother put on her, like their roots, like, so she's she's privileging from them. Yeah. She's privileging. She's like it. We're keeping it.

SPEAKER_01 52:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 52:44

Next.

SPEAKER_02 52:46

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 52:47

How do you say it though? I don't know. She's she's she's experiencing, she's benefiting from the privilege. Yeah. There we go. There we go. She's benefiting from the privilege, but it's also really weighing her down. Like it's causing her to mess up in her relationships, in her friendships, everywhere. Yeah. In her physical. It's keeping her caged in that one environment where it's acceptable.

SPEAKER_03 53:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:13

Yeah. Um, I didn't tell you because I was protecting you. Oh, I think this could be all of that. Yeah, everybody. I agree. I agree. Home is wherever we choose. That's everyone from every book we've ever read. Yeah, that is true. Yeah. Right. Okay. Uh, you don't need their approval. Not my mom. No. But um This sounds like Mia talking to Pearl about the Richardsons.

SPEAKER_01 53:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:51

I could never hear Elena saying this because she's all about approval. I know this looks unstable from the outside. Probably Elena. Yeah. Also, Mia, right? Also. Because she did literally look like she was living out of her car when we first met her. And but then it was like a shot directly to the um grocery store, right? So like you see, okay, she's not like Yeah. I forget the word efficiated or whatever when you don't have any money. You broke. Yeah, but I don't want to say broke. But um I want to ask chat real quick because I I it's gonna bother me and I don't want to lose focus.

SPEAKER_02 54:39

As for someone who doesn't have any money, the word you're probably thinking of is broke.

SPEAKER_00 54:43

If you want something to be, yeah, because when we first meet her in the show, she's driving in a car like that doesn't look like it's from that neighborhood, you know, and we see her sleeping what appears to be her sleeping in the car, so we go from that straight to a shot of her in the grocery store so that we see she's not destitute. Yeah, you know, yeah, so it might look unstable on the outside, but she really does have the money, and then she has paintings worth over half a million dollars. She does have the money, yeah. It just looks like that. Okay, uh, trust me, I have a plan. That's Slade. Uh that's Slade. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Art should disturb people. Oh, that's gotta be Mia. Yeah. I did what I had to do. Anakin. What have I done? Um, I did what I had to do with Slade. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I think Mia too. She felt like she had to do that. And Elena, well, that was her excuse. Be careful around families that look perfect. That literally was you very true. Yeah, that's me. I'm always but like be careful with these couples that look perfect and these families that look perfect. Yeah, yeah. It's me. You're asking questions, I'm not ready to answer.

SPEAKER_01 56:11

Mia.

SPEAKER_00 56:12

It's laid to I feel like we can start over again, Mia. Yeah. Always starting over again. Yeah. That's good. I agree. She needed it. Uh love sometimes looks messy. That's all of them. Yeah. Because the love is messy. Don't mistake comfort for freedom. Oh. Wow. Damn. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe I can see Mia saying that to Pearl. Like when she goes over to the Richardsons. Yeah, exactly. Because they don't really have no freedom. They look comfortable. Exactly. Yeah. Okay, so these are some funny text messages I think Mia would send. Okay, let's what you got? Use cash.

SPEAKER_01 57:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:14

Um, delete this thread. Yeah. Meet me out front in five. Yep, because they always go in somewhere. No names and text messages. Because she's keeping secrets. Yep. We move at dawn. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Alright. Let's continue. Okay. Um do not embarrass this family. Elena. Yeah, hell yeah. Feelings are expensive distractions. Elena again, I feel like. Yeah. You were raised for more than softness. I don't know. I don't know either, because none of them.

SPEAKER_01 58:01

Yeah, I don't I don't.

SPEAKER_00 58:03

Well, I guess I guess Mia could say it just because I feel like she would say a lot of things. Yeah. Okay. I expect better from you. I expect better from you. Can sound like Slade too, I feel like. Yeah. Yeah, I can hear Elena saying that. Control yourself. Not Slade, because he can't control himself. I guess Mia and um Elena. Ellen. Ellen, Aylon. Aileen Gallius. Well now she has control. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Weakness invites predators. Well. Shit. Maybe rot. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:50

Yeah. That's it. You always wanted too much affection. Me. Yeah. Same. Next. Power first, emotions later. That's slayed. Yeah. For sure. Your name opens doors. Behave accordingly. That's Elena. Elena. Yeah. I did not raise you to be ruled by desire. That's slayed. Yeah. Yeah. I could hear like his mom telling him that, you know. Yeah. You confuse kindness with strength. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 59:25

I don't know either. I really don't know that one.

SPEAKER_00 59:28

Because I don't know that any of them would say that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. If they fear you, they respect you. All of them. Yeah. You're becoming sentimental. None of them. I gave you everything necessary. I feel like Kingfisher would say that. Yeah. Like when she was trying to do the gold or do the quicksilver. And she's like, I don't know. I gave you everything. Yeah. Yeah. That's my mom today. But I think, um, yeah, I think I was gonna say Mia. Um, because she did technically give her the the bear. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:11

Love is leverage if used correctly. I I actually love that. I believe that. Mm-hmm. We're just gonna leave that quote as a quote because we're not, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:27

Alright, some savage, funny ones. I feel like Slade's mom might say if we knew she talked. Well, she can text it. Oh yes, you're right. It's a text, uh pathetic. Pathetic. I can just see that. Unimpressed. That was your decision. Handle it. Now time for our second.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:52

Yes, yes. Cause I'm selling stuff here. Mm-hmm. Alright. Now time for our second game. Mother knows best. Or does she? Alright, this is how you play it. We're gonna read the phrase and decide. This is coming from loving wisdom, control disguise as care, generational trauma, actually great advice, emotional manipulation, or a mixed bag. I love this. Alright. You guys play along too, as usual. So let's start with some like relationships and dating. Okay. Uh no one is good enough for you. Oh ma'am. I feel like this could be control disguised as care.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:41

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:42

But I mean, maybe it is actually great advice, you know? Yeah. Because if you're telling that to someone, your mom is telling you that, right? Like, I feel like she's just trying to tell you to love yourself before you love anyone else. Like, no one's but it's gonna come off as like no one's good enough for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:03

So maybe I take that back.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:05

Yeah, I I agree with control disguises care. Yeah. Yeah. I can tell he doesn't really like you. Um, I think that's emotional manipulation. I agree. I agree. Move in with him if you want, but don't ask me for help. I think that's actually great advice. Like, move in with go ahead, but don't ask me to help you. Like, see, I just took that as such insult. No, that's great advice. No, you know, I just took it. Wanna be grown, pay your own damn bills. Okay, we'll see what you want. You know, yeah. But to me, it's like, well, do what you want, but don't ask me for nothing. And I'm like, but but but so that's basically her saying, I don't think it's a good idea, but you're grown, and I'm gonna let you make those decisions, but don't ask me for help. I guess I just heard it's actually the most fair thing to say to someone, right? Okay, you're right, actually. You are. It's just that I never heard it so that way, you know what I mean? Yeah, so yeah, okay. Um, men only want one thing, that's generational trauma. Yeah, I agree, but also like maybe, yeah, it's true. But they're speaking in absolutes, yes, that's true. Yeah, yes. A woman should always have her own money. That's great advice. Yeah, I agree. I think so. Yeah, okay. You're too pretty to settle for that. That's so toxic. But also, like the way I mean it is, I think it's a mixed bag because there is like that good advice, that great advice, but there is that emotional manipulation there too, and then maybe even some control disguises care. Yeah, yeah. Especially if you're like a body image mom, like you know, moms who like always have to make sure their children physically look perfect or whatever, yeah. Or it could be loving wisdom too, you know? It could be yeah, so yeah, definitely a mixed bag. Yep. I don't trust anyone who moves too fast. I think that's great advice. Yeah, yeah, or it could be trauma. Yes. Actually, you're right. So uh it's a mixed bag. Yeah, there we go. Okay. If he wanted to, he would. Great advice. I mean, yeah, yeah, 100%. If he wanted to, he would. I say that all the time. Yep. To people. Loving wisdom and great advice. Yep. Mm-hmm. All right, some independence adulthood segments. Okay. You don't need roommates at your age. No. I mean, at my age, yeah, you're right. I don't need roommates at my age. I think that's actually, I mean, okay. If we're looking at a deeper thing, right? Like if there's a reason you need roommates, like for financial whatever, then yeah. But other than that, I would say that that's loving wisdom because if you're privileged to enough to be able to live on your own, I believe that that's something that you need to do in your life. I agree. Yeah, absolutely. Why pay rent when you can stay home? That's my mom every time I go see her. Um, I think that's a little controlled disguise as care. I agree with that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You're not ready to live alone. I think this is a mixed bag. Yeah, same. Because it could be a good one. Because you really could not be ready to and it's wisdom, you know. Exactly. Yeah. And some people don't need to live alone. This is very true. But you need to experience it. I believe that it's essential. Yeah. Some people can't either. They panic. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, okay. I just want to know where you are. That could be a mixed bag to me. I agree. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Because it could touch on most of those. Depending on like if there's exclamation marks, like that could be like emotional manipulation. Like, I need to know where you are right now all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Or like just you know, actual great advice. Like, hey, someone should have your location just for safety. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Okay. Call me when you get there.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:45

I I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:48

I say emotional. I mean mixed bag. Yeah, I think mixed bag too. Cause like also, if you're telling me in my it depends on where you are in life. Oh, this is independence adulthood.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:00

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:01

Okay, yeah. You know, I just feel like yeah, you're right. Mixed bag. I'm not gonna argue it because uh we'll be here all day.

unknown 1:07:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:11

No one will care for you like family. That's a lie.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:14

Yeah. That's generational trouble. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:18

And control disguised as care. Yep. Next. Um you're doing too much too soon. That might be, because that's me sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:33

I say a mixed bag on it.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:35

I know you better than you know yourself. That's a mixed bag for me. Yeah, personally. Yeah, yeah. Alright, appearance image. Oh god, I'm about to get triggered. Okay. You'd look prettier if you smiled. Triggered. Which I'm I'm just annoyed already. Yeah, no. You're not leaving the house dressed like that. Yeah. That's control. Control. Yeah. You should lose a little weight. My fucking favorite.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:11

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:12

Every time there's a big thing. That's a mixed bag. Yeah, every time it's a family gathering or something. Oh gosh. Um, that's a mixed bag for sure. I might not take it as wise advice because I'm offended. But you're right. It's a mixed bag. You look tired. I probably am. Mixed bag. Yeah, mixed bag. Pretty girls have options. That's a mixed bag for me, too. Yeah. People judge what they see first. I think that's uh that's a mixed bag, but like I can really see how that's great advice. Yeah, same. And generational trauma. And loving wisdom. Yeah. But also emotional manipulation. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, sorry, mixed bag. Okay. No, no, no, you're right. You're right. Um wear something more flattering. Oh gosh. I think those are all mixed bags. I think when it's appearance and image, for the most part, it'll be a mixed bag because you don't know where someone's really coming from. I agree. Yeah. I agree. Okay, so success and achievement. I only push you because I know your potential. Um exactly. I think so. Yeah, I agree with that. Because also, like, how hard are you pushing me? You know, like, is this because you're trying to control me? Or is this because you're trying to manipulate me? Like, you know what I mean? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:04

Um, average was never an option for you. Oh gosh, that's wrong. Yeah. This could be I think this is a mixtap. I think so too. Yeah. All of these are mixed bags, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:22

Let's see. Rest after you've accomplished something. That's wise advice.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:29

Loving wisdom and great advice. Yes. I agree. Okay. You always quit when things get hard. Yep. Restrain in order. That's um, that's good feedback that sometimes people need to hear. You should be further along by now. That's manipulation. I mean, it could be good advice though, like great advice. Yeah, it's like mixed. Because it depends on like what you're if you're saying in life, okay. Well, we can't measure that. Yeah. But yeah. Yeah, I agree. Oh, well, I guess we are because we're talking about success and achievement. Yeah. That is what. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. I brag because I'm proud. That's fine. That's fair. Yeah. That's well, loving whatever. Wisdom. You have too much talent to waste. I think that's pretty positive. That's actually great advice and loving wisdom. Boundaries and guilt. Oh boy. After everything I've done for you, that's emotionally manipulative. Yeah. I'm sorry about it. Like, who's forcing you to do anything? Yeah. These are all gonna, we're all gonna relate to these because it sounds like Caribbean parent things. Caribbean parents would say. One day I won't be here. My mom says that all the time. My mom too. I guess I'll just do it myself. Yeah. My mom says that too. It's just our moms. You changed. That could be a mixed bag. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I agree. You used to tell me everything. That's manipulative. Yeah. Cause relax. Family should come first. That's manipulative. I don't like it. Yeah. I'm your mother, not one of your little friends. I mean, it's true. That's good advice. It's loving, it's caring. But it's also hearing it being said. Exactly. Yeah. I never said that. Oh no. No. That's manipulation. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Emotional wisdom and surprisingly good. Okay. Never beg anyone to stay. That's good advice. Yeah. Peace is expensive. Pay for it. Yeah. Love that. Protect your credit and your peace. Yeah. I guess. These are all um uh great advice and loving wisdom. Yeah. Yes. Um learn to leave the first time. Oh my god. Yeah. If I had learned. People show you who they are early. Yeah. Lonely is better than disrespected. A. Oh my god, yeah. Men. Don't build someone else's dream and neglect your own. A men. We'll keep it all wise advice, and we're telling all of y'all too.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:41

All these things. Okay? Pay attention. Okay, now we got some funny ones. All right. Bring me a grandchild. That's generational trauma. Generational trauma. Yes. Generational drama. Uh-huh. Who raised you? That's a little manipulation. Yeah. Because you did. Because you did. Yeah. Right. Okay. That friend is jealous of you. Generational trauma. Yeah, exactly. Why would you say that? But also maybe good advice if it is. So mix back. Yeah. Well, you know how they say like moms like sense and know everything. And it's true. So maybe we need to like listen to them more. Yeah. Uh you think you know everything. That's good advice. That's good advice. Yeah. Yeah. I did at one point think I knew everything. I still do. It's fine. I was your age once. Really? Yeah. That's manipulation. Yeah. In generational. Yeah. Yeah. You'll miss me when I'm gone. Yeah. It's true. Must be nice. I think that's manipulation. Yeah. Interesting. Dot dot dot. That's scary. Because they know something. Yeah. If anybody says that's gonna be freaking out. Alright. Alright. So what's the takeaway from mommy issues? Listen, guys, sometimes your mom's just doing what she knows and has learned. And she was not fortunate enough to have the time to reflect and change her ways. I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying sometimes our parents just do what they know.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:40

And sometimes we gotta give them a little bit of a break. Not too much of a break. But yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:47

Or mom, sorry. And when your mom tells you, like, I don't know. My mom sometimes like she'll just know what's happening and she'll wait for me to say it. So that connection that your mom has with you is real. Moms just be knowing. I think because they say that you're a part of you from when your mom is pregnant with you. Mm-hmm. They um like a part of you stays with her. So she does, like, if you want a I can't remember what chemical it was, but if you want that, like, and you call your mom and it like lights up inside of you. Like I read an article about this recently. Yeah. I just don't remember. Yeah, there's some gene or something. Something. But yeah, I agree with what you're saying. Like, our moms are literally just girls, they are doing this for the very first time, just like we are, and they're just a little further along than us. So, yeah, of course, take that information, you know, with something, right? You know, like at least consider it. But there are moms who aren't necessarily having the best interests of their child or adult child or whatever, and then you know, you have to protect yourself in those situations, like don't just say, Well, this is my mother, so I I have to kind of you know put up with it. Right. Like, you have to protect yourself. That's the only thing you have to do. Absolutely, and listen, and we always say this when we're doing trauma work too, is like other people create the trauma, but it's your responsibility to address it and heal from it. And that closure, again, you may not get that closure that you're seeking, even from a parent. And I know it's hard to hear that because you're like, Well, they're my parents, they should love me, or whatever. Yeah, but you know, sometimes it doesn't happen that way, and you have to just grow to accept that and have the relationship that you can have. And the only thing that you're in control of is how you react to something, so how you choose to move forward from that, it's that just changed your entire life. Like I hate to say the victim mindset, right? Yeah, because it just feels so negative now because of the way people have been using it. Yeah, but like if you do have this mentality that woe is me, my family isn't perfect, my mom doesn't love me, you know, my mom doesn't show it, whatever it is, you still have a choice on how you move forward with that, you know. Yes, it can be sad, yes, it can be something that you grieve, but you can't sit in that forever because you'll never grow. Right. Yeah, well said, all right, well said. Well, now speaking of relationships that matter, oh yes, it's time next week. We're shifting from where our pattern starts to the relationships that grow with us. We're talking about best fucking friends, yeah, yeah. The ones who see it all, and somehow stay anyway. Yes, and this is right in time for like our first so when we begin. Yeah, exactly. When we first like actually hung out outside of work as friends, and it was around this time of the year, like and there's the picture right there. Oh my god, our very first night out holy shit, yeah. Wow, oh wow, that was a great full circle moment, universe. Thank you. Okay, anyway, get your best friends ready because y'all are gonna have to listen. We thank you. Watch and put your bestie on to us. Y'all love it exactly. Do something as a best friend, yeah. All right, that's it, guys. We'll see you next session. We want you to be a part of this world with us. Send us your book recommendations, character obsessions, or topics you want us to cover. You can find us on Instagram and TikTok at once upon a session pod. Or email us at once a pod. Or email us at info at onceuponassessionpod.com if you want to share thoughts, suggestions, or just scream about a plot twist with us. Right. So are we charging for this session? This was emotionally draining, so yeah, we're charging today. Yeah, we'll see you next session, but only if you paid. No, we're just kidding. No, we're not. Okay. Send us money. Just kidding. We're not taking money yet. Was that last episode or next? That was the last one. Okay, and you get it. I'm right. You got it. Same couch, same chaos.