Session 18: Love Triangles & Toxic Relationships- Red Flags We Romanticize

Love triangles aren’t always about choosing between two people.

Sometimes they’re about choosing between the relationship you have… and the one you deserve.

In this episode, we explore the psychology behind toxic relationships through the lens of Fabric of Our Souls by K.M. Moronova & Kiss of the Basilisk by Lindsay Straube. Together, we unpack trauma bonds, attachment, red flags, emotional dependency, and why walking away from someone we love can feel so much harder than staying.

Because sometimes the hardest relationship to leave isn’t the one that’s hurting us—it’s the one we’ve built our hope around.

Disclaimer: We’re licensed therapists, but we’re not your therapists. Everything shared in this podcast is for conversation, reflection, and entertainment—not a substitute for therapy.

✨ Follow Once Upon a Session for new episodes exploring stories, psychology, and healing.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:12

I have a question. Oh gosh, that usually means trouble. Why do fictional characters always pick the person who is actively complicating their life? Because if everyone communicated openly and made healthy choices, most books would be 40 pages long. And somehow the relationship with the most red flags is always the one people are voting for. Because intensity feels exciting. But exciting and healthier is kidding. And that's exactly what we're getting into today. We're two people.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

We're two therapists turning a TV or palette to dream replace.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

And every story becomes a session. I'm the one who knows a relationship is toxic and still needs to see how it ends. And I'm the one who somehow ends up invested in all three people in the love triangle. Always. Alright, just a quick note before we dive in. We're both licensed therapists, but we're not your therapist. Everything we share here is for conversation, reflection, and maybe a little inspiration. I can't talk about it. But it's not a substitute for therapy. If you're struggling, please reach out to a mental health professional.

unknown 1:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

But it's not a substitute for therapy. If you're struggling, please reach out to a mental health. But it's not a substitute for therapy. If you're struggling, please reach out to a mental health professional who can give you the cares. Wow, you were so close. Mental health professional. So you're just gonna start mid-sentence? It's a lot, it's a lot more. It was safer. But it's not a substitute for therapy. If you're struggling, please reach out to the mental. I'm so sorry. Let me look at it. You're fine. Don't be sorry. Well, don't look at me. You might laugh even more because I'm funny looking. That was so funny. That was so yeah, see, I'm funny and I'm funny looking. But it's not a substitute for therapy. But it's not a substitute for therapy. If you're struggling, please reach out to a mental health professional who can give you the care and support your desire. Who can do that? Who can do that? You gotta start all over. Maybe do it in another accent. No, it's not a substitute for therapy. If you're struggling, please struggling. Struggling. Who's that? London, New York together. If you're struggling.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Okay. But it's not a substitute.

SPEAKER_02 3:16

Meanwhile, this is the most important part of the whole entire podcast of us telling people to go get therapy. Basically, if you're struggling, go see somebody. No. If you're not, it's not even the line. It's because I'm looking at you. I told you don't look at me. I'm gonna hide behind them. It's okay because now I can't see you. Okay. But it's not a substitute for therapy. If you're struggling, please reach out to a mental health professional who can give you the care and support you deserve. Yes. Now that you've all tolerated that, have a seat on our couch. Thanks for your patience. Hi. Hey. Welcome back. Welcome back. What day is it? It's a week since the last one. Why is it Thursday and we're at not at work? Let me log. Let me. Oh my god. Yes. We are working. This is our work. What do you mean? Hello? What's going on? Oh my god. It's just been a week. I crashed out and it took me like three business days to get back to my baseline. Um, yeah. That's not bad. No, it's not. I've been watching.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

It turned around, yeah. But it was just a bad crash out.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:37

It was a bad crash out. I had to balance like guilt, grief, disappointing people, trying to please people. Like all of this I put on myself though, so but yeah, I crashed out and uh I had to reflect. So that's that's what's gonna be. Thank you. It's good to be back to my baseline. But yeah, I've been doing that, work again, watching a World Cup. That's the one sporting event I watch every four years, so I'm enjoying that.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Good.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

And yeah. What about you? What's gonna well you just came fresh off a sleep study.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Yeah, I did. And you know what? I spent last night in the hospital and she did not come and visit me.

SPEAKER_02 5:29

Oh my god, you can't have visitors, it's a sleep study. You're supposed to be sleeping. She works there.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Yep, anyone can come.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

It wasn't an emergency and you needed to be sleeping. I would have been interfering with your thing.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

Whatever.

SPEAKER_02 5:46

Okay. Anyway. Anyway, she didn't sleep. Yeah, I didn't sleep, so much for that. Anyway, what else? Life going on. That was work for me.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

I slept at work last night. That was work and life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I guess. Alright.

SPEAKER_02 6:05

That's all you got.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Yeah, what are you reading?

SPEAKER_02 6:08

I am on Kingdom of Ash, eh? But I just started it and I read like two chapters. I needed a break from reading because I was reading like so frequently, like consistently, and I just like need a breather. Yeah, I just need a brief breather between starting again.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

So yeah. What are you reading?

SPEAKER_01 6:34

Well, while you enjoy that brief breather.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

Well, it is until tonight. Yeah. Until tonight when I finish Cachio.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Well, I finished Cachio. No, I'm at the very end of Caccio where I don't want to finish. And then I have that the last couple of Pepe.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

Yeah. That last stretch.

SPEAKER_02 6:55

But I had read a couple of them, like I couldn't stop reading the last time I was supposed to switch out the chapters. So I read like a few down. A few downs. So that's why I'm still even in Caccio. Yeah. Because I just I don't want it to end. Even though I know we have Kingdom of Bash, but it's almost because we have Kingdom of Bash. I know. But like it's so hard to read those last few chapters. Um, yeah, but the last few um chapters of Empire of Storms is really, really hard to read.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

That's why I know what's coming right right there. Like I'm right there, Maeve's there, like it's going down. Um, Alid and Lorcan, oh my god, like I know that broke me. I was just like, no, but I know. And then oh my god, when the when the 12 oh when they came, when they came and they're like, Abraxos.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

I know.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Yeah, that moment, like I feel like that was my World Cup. Like, that was my World Cup.

SPEAKER_02 7:55

And I, you know, I appreciated even that whole storyline with the 12 and Manon, I appreciated them so much more this time around than I did the last time. You know, actually, I can't believe I'm about to say this out loud to you. I love Rowan Whithorn, but I don't love him as much as I did the first time. Yeah. Like, I'm not like, oh my god, he's making me melt. When we reread, yeah. When we start. So now I'm like, uh, which book boyfriend is gonna make me go, oh my god. Like, yeah, it's like you know that feeling that they give you when they're just so I'm not getting it from Rowan as much this time. Right? Something's up. That reads it for it. I mean, we have so many more books to read. I know, yeah. I'm gonna find some other book boyfriend. I mean, Rowan is still my book boyfriend.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

He served a purpose.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yesterday's bleep is not today's bleep. Yeah. Rowan, sorry. Sorry about it. Hi.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

Loki is still my lurk in for now in the book. Yeah. I just got so mad when I forgot. Like, I was like, wait, didn't he betray them again?

SPEAKER_02 9:06

Like, I was just it was uh ugh. Yeah. Alright, so for our um topic questions, would you rather have chemistry or compatibility? That's really hard. I mean, it's really, really hard because you want to be compatible, but you want chemistry too, you know? So like that means you have to sacrifice some things if you want compatibility and like also I that's how I just feel like you have to sacrifice. Um, honestly, I would rather have chemistry. I just feel like if I have chemistry, like we can go off of that, you know. Um, and I'm more into that feeling than I am into like checking off a box for each requirement or each whatever characteristic or whatever. I feel like it'll come, you know, and then I'll figure it out. But I would rather have chemistry.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Yeah. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think? Probably chemistry. Same. Like it's the vibes. Like we can be good for each other, whatever, but if I can't, like, you know? Yeah, no, that's such a good way. I know I'm just moving, but like, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

That's such a good way to put it. Like, sorry, I don't know why I didn't like think of it that way. But like we got two different brains. If we're not, if the vibes are good, like, yeah, that's what matters. I agree. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

All right, and for you, what's the difference between being loved and feeling chosen? So I think being loved is more like what someone feels for you.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Right? Like you're being loved by that person, but being chosen or feeling chosen, being chosen, right? That's like how they show you their love.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

So that's how I would say like that's the difference.

SPEAKER_02 11:09

I totally agree with that. I think feeling chosen is like a deeper, a deeper, a deeper level of being loved.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

Because like you can love someone, but like, are you you choosing someone is different? Yeah. I agree with you. Today we're talking about love triangles and toxic relationships. And why the relationships we're drawn to aren't always the relationships that help us grow. Because chemistry and compatibility aren't always the same thing. Oh well, we just we're talking about that. Yeah. And sometimes the hardest relationship decisions have nothing to do with love and everything to do with what we need. Oh my god, that's so true. When people hear the phrase toxic relationship, they usually think about obvious red flags. But unhealthy relationships aren't always obvious. Sometimes they feel exciting, validating, passionate, or impossible to walk away from. People don't stay in unhealthy relationships because they're weak. Most people stay because the relationship is meeting a need. Sometimes it's love. Okay. Sometimes it's hope. Familiarity. Those jokes. Okay, hold on. Just drop. Sometimes it's hope. Sometimes it's something familiar. Yeah. Fear of being alone or fear of letting go. Chemistry and compatibility aren't always the same thing. A relationship can feel intense without being healthy. Love triangles often look like a choice between two people. And they're usually a choice between different needs, values, or futures. One relationship may represent safety. Another may represent excitement, validation, or familiarity. Here we go again. I can't say that one. Attachment plays a role too. Fear of abandonment, vulnerability, loneliness, or making the wrong choice can all influence relationships. Healing often means learning that healthy relationships don't have to feel chaotic. Because stability may feel unfamiliar. What? I wasn't calling you out. I was just hearing my throat. Because stability may feel unfamiliar, but unfamiliar doesn't mean wrong. Love triangles and toxic relationships aren't really about romance. They're often about attachment, emotional needs, and what people believe they deserve from love.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

Man, love triangles. It's so funny because, like, whatever, now I'm gonna share. But like, yeah, you can it's crazy how you can have like you have needs, right? But like you usually don't get them all in one person. Yeah. I mean, most of the time it's not. I'm not saying it's not impossible. But then it's like, yeah, like having the two people like to provide the needs, all like what's so wrong with that? But it's so wrong, you know?

SPEAKER_01 14:05

And but they're like different relationships, right? Like you're having a completely separate relationship. Like it doesn't even have to be like physical.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

Yeah, like you could just spend time with them, talking to them on the phone, like hanging out, whatever. Right, never crossing any line, but it's still you're providing not you're providing a service. Well, they're providing a service, yeah. No, but you know what I mean. It could be that kind of service too. No. But you're filling a need, yeah, exactly. And like I'm just thinking about um never understanding polygamy. Like, I'm like, well, I don't understand why you need like to have five different girlfriends or whatever, you know? Because like like that's crazy. I'm not somebody who could tolerate that because I'm gonna be thinking like what you're doing with me, you're doing with that person, and I don't like that, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

Yeah, but think about like the majority, like, even just what we see on TV. They're usually it's real young, you're grown into that, and you're like, oh, okay, this is what I'm supposed to do. I'm supposed to be my wives, my sister's sister wives as well.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

Oh, yeah, you know, I wasn't even thinking about like the show, you're right. I'm thinking about like people who just yeah, but they start most of not most of them, but a group of them at least, right? Right. I'm just thinking of one particular individual that I was dealing with. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But I get what you're saying, right? They just grow up there, yeah. Well, I guess it's the same thing, like Muslim women are allowed to have like how many of our wives or whatever, and it's okay. I just am too call me whatever insecure for all of that.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

Oh, to be like a sister wife?

SPEAKER_02 15:54

I'm not sharing. I can't share.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

To be a sister wife?

SPEAKER_02 15:58

Yeah. No. I don't know. Because they're doing what we're doing.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

It depends, but what if they're not?

SPEAKER_02 16:07

I mean, I guess that's true. You know, like what if they're just like really chilling, cool, they hang out, it's vibes. I I don't know. You're okay with this? No. Absolutely. Not if it's with someone that I actually like.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

Right. But if like I just happen to be in um in my own home somewhere over here, like we're not sharing the house. Yeah. If you want to come around from time to time, but I get to live in my own space, like mansion, private island, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

Yeah, well, that's different. Yeah, that's true. I'm fine with that. Yeah, but you're right, it depends on somebody you how much you listen. Yeah. No, yeah, absolutely not. Yeah, not here for that. No. Oh, I forgot we were doing that. Yeah, alright. Well, okay. That's real life. Yeah. Um, fiction loves a love triangle. Because love triangles force characters to make difficult emotional choices. Most love triangles aren't really about choosing between two people, they're usually about choosing between different needs, values, identities, or futures. Toxic relationships show up in fiction for a reason, too. Because conflict tension and emotional uncertainty create compelling stories. Many fictional relationships are built around longing, obstacles, or emotional intensity. Ugh, I love a good longing.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

Yeah. Those dynamics can be exciting to read about, even when they wouldn't be healthy in real life.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

Some characters are drawn to people who challenge them.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

Others are drawn to people who feel familiar, even when familiar isn't always healthy. Ugh. Fiction does a good job of showing how attachment wounds influence relationship choices. Yeah, like fear of abandonment, fear of vulnerability, and the need for validation often drive romantic storylines. The strongest relationship stories usually aren't about who gets chosen. They're about what the choice reveals about the character. Love triangles and toxic relationships keep showing up in fiction because they're emotionally compelling. They reveal what characters want, what they fear, and what they're willing to risk for love.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Yeah. Yeah. And like, I love that we covered what we were actually gonna talk about just as we were discussing this. Yeah. I feel like that always happens.

SPEAKER_02 18:35

Right. Yeah. Yeah. We're ready, we're prepared.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

Alright, let's get into it.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

Alright. I'm bringing Wynne, Liam, and Lanson from Fabric of Our Souls. And I'm bringing, I'm bringing, well I'm bringing, I'm bringing, and I'm bringing. I know. And I'm bringing Temperance, Caspian, and Leon. Leon. Leon.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Leon. Leon.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

How do you say that? Leon. Leon. From Kiss of the Basilas. Because apparently neither of us believes in making relationship decisions easy. Are they ever? Mm-hmm. We do want to note that today's books contain some mature and sentenced. Yep, they got sentences in there. We do want to note that today's books contain some mature and sensitive themes. Kiss of the basilisk includes explicit sexual content and fabric of our souls explores some heavier emotional and mental health topics. Just wanted to give everyone a heads up, especially if you're interested in checking these books out. Yeah. Heavy stuff. Well, yours was heavy stuff. Oh, you read it too. Yeah, I did. I don't remember. But like, yeah, I read it. Um, but you didn't read Kiss of the Bastilist. I told myself I was gonna read that before we got to this episode. Yeah, but it's okay. We're doing it. I know, but that was also months ago. Yeah, it's okay. Damn. Well, your sister read it, and Roshe, if you're listening, lock in.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

And she read the second one too, right?

SPEAKER_02 20:10

I know, she beat me, of course. I'm not surprised. Roshe read it already. Roshe read it already. Exactly. Alright. You want to go first, alright? Alright, I'll go first. Go. Fabric of Our Souls centers around complicated relationships, unresolved trauma, emotional dependency, and the ways love can become tangled with survival. At the center of the story is when a character pulled between Liam and Langston while simultaneously struggling to understand what safety, love, and identity actually mean for her. What makes this dynamic interesting isn't simply that there's a love triangle. It's that each relationship seems to meet a different emotional need. One relationship offers familiarity, one offers possibility, one offers chaos.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

And when trauma, grief, unmet needs, and identity struggle exists underneath attraction, relationships can quickly become less about compatibility and more about regulation.

SPEAKER_02 21:13

Wow. Well, if they if you didn't sell it before, you sold it now. Because sometimes the hardest question isn't why do I choose?

SPEAKER_01 21:20

It's why do these relationships feel necessary in the first place?

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Yeah. That book was so good. Yeah. I think it's like one of your favorites.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

Yeah, it is. It's my like favorite of that kind of book.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

Yeah, like a super dark. Super dark.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

I mean, it's like in a psych ward, essentially. An unconventional one at that.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

Yeah. And then there's murder. Yeah. And then the sacrifice. Oh my god. Listen, read this book. And like co ed rooms and other things going on.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

I started the second book, but like I you know me, right? I have a representative and that's it. That's my book. Oh Lord. That's just my favorite. But I'm gonna try. I'm gonna try to finish. Anyway, okay, so let's talk about Wynne. So Wynne presents as emotionally intense, deeply relational, loyal, and connection seeking. She appears to love hard, invest hard, feel hard, but underneath that intensity is someone who often seems pulled by emotional survival rather than emotional clarity. Throughout the story, Wynne repeatedly moves between relationships that offer different forms of security, validation, excitement, and familiarity. And while that can easily get reduced to indecisiveness, clinically it feels more complicated than that. Wynne appears caught between competing attachment needs. She wants closeness. She wants certainty. She wants freedom. She wants to be chosen. And because those needs often conflict, relationships become confusing. One of Wynne's biggest struggles seem to be distinguishing emotional intensity from emotional safety. She frequently appears to make decisions while dysregulated, overwhelmed, or reacting to loss rather than responding from stability. Wynne seems desperate for connection, but underneath that desperation may be an even bigger fear. What happens if I choose wrong? Oh my god, is this story about me again? So when we look at Wynne, right, this doesn't necessarily feel like someone who's struggling with love. It feels like someone's struggling with safety. And before, like I talk about like her, you know, her treatment plan, right? Just you remember when we meet Wynne, she's like, I think she's like in the hospital, and then she her brother takes her to like this place, this I don't know, rehab, if you will, but it's like a psych ward situation. And like I already knew like I was gonna love her, but like she also has like a condition to where she has like a weak heart and she's dying anyway, and she's just like you know, she doesn't necessarily care about being around, so yeah, it's just to see her go to that place and make friends with these two men, and you know, one is dangerous, but you're just so drawn to him, and then the other one is just like it's like my heart, like you're just so sweet, and that's a tough choice to make. Yeah, but then do you really not remember the end how one of them sacrificed themselves for no? Wow, how don't you remember? That was such a big deal. And then Crosby was his I gotta reread it. Yeah, presenting problems, relational instability, difficulty maintaining boundaries, emotional dependence, fear of abandonment, difficulty tolerating uncertainty, identity confusion with within relationships, impulsive relationship decisions, and emotional dysregulation under stress.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

Core belief. Being alone means something is wrong with me. Love should feel intense. If someone chooses me, I'm safe. I have to keep people close or I'll lose them. And making the wrong choice will ruin everything.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

Okay, so some treatment goals and objectives, increase relational stability, improve emotional regulation, strengthen identity outside of relationships, and address attachment wounds. Interventions, attachment focused therapy, CBT, emotional regulation skills, boundary work, and interpersonal effectiveness training, expected outcomes, improved relationship boundaries, increased emotional regulation, reduced reliance on external validation, more stable decision making, healthier attachment patterns, and stronger sense of self outside of relationships.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

That sounds very so like for for Wynn, when we look at her like just as a case in whole, I think this may not actually be a story about choosing between p two people. It might be a story about what happens when relationships become responsible for regulating needs they were never meant to carry. Because remember, these people that we're discussing here, or the people in this triangle, right? They're in an institution, you know, like they're like suicidal. Yeah. You know, I don't know why I paused before I said that. Yeah, no, you can't. And you know, like just imagine it's already enough intensity when you're in just a relationship with one other person, but like now when you feel like there might be competition, and then in their particular situation, they were all friends. Yeah. You know, so and they formed connections with each other separately as well. So this wasn't just a situation like, oh, I like these two guys. It's she kind of came into their situation and they had already like had some life debts to pay each other, and now she's in the mix, right?

SPEAKER_02 27:15

Yeah, yeah. But I know I don't remember specifics. Was there something with like somebody coming and laying in the bed with the other person? Am I thinking about it? Yeah, that's in the beginning of it. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. When like he was trying to like be nice to her and like Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

They were being nice to each other in weird ways because they they have their traumas, you know. Right. And yeah, his trauma was pretty huge. Like his brother is I I don't want to spoil it. Yeah, no one. But his brother is like the murderer. And the momed it. Sorry. Oops, leap. But um, yeah, the mom, like, it was this whole thing, like, try to act like nothing ever happened, or try to cover it up, or something like that. Yeah. One of his parents try to cover it up, and then in the end, Crosby comes looking for them, like his brother, and like he the other guy, the friend that she didn't pick, right? He went and he sacrificed, like, he literally gave his heart for hers so that she can live. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

Oh, yeah, I remember that now.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Because they were running away. But it was like she decides which one she's gonna be with, and then the other one, she ends up like because his brother is a murderer and he's on the loose and he's looking for them. His brother, like, he can like come down and he has moments like where he's lucid. Right. She he has moments when he's lucid and he doesn't remember any of it. Like, I don't remember if it was a car crash or like literally something, right? And so he'll come out and not know anything, but then something happens and then he just switches back to Crosby. Yeah, so yeah, so he he was gonna sacrifice himself and let her go off with the other guy, but he ended up sacrificing, so they both sacrificed.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

Yeah, such an interesting dynamic. That was a really yeah, it's a really good book. It's just sensitive. If you like it's really dark, yeah, so like, but if you're into that, check it out.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

Yeah, it's it's there's like self-induced behaviors in there and a lot of talk of SI, yeah, yeah, and attempts and actual death.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

Yeah, so it's a lot, and then like of course, the unconventional psych facility in itself is a little concerning, but you know.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

Like just being able to leave and go on pack, right? But that's what I'm saying. It's not it's not like a locked ward, but it's more of a controlled environment. You know, a place where you used to work a structured environment. Like if that place was um open door not open door policy, but like open door, open bay, not open bay, that's a different thing.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

Open bay if the door's not locked. Yeah. Alright. Alright, what about your couch? Alright, well, on my couch, I have Temperance, Caspin, and Leo. AKA Leon. But he goes by Leo in the book. Um, from Kiss of the Basilisk by Lindsay Straub Straub. Straub Straub, what you doing, what you doing, what you doing? That's like your favorite thing to say now. Charles. Um Charles. Alright. Focus. Okay. Kiss of the Basilisk follows Bladellos. Kiss of the Basilisk follows Temperance Varys, a poor farm girl who enters a royal competition where women compete for the hand of the Prince Leo, the future king. Before the competition can begin, the women are sent to train with basilisks, powerful serpent shifters who have a long and complicated history with humans. Um, during her training, Tem is paired with Caspin. Is Temperatures? Temperance. Temperance. Yeah. During her training, Tem is paired with Caspin, the feared serpent king. What starts as a reluctant partnership quickly develops into an intense emotional and physical connection filled with chemistry, tension, and growing loyalty. The problem is that Tem is still competing for Leo. So long story short, Tem has to learn basically how to fuck. You know, like this book is so spicy. It's like 10-star spice in here, and it's disgusting and filthy, and like put it in your freezer. So if you like that, just be prepared. But basically, she has to train with Caspin to win over Leo because there's a whole bunch of girls competing with them. But now she starts falling for Caspin. And like she gotta still try to win over Leo.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 32:18

Okay, so as she gets to know him, she realizes Leo is far more than a royal title. He is kind, emotionally intelligent, and genuinely interested in her, creating a second relationship that becomes increasingly difficult to ignore. As political tensions in the background rise between humans and basilisks, Tem finds herself caught between two kings, two worlds, and two very different relationships. One offers passion, intensity, and a connection that feels impossible to resist. The other offers stability, safety, and a future that makes sense. At the core, Kiss of the Basilisk is a story about love, loyalty, desire, and the complicated reality that chemistry, compatibility, emotional safety, and emotional intensity are not always the same thing. Yeah, I feel like you would love this book.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

Alright. Presenting problem behaviors. Now I did a couple for like each person. So bear with me. Temperance, difficulty separating attraction from compatibility. Uh becoming emotionally attached to relationships that meet different needs. Caspin is vulnerability expressed through intensity and possessiveness, and emotional intensity becoming confused with emotional intimacy. And Leo remaining emotionally invested despite ambiguity and sacrificing his own emotional needs to stay connected. Core themes. Um, for temperance, attraction versus compatibility, chemistry versus emotional safety. For Caspin, it's obsession versus intimacy and emotional intensity versus emotional safety. And for Leo, it's stability versus excitement and emotional availability. Core beliefs for temperance, if I choose one path, I'll lose something I can't replace. For Caspin, if I let go, I'll lose the person I want most. And for Leo, if I stay long enough, eventually I be I'll be chosen. Which is crazy because like when you look at their all their perspectives, like it's just it's a lot. Um so treatment goals and interventions, um, identifying differences between attraction, attachment, compatibility, and emotional safety. This would be for all of them, by the way. Um, explore attachment fears beneath protective behaviors, improve emotional communication beyond intensity and possessiveness, strengthen self-worth independent of relationship outcomes, and improve boundary setting within emotionally ambiguous situations. So, what progress looks like for temperance, making decisions based on values rather than urgency, recognizing that emotional intensity is not automatically emotional safety for Caspin, expresses vulnerability directly instead of through intensity and control, develops healthier responses to jealousy and insecurity because he really is like on another level with his possessiveness. Um, and I feel like that might be why you like it. Yep. Um, and with Leo prioritizes self-respect alongside emotional investment and establishes boundaries when relationships become unhealthy. Um, so the outcome, the growth within this dynamic is not ultimately about who wins the love triangle, it's about understanding why each relationship feels compelling in the first place. Together, their story explores the reality that chemistry, compatibility, desire, obsession, emotional safety, and emotional intensity are often different things, and confusing them from one another can create enormous emotional chaos. Part of their growth involves recognizing that beyond that being deeply affected by someone does not automatically mean they're healthy for you. So yeah, there's a lot going on there. Yeah. And like I'm just like, as I was doing my notes, I'm like, wow, like there was so much more going on underneath all the smut that was happening. Cause it's hard to like it's like 90% smut, but there isn't like storyline.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

See, that's the thing. Like if it's all smut, it's hard for me to like.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

So at first, so at first I was like, okay, like this is but then like you start seeing like, oh, there's other shit going on. Like there's a war between the basilisks and the humans, and they gotta wall, like it's a whole thing. So like it it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 36:43

If you say it's worth it, because like the I think it's the priest just like lives in my freezer.

SPEAKER_02 36:49

Yeah. But that one had a good like did it? It ended like I didn't get through it. I know because I finished it and then I couldn't start the next one. Where did you stop? Well, you probably don't even remember.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

But yeah, I get why you put that in the freezer too. That one was really and it had that religious context too, and it was so smuddy. Alright, Christmas dream time. Alright, Christmas dream. What? All right, treatment team time. Well, look at the scribs.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

Well, you just told me what it was while I get to it. Why can't I just say that? Yeah, because you're not because you see the Christmas tree.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

All right, treatment team meeting. Clipboards out. If Wynn walked into my office, my first impression would probably be this is someone who is exhausted. Not because she doesn't care, because caring seems to consume her. She'd likely present as insightful and emotionally aware, but I'd immediately wonder how much space she gives herself when relationships aren't taking center stage.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

Hmm. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 38:01

If Tem, Caspin, and Leo walked into my office, I think my first question would be who scheduled this appointment? Because honestly, I don't think we have one client. I think the relationship itself is the client. So my clinical impressions are. Yeah, what are your clinical impressions? My clinical impressions, I knew you forgot too. I wasn't gonna remind you because you need to get with it. This is 18 sessions in.

SPEAKER_00 38:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 38:29

Get it together. Okay. Clinically, the dynamic presents as highly attachment activated, emotionally reactive, and fueled by competing emotional needs. One relationship feels intense, consuming, and emotionally magnetic. The other feels safer, more stable, and easier to build a future around. Which one you think I liked? The intense, consuming, and emotionally magnetic one, of course. Um, and one thing we'd immediately be exploring is whether the strongest connection in the room is also the healthiest one. Because attraction and emotional safety don't always point towards the same person. All right, what are your clinical impressions?

SPEAKER_01 39:08

So, um, when gives anxious attachment energy. There's a strong pull towards connection, a strong fear of loss, and a tendency for relationships to become emotionally central very quickly.

SPEAKER_02 39:22

I am Win, and when is there also seems to be difficulty tolerating uncertainty when relationships feel unstable?

SPEAKER_01 39:30

She becomes unstable.

SPEAKER_02 39:32

Hello, this was my crash out literally on this weekend.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

And a lot of what initially looks like relationship confusion may actually be attachment activation.

SPEAKER_02 39:43

Yeah, this is so relatable.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

Last week it was me. This week it's you.

SPEAKER_02 39:49

Yeah. Man. This is why I love what we're doing. Cause it's like I hear it clinically, what I went through.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:59

And it's just like whole, like I'm her. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Exactly. What they say versus reality. Okay. Alright.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

So Wen would probably describe the issue as choosing. Choosing Liam, choosing Lansston, choosing correctly. But clinically, the bigger issue feels like emotional dependence because when relationships become the primary source of safety, every decision starts feeling like life or death.

SPEAKER_02 40:25

Wait, stop. No, it's me again. No, this is me too, though. Oh my god. Yeah, okay. All right. Tem would probably say she's confused. I'm confused. Shut out to Barbara. Barbara. You like my spread. What? What? Mary, what'd she say? Camisole? Camisole. What are we talking about? A camel toe. Yeah, and called it camel sole. She was like, oh, you have my camisole? And I'm like, no, Barb.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

Oh, your camel toe.

SPEAKER_02 40:59

Wait, there is something about Mary Jane, too. Yeah. She said, who's Mary Jane? Yeah. Oh, Barb. She's a big thing. Shout out to Barb. She's a great therapist. Yeah, she is. Wherever she is. Yeah. She's not listening to us, that's for sure. Um, Caspin would probably say he knows exactly what he wants. Leo would probably say he's willing to wait. See, Leo, I can't deal with you because you were me also. But the reality is that all three are struggling with uncertainty, attachment, fear of loss, and different ideas of what love is supposed to feel like. Yeah. Why is treatment team eating hitting so hard right now? It's right. It's because it's like I'm hearing the things out loud. Which is like what y'all need to do in therapy is hear the things out loud because they hit different. Yeah. From like inside your head to out loud. Okay, what would you work on first?

SPEAKER_01 41:54

No, but like even about what you're saying before what I would work on, like just thinking about like because no, like you're saying, like, the dynamics reveal that love isn't straightforward.

SPEAKER_02 42:08

Oh, so it was just a natural segue. It involves like deep emotional connections, like jealousy, the potential for heartache. Each character brings unique feelings and bonds to the table. She has so much emotion in her hands right now, guys. You can't see it, but it's beautiful. No, one day you'll see it. One day it's supposed to be this episode. I know. Next season. But no, so each character brings unique feelings and bonds to the table, creating a web of affection that complicates the relationship. Also provides them with emotional support. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

Um, okay, so what I'd actually work on first, um, first stabilization, not the triangle, not choosing, not fixing the relationships.

unknown 42:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:54

I'd want to know who are you when nobody's choosing you? Like from there, from their distress tolerance, emotional regulation, attachment work, and building identity outside relationships. I'm just sorry. I'm putting that in our text so I can send it to you. Why? To remind you, who are you when no one is choosing you? I don't want to ever know that. Well, you need to find out. No, I'm joking. I know exactly who. If you don't, that's self-sabotage. No, yeah. No, you do know who you are. The first thing we'd focus on is helping everyone identify what emotional need each relationship is meeting. Very, very that makes sense. Very, very makes sense. Very, very makes sense in that kind of dynamic. Because underneath all the chemistry, jealousy, tension, and conflict are very real attachment needs driving the entire dynamic. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:58

Alright, count of trans. Damn. Okay, so sorry, that was so extra.

SPEAKER_01 44:07

No. Working with Wynn, I'd probably feel protective. And I feel like this is a theme for me and my clients. Like I always kind of feel protective. Um but anyway, but I'd also have to watch for rescue fantasies. Because clients who repeatedly enter painful dynamics can unintentionally pull providers into wanting to solve the relationship instead of understanding the function of it.

SPEAKER_02 44:36

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a really good uh countertransference part there. Um for me, I would um there'd probably be moments where this dynamic feels exhausting because everybody's reacting to each other while simultaneously reacting to their own fears. Um, but there would also be a lot of empathy because most people have experienced a relationship that felt far more complicated than it needed to be because attraction was clouding clarity. Because attraction was clouding clarity. Wow, that's a tongue twisted.

SPEAKER_01 45:16

Class clown, clouding the class clown, class clowns and clowns, but yeah, attraction was clouding clarity, which like yeah, I also would like I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 45:31

First of all, I would never do this in real life because like a love triangle you would never be in one, or you mean like for therapy? I would absolutely be in. I feel like I have been in one where I've had needs being met from two different people, and like and that would be my counter transference, right?

SPEAKER_01 45:51

Do you remember my love triangle back in the day, and my needs were being met from both of those people, yeah, like in different ways. Yeah, yeah, but like you know, it was a double triangle.

SPEAKER_02 46:08

That's right. It was like a double triangle, it was like you know how they do like um what are those things we do in school when we start a social work school? A geneogram. Oh yeah, it was like a triangulogram, like it just branched out, yeah, yeah. But yeah, listen, I'm not saying that it's okay. I'm just saying I understand why like needs can be met from two different people and why people are attracted to that. Because again, like you might not want to leave a relationship because it's safe or you're comfortable there or whatever it might be. But your needs really aren't being met. It's just you feel safe.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

Like, are you gonna take the time to like train somebody or like try to change them? They're still trying to they're still trying to figure it out themselves too, like, especially when you're younger and you have those young relationships and you're like telling someone I need this from you, and they can't even figure out what they need for themselves yet. So, like they're not gonna change. Yeah, so you get that need met somewhere else from somebody who doesn't have that deficiency, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:13

Or they have it, they're more aware, right? Yeah, it happens, it just it happens, all right. All interventions interventions, yeah. Okay, attachment work would be huge. There would also be a lot of exploration around what emotional need does Liam meet? What emotional need does need does Lanson meet? Because sometimes triangles aren't about multiple people, they're about multiple unmet needs. Yeah, exactly. Um a lot of work here would focus on attachment patterns, like you just said, emotional awareness, communication, and boundary setting. We'd spend a lot of time helping helping them separate chemistry from compatibility, intensity from intimacy, desire from emotional safety, and helping them identify when emotional intensity is being mistaken for love. Which is a really good point because just because you feel like emotionally intense, it doesn't mean you're like in love with someone. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:16

But for people, right, like that they don't really feel big feelings, that can easily be mistaken, right?

SPEAKER_02 48:24

It's like, oh my gosh, I've never felt this before. This is yeah, love that's very true. All right, speaking of the truth, yep, the hard truth, okay. My hard truth. When being chosen matters more than being healthy relationships, stop feeling like connection and start feeling like survival. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, I know we can relate. We're in the house of mirrors right now. We are in the house of mirrors, but not one mirror in sight. Yeah, they're all it's here, it's the mental mirrors that we have up. Yeah. Well, the hard truth is that intensity is not proof of love, and sometimes the relationships that feel most consuming are also the relationships causing the most emotional damage. Emotional damage acknowledged. Yeah, true. All right, let's bring it back to real life for the people. Okay, so listen, I think this is why relationship triangles hit such an herb. Because most people have experienced some version of this, maybe not multiple love interests, but definitely staying too long, confusing chemistry for compatibility, wanting someone who feels familiar even when the familiar hurts, and asking why do I keep ending up here? Yeah. I don't even know. That's yeah. Yeah. Man. I hope this is hitting for like people listening as much as it's hitting for I mean it has to, right? This is real life. All right. Well, I'm gonna bring it back to real life now. A lot of people get stuck in toxic relationship dynamics because intensity can feel more convincing than compatibility. Sometimes people spend so much time asking who they should choose that they never stop to ask why they're drawn to the relationship in the first place. And sometimes what feels like love is actually anxiety, uncertainty, or emotional activation disguised as connection. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:48

Mic drop. I have nothing else to add to that. Okay. That's it. Cool. Well, then comes the pain, the pain, the pain, and the pats. Alright. Go ahead. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 51:05

So for when because this book, I feel, was like okay. I just feel like my moment, my real moment, might be too much.

SPEAKER_02 51:18

Okay. Like, because the book is like it's so heavy. You know, so I'm gonna do a general. Okay. Right? So when win becomes increasingly pulled between relationships that each offer different forms of emotional safety, validation, and attachment. But on the side of that, I just want to honorably mention, like, when she no, like, I want people to read this. If you haven't read this, yeah. Yeah, you don't want to ruin it. I don't want to ruin it. Okay, that's fair. That's fair. Then don't do that. So pain and pull right. So the pain fears abandonment, seeks connection during emotional distress, manages tolerating uncertainty, relationships become tied to identity, confuses emotional intensity with emotional security. The shift begins recognizing unhealthy patterns, questions what she actually wants, slowly separates need from compatibility, starts considering herself within the equation. The plot. The triangle exposes attachment wounds, fear influences decision making, emotional survival drives relationship choices. But because Wynne begins questioning the cycle, she gains insight, and because insight creates choice, the triangle becomes bigger than romance.

SPEAKER_01 52:48

So the question becomes when does love become connection and when does it become coping?

SPEAKER_02 52:55

Like respectfully, at what point do we stop calling this a love triangle and start calling it like an attachment emergency? Yeah. No, for real. Yeah. In a literal emergency, yes. Yeah. Wow, that was good.

SPEAKER_00 53:10

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 53:10

That was coming. I gotta reread this book now because it's so good. Yeah. And like just being in a different place in life. Like, you know, I'm starting to learn that reading things when you're a different at a different place in life is just different. Yeah. Different space and different place. Alright, for me, the moment was the point where Tem realizes her feelings for Leo are genuine while already deeply attached to Caspin, forcing her to confront not only a love triangle, but the uncomfortable reality that the relationship consuming the most emotional energy may not be the healthiest one. So the pain, becoming attached to relationships that fulfill different emotional needs, fearing that choosing that choosing one connection means losing another. The shift 10 begins evaluating relationships based on values rather than intensity. Caspin learns that intimacy cannot be built through possession or emotional urgency. What that don't mean they love you when they're possessive? That's craziness. That's fiction. That's nonsense. Blasphemy. Alright. And Leo stops confusing patients with emotional reciprocity. Loki, I was Leo in my old relationship. Like that was me. I'm triggered. Okay. The plot, healthier relationship decisions rooted in emotional clarity, stronger boundaries, and increased awareness of toxic relationship patterns. And relationships become based on intentional choice rather than emotional momentum. Love that. Um, was the pain worth the plots?

SPEAKER_00 54:57

Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 54:59

I love a love triangle, so I'm not answering that. I just like yeah. I love the plot and the plot.

SPEAKER_01 55:08

For me, I don't think the pain was worth the plot.

SPEAKER_02 55:11

No, yeah, that's a different story.

SPEAKER_01 55:13

Yeah, yeah. I wanted everyone to be okay.

SPEAKER_02 55:15

Yeah, yeah. That's safety now. But it was such a good book because of it. Yeah. Like not because you know, beautiful story. Yeah. We don't think you're saying it's okay to be in crisis at all. Well, I don't. If y'all can't figure that out, then turn us off. Goodbye. Yeah. Alright. Alright. It's time for fun. Alright, so next up, love triangle or personal crisis.

SPEAKER_00 55:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 55:42

Because sometimes a character isn't choosing between two people. They're choosing between two coping mechanisms. Okay, so we're gonna like say the prompts and then you say is it a love triangle or personal crisis? Alright, so is it a love triangle or a personal crisis? Okay. They can't decide between the safe choice and the exciting choice. I mean, that's a love triangle to me because there's one safe choice and there's one exciting choice, but it's also a personal crisis at the same time. What do you think? I think both, but maybe it's a love triangle. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. They genuinely love both people for different reasons. That's a personal crisis. Oh, that's a love triangle. I love it. Okay. Alright. They're terrified of making the wrong decision. That's a personal crisis. That's me. So is it a personal crisis or a love triangle? I don't know. I'm already too stressed out. I have a decision to make. Alright, segment rep. No, I'm just they don't know who they are outside of a relationship. That's a personal crisis. They want one person but feel obligated to choose another. That's a love triangle. Yeah. Yeah. They're choosing between comfort and growth. Personal crisis. Personal crisis. They're staying because they don't want to hurt anyone. Oh lord. Personality. An idiot. They're more afraid of being alone than unhappy. That's a personal crisis. Yeah, I agree. They're choosing between who they've been and who they're becoming. That's a personal crisis. They don't actually want either person. They just don't know yet. Um that could be a love triangle. Alright, chaotic edition. This is about with characters, I suppose. Okay, they've spent four books unable to choose. That's your life. Is that a love triangle or a personal crisis? Ah that's a personal crisis. Yeah. They're in love with one person and emotionally dependent on the other. That's a love triangle to me. Yeah. They don't need a boyfriend. They need a nap. That's a personal crisis. Yes. Okay. They keep switching every time somebody makes them mad. Well, what's the answer? I heard it's crazy more. Um okay. They've mistaken attention for love. Yeah, okay. You put these in here, bro. No, I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. Okay. Okay. That's a love crisis. That's a love crisis. Put both of them together. I love it. They're trying to fill a void that neither person created. That's my personal crisis. Yeah. They're treating romance like a personality test. Oh, that's a frustrating order. They don't know what they want.

SPEAKER_01 59:07

I swear I was in here. I even look at a different font than our regular.

SPEAKER_02 59:12

That's not true. I swear on okay. Yeah. Yeah. I swear on whoever's life that you love the most. They don't know what they want, but they're ruining everyone's life trying to figure it out. It's a personal crisis. Uh-huh. They're choosing between two therap two therapy. They're choosing between two people when the real answer is therapy. You know what's funny? It's like I see what you're reading, and it's like they're choosing, and then you just trigger-fingered all the way to the last sentence, to the last word. But I was like, I was also thinking two therapists who you know our intro. Okay, they're choosing between two people when the real answer is therapy. That's a personal crisis. Yeah. And a love triangle. Mm-hmm. They should absolutely pick themselves, but we all know they're not going to. It's a personal crisis. Okay, let's move on. So you don't feel personally. Yeah, welcome to love, lust, or therapy. We're gonna read relationship situations. We're gonna read situationships. No. We're gonna read relationship situations and determine what's actually happening. Is it love? Is it lust? Or is it a therapy referral? Let's go. Okay. Alright. They have incredible chemistry, but fundamentally want different things. Is it love? Is it lust or a therapy referral?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:47

Um, you know, maybe I feel like I could I could send these. I might send them to therapy. I know it's early. I was thinking the same myself.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:02

Like let's get to it now and see what our deal breakers are, see what whatever, you know, your goals. 100% was thinking along the same lines. Like they have the chemistry. Because if that's there, then like we can figure it out. So let's go to therapy. High five. Very nice. All right. One success. Great success. One person keeps hurting the other, but promises they'll change. That's I don't know. That's it can't be love because then you wouldn't keep hurting the other person, right? I don't think it's lust either. I think it's a therapy referral. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Individual therapy, maybe, not couples. Okay. They're more in love with the idea of each other than reality. That could be lust to me. Yeah. Yeah. They genuinely make each other better people. That's love. Mm-hmm. Definitely. Alright. Unhinged. Alright. Their primary form of communication is intense eye contact. Oh. It's giving lust. It's giving lust, for sure. Agreed. They've been enemies for 600 years, and somehow this is flirting. It's enemies the love is. Yeah. Yeah. They know absolutely nothing about each other except for they're hot. That's lust. It's um Man and Dorian when they first met. Oh yeah. Oh, but that turned into love. Yeah. Well, I mean, I guess lust can turn into love at some point. Okay, the relationship has caused at least one war. That's therapy referral. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. They've mistaken being needed for being loved. That's a therapy referral. Yeah. Just go. Yep. Go to therapy. If you're mistaking being needed for being loved, go to therapy immediately. Call a mental health professional. It's not a crisis, but it will turn into one. Yeah. They're more afraid of losing the relationship than they are of being unhappy in it. That's a therapy referral. Absolutely. Therapy. They think suffering together is the same thing as intimacy. That's therapy too. Therapy. Yeah. They genuinely bring out the best in one another. That's love.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:21

Yeah. They become obsessed the second someone pulls away.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:28

That's a therapy referral. Yeah. Referral. Yeah. They need constant reassurance that they're loved. Why are you looking over here? I'm not looking. I'm reading my phone. At least look with love. I too love you, but I was looking down. I just did one of these. Uh-huh. Um, I love you. That's your reassurance. They push people away the second things get serious. Self-sabotage. Yeah. And therapy. They're attracted to people who remind them of old wounds. Ugh. Gross. That's therapy. Yeah. Wow. They've had one meaningful conversation and are convinced they're soulmates. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:18

It could be lust. It could be love. It could be therapy.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:22

All three. I agree with you. They've built an entire relationship off eye contact and vibes.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:28

It could be love. It could be lust. It could be therapy.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:31

I'm going with lust for that one. But I see where you're going. Yeah. Okay. They know each other's trauma, but not each other's favorite color. I feel like that could be lust. It's me. Like, that could be love. Because like, who cares about your favorite color? Tell me about your trauma. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Because like you wouldn't tell someone about your trauma that you didn't love. Or trust, at least. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:59

And then, like, somewhere in the trauma, it's gonna be like, and that's why my favorite color is such a that's the end of the story.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:05

Exactly. Oh, that was beautiful, friend. Full circle. They've planned their future together despite never actually dating. That is stupid. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Red flag. They confuse possessiveness with passion. See, I'm toxic then because yeah, I love possessive men. In my mind, yes. I understand how that can be whatever, emotionally abusive. Like I get it. It's not for everybody. Yeah. It's for me though. Okay. Yeah, but like they do it in the books. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's like the longing kind of possessiveness. But also, no, I like a little bit of toxic possessiveness too. Yeah, but I'm more of the longing. Yeah. Alright. They're constantly trying to save each other. Psych word. Yes. What the hell? They've become each other's entire support system. I mean, I don't see anything wrong with that. Uh, I do. The entire support system. Well, maybe they don't have anybody else. Well, maybe they need somebody else. Okay, so maybe they should go to therapy. Yeah, they should. Okay. Yeah. I love that we have different point of views. Yeah. It's not cool because, like, what if you gotta rely on it?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:31

What if you need somebody else's opinion? You can't go to your significant other. Yeah. Right? Like, well, y'all just gonna fight. Like, sometimes maybe you do need to chill the fuck out and be like, okay, you were tripping, like just chill. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:44

Versus you continuing to tell him why you weren't tripping. He's gonna see it his way. You know what? Now that you're saying it out loud and I'm thinking about real life, like I couldn't imagine my whole support system being on my significant other. Because that's why double dates are important, you know. That's why like hanging out with other people are important. You get to look and see yourself reflected in these relationships, and it's like it's healthy. It's not just oh, I think this will be cool for us to meet. And that's the thing. Like, I don't hang out with other people, so but I need like I'm saying, I couldn't have just his point of view without having yours because you are like my grounding person, like just we're on a different level.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:27

Yeah, very true. All right, I changed my people. Yes, but this is what happens when you talk things through, you have a moment, you know. You're offered you're a professional of reflection. Of reflection. They don't trust each other, but they can't let each other go. No. Is it love, lust, or therapy?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:52

I have birds chirping now.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:56

Oh my god, yeah, because you opened the window.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:59

But then I pushed it all the way down, it's just a little slurry. I like the little chirping. But we both have birds outside of our windows. It's once upon a session. Oh my god, it's like snow white.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:08

It's literally like our magical fantasy whistle.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:12

But how she whistles and the birds come. Because it's a once upon a session.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:16

But it's our magical doorway versus the city.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:19

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:21

I love how is the city, outside that window is the magical every time another man talks to her. Okay, see now the media. I love it. Yeah. Come here. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Growl. Growl. Please. Yes. Every time another man looks at me, talks to me anything. Okay, she forgives him. She forgives him after he lies for the 15th time because his childhood was sad. Psych word. Yeah, what the fuck? Put that shit on PC. Two PC one-on-one. Yeah. Exactly. Yes. Yes. All right. He says stay away from me while following her everywhere. Restraining order. Yeah, restraining order. Thank you. Oh my god. Okay, they've declared uh eternal devotion before discussing basic compatibility.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:24

It's too much.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:25

It's definitely a lot. Eternal devotion? It's um therapy. Okay. Yeah. All right. Okay. This is therapist edition. They're staying because of history, not happiness. That's bullshit, and I did it, and I needed therapy. Yeah. Period. Okay. They're trying to heal through the relationship instead of healing themselves. That's therapy. Yeah. Sorry. All of these are probably gonna be therapy. Yeah. They love each other deeply but want completely different futures. Oh that's therapy and depression. Yeah. They don't actually trust each other, then break up. But they love each other. That can be love. Okay, so therapy. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. That's it. Any uh final thoughts on love triangles and relationships before we do our teaser. So where do we start? And toxic relationships. I'm a little I have a I'm a little toxic, not gonna lie. Not too, too toxic, but like I'll be sarcastic in a way where I need attention or validation or something, but I'll be like, haha, just kidding. But it's like, no, I'm not kidding, you know? But I'm toxic. I feel like I've had petty moments and toxic moments. I don't know, keeps things interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:54

Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:57

I um I've only ever been in one toxic relationship. Um and I'm gonna just stay away from those. Okay. But I've been in many love triangles. Yeah, I've been in some of those too. Yeah, and um Yeah. Yeah. And I get it. I get it. I totally get it. Why? I'm not saying it's oh oh it's not a good thing. Because you know you get hurt.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:25

You can be on either point of that love triangle. You can be like dependent on what type of triangle it is, you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:34

Um, but yeah. Yeah. You can be on either side. Right. At any time. I know what you're saying, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like it's so funny because I feel like with me personally, I was like, you know what, I understand what this is, and I know, and I'm gonna be okay. I'm gonna just keep telling myself this is what it is. But like, no, you end up have getting feelings because again, there there's a need being met that's being unmet from the other, whatever, again, whatever side of the triangle you're on. And it's like you can't people can't help feel what they feel.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:10

And it's not healthy at all. I ended up it was nothing, it was a temporary situation and it was not it didn't feel good at the end. It felt great in the moment.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:25

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it doesn't always have to be like a big thing, like it doesn't have to be like involving marriage, like cheating, like to that extent.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:36

It can just be like you haven't committed to either person, or you know, you're just out dating. Dating is it's I was about to say dating is illegal. Yeah, like dating is legal, like it's fair to date other people while people are dating other people. Like you decide who you want to spend your time with, you just go on more dates with that person, and then before you know it, you're going on multiple dates, and that becomes the one person if that's the life you're living, right? So, like you're allowed to get some. Yeah, it's not like oh you're a cheater, you're whatever, but you can be in that situation.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:10

I've been in situations before where like I started to really like a guy and I didn't know he was married, yeah. You know, because he didn't tell me because what am I supposed to right?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:19

I'm supposed to do research on you. Like this is obviously younger days, but like what am I gonna do? Yeah. Well, how were you supposed to know that? Because of that now, I'm in a love triangle, and you you know how like um what's this called? The House of the Dragon just came on. Like, I was in a love triangle situation when I first got put on the Game of Thrones. Oh and I think it was like season four or something like that. Okay, and I don't I feel like that's where I was watching it. Yeah that time it's like this full circle moment. This person's wife just like comes home. Oh my god, yes, I remember you telling me this story. Oh well, hello. I have no idea who you are, yeah, or that I am intruding. Yeah, you know, like it was cool, yeah, you know. What wait, I literally just forgot that I was in a love triangle and I thought I was like the main character. And I was actually the side piece, yeah. So that was a love triangle, it was a cheating. So exactly, and it had nothing to do. That's what I'm saying. You can be on either end of that, right? But I literally just thought of that. Yeah, yeah. Because I've been in like the ones like that where I didn't know I was, and then the ones I knew because it wasn't I wasn't in that other side of the triangle, that wasn't my business. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:49

Yeah. But you learn, right? Like you live and you learn.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:52

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:54

But that hurt that comes when you feel like you've been betrayed within that love triangle, that hurts, especially because if you believe what the person's telling you, yeah, and you know, it's just it, I guess this is where it can cross over into toxic relationships because then you're believing what the person's telling you. You might be getting gaslit by the person, then you're making excuses for them, start defending, and then you start to disappear in all that. So it's like, you know, I love a toxic relationship. You know me, like I mean toxic, like the fun toxic, not call me 43 times back to back, right? Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:34

And then don't pick up for a day and a half when I'm trying to make sure you're okay, you know, like that kind of toxic, like a cat and mouse toxic. Yeah, no, right. That's what I meant by I like toxic too, not like Yeah, but that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:47

Like, so it can be fun toxic, and it can be a fun little love triangle.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:53

It it doesn't always have to go to the extreme, and that's my um final thought. I think that's a very important point because I think when you say toxic relationships and love triangles, it's a negative connotation, like somebody's cheating on somebody or somebody's stepping out, or you know, whatever. It's a bad abusive situation, you know? But like, yeah, can be some fun in it too with healthy boundaries.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:17

Yeah, not like the boundaries from my characters of my book. Yeah, we're like exactly self-injuring themselves together, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:26

Yeah, like crazy suicide packs and whatnot. Yeah, yeah. All right, that's that's the wrap. So what we going on? What we got next week. Next week, we're talking about something we both love. Books about books, and we're diving into stories where literature becomes part of the plot for magical books and forgotten stories, the characters who find comfort, identity, and connection through reading. And honestly, there's something special about watching fictional characters love books as much as we do. Yeah, I love it. Uh so next session, we're exploring why stories matter and why authors keep putting them inside other stories.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:08

Yeah, they're like the little Russian doll of stories.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:10

I love it. I just um I was talking to somebody about this. I think it was that person, and they were like, oh, it's like an inception. Like, you know, it's like a you know inception when there's like something inside of something, but like it was cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:26

But what are we talking about? Oh, the books.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:28

About like stories inside of the stories, and they were like, oh, it's a lit inception or something. Like it was clever. Oh, that's cute. Shout out to that person. You know who you are if you're listening.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:38

It's very clever, very clever.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:40

All right, well, bibbity bop. We want you to be sorry. I'm sorry. We're so excited that we're picking you out. We're so we're so excited to get the lit. Bye. Bye, yeah, whatever. You know. Okay, that's it for this session. See you next week. We want you to be a part of this world with us. Send us your book recommendations, character obsessions, and topics or topics you want us to cover. Yeah, you can find us on Instagram and TikTok at once upon a session pod. Come on, people, message us, comment, let us know you love us, let us know something, let us know you hate us, whatever. Don't tell us that. No, tell us that. Or email us at once upon. That's why we're not getting emails.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:25

Or email us at info at onceuponasessionpod.com if you want to share thoughts, suggestions, or just scream about a plot twist with us.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:33

Yes. Alright. So are we charging for this session? Emotionally, always. See you next session, same pale. Come on. You yelled at me for abandoning you last week, and now you're just acting. See how toxic she is? Okay, see you next session. Same couch, same chaos, thank you. I feel so validated because I say same couch. Okay, let's get to our time. See you next session. Same couch, same chaos. Yeah, perfect. Alright, thank you guys for the second so you see you get in our friendship dynamic here. What's that? Chiming? Like, I decided.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:27

It's what's up on a session. It's the fantasy door window. It is. Oh, I like I could. You know, I was thinking about moving the flowers over here on my bed.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:38

I want to put it over my bed. I want to start putting my books up on that wall. I want to fill out the books that are like open.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:00

Oh my god. I want to put them in a frame and I want this to be my like uh this way I can use the wall. I might be able to like.