Session 12: Best Friends

Some friendships feel bigger than the story itself.

In this episode of Once Upon a Session, we explore the psychology behind deep friendship, loyalty, and the people who become part of our identity through connection.

From Ron and Harry in Harry Potter to the Padavano sisters in Hello Beautiful, we unpack what makes certain relationships feel unbreakable—and what happens when love, jealousy, grief, and growing up begin to complicate those bonds.

Because sometimes the relationships that shape us most aren’t romantic at all.

Disclaimer: We’re licensed therapists, but not your therapists. This podcast is for reflection and conversation, not a substitute for therapy.

✨ Follow Once Upon a Session for new episodes exploring stories, psychology, and healing.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Okay, wait, be honest. Do you think best friends are supposed to last forever?

SPEAKER_02 0:16

I want to say yes, but I also think people change and sometimes you grow together and sometimes you don't.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

And that doesn't mean the friendship wasn't real or important.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Exactly. I think best friends are the people who see you through different versions of yourself. And somehow still say, Yeah, you're not allowed to not be my best friend forever.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Also, this is what's about a session. Where two therapists turn their TBR pile into treatment plans. And every story becomes a session. I'm Vanessa.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

And I'm Teresa.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

And I'm the friend who will absolutely tell you the truth. And I'm the friend who needs a minute before I admit you are right.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

That's so true. Yeah. Yeah. Here we are. Welcome back, everybody. Just a quick note before we dive in. We're both licensed therapists, but we're not your therapists. Everything we share here is for conversation, reflection, and maybe a little inspiration.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

But it's not a substitute for therapy. If you're struggling, please reach out to a mental health professional who can give you the care and support you deserve.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Now that you're all checked in, have a seat on our couch. Welcome back. Yeah, here we are. What's up, best friend? Hi. Alright. Well, you can already guess what we're talking about today. Yeah. Best friends. And the check-in is gonna be about us. Yeah. Alright. Well, they already know where we met.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Yeah, y'all already know our business a little bit. So let's do. Can we do the pain and the plot of our friendship? Yeah, let's start.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

Perfect way to start. Love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Okay. You think of a moment.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

I think of a moment. Okay. I had I didn't plan this, so this is a little bit more. No, neither did I.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

So it's gonna just take a second. Mm-hmm. Okay. I think I got my moment. Oh, I have a moment. Okay. Okay. So my moment is when I told you that I don't think Bleep is the right person for you. Okay. That's so funny because that's where I went first. Yeah. But I changed it. So I'm glad.

SPEAKER_03 2:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Yeah. Because that could have went, well, I guess. Mm-hmm. Well, we won't go through all the things, right? Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

This was an ongoing conversation for many, many years.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Yeah. So yeah, it could have you could have taken that the wrong way and then said, you know what, fuck you. I don't want to be like, you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

I don't want to have that friend who's gonna like just criticize and judge my situation and not just let me do what I want. Which, like, no friend should let you just do what you want. They should be honest.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So if that shift had been like that, then we wouldn't be here right now and we wouldn't have this podcast. And like, who knows what we would each be doing right now. But yeah. Yeah. So I think maybe the pain was worth the plot. A thousand percent. Don't even hesitate to do that. This is our first confirmed pain versus the plot because our characters in the books they can't talk back and say, yeah, the pain was worth it. That was your pain. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:38

It was absolutely worth it. Nice. Okay, thank you. Okay. So, like I said, I was going there too, actually, the same exact thing. But I went with what if I had never agreed to read a book with you that day in Barnes and Nobles. Oh no. None of this would exist first.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

No, it wouldn't.

SPEAKER_02 4:01

Yeah. So I just feel like if I had said, you know what, eh, I'm not reading. I don't.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Yeah. And you easily could have, you know, it wouldn't have been, I don't think it would have been the end of our friendship at all.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

No, not that.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

But it would have, it just wouldn't have left the opportunity there for something like this to grow.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

And I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

I don't know what I would have been doing if I hadn't started reading. And I feel like this level of our friendship would have never existed, and that's really sad to me. Yeah. Because, you know, as much as we have our like stuff that we can talk about without our shows. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But the reading just brought us together on another level. And I'm so happy I read that book that day. And then shortly after we read Akatar, and our whole fantasy began, and here we are. So this podcast wouldn't be happening because there would be no books to talk about. Yeah. So was the pain worth the plot? Well, it wasn't pain to me. Yeah. Honestly.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

It was pain to me to get you to that point, I think. Yeah. And I mean, like, just while we're here, I remember the whole thing with you like not being able to watch two shows at once. Oh, yeah. And not being able, so then I was like, okay, there's no way I'm gonna get her to read two books at once. But I think that's where we are now. Like, I think the last couple of reads, you were like, Oh, I think I could be reading this other book, you know, too.

SPEAKER_02 5:42

Like and it's just even shows now. Like, I used to have to complete a whole thing before I even started watching something, and like I'm so grateful because like now I can be in the mood, like whatever I'm in the mood for is what I'm going with. Not like I'm just doing this because I need to finish it. So I love that. Yeah, so it actually helped my anxiety and my like OCD tendencies a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Yeah, good. So yeah, it was worth it. The pain was worth the plot.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Okay, wow, yeah, I love that. Yeah, okay. Well, here we are. Alright, so today we're talking about best friends, yeah, and not just the fun, easy, we laugh all the time kind, but the real kind, the ones where you grow together, support each other through hard things, and sometimes have to work through differences because friendships are relationships too, and they take effort, communication, and trust, just like anything else. Why are you fanning?

SPEAKER_02 6:42

I didn't burp.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

Okay. That's the second time today you thought I burped. It's a natural reflex.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

No, if I burped, you'll know because I'll go.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

How do you know that's the only reason I fan? Because it's the what else are you fanning at right now? Alright. Um, so what actually makes a friendship feel like a best friendship?

SPEAKER_02 7:07

A lot of it comes down to emotional safety, like feeling seen, understood, and accepted. Right. And also consistency, knowing that person is there for you. And there's usually a shared history, which is huge because you've seen each other through different phases of life. Yeah, you have.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Yeah. And it's like just that. Um, just now when you said, because fuck, what did you just say? Oh my god, hold on. Yeah, when you were like consistency knowing that person is there for you. Like, can you just imagine? Like, I know I'm gonna wake up in the morning and I'm gonna like text you at some point between when I'm up and when I'm at work or like on my way to work or something like that. And it's like, if you don't text back right away, it's never a second thought, like, oh, is she around? Like, what's going on with her? Am I gonna hear from her today? It's like, yeah, I just know you're gonna be there, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:02

And it's almost like when we don't do that, it's like we notice the we notice it missing. Yeah. I think it was like a couple weeks ago, you were like, hello, like I we haven't texted all day, something's wrong, you know.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

So yeah, yeah. And psychologically, best friendships often mirror attachment patterns.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

Yeah, how you show up in close relationships tend to show up in friendships too. So things like communication, conflict, reassurance, all of that plays a role. And yeah, because like I had like codependency things, right? And I brought that into our friendship because like we've talked about it before. And yeah, it's so true that it shows up, yeah. It shows up everywhere, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Yep, and friendships can get complicated when people grow at different paces, or need different things at different times, and that's where tension can come in. Not because the love isn't there, but because the dynamic is shifting, and the strongest friendships aren't the ones without conflict, they're the ones that can move through it.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

Yeah, I don't I don't we've never had like a huge fight, and I don't ever want to have one because I would be so anxious. But I feel like no, seriously, because then my codepensity, oh my god, what did I do? I gotta fix that. I got you know, that would drive me crazy.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

But I feel like it would only be a fight if you're fighting for something. Like, yeah, so if it's not I'm not saying it should be a fight, I'm saying like if it's a fight, why be anxious? Because if you're spending the energy fighting, that means you want that. Yeah, no, that's it. So it's like, what's the loss? Like, what are you anxious about?

SPEAKER_02 9:42

Like losing something or yeah, losing a friendship.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

Yeah, but if it's I don't know, I guess I get what you're saying, but I'm saying like if it's worth fighting for, then I wouldn't in my head think that we're losing that if we're both fighting for it.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

That's so interesting because I'm looking at it like if I fight with you, you're gonna be mad at me and not want to be my friend anymore. Okay. That's so interesting. Wow. This is why we're best friends, though, because it's always the opposite.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. How does this show up in fiction?

SPEAKER_02 10:14

A lot of best friend dynamics and stories are built on shared experience. Like trauma, history, or growing up together, and that creates really strong bonds, but also really complicated ones. Because the deeper the connection, the higher the emotional stakes.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

And we see a lot of friendships where things go unspoken. Which feels very real. Because sometimes people assume understanding instead of actually communicating.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

And that's where things can get messy.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

Has there ever I'm putting you on the spot now, you could do the same. Has there ever been something that you wanted to tell me that you were like, I don't know if I should say that right now, or I don't know, or you've always just said what you had to say to me? I feel like you have. Yeah, I don't know. I don't feel like you ever, yeah. But you know what I appreciate about you is that you will give me some feedback in a way that like like when other people give me feedback, I'm always taking it as a criticism, right? But like you say stuff in a way that I wish everybody would learn how to communicate with people where you're like you're giving feedback, but like you're doing the DBT thing, like you're being balloting and you know, and yeah, dot dot dot. Yeah, seriously, yeah, no, absolutely, because you know, I take everything as a criticism because whatever mommy is she's that was last episode last week, yeah, but yeah, yeah. Was it hard for you to like tell me that so and so wasn't like the right person for you just because like that went on for a really long time into our friendship?

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Yeah, that was a kind of that was a kind of a big part of our friendship. Thinking it back, yeah, thinking it back. It was like so like thinking back to like when we started actually becoming friends more than just intern supervisor, coworker, whatever. I that was the same time like you two were moving in. Right. So when I started to see the red flags, and when I saw the signs, I was just like how soon did you see them? Like almost instantly.

SPEAKER_03 12:23

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Yeah, almost instantly. But that is I feel like the decision I made initially not to say anything, and I've told you this before, is that initially I've I saw it, but then I'm like, okay, either she sees it too and she's okay with it, and that's how she wants to live her life, or she's in denial because there's no way she's not seeing it. So those were my two options for you, but I didn't know you well enough yet to say that because I didn't know you, and I don't know how you would take that, and it's not my business, you know. So, like that I think shaped how our friendship started, where with me like just really trying to take it in and understand who you are, what you like. So it became I feel like a deep connection from the beginning because like I was so open to understanding yeah what's going on with you because you showed me nothing but like you taught me like when our first interactions, and it's just like okay, yeah, I'm taking in and I'm yeah, I don't know. It was just a no, I get it.

SPEAKER_02 13:23

Yeah, I get it. No, and like honestly, and I tell you this all the time, if you and you it was gentle you gently reminded me. It wasn't like the fuck, what's wrong with you? You stupid, why you s you know, yeah. It was like, all right, but like I get it, it's your not it's your life do whatever you want, but it's your life, but just remember, like you're the prize, yeah. And had it not been been for you beating that into my head, not beating it like you know, yeah, like I said, you were gentle, I wouldn't have hung on to that idea, yeah. And I wouldn't be here today, so thank. Yeah, thank you. No, thank you. Alright, okay, well, who do we have on our couch today? Well, I'm bringing Ron Weasley and Harry Potter. Whoa. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

I'm bringing the Padovano sisters from Hello Beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

And I clearly have to read that book.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

But yeah, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

These are very different friendships. Very. Yes. Alright. I'll go first. Alright. You went first last time.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 14:39

Let's do it. Okay, alright, guys. Harry Potter and Ron Weasley. And if you don't know who they are, you know what I'm gonna say. Just get out. Log off. Logg. Okay, so for those of you who don't know, Harry Potter, the series by J.K. Rowling, follows Harry, a young wizard navigating identity, loss, and destiny alongside his closest friends. At the center of the story is his friendship with Ron Weasley, a loyal but often overlooked companion who grows up in the shadow of others. Ron and his siblings, too. Yeah, speaking of shadows of others. Alright, this isn't about siblings, this is about friendship. Okay, so Harry Potter, the series by J.K. Rowling, if you guys don't know, um, follows Harry, a young wizard navigating identity, loss, and destiny alongside his closest friends. At the center of the story is his relationship with Ron Weasley, a loyal but often overlooked companion who grows up in the shadow of others. He sure does with all them siblings and Hermione and everybody. Um, their friendship is marked by deep loyalty, but also moments of jealousy, insecurity, and emotional distance. Despite conflict and separation, their bond ultimately reflects the complexity of real life friendships. Imperfect, tested, but resilient. And I agree. Okay. Presenting problem behaviors, and this is gonna be like Harry and Ron coming into therapy. Yeah. Um, but yeah. Ron's insecurity in comparison to Harry, Harry's emotional withdrawal and independence, difficulty communicating through conflict, um, sensitivity to perceived imbalance in friendship, and internalizing feelings rather than addressing them.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

Core themes, compassion versus self-worth, loyalty versus insecurity, identity within friendship, and um feeling seen versus feeling secondary. Core beliefs is like Ron, if I'm not Ron would think like if I'm not special, I don't matter. And Harry is more like if I rely on people, I'll lose them. Um, because Harry got a lot to do, as y'all know. Is that becoming my thing? Yeah, I think. Didn't I say C3P? Somebody had a job, not C3PO. Mandalorian. Yeah, he had to go to work. He had a job. Okay. Uh treatment goals, interventions, increased emotional awareness and expression, address insecurity in comparison patterns with Ron, so this would be individual work, reduce emotional withdrawal for Harry, improve communication during conflicts, and strengthen sense of identity outside of the friendship. Um, what progress would look like. Ron expresses insecurity without withdrawing or lashing out. Harry allows himself to rely on others emotionally, both engage in direct communication during conflicts, reduced comparison and increased mutual appreciation, a stronger sense of individual identity within the friendship. The outcome, well, Harry and Ron's growth is not about becoming perfect friends, it's about learning how to stay connected through discomfort. Their friendship evolves when they recognize that loyalty isn't just about showing up physically but emotionally as well. Absolutely true. Healing means understanding that feeling unseen or overwhelmed doesn't have to lead to disconnection and that conflict doesn't mean the relationship is broken.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

Yeah. I'm just trying to think like uh how this pertains to our friendship, but that was a lot. I feel like we're both like pretty aware, you know.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

I don't know that we have these types of issues. Carry and Ron? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like I'm just trying to see if this is yeah, I don't think we like compare ourselves to each other, uh, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

But they also met each other at such like formative years where they're like really coming into themselves for the first.

SPEAKER_02 19:05

And it was interesting watching them evolve, you know, as adults, as yeah, and then like based on based on like their home environment.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

You know, Ron had the magic everywhere, and maybe he didn't need to try as hard. Like, not like Harry, it was natural to him, but like Hermione, you know, she tried because she's a yeah, a muggle.

SPEAKER_02 19:29

And Harry didn't even really have a family.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Yeah, but Ron had that. So, like where we might look at him and be like, Oh, he's basic. It's like he was content, like in his life. He didn't, I'm not saying he didn't grow up with a struggle because obviously you know you know you're getting all the hand-me-downs. That's a struggle on its own.

SPEAKER_03 19:45

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

You know, so yeah, yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

And Harry was essentially like an only child.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

Yeah, I would have been better off being an only child, honestly. Who you? Um, Harry. Oh, Harry, yeah. I mean, he was, but you know, like being raised in a home. Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

Forget that family. I hated the way they treated him. Okay, that's a different episode. Yeah. Neglect and abuse.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Yeah. Oh, I can't wait for that one. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

Okay. Who you got? Let's hear it. I'm excited for this because I haven't read this book, so I'm looking forward to you convincing me to read it. Even though you already told me a million times to read it. Yes. That's the other thing about our friendship. She's always telling me, read this, watch this, this, that, this, that. And I it takes me a while.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

So today I have the Padavano sisters from Hello Beautiful. And so Hello Beautiful is a literary fiction family drama, but honestly, it's giving best friends sisters who are so close, they kind of become each other's whole world. Okay, so the Padavano sisters are Julia. Why are you looking at me? Okay, I won't look at you. Okay, so the Padavano sisters are Julia, Sylvie, Cecilia, and Emiline. Emiline. Emily. And honestly, the way I think about them is yes, they're sisters, but they're really functioning like best friends. Like this is very much you're my person energy. They're each other's first call, first option, first, you're not gonna believe what just happened. They don't just share their lives, they they kind of experience everything through each other. So if something happens to one of them, it's not just individual, it becomes a group experience. Everyone knows, everyone feels it, everyone's involved. And clinically, when I hear the dynamic like that, I'm immediately thinking about how much of someone's identity is being shaped within the relationship. Because with them, it's very much a shared identity. It's not just this is who I am, I tell you about it. It's more like we know who you are because. We've always existed in the same place. You know, and I think that's true to so many friendships when you've been friends for a long time. It's like I can just be like, Oh, you remember that time when we were in, and then you're like, Yeah, and I don't even have to explain the whole thing and say, whatever, because you were there. Right. It's different when you're when I'm explaining things to you from whatever versus when you're there, you know.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

So yeah, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Yeah, it makes sense, and that's what gives it that strong best friend vibe. There's emotional closeness, constant access, shared history, and also that unspoken understanding like you're on my side always. Like, this is the person who already knows your stories, your patterns, your moods. You don't have to explain anything because they are the context.

SPEAKER_03 22:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

But there's also something else happening. There are unspoken rules. And we see this a lot in really close friendships, especially long-term ones. There's this belief that certain boundaries don't need to be set out loud because they just feel obvious, like loyalty or emotional exclusivity, or even who is off limits. Those expectations are there, but no one's actually saying them. And clinically, that's where things start to get complicated because when someone steps outside of that, whether they mean to or not, it doesn't just feel like conflict, it feels like betrayal. Not just betrayal in the moment, but betrayal of what you thought you both understood about the relationship. And that's exactly what we see when William comes in through Julia, and then things start to shift with Sylvie.

SPEAKER_03 23:27

Uh-oh.

SPEAKER_01 23:28

Because at that point, it's not just about a relationship forming, it's about a best friend dynamic being disrupted. Because in friendships like this, it's not just we care about each other, it's like we move together, we don't hurt each other like that, we don't cross these lines, and when that gets challenged, it can feel like losing your best friend, even if they're still right there. Yeah, yeah. So to think about having your best friend group, let's just say your best friend group, and then some guy just kind of comes in the picture.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

So I'm assuming that if we were doing therapy, I would want them to come as soon as William comes in the picture, and you know, not for nothing. Like, I wouldn't mind if it was before, like, not like the sister needed permission to have a guy around, but if it's gonna change the dynamic so much, exactly. I think if I were her, I would be like, Yeah, maybe let's start to do therapy and kind of ease your sisters, your best friends, into this. Yeah, yeah, that's a really good point. Just because they're so enmeshed, yeah, you know. I'm gonna say that for us. I'm not gonna be like, don't put me in therapy before your next man comes around.

SPEAKER_02 24:39

Right. Yeah, also I didn't do that, so yeah, no, but I needed your approval for some not approval, but you look good when we finally had that meeting. Like, yeah, this is good. This, oh yeah, I remember. Yeah, but I was just thinking, too, like you said, I'm like, oh, they must be really enmeshed because, like, if this is what's going on, yeah. Okay, I want to read this now.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

Yeah, so I'm actually I'm gonna try not to make any spoilers because this book is so good that I really think you should read it.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

Remember you telling me like a long time ago, of course.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

Okay, good. So this is gonna be PG.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

Alright, so putting the Padavano sisters on the couch, they're presenting problems. What are you laughing at their name? Pavano.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

Because all of a sudden you know it when before you didn't know it. It was like Padabat, Padabut, Pada. She just said Padano.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

No.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

Okay, so presenting problems, relational rupture following a boundary violation involving Julia, Sylvie, and William, best friend system disruption, loss of emotional safety within the group, enmeshment within the friend dynamic limiting individual autonomy, breakdown in communication due to reliance on unspoken friendship expectations, core themes, attachment versus individuation, struggle between being we versus being me within a best friend dynamic, loyalty versus autonomy, unspoken friendship rules, re relational identity, emotional access, and entitlement, expectation of full transparency and access because of closeness. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

Going back to what you were just saying before. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Yeah. So what's really happening in here is that this isn't just about the situation, it's about the dynamic of a really close best friendship system. The treatment goals increase awareness of how closeness and enmeshment are influencing decision making, support individuation while maintaining connection within the friendship, improve direct communication of needs, expectations, and boundaries, process betrayal within the context of a best friend attachment, not just conflict, interventions, use relational mapping to identify roles within the friendship dynamic, facilitate direct conversations to replace assumptions with clarity, introduce boundary setting work, support emotional processing of grief, betrayal, and shifting friendship identity, and explore how attachment needs are being met or unmet within the group. Expected outcomes, greater differentiation between individual identity and friendship roles, increase comfort expressing needs without feeling, you know, fear of losing the relationship. Oh boy, reduced reliance on unspoken expectations and a more flexible, structured, more flexible, secure friendship dynamic that allows for growth and change.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

Yeah, because at the end of the day, the the goal isn't to lose the closeness, it's to make sure the closeness can actually hold individuality.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

I think we really have that individuality in our friendship too. Like if I don't hear from you for a certain time, I'm like, okay, she just needs space. Like you don't we don't take offense or like why don't you, you know, this and that.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Like, do you think I need space like during the day? Like, how long?

SPEAKER_02 27:54

Well, no, like something will have to have happened, or you'll tell me it happen. Yeah. That was a lot of words for what. I'll you know, again, it's me wanting to be like, are you okay? Are you good? Like, you know, and I'm like, no, she's just give her some space and come back later. Yeah. You know, and just knowing that about one another. And you know, we both shut down, like blah blah blah. I don't need to go into that. But yeah. Um, also something you were just saying. Oh, I was just thinking as you were s talking that like I think also, like, one of my things is that I don't have a group of friends, like it's just you. Yeah. So like I'm probably more afraid of losing you because then I'm like, oh my god, I don't have anybody now. Like, you know what I mean? So that's why like I think that way, maybe. And I'm not saying that like this would ever play out and happen that way, but I think that's like some of it too, you know. I just don't and I don't really care for other friends to make other friends.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

No, I get that, but like we can use as an example, right? Like, just because we were just hanging out with them the other day, and not that these are the other members of our of our friendship group, because it's not like that, but it's like just picture when me, you, Amy, and um Allison were out, you know, that dynamic could have been like, well, they came on different days, so Roshe and Allison were there. Right. But you know, like let's say that was our main friend group. I would I don't know, I feel like if something were going on, like you could fear that too, because it's like, okay, are these two over here getting closer? Right. Or what's going on, and that happened with the sisters in my in my book. Yeah, like you know, some of them were just closer to each other for whatever reason. Right, right. Um, but I don't know, so there's that aspect too, is what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

No, I get that. Yeah. I think I'm just not in like a group that often even think.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

So the stakes are higher, it's like not all or nothing.

SPEAKER_02 29:52

Yeah, and it could be like my only childness a little bit too. Like, I don't want to share her, like I just want her to be my friend, like you know, what I don't know, something. It could be, but yeah. Also, remember when you threatened me to not have another intern because you're like, I don't want you to make friends.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

Yeah, yeah, because if this is how you you ended up with a best friend, that's me. I gotta be like, no more interns.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

Yeah, and then you destroyed my siffies, yeah. And then you all of a sudden can have interns.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

I um yeah, my new intern comes in September. Thank God.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

Oh my god, I thought we weren't doing this again.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

I know, I wasn't going to.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

All right. Well, we know you can't say no. I know.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

All right. Is it time? The treatment team meeting? Yeah. Well, you're done. Let's do it. Yeah. Sorry, okay. Um, all right, clipboards out. Okay, treatment plan aside. If the Pratavano sisters walked into my office, I'd be looking at them less like sisters and more like a best friend system. My first impression would probably be that this is a really enmeshed best friend dynamic. Like on the surface, it looks like closeness, support, loyalty, but underneath that I'd be looking for where individuality um kind of gets lost. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

Yeah. Well, if Ron and Harry walked into my office, um, you can see there was a strong bond, but like some kind of underlying like tension or something. Especially like, I guess when I get to my pain in the plot, I'm looking more towards more towards Moldwols. Voldemorts.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

More towards Valdemar.

SPEAKER_02 31:35

Voldemort. Voldemort. Voldemort. Okay. I'm looking more towards like the end. Yeah. You know where their friendship ended up. Okay. But um, yeah, like Ron, there would be some insecurity comparison. Harry would be like emotionally distant, like independent, because towards the end, he was really like on a mission. Definitely some withdrawal avoidance. Um, and you can tell that they have a loyal but strained under pressure attachment. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Alright, what they'd say versus reality.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

Alright. So they'd probably come in saying the problem is the situation, the relationship, the betrayal, Sylvie and William. But clinically, I'd be looking at the bigger picture, which is the dynamic that existed before that even happened. Because situations like this don't usually come out of nowhere, they come out of patterns within the relationship. And in really close best friendships, those patterns are usually built on unspoken expectations.

SPEAKER_02 32:41

Yeah. Yeah. That's so true. Yeah. Um, I feel like Ron would say, like, I'm just always second.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:50

And then Harry would be like, I didn't think it was a big deal.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

Yeah, well, the movie wasn't called or the books weren't called Ron Weasley. Yeah. Exactly, exactly. So yeah, he's a sidekick in the spotlight. He is. But he's like a super sidekick. He is a super sidekick. And super in the spotlight.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

Yeah, absolutely. Right. So Ron, yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

Yeah, no, but he's technically a main character. Like he's very much so a main character, but you can still see him as the sidekick. And same with I didn't do her.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

Same with Hermione, too. Same thing. Yeah, yeah. Um, so Ron feels unseen and undervalued. Harry avoids emotional confrontation, and both struggle to express their needs clearly. Yeah. Obviously.

SPEAKER_01 33:32

Yeah. But like, that's only because if you're comparing yourself to the boy who lived, yeah, come to die. It's a big deal. Yeah, but if you're talking to fucking um Neil or what what's that kid's name? Longbottom? Neville. Neville. Yeah. Neville also. Neil, that's his that's his call-in name. That's his call-in name. Voldemont. Voldemont. Um, but yeah, so it it kind of depends on where you're looking at it from.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

Yeah, I mean, I get both sides, honestly. I get it.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

But the way he feels is how he feels. We can't say you can't feel like you're not in the spotlight. Right. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

Yeah, absolutely. Okay. What would we work on first?

SPEAKER_01 34:22

Okay. I wouldn't even start with the betrayal right away. I'd start with helping them understand the dynamic they've been operating in as best friends. What are the unspoken rules here? What did loyalty mean in the friendship? What felt obvious that was never actually said out loud? Because from there we can start looking at boundaries, communication, and individuation, which is really just helping them figure out how to become close, how to be close without losing themselves in the relationship.

SPEAKER_02 34:51

Speaking of best friends, yeah. Yeah, like on my neck. Because they can't like just leave her alone for half an hour. Um, okay, what would I work on first? Um, so definitely communication during conflict. Yeah. Exploring identity and outside of comparison. Um, for Ron, I there's two things just individually. Ron naming and validating insecurity, and for Harry, increasing emotional openness.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:24

Yeah. Mm-hmm. What about kind of transference?

SPEAKER_01 35:28

Okay. I think for me, I'd probably feel a pull to pick a side at first, especially because in Best Friend Dynamics, loyalty feels so personal, which is always my cue to like slow down. Um, I'd probably also feel that frustration of like, wait, why didn't anyone just say this out loud sooner? Because everything here feels like it was understood, but never actually communicated, which is pretty much what it is. Like you know, you spend so much time with each other, you don't sometimes you do need to say the thing. Right. You can't just assume. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:03

And I feel like that's accurate with these two, also. Yeah. I think the counter-transference I might have is just I might like just wanna maybe Harry would be the one I would focus on more just because he has so much going on and he has like a mission and all of that. But then I might have empathy for Ron's insecurity and feeling overlooked.

SPEAKER_01 36:23

Yeah. Um because then you'd be overlooking him.

SPEAKER_02 36:26

Right, exactly. Right, exactly. Yeah. Um, I might be frustrated just because I'd be like, okay, you guys like clearly feel some type of way, just like let's put it out in the open and talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 36:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:38

Um and um I would appreciate the loyalty beneath the conflict. Yeah. I'd be like, man, like not that I need you to be Ron or whatever. Who's Harry? I'm Harry, you're Ron. But whatever. Um yeah, there's loyalty, that's you know, it's like a ride or die. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

All right, interventions. Interventions. I probably lean really heavily into attachment and boundary work here, especially within the context of friendship. Then naturally helping them tolerate uncomfortable conversations instead of avoiding them, helping them sit with feelings without immediately reacting, and helping them separate closeness from entitlement. Because in best friendships, those can get blurred very quickly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:31

Yeah. That sounds that sounds like stuff I could pull over here too, honestly. Um, I have cognitive restructuring around comparison and self-worth, emotion-focused work, like identifying and expressing feelings, communication skill building. Um, and that would be kind of the things that I would do. Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

Okay. That's good.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

Alright, hard truths.

SPEAKER_00 37:58

Hard truth. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

I'd probably say not every betrayal comes from a lack of love. Sometimes it comes from people who were never taught where they end and you begin. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's like something is happening to you, you know, like to you as a unit. So you all have that shared experience. Right. But so you assume they felt the same way, or you know, like and you forget. Right.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

Yeah. You forget that everyone's feeling differently, but nobody's saying anything. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:33

Yeah. I think we need to talk about it, and possibly for um there there will be another topic to cover these sisters in. And by then, I I'm not telling you to read it anytime soon. I'm just saying we'll do guys. No, no, no. Y'all heard her live. I'm not saying to read it anytime soon, but I'm saying, like, after you do read it, I would love to find a topic that goes with them.

SPEAKER_02 38:58

Sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:59

If I say anything, really, it'll give too much away, and it's not worth it for me. Not at all.

SPEAKER_02 39:05

Okay. No, and I don't want you to, because I really do want to read it. Because I remember after you read it, you were like, Man, I didn't really like care about this book, but you were like, it was actually so good for me to read it. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

Oh my god, guess who just texted me? Miriam. And she's like, This is my mini Alma bag. Oh my god. Oh my god, like I love her. Miriam.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

Howard's wife.

SPEAKER_01 39:29

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:30

I mean Bleep's wife. Oh. Well, you said the name already.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

Look, just look how cute she is.

SPEAKER_02 39:36

Oh my oh my god, that's so cute.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

She's like, I just have a little old school, whatever. I'm like, oh I love that.

SPEAKER_01 39:44

And she told us the story of how she met Bleep. I just gotta remember to text her back. You see, this is my bad. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 39:51

So my hard truth is loyalty without communication isn't enough to sustain connection.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

Yeah, I like that.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

Period. Because it's true. Yeah. Yeah. Alright, now let's bring it back to real life.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

Okay. So as always, I think this is where people listening might actually see themselves. Because this isn't just about, in my case, sisters, this is about best friends. Like the friendships where everything feels understood, but nothing is actually said. I feel like we might be privileged in a way. Like with our friendship, it was based, like I said, based on you know, you teaching me a lot of things for therapy, and then just as a person learning this is what I do, and I should practice this, and then just you know, having that open communication is my point. We started off with we started off with communication. Yeah, I would say, I don't understand this, or I'm really anxious doing these biopsychosocials because you're giving me like 10 minutes to do it, and I'm like, what the hell? This is I'm brand new at this. You know, like I'm brand new and I don't want to mess this up.

SPEAKER_02 41:06

So it was no pressure. Yeah, but it felt like pressure, you know what I mean? It's supposed to feel like pressure.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

It's an internship, you gotta learn the job. But my point is, like, some best friends, they're just they're just girls, right? Or guys, or whatever, you know, like they're just pe not that we're not just people. No, my god, you know what I mean? Yes. They don't have a specialty in communicating. Correct. So I think with you and I, yes.

SPEAKER_02 41:30

You know, you're right. Because I feel like I the like sometimes I like think about how I want to say something before I say it to you, just because like again, that's what we do, like you know, and not that sometimes I won't like blurch it out, yeah. But like we're a little bit more in tune with like how we say things, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 41:47

Yeah, so I think yeah, in this sense, like it's a little different, but yeah, you're right. That is a privilege that not a lot of people have because when people feel like you know, something doesn't need to be said, they don't understand there's nothing wrong with saying it, you know, just because like you're gonna pay for this or I'm gonna pay for that, or we're gonna just keep getting each other here and there, like whatever. Yeah, it might not need to be said, but there's nothing wrong with saying it either. That way the person can be reassured, like, oh yeah, I am gonna get you next time, and then you'll get me next time, or let's split in the middle, or right.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

I remember also like anything like anxious. I remember also one time you're like, like, you don't need to pay every time. Like, I'm an adult, like I can pay two. Yeah, like that was me. Like, again, maybe this is like I felt I need to do this for you to be my friend, yeah, type shit. But like, I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 42:40

But I like$23,000 extra thousand dollars a month to be my friend.

SPEAKER_02 42:44

Well, you have that and I don't. So let's how about you give me$23,000 extra months? Because you're doing 20,000 jobs. Um, okay, so my bringing it back to real life actually is very much so from what you were just saying, avoidance often feels easier than conflict, but it creates more distance. Yeah. So yeah, exactly what you were saying.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:07

Yeah, so guys, if you're friends with someone and you can't communicate, then oh my gosh. Like, I don't know what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

I don't know. I feel like when you when you're best friends or just friends, what is this? Best friends, never mind. When you're best friends, I feel like you um communicating, and I believe in you know, getting help, obviously. Hello, but um, I feel like your best friend, it should be effortless. Yeah, it should be effortless. Like, I shouldn't have to think about too much what what I'm gonna say to you. Like sometimes, you know, like even when I know we're gonna talk to each other, like when I know, like, okay, we're gonna FaceTime when we get home or whatever, right? Just to catch up on the day, I'll still leave you a voice note of like 10 minutes telling you. all this stuff that's happening right now like I'm not gonna talk to you and then yeah but like you might forget yeah but then we talk about different things like when we get on FaceTime like there's never anything to run out like there's never I never there's no way I've never run out of things to say to you. Me neither and like that's what like my significant other was saying like how do you guys talk to each other all day long every day I'm like I don't we just always have yeah because I tell you like pretty much everything so I'm like yeah there's a lot going on during the day I have a lot of thoughts like shit's happening I run into a lot of people we like thought dump yeah it's you know not in like that kind of way but like it's like but it's just a running stream of yeah consciousness or whatever if you guys could only see our text message thread we're burying our phones with us like that I'm destroying that on my way out they're gonna cremate my phone when they cremate me that's so funny on my way out yeah yeah but yeah yeah guys know who your best friends are that's what I'm saying don't just be calling people best friends just because they're physically there like feel safe with your best friend and be able to accept and give feedback because like again going back to when I used to be like well do whatever makes you happy and you're like no like I wouldn't be asking you for your opinion if I could do whatever makes me happy you know and I like to me it was like well I don't want to tell her what to do because that's my opinion and it's her life but then you were like no like tell me yeah you know so yeah that's like that's something we have to communicate about in order to communicate listen that once since we've communicated that I feel like even yesterday when I went and I bought my bag I was in the I was in the store and I was like I had FaceTime you and I was like I just want you I just want your help picking like this bag because I like a couple of them and you're like I think you should go with this one because that and you didn't say like just do whatever it's your money and even though I ultimately went with the bag that both of us liked it's it's just like yeah that's all I ever wanted. Yeah and it it just shows that it's not like we're just saying the things they heard it live when I explained it to you in real time back in whatever. Yes. And now like here it is again this just happened yesterday and it's like it's put in motion and that's how you get things going and that's how you make progress.

SPEAKER_02 46:34

Right. And I'm not like afraid that like oh my god what if she doesn't like my opinion and I love it. You know what I mean? And now I don't I just do it naturally now I don't even think about it.

SPEAKER_01 46:44

But even like when you were just holding it just now that's such a best friend thing. It was like you know it's kind of like a best friend and a sibling there's that parallel between them it's just so close. Yeah it's there's just a thin line between best friend and sibling I think yeah um because your sibling can be your best friend you know so hello the Padavano sisters the Carter sisters um no but what was I saying the um damn it was the last piece oh the piece of like even just what you have in the bag I was still on the fence I'm like I love the bag but there was something like I didn't have that extra like oh my god excitement yeah but then when I saw you hold the bag I was like oh this looks good on her like it's oh my god I want that and I'm like oh now you have that and now yeah and maybe that's my sibling dynamic like I need to be able to envision it on someone else because I've used that as an extension of me you know like I don't know I'm just talking about it feels like we are not talking it it's right it is it is right because sometimes you need to like see something from a different perspective you know and be like oh shit okay yeah well happy to be of help anytime you want me to hold any of your bags yeah you'll I'll hold your books to heard it next to your book con I'm gonna ask her to hold my books in my bag and she's gonna be like no I didn't say all that there's a book bag check Jinx okay jinx all right all right pain and the plot so the pain in the plot best friend edition yes alright I'm gonna go first okay all right be here with me now the moments Ron Weasley leaving Harry Potter and Hermione during the Horcrux hunt and Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Yep I'm right there man yeah when he got mad and left man oh my goodness all right the pain prolonged stress and survival conditions yeah because they were literally outside feeling like an outsider in the trio jealousy in comparison so like Harry and Hermione like their bond emotional exhaustion and fear influence of the horror crux amplifying insecurity because like Harry was a horror crux yeah exactly and believe that he doesn't belong or matter yeah the shift would have been Ron expresses what he's feeling instead of leaving Harry reassures and acknowledges Ron's place in the friendship they address the emotional tension before it escalates the plot would be Ron never leaves no prolonged separation stronger emotional trust within the trio less damage to the friendship earlier emotional growth and understanding so he didn't just leave he left at the exact moment he felt he didn't belong yeah yeah and this is someone who ends up like being with Hermione so in a way were you I don't know that I feel like I felt like I feel like was he more upset that he I don't know maybe it was like a trio thing it yeah they always say it's a little but I'm saying like I don't know that I don't think it would have mattered whether he stayed or left.

SPEAKER_02 50:20

I feel like it would have been what it was gonna be and the only thing that would have changed is that they would have communicated.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:26

So I don't really know about this pain and the plot you know what I'm saying? Maybe the pain wasn't worth the plot. Yeah because like if it was gonna be yeah the pain was they ended up coming together at the end and I think eventually like they confronted it. Or maybe they didn't or maybe that was until after everything was over.

SPEAKER_01 50:46

But yeah so yeah and not for nothing Harry Potter was a legend like he came there and I mean like Izzy said like you don't you don't own her just because you like her. You know? Yeah and I'm not saying like he's not valid in being his best friend. Right. But at the same time it's like Yeah you don't own your best friend either.

SPEAKER_02 51:12

Yeah. And Ron was when they were Ron was the first person that Harry met yeah outside like his family when they were trying to go through the platform.

SPEAKER_00 51:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:21

And then like Harry showed his scar to Ron that was the first outsider person. So like yeah so Ron knew exactly who he was from the beginning.

SPEAKER_01 51:32

Yeah yeah okay all right go for it hopefully you're not giving it no I'm not and I made sure I wasn't once I realized that's what I don't know if you saw me over here typing away. That's called friendship consideration okay so a little just to make it make sense you know okay so the pain in the plot for the Padavano sisters when Julia's ex, William later becomes involved with Sylvie crossing a boundary that was never explicitly stated but deeply understood within their best friend dynamic. Like something like that should not have to be said like my exes are off limits. Yeah like we don't have the same type anyway so it doesn't matter in our friendship. But if we had the same type No like we wouldn't do that. Right that's a given yeah okay so the pain enmeshment disguised as closeness we don't need to say it you should just know Julia's identity tied to her role within the group Sylvie choosing connection over unspoken loyalty betrayal that feels like losing your best friend not just a relationship so the shift Sylvie steps outside of the unspoken rules of the friendship the dynamic shifts from we move together to I'm making my own choice Julia is forced to confront both the loss of the relationship and the rupture of her best friend bond.

SPEAKER_02 53:00

So the plot the foundation of the friendship fractures roles within the group begin to shift leader loyal one outsider unspoken expectations are exposed and can't be ignored anymore and trust within the friendship is permanently altered like not Sylvie looking at Julia's ex like Bestie I love you but also I saw him first you know that could never be yeah and even sometimes like when you'll joke around and be like oh like blah blah blah blah I'll be like girl no I'm not doing that that's never gonna happen ever yeah it's just off limits I don't understand how and whatever take offense or not but I don't understand how people like mess with their friends' exes and do all that like like whatever y'all have reasons and I'm not judging but like personally for me I can never understand it because how are you gonna be best friends with that person then you're gonna bring their ex man around because like at some point you're gonna have to be in the same room together and it's just weird. Yeah no thanks no alright what's next um I think it's time for some fun games and some chaos best friend chaos okay well you and I create enough chaos outside in the world just kidding guys not alright so the first game is ride or die or red flag oh boy okay ride or die or red flag and no it depends like you have to pick because you commit to the chaos yeah gun to your head you guys play along too okay ride or die or red flag they keep a secret to protect you I hate this already I say ride or die because like is it a secret I'm telling you about me or a secret you know that you're choosing not to tell me because you're protecting me. Yeah it's me looking into it too deep.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

No but that's like what we were talking about in mommy issues when I was when I was asking you about BB. You know like what would you do? Would you have told her you know but like if I'm keeping a secret to protect you it wouldn't be like just to protect you. It would be like to literally protect you. Um I wouldn't keep a secret like your boyfriend's cheating because I didn't want to hurt your feelings. Okay. I would keep a secret like you cannot leave right now because I know the roads are too icy and you're gonna try to rush to my house okay so that's that's ride or die for yeah yeah yeah yeah okay if you're keeping it from me and it's information and it's to protect you not just to protect your feelings right yeah yeah never protect my feelings please yeah okay they support you publicly but vent about you privately I mean it depends on who they're venting to yeah exactly yeah because if they're venting to you yeah like are you doing it like behind their back but also I'd rather you just vent privately than disrespectfully talk shit out loud.

SPEAKER_02 56:17

And the whole group of right yeah yeah and then you look dumb because you're like well why are you friends with this person if you're talking all this shit you know? Yeah yeah they cross a boundary but say I didn't think I had to ask I feel like that's a red flag sane yeah because if you if you're best friends like why do you need to be afraid to ask something like that yeah I agree they always take your side even when you're wrong and that's the red flag because I don't want you to just take my side even when I'm wrong because then I'll never learn yeah exactly I agree they disappear when they're in a relationship but come back like nothing happened this is a red flag for me because I told you this was literally my situation with my best friend when I was younger. Okay that's a red flag just tell me you want to like spend time with your per like I don't care. You know what I mean? Yeah yeah yeah okay they tell other people your business but say it's because they needed advice no that's not okay.

SPEAKER_01 57:28

That's a red flag yeah they expect you to show up for everything but aren't always consistent for you that's a red flag yeah like if we're gonna know our roles let's play them yeah we don't need to don't expect me to come show up if you're not gonna come show up.

SPEAKER_02 57:44

Yeah I can't even be friends with you if you're not consistent. So forget about it.

SPEAKER_01 57:49

Yeah they apologize but keep doing the same thing no red flag then just don't apologize just own that shit this is me this is what I'm gonna do exactly it. Yep okay they say I know you better than you know yourself you maybe probably do. Yeah but I don't like that I would never be like Narisa you don't know what you're talking about I know you better than you know yourself it feels weird yeah like don't say that but like you can give me a look like Vanessa right or you could be like Nerisa you remember when and then I'm like okay but to actually say that no yeah I don't never say that to me no matter who you are never say that to me yeah they get jealous when you get close to someone new well I say that's a green flag you gotta protect your your shit yeah exactly right a die yeah okay they joke about you in ways that feel a little too real I don't like that because I feel like as best friends you know like how sensitive someone is around what topics like you don't exactly even know like if it feels too real then they're gonna be thinking like is there some truth to that like why are you I wouldn't yeah yeah I wouldn't joke about somebody like something that I know is like an insecurity or like that's wild.

SPEAKER_02 59:10

Yeah no red flag okay they don't check on you but as soon you'll tell them if something is wrong you know I don't know I feel like if I don't hear from you or something I'm gonna check on you because I don't know if something is wrong. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 59:30

And you you're just like whatever taking space or vice versa whatever yeah sometimes you don't want someone checking in on you. Sometimes you're just like whatever I'm here I'm doing my thing if I need your help I'll reach out. Right. So yeah I I guess it it depends. Yeah okay now how many of these were actually ride or die and how many did we normalize because it's our best friend you know I actually felt like we were honest yeah I think so too I don't think we normalized anything okay I agree okay all right game number two best friend test or just familiar I always feel like I'm selling something best friend test$4.99 okay best friend test or are we just used to them okay okay who tells you the truth you don't want to hear but still feel safe I feel like that can be someone who's just familiar you know like you can feel safe yeah um that's true and they tell you the truth but like obviously I feel like a best friend that's gonna be built in. Yeah so both I think yeah I agree.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:44

Who notices when something is off without you explaining it um I think that can also be both same yeah because if you know me enough to know something is off yeah like you would notice yeah yeah okay who respects your boundaries even when they don't understand them that would probably be my best friend because I don't know that everybody would respect my boundaries.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:12

Yeah especially if they don't understand them they'll probably be like no that doesn't make sense like I'm gonna keep doing this yeah who can sit with you when you're not okay without trying to fix it um that's really honestly just my best friend yeah I I say the same thing too yeah because anyone else is gonna be trying to fix it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:33

Right and people don't know us to know that we don't want a resolution we just need space.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:39

Yeah that's it yeah yeah okay who can handle you at your worst without using it against you later that's just you yeah that's a best friend thing yeah okay um who celebrates you without making it about themselves I I have some people that are just familiar could be both yeah right because I don't just familiarize myself with people who aren't good people yeah you know so you they would be celebrating you report right well I always make everything about me no I'm just kidding oh goodness like at the restaurant just now yeah like I was done you were drinking water I was still sitting at the table and like I look up and she's standing there with her fucking crossbody on straightening out her jacket like she's ready to walk out the door I'm like hello I'm still sitting at the table and I'm like okay well I'm ready and she's like you can take your time and I'm like you're standing while I'm sitting at the table.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:45

Oh my god yeah I'll work on it okay so who can give you space without making you feel guilty um well we're both silent huh yeah because like I'm trying to yeah same yeah I think I think that's a best friend thing I was gonna say familiar but at the same time like when it's just someone familiar I do feel guilty still right like I understand that they understand that I wouldn't you know want to feel guilty but like I would still feel guilty because I'm like again there's not just that open flow of consciousness so they're still making assumptions of whatever they feel like might be going on in your life whereas if it's my best friend you know already you can put the pieces together because you know what my day was like yesterday you know what is on my mind you know what's bothering me that's true so there's that yeah no I agree and like if I need space but like they're asking me something I might feel like oh I need to respond to them or something like and I would feel guilty but like yeah with you yeah I know it's like you get it. Yeah okay who can disagree with you without the relationship feeling threatened just you because anybody else disagree with me I'm arguing who checks in without needing something from you first um if you're checking in and I haven't talked to you in like months then you need something because there's no way so depends on that.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:26

Yeah yeah who allows you to grow even if that growth changes the dynamic oh that's definitely a best friend thing because like you remember when I was gonna move to Alaska I was gonna move back to Alaska a couple months ago and like I months ago for like a whole year. No that was January but I made the final decision in January.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:48

Right I forgot this was going on for longer than that.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:51

Yeah it was a long negotiation um it's a big step to move you know so far again but anyway so like of course in the beginning you're like do whatever you know do what do whatever's best for you and then you started to come around and then you're like you know what if Alaska's gonna make you happier then fine you know and we were really considering it because I was like we can do the podcast virtually yeah you know and we could yeah and we still can we gotta be sitting right here on the couch next but you're not going to Alaska so it doesn't matter. Yeah not right now. Right whatever but the point is like you know what I mean that I feel like next time you better go because don't have me sitting here how can you figure it out but in that moment you are allowing me to grow even if that changes the dynamics because that would completely change our whole dynamic.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:41

I would probably see you maybe once a year if that yeah so yeah yeah all right right but I was still gonna be your best friend so right all right who doesn't need access to every part of you to feel secure in the friendship I think I would go back to

SPEAKER_01 1:06:01

What I was saying earlier about like you it's that stream of that open stream. Yeah. So it's like you get enough. Like I wouldn't feel like insecure. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Okay. Who can take accountability without getting defensive?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:24

That's gotta be just my best friend because not a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:30

Well, my significant other can take accountability.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:35

But I get offensive even with that. You know what I mean? So it's really just you.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:42

Yeah. And who do you feel like yourself around, not just the version they're used to?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:49

I don't know that I can be myself around a lot of people, and with you I know that.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:55

That's true. Like, um, there's always like a little something you hold back when it's like, yeah. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:05

Oh. Alright. Oh.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:07

This could get interesting if we do these. Let's do that. I don't know. Who do you feel like you have to slightly edit yourself around?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:16

Not you. You literally just said you can't reveal not you, but other people. Yeah. I have to, because I just can't be myself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:27

Okay. Who knows your past but doesn't always support who you're becoming. Sometimes that can be like a longer term friendship. You know, just because they're used to this person that you were. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:42

Um, who expects access to you just because of history?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:48

I feel like that's maybe that's the familiar people. Yeah, I agree. Who do you feel guilty setting boundaries with?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:56

Everybody.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:57

Yeah, agree.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:58

And next. Who do you feel responsible for emotionally? Everybody. Yeah. Next.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:05

Who do you vent to but avoid being fully honest with? I think the familiars. The familiar. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:11

Yeah. Who do you feel drained after spending time with but still love? The familiar. It's the familiars. The familiars, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:20

Because like you do love them, but you're not completely a hundred percent just oh yeah. You who struggles when you start changing or growing?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:30

Not you, because you encourages. Yeah, you encourage that. You're always encouraging, changing, and growing. And like that's been since the beginning of our friendship. Yeah. Like, even when you're like, you need to like leave that blah blah blah and do something different because you can do more, you're worth more. Like you have a lot of skills. Like you can, yeah, don't just be in that one place. Yeah. And I listened.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:53

I'm so happy. Yeah, so happy. I mean, not like I listened, like yeah, no, but I could have seen it was a comfortable spot. You could have stayed there for like the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:02

But that's where that's my problem. Like, I get comfortable because I'm anxious about change.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:08

But that's what life is about. It's like putting yourself out there and learning and challenging yourself and not just you can't just stay in this one box. Yeah, and it's your entire life.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:16

I didn't like challenge that. Yeah. Again, in a gentle way. I wouldn't.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:20

But then it challenges yourself because it's like, how dare you feel like, oh, I have arrived and like that's it? Like you just feel like, oh, this is it. I'm here. I'm successful. This is what I do now.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:30

Like, yeah. No. Meanwhile, I love what I'm doing way more than and granted I learned a lot from that job. And I met you there, so like that's the best thing that came out of it. And experience.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:47

Who do you keep in your life more out of loyalty than alignment? Maybe the familiars.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:55

Yeah. Who do you feel like you have to maintain a certain version of yourself for? Probably the familiars, but barely even. Yeah. Because I'm just gonna be me and that's gonna be that.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:07

Who do you hesitate to tell big news to, good or bad?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:10

Not you.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:12

Who do you feel like you can't outgrow without losing the relationship? I think that's the familiars because this doesn't exist.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:22

Mm-hmm. Who makes you feel like conflict equals risk of losing them? That's me internally in my mind. I feel that way, but that's not reality.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:34

Who do you over-explain yourself to so they won't misunderstand you? Everybody else.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:40

Because all I gotta say is sometimes we don't even say our complete thought, and you're like, I get it, I understand. And I'm like, Yeah, you know, yeah. So, like, I don't gotta over-explain to you. You just be knowing.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:51

Okay, last one. Who feels like home, but not always like peace? Familiar, yeah, definitely. Because they're familiar.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:01

And you can get that confused. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:04

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:06

Alright, if some of this hit a little too close, that doesn't mean the friendship isn't real, but it might mean it's operating more on history than intention.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:16

So be mindful of the familiars and your real friendships. Yeah. And don't go out of your way proving stuff to familiars. Like focus on your friendship, your good friendships. And like I always say, like, you don't need to have like 20 million friends to like be somebody or whatever people think. I don't know. Like, some people rely on that, you know? And also, like, you should just have your one person.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:44

Mm-hmm. At least, yeah. Have your person. Have your person because like it feels so good to let your hair down. It really does. It feels so good to be able to just be yourself around someone. Like, it feels really good. And like I said, I don't know if it was this episode or last episode where I was like, you need to experience what it feels like to live on your own. I told my little sister that like a couple weeks ago.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:06

Um, but it's like being able to experience yourself. Oh, hunt is on top of the bookshelf. That's what I was saying. I don't, I didn't realize I did that. Yeah. Maybe I was up in the clouds.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:21

Yeah, when you were like, I got that in Paris.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:23

I'm like No, I was I was fucking with you earlier. Oh, yeah. And you were like, Oh, this is nice. I know you bought it for me. And I was like, Oh, I got it when I was in Paris trying to say again. I wanted to know if you were gonna be like, No, don't you remember I bought this, but you didn't you didn't catch the bait. You didn't because that's all needs to over. You say that shit. Catch the bait. Exactly. But whatever. I don't know. Bibity bobbity. Yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:46

Oh, also like another theme that comes up when I'm doing therapy with people is that like they have had groups of friends since they were like in their 20s, and now they're like older adults, yeah, and they're like explaining shit about their friends I'm like, you're allowed to outgrow friend groups, like everybody's gonna change throughout different stages of their life, and it's okay if like that person doesn't fit into what you got going on. Like you meet friends throughout your whole life, and and again, that's okay. But if you find one good one, then hold on to them.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:19

Yeah, oh now I remember what I was gonna say. So it's like it's good that you get to let your hair down when it's yourself, like to be able to experience having your own space where you don't have to like tiptoe or yeah, whatever it is that you need to feel whole, like you get to do that in your own space. So having a person that you can do that with, it's like like Christina and Meredith, right? Like you you are my person. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:46

Oh, it's one, two, three right now. One, two, three. Oh my god, you just reminded me. Oh, wait, two things. Sorry, we'll come back to Christina and Meredith.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:54

No, I'm done. I was just saying those are the ultimate best friends, and if I was doing a show, it would be them.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:59

I want to do some honorable mentions, like, but what I was gonna say is also remember like how I learned that like if I don't want to tell you something, it means that I should. Like I'm hiding or I'm lying to myself. And that's something that recently, not like recently, but a couple years ago, I was like, oh, if I'm afraid to tell her this, then I should tell her because like I'm hiding something and I'm embarrassed or something, and I and like a lot of the times I would tell you, like, I didn't want to tell you this, but like I knew that was my sign to tell you, yeah, and you would be like, it would just be like nothing, yeah. It would be nothing, and you'd be like, Well, da-da-da-da, and whatever, you know. But yeah, anyway, honorable mention best friends, Christina and Meredith, absolutely, yeah, C3PO and R2 D2, of course. Um Sam Kyle's Triari, Danica and Bryce, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:59

Lysandra and Ailen, Nahemia and Ailen. Mm-hmm. I mean, they were her friends. I I'd say Lysandra and Nahemia were I would consider them best friends, and I would even consider Sam a best friend. Penelope and Eloise would have been a good one to do, too.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:15

Yeah. Amran and them. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:22

Nesta and the Valkyrie. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my god, the fact that Nesta made friends. Jeez. Oh yeah. Jeez.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:30

Um the the people at the school with the dragons.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:37

Oh, Violet and Rihannan?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:41

Or whoever, however you say it.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:44

Rihannon, Rihanna.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:48

Those are some good ones. Well, if you guys think of more than Rarity.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:52

Oh, Queen Charlotte and Lady Danbury. Oh, yeah. That was beautiful. That was good. I couldn't see them originally. Yeah, that scene was so good. Yeah, yeah. Loved it. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And Hermione and Dom, too. Yeah.

unknown 1:16:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:09

I still think that Hermione and Harry would have made a good couple.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:12

I think they would have made a better couple. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:15

Yeah.

unknown 1:16:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:17

Alright. Well, next episode, we're remembering the ones who didn't make it.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:22

Yeah. The ones who carried the weight. Who fought? Who sacrificed. And left their mark on the story.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:30

We're paying our respects to all our fallen warriors for Memorial Day.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:35

Yeah. That one's gonna be sad. Yeah. Alright, well, you know, it's okay. Sometimes we gotta do sad topics. Yeah. And that's the reality of life. Not everything's all happy potter.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:51

Happy Potter.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:54

Alright, that's it for this session. See you next time.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:58

We want you to be a part of this world with us. Send you our books. And our recommendations. Send you our books. Sorry. We want you to be a part of this world with us. Send us your book recommendations, character obsessions, or topics you want us to cover.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:16

Yeah, and send we'll send you our books site. If you're gonna read them yet, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:21

Yeah, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:23

Yeah. Um, you can find us on Instagram and TikTok at once upon a session pod.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:28

Or email us at info at onceuponassessionpod.com if you want to share thoughts, suggestions, or just scream about a plot twist with us. So are we charging for this session?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:41

Emotionally, you're stuck with me forever and always.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:47

See you next session.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:50

Same couch, same chaos. Bye-bye. Go hug your best friend.