Once Upon a Session
Once Upon a Session is a podcast where two therapists bring their love for books, storytelling, and emotional insight together. Each session explores a theme — attachment, grief, love, trauma, healing — through the lens of fictional characters and real-life growth. It’s cozy, funny, heartfelt, and deeply human.
Once Upon a Session
Session 20: Where’s Molly & It Ends With Us— Losing You, Losing Me
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Fear of abandonment isn’t just about being afraid of someone leaving.
Sometimes it becomes the reason we lose ourselves trying to make them stay.
In this episode, we explore fear of abandonment and codependency through Lily from It Ends With Us and Molly from Where’s Molly. Together, their stories reveal how early attachment wounds, trauma, and insecurity can blur the line between love and dependence—and why walking away can feel impossible, even when a relationship is causing harm.
Because healing isn’t about convincing someone else to stay.
It’s about learning that healthy love doesn’t require abandoning yourself.
Disclaimer: We’re licensed therapists, but we’re not your therapists. Everything shared here is for conversation, reflection, and entertainment.
✨ Follow Once Upon a Session for new episodes where two therapists turn their TBR pile into treatment plans—and every story becomes a session.
All right, fella.
SPEAKER_01Okay. I think one of the hardest questions someone can ask themselves is why is it so hard to let go?
SPEAKER_00Sometimes the answer is codependency. Sometimes it's fear of abandonment.
SPEAKER_01More often than not, it's low. When we're afraid of losing someone, we can start making decisions. We can start making decisions from that fear instead of what's actually mean. Don't do that. When we're afraid of losing someone, we can start making decisions from that fear instead of from what we actually need. And before we know it, we've spent so much time trying to keep the relationship that we've stopped protecting ourselves. Today's session is about the psychology behind codependency and fear of abandonment. And how those patterns can quietly shape the relationships we build, the choices we make, and the stories we tell ourselves. This is Once Upon a Session, where two therapists turn their TBR pile into treatment plans, and every story becomes a session. I'm Vanessa and I'm Nerisa. I'm the one who's already preparing for people to leave. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I'm the one trying to convince everyone to stay. Mm-hmm. Oh my god, we're opposites again. Okay. Oh god.
SPEAKER_01I feel like I should know this off the top of my head. Okay, whatever. Just a quick note before we dive in. I was just thinking that when I was saying the first part. Like from that. That's funny. Oh wow. Wow. Okay. We're both licensed therapists, but we're not your therapists. Everything we share here is for conversation, reflection, and maybe a little inspiration. But it's not a substitute for therapy. If you're struggling, please reach out to a mental health professional who can give you the care and support you deserve. Good job. First try. Now that you're all checked in, have a seat on our couch.
SPEAKER_00Hello. Hello, people. Welcome back.
SPEAKER_01Thanks. Oops. Thanks for coming.
SPEAKER_02Why am I still doing that? And we finished got you with Pippi. I don't know. With the accent thing.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm. Anyway, what's going on? Oh my god. I feel like so much has happened. So much just happened. Okay, like. I don't even remember what happened. So many things happened. I I'm just thinking, like, yesterday, for example, this is about books. Rebecca Yarros announced her little not book four. Oh yeah. Like I'm glad for it, but I don't know that I'm like I'm not gonna read it right now. Me neither. I'm not. Like I'm happy for it, but like I'm good also. Yeah, and then HD Colton is like call her. I'm excited for that. Yeah, they're making a haunting Adeline movie. And I was actually watching the little clip she put up, and she's like, I'm going to be heavily involved in this with everything. Casting, like production, everything. Yeah. Yeah. And of course, people are commenting, like, hmm, wonder how she's gonna do that gun scene. And I'm like, Oh, I forgot about that. How could you forget about that? I think that's I know, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02That's for last season finale.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah. We're gonna get into that. Alright. Spoiler alert. Um, okay, yeah, what else? Um, I'm trying to just think in terms of my journey for slowing down, it's so funny. I was just thinking about this as I was coming here and that conversation I had with you about my dreams. And I think since you like mentioned that whole thing, like about not slowing down even in my dreams, yeah, it really like struck something with me, and I've been reflecting as I always am. As I always am. And like I stopped myself like three times today from rushing to do something. And I was really proud of myself. So my journey of slowing down continues because it's seeping into my dreams now, and that's no way to live when I'm sleeping. No, it's not. Yeah. Um, so yeah, that's it. That's my life, and um work is just work. That's it. Nothing I care to share.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. What about you? What's going on in life and work and oh my god, your work, your work. No, my work is crazy. Yeah. And I can leave it at that. Okay. I think that's um enough attention for that. Yeah, my work is a telenovela. Yeah. It is. It is. Okay, la VA. Yeah. Tay Robo. Yeah. Pretty much. So yeah, that's that. And what else? Not to work. What about life stuff? Life is. I did something last weekend that I never did. I feel like every day of last weekend I did something and I was outside and I was like.
SPEAKER_00Nice.
SPEAKER_01And it just felt so unlike me. And like I actually laid out in the sun by the pool. That's being outside, and then like were you in the shade or in the sun? I was in the sun. And then eventually I asked the guy to bring an umbrella. Yeah. But that was towards the end. Oh, I love that. You can't. And like I have a tan, like I have a triangle tan like right here. Yeah. Good job. Pink, yeah. I love that. You do not like that sun. No, I don't like the sun, but like I did that, and that's like different. I love it. Yay. Yeah. And reading. Oh, right. Well, we skipped. Oh, yeah, we skipped Kingdom of Ash. Yeah, we're gonna leave that because we don't really want to be that emotionally destroyed right now. Yeah, not right now. Not right now. But like maybe, maybe in the fall. Like after we read some stuff that's gonna break our hearts. Like, I know Gods and Monsters is gonna murder me. Yeah. So like I'm gonna need something to comfort myself. That's a good and how better to comfort yourself than like go to the deepest, darkest more hard trauma pain and trauma. Yeah, so just dive into that. Yeah. Yeah, that's the plan. But we know that heartbreak and trauma, so it's like we're just revisiting it. Yeah. Yeah. So it won't hit like as hard, but it'll still hit. So it's yeah, but it's always gonna. I don't even know if it's not. I don't know why I'm saying that. I don't know that it might hit even harder. Like, who knows? Yeah. Um, yeah, so all that to say, we skipped over Kingdom of Ash and we read Court of Thorns and Roses. Oh yeah. And we're on. Did you?
SPEAKER_02So it's this bitch telling me last night we gotta speed up our reading. And I'm like, who? Alright, just because you finished.
SPEAKER_01I'm on the I'm already on Miss Timberwolves. But I'm on chapter 43. I have three chapters left. Literally just three. Alright. So I'm right behind you. Okay, fine. Okay. Yeah. Anyway, what are we thinking about Avatar so far? Like NR reread. There's a lot. It's too much. It's really it's not too much, actually, but I'm I'm liking Reese a lot. Yeah. I still didn't hate Tamlin, like we discussed. Still don't hate him. Um love Lucian.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Love him. Actually appreciate him a little bit more than I did. Because he's like a sidekick in a song. He's a sidekick, yeah. Um Nasta also. I'm sorry. I'm right, you're right, you're right. Nasta also, like I think you and I talked about how I'm I saw why she kind of thinks the way she thinks, just based on her relationship with her dad and how all of that happened. So yeah. I'm loving it. Good. I got my shirt on today. Who got the biggest wings? Cassian. Cassian is wide. His wings are wide.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Girthy. And Azreel has both. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Well, thank you.
SPEAKER_01And we're talking about wings. I don't know what y'all are thinking. We're talking about actually bat wings.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Let's get to our what's going on questions. Alright. What's one thing?
SPEAKER_00Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01You look like you got on like a professional pantsuit. I like it. Like a linen blazer set, you know? Alright, keep going. Sorry. What's one relationship green flag you'll never settle without? Okay. So this is just coming from what I have experienced so far since the end of my relationship. So it's like a brand new thing that I'm just experiencing now. All the green flags? It's a green flag. Well, it's a lot of green flags. But the one that I think that I will never settle without going forward is consistency. I just need consistency. If you start something, you need to be consistent. If you are not going to be consistent, then don't even go there. Because when you stop doing it, I'm gonna question why. You know? It could be something small, just be consistent with something. So I think that's my uh that's good. That's my green flag. Yeah, yeah. Alright. Now it's your turn. What's something you've had to unlearn about love or relationships? So something I had to unlearn. Yeah, that's how I feel about it. I didn't want to unlearn it, you know. I know. But like ignorance is plus that was cute.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But something I had to unlearn was that I love being love bombed. Yeah. Like I like it. There's nothing. You know? Yeah. And I had to unlearn that though. If you have someone who's not doing all that, yeah, but it's like this could be healthy, you know, and it's like I'm just so used to the love bombing. Right. But again, I'm not chitting on love bombing because I kind of like it. Not like how it turns out for some people. Right. Absolutely. You know, like I only want the love bombing. Right, right. I don't Yeah. How is it on learning it? Like, what are you but that's what I'm saying? Like right now, I'm just seeing that this is a thing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_01Um, so now I have to like I'm not confusing love with someone who'll come around and love bomb, you know. It just helped me realize this exact thing that I kind of appreciate it. Yeah. When someone gives me all the love all the time, right away, whatever. Like, yeah, just be in love. Yeah. But I want that like all the time. Right, right. Like, I like the attention, you know, especially if it's from someone that you like. Like you like that attention, but having to unlearn that is showing me now that when you come around and you're just healthy, getting to know someone, whatever, it's like it doesn't mean they like you less. It's if they're not love bombing. Yeah. No, I love that. That's so true, too. Like, I hope people are really paying attention to what you're saying. Because, like, also, like, whatever, I know people don't believe in like love languages or whatever, but like everyone, like acts of service might be a way to love bomb someone, or like, you know, whatever. So, like, yeah, I'm sure there's other ways that you're experiencing that, you know, as you unlearn what you know. Yeah, but if I didn't, yeah, you know, if I didn't do that, I would be thinking, right, like, oh, this person might not like me enough because he's not doing all the things. Yeah, yeah. I love that. That's a really good point. Yeah, I'm so happy for you, friend. This is good, it's a good experience.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so what what are we talking about today?
SPEAKER_01Today we're exploring two concepts that are often misunderstood and even more often confused with one another. Codependency and fear of abandonment. While they can overlap, they're not the same thing. One is rooted in losing yourself to maintain a relationship, me, while the other is driven by the fear of losing the relationship altogether. You all right. Using today's stories, we'll look at how these patterns develop, why they're so difficult to break, and what heal and what healing can actually look like. Because understanding these patterns isn't about assigning blame, it's about recognizing them so we can build healthier relationships with ourselves and with others. At the core of both codependency and fear of abandonment is attachment. From the time we're born, our brains begin learning whether relationships feel safe, predictable, and secure. When those early experiences involve inconsistency, neglect, trauma, or instability. Oh, it's interesting. I like consistency when I yeah. Anyway, our nervous system can become wired to expect relationships to feel uncertain. That can shape how we connect with people later in life. For some people, that uncertainty becomes a fear of abandonment, a persistent worry that the people they love will leave, reject, or stop choosing them. Wow. Okay, just a heads up. We're going to be coming for ourselves this whole episode. No, I refuse to. I'm coming for myself. It's fine. I'm not afraid to show that I got issues. Okay, for others, it can develop into codependent patterns where self-worth becomes tied to taking care of other people, fixing relationships, or putting someone else's needs ahead of their own. Yeah. I identify as that. These patterns are patterns. These pitter patterns aren't signs of weakness. These patterns aren't signs of weakness. They've often survived. Let me open my eyes. These patterns do with it. This is you. Oh my god, why are we not working in?
SPEAKER_02Okay, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01Okay, exactly because we should be. These patterns aren't signs of weakness. Okay. They're often survival strategies that once helps adopt.
SPEAKER_03Just get it out. Adopt and shop. Just get it out. Okay.
SPEAKER_01All right, here we go. I'm sorry. I'm holding that. No, don't be sorry.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, I need that.
SPEAKER_01These patterns. Okay. These patterns aren't signs of weakness. They're often survival strategies that once help someone adapt to Voldemort. To Voldemort? What are you saying? To Voldemort's experiences. Okay. These patterns aren't signs of weakness. They're often survival strategies that once help someone adapt to difficult experiences.
SPEAKER_03I mean when you do that at the end, but it's so good to all right.
SPEAKER_01This is my last time. If not, I'll make it work. Yeah. If not, we're gonna just cry parts and just make patterns, experiences. These patterns aren't signs of weakness. There's often they're often survival strategies that once helped. No, no, this is it.
SPEAKER_03Don't say this is it, because it's not okay.
SPEAKER_01Okay, but this is this is not it. Okay, watch. These patterns aren't signs of weakness. They're often survival strategies that once help someone adapt to difficult experiences. The challenge is that what protects us in one chapter of life can begin hurting us in the next. Okay, it's my turn. The challenge is that what protects us in one chapter of life can begin hurting us in the next. Healing often starts when we recognize those patterns and learn that healthy relationships don't require us to abandon ourselves. Amen. We have a lot to unpack here. It's a lot to go down. Get ready, guys. Fast in your seat belts. Okay. Alright, in fiction now. Alright. Some of the most unforgettable stories aren't really about falling in love. They're about what people are willing to risk to keep the people they love. That's because relationships are often the emotional heart of a story. When a character fears losing someone, every decision suddenly carries much higher stakes. Characters struggling with codependency or fear of abandonment often stay longer than they fear of abandonment. Yeah, that's it.
SPEAKER_00That's too longer than they fear. Make your longer than they longer than they should.
SPEAKER_01Forgive me. Please forgive me. No, you're you're forgiven.
SPEAKER_00Forgive me. You're forgiven.
SPEAKER_02I will not abandon you.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_02This is me fixing it because I'm codependent.
SPEAKER_01I'm tolerating your bullshit because I don't want you to go. Okay, go. Forgive more than they should, or sacrifice parts of themselves in hopes that the relationship will survive. Yeah, you just saw it live. And while those choices can be frustrating to watch, yep, they're also deeply human. Thank you. They reflect fear and struggles that many people experience in real life. These themes create conflict, emotional tension, and character growth, which is exactly why we see them across so many different genres. Yeah. Uh they also challenge us as readers to ask an important question: Are these choices coming from love or are they coming from fear? Oh, I need to ask myself that in real life. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes the answer isn't obvious. Not to the reader, and definitely not to the character. And that's what makes these stories so compelling. They're not just about who the character chooses, they're about whether they'll ever learn to choose themselves. Damn. Yeah. Oh my god. I'm already like this is gonna be heavy. Okay. Yeah. I'm thinking about what you just said. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, this week I'll be sitting down with Molly from Where's Molly by H. D. Colton. Oh my god. This is my favorite book of hers. Yeah. Oh, I love it. And I'll be sitting down with Lily Bloom from It Ends With Us by Colleen Hoover. Oh my god, you did Colleen Hoover last time. Oh, I did. And it's funny because like now that whole thing is done with the with their lawsuits. So it's like Did I want I don't even think I watched a movie yet. I didn't watch it yet either. I have to. Anyway, okay. Yeah. Okay, we'll explore how fear of abandonment can shape the way someone navigates relationships, safety, and connection. And we'll examine how codependent patterns can develop with the context of an abusive relationship and what it takes to break the cycle. You go first this time. Okay, so I'm bringing Molly from Where's Molly by H.D. Carlton. Where's Molly is a dark romantic suspense novel by H.D. Carlton that follows Molly Devereaux, a young woman whose disappearance has haunted people for years. Without spoiling this major twist, Molly was abducted as a child and spent years in captivity. After she escaped, she's left trying to rebuild a life while carrying the psychological effects of everything she survived. As an adult, she is determined to uncover the truth about what happened to her and confront the people connected to her past. Along the way, she becomes entangled in an intense, morally grave romance that forces her to navigate trust. Trauma, control, and healing. As the story unfolds, we're slowly shown how her past continues to influence the relationships she forms, the choices she makes, and the way she searches for safety and connection. Okay, so this isn't all just about like what happened to her, right? It has those experiences. It's like how those experiences quietly shape her sense of self. Throughout the novel, we see someone who desperately wants to be loved while struggling to believe she's worthy of secure, healthy love. This isn't simply a story about romance, it's a story about attachment, abandonment, identity, and the psychological impact of learning to survive in relationships that don't always feel safe. When we first meet her, it's easy to focus on what she's doing. But as therapists, we're always asking a different question. Why? Molly is someone whose relationships have been deeply influenced by trauma and instability. Throughout her life, the people who were supposed to provide safety often became sources of fear, inconsistency, or loss. Because of that, she learned to associate love with uncertainty rather than security. And one of the things I found interesting about Molly is that her need for connection isn't simply about wanting to be loved, it's about wanting to feel safe. When you've experienced repeated abandonment or instability, relationships can start to feel less like a choice and more like survival. I feel like this sounds just like a lead, you know, with her shit. I mean, two people can be alike, right? And therapy. But what is it? Yeah, it's like when you focus on was hers also. Self-sabotage, yeah. Which duh. Mm-hmm. You self-sabotage because you fear abandonment. Yeah. So instead of asking why doesn't she just walk away? A more helpful question might be what has their life taught her about what relationships are supposed to look like? When someone grows up experiencing abandonment, neglect, or inconsistent relationships, they can begin to believe that love is something they have to earn or something they have to hold on to at all costs. Over time, that fear of being left can evolve into into codependent patterns where another person's presence becomes tied to your own sense of safety, identity, or self-worth. One thing I always um think about with codependency, it isn't about loving someone too much, it's about slowly losing yourself while trying and while trying not to like lose someone else. Oh my god. Is it like codependent if you do it one time? Like, are you codependent? Or like you know how you're an alcoholic, you're an alcoholic. Is it like I maybe I just only did that one time, but can I walk around here and say that I'm codependent? I for me personally, yeah, it has to be a consistent what's with me inconsistent today.
SPEAKER_05Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01It has to, it's a con it was a consistent thing for me. Where like I and like, you know, we were talking about this, how like codependent codependency essentially is because you don't want to be abandoned. So they go hand in hand, right?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And it's just so twisted when I look back, it's like you think that this person is it, and you just don't want to lose them. But listen, yeah. The locust of control. Yeah, right? Yeah, well, because you you're over here managing this person's life, right? By like you're literally managing it, like managing who you are in it to make sure you stay in that. Right, right. I wasn't thinking any of this. I was just like, I'm with this person, this is love, I don't want to lose this. Somebody's interested in me. It was so unhealthy, so unhealthy. And then there were things happening that I was just like, either I was playing dumb or I I don't think I was playing dumb. I think I knew exactly what was happening, and I just chose to accept it and be like, no, you know what, that's fine. I'll just let that go because like I don't want to lose him because like this is it, yeah, you know, and it's consistently doing that, and like when there's arguments and like the a lot of gaslighting happened, and then like now they're upset, the other person's upset at something, and now I'm like, Oh my god, it was my fault, I have to fix it, you know. And like I have come a long, long way since that, but I still have tendencies with people, like even now, like I have those tendencies, and like sometimes I have to tell myself, no, like you can't do that. Like, people gotta figure out their shit on their own, like you know, whatever. Like, and I catch myself doing it with my family, like I catch myself wanting to do with you sometimes, like if you're like just not like you know, if you're just not in a having a good day or whatever, I'm like, oh my god, how can I fix it and make her happy? And it's like, no, it's not my job. Like, I can be there, you know. It goes back to the whole care without carrying thing. Um, yeah, so I still have those tendencies to want to do that. And why? Because I don't want to lose this person. Like, if I don't make in my mind, if I don't make her feel better, she's gonna be like, You're a shitty friend, and she's gonna not be my friend anymore. Okay, so it like it's everywhere, it's everywhere because I've only experienced that like once, I think, in that toxic situation, and it's like I was like, Oh, I I caught myself doing that, and I was like, Oh, you know, it's okay. This is fine. I don't wanna let me just manage what's going on, right? Whatever, but then I was like, no, I don't like this, and I got out, like Yeah, right, exactly. Not like it was that easy to just you know what I mean. I caught on to it, and I was like, I I think I even remember telling you one day, this might have been a while ago, and I was like, listen, if this shit goes south, remind me that I knew it was gonna do this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I made a choice to go back because I had already found out this isn't it, right? Right, you know, so like I had to face that when you were like, You told me remind you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This was never it. Like, you can't be sad now. Yeah, and that's it's but it's so hard, like it's so hard. Hello, it's so hard. Look how long it took me, you know what I mean? And then like towards the end, I like didn't care as much, but there were still moments where I was like, oh my god, like if blah blah blah happens, like I'm gonna be myself. How am I gonna take care of myself? Like what I'm perfectly fucking fine, but like it's just and I wanted to strangle you during those times because like you were you were good now, and then it's like now you bring up this the fear of like what's gonna happen in my apartment. I did like and I was just like you're gonna be fine, and you're like, no, but but I get it, yeah. You had to know, you had to right, right, and like I'm totally fine now, but like it's really, really bad. I mean, I was in a really, really bad place, and I remember like I was in grad school and I was fucking up and I was depressed all the time because my relationship was like I had to like monitor the relationship to make sure it was good, right? And I even had like administrative something, I forgot what it is, like like a I don't even remember, but like they were like, maybe you should try talking to like the therapist here if like you have stress or whatever. They didn't know, like you know what I mean? Because I wasn't doing well in school, I wasn't going, I was staying home, I wasn't going to I just needed to monitor this relationship for my own well-being. And um, I like was failing classes, whatever. So I went to see the therapist there. I'm like, sure, yeah, why not? And she's the one who brought up codependency, she's the one who showed me the fucking cycle, she's the one who told me about the Melody Beattie book, like all of that, and now I'm using that for my clients, you know what I mean? But like when I say I have lived that, I live that, and even that therapy didn't do shit because I still was like, all right, yo, you know, yeah, I knew what I was doing, like I was able to identify it, but I couldn't I didn't learn, I didn't do anything until I did, and it's hard even now to break out of those habits. I will say that you handled that with grace. Well, that was that was very peaceful, very ladylike, beautiful because it could have went yeah, yeah, it could have been bad. Good job. Yeah, thanks, friend. Thank you. But yeah, just saying, guys, it's real and it's hard, and we get it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, all right.
SPEAKER_01So sorry. No, that was good. So for Molly, presenting problems, unresolved attachment trauma, fear of abandonment, emotional dependence within relationships, difficulty establishing healthy boundaries, and difficulty trusting safety and stability. Core beliefs. People I love will eventually leave me. If someone chooses me, I'm finally enough. Being alone isn't safe, and I have to hold on to relationships no matter what. Some treatment goals and objectives, process attachment trauma, and I would look at those early experiences, you know. That's definitely yeah, yeah. Yeah, and then like identify how that is affecting our relationship. It's so interesting that you said that because as I was coming here, clearly I'm thinking about recording. I was thinking like, how did those codependency things form with me? Like, where did that come from? I didn't get there yet because I didn't have enough time to reflect, but that's something I'm gonna do when I later. Yeah. Yeah, because you only had 23 minutes to get here. Yeah, yep. Yeah. Um, we're gonna reduce abandonment-driven behaviors, strengthen identity outside of relationships, and develop healthier interpersonal relationships. Interventions, clinical attachment-based therapy, trauma-focused CBT, cognitive restructuring, and DBT emotion regulation skills. Expected outcomes, improved emotional regulation, healthier relationship boundaries, increased distress tolerance, stronger sense of identity, reduced fear of abandonment, and movement toward more secure attachment patterns. So when we look at Molly, she isn't just searching for love. It's someone searching for safety, and when safety has always felt unpredictable, relationships can stop feeling like connection and start feeling like survival. It's so funny because like I just looked up as you were talking about that, and it was Layla with that girl, and I was like, what a more like codependent fear of abandonment relationship than the two of them. Yeah, right? Yeah, that was so both of them. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Anyway, all right. Well, I have Lily Bloom from It Ends With Us by Colleen Hoover. So Lily Bloom has spent her life believing she would never repeat the relationship patterns she witnessed growing up. After watching her father abuse her mother throughout childhood, she promises herself that if she ever found herself in a similar situation, she would leave. As an adult, Lily falls in love with Ryle, a successful neurosurgeon whose charm, passion, and tenderness make it easy to believe she has found a healthy relationship. When the abuse begins, however, Lily finds herself trapped in the same cycle she once judged from the outside. This treatment plan explores Lily's experiences through the lens of fear of abandonment and codependent patterns within the context of an abusive relationship. While her attachment to Ryle is more accurately understood as a trauma bond than a classic codependency, this discussion is not intended to suggest that survivors are responsible for the abuse they experience or that all survivors develop codependent patterns. Rather, Lily's story illustrates how trauma, fear of abandonment, hope, unconditional love, and self-abandonment can become deeply intertwined, making it incredibly difficult to leave even when someone recognizes that they're being harmed. At its core, it ends with us is a story about breaking generational cycles, reclaiming self-worth, and choosing emotional safety over familiarity. And like just to like read that synopsis alone, I'm like, holy shit, like yeah. Alright, presenting problem behaviors, difficulty leaving an abusive relationship despite recognizing the harm, prioritizing hope for change over personal safety, self-sacrificing behaviors driven by fear of loss, guilt, and emotional attachment. Um, I just giggled, not the safety part, but like prioritizing hope for change over personal safety. But it was like that something that I did too. Oh, I'll stay. It's gonna get better. It'll it can get better. It can be fine, it'll be fine, it'll get better, you know. Okay. Core themes fear of abandonment within an abusive relationship, trauma-bonding self-abandonment, and emotional dependency, and intergenerational trauma and breaking the cycle. Core belief. If I leave the person I love, I'll lose the future I always imagined and become the person I never wanted to be. Alright, so treatment goals, interventions, process childhood trauma and its influence on adult relationships, differentiate healthy attachment from trauma bonding, um, strengthen self-worth independent of preserving the relationship, and develop emotional boundaries rooted in safety rather than fear. What progress would look like recognizes that love does not excuse abuse, chooses emotional and physical safety over hope that someone will change, and develops trust in herself rather than relying on the relationship for security. Yeah, that's about accurate. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the outcome Lily's story demonstrates how difficult it can be to leave an abusive relationship when someone knows it's unhealthy. Her healing begins when she recognizes that protecting her daughter requires her to make a different choice than the one she witnessed growing up, and that's she had yes. That was the end of the book, I believe. Just that moment that was so powerful. Read the book, guys. But the wasn't it like it ends with us? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Literally, I think the last words of the book. Yeah. Lily's greatest act of courage is not leaving because she stops loving Ryle. It's leaving despite loving him. Her story reminds us that breaking a cycle often requires grieving the future we hoped for in order to protect the future we still have the power to create. That's it. Alright. Treatment team meeting. Clipboards out. Okay. So if they walked into our office. If Molly walked into my office, my first impression would probably be this is someone who spent a long time trying to survive, not just difficult circumstances, but relationships that told her safety wasn't always guaranteed. I probably noticed someone who longs for connection, but who also carries understandable fear of losing it. Molly presented someone with significant attachment wounds. There's a deep fear of abandonment and an understandable difficulty trusting that love can be consistent. Over time, those experiences seem to have taught her that her relationships aren't just important. There were safety, identity, and self-worth are found. That's where I start thinking about codependency because codependency isn't just about relying on someone else. It's believing your emotional safety depends on keeping that connection at all costs. Rather than asking whether her behaviors make sense, I'd be asking what experiences taught her they were necessary. Oh my god. We need a whole background story on her. I mean, like this is her, it's kind of both, but I need more, is what I'm trying to say. Yeah. Where's more Molly? More Molly. More Molly. Um, all right. If Lily walked into my office, I don't think we'd be talking about a relationship problem. I think we'd be talking about the impact of trauma and how it shaped the way she experienced love, safety, and attachment. Okay. Um, wait, but with Lily, I think what's what's interesting too with her is that like not her relationship with Ryle, but her other relationship. Oh yeah. Um, like when she what's his name? Ace or whatever. I forgot his name. Yeah, I know he had told me. Yeah. Like that was a healthy yeah. Yeah, but when they were younger, you know, and oh my god, he was there to experience her trauma and you know, see like when her her dad, you know, I don't know. Yeah. What is his name? I gotta look. Atlas. Atlas, yeah. Oh my god, the way she helped Alice and the way he helped her.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Oh, and he was just so much better for her, obviously. But you know. Wow, I didn't even bring him up. Thank you for bringing him up, actually. Clinically, Lily presents as someone navigating the psychological effects of childhood exposure to domestic violence while trying to make sense of an abusive relationship of her own. Her fear of repeating the past exists alongside the hope that the person she loves can change, making it incredibly difficult to separate love from harm. That would be happening.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Okay. What they'd say versus reality. What they'd say.
SPEAKER_01Molly might describe the problem as constantly trying to find where she belongs, or finally finding people she can trust, or just wanting to feel safe. But clinically, I think the deeper issue is unresolved attachment, trauma that's shaped the way she experiences relationships. When you've learned that love can disappear without warning, it's easy to begin believing that your job is to hold on to people no matter the cause. Yeah. That's where fear of abandonment and codependency often meet. One creates the fear of losing the relationship, the other convinces you to lose yourself trying to prevent it. Yo, that is so crazy. Like, I mean, like, I'm not acting like I don't know what you're talking about. It's just hearing it in the context of what is going on in my head. But think about it, it's like they're besties. They're besties. And they just they're just coming together. Like, this is where they come together. And it just makes sense. They all link up together because they go hand in hand. Hand in hand. Like if we were It's us, yeah. It's us. Yeah. It's literally us.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I love it. Yeah. Alright. Lily would probably say she loves Ryle. She'd probably tell us she knows who he is underneath the violence and believes that's the version of him worth fighting for. Ugh, I'm just gonna throw it up. Same. But like there was no domestic violence in my relationship. There was no well, physical violence. Because domestic violence can be mental, also emotional, all that. There was no physical violence. Okay.
SPEAKER_02But the reality is that am I defending him?
SPEAKER_01I'm not defending him. This is not me being codependent. I'm just saying. But the reality is that hope can sometimes keep people emotionally attached to relationships that are causing them harm. That's correct. I already spoke on it. I'm leaving it alone.
SPEAKER_02Okay, what would you work on first?
SPEAKER_01Uh, first, you know me. Always safety. Not the relationship, not the romance, not convincing Molly that someone else can love her. I'd want her to begin believing that she can be safe even when relationships feel uncertain. Because until someone develops internal safety, they'll keep looking for it externally. Um from there, we'd begin attachment work, emotional regulation, processing trauma, and tolerating separation without believing it means abandonment.
SPEAKER_00Nice. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Alright. The first thing we'd focus on is helping Lily understand that loving someone doesn't require sacrificing her own safety. We'd also work on separating responsibility, guilt, and hope from the reality of what's happening in the relationship. I think this is this was your role in my life at that time is helping me separate those things. And you did it in baby doses, and I know how hard it was for you to have to do it in baby doses because like you just were you just saw it from the get. You told me from the get. I was just like, yeah, you know, mm-hmm. But what did you really think? You were like, Oh, she's on to me, or no, I was just really thinking, like, she doesn't even know, like, she just got here. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I've been with him so long, like she's not even in a relationship. Like, what you know, all the things. I were you when I met you, I was in a relationship. Yeah, no, but like not right, right when I met you. Like, you know what I mean? I don't think you c that early came out and was like, This isn't her you, like you got you know.
SPEAKER_03What?
SPEAKER_02No, not at all. That was so funny. No, you don't look like that. Oh my god, I wish you guys could see us one day.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, stop. We need video records. Okay, I got insecurities. That's not it. I'm gonna just put a camera up. Okay, but can you just put it like I just want to No, I'm putting it right there. You see where my vanity is? I'm gonna put it right there so it can record us. Okay, that's a far enough distance that I can hide myself. Oh my great God. Okay. Um, and it's cute because it's like the couches. Oh yeah. That's a cute getup setup. Okay. Um, yeah, yeah. So what was I talking about? Oh, when you yeah, you had to be this person for me where you were like giving me small doses of reality testing. Like, are you sure? Like, yeah, what's that about? Like there was no one else challenging you because everyone else was a part of the delusion. And I wasn't being honest with everyone about what was really going on. So, like, my mom told me too. Everybody in the world told me.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Except my damn self couldn't tell me. Yeah. Or myself told me, I just didn't want to listen. So I wonder why you listened to me. You know, I don't know. Because I could have just been somebody else that told you. I listened to you because you consistently reminded me and you kept saying this, like, you're not being treated like the prize, and you ha you're the prize. And I heard you saying that, but I didn't believe it. Yeah. I didn't believe I was the prize until like I started thinking about that and working on myself. And then I realized, like, okay, I gotta start thinking on the prize in order to like feel that way, in order to realize what's going on, you know? I was so far from the prize in hindsight with everything we know. I was the furthest thing from the prize. I was the trash on the bottom of your shoe, even worse than that, probably. In the bottom of the ocean, disintegrated for millions of years. That was me.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So far from the prize. So something about it clicked that one day. I can I'll still tell you that one day we were at half moon, and you just said it to me. We were eating oysters. I remember exactly. You said it to me for some reason. It clicked that day. And then where were we sitting? Oh, when we were it was like in the middle. I remember that, and then the glass was on this side. Yeah. Okay. Sorry, Mia. And it was that day you said it, and I don't know what happened. I don't know if that was the day with the tree. Like, I don't know. Something about that moment when you said that to me made it me, made it mated me. I mated you. Made me start thinking, and then I just kept like seeing it. Every time I had an interaction with him that was like not good, I would say, like, no, but you're the prize. But and I think I had to beat that into myself until I finally had the courage to be like, I'm not happy anymore, and this isn't working.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I cannot even imagine not living my life and feeling the way I do now. Like it would it, it's it's just unimaginable. People, don't don't do it to yourself, please. It's not worth it. There's so much better on the other side. Alright, counter transference. Well, I've talked enough about what my counter transference would be, so that's it. Yeah. I'm done. That's it. No counter transfer. I would have major counter transference. Go. No counter transference for today. Okay. You don't have counter transference with Molly? I don't want to do her. Okay. Working with Molly because again, like I looked between a few and I again feel protective. And I hate that all of my people that I've been bringing to my couch, I feel protective, protective. You know, like it's making me feel like I'm in a box. And I don't want to be in a protective box. Okay. But maybe because I'm picking like my favorite people for these topics that are, you know, supposed to represent. Yeah. These are like, I realize I have a self spot for all of these characters that I'm bringing because they're like my favorites. And that's okay. Yeah. But anyway, so that's my like I'd want to reassure her that healthy relationships exist, but I'd also have to be mindful not to become the source of security she hasn't yet learned to build within herself. The goal that was nothing like what I was saying, but this is what I yeah, yeah. Yeah. The goal isn't dependence on therapy, the goal is helping her develop enough internal safety that relationships become a choice, not a necessity. Yeah. Yeah. Alright, intervention? Alright, so for Lily, the intervention. Um, a lot of work would focus on understanding trauma bonding, rebuilding self-trust, strengthening boundaries, boundary bound.
SPEAKER_00Okay, boom boom. What's a boom boom boom boom?
SPEAKER_01Okay, I'm done. A lot cut all of that out. Cut a lot a lot. A lot of work would focus on understanding trauma bonding, rebuilding self-trust, strengthening boundaries, and exploring how witnessing domestic violence in childhood shape Lily's beliefs about love and relationships. We'd also help her recognize that healthy love should never require enduring repeated harm.
SPEAKER_05Hmm.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Alright, what are your interventions over there? Okay, so for interventions, attachment-focused work would probably be my foundation. I'd spend a lot of time exploring questions like what is it, what is what is it, what is it, what does feeling safe actually mean to you? When did you first learn that people leave? What evidence do you use to decide someone can be trusted? Because before we change relationship patterns, we have to understand the beliefs driving them. So like she's coming to me, right? But like now, now I know about her childhood and her traumas. Yeah. Because like it's like it almost doesn't even matter what happened before that trauma. Because like that that shit was crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Alright, the hard truth. The hardest truth is that loving someone doesn't make them safe. And no amount of love can change someone who isn't willing to take responsibility for their own behavior. I need to say that again for myself. The hardest truth is that loving someone doesn't make them safe. And no amount of love can change someone who isn't willing to take responsibility for their own behavior. Yep. Okay. So my hard truth is healing doesn't happen when someone finally promises they'll never leave. It happens when you no longer believe your worth depends on whether they stay. Let's bring it back to real life. So Lily's story reminds us that leaving an abusive relationship is often far more psychologically, emotionally, and practically complex than people realize. Sometimes the bravest act isn't holding on to love, it's choosing to break the cycle, even when it means walking away from someone you still love. Yep. Yeah. Wow. I think one of the biggest misconceptions about codependency is that it's simply loving someone too much. But codependency isn't measured by how deeply you love. It's measured by how much of yourself you're willing to abandon to keep someone else from leaving. And fear of abandonment isn't always the fear that someone will walk away. Sometimes it's the fear that if they do, you won't know who you are without them. The goal of healing isn't becoming so independent that you don't need people. It's learning that love doesn't require self-abandonment because the healthiest relationships aren't built on one person holding everything together. They're built on two people who can stay connected without either of them disappearing.
SPEAKER_02That's really, really good.
SPEAKER_05Thank you.
SPEAKER_01But it's true. That was so true. Yeah. I really like those words just sunk in. Like even with us, we're like just two people who won't disappear because you can walk away, like we're not connected by anything other than the shared memories and all the life in this podcast. Yeah. But you know, like I we could both just disappear right now. Like, not disappear, like get lost, but like leave and decide, oh, I'm never gonna talk to Vanessa again. Like, and I can't hold you to it. Like, or hold you against it. We both have to disappear for it to well, don't come chasing after me if I said no. I won't deal with your abandonment issues.
SPEAKER_05Alright.
SPEAKER_01No, that was well said though. Seriously. Yeah. I hope people are listening to what we're saying because relationships are already complicated enough. And to complicate them with this shit, please just listen to what we're saying for the love of yourself.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay, the pain and the pla the pain. The pain. The pain and the plot. Alright. Okay, so the moment for me is the moment Lily realizes she's making the same excuses for Ryle that she once resented her mother for making. Forcing her to confront how trauma, love, and hope can keep someone trapped in an abusive relationship. Alright, the pain, believing love and hope are enough to overcome abuse, struggling to separate the man she loves from the harm he causes, and fearing that leaving the relationship means giving up the future she always imagined. The shift, recognizing that understanding her mother's choices is not the same as repeating them, realizing that loving someone does not require tolerating abuse, and chooses to break the cycle rather than pass it on. Which she does. The plot prioritizes safety over preserving the relationship, develops healthier boundaries rooted in self-worth rather than fear of abandonment, discovers that breaking the cycle begins with choosing herself and her daughter, even when it means walking away from someone she still loves. Lily didn't stay because she was weak. She stayed because trauma made the impossible feel complicated. Her healing began when she realized that ending the relationship didn't mean love had failed. It meant the cycle finally would. Yeah. Yeah. Alright, what you got for your pain in the plot. Oh, that was nice. When Molly struggles to trust genuine love and repeatedly questions whether she's truly safe with Cage. Wow. And Amy's loving him. Oh my god. I'm so happy she's reading it. He's great. She's probably done by now. Okay, the pain. Attachment trauma, fear of abandonment, hypervigilance in relationships, equates safety with another person's presence, and struggles to believe love can exist without conditions. The shift begins allowing herself to receive love instead of constantly preparing to lose it, learns that vulnerability doesn't always end in abandonment, and starts building trust instead of scanning for danger. The plot. Healing begins when she slowly gathers evidence that this relationship doesn't have to follow the same script.
SPEAKER_00Was the pain worth the plot?
SPEAKER_01Uh no. No. No, not at all. That was an easy one. Alright. It's time for fun. Yay! It's worth fun. Alright. Wait, hold on a second. I feel like I talked so much about my codependency shit, and you did not talk a single drop about your fear of abandonment shit. Do I have fear of abandonment? Um, I don't care what I guess. I don't know how to recognize my my um fear of abandonment because it's just like my personality disorder. So like I don't know. You're right. It's just who I am. So you you're just looking at me like, oh, this is her, whatever. But for me, it's just Thursday. So I can't clock it on myself. Okay, fine. Fair, fair, fair. Well, in the moment. Well, because like you because I'm I have processed it where it's like it's still happening. What you think I still have abandonment issues? I think you have a fear of abandonment. I didn't say you had abandonment issues. Okay. You don't think you have a fear of abandonment? You're fine with people leaving you? Why would they want to leave me? This is the problem.
SPEAKER_00This is true. I mean, that's a good question. But like when people leave.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but I guess I don't think about it until that moment. Like, you know, it's not okay. It doesn't feel like I yeah, I maybe I do. I don't know. Maybe if something threatens it, then I do.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Alright, well.
SPEAKER_01She can't relate, people. She just doesn't know. She has it.
SPEAKER_02Oh man, that's funny. Okay, let's do fun.
SPEAKER_01Love or losing you. Okay, we're going to read different relationship scenarios. Our job is to decide what's driving the behavior. Is it coming from love? Or is it coming from the fear of losing someone? There isn't always one right answer. Sometimes the healthiest conversations happen in the gray area. Alright, well, we're gonna converse. Okay. The love, fear of losing them, or both? Yeah, you keep hoping they'll become the person you know they could be. I said uh that's a fear of losing them for me. I don't know, like it's the love, right? It's the love that makes you fear losing them. Or is it not? Right? Yeah. So I I say both. Yeah. For me, like it automatically wants a fear of losing them.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So interesting. Okay. You'd rather be unhappy with them than happy without them. I think that's the fear of losing them because why would you be without them? Yeah, if you're happy. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I agree with you. Okay, you keep giving second chances because you remember who they were in the beginning. I think it's love. Yeah, I agree. Love. You stop asking for what you need because at least they're still there. Uh that's neither anything to me. That's just I don't know. I think that one's fear of losing them. Cause if you stop asking for what you need because at least they're still there, it's like I think can yeah, not like can you relate to that, but did have you ever stopped asking for what you needed just because you're like, whatever, they're here. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But I don't know that I feared losing them more than I was like, whatever, I'm comfortable. Like it's fine. Who cares? You know? But you just wanted to be in that com like that was it. That's that's that was where I wanted to be. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, also I get like fear of losing them too, because you're just like, okay, yeah, I'm just gonna let them get away with this and do whatever, and I don't care because I'm just gonna Yeah. Yeah. You convince yourself you're asking for too much instead of asking whether they they're giving enough. See, that's like another comfort thing, you know. Like I think for me that's fear of losing them. Because if you like weren't afraid of losing them, you would you would say something. You know, like yeah, I'm really not asking for too much. You could be doing some more shit than you're doing right now. Yeah, so and like if you get offended at that, then you're not my person. Like if you can't afford it or if you can't, whatever, then like just say that, and then it won't be a problem. Right. You know, I pick, I decide right then and there, like, is this something I can handle? If it is, I move forward. If it's not, yeah, it is what it is. See, the codependent in me is thinking, like, well, I should be given, like, I should be given more because that's what's gonna make them stay. So I guess fear of losing them.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01In a way, yeah. Wow, these are really making me think. Okay. You avoid setting boundaries because you're worried they'll take it the wrong way. That's fear of losing them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Okay. You keep trying to fix the relationship even though you're the only one putting in an effort. Fear of losing them.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. You change parts of yourself to become the person you think they'll love. That one can be both, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. You lose pieces of yourself so slowly that you don't realize until someone asks what happened to you. I see fear of losing them. Yeah. I agree. You believe that if you love someone hard enough, they'll eventually love you the way you want you the way the way you need them to. I think maybe that can be both. Yeah, I think so too. You stay because leaving feels more painful than continuing to be hurt. Fear of losing them.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay, and finally, you stop doing the hobbies, friendships, or routines you love because they don't fit into the relationship anymore.
SPEAKER_02That was fear of losing them.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Those were really like triggering. I love it. Alright. Well, what are you really afraid of? What are you really afraid of?
SPEAKER_01We're going to read a relationship behavior. But instead of judging the behavior, we're gonna ask what's underneath it. Because behaviors usually aren't the real story. The fear underneath them usually is. Okay. Okay, so you check your phone every few minutes because they haven't texts back. What's the fear underneath that? Um, that gotta be for me, because you don't check your phone. Um, that's my anxious attachment. Like, are they interested? Do they care about me? Like, you know, that's what that really is. Okay. Yeah. That's my fear, yeah. Okay. You don't tell people when they hurt you. What's the fear under that? I think that's the fear of abandonment. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Don't you think? Yeah. How would you know that's fear of abandonment? Um I don't know. I'm just saying. Yeah. Right? Yeah, because if you tell them, they're gonna be like, oh, they might they might be like, oh, that's too much. I don't want to be with you no more. Like, you know. I agree.
SPEAKER_05Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_01You stay even after trust has been broken. What's the fear underneath that? Fear of being alone?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. To me, yeah. But you say yes when you desperately want to say no. Yeah, what's the fear? You tell me. I'm trying to figure it out. Because I do this all the time. I think that's guilt, really, honestly. What's gilt? What's okay? Well, how do we make that into a fear? A fear of abandonment. Like people pleasing. Like it's a fear of losing some abandonment. Yep, fear of abandonment. No, you're absolutely right. As you were talking it through, I'm like, well, I want to say yes and not say no because I don't want this person to leave me. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I'm not right. If I'm thinking like black and white, whatever, it's either I say yes to going here, or I'm risking our entire relationship. They can walk away and decide not to be my friend anymore, which is fine for the most part. Right. You know, like um, you know, I just I don't want them out of my life completely, and I always feel like if I make that decision, that could alter that. But it's like I just don't want to hang out with you right now. Right. But I want to hang out with you in the future, just not right now, but I feel like if I reject you, you're gonna reject me. Yeah, yeah. And they could still reject reject. They could still reject you in the future, though. Too because they could be like, Well, I don't want to hang out with you now. So that's fine. Yeah. Right, right. But I get what you're saying, right?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_01You feel responsible for everyone else's happiness. Oh my god, that's a fear of abandonment. You don't want end codependence. We're back to square one. You panic when someone starts pulling away. What's the fear underneath that? Oh god. What did I do wrong? Like with my own fear of myself. You know what I mean? What did I do wrong? Like, why are they pulling away? Oh my god, like overthinking fear of of abandonment. Yeah. And I really do believe like this connects to my the my question in the beginning of the story. In the beginning of this session. Um, because like it can also be the perceived pulling away. Yeah. You see? So like back to the me enjoying being love bomb. So like if someone is just he's not pulling away, but he's just not doing like all the love bombing. Right. Right? Then it's like, what did and that's what it is in love bombing, right? Then when you pull away, you're like, what the fuck? Where's my love? Right. What the fuck? What did I do wrong? Whatever.
SPEAKER_00Attachment starts leaving in. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So it it can also be the perceived pulling away. That was a good one. Yeah. Okay, you keep chasing closure from someone who's already walked away. Oh, I don't know. I I can't relate to that one. If somebody's already walked away, like I'm gonna like go ask what's wrong. No, not like that. Like if we're both like ending things and we're like, okay, what uh whatever, let's talk, that's different. Like the first talk, you know? Yeah. I don't know. I d I mean I didn't actually. Yeah. I just closed it myself. Like if it's out of your way, like if it's just right there, like let's just say it's right here, it's in front of me, it's a picture, or it's like a post or it's something, and I'm like, oh, I just happen to come across it. Oh, cool, that's closure, whatever it is. Right. So whatever situation. But I'm not chasing closure. Me neither. If it lands on my lap, oh thank you, universe, whatever. But if I'm not chasing that girl yet, I don't want that. But yeah. I love that now. And like we should not be chasing closure. The closure is the the walking away. That's it. They chose to walk away, that's your closure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Done. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01You change parts of yourself depending on who you're with. Fear of not being good enough. Or fear of abandonment. Yeah, absolutely. Because you want to be who they want so they don't abandon you. Well it applies, so yeah. Okay. When you keep trying to fix someone who doesn't want to change, fear underneath that. I think that's more of like you're afraid that you're gonna be right. Or you're telling yourself, I can fix him. And then like you just keep trying, even though he doesn't want to change, you keep trying to say, like, I can do this, I can make him change. I think you're a failure too. Yeah, like you're a failure. Yeah. And abandonment, honestly.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Alright, you rather lose yourself than lose the relationship. Stupidity. But it happens. I didn't you never ask for reassurance, even when you need it. Yeah. Do you feel guilty setting a boundary with someone you love? Fear of abandonment. All the answers are fear of abandonment. Yeah. Fear of abandonment. Setting boundaries is so like hard though. Yeah. Anyway, any last words for codependency and fear of abandonment for the people. My final thought on this is that choose you. Like when in doubt, like just choose yourself. That's it, because you're never gonna go wrong, like just working on yourself. Um, and then once you work on yourself, you realize like you're you have everything you need, first of all. Like, and then like you said, like you are the prize, right? Like you have to believe that you're worth it. You have to believe that you're worth fighting for, that you're worth staying for. And that starts with doing it for yourself. You know, like it's when you do it for yourself and you feel it, it's like no one can tell you you're not worth fighting for because you literally fought for yourself in that moment to even choose yourself. Yeah, this is so perfect. I was literally gonna say something very similar. Because you'll never have to guess. Oh, you know, is it me? Did I do something? Like, you know yourself. Yeah, you know yourself. You don't have to guess, you don't have to feel like okay, if they leave, my whole life is gonna fall apart. How? I already took time out to learn myself, I know my strengths. You can't tell me that. Like, what am I so sad about? I'll be okay just like I was okay before I met them. Like, right, everything is fine, but you forget unless you take that time out, love yourself, and know who you are presenting to the world. Like this is all it is, you're playing a game. Well said. Honestly, I was going to say something very similar. The fear of abandonment and codependency comes from not loving yourself and knowing yourself, and exactly what you're saying. Once you know and love yourself, you won't tolerate anything else. And that's something that I've told myself that's keeping me from going back there. Is that you did all this work, you cannot betray yourself and go back there. We can't betray ourselves. We cannot betray ourselves after we do so much work to love ourselves, and we need to keep doing the work to continue to love ourselves. Because you won't accept anything but, and exactly what you said. And those are my final thoughts. So, all y'all out there listening, stop blaming it on other people, stop doing this, stop making the excuses, stop staying because you think it's gonna get better, stop hoping. Ask yourself like, Am I worth all of this? And they can't ask themselves that because they don't know, right? Well, they only see themselves through other people's eyes, through other people's lenses, like what they are telling them, hey, you do this, you do that, the literal mirror, like you're watching yourself. But like, but like you said, get to know yourself. Yeah, just get to know and love yourself. Don't make excuses, like you need to know what it is you want and need before you allow anybody else to tell you that. Yeah, and what you deserve on top of that. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Well, next week. What's going on next week, friend? You knew my phone just closed. Why are you gonna put me on the phone? I didn't know your phone closed. How would I know your phone closed? Next week, we're exploring one of the most heartwarming themes in fiction. We'll be talking about why belonging is one of our most fundamental psychological needs. We'll look at the relationship that reminds us healing doesn't always happen alone. We'll also explore how chosen families can become some of the healthiest and most meaningful relationships we've ever experienced. Some people spend their lives searching for a place where they finally feel at home. And sometimes they discover that home was never a place, it was always the people. Yeah, that's gonna be a good one. I think you and your family are kind of like a found family. Oh my god, and you're you're my sister now, because you have a found mom. Yeah, yeah. That's it for this session. See you next week. We want you to be a part of this world with us. Send us your book recommendations. Oh, somebody did this. Oh my god, yes, we got our first email. Book recommendation. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. We're gonna read it. We're gonna read it. Listen, anyone brave enough to send us a book recommendation, knowing that our TBR list is so long already, is like brave. Yes. I just want to say thank you so much for sending that. Thank you. We will get to it, and it won't be as long as you think because we're gonna have a moment where we're like, oh, we just need to read a random book, and then it'll be one like one that we didn't like plan out for already, like how we have our plans on like dark romance kind of in spooky season, like shit like that. Yeah, I love it. But this is like a it's like a golden ticket, it just jumps to the front, and then whenever we're like, okay, we're in a mood, boom, you're up. Yeah, so thank you. You don't know how much you've done for us, person who is. Okay, but you can send us our book, Bibit Bla. You already know that. Thank you for that. Character obsessions or topics you want us to cover. You already know that. I love it. No, send us your book recommendations, character obsessions, or topics you want us to cover. Yes, oh my god, send us some topics too. Yes. Okay, you can find us on Instagram and TikTok at once upon a session pod. Or email us at info at onceuponassessionpod.com if you want to share thoughts, suggestions, or just scream a rattle plot twist with us.
SPEAKER_02I'm laughing because I was telling my significant other today that oh, I'm gonna be recording with Renee. And he was like, Okay, yeah, how long? I'm like, Oh, each episode's like about two hours of recording. He was like, Why is it so long? That's why no one's listening. I'm like, that's what a podcast is.
SPEAKER_01Like, it's information. Yeah, I don't I get annoyed when podcasts are less than an hour long. Yeah, but he also completely judges me for our voice notes.
SPEAKER_02Oh, he doesn't voice notes. He'll hear, he'll see me like disappear. I'll be like, hold on, listen to a voice mote vo voice moat and I'll disappear in ten minutes later. Two minutes later two times. I come back and he's like, it was that what it was that long.
SPEAKER_00I'm like, yeah, he was like, I don't know how you guys do that.
SPEAKER_02So then I was like, whatever. People listen to podcasts, bro. Yeah, that's why I was laughing because he was like, Why is it so long?
SPEAKER_01Same couch, same chaos. Yeah, always. See you next session. Emotionally, always. So are we charging?
SPEAKER_02So we're charging for this session.
SPEAKER_01Okay, all right. So are we charging for this session? Emotionally, always.
SPEAKER_02See you next session.
SPEAKER_01Same couch, same chaos. All right, but no, it wasn't at my house. You have it. Look at the other guy. I don't think one of the heart.
SPEAKER_03You don't think sure. Okay.
SPEAKER_01I'm looking up the wave.
SPEAKER_02I know. You think I think you're just talking looking up at you? I know what you're doing. Good dependency and fear of a venom. Then in it. Alright, I'm not gonna sound like a lunatic today. I'm gonna calm down.
SPEAKER_03No? But you're chipping with them. Oh my god, are you recording this?
unknownOh my god.
SPEAKER_02Okay, are you done now? Yeah, I'm done. Mixing these two was a great idea.
SPEAKER_05I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Well, I'm gonna tell you something you better find out.
SPEAKER_00We recording wow, I'm too close to the microphone. Closer to the microphone.
SPEAKER_05I just gotta grab my lippy so my mouth isn't chippy.
SPEAKER_01I'm looking for the episode. Okay, so I just opened it. Which one is it? Codependency. Lit and lit. It's oh wait, lit and lit. Codependency and fair mint. Oh my god. Oh my god. I just got nervous. Why? Because like no, I'm talking about for tomorrow. Oh, you're just high.
SPEAKER_02Okay, you're gonna do fine up prison. Right?
SPEAKER_05I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Do I wanna shake up my whole life right now? What have you been chasing besides shaking up your whole life for the past forever since I've known you? Yeah, but you wanna really talk about it? You wanna really know how I feel about it? Yeah. Yeah, I do. I wanna know what exactly the fuck you've been doing. Shaking things up for the are things not shaking enough? Have they not exploded yet? Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_01So you're just gonna keep shaking? No, but so I'm overwhelmed. It's a lot. But who overwhelmed you? Myself. For what? Purpose? Maybe I was shaking things up.
SPEAKER_02Okay, but you understand. You do that for like you want it for like one minute and then you're over it. Yeah, well, I need help.
SPEAKER_01No, I do think you're gonna do great on the interview. First of all, they're gonna love you because you have so much experience working with like no. That's the thing. So it's like I'm just prepared for it now. Like, okay, I'm gonna get this job now. My life is gonna change. And I'm gonna have to do things different. And I'm gonna like it's it's a lot now that I'm thinking about that. The the job hours, yeah, like that too, but just like not being there anymore, and that's weird. I love it there. Why didn't you think of this before? Is it like an impulsive thing? No. Okay.
SPEAKER_02What's the name of the song? Fear of abandonment and codependency.
SPEAKER_00Okay. You're gonna do fine on the end. Listen, let me tell you something.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. You're gonna everywhere that you apply for a job in your whole entire life, you're going to get the job. It's about the job that you want. You get to choose, not them. They're already choosing you. Yeah, but that's my thing though. Now I'm gonna be anxious about choosing. Okay, well, you know, you've been making decisions for a long time. You should be good at making them.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Okay? It's gonna be fine. You always make the decision. You just don't need to make it right now.
SPEAKER_01Do you feel like if you could what would you what is one thing you could change now if you could go back in this whole snowball effect? I would have just stayed on site the whole time. Yeah. Yeah. That's what, yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't have tried to like go to a different department just because there was more money. Like, I got more money eventually if you stayed on. I love psych, and when I left, I realized like I didn't care about any of that. Yeah. Not to say, like, I don't care about patients. You know what I mean? Like, my passion wasn't there. Yeah. So like going back to psych was so amazing, and being here now is still amazing, but yeah, it's giving psych. It's never gonna give psych. Yeah, so prison is gonna be the closest thing that's gonna give psych. Yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01But I'll put like your psych on in jail. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And you you're gonna work at really, really high-risk people, yeah, decidable people. Yeah. So it'll be kind of like psych. I'm taking a house to a spike. Yeah. A spike near you. So inappropriate. So what?
SPEAKER_02The men are gonna be so inappropriate because you're gorgeous. You're gonna be walking in there, you can get so much of that. I know, I love it. She's really hot. But now she fixes her hair. That's how you're gonna be doing it. Like, so this is you.
SPEAKER_00So tell me what the last suicidal thought was.
SPEAKER_01See? This is why we need you're gonna make them want to stay alive. You have to be there. They're gonna be. I gotta wake up tomorrow to see the wait.
SPEAKER_02See docata.
SPEAKER_01See, doctacle. Are we doing found families right now?
SPEAKER_02We're doing codependent.
SPEAKER_01Do you are you like purposely forgetting? No, I'm looking for it.