Session 22: Fourth Wing & Harry Potter — The Life LIFE Stole From Us

What happens when the life you planned is no longer the life you get?

In this episode of Once Upon a Session, we explore the grief of imagined futures—the careers, relationships, identities, and versions of ourselves that never had the chance to exist.

Through Violet Sorrengail from Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros and Severus Snape from the Harry Potter series by J.K. Rowling, we examine two very different responses to a life that didn’t unfold as expected.

Violet is forced to abandon the future she spent years preparing for and slowly learns to find meaning in a path she never would have chosen. Snape remains emotionally attached to the life he believes he could have had, allowing grief, regret, and unresolved love to shape the person he becomes.

Because sometimes the hardest thing to let go of isn’t the past.

It’s the future we thought was supposed to be ours.

Disclaimer: We’re licensed therapists, but not your therapists. This podcast is for reflection and conversation, not a substitute for therapy.

✨ Follow Once Upon a Session for new episodes exploring stories, psychology, and healing.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:11

Have you ever caught yourself wondering what your life would have looked like if just one thing had gone differently?

SPEAKER_02 0:18

Oh, absolutely. One different decision.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

It's your first five words.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

Well, why would they be so funny? One different decision, one different relationship, one different opportunity.

SPEAKER_04 0:38

And suddenly you created an entire alternate version of yourself.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

The funny thing is, we always imagine that version has it all figured out.

SPEAKER_04 0:48

Because we romanticized the lives we never lived, because they never had the chance to disappoint us.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

Maybe that's why what if it'd be such a dangerous place to live?

SPEAKER_04 0:59

Dun dun dun. Yeah. Let's find out.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

What do you mean? Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

This is once upon a.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

This is once upon a this is once upon a son. Did you hear what I said? This is once upon a letter douche.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

This is once upon a session where two therapists turn their TPR pile into treatment plans. And every story becomes a session. I'm Vanessa. And I'm Narisa. I'm the one who's probably wondered what would have happened if I'd made literally every other decision.

SPEAKER_04 1:44

And I'm the one who sometimes wonders if waiting too long has cost me more.

SPEAKER_03 1:50

I love that it's you today.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Coast me more than taking the risk. Coast me more than taking the risk ever would have. Just a quick note before we dive in.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

We're both licensed therapists, but we're not your therapist.

SPEAKER_04 2:09

Everything we share here is for conversation, reflection, and maybe a little inspiration.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

But it's not a substitute for therapy. If you're struggling, please reach out to a mental health professional who can give you the care and support you deserve.

SPEAKER_04 2:23

Now that you're all checked in, we made it, guys. Have a seat on our couch. Have a seat. Alright. Wow. Today is special.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

Today feels special. It feels special.

SPEAKER_04 2:37

It is special and I'm hungry.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:41

Alright, so let's hurry up. No, just kidding. Just kidding, guys. No, we're not hurrying up.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

You heard what she said a few episodes ago where she's like, if I ever say I'm just kidding, just no, I don't mean it.

SPEAKER_04 2:51

Oh damn, she's pulling out the receipts.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

Okay. Alright, so what's going on?

SPEAKER_04 2:57

There's not much going on in life. Just the same old, same old. Um, work is a non-discussion topic right now.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:09

Yeah. And what are we reading?

SPEAKER_02 3:12

Work is Voldemond. Uncle Voldemond's.

SPEAKER_04 3:17

Work is Uncle Voldemond.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

Yeah, we can't talk about work this week. Yes. But I'm making a lot of changes.

SPEAKER_04 3:24

It it who it what shall not be named. Yeah. It that shall not be named.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

It shall not be named.

SPEAKER_04 3:31

Alright, what are we reading? Well, we went here, there, and everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

We're reading like two books right now.

SPEAKER_04 3:37

Yeah, so we were gonna we started Avatar, then we decided we were gonna take a little break and we got back.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

But we finished Avatar, we started the next book.

SPEAKER_04 3:48

Yeah, I meant like we started the series. Sorry, yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 3:52

But then like we wanted to toe dip into dark romance. And here we are with H. D. Colton.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

But before that, we wanted to just like read like a romance something like that. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:03

I totally forgot we were gonna do that topic.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

Then we didn't, so then we like switch books again. So like just to be clear, we're like book hopping.

SPEAKER_04 4:11

We're book hopping, but yeah. And then I started the romance book that I was reading, and whatever. Everybody can hate me, but like it wasn't giving me romance in the way I like it. And I guess don't hate me because I'm I'm allowed to have a yeah, like it wasn't it wasn't Sam Kyle love.

SPEAKER_02 4:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:31

That's on another level.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

And I can't.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

Yeah. And then if it takes all the way to the end for it to be that, then uh I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 4:38

Yeah, it wasn't giving. And sorry people don't hate me because I was reading um Song of Achilles. And I know it's very popular, but it's not my kind of romance.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

It's not her cup of tea. Nope. Leave her alone about it. Send us all your emails and tell us. You like Achilles. I mean, I hear it's a good book, but like now.

SPEAKER_04 5:04

I DNF'd it and I DNF'd Addie LaRue, and I heard that people are gonna hate me for that too.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

I have the special edition Addie LaRue. That's how much I wanted to love the book. Yeah. Okay, I can't I can't get past like the first couple chapters. Like, I I don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_04 5:19

Me neither.

SPEAKER_02 5:20

Well, I love yeah, the first couple chapters.

SPEAKER_04 5:22

It is the same. We tried it twice.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:25

So you know, maybe it's just not right now in life where I am.

SPEAKER_02 5:29

Yeah. But so while you were reading Achilles, I decided to pick up Divine Rivals and like it's okay so far. Right. But like I I paused it because then we switched gears. Yeah. But like I it was okay. It's like I you know, I think we just need the dark romance.

SPEAKER_04 5:50

I need that intensity.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

The morally gray.

SPEAKER_04 5:53

Yeah, all our things. Yeah. Oh, that's the wrong episode now. We're getting that. Yeah. Save that for next week. Save that for next week. Spoiler alert. Yeah. Okay. But yes. So basically we're saying if the book isn't hooking us and giving us what we want, we're gonna DNF it.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

Yeah, or pause it. Well, yeah, same thing. I mean DNF.

SPEAKER_04 6:15

But like DNF at the moment. Alright. All right. So for our topic question today, uh, what's one risk you hope your future self is grateful you took?

SPEAKER_02 6:29

The risk that I'm taking right now. Okay. Because I mean, if it's all for naught. All for naught. Then it was all for naught.

SPEAKER_04 6:42

What is that from? Where did I hear that? Oh, the House of the Dragon. I heard that recently from there.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

Do you tend to regret the things you did or the things you didn't do?

SPEAKER_04 6:53

Oh, man. I want to hear. Actually, email us your answers to this question because I need to know. Um, I tend to regret the things I didn't do because I have a tendency of getting really comfortable, and then I get so comfortable that doing anything outside of that gives me anxiety, so then I just don't do it. And there's a lot of things that I should have done, coulda, woulda, shoulda.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:23

I should have done, but I didn't, so it's the things that I didn't do.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

Today's session is all about something almost everyone has experienced at one point or another. The life we imagine we would have had if just one decision had gone differently.

SPEAKER_04 7:39

Yeah, we're exploring the psychology behind regret, what if thinking, and why our minds create alternate versions of our lives after difficult choices.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

We'll talk about why our brains replay old decisions, imagine different outcomes, and sometimes convince us that another path would have led to a happier life.

SPEAKER_04 8:00

But hindsight has a funny way of editing the story. We tend to remember the possibilities while forgetting the uncertainty we were living with at the time.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

Using today's stories will explore how these imagined futures can either keep us stuck in the past or help us better understand who we are today.

SPEAKER_04 8:20

Because healing isn't about rewriting your story, sometimes it's about making peace with the chapter you're in and choosing how you want the next one to be written. Yeah. This topic is like deep, guys. And like hopefully you guys are thinking about these things with us too. And you know, whatever. Whatever. Just thinking about your lives. And the coda would have should the life life stole from you. Yes. Alright, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:53

Our brains are natural storytellers. Whenever life doesn't unfold the way we expected, it's completely normal to imagine how things might have turned out if we'd made a different choice.

SPEAKER_04 9:05

Psychologists call this a counterfactual thinking. It's our mind's way of creating alternate realities by asking questions like, what if I'd said yes? Or what if I'd left sooner?

SPEAKER_02 9:20

Sometimes that kind of reflection is actually helpful. Looking back can teach us, help us grow, and shape the decisions we make moving forward.

SPEAKER_04 9:30

But when we get stuck replaying those imagined realities, we start comparing our real life to a version that never had to face uncertainty, setbacks, or disappointment.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

Our minds also fall into something called hindsight bias. Once we know how a story ends, it's easy to believe we should have seen it coming, even though we didn't have that knowledge at the time.

SPEAKER_04 9:57

That's what makes regret so complicated. We're often judging a past version of ourselves using information we only gain because we live through the outcome.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

Healing doesn't mean pretending you don't have regrets. It means recognizing that the person who made those decisions was doing the best they could with the information, experiences, and emotional capacity they had at that time.

SPEAKER_04 10:21

Yeah, that's so true.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:22

Honestly. Um and sometimes the life we think was stolen from us isn't actually something we lost, it's simply one of the many possible stories our mind created. Healing begins when we stop living for the version of ourselves that never existed and start investing in the one who's here today. And that's the problem with us as humans. Like we're either living in the past or living in the future and missing out what's going on in the moment. Yeah. You know, and shit just like I have anxiety about shit that like if I look back now, I would ask myself, like, what the hell were you really even anxious about? Because like it turned out the way it was gonna turn out. So like I had no control over the outcome, but it's so hard, you know, because we have this one life, and we don't know how long we're gonna be here, and we're trying to rush to do all these things so we can like feel like we live the fulfilled life and we're missing out again, like what's happening in the moment. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:26

I like that. Yeah. Some of the most unforgettable stories aren't just about what happens, they're about the possibilities that disappear the moment a character makes one life-changing choice.

SPEAKER_04 11:38

Yeah, whether it's a missed opportunity, a love that never worked out, or a single decision that changes everything, those moments invite us to imagine a future that almost existed.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

That's part of what makes these stories so emotionally powerful. We don't just connect with what the character lost, we can't help imagining the lives they might have lived.

SPEAKER_04 12:01

And because we've all wondered how our own lives might have been different, it's easy to see ourselves in those characters. Their what ifs begin to sound a lot like our own.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

These stories remind us that every decision closes one door while opening another. We rarely get to see both lives at once, which is exactly why the one we didn't choose can seem so compelling.

SPEAKER_04 12:24

Our minds naturally fill in the blanks. Imagining the road not taken would have been simpler, happier, or somehow some or somehow more complete.

SPEAKER_02 12:35

But fiction gives us something real life rarely can. The chance to explore those unlived possibilities without actually having to make the choice ourselves.

SPEAKER_04 12:47

And maybe that's why these stories stay with us. They remind us that while we can't write the chapters behind us, we still have the power to shape the ones that haven't been written yet.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

Yeah, well, let's get into it. This week I'm meeting with Violet Sorengel from Fourth Wing, um, a young woman whose entire future was rewritten before she ever had the chance to choose it.

SPEAKER_04 13:15

Yeah, and I'll be meeting with m Severus Snape from Harry Potter. Harry Potter whose story asks what happens when someone spends a lifetime haunted by the road they never got to take. I'm so excited about that because you know we love Sevi. Sevy Snape. Yeah, we love you so much. Yeah. All right. I don't know who's going first this time. I think it's me. Yes, go ahead, darling.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

So Rebecca Yarros's the Empyrean series begins with Fourth Wing, a romanticy set in the brutal world of Basquiat. I forgot about Basquiat. Um War College, Biskiath War College, where survival is never guaranteed and only the strongest earn the right to bond with a dragon. At the center of the story is Violet Sorengill, a young woman who has spent her entire life preparing for one future. As the daughter of Navarre's commanding general, Violet has always expected to join the scribe quadrant where her love of books, history, and research can would allow allowed her to preserve knowledge rather than fight on the front lines. That was so perfect. It's a future that feels predictable, safe, certain, but on conscription day, that future is taken from her. Instead of becoming a scribe, Violet is ordered into the rider quadrant, a place where cadets train for war, dragons choose their riders, and death is considered part of the curriculum. Physically smaller than many of her peers, and living with a chronic condition that makes her joints more vulnerable, Violet enters a world where nearly everyone assumes she doesn't belong, and many expect she won't survive. What makes Fourth Wing so compelling isn't simply the dragons, the battles, or even the romance. It's watching someone grieve a future they never got the chance to live while slowly discovering that the life they never wanted may be the one that allows them to become the person they were always capable of being. Because sometimes the deepest grief isn't losing someone we love. Sometimes it's letting go of the version of ourselves we thought we were supposed to become. And then the real question becomes when life closes the door, you've spent years preparing to walk through. How do you find the courage to open one you've never planned to enter? Absolutely. She's so good for this time. It's really good actually because I was fighting doing her. I didn't want to do her, but she was one of the first people that I thought, like, okay, I should do her. Yeah. But or I should meet with her. You know? But I just came back, and it's really like that whole her planning for the scribes. Yeah. You know, like her preparing for that her entire life, her entire school career, like whatever. Right, yeah. Just to like on that day be told, like, nah, you're going here. You're gonna be a dragon rider.

SPEAKER_05 16:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:26

And like even physically, right? Like being a scribe is easier on her body.

SPEAKER_07 16:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:32

So like you're like, okay, I have this thing, but like I'm good because I'm just gonna be scribing. Exactly. I'm just a scribe. Um, but yeah, oh my god, that's such a shift. Yeah, yeah, instant.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

Instant. Yeah. Okay, so for Violet, her presenting problems, difficulty adjusting to unexpected life changes, grief related to loss of an imagined future, self-doubt and imposter syndrome, fear of not being capable, and anxiety surrounding uncertainty. And I think that's kind of like what we were saying, right? Like, yeah, that's of course she's gonna feel like that. Of course she's gonna present with those problems.

SPEAKER_04 17:12

Like who wouldn't? Yeah, oh my god. I would die having I'd throw myself off the parapet. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

Some core beliefs. I was supposed to have a different life. I'm not built for this. If my plans fall apart, I'll lose myself. If I can't become who I plan to be, who am I? Treatment goals and objectives, process the loss of an unexpected future, increase psychological flexibility, build confidence in emerging strengths, strengthen identity outside predetermined expectations, interventions, narrative therapy, CBT, like cognitive restructuring, um, DBT, and I'd focus on the radical acceptance and distress tolerance there, strength-based therapy, self-compassion interventions, and meaning making and values exploration, expected outcomes, increased acceptance of life transitions, greater confidence navigating uncertainty, stronger sense of identity, ability to create meaning after unexpected change. This really is a story about grieving the future you thought you'd have long enough to discover the one that was waiting for you.

SPEAKER_04 18:34

Oh my god. The pressure. I'm just thinking about all the pressure, like on her, you know, and not just her being like just some dragon rider. Oh, we just need your help. Like the main one of the main, like everything is on her. Oh, and then her dragon. Oh, let me not. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 18:54

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 18:56

Yeah, you're right. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 18:59

But no, it's like, you know, just yeah, but yeah, her and her dragons.

SPEAKER_04 19:03

Yeah, her dragons. I didn't want to like say too much because well, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 19:07

If you if you haven't read Fourth Wing by now, why are you listening to this podcast? Yeah, exactly. This is the fantasy podcast, and you see that like we try not to spoil. Yeah. But like it happens, and our bleep machine is literally this bleep.

SPEAKER_07 19:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:28

I love how yours was high pitched and mine was like not. Bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep. Yeah, okay. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

Yeah. So oh, that was it? Yeah, that's it. Sorry, I was trying to give you time. I have my time.

SPEAKER_04 19:44

Okay, well, let's move on over here to Severus Snape.

SPEAKER_02 19:49

Yes, please.

SPEAKER_04 19:50

Which is from Harry Potter. If you guys don't know them, honestly, what are you really doing in life? Go watch the movies and read the books. Um, okay. Severus Snape grows up in a home marked by neglect, conflict, and loneliness, spending much of his childhood believing he doesn't truly belong anywhere. His friendship with Lily Evans becomes one of the few places where he feels accepted and understood, but as he searches for identity and belonging elsewhere, he makes choices that permanently alter the course of his life. Oh my god, I just saw him and Lily just laying in the field. Like I'm just picturing them. Yeah. After Lily's death, Snape dedicates himself.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

She died. Sorry.

SPEAKER_04 20:39

Oops. Snape dedicates himself to protecting Harry Potter and working as a double agent against Voldemort. Snape was busy.

SPEAKER_02 20:49

That's Uncle Voldemort.

SPEAKER_04 20:51

Voldemort.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

He's different. This is Voldemort. Voldemort is different, so don't get it twisted.

SPEAKER_04 21:00

Yeah, exactly. While his courage ultimately helps save the wizarding world, his own life remains emotionally frozen. Instead of imagining a future beyond his mistakes, he spends nearly two decades believing redemption requires endless sacrifice. At its core, Harry Potter Harry Potter is not only a story about love and redemption. Through Severus Snape, this was giving me more romance than that book was. Snape and Lily.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Snape and Lily. Yeah, because Lily and Snape after all this time. Snape and Lily. Always.

SPEAKER_04 21:38

Lily and Snape. Through Severus Snape, it explores what happens when grief extends beyond losing someone you love. That's how I felt. Yep. And becomes grieving the life you no longer believe you're allowed to have. Oh, we love Snape so much, guys. It's just an another Underdog. He deserves way more credit. Okay, presenting problem behaviors, persistent rumination over past mistakes and missed opportunities, emotional withdrawal and difficulty allowing himself joy or meaningful connection.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

A lot of judges.

SPEAKER_04 22:19

And self-worth rooted in guilt, sacrifice, and lifelong self-punishment. Core themes, grieving the life that never happened. Shame versus self-forgiveness. Redemption, identity, and rebuilding after irreversible loss. Core belief is the worst thing I've ever done is all I'll ever deserve to be remembered for. And that's so sad.

SPEAKER_07 22:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 22:43

Treatment goals. Process the grief associated with both Lily's death and the future he stopped believing was possible. Challenge the belief.

SPEAKER_07 22:53

Impossible.

SPEAKER_04 22:56

A little music intermission there. Sorry. That's okay. I love it. Please give us more.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

I don't know what I did.

SPEAKER_04 23:10

You have all these unread text messages.

SPEAKER_02 23:13

Um this is the house of magic. The house of science. We're gonna have fucking dings and dongs and dogs and what's going on. Yeah, it's 2027.

SPEAKER_04 23:28

I'm sure I have it somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

Oh, that's a lot. But there was a time when we knew all the things.

SPEAKER_04 23:50

Yeah, we did. We had so much time on our hands. Um, okay, challenge the belief that redemption requires lifelong suffering. Separate identity from past mistakes while maintaining accountability and rebuilding a sense of purpose that includes hearing, not just sacrifice. Okay, what progress looks like recognizes that one mistake does not define the entirety of his identity, allows himself to imagine a future beyond atonement, and understands that honoring those he's lost does not require abandoning himself. So the outcome for years, Snape believes the only way to make peace with the past, peace with the past, peace with the past, take the path for years.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Oh, is there a picture of pictures in your past? So funny because the guy is um serious, the same actor.

SPEAKER_03 24:50

Oh shit. Shut the fuck up, y'all.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

It's the same act. That was really good. And they were like friends, those these two. I saw the picture.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

What picture?

SPEAKER_04 25:11

I found the picture. The picture. The picture of my wife, I found it in your back.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

Oh my god, that's so funny. I hate how you know the line. That's how many times you watch Fred's on right now. That's so funny. And the other time I was here, it was the picture in the pack.

SPEAKER_04 25:39

Oh my god, that's so funny. Okay, oh god, hello. For years, Snape believes the only way to make peace with this past is to put is to put the picture in the pack. I can't move on. You're so funny today. For years, Snape believes the only way to make peace with his past is to put the picture in the pack.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

He did it. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 26:09

Is to spend the rest of his life paying for it. Every act of courage, every sacrifice, and every difficult choice becomes another attempt to balance the skill he believes can never truly be even. Healing wouldn't erase his grief or undo the consequences of his actions. Instead, it would allow him to see that redemption isn't measured by how much we suffer. It's measured by how we choose to live after we fall in. Sometimes the greatest loss isn't the person we couldn't save, it's the version of ourselves we stopped believing could still exist. Oh, Snape. To the end, loyal to the end.

SPEAKER_02 26:51

After all this time.

SPEAKER_04 26:53

Always.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

We charge her for the session. Motion treatment team meeting. Is that where we got that from? Clipboards out.

SPEAKER_07 27:01

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

Alright. Alright, so if they walked into our hour, ow, ow, ow. Power hour. But if Violet Soringale walked into my office, my first impressions would probably be this is someone whose entire identity has recently been turned upside down. She she'd likely present as capable and determined. Violet doesn't seem resistant to change. She seems overwhelmed by how quickly everything changed. She enters an environment where skills that wants to find her no longer feel valuable. And like honestly, this hits home for me. That line right there. Yeah, say it one more time. She enters an environment where the skills that wants to find her no longer feel valuable. Oh shit. Because this is like when I moved from psych to med surge, like all my clinical skills were just like not really valued there because they're on some other shit. Mm-hmm. That's why I had to get out of there, people.

SPEAKER_04 28:15

Yeah. Excuse me. It's so true, and then you can't waste those skills because they're so good.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

Yeah, that's a huge identity shift. Many clients experience something similar after career changes, illness, divorce, infertility, military transition, or unexpected loss.

SPEAKER_04 28:33

Like it's like really big. That's a huge deal. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Well, if Snape walked into my my office, I don't think we'd be talking about Lily first. I think we'd be Yes, you would. He would be like, oh I know, Lily. I know. I think we'd be talking about a man who's been grieving the person he never allowed himself to become. But yeah, definitely Lily and Harry and everybody. Well, actually, yeah. Yeah, I was gonna say actually he died, so.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

They all died in there.

SPEAKER_04 29:06

I know, they did. Alright. Clinically, Snape presents as someone whose life has become organized around guilt instead of growth.

SPEAKER_02 29:15

Organized crime. I'm sorry, why am I interrupting your session? No, I don't care. Please interrupt.

SPEAKER_04 29:21

He isn't just carrying regret, he's building his entire identity around it. Alright, what would they say versus reality? Oh my god, you changed your outfit. I look up when she did an outfit change. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

Okay, so Violet would say, Violent. Violence. Um Violet would say, I don't belong here clinically. I'd wonder if the deeper belief is I don't recognize myself anymore. Because belonging often starts with identity. And I think that's really true for her. Like she, you know, she would she's like, I don't belong here. Like I don't fit in. Like I can't do this.

SPEAKER_04 30:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

Okay, I'll be right back. I'm trying to therapy.

SPEAKER_04 30:10

No, no, no. I'm just trying to get comfortable. You need pillows. No, no, I'm good. All right then. Alright.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

So what would they say the problem is?

SPEAKER_04 30:17

So Snape would probably tell us that the past can't be changed. None of this matters anymore. But underneath that is someone who quietly stopped believing he deserved a future after one irreversible mistake. Irreversible But underneath that's a bell.

SPEAKER_02 30:33

You must then know about me.

SPEAKER_04 30:36

But underneath that, it's some underneath that is someone who quietly stopped believing.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

Let her do stuff. Yeah, let me do my line. Let me let me do my line. Okay, go.

SPEAKER_04 30:49

But underneath that, it's someone who quietly stopped believing he deserved a future after one irreversible mistake.

SPEAKER_03 30:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:59

Special patronum.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

Scoliosis. Maybe from Nerisa. Mounin. Ugh, I know. And then I went away. It's like catching up now. That's so weird.

SPEAKER_05 31:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:12

Okay, so what I'd work on first. Yeah. So I'd begin by validating the grief that comes with losing an imagined future. From there, we'd gradually work towards radical acceptance, not because what happened was fair or what she wanted, but because fighting reality often prolongs suffering. Acceptance isn't approval, it isn't giving up, it's acknowledging this is where I am. Only then can we begin asking, given the life that's in front of me, what do I want to become? This episode is speaking to my soul.

SPEAKER_04 31:48

Yeah, it's so good. Yeah. Alright, for Snape, the first thing we'd work on is to explore the belief that redemption and self-punishment are the same thing. Because somewhere along the way, Snape confused surviving with living. Yeah. Yeah. Alright, counter transference. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

Well, if you couldn't have picked up on the tone, you'll see this countertransference is um It's too real. Yeah. So working with Violet, I think I'd experience quite a bit of countertransference. As someone who's also had to grieve a professional path, I thought I was supposed to be on. I'd probably connect deeply with her struggle to let go of an identity that no longer fit the reality in front of her. I'd have to be mindful not to project my own hopes for resolution onto her or assume that she's ready to find meaning in her situation just because I might be searching for that myself. Clients deserve the space to mourn the life they imagine before we encourage them to embrace the one they're giving. Sometimes the most therapeutic thing we can do isn't help someone move on. It's simply sit with them while they grieve what could have been.

SPEAKER_04 33:04

That's so true. Like we're so and I catch myself doing it too, like solution focused, solution focused. Like, let's find a solution. And then like when it's not happening, I have to stop and be like, okay, what's going wrong here? Because they're not ready to move on. And it's because I'm not sitting with them in the moment and letting them process in the moment. So that's so true. Yeah, we're always jumping to the solution, and it's like, do we what are we even saluting? You know, what are we solving?

SPEAKER_02 33:35

I think like yesterday, bleep like bleep like bleep like bleep like no, but bleep for like was able to understand that like I'm not falling apart, yeah, but like I need time to sit in this and sit with this and process. I'm not looking for like all that. Right, right. I don't know. Yeah. I'm cutting this anyway, but it's like for the first time he was able to see that like I just needed to be in here and it was cool, and he kind of sat with me through that. Yeah, you know, he didn't try to change anything, he didn't say like oh get over that. You know, because he's been like that before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was actually really nice to like be in his company.

SPEAKER_04 34:19

Yeah. Yeah. And there was like no pressure, right? You're just sitting in what yeah, yeah. So for Snape, there would be so much empathy for the version of Snape who believes one chapter determined the rest of his story. At the same time, we gently challenged a belief that healing somehow dishonors the people we've lost. I would have just I don't know, Snape would be hard for me to do therapy with. Like because like just knowing the background and like what you know, it's just hard. I have too much empathy for those type of people who have this background story who were made to look bad, but like if Lily could have just you know followed her heart, yeah, instead of like what Lily, you're a problem popular Potter kid. Yeah, you know, Lily need a cudda would have showed. Well, never mind. She did. She's done. Yeah. Alright, but yeah. Yeah, we already spoiled it. Oh well, sorry, it's Harry Potter. Bye. We can maybe forgive you for throwing a glass and never Harry Potter. And bascat basquiats, but never Harry Potter. Alright, interventions.

SPEAKER_02 35:32

Alright, so one intervention I'd come back to often with Violet is like I said, radical acceptance. Not because I want her to stop wishing things had been different, and not because what happened to her was fair, but because so much of her suffering comes from trying to reconcile the life she planned with the life she's actually living. Radical acceptance isn't saying I'm glad this happened, it's saying this is my reality. Once we stop fighting reality, we can begin asking a different question. Given where I am now, who do I want to become? That's where the healing begins.

SPEAKER_05 36:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:09

So yeah, definitely radical acceptance.

SPEAKER_04 36:14

Love radical acceptance. Okay, for Snape, a lot of the work would focus a lot. Yeah. Oh my god, gelato. Oh my god. Um people one life thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

I'm going to Italy. Oh yeah. And uh 50 days, 60 days. And gelato. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:39

And out of lemons. Anyway. Yes. Lemoncello. Lemoncello. Um, a lot of the work sh would focus on grief, shame, and self-forgiveness, and reconstructing an identity that isn't solely defined by his worst decision. We'd help Snape see that redemption isn't only about protecting others, it's also about believing you're still worthy of a life.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:06

Yeah. Alright. Wish a hard truth for violence.

SPEAKER_02 37:09

Hard truth for Violet. Um, sometimes healing isn't getting your old life back. It's realizing you don't need it anymore. Yeah. You got something to say?

SPEAKER_04 37:26

Not in agreement. Alright, my hard truth is that guilt can become comfortable. Not because it feels good, but it convinces us we no longer have to imagine anything better. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:47

Yeah. Alright, let's bring it back to real life. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

Alright. So bringing it back to real life, this is why I think um Violet resonates with so many readers. Most of us have experienced the loss of an imagined future. The career that didn't happen, the relationship that ended, the family we thought we'd have, the version of ourselves we expected to become. And maybe healing isn't pretending that those losses don't matter. Maybe it's trusting that life can still surprise us.

SPEAKER_04 38:27

That's so true.

SPEAKER_03 38:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:29

And life can definitely surprise us.

SPEAKER_03 38:32

Well we'll find out. Receiving.

SPEAKER_04 38:36

Yes. Alright. So my bringing it back to real life is so many people quietly mourn lives they never got to live. The marriage they imagined, the career they planned, the family they hoped to build, the version of themselves they thought they'd become before trauma, loss, or one painful chapter changed everything. Healing isn't forgetting that life. It's choosing not to lose the one that's still waiting for you.

SPEAKER_05 39:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:07

So good. So true. Alright, it's time for the pain. The pain.

SPEAKER_02 39:16

It's the pain and the black. The pain and the blood. It's the pain and the black. Alright.

SPEAKER_04 39:22

Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 39:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 39:24

What's your moment?

SPEAKER_02 39:25

My moment is literally when Violet is forced into the writer quadrant and realizes the future she spent her entire life preparing for no longer exists. The pain is grief over an imagined future, loss of identity, fear of failure, uncertainty, imposter syndrome, difficulty trusting herself. The shift begins recognizing strengths she never valued, builds meaningful relationships, develops confidence through experience, starts redefining what success looks like. The plot. Losing one future forces Violet to imagine another. Each challenge reveals strengths she never needed in her old life. And because she slowly begins trusting herself, she stops trying to become the person she planned to be and starts becoming the person she's capable of becoming. I don't know. And I don't know if the pain is worth the plot.

SPEAKER_04 40:34

I don't know, but I'm already saying no. Yeah. Snape should've had the life he deserved.

SPEAKER_03 40:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:44

Yeah. I mean, I think Violet's shit was cool. She got two dragons. It's like this whole thing. Like she lives a maybe it's destiny because she does the whatever. Yeah. But I don't know, maybe maybe this had to happen. Yeah. Had to happen.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Had to happen.

SPEAKER_02 41:00

But maybe this had to happen for the book to make sense. Like this is why it makes sense. But like speaking of her as a real person, like and if this happened, it's like this wouldn't be worth it for that plot. But for the book, sure, because it's the premise of the book.

SPEAKER_05 41:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:16

Yeah. The series is still unfinished, so we'll find out if the pain was really worth the plot.

SPEAKER_03 41:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:24

Yeah. Alright, so my moment is the moment that Harry watches the Princess Tale and the Penn C after Snape's death. Y'all lock in with me real quick because you know what I'm talking about. For the first time, we witness Snape's life through his own memories. From the lonely boy who found belonging with Lily to the man who spent nearly two decades protecting Harry in silence. The memories reveal not only the choices that shaped him, but the future he quietly gave up believing he deserved. Ugh. Alright, the pain, losing not only Lily, but the future he imagined for himself. Allowing one irreversible mistake to become the defining chapter of his identity, believing his purpose was to spend the rest of his life paying for the past instead of building a future. So for the shift, uh channels his grief into protecting Harry rather than allowing himself to heal. Chooses lifelong service and sacrifice over connection, joy, or hope, and mistakes endless self-punishment for redemption. The plot spends years living in secrecy, carrying the weight of impossible choices without recognition, helps bring about Voldemort's defeat through unwavering courage and sacrifice, and leaves behind a story that reminds us redemption isn't only about changing the ending. It's about asking whether we ever allow ourselves to live after the worst chapter of our lives. Of our lives. Oh, that was the last one.

SPEAKER_03 43:20

I love him, I love him.

SPEAKER_04 43:21

Deathly Hallows 2. I feel like I want to go watch that now.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

Just uh Meet you at the crossroads. Crossroads.

SPEAKER_04 43:31

Meet you. I'm gonna miss everybody. I'm gonna miss everybody. Okay. It's time for fun. Okay, well, go ahead. The crossroads.

SPEAKER_02 43:42

Yeah. Welcome to the crossroads.

SPEAKER_04 43:44

We're going to read different life changing moments. For each one, we'll have to choose a path. And live with everything that choice comes with.

SPEAKER_02 43:55

There's no perfect answer.

SPEAKER_04 43:57

Because every path gives you something and asks you. To leave something behind.

SPEAKER_02 44:02

Alright.

SPEAKER_04 44:02

Alright.

SPEAKER_02 44:04

Prompt one. You wake up tomorrow and discover the life you've always dreamed about actually exists. But if you choose it, you can never return to the one you're living right now. Do you walk through the door, stay where you are, ask to see what's on the other side first, or burn the invitation? I would walk through the door. Yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_04 44:25

Yeah. Mm-hmm. I'm fine with that. Yeah. Alright. You can rewrite one chapter of your life, but every chapter after it changes to. Do you rewrite it? Leave the story exactly as it is, rewrite a different chapter instead, or close the book and never look back.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

I would rewrite it. I mean, maybe I would rewrite a different chapter instead after I find after I found out that every chapter after it changed. Yeah. So then I would rewrite. I was torn between those two. Yeah. So it depends on what the context is. Yeah. But it's one of those. I agree. Okay. Yeah. Okay. You meet the version of yourself who made the opposite choice. What's the first thing you ask? Are you happy? Was it worth it? What did it cost you? Or do you ever think about the life I lived?

SPEAKER_04 45:18

Um, I would ask myself, are you happy?

SPEAKER_02 45:21

Hmm. I would ask myself, do you ever think about the life I lived? Because that would tell me if they're happy or not. Okay. That's fair. I think if they're like really, really happy, they could look at it and be like, oh, I wonder what the person is over there. But more than not, more likely than not, I feel like it's the other person. Like, damn, like life is crazy. Yeah. I wish I, you know, what if I had made that other that's so interesting.

SPEAKER_04 45:48

I love that. How you always thinking depth. Oh my gosh. True Aquarius. I love it. I love that answer. Thank you. Yeah. You're right. And it would tell if you're happy or not. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 46:02

Alright. You're offered the answer to one question that's haunted you for years. But once you know the truth, you can never unknow it. Do you say tell me everything? I'd rather keep wondering. Only if it changes something, or depends on who's hurt by the answer. I would tell me everything.

SPEAKER_02 46:28

You said tell you everything? Yeah, it's fine.

SPEAKER_04 46:31

I'll deal with it.

SPEAKER_02 46:33

I don't know. I would be between tell me everything and only if it changes something.

SPEAKER_04 46:38

Because if you know Yeah, if it's not what I want to hear. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:45

If it's just something, but I can't, if it's not gonna change anything. Yeah. There's nothing I could do or whatever, then what's the point of even engaging in engaging in engaging in this? Yeah. That's a good engaging.

SPEAKER_01 46:57

Engaging.

SPEAKER_02 46:58

I like it. Alright. Someone you love chooses someone else. 20 years later, they tell you, I picked the wrong person. It's too late. I'd hear them out. Thank you, but I've moved on. And I wish you'd never told me.

SPEAKER_04 47:13

So yeah. My like first reaction was to be rude and be like, it's too late. But then I thought about it a little bit more and I said, Thank you, but I've moved on. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 47:25

Yeah. Even if you haven't moved on.

SPEAKER_04 47:30

That's a good question. You added another question to that question. Um No, I would say it's too late. Yeah, it's it's too late.

SPEAKER_02 47:40

But I mean, maybe it's not, you know, thank you, but I've moved on.

SPEAKER_04 47:43

Mm-hmm. You can erase your biggest heartbreak, but you'd also erase every lesson and every person that came because of it. Do you erase it? Keep it keep every painful part. I honestly don't know. Or it depends on who'd I'd bec on who I'd become. It depends on who I'd become.

SPEAKER_02 48:05

I would keep every painful part because you never know who came into your life. Like, do you know around that time or who was brought into your life around there? You might fuck around and lose me.

SPEAKER_04 48:21

Yeah. I I agree with you. You know? Yeah, I would keep my pain because everything where I'm at now was so worth it. The pain was worth the plot. Yeah. So I would keep it.

SPEAKER_02 48:34

It's such a like a blessing to say that. Like you know, and it's like such a privilege. And I love that because I feel that too. And it's like for you to be able to just be like on a random Thursday right now. Yeah. Say, yeah, the pain is worth the plot for my life right now. Like, that's such a flex. Like, it's like, yeah, I'm doing good. Like the pain is worth the plot. Whatever I've been through. Yeah. It's worth it. Cause right now where I'm at, I'm good. Yeah. You know, like so that feels good. Oh, yeah. And it's just, I love it. The point that the part the the pain is worth the plot. What you forgot.

SPEAKER_04 49:11

What you forgot, the pain is worth the fact that you're saying it and like I'm hearing how you're saying it.

SPEAKER_02 49:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:18

In that, like the way you're saying it, because I don't think about it like that. And it's yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:23

You know how you say, like, you wish you were in my brain for a day. Yeah. I now do wish you would be in there. I always tell you the same thing. I'm like, no, you wouldn't, you don't want to be in there. Yeah. But like now, I actually wish you would, because if you it's going to think too fast. Yeah, just slow it down.

SPEAKER_04 49:40

I slowed, I need to slow down my thinking. Cause like that's so true and it's so brilliant. And like it, yeah, because I'm not when I'm doing it the way I'm doing it, I'm not taking the moment to appreciate how I've overcome these things. And it's like you just solved it and you moved on. You just solved it and you move on. And that's like one of my problems is that like I just solved the thing and I move on. But like I don't really acknowledge what it took for me to do.

SPEAKER_02 50:12

Like you send it away, close it away just as information. Right. But it's like if you're like walking through it, like not to like Yeah, no, dragging.

SPEAKER_04 50:22

Sorry, you're not on the video. Right.

SPEAKER_02 50:24

Not to like drag through it. But but if you like go through the lesson, then it's like you learn it, it's like embedded versus sending it to a place for storage. Yeah. It's now embedded in your right.

SPEAKER_04 50:38

I need to just slow down and like live in those moments and appreciate them a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 50:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:45

You know? Yeah. Love that. Okay, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 50:49

Alright. You finally get everything you once begged life to give you. But it arrives ten years too late. Oh, better late than never. I need it. I needed it then, not now. I'd still take it. And some doors are meant to stay closed.

SPEAKER_04 51:11

You know, honestly, better late than never.

SPEAKER_02 51:16

Yeah, I'd still take it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:19

I'd still take it because I feel like better late than never is like I'd still take it.

SPEAKER_02 51:25

Yeah, I think it's the same thing. But it's it's like you're living and you have like you're just one body, but you have like so much in you, like your inner child, like people, like different stages of you. Yeah, you might it might be ten years late, but you might want to reflect on that in the next ten years. Right. You know, so it's never really too late.

SPEAKER_04 51:48

I agree with that. Yeah. So I would absolutely take it. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Life gives you one chance to go back. You can relive one single day. Do you relive the happiest day, the worst day, the day everything changed, or I wouldn't go back at all?

SPEAKER_02 52:09

Oh, this sucks so bad because, like, I would want to live the happiest day, but I'm my heart is being so pulled to going to that day the worst day.

SPEAKER_05 52:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:21

You know, like yeah, yeah. Because obviously I'm thinking about Lexi, right? So, oh my god, like I might actually cry right now. Because I could say, like, oh, I'd wanna go back to the very first day I had her and just hold her, but it's like that wasn't really my girl yet.

SPEAKER_04 52:41

Yeah, you know, so like I would go back to the last day when she was there, and I was yeah, you know, because you had your her whole life, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:51

Wow, that when it left.

SPEAKER_04 52:53

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_02 52:55

What would you do?

SPEAKER_04 52:57

That's a really tough one.

SPEAKER_02 52:59

Yeah, you know what, people, while she's singing about it, I don't cry a lot, like it takes so much to make me cry, and like the tear hasn't actually fallen. No, but like I can see that I spot. Yeah. Um, I don't know what it is. Like, so for books, sometimes I'm like, I want a book to just like tear me apart. Yeah, I want like those are the books I need, so those are the recommendations I need. Yeah, but but yeah, it takes so much, like even when you guys were watching that movie and everyone was like sobbing, like ugly crying to it. Yeah, I think it was she went to Italy or something, right? Yeah, the cooking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and y'all were all crying, and I did not cry, I didn't even shed a tear for that.

SPEAKER_04 53:44

I cried, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:45

Sorry.

SPEAKER_04 53:46

No, that's fine. Yeah, I do need a book. I don't know. I think Kingdom of Ash made me cry. I'm trying to think of the books that didn't make me cry, but I need more books to make me cry. Send your recommendations, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:00

And don't send a little life because no, that's already on the TBR.

SPEAKER_04 54:05

Yeah, we still have that. Yeah. Um, I don't even know what my happiest day was, so like I don't know.

SPEAKER_07 54:15

Hmm.

SPEAKER_04 54:16

You know what I mean? Like, I don't know, so I don't know that I would go there.

SPEAKER_02 54:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:22

And I don't know the day everything changed.

SPEAKER_02 54:24

Uh yeah, I had the day everything changed. Yes, I agree. So that you can do th differently.

SPEAKER_05 54:34

Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:36

Yeah. That's it. That's my answer. Because you know, yes, I like, like I said, I like how you did it, but like I think for him, he should have gotten that sit-down. Like, whatever it is, if you want this friendship, if you like, give me a chance to like have an option here, whether I'm in or out, whether I agree with this or not. Because like at a point you wanted children, right? At a point you wanted to get married. Yeah, so it's like you didn't have that. That's a life that life stole from you. Yeah. Because 100%. It's the life that bleep stole from you. Yeah. And that's fucked up.

SPEAKER_05 55:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:13

Yeah. He could have done whatever. Yeah. But just tell me so I can have my life too.

SPEAKER_04 55:17

That's so true.

SPEAKER_02 55:18

But I'm glad you don't have any funnies.

SPEAKER_04 55:21

No.

SPEAKER_02 55:22

But like I'm welcoming if they come and if no, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:26

I just You're absolutely right. No, yeah. It's just been uncut. No, but you're absolutely right. Like, I yeah, I could have done more, but I think in the moment I was just like just out of sight, out of mind immediately. Like, I don't want nothing to do with any of this. Yeah. But yeah, that would have been a really nice. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:50

The day everything changed. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 55:53

You can guarantee yourself a happy future, but you'll never know if your biggest dream would have come true. I'll take my guaranteed happiness, or I'll take the guaranteed happiness. I'll risk everything for the dream. I'll make a new dream. Or I'd rather not know. I'll make a new dream.

SPEAKER_04 56:15

Yeah, that's where I went immediately first. And then, like, I was like, well, I'll take the guaranteed happiness too, because then I can make a new dream. Like, yeah, that's what I'm thinking. It's the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 56:25

Like, I'm taking the guaranteed happiness.

SPEAKER_04 56:27

You're given one hour to visit the life you never lived. What do you spend it doing? Oh my god. Meeting the person you would have loved, seeing who you became, visiting the home you've always imagined, or walking away before it becomes too hard to leave. I would want to see who I became.

SPEAKER_02 56:48

I would want to meet the person who who I would have loved because then I feel like they could have, you know, told me like who I am and stuff like that. But like, I don't know. I guess in a way I'd still want to see who I became, but also I feel like this is two birds.

SPEAKER_04 57:08

It's a part of part of that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:11

Okay. Last one. It's yours. Right before you leave, you're told something. Every wrong decision you made secretly protected you from something worse. What's your first reaction? Relief, gratitude, disbelief. I'd still wonder what could have been.

SPEAKER_04 57:31

I'm grateful. So gratitude for me.

SPEAKER_02 57:35

I would be in disbelief. I would be in disbelief. Like I don't believe that. Like maybe, but I don't know. You know. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:45

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 57:48

That's a good one. Alright. It's time for what would your therapist say? We'll read a client statement, then share four questions a therapist might ask. This is like a fake client statement, not real, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 58:05

As you listen, think about which question your own therapist would probably ask you.

SPEAKER_04 58:10

Then we'll each pick the one that we need to hear most and explain why. Okay. Okay. So you guys pick yours and we're gonna pick ours. Alright, I'll go first. Um, so relationships. Client says, I keep telling myself to leave, but every time I try, I convince myself to stay. So what would my therapist say? Or what would your therapist say? What keeps pulling you back? If you met this person today, knowing everything you know now, would you choose them again? What are you hoping staying will give you that leaving can't? And are you holding on to the relationship or the future you imagined with them? Um, so the one I would need to hear the most would be what are you hoping staying will give you that leaving can't? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:06

Yeah, I agree. It would have to be that, or are you holding on to the relationship or the future you imagine? Client says every Monday I tell myself I'm going to quit, and every Friday I talk myself out of it. What would your therapist say? What need is this job meeting for you right now? What's the biggest fear that comes up when you think about leaving? What's the cost of staying exactly where you are? If you trusted yourself to handle whatever happened next, would your decision change?

SPEAKER_04 59:40

For me, I would need to hear what's the biggest fear that comes up when you think about leaving?

SPEAKER_02 59:46

I think um I would have to do what's the cost of staying exactly where you are. Mm-hmm. Because then I'm putting it down and then this is it.

SPEAKER_04 59:54

It's so funny because like that's what you'll tell me. Like, what's the cost of staying? Like, not in those words, but you'll be like, like, so what when you stay where you are, then what? You know?

SPEAKER_05 1:00:04

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:05

And of course I have anxiety, so the fear. Okay. Every major dis okay, so the client says every major decision I've made has been about making someone else proud. What would your therapist say? When was the last time you asked yourself what you wanted? What are you afraid would happen if someone was disappointed in you? Can you survive someone else's disappointment? Or whose approval are you still trying to earn?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:40

I think what what are you afraid would happen? Like if someone was disappointed in you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:56

Um I think for me it would be whose approval are you still trying to earn? Yeah. Because that's just like been my thinking my whole life, you know? So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:10

Okay. Life expectations. The client says, sometimes I feel like everyone else got the life I was supposed to have. What would your therapist say? Who decided what your life was supposed to look like? Are you grieving your reality or the expectation you had for it? What parts of your current life deserve more attention than they're getting? Or what would you change if you stopped measuring your life against an imagined one?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:41

I think it would be the first one for me. Who decided what your life was supposed to look like?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:46

What parts of your current life deserve more attention than they're getting? But like this one is tough. Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:53

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:54

I don't think I would want to hear any of those.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:57

Alright, success. Uh client says, I spent years chasing this life, and now that I'm here, I don't know why I thought it would feel different. What would your therapist say? What were you hoping this achievement would change? What does enough actually mean to you? If success couldn't change how you feel about yourself, what could? And are you chasing accomplishment or acceptance?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:24

Maybe what were you hoping this achievement would change?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:28

That's that would be mine too. Yeah. I agree. Or like my second was like, what does enough actually mean? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:36

Right? Okay. Risk. Client says, I can't tell if I'm being patient or just making excuses because I'm scared. Uh-huh. That's me. What would your therapist say? What would ready actually what would ready actually feel like? What's the cost of waiting? What's one small step that feels uncomfortable but possible? If fear wasn't making this decision, what would you choose?

SPEAKER_04 1:03:07

For me, I would pick the first one. What would ready actually feel like?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:14

I'd pick the second. What's the cost of waiting?

SPEAKER_07 1:03:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:19

That's so funny.

unknown 1:03:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:22

Our answers are like so opposite, but like I love it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Alright, friendship. Client says, I feel like I've outgrown some of my friendships, and I don't know if that makes me a bad person. What would your therapist say? What does this friendship ask of you today? Are you growing apart or avoiding an honest conversation? Can people care about each other and still grow in different directions? What are you afraid this change says about you?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:53

I'm somewhere between the the bottom two.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:56

Yeah. The third is mine. Can people care about each other and still grow in different directions? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:01

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yep. Okay, growth and healing. Client says sometimes I can't tell if I've healed or if I've just become really good at avoiding getting hurt. What would your therapist say? What feels different about how you respond now? Are your boundaries creating connection or distance? What would healthy vulnerability look like today? Is this peace or is this protection?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:30

Um, I'm thinking the last one for me. Is this peace or is this protection?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:38

I'm going with the first one. What feels different about how you respond now? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:45

Okay, so for perfectionism, the client says I'm exhausted. Professional. Yeah. Client says I'm exhausted from trying to make the right decision because I'm terrified of making the wrong one. What would your therapist say? Okay, what would making the wrong decision mean about you? Are you looking for the perfect choice or the best one you can make today? How much certainty do you need before you're willing to move forward? And what would it look like to trust yourself even if things don't go as planned? Just look at one two. I'm gonna go with the first one. What would making the wrong decision mean about you?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:24

I'm at the bottom two. I'm thinking three, but then also four. I'd wanna know. Okay. So how much certainty do you need before you're willing to move forward? And what would it look like to trust yourself even if things don't go as planned? Yeah, those are really good too. They're all really good, honestly. Yeah. Alright, there's your head.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:47

All right.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:49

Change. Client says the people around me keep saying I've changed, and I don't know if that's a compliment or a criticism. What would your therapist say? What parts of yourself have changed in ways you're proud of? What are you grieving about, the version of yourself you used to be? Who benefits from you staying the same? Is it possible that feeling unfamiliar doesn't mean you're becoming someone you're not?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:18

I'm thinking I'm going for the last one. Like, is it possible that feeling unfamiliar doesn't mean you're becoming someone you're not?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:25

Okay. Yeah. I'm going with the third one. Okay. Who benefits from you staying the same? Yeah. Right? Because if you can't tell if you're not going to be able to do it. There's like a pattern with your answers, and I love it. Because I know you and like I know. And I'm like, if you can't tell if it's a criticism or a compliment, you'll see. Yeah. Because the criticism is going to come from the one that benefits from you not changing. So that they can continue to take advantage or whatever they're benefiting. Boundaries. The client says, Every time I finally choose myself, I end up feeling guilty. What would your therapist say? What does that guilt tell you you're responsible for? Can guilt sometimes be a sign you're breaking an old pattern instead of doing something wrong? What would you tell someone you love if they were in your position? And what would choosing yourself look like if guilt wasn't making the decision?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:22

I'm going a two and four. So can guilt sometimes be a sign you're breaking an old pattern instead of doing something wrong? Or what would choosing yourself look like if guilt wasn't making the decision? Those are the ones. But like if I had to pick one of those two I would go for the last one. Choosing myself look like. Blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:52

I think I'm going for the first two. What does that guilt tell you you're responsible for? And can guilt sometimes be a sign you're breaking an old pattern instead of doing something wrong? Mm-hmm. I like both of those, but if I had to choose between those two, um I would I would go with the first one.

unknown 1:08:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:15

Yeah. I love it.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:17

Okay, comparison. The client says, I know comparison is unhealthy, but I can't seem to stop doing it. What would your therapist say? Compared to whose timeline? What story are you telling yourself about everyone else's life? Well, I have to say it like questions. What are you overlooking because you're busy measuring yourself against someone else? Uh, what would your life look like if comparison wasn't in the driver's seat? I would it would be the third one for me. What are you overlooking because you're busy measuring yourself against someone else?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:54

I think I would do two. What story are you telling yourself about everyone else's life? Because like you clearly don't know. So like what do you you know?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:06

Alright, uncertainty. The client says, I wish someone could just tell me what the right decision is. What would your therapist say? What feels hard about not knowing? Are you looking for certainty or permission? Permission. What would help you trust yourself more than someone else's answer? If there wasn't one perfect choice, how would you decide?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:29

What would help you trust yourself more than someone else's answer? That's my answer too. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:36

Yeah, we finally got the same one.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:38

Okay, go. Alright, regret. Client says I keep replaying one decision over and over. Like if I think about it enough, it I'll somehow change what happened.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:48

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:49

What would your therapist say? Oh my god. What are you hoping you'll find by replaying it? Are you judging that decision with the information you had then or the information you have now? What would it mean to accept that you can't rewrite the past? Or if a friend told you this story, would you judge them as harshly as you're judging yourself?

SPEAKER_04 1:10:21

I'm gonna go with the second one. Are you judging that decision with the information you had then or the information you have now?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:35

I'd be between one and two. What are you hoping you'll find by replaying it and that one? But I'd really want to know. Like I'd want them to I'd want to know what I'm hoping I'd find by replaying it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:52

I'd want to use all of these in real life. Like for myself. Okay. Purpose. Is it me? Yes, it's me. Purpose. Client says, I keep waiting for my life to feel like it's really beginning. What would your therapist say? What are you waiting for before you give yourself permission to fully live? What if this season of your life isn't the waiting room? Are you postponing joy until you've accomplished something? If this chapter mattered just as much as the next one, what would you do differently?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:30

I think the third one, are you postponing joy until you've accomplished something? Because if you're still waiting for life to feel like it's really beginning, then it's maybe like you're in school, maybe I'm in school, maybe whatever, but I think that's what I'd need. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:49

I would go with the first one. What are you waiting for before you give yourself permission to fully live? Yeah. Wow, that's so crazy how this like really speaks to us. Like based on our life experience.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:03

Like, are you postponing joy until you've accomplished? Because what are you waiting for before you do it?

SPEAKER_05 1:12:09

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:10

What are you waiting for? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay. Self-forgiveness. Client says, I know everyone says I should forgive myself. I just don't know how. What would your therapist say? What are you still holding yourself responsible for? If someone you loved made the same mistake, how would you respond to them? What does forgiving yourself actually mean to you? What part of you believes you still need to keep suffering?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:42

Those are all really good. I'm going with the third one. What does forgiving yourself actually mean to you?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:48

Yeah, same.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:50

Okay, well, guys, for our season finale. We're diving finale finale finale. Tune in. We're diving into a topic. Let me do stuff. Let me we're gonna be doing a lot of stuff next week. Alright, we're diving into a topic that sparked plenty of debate both in fiction and in real life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:14

We're talking about boundaries and limitations. Where do we draw the line? What makes a relationship healthy? And when do those lines start to blur?

SPEAKER_04 1:13:24

From morally gray love interests, whoop whoop, those little ones we love, to dark romance. We'll explore why we're drawn to stories that challenge our comfort zones and what they can reveal about us.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:38

We'll unpack the psychology behind boundaries, consent, power dynamics, and the difference between what captivates us on the page and what we'd want in real life.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:51

So join us for our season finale as we close out the season by asking one final question. Where do you draw the line? Yes. Oh my god, it's gonna be so good. I love it. Yeah. Alright, well, it's time to get have a few drinks and come back and get riled. We're gonna get wild and reckless and unhinged. Alright, that's it.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:19

That's it for this session. See you next week. We want you to be a part of this world with us. Send us your book recommendations, character obsessions, or topics you want us to cover.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:31

You can find us on Instagram and TikTok at once upon a session pod.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:38

Or email us at info at onceuponassessionpod.com if you want to share thoughts, suggestions, or just scream about a pot to the four of us. Yep, we're we're there. With us. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:52

So are we charging for this session?

SPEAKER_04 1:14:55

Motionally always. See you next session. Same couch, same chaos.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:04

Alright, what are we doing on podcast? Here, here we go. Welcome to One's Conversation. We're two high-ass motherfuckers talking about therapy and booksmanship.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:10

And that's the only intro we need this week. So, what's going on?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:14

No, we gotta start from the top.