Ghost Hunting with Heart: Technology, Mediumship, and The Devil’s Mark w/ Nick & Tessa Groff | Ghost City Podcast

When Nick and Tessa Groff walk into a room, the line between intuition and evidence gets razor thin. In this episode of the Ghost City Podcast, we explore how a veteran paranormal investigator and a lifelong medium built a partnership where technology and testimony collide in real time. From Nick’s early fascination with Area 51 and filmmaking to Tessa’s near-death experience and psychic abilities she once tried to suppress, their paths converge on a shared philosophy: treat every spirit like a person first. The result is ghost hunting that blends EVP sessions, controlled experimentation, and intuitive insight: cross-checked, replayable, and rooted in respect.

We dig into cases that still echo, including an EVP declaring “Mark is dead” inside a historic theater and a deeply personal reading delivered to a mayor about his late father’s reclaimed accent. The conversation moves beyond spectacle into bigger questions about energy, consciousness, boundaries, and why vulnerability can invite contact. Nick and Tessa also preview their upcoming documentary, The Devil’s Mark, which follows a trauma-aware investigation into attachment and possession without leaning on religious tropes. If you’re interested in paranormal investigation that balances heart, skepticism, and evidence, this episode offers a rare look at what happens when experience, empathy, and equipment all point to the same moment.

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Transcript

Opening

Tessa Groff 0:00

I had been able to see spirits since I was about four years old, very clearly.

Nick Groff 0:04

And she's always like, don't go over there because there's a maybe a negative spirit. And I'm going to it because I want to try to document that. On my audio device, it came through Mark is dead.

Tim Nealon 0:18

All right, guys, we're back with an episode, another episode of the Ghost City Podcast. And today I actually have some pretty special guests that I never thought we would have on this podcast. We are interviewing Nick and Tessa Graff today, which everybody here knows. I mean, Nick, you you are one of the pioneers of this whole paranormal genre. I don't, I know I might be slightly wrong, but what? You're probably like 20, 20 years into this now at this point.

Nick’s Origin Story And UFO Roots

College, Film, And Birth Of Investigations

Nick Groff 0:41

Yeah, about uh 25. So I got started when I was about 13 years old. Um, I went to Las Vegas with my parents. My sister's godparents were from there. They grew up in Las Vegas. So when I went there, I got introduced to Area 51 at a very young age. And they told me about Art Bell, they told me about you know UFOs, and then his father um actually helped build the bunkers right before he passed away. He was talking about building the bunkers at Area 51. So, and they talked about sitting on top of their roof in Las Vegas when they grew up and watching the atomic bomb being tested at the test site there. So imagine that being a little kid and seeing the mushroom cloud come up, and it's just crazy. Um, so I just dove into aliens, UFOs, extraterrestrials. I was that really weird kid at 13 where my dad would walk into my room in 1993 and say, What are you doing with a map? Remember those maps you would unfold? I'm not talking about Google maps, talking about you actually have them on paper. And I was trying to find Area 51, telling my dad, I'm going there someday. So I was one of those kids. I got into ghosts, stuff like that, uh, abductions later because I grew up next to um Nashua, New Hampshire, where my grandparents were from. And it was one of the first abduction cases, you know, from the 50s there that you probably know about in Nashua, New Hampshire. And um, I just got really involved into ghosts, all that stuff, deep thinking, space, time, travel, you know, and that's kind of how I kicked off my whole career until I went to Las Vegas in '99, uh, went to UNLV college, graduated in 2004 with film. And um, that's when I met a couple of guys while I was in college, and I called them up one day and said, Hey, do you want to go look for ghosts? I've been doing this since I was a little kid. I really kind of want to see for myself logically what else is out there. And the reason I did that is because I saw this really cool, it was almost like a documentary. Do you remember a show called Sightings that came out in 2000? I think it was 2004. It was on the Sally House, and it was an episode where they're filming with no cuts, the news reporters, and the guys getting scratched, right? So I saw that. Right. I actually remember that exact clip. Yeah. I saw that and I was like, holy crap, if this news reporter is documented, I don't see a cuts, I don't see any like fakery with the edit cuts or anything. I want to like really see can something scratch you, speak to you, you know, that type of stuff. So gathered some camera gear, you know, uh, got enough money to go out there and start shooting that stuff, and that's kind of how my career started. And here we are, I don't know, a couple decades later, still doing it.

Tim Nealon 3:15

So, so Tessa, how did you get wrapped up into the whole paranormal world? I I I know that you're known as, you know, a psychic medium. Um, and I only say that because I didn't remember if it was one or either or both, because I know they're kind of different. Um, but how how did you get wrapped up into all this uh craziness?

Tessa’s Mediumship And NDE

Tessa Groff 3:31

Well, you're gonna laugh because I actually never thought and I actually tried to avoid doing the paranormal like for a long time. Um, and I'll explain why. But I I was I believe I was born with my ability. I believe it was also passed down from my grandmother. My mom's also a medium. Um, and I had a near-death experience when I was four. So I do think that that brought me closer to the other side. So I think I was born with the ability, but I think that might have enhanced it. And, you know, I had been able to see spirits since I was about four years old very clearly. It never went away. Um, I was able to validate for my mom and my grandmother at a very young age, my uncle, who passed away before I was even born, uh, what he was wearing, like what he was buried in, nicknames that he had for people. So my mom knew that we had the same ability. And it was taboo back then. So I think once I came around, it gave her the ability to talk about it more and maybe open herself up more to that ability. Um, from there, I started doing readings at a young age, not realizing exactly what I was doing. And then that progressed. I tried to like go to school and do normal things. I tried to like I went, I got a master's degree. I did all of those things because um I never would have thought that I would be able to do what I'm doing today because I didn't fully understand my ability. Um, but it led me to be able to do readings for people all around the world. I am usually working with law enforcement and investigators to solve uh missing persons, cold cases, homicides. That I've been doing for quite a long time. And that was like my main focus. I was doing stage shows, like I was doing casino venue shows where I would do readings out into the audience. Um, but because I could see them so clearly, I really was not interested in like doing paranormal stuff because it freaks me out sometimes until I met this guy. So I I'm at fault. I had been approached by people to do TV shows for multiple different networks, even prior to meeting Nick. And I was always like, uh, I'm not an I don't think I'm a paranormal investigator. Like, I don't think I'm I am that person. I'm a medium, but I'm not a paranormal investigator. And um, so I think Nick actually tricked me into filming with him. I think that's how it worked because he's like, Do you want to come film? I said, No. And I think one day he called me up. He's like, Hey, can you like meet me at this place over here? And I just want your opinion. And I show up, and that's how I started doing paranormal television.

Nick Groff 6:10

But there's we were we were dating, so let's just like I tricked her and I I roped her in dating or something. It wasn't like a pickup thing. No, we were we were dating.

Tim Nealon 6:20

Yeah, that was gonna be my next question. I was like, Tessa, you really didn't see what he was doing there?

Nick Groff 6:23

I know, I know makes it sound like I was like some like trying to catch you in a dark, dark place. Yeah, it's like, hey, cutie, meet me at this hot and place. Come to this abandonmental asylum in the middle of the woods, I'll be there. Right.

Tim Nealon 6:39

So how how did you uh I mean today, you know, without you know, uh, you know, without any really other words to describe it, I mean, you guys have kind of become like this paranormal entertainment power couple. I mean, how how did you guys uh even meet? I'm sure there's a lot of people that might not because I don't like how did you guys kind of come together and bring your powers together like Voltron?

Tessa Groff 6:59

It's funny because I like I said, I was doing casino shows and big venue shows, doing readings, and then COVID hit, and so everybody created a podcast, and that's what I did as well. And um, a good friend of mine that I had known for years, Dan Class, who owns the Hinsdale house, I had called him up and I was like, Do you wanna come on my podcast? And he goes, Yeah. He goes, Do you want me to, do you want me to bring Nick? And I was like, Nick, who? He's like Nick Groff. I was like, uh, yeah, sure. I'm like, I don't know who that is, but you can bring him on my podcast. So like, let's be clear, I never watched Ghost Adventures. I didn't watch Paranormal Lockdown. Um and I think the first thing I said when I brought Nick on my podcast was, Oh, so you're Nick from Ghost Hunters.

Nick Groff 7:47

I was I was part of the tap screw all of a sudden. Yeah, exactly.

Tessa Groff 7:51

So and so like nobody corrected me. Super embarrassing looking back on it. Um so we actually met on a podcast, not thinking anything of it, but um, we just kind of clicked. We had a lot in common, and I'm pretty sure, like after the fact, I was like, I'm not gonna even bother with this guy at all because I feel like it would be weird and he's like a TV person, and so I'm not gonna reach out to him. And I think he wrote me, and you were like, Do you like rap music?

Meeting Online And Unexpected Chemistry

Nick Groff 8:20

That was my that I I had to because I did not want to date anyone at the time. I was like not interested in anything. I never knew anything about her, and then Dan obviously is like, Hey, uh, you know, would it be cool? Come on, and I was like, Yeah, sure, that's cool. Cause I was really good friends with Dan Klass. And I think so. To back up, like the podcast show, I spoke for an hour with her on her podcast show, but we come to find out my audio when I was talking the whole hour didn't work. Yeah, so we had a comeback on, and usually I'm just like, no, I you know, I'm so busy at the time, I'm just in a uh, you know, whatever.

Tessa Groff 8:54

But for some reason, I felt like you reached back out and well, it had never happened, like all of my podcasts went smoothly. The audio was always fine, it was just his. And so I wrote him and I was like, I and I was like, I'm really, really sorry. This is so stupid. And I was like, if you have time, if you want to come back on, that's fine. Like, if not, and he agreed to come back on, and that's when that's when we just clicked.

Nick Groff 9:17

I don't know. There was something about that organic just conversation like we were having like this, and just something resonated between the two of us, talking about our kids, talking about life and everything. And uh, we just had like a really good deep conversation. And I think after that, the both of us were like, Holy crap, why do I feel this way? Both of us were like that. And I think it was just uh a moment that was meant to be where you know, like two soulmates. I know it sounds corny, but two soulmates coming together and then finding each other in our lives, and that's kind of how it felt and how it really truly happened. And then we were just like, um He literally said he said, like, do you like rap music? I'm like, Do you like rap music? Because I was like, we ain't gonna be hanging out if that's not the first check. And it's just I I think music is such an important thing. Come to final for both of us, actually. Music is so important to both of us, and you know, all the previous people, whatever in my life, hated ra music. So I was like, screw this shit. I'm like, better like rap music. I'm not dealing with this type of thing. Like, hell yeah. I was actually like, Do you like Eminem? I asked her that. And she's like, I like that.

Tessa Groff 10:26

Like, I literally, he's like top on my playlist.

Nick Groff 10:29

Like, that was one, that was one checkbox, but we just hit it off from there.

Tim Nealon 10:32

Well, you know, I I met my my wife on a online dating thing, and uh, I think it was Hinge. Hinge is the one. And I'm I'm incredibly awkward. I'm a world-class introvert. I'm not, you know, I don't I don't really think I bring much to the table. So my first message to her, she had a picture on her profile where she was at a zoo, like one of those behind-the-scenes tour things. That's awesome. And she and she was petting a penguin. My literal first message to her was that's a nice penguin you have there. So like I feel like, you know, you're you might have beat me. Like yours was better. I mean, you know, nice penguin.

Nick Groff 11:04

So that's that's that's pretty cool, man.

Tim Nealon 11:06

And then and of course I tried to deny system her. If you're a fan of uh It's always sunny in Philadelphia, I was like, I gotta demonstrate, I gotta demonstrate my knowledge here. And I was like, I that's an emperor penguin. And I was like, Did you know that's an emperor penguin? And uh, you know, then the engagement part came quick. And I never I skipped the first then, neglect emotionally. I did not neglect her emotionally, thank God. But um, I at least started to Dennis her and I was like, nah, she's she's really nice. Um so Nick, have you ever have you ever considered that maybe she just deleted your audio on purpose just to get you to come back?

Partnering Up: Method And Validation

Nick Groff 11:37

Yeah, yeah. I think it was the ghosts, man. The ghosts were trying to align us in the afterworld for us to come together and be stronger as a unit, you know, in in life. I don't know. It's weird. People come and go in your lives for certain reasons. I believe strongly in that. I don't know how how you think about that, but I really believe that there's stepping stones in life to learn, evolve as a human being. And I really both strongly believe that's why we came together. I I was like, why do we have to wait X amount of years to finally meet? Jesus. That's like, why couldn't we meet like 20 something years ago? Yeah. But that's just how it goes, right?

Tim Nealon 12:11

Yeah, I say that all the time. I mean, I'm I'm 45 now. Um, well, it's a good age to be.

Nick Groff 12:17

I got I got your reference with Wu Tang Clan when you said it.

Tim Nealon 12:20

I grew up in the 80s and 90s. Yeah. And uh, you know, I I met my wife uh four years ago, and prior to that, it was just shit. I mean, it was like, you know, you you're bouncing from one shitty relationship to the next, you know. And they never start out that way, of course. But you know, uh you know, I I think it's just as simple as, you know, it you know, when I was younger, I always went to this one restaurant and I became good friends with the owner. They were older, and they always made the joke, like you really shouldn't get married until you're at least 40. And I was like, ah, whatever. Like, you know, like you know, you don't know what you're talking about. But I think there's some truth to that because you really don't know who you are, you know, uh even as individuals, until you you spend some time on this earth and trying to figure that all out. And uh you know, I don't know if that's it. I mean maybe ghosts. Um you know, I I I introduced my my wife into you know a little bit of ghost hunting, and and her mom is her mom passed away a couple years ago, and she's come through a couple of times, and she approves, which I that's you know more than I can say in my past relationships. I was like, well, it's unfortunate your mom's dead, but I finally found one that likes me, so you know. Um that's good. Um so so you guys come together and and you know, you guys have have not only been in a in a uh a relationship and married for a couple years now, but you guys are actively working together quite often.

Nick Groff 13:35

Yeah, and raising four boys. It's been wild.

Tessa Groff 13:40

But we've also realized that on investigations or on you know cases that we take together, um, there's a weird dynamic that happens where I'm picking up on something. And I feel like Nick has intuitive abilities that he probably always had, but maybe he's become more aware of. Uh, and we play off each other really well. It's almost like we both know if somebody or something's around and I could visually see and pick up on very specific things. And, you know, Nick frequently uses different equipment and things like that, and you'll find that we're constantly validating things in a way that I don't think has ever really happened before. So um maybe the spirits know too. Maybe the spirits like us. I don't know. Um, but I I've noticed just in our filming and in our cases that we've done, there's been people that are like, we nobody's ever picked up on that before, or nobody's ever figured this out before. And it seems to happen for us.

Nick Groff 14:37

Yeah, we had um, so we investigated a location called uh Riviera Theater in North Tanawanda, New York out here. And I had a good buddy of mine who uh just called the other day. He's never seen that episode, but he was the one that led us into the location, did the interview. His name's Joe. Um, he's part of the board there in town and everything. Really great guy.

Tessa Groff 14:55

Um and it is the coolest theater.

Nick Groff 14:57

Yeah.

Theater Case And Powerful Readings

Tessa Groff 14:58

Like I'm talking old school, something out of a movie. Haunted. Haunted. Yeah, yeah, it's really cool. Really gorgeous, like a gorgeous old theater phantom of the opera. I don't even know how to explain it. It's amazing.

Skeptics, Energy, And Theory Of Consciousness

Nick Groff 15:11

So we're investigating this location, and we don't sometimes realize some like we know the history, we dig, we do a ton of factual background check. I don't. Yeah, my cousin Justin and I, we do, and some of the stuff you just don't know anything. But what was cool about this location in this episode that we filmed for uh Death Walker series, season five. All of a sudden, Tessa says to Joe off camera, uh, because I didn't even know this because we were filming, she went off camera, she told him that um his brother is with him, right? That's what you said to him. Because this is what he just called me and told me this because I said, Hey, check out this episode. He's like, I almost started crying. I didn't know. I didn't, how would you guys know this? I didn't know. And he said, on my audio device, it came through, um, Mark is dead. It said, and very clearly, he's like, I heard that and I saw the words on the screen, but how would Tessa know? Because I haven't told anyone about my brother. And you said to him, I guess, because he just told me this, that you went up to him and said um that he didn't mean to pull the trigger on the gun. And come to find out, uh, I guess he um supposedly committed suicide, and there was a whole thing with him pulling the trigger or whatever. And I guess that was what was coming through. And there was suspicion that he didn't mean to do it, but he did it, or something like that. So Joe was really just like emotional about that whole episode. I mean, that's the type of powerful thing, and he said the coolest thing to me. He said, and I said, I look, Tessa does it to me all the time about stuff like she's like, Don't do this, do that. And I might not know it in the moment, and my ego tick kicks in, right? And then she's like, I told you like a month later. And it's it's seriously the truth. She she is not just because I love her and the soulmate and I'm passionate about her, but she's by far the best psychic meme I've ever met in my life. I've met a lot of people through my journey, a lot of psychics, a lot of frauds, a lot of like fakery. A lot of people just are mentalists, you know, who can read you and are really good at that. But then there's some true psychics that I've met, like, holy crap, how would you know that? She's she's one of them. And I'm telling you, it she's so spot. She does this to so many different people. Like um Joe said, he goes, you know, it's one thing for me to witness her doing that, like her ability, but there's something special about her that's powerful when she delivers these messages or delivers that information. When it's you personally that it happens to, I can't comprehend it. And I think that that's like the coolest thing about witnessing it from you know, over here, rather than every day, is it it is true, you know. It is true when you have something that nobody knows about and she reads you or she says something or delivers something. I think that's the coolest thing is it's this connection with that realm in ours, and there's something happening there. Um, the mayor, we had uh I had a great conversation with the mayor of Lewiston, New York, which is one of the most historical haunted towns in all of America. If you've never been, go to Lewiston, New York. It is haunted, everything there. The mayor, she did this to the mayor. We were filming at a couple of locations in Lewiston. You're gonna lose the next election. Oh no. I know. I literally I thought I was gonna be. We've never met her before. She walks in with a group of people. We're in this uh historical building because they gave us access to it. So they met us, they wanted to meet us. She comes out through the dark, Justin, my cousin, me are setting cameras up to film. She walks up and she goes, Um, your father was in the military, and she just delivers this stuff out of nowhere. And the mayor's face just dropped as like, Well, no, you want to know it.

Tessa Groff 18:57

Okay, but there's this so when we walked in, I'm jumping ahead. You didn't come in until afterwards, and my eyes were like this. I was like, Oh, F. I've seen her cry. I was like, I think we're in big trouble. She's crying. I'm like, I don't know what to do. But she was sitting on a bench and behind her there was a shelf. And on this shelf, and it was literally in an old school that they turned into kind of like an arts and recreation place, but very haunted. And so there's a shelf, and on the shelf above her, there was pictures and like a box and little like knickknacks up there. And there was a photo of a gentleman in the Navy, and then there was this little box and like a flag. And so it had to do with like a veterans tribute of some sort. And so I said to the mayor, I said, I go, you're sitting under this picture, but there's a guy sitting next to you who's dressed exactly like this gentleman here who would be in the Navy. I'm like, he's got this accent. I'm like, it's very hard to hear, but he wants you to know he got his accent back. And so I'm like, the way he's talking, it's kind of hard for me to comprehend what he's saying, but he said this, this, this, and this. Next thing you know, she's crying. Come to find out, it's her father who was in the Navy. He came from, I believe, Scotland.

Nick Groff 20:13

Yeah, I think so.

Tessa Groff 20:14

But when he came to America after he was in the war, he tried to talk without an accent. So by the time he passed away, he kind of like lost the accent. And but he was so proud of his, you know, um, heritage and things like that. He wanted her to know I now have my accent back. And so she just was bawling. And I thought for sure we were like gonna get kicked out, like we're in trouble, and come to find out now she loves us.

Nick Groff 20:40

And um she wants to have a she wants to have Tess over with all the ladies over there in Lewiston and do a whole reading. Um, but she she's amazing. I mean, we actually love her. She's all she's been great to us with that location.

Ethics Of Mediumship And Etiquette

Tessa Groff 20:54

But that happens, so like our I guess our intention going into a location is we're we're gonna film and we're gonna look at the hauntings in this location. But what people don't realize is there's you know, people that are in charge of the building and people who let us into the building, and those people might have loved ones that they've lost. And I'm not just picking up on the people or the spirits within the location, I'm also picking up on um people's loved ones too. So you'll see a lot in our episodes where I'm touching on that stuff as well. So I find it to be interesting.

Nick Groff 21:25

When we go into locations, it's great because I can document with the evidence, and you know, you're doing it from your psychic abilities, and I'm validating with our equipment, and she's always like, Don't go over there because there's uh maybe a negative spirit, and I'm going to it because I want to try to document that. So it's this kind of interesting combination, you know. Plus, we're married and stuff for the throat, throat like, I'm like, no, I'm going in there. She's like, Don't do it. And I'm like, I got a document. That's why we're here. So she sees them, I'm documenting, but I think it's cool when we validate. So when we're validating, maybe a voice comes through or one of our devices. Shuts or something gets triggered. At the same time, she's picking up on that. And to me, that's validation of the unexplainable when you can't explain it, obviously. So I think that's why it works really good between myself, her, and also when our cousin comes along, when he's filming behind the camera, it's just it's such a good dynamics. And um, I've learned we've had like probably some of the best evidence ever, you know, documented.

Tim Nealon 22:24

Well, I think the other thing it does, you know, especially, you know, in a world where, you know, I think it's like roughly like 50% of people believe in ghosts or something like that, which means there's still another 50% that that doesn't. You know, what when you're able to validate things like that, like, hey, I am, you know, I'm Nick and I approach it this way, like it might be easy for a skeptic just to discount what you're saying individually. And same thing for you, Tessa. But if you guys are individually coming to the same conclusions, that makes it a lot harder for somebody to to argue with the results. Like you might not be able to prove that they're real or or or or in the mind of that skeptic, but you're showing like, wait, there really is something going on here. Because how are two people working individually coming up with the same conclusions about something we can't see? You know, we can't, you know, it it it definitely lends a lot more credibility than just somebody going into a haunted location saying, Hey, there's a ghost here. You know what I mean?

Why Keep Going: Purpose And Passion

Nick Groff 23:14

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, I think skepticism too. I I mean, I look at I have skeptic friends and stuff, and we have great conversations. Skepsis kind of like believe in the perspective one person told me where when you die, that's it. That's this is it, this is one life, that's it. But you're leaving behind that energy, that positive energy or that negative energy, that's it. And that's your legacy behind. So just be a good person. I'm like, all right, cool, I get that, but energy can't be destroyed. So, where does the energy in the body? We all die every second we're passing away as we're talking right now. So this body dies, but the energy that we're producing, kinetic energy and whatever electrical energy that we have, it releases into this environment, but it also evolves, manifests, transforms, lingers. And the consciousness, where's the information of the conscience consciousness go? Is it you know attached to that energy? And that's what I strongly believe half of the time we're we're communicating with at these locations, with what we claim to be spirits. Um, there's there's a whole rabbit hole of theories we could go down, but I mean, skeptics want to be scientists want to confine something to one room and analyze that specific thing, like the ghost particle, right? So they have all those cameras, they're analyzing to try to discover the ghost particle and capture it. Took them how many years to do that with technology? I mean, there's so many spectrums we can't see. There's so many different like species in this world we still haven't discovered in the ocean. We were just talking about this the other day, space, you know, the void into space and other earths and whatever. So big thing.

Tessa Groff 24:49

Yeah, I I was gonna say there's no tick, like as a medium, you know, you you get a ton of skepticism, right? And and so, and for good reasons though, too, because there's a lot of people out there that claim to be a medium or have abilities. And, you know, there's things like cold reading and and all of that. And so I believe there's a huge difference between what I do and uh what some people would define as like a psychic or, you know, because I don't claim to be psychic necessarily. I know that the term is like psychic medium, but truly I kind of lean toward medium because I see ghosts. I don't necessarily tell the future. Um, my goal's never really to change someone's perspective. Like I don't look to take a skeptic and say, oh, after talking to Tessa, now I believe in ghosts, but I have witnessed many times where during a show or during a reading or whatever, people have sat in a show, had absolutely no intention of getting a reading, didn't believe one damn thing that I, you know, have done in the past, but the reading was directed to them. And there were things that I would never have been able to know about a loved one who's passed or about their life. And they've come up to me afterwards and said, you know, I've never believed in this stuff, but there would be no way that you would know that. You know, so I think that a lot of people struggle with um like their upbringing and and different religions uh and being confined into a box and different beliefs and things. And I'm not knocking anybody's religion because you're entitled to believe what you believe. But what I also find fascinating is that I've read people of literally all different religions, all different ethnicities, backgrounds, cultures. And I feel like at some point in everybody's life, you've had an experience or a dream or something that you can't necessarily explain. And so there is a belief that kind of ties everybody together, regardless, you know. So I find that's to me amazing.

Filmmaking, Evolution, And TV Realities

Tim Nealon 26:40

Yeah, the whole the whole psychic medium thing, it's always intrigued me because, you know, I have not met nearly as many psychic mediums as you guys have, for sure. Um, but back in the day when Ghost City used to hold these ghost hunts all over the country and people would come, and we we would get people who would show up and, you know, I'm a psychic, I'm a medium. Uh I mean I mean, they don't even remember me at this point, so I don't feel bad saying it. I mean, most of them you could tell right off the bat, like, this person's full of shit. Um, like I feel like they just do it for attention because they would always gather a crowd before him right as they were getting ready to do it, too. But there was one woman I met in Florida. We were doing an investigation at the St. Augustine Lighthouse, and without telling the whole story, essentially what she did without knowing it was tell me about my father who had passed away when I was very young, and described him as a guardian angel of sorts, except for um she was just describing him as a long-haired, blonde, long blonde-haired individual, but she couldn't really see the details of the face because there was a light behind him. Now, about two weeks before, I was in a place called Old South Pittsburgh Hospital in Tennessee and ran into something that was was pretty negative, and then I started having really bad stuff happen at my house. She even called that out. She was like, Hey, I just want to let you know about two weeks ago you ran into and I'm totally paraphrasing this conversation, but you know, you ran into something that um, you know, if you let it, it'll kill you. And I at first I kind of rolled my eyes, like, you know, whatever. Um, but she said, I want to let you know that that that you do have somebody looking over you. She described this person, she thought it was a woman, you know, long blonde hair and everything, light behind him. Um skip a little bit later into the night. We were in the basement of the lightkeeper's house in the St. Augustine Lighthouse, and there wasn't a lot going on. And as the leader of that group, I felt the need to try to, you know, let's try to stir something up. You know, everybody's getting a little bored. I'm sure you guys know how that goes. And I I just said, um, hey, you know, this woman over here whose name I can't remember mentioned that they're I have a guardian angel or a spirit or somebody who's looking out for me and they're helping keep me safe. If you're here, can you tell me your name? And everybody in the room is a completely disembodied voice, they just echoed throughout the room, David. Well, that was my dad's name, David. And then I started putting the pieces together and I was like, holy shit, I actually think this woman might like have some of these gifts or some of these abilities. I but she's the only one I ever met. But it was it in that moment, even though it was one person and one experience, it really had an impact on me, you know, because then you then it's like, is my dad looking over me? I I don't know. Like it but it but it gets you thinking and you become a little emotional. So um yeah, it I I would love to to learn more about the the whole I would like to meet more mediums or or psychics that actually know what the hell they're doing because um there there's a lot that don't, in my opinion.

Tessa Groff 29:21

Yeah. Well it's true, it's true because I think that um I I think that for a long time when mediumship and all that was pretty taboo and nobody really talked about it, um, you know, everybody kept it toned down. And then there's people like Sylvia Brown who came along. And um, you know, not to say that maybe that woman didn't have some ability, but um, there was also some things that kind of I feel like made a mockery of it. And then, you know, more and more people started coming out, and then it just became a thing like on TV. And um, and then I think everybody wanted to be a medium. Everybody then had psychic abilities and mediumship, and it just became like this sensationalized thing. Um, most people who have mediumship abilities, we really try to stay as quiet about it and stuff as possible. Like you see on TV a lot where um you walk up to somebody in public and you just start talking about their dead person. Um, and it really doesn't happen like that. That there's an etiquette behind that, you know what I mean? But but I do have to say that it has happened to us multiple times. You just have to go like obviously there's producing and shows and stuff like that. So um, but you but in reality, it does happen. You just have to have more of an etiquette with it where I've I've walked up to people and said, or we're in a restaurant or whatever, and I'm like, oh man, that person's mother is standing right there and they want to talk. But like, I'm not walking up to this person in a restaurant, they're gonna think I'm crazy or call the police on me, or who knows, you know, because like you said, 50% of people don't believe in it. So how do I know that walking up to that person that they believe in it and they're open to it and and stuff like that?

Nick Groff 30:58

Yeah, so I'll walk up and say, Hey, my wife. We were at another, she's talking, she's talking about we're at this uh location called the Bansheets, the Irish pub in um in Buffalo, New York. And the whole time we're eating and stuff, she's like, she's staring off to this, like uh they these two women uh at the bar, they're talking away and whatever. And I'm like, what's up? And I always know when she gets that like stare and she's like, I need to tell them, I need to tell them they won't shut up, they won't stop. Like, she'll get it where they just won't stop talking, the spirits won't stop talking to them unless she tells them. And then eventually I was like, all right, I'll go over, you know, and I said, Hey, and they said they were from Massachusetts. So I'm originally from out in New Hampshire and I I hit it off with them. Then you came up and you're like, I have to tell you I'm sorry, are you guys open to it? And you asked, uh, complete strangers, and you absolutely like nailed everything about their life. They were just there, I forget the whole story. They were just there uh from Massachusetts visiting. They were sisters and just lost somebody.

Tessa Groff 31:58

I think they lost a sister and they were visiting for a funeral of the person that came through, if I remember correctly. I think that's what it was.

Nick Groff 32:06

And it's on YouTube. We yeah, a la blue, we filmed it randomly.

Tessa Groff 32:10

Yeah, but they didn't call the police on me, they were totally open. So, like that one was a win.

Tim Nealon 32:14

Yeah, they were crying. Anytime you have the police not called on you, that's a that's sort of a win. Yeah, yeah, it was. Just in life in general. Yeah, yeah, like you know, that that brings me to you know the work that you guys have uh been been working on. I mean, you know, Nick, like earlier in our conversation, you said you've been doing this, you know, a quarter of a century. And you know, one of the things I found in people that you know dedicate their life to something, especially something like this, it's there's always a reason, and it's not because of the reasons that most people assume. Like a lot of people assume, like, you know, even me, like on a much smaller scale. You know, we're a huge tour company, but you know, people, oh, they're they're doing it for the money, you know, they they're doing it for the attention. Um and don't get me wrong, I I love money very, very much. Um, attention, not so much, but you know, for me, it's always been been something else. And I'm willing to bet that it's been the same thing for you. You know, probably some question that hasn't been answered, like something that just nags at you and won't won't let you go. And that's why you've been doing it for a quarter of a century.

The Devil’s Mark: Story And Stakes

Nick Groff 33:14

A hundred percent. I every time I try to be like, all right, I'm not like gonna do the paramour or this anymore or this show. I for a while I was doing uh I was on American Ninja Warrior for like a thing. I did um I was doing Spartan Beast Race. I teamed up with uh Mike Couch, who did Lost Limbs Foundation. I was raising money for Lost Limbs. Uh, we are conquering mountains together. Um, you know, I carried him on my back up a mountain with that and like just brutal stuff because I thought, oh, I'm gonna do like unlimited journey, I'm gonna do this and that. And every single time the paranormal just dragged me back in. It's it's almost like your destination in life sometimes. Like you, your path is this way, and you try to try to stare off of it, and the universe has a way of kicking your ass back onto it. So it's just been my whole life since a childhood. The paranormal, the supernatural, cryptids, anything across the board of weirdness has always been in my life from a very early age. I mean, I also had a near-death experience when I was eight years old. I fell from a tree and hit a cyclone fence and ripped open my whole arm, almost died. Mom saved my life. And I remember like people staring down at me, and there was no one there, just my mom. And I had this like out-of-body experience. And ever since then, my mom said I would be talking like in the corner of my room, staring up this the ceiling to angels and stuff like that. And she said it would freak her out. And would she like peek in my door and be like, why is he in the corner talking up to the ceiling? So just stuff like that throughout my life. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, I was definitely crazy in that realm.

Tim Nealon 34:46

You know, what's funny is you know, you're the first person I've talked to, you know, and and Tessa mentioned earlier about the whole near-death experience thing. I I really don't talk to a lot of people. Uh, you know, I like said world-class introvert here. Um, but I had something similar when I was about three or four years old. I I I had a very traumatic experience where uh actually it's kind of funny now. Um, do you guys remember those old nail mailboxes that kind of had like the metal hooks on the bottom, the two metal hooks where you would put the newspaper in? I was about three or four years old and I decided to play mailman. And I used my tricycle to try to put mail in the mailbox, but the tricycle slid out from underneath me. And one of those hooks actually went up through the bottom of my mouth and actually threw my tongue and embedded itself uh, you know, essentially in the base of my skull in the top of my mouth, and I hung there for God only knows how long until somebody found me, got me down, took me to a hospital. Um, and it and and funny enough, it was it was about that time, even as a little kid, like I started to notice these ghosts and and all that kind of stuff. So I don't know that that's related, but I had another one when I was older. I actually drowned. Um, I was a whitewater rafting guide in Pennsylvania, uh, which is where I'm from. And uh yeah, I I literally drowned. I I passed out, I wasn't breathing. I I came to on my own and you know, threw up all the water, but that was probably in my uh you know, early 20s. So it's been quite a while. But I remember it was almost like like that made it worse, I guess you could say, or or maybe better is the right word. I don't know. But I you start noticing these these things more and more and more, you know, these these ghosts, these spirits and everything. And that's that's one of the things that kept pulling me, pulled me back into big time. And it's been 25 years or so, and you know, I've never really looked back. So I d there might be a correlation between this, you know, you I mean you're dead. So maybe you know, coming back, you retain some kind of connection. I think so.

Possession, Trauma, And Non-Religious Help

Tessa Groff 36:38

I think so. Yeah, I do believe. We did a whole live show. Uh it was called Live with the Other Side, and what what we focused on was near-death experiences because both of us both of us have had near-death experiences, and we brought in a couple people who have, you know, passed away literally for a certain amount of time and come back out of that. We also brought in a doctor who used to be an oncologist. So he was an oncologist for years, and through his work, he realized that a lot of his patients would have these experiences. And everybody was saying kind of the same thing across the board of what they would experience when they came back from possibly almost dying. So he started researching it. And I think he studied over like 5,000 cases or something along those lines. So we brought collectively like people who have had experiences, this doctor, and we talked about it and it was fascinating. Like we learned a lot. And what you find is that most of these people, like when you have a near-death experience, your body's compromised. You're now experiencing what is referred to as the other side. And I think once you touch that space in whatever way, you bring a piece of it back with you. And I really don't know how else to explain it, but you now have like this connection that you didn't have before. And I think for everybody, we experience it differently. Like some people might have more dreams. They might see people a lot in dreams or premonitions, and other people quite literally see spirit directly in front of them. Um, and so I do think that that brush with the other side, it kind of creates a connection or you bring a piece back with you. And I also think that that's what leads people into the paranormal and into wanting, you know, answers and to understand more. Uh, I think that with Nick as well, like we had that conversation back when we met. And I said, you know, it seems like you always had an interest, but after that happened, you know, it really makes people question things and and want to know more. So I do think everybody has that um that similarity.

Tim Nealon 38:36

Yeah, I think that's I also think to a small degree, it's like once you have that connection, it's not just a matter of you not letting it go, you know, if that's kind of how you want to look at it. But I feel like there's there's also like a side of it that doesn't let you go. Um, you know, there there's been, you know, I I am not a medium at all. I am not a psychic, you know. Um I'm probably a fairly slightly above average uh paranormal investigator myself, but I mean I'm nothing to write home about. Um but you know, over the years, there's been a lot of really weird things that have happened to me that I really don't have an explanation for because I'm not asking for any of it. Um, like for example, one of the things that I've been dealing with lately, I had a very uh I don't want to get dramatic about it, but I had a minor heart operation a couple months ago. Doing fine. I'm gonna be doing fine for a while. But every since then, I I would say at least three quarters of nights when I'm laying in bed, as I start to fall asleep, I start to have like these visions and stuff and things talking to me, which on their own, you could just write that off a hundred different ways. But there are times where it's so vivid where I'm like, fuck this. Like, you know, so I'll pull out a voice recorder and put on my headphones. And the EVPs that I'm getting are a continuation of what was happening in my head as I was trying to fall asleep, and that's where it starts to get weird. I'm like, wait a minute, this is literally we're having the same conversation that was in my head as I was trying to fall asleep on this voice recorder very clearly. And like I said, I'm not asking for it, I'm not going out of my way to try to um have that connection with whatever that is. It's it's almost like it seeks me out from time to time. And I have no idea how to explain that.

Vulnerability, Sleep, And Capturing Evidence

Tessa Groff 40:08

Yeah. Well, you know, spirit, uh, how do I explain this? I always refer to people who have had near-death experiences or somebody with an ability like mine as a lighthouse in the dark to spirit. So um, whether you're a medium or not, you don't have to be a medium to be able to see or pick up or hear spirit. But if you have some sense of an ability in you or you've had a brush with death at some point in your life, you become a lighthouse in the dark to spirit and they know that they can somehow get to you. Like they know that you can either hear them, feel them, see them. And so that makes them come to you. So, like as a kid, um, you know, there was a point in time where they were coming to me at night specifically so much that I just couldn't sleep. I was having, you know, I could hear them, I could see them, I could feel them, and it became so overwhelming. Um, and so that's why I think it's cool now, though, that we have kids and we're able to kind of work with them and help them through what their experiences experiencing as well, because we didn't necessarily have that help growing up. Um, but it's interesting because you're saying like sometimes you can't avoid it. They're coming to you, and it's because they know that you can sense them or feel them. And maybe there's a message that they want to get across, or maybe they just want to literally say hi. You know, so that's why I always um talked about boundaries and things, especially when investigating and even when you're trying to go to sleep, like to put a boundary up for yourself to where you're like, I'm trying to sleep, you got to chill for a minute. I'll talk to you when I wake up, but like let me sleep. So I I do think boundaries are very important as well.

Tim Nealon 41:37

I mean, for you guys, is that, you know, the the the kind of going back to my question earlier, you know, like especially you, Nick, 25 years later, you know, some unanswered question, some anything, you know, something that's keep pulling you back in. Like, do you do you think that the spirits, like I don't know how to say this without sounding utterly stupid, but do you think it's the spirits pulling you back in, or is it something you're still missing that you're trying to like fill some void without sounding like some therapist or something?

Trans-Allegheny, OSPH, And Fear

Nick Groff 42:05

But is it that's a great question? Yeah, I think um sometimes a part of it is probably universal pull. Um, energetically, we're all kind of like tethered with this energy string, you know, where you're supposed to go in life. I think that's a part of it. It's also a conscious thing, um, decisions, choices, stuff you make in life. But I do believe strongly as a person, I you have to have a passion for what you do in life. And if you don't have a passion with what you're going after, your beliefs that you're going after, I always say live through your passion first rather than all right, I just have to sell for a nine to five job or I have to do this. I've done all sorts of jobs, you know, as younger in whatever construction to the I I worked at a car wash for one point. A lot of people don't probably know a new LB. I did too, actually. Yeah, there you go. Yeah. I I quit like on like, I don't know, whatever day. And it's just like I've done all sorts of stuff. I was a PA on a uh a reality show at one point, like back in college on that show Inked, you know, the tattoo show. Uh I've done all sorts of stuff. And I think that you have to go after what you really truly love to do, and the money and all that stuff will come second, always. And you just have to put your head into this is what I believe, this is what I'm gonna accomplish in life, and everything else will kind of fall. And when you accomplish that, you know, keep setting yourself up for the next thing that you're gonna go after, um, or else life just becomes kind of flat and dull, and also you you idle, you know, you get in stuck in this rut, and then all that other stuff kind of sinks in as time goes by. And then you you get to a point where like, man, I regret not doing this or that at the edge of life or whatever, and get into a certain age. So I think for me, I've always loved filmmaking. Period. I'm a film fanatic. Like I at a young age, I Loved horror films. I would be that weird kid riding my little BMX bike down to the video store and renting VHS tapes. I would rent horror movies. But like when I was 12, I rented like I was at the clerk and I'm like, you know, trying to buy the rental. And he's like, Does your mom know you're watching this? And I'm like, I look around, I'm like, oh yeah, that's my mom over there in the back with some random ladies. Like he looks at me, he's like, all right, whatever. And he like, but my mom made me return the VHS tape. It was Dr. Giggles. Remember that movie? So I was watching that at home when she came home. She's like, What are you watching? But that was, I I love, you know, films. Um, so when I went to college, I just I started doing a lot of that. I made my first film when I was 24 called Malevolence. And then after that, I made Ghost Adventures. And I didn't even know what a documentary was. Honestly, I just knew I wanted to go off and document ghosts, period. Or anything weird, what's unexplainable. Let's go experience it. And I didn't even know the dynamics, I didn't even know how it operated. That's how I learned about a narrative. That's how I learned I self-absorbed and self-taught. Um, I did all the editing, everything, shooting, everything you saw. And I just learned to do all that stuff. And as you grow, you just you you get better at it. You start producing stuff, you start doing other stuff. And that's kind of what I've done throughout my career. Is always I've always gone after what I believe in and what's the next thing that's gonna push me. All right, I did Ghost Adventures. What's next? Oh, I'm gonna live at the location. It actually was gonna be me living at a location for a month that turned into 72 hours because it was like, how are we gonna condense that to an hour for TV? So then it's that for you know a couple of years, and then it's Death Walker. All right, I'm sick of the networks right now, so now I'm gonna go self-produce. So now I did death, I did 80 episodes of Deathwalker, um, 80 locations. So then we did that for the last couple of years, and now um it's always like, what are we gonna push ourselves to do and be better, evolve, take what we've learned and not stay stagnant. I I hate a lot of these, like um, you know, and I'll use Ghost French as an example because I I co-created that, you know, it's so stagnant. It seems like I if I turned it on right now, I feel like I'm watching it back in 2010 again. It's like, what the hell? Evolve a little bit here. I I don't watch it at all, but I mean, the thing is, is back then it was like three dudes raw, uncut, what you see is what you get. Like that was badass, right? Like that was like fresh and it feel it feel genuine.

Tim Nealon 46:27

Well, it's it's not I mean it is that, but it's it's it's I mean, you're absolutely right. Like, I remember the first- Well, not anymore. Like, yeah, not even more.

Nick Groff 46:34

I have nothing to do with it, but it's ridiculous.

Tim Nealon 46:36

I mean, uh, you know, I remember when I first watched the the documentary you guys put together. I mean, that that that scene in the in the basement where that brick and those boards started flying, like, holy fuck. Like that was like like you know, uh I just and I wasn't even there, but just to see that on the screen and you know, your guys' reaction to that. I mean, by the way, I would have reacted the same fucking way, so I'm not judging. Um, but like, you know, just to see that compared to what it is now, it's it, and I'm not knocking anybody, you know, I don't want to piss anybody off. Maybe I really don't care, but um, you know, like it's it's just it's it's not it is absolutely not the same.

Respect For Spirits And Aftercare

Nick Groff 47:11

Yeah, and and and like I said, I have nothing to do with it now. I haven't since 2014. Um, but my point in all of it is when I did ghost events, when I did the original thing, when it was not ghost friends, just going off and shooting mini DV, like on mini DV tapes, I had a chunk of 40 mini DV tapes. I'm like, it's just a lump of mud. And how are you gonna show people like what's going on? And when I started going through the raw evidence, that's when I started seeing things besides that moment. Obviously, we saw it in the moment, but like there's other things in that that I had no clue of, like the shadow figure in the washo club behind me, just stuff like that. So I think my my point in all this is you have to keep evolving. You know, now there's a hundred billion paranormal shows on YouTube across like every platform uh ever since then. You know, there's ghost hunters before that, there was most haunted. Before that, there was the holzers, you know, like before that, there was there were so many different people. There's Anne Lorraine Warren. I mean, there's so many people from the 80s, 90s, so on, generational stuff, even going back to the 1800s, you know, with um the spirit board was actually uh a form of communication. It was like, hey, let's get together and have some tea together and talk about like gossip in talent and communicate with grandma and stuff. That was okay. Now it's taboo. It's like, oh my god, don't use the spare board, don't touch the spare board because it's negative, you know.

Tim Nealon 48:34

Everything's negative.

Nick Groff 48:36

Yeah, everything's everything's a demon. Everything's a demon. The world's gonna end. Where did that come from?

Tim Nealon 48:42

Uh oh wait. Um, anyways, well, all this stuff, you know, the the idea that you've been doing this so long, and and now you have, you know, Tessa, you know, and you know, why before we started start recording, I referred to you guys as like the hardest working couple in the paranormal field right now because it's like I said, it seems like you guys are everywhere. Like all these things considered, you know, everything you just talked about with the paranormal field and the entertainment aspect of it, you know, what keeps pulling you guys back in? How does that how does that not force you or how how what influence does that have on the projects that you do next?

Nick Groff 49:16

I keep thinking. I think it's just a matter of growing. Um, now with us together, I think it's stronger and more powerful because we've figured out our our kind of like dynamics.

Home Hauntings And The Button Factory Boy

Tessa Groff 49:29

Yeah, and I think also, you know, people as a couple, especially. So I have my mediumship stuff. He is intuitive. You love the paranormal, things like that. We live it every single day. So aside from what you see on TV, there's like a whole other world. And and that's why I think we're excited about the reality show that we've been working on, because it's going to show you morning to night what really goes on off camera, typically from what you you always see. You know, the paranormal doesn't stop or start just because we're on camera. I'm usually picking up on something or I'm working on a criminal case, or our kids are seeing something. We, the house that we live in has spirits. And so even if we're not on camera, like there's something going on in the house. Um, and so I think it's interesting because we we literally live it. Now, is that because I'm a medium and he's also had a near-death experience? And like we've talked about, they seek us out. You know, it could be that. Um, but I think it's interesting that from the time we wake up till the time we go to sleep with the kids, with everything that we're doing, like it's literally our life. So um that's why I think we're excited about the reality series. Um, that's definitely why I think we we are turning that way so that we could show people everything and what like the paranormal is really like, you know, and not just the typical there's a demon everywhere. Um, there's more to it. There's a lighter side to the paranormal, there's a dark, it's darker side to the paranormal. So um hopefully we could showcase that in a really cool way that's never been done before. Um, and then like we you had mentioned, we were working on this documentary, The Devil's Mark. Um, the way that came about is kind of interesting because we were literally doing an investigation. Um, we had no idea who these guys were prior to meeting them. They invited us out, we did an investigation with them. And halfway through the investigation, he I got handed a book that he had written about his life. And I started kind of flipping through it. And between my intuition and just my common sense, I looked at him and I'm just like, why isn't this what we're filming? Like, why is nobody talking about this? We're we're looking for ghosts, we're looking for things, and you just handed me this. And this right here is like the craziest story I've ever heard in my life. And I think we need to talk about this and we need to show people this. And that's really how it started.

Tim Nealon 51:51

With the name, the devil's mark. It sounds like, you know, and I know you know, we before we were talking, we don't want to give away too much, but it sounds like maybe this documentary might focus on more of that darker side of the paranormal that you were referring to.

Nick Groff 52:02

Yeah, so it it's interesting. So uh two twin brothers that we met, like Tessa just described, uh, through a mutual friend um who called us up and connected us with them uh to help them out on an investigation uh at Old College Hill. Um and it was um amazing investigation. Uh that they're shooting a whole series uh called The Twins Haunting. And uh they have a whole series coming out. And like Tessa said, you know, someone else told me about the book when we were there. I didn't make anything of it. Honestly, I was like, oh, that's cool. I get it all the time. Like, here, make my thing, this and that. Uh, they did not come across like that at all, just to clarify, it was a mutual person who said that. And then Tessa.

Tessa Groff 52:45

I literally at like three in the morning, once we were done filming, I come storming out and I got the book in my hand, and I'm like, why are we filming this when this is what needs to be talked about? I'm like, what is this? We need to talk about this.

Nick Groff 52:57

And going back to what I was talking about in the beginning of not just listening to my wife, but listening to the intuitive sense. No, and I'm serious because um I was so determined, like, we're good, we're we were working on something else. I was, I forget, my head was in something else about like filming something else. I forget what project. And she's like, No, no, that's not the one. This is the one. And I was talking about filming a new document and filming something new for the last two years. If you know our conversations off-camera and stuff at home, I've been wanting to pick on another document or another film. She's like, that's not the one until this moment. And she's like, This is the one. It's almost like I'm at the starting line, and she's like, All right, go. That's what it felt like. I and and I didn't I understood it, but I really didn't understand at first. So what I did is I we got home. Um, we broke down his book. Um, my cousin Tessa broke it down for me, and then I started diving into it and I dissected the crap out of it. And it was missing so many pieces, to be honest with you. So I started having these deep conversations every week.

Time Slips, Dimensions, And Children’s Sight

Tessa Groff 54:02

Well, that, and I was intuitively picking up on things from the book that maybe he didn't say. Yes, um, and I also think once I started reading this book, I I literally I think I only read like the prologue or like the opening part of it. I didn't even read the book. I just said mom did too. Yeah, I just said this needs to be talked about, but there's a there's an aspect of this story that I think a lot of people will relate to and have related to, and unfortunately have related to, because there's a lot of like um, there's a lot of things that people I think have gone through and questioned in their life and wondering if it could possibly be something else. And maybe they've gone through, you know, hard times at home and things like that. And so the story I think is very compelling for that reason, and also because it showcases the side of things that's not necessarily all religious. Like um it does have to do with the level of possession, yeah. Um, but it's not necessarily the kind that you would see on like the actors. The actors, like it's different. And so I think we're able to showcase the realities of um and the steps to possession and the way that it can affect somebody and the side effects of things that you might not see. Um, so there's a lot to it, and I think a lot of people will relate to it and find it really, really interesting.

Nick Groff 55:22

Yeah, it's it's such a strange way how it came about, but honestly, it was meant to be. And I just had a conversation with his name is Joel. Joel and Scar, the two twins, uh, Cling and Smith. Uh, great guys. You ever talk to them? You should have them on the show because they go deep into different theories, and you would love having a conversation with them. But like I said, I had a monthly conversation with Joel, uh, the one individual where it's based on his true life. This is a this is a complete true story from ages six, both the twins growing up in a haunted house. But what Tessa was explaining too, it what drove me into taking on this documentary and directing it and usy peeing it and bringing it to life was it's such a powerful story. It's not your cliche paranormal, um, the conjuring movie or paranormal activity or the it's just straight paranormal movie with the jump scares. This is a story that has humanistic elements, vulnerability. They start from age six. We take them all the way to uh age 35 in life. We go through the whole backstory. Um it's such a uh come somewhat of a sad story in the beginning with the turmoil, a dysfunctional family. Um, what they went through as kids is is kind of horrible from physical to mental abuse, stuff like that in a household that was broken. Um, and then the paranormal aspect on top of it and the attachments and the negative attachment, and then the possession type of scenario. So it's super dark. And then and then we come halfway into the story and we're trying to analyze this without giving it too much away. It is one of the most powerful documentaries I've ever worked on, to be honest with you. Well, and it's pretty crazy.

Tessa Groff 57:00

We took it on not just to like exploit the story necessarily, but more so also because it was an opportunity for us to jump in and give some form of um answers, validation, and maybe some help to Joel and to the situation because it it was still happening. So the book was about it, but like what what I realized is this thing is still occurring. So we took the opportunity to tell the story, but then also provide some help to them and to be able to hopefully get rid of this thing in a non like religious way, like not the typical exorcism, not the typical, you know, thing that you would see on TV. Yeah. Um, so it I think it's gonna be Yeah, it's deep.

Nick Groff 57:39

You gotta you can come to the premiere, we'd love to have you. Uh, May 23rd, uh premiering at the haunted Virgia Theater in North Town, New York. We'll put you on the list if you want to come. Um, spread the word because it's a huge theater, it's awesome. Um, we're really excited about it. I think that's that's my passion right there when you ask me what drives me. Stuff like that, telling stories, telling something from the heart, knowing that we're also helping these individuals and knowing that it it you know, we're doing them justice too by telling their story. So they've been really happy with it. So I'm excited.

New Reality Series And Daily Life

Tim Nealon 58:12

Well, uh, you know, you know, you kind of answered the question about why you've been doing this so long. But I think that, you know, what you're saying though shows why people are so interested in what you're doing after 25 years. And you know, now with you know, Tesla on board, you know, the there's too much shit out there. Um, way too much shit out there. And and I'm not kissing your butt at all. Like you've already come on the show. I don't need to kiss your butt anymore. Like I'm like, yeah, we got him on the show. Um, but genuinely, I you know, everything you've done, even you know, some of the decisions that you've made in in your career, and you're probably aware of the ones I might be referring to, everything you've done always kind of you always come across, and I'm sure you are, as a man of you know, honor and integrity, you know, and and everything that you're doing and and genuine. You know, it's it's you know, a and I think that's why, you know, as somebody who who is a was a fan of you know your work, still is a fan of your work. I think that's why I'm mostly interested in the stuff that you keep doing, because everything just feels like you're doing it for the right reason. And you know, the idea of like, yeah, we are gonna make a documentary about these guys, but we also want to help them, I think that speaks a lot to both of your character. And I think more people in the paranormal should start thinking about things that way instead of just how do I get more clicks? Because that stuff's fucking garbage. And you know, like it really is.

Tessa Groff 59:25

Well, and that's also why he's gotta get I was about to die.

Tim Nealon 59:30

I don't want to kick you off.

Nick Groff 59:32

You're choking me up. Oh, oh, yeah. Let me just grab water. Yeah, yeah. Sorry about that. I was um our son was uh our sick for like 24 hours, where he had like he woke up at like 3 30. Not not last night, but the day before. And uh he was sick from like 3 30 to 7. It sucked. And so my throat's been killing me.

Tim Nealon 59:56

Oh, I get it. My my wife, she's a dance instructor, she teaches little kids how to dance, you know, like ballet and all that kind of stuff. And she owns the studio, so she's always there.

Tessa Groff 1:00:05

Well, now I'm gonna have to come and and like just what she did. Because I've been a dancer since I was three. Oh, yeah. I was a competitive, yeah, competitive professional dancer my whole life. I was I at one point taught it. Um I was a gymnast, I did aerial arts, but like typically my passion is like dance and performing, and and that was always my my thing since I was three.

Tim Nealon 1:00:25

Well, if if you meet me, you'd meet her. We could we kind of actually the way that Nick was talking about your guys' relationship, like you know, the idea of like soulmates and like you know, after all this time, I finally met the person I was supposed to be with. That really resonated with me because that's exactly her name's Stephanie. That's exactly how I feel about her.

Nick Groff 1:00:40

Like awesome. Have you guys have you guys ever had like um like vivid past life like visions together? Like, have you ever seen or felt like you've had past lives or weird stuff like that knowing each other?

Courses, Events, Books, And Premieres

Tim Nealon 1:00:54

Not from knowing each other. Um I I've occasionally had those, but I always just chalk them up to just my brain being you know, short circuiting or something. The the one and it's gonna sound stupid. I I actually never ever I don't even know if my wife knows about this, but the one that I always have, it always feels like this is gonna sound really stupid, um but it felt like I was like a like a minor out west. Um like I I kept having these visions, like there's one that really resonates, like I keep having it over and over again where you know there's there's a tunnel and an opening, and it comes into the mountain or wherever I am, and it kind of turns and I goes down a little bit, and I'm down here and I'm looking up at the top and I see the silhouette of a man holding a rifle looking down on me. I keep having that vision over and over and over. And um you know, and and I've even seen, and once once again, that's gonna sound stupid, but it I like I've seen buildings in that town, whatever that town was, like you know, the old Wild West, you know, with the wooden plank sidewalks and stuff, those have and the funny thing is, those have only been happening the past couple years. Um, but but they're they're very vivid.

Nick Groff 1:02:02

Have you ever been to Virginia City, Nevada?

Tim Nealon 1:02:04

I have not.

Nick Groff 1:02:05

No. That that's literally what you're describing. And um, you you gotta check it out because I think what's weird is if you haven't, definitely go there. And maybe that's me picking up on something. But like um I used to have the same thing happen to me, and there's a place called the Washoe Club, and I always thought it was a miner from a past life there too. Virginia City, Nevada has like what you're describing, an exact replica of um where you go down, kind of like what you're saying, and you look down. Uh, that's in Virginia City, Nevada, or out in that area. There's a mine like that, and they have that in that town, the boardwalks and all that stuff.

A Personal Reading And Family Ties

Tim Nealon 1:02:43

I'm sorry, you can't tell because I'm like trying to look fancy today, but I have like little goosebumps. Um, I mean there's something weird about it. Like I said, I you know, I've been doing this this ghost hunting thing for a long time. I actually got my start at Gettysburg. Um I I grew up not far from Gettysburg, and what got me into ghosts originally was actually history. Like I really wasn't much of a ghost guy. I thought it was cool. I was a Bigfoot guy, and I still am, but like you know, I was a Bigfoot guy. And uh you know, one night we were at uh Devil's Den. I was at Devil's Den and I was talking to one of my buddies who's a park ranger there, and off to the right, there's the triangle field, and there were people with flashlights, the sun was going down, and I I thought I was gonna get to see people get busted. I thought they were relic hunters, and he's like, No, they're looking for ghosts. And I said, That's the stupidest shit I've ever heard of. And uh, you know, uh, but and you know, I was probably like, you know, 22, 23, something like that at the time, you know, maybe a little bit younger. But a couple times later, curiosity got the best of me. So I went to the Walmart there in Gettysburg and just bought one of those cheap old voice recorders and I went to the wheat field. And within minutes, you know, first of all, I felt incredibly stupid going out into the wheat field and like, hey, is there anybody here? You know, I asked all those questions, like, you know, um, but somebody did say George. And it and and I mean within a second, I was hooked. Like, one, that makes no sense. That makes zero fucking sense from like a real world perspective. Um but but I've just been hooked up. I mean, I used to go to Gettysburg, I actually it actually contributed to my divorce. Um, and that's how I ended up in Savannah, Georgia, and started this whole company because I was going to Gettysburg all the time. It almost became an unhealthy obsession where, you know, and for me it it was it was the thrill of the chase to an extent. But it it almost got to a point where you know, and I don't know what this is about me, but I I felt like like these are not my friends, but these are like these are these are like people I can relate to. You know, like like if that makes any sense. Like, you know, you there there was one part of the battlefield called Rose Woods. There's a path that leads from the triangle field over to the wheat field through Rose Woods. And I mean I mean, probably 25% of the time I would go there, I would get this very specific man's voice to the point I knew that I didn't know who he was, but I knew that it was the same guy over and over again. And it it it almost felt, you know, like like I was meant to find their story. And and you know, there was one case we actually identified somebody and and I felt really stupid doing it, but we ended up reaching out to their family, like their ancestors. Uh you know, it was it was uh a lost uh you know missing in action type situation. The guy gave us his fucking name and his state, and we were actually able to track it down as a missing in actions person. And uh I just reached out to the family one day and I was like, this is gonna sound really fucking crazy, but I just want you to listen to this audio clip. And uh I sent it to him and uh Yeah, it I I don't know. I've always just been you know, whatever these things things are, you know, the these spirits and stuff, like I don't even know how to put it, but but they deserve to be heard and they deserve the the you know for their story to be told and they deserve to be respected and and and you know, not that I'm anybody special by any means, but you know, to whatever small ability that I could, especially when I was going. I almost thought it was my obligation to try to to to give them uh their due, you know, in any small way that I could. And and that's really where the ghost ball got rolling for me. And since then it's been uh I mean my house is fucking crazy. Like I think it was a lot of the stuff you know from going on all these ghost hunts. Um like I know you're very familiar with Bobby Mackey's neck. Like I sp I spent maybe two two, two and a half months of my life there off and on, you know, and just all these places, and eventually it gets to the point where you know your house takes on an element of all this, like you bring a little bit of it back with you sometimes, I feel like. And uh shit, I'm not gonna find you not yeah, I'm not the one being interviewed here. What the fuck?

Nick Groff 1:06:43

Like no, we love hearing it. I think that's what this is all about, though, is sharing experiences, right? Collectively, all of us energetically we're here on earth to share, like stories, but everything does start from history, stories. People that were living and died, like humans create ghosts. You know, we're we're we're talking about because we define things, and what we can't define, we try to comprehend. And when we can't comprehend it, it becomes so weird. We start speculating, assuming, um, conspiracizing, you know, every down the wormhole.

Tessa Groff 1:07:17

Well, and that's why the rest, like you mentioned, having respect for the spirits, and that I think is a huge, huge thing. And it's also why to circle back, why I would not do paranormal shows, or when I was approached by different production companies wanting me to play a role or do certain things and be produced, and I just wasn't willing to do that because as a medium, um, when you're connecting with people who have passed, when you have somebody who like lost a child or you had somebody who lost somebody tragically, you know that that information and that person on the other side means something and meant something to somebody. And and so when you walk into a location, most of the time, I'm not gonna say all the time, but most of the time, the spirits that reside there were probably tied to the building. They had a life, they had people who loved them and they deserve respect, you know. And so I think when I met Nick and I realized, you know, at the time that I met him, he had been able to pull away from the network. He's talented enough that he literally films, edits, you know, he does everything to to make his shows. Um, and I realized that he was extremely genuine. I'm not doing this just to toot your horn, but truly like he was genuine. There was no being overproduced.

Tim Nealon 1:08:30

Like, this is the best interview ever. Everybody's telling me how genuine I am.

Nick Groff 1:08:33

And you know, like, go on, baby. No one puts baby in the corner on here.

Tessa Groff 1:08:40

Um no, really, he he was so genuine. And I realized, like, oh shit, I could actually like be me and not have to be produced. And there is a level of or editing or like, um, and there was a level of respect that we we do in every situation. We try to respect the spirits that are there. And you find that when you do that and you're not just chasing because when you're chasing something negative and some crazy shit, you're gonna get that back, you know. But if you're if you're chasing validity and you're chasing um, you want evidence, like true evidence, you're gonna get that back. And the spirits do know when you're being respectful, and they typically tend to respond in that way with you.

Closing Thanks And Future Topics

Nick Groff 1:09:19

So yeah, you have to have a balanced lifestyle, right? Everyone thinks like we're just hunting the in the darkness and we're looking for like that negative response where we're gonna jump and freak us out. But there has to be some sort of balance when you walk away from a location because we do deal with a lot of negative energy and negative entities or spirits or people. Um, yeah, and even even the living, even the living put off energy, you know. It like it, there's energy vampires out there in a sense, is what we call them.

Tim Nealon 1:09:48

Colin Robinson, where are you?

Nick Groff 1:09:49

Yeah, exactly. And you can bring that home, like you're talking about. Like you will sponge it up and have that little cloud over your head, and it will follow you. And sometimes it's hard to kind of get rid of and and rinse that negativity off of your own body and energy. But I think that's you know, Tessa's great. Like we go and we we meet with a lot of families and stuff like that, uh, especially in season five we did with Deathwalker, and she'll we'll continue to talk to them when we leave. We still do. Uh, we've talked to multiple families that we investigate with that needed help, and even their kids have reached out uh through their parents. And I think a lot of times it's just turn and burn with a lot of episodes I see on like, you know, networks or whatever. And I get it. I get the producing element of it, and I get what's going on. And it's cool to have, you know, from our perspective, sometimes it's it's a good thing to have a position to be on a network to fundamentally keep doing what you love to do. But the downside sometimes with that is politics and egos and just dumbasses who get in the way that like I need to have something better. No, I do, or whatever the heck the case is. I got into it just for passion, but then I got into it because, oh, it became something. Holy crap. Now we get to do more locations, more investigations. And now, you know, we're lucky enough to do it on our own. But I think the ultimate goal always, and I was lucky enough, or I shouldn't say lucky enough, I went after it, was not to be run by a production company or a network to be told like what to do in a sense, maybe change some narratives or something like that, I guess at one point. But I think ultimately we're cool, like Death Walker, for example. Like, we go off, we shoot it, and we deliver it. Like, no one tells us, no one notes it and says, You need to make this narration better. It needs to be scarier. I've heard executives throughout the year needs to be scarier in this spot. I'm just like, does it? Does it? Well, why don't you get out of your cubicle and go do that? I I I've gotten into arguments with with some execs over stupid stuff like that. I'm like, it really doesn't. I go, you know, the organic elements come from when something truly does happen. And you can't, you can't like you can't act that when somebody is genuinely scared and something really does happen, let that play off. Like I did in permal lockdown. That was a huge part of what I fought for. Uh, just film everything. This three days straight, just film everything, keep the cameras rolling because you never know when something's gonna happen. Yeah. Uh, for instance, I would just film myself sleeping in um in like jail cells and like you know, creepiest places by myself. And when I would wake up, I'd leave the recorder forgetting the recorder was still rolling next to me. And I'd wake up, I'd play it back right on camera, just right in the moment. I'm hearing like feet walk up to it, and then like a dog growling in the thing, and then you know, someone screaming and talking. I would hear like conversations like, holy crap, this was happening around me. Or then I would look at the raw footage of the camera to see, okay, is it like bleeding through on the camera, or is it actually on the recorder through that other frequency we don't hear in the decibel? And what I realized on the camera is like there's nothing there, and it would scare me. But then sometimes there would be nothing on the recorder, but I'd look on the camera and there'd be a family of raccoons walking by me sleeping, and I'd be so scared to go to be killed by bats, raccoons, or animals or an environment. So it's just, you know.

Tim Nealon 1:13:12

The first time I watched that show, I'll be honest, I was like, this dude has a lot of balls. Um, because like, you know, I've been in a lot of haunted locations, and you know, I I've spent a fair time of those uh time in those haunted locations by myself, but there was always somebody else there, you know, whether they were in the next room or something. But to to, yeah, I I don't know if I would do that.

Nick Groff 1:13:32

Yeah, it was it was scary, man. It was scary. Honestly, I I I will pretty much go the distance. Um, my cousin Justin and I developed that show and we made it, but there was times where I would tell him, and I would be the only, like, swear to god, it was legit, I'd be the only one in there all the way on this side of the mental hospital. There was trans alligating lunatic asylum when I had to go to the fourth floor to sleep there. I couldn't tell you how internally scared I actually really was. Um just trying to go to sleep in the middle of the hallway with all the doors open. And I was so vulnerable. And I I would joke, like, okay, well, it the what's the worst that could happen? Me getting dragged on my sleeping bag and dragged down the hall. Then I'll be scared. But I think I I would be super nervous because there would be these faces looking down at me, and it would freak me out at times when I'm like half asleep and I'd see it, and I'd I like my hallucinating. Is this really happening? But that's what we were talking about earlier: vulnerability, how you were talking, or near death, or crossing over. There's a vulnerability that occurs that I really strongly believe is when spirits are allowed to communicate. Um, and that's where you do have a lot of experiences going to sleep, or children have this because they're not tainted by the world. They're vulnerable and they're open and their brains are open. They got the imaginary, and then they got like, no, this is really happening. So we have it happening all the time with our kids.

Tim Nealon 1:15:00

So the being dragged out of bed thing, it's funny. That you saw my reaction maybe as soon as you said that. So I was in old South Pittsburgh hospital in Tennessee, and and the way that they had it set up was you know, you could sleep in the hospital in like the old patient beds and stuff, and it was me and two guys, and we were we were spending in we're sleeping in the same fucking room. I don't give a shit. Call me whatever you want. Um, but there was one one night where I woke up and my arm was it felt like it was being pulled away from me. And I remember the first time I yanked, like I like I couldn't yank my arm back, and I slightly panicked, and I did it again, and I was able to get my arm back. Like it was just very quick. But well, and I don't like admitting this publicly, but then again, I don't care. Um the the way that they had the patient room set up on the they had it on the inside where they get you could put a padlock on the inside, I guess, so like they could keep people out of certain rooms. Well, my buddy had a padlock with him, and I padlocked the shell of that fucking door because in my head, I was thinking some fucking ghost or something is gonna drag me out of this bed down the hallway, and I'm imagining myself like clawing, you know, like a horror movie, you know, like no. So I was like, we're padlocking this fucking door because if I get dragged anywhere, it's not at least not going any further than this door. Um, but but that happened one time. We're we're actually gonna be in Trans Allegheny in May.

Nick Groff 1:16:13

Oh, that place is by far like my top five like uh most amazing locations. Um, we gotta go. You've never been there. No, but I I've heard that I've you're the second person who told me about the old Pittsburgh uh hospital. Uh I had another buddy that went there and had like the most terrifying experience ever. Um, we've never been there.

Tessa Groff 1:16:33

I'm all set.

Nick Groff 1:16:34

Like, I was supposed to be there, but we gotta go there. I really we have to go there.

Tim Nealon 1:16:38

If you guys want to go there, I'd be happy to show you around because I actually managed that hospital for a couple years.

Nick Groff 1:16:43

Tessa with L. Her face is like, no. I'm like, yeah. I've heard it's super scary. I was supposed to go there for Death Walker, but something uh changed and we couldn't go there, but I've never been able to go there.

Tim Nealon 1:16:58

Out of all the places I've ever been, I always tell this, you know, it's come up on podcasts before, it is the number one most haunted place I've ever been. And I haven't been to as I haven't been to as many as you have, of course, but I've been to a lot. And uh I mean it it terrifying experiences, yeah. I mean, this place has them. You know, I I I hate to use the word demon because you know, demons everywhere and you know, all that stuff. But I mean, there there's something that that some people might describe as one there. And uh because that thing I mean, at one point I thought I was gonna kill myself, like legitimately kill myself, um, when I was at home once. Um actually it was it goes back to that psychic story that I told you about earlier where the lady said hey about this whole that whole story is related. But I mean, shadow people, I mean, I I've literally watched people get picked up a couple inches off the floor and thrown into the wall behind them. Um and then, of course, more benign stuff, like you know, tons and tons of EVPs. I've seen more shadow people at Old South Pittsburgh Hospital than anywhere in my life. Um, and and it's just it's just crazy. I mean, Trans-Allegheny though, I mean, I I'm very much looking forward to go back. It's it's one of the two places that actually made me cry on a ghost investigation. And and it was because we were on the the was it third floor that has the kids or that that the kids were typically on, or was it the fourth floor? On Trans Allegheny? Yeah, in Trans Allegheny. I don't know.

Nick Groff 1:18:16

Um I forget which floor. I remember interviewing the nurse that used to work there, and she was telling me some crazy stories off camera and on camera. But um, I think uh yeah, because there's the old Civil War hospital in the backside of the main uh administration building, and I think I forget the floors. Um it might have been the second or third floor. I don't I don't exactly remember.

Tim Nealon 1:18:41

Yeah, it was I think it was the third, but I don't remember for sure either. But I mean the gist of it was, you know, we're renting the facility out. So I think you know, whatever time we had to leave, you know, 3, 4, 5 a.m. I don't even remember at this point. You know, I was on that floor and and you know, we we were, you know, had the idea that there might have been, you know, the ghosts of children around us. We were interacting with them, playing music, old time music. And uh we were getting ready to leave, and I just said, All right, guys, like you know, it's time for us to go. And there were two voices. It was, I if I remember correctly, and I always try to be certain about this, because you know how time goes on, you can accidentally add facts or whatever, but there were two little kid voices, and I think if I remember correctly, it was a boy and a girl. One said, Please don't go, and then the other one said, I'm lonely. And that like I I just I was like, holy shit. I remember I was with an ex-girlfriend, I was like, How do I leave? Like, I I can't, you know, leave these kids. I mean, that sounds kind of silly to say out loud, but it's like, how do you leave? Like, I and I got you know all teary-eyed and and started crying a little bit, and I just felt like you know, at the at the end of the day, you know, whatever these things are, they unless I'm a great unless we're all crazy people, it's something with emotion. Like it's something that has feelings, and like and like who like in real life, I would never abandon a little kid that was alone in in a hallway, right? Like if I was a real little kid, you would not walk away. So how can I do it just because I can't see it? You know, and but it was always an emotional struggle, especially. I'm sure you guys have dealt with you know, ghosts of kids or spirits of kids, or how you want to refer to them as well. And that's always super emotional. And then I tell that to half the people, and they're like, No, that's a demon trying to trick you. I'm like, whatever.

Tessa Groff 1:20:15

Well, I think if I had a quarter for every time somebody said that the people that I talked to are demons, it's all it's all belief and perspective, I think.

Nick Groff 1:20:24

But you we do have a ghost child that is in our house that comes around once in a while. It's a little boy. Um, but all of our kids not knowing have all individually experienced this kid.

Tessa Groff 1:20:36

Yeah, I when I first moved into this house, like prior to meeting Nick, um as obviously as a medium, I picked up on something. And I in my head, I'm thinking, like, come on, like I grew up in a haunted house my whole life. Yeah, like when I was house shopping, I avoided a lot of houses simply because I felt something there. And like my older son's father at the time was totally like not into this. He was like a sheriff, wanted nothing to do with it. I think it terrified him. And so I'm just like, we can't live in that house. We can't go over here, we can't do this, we can't do that. Um, and he thought I was crazy, probably. And then we come to this house, and I'm I'm in this house. I was a single mom for like six years by myself. And um immediately I started picking up on somebody in this house. And what was weird is at the time, you know, my two older boys, they're growing up, I would see them talking to somebody specifically in their room. And uh people would walk by their room, people who just had no idea, and would see this little child with, and they it was always described the same way a little boy with older clothing. I I don't know, was it blonde hair? Well, a little boy with overalls on, but like older clothing. So not anything you would see here. It would be like older clothing, overalls, a button was missing, and he had on like a hat that would look like something from back in like the 1900s or something. And every child that we've had has seen or talked about this little boy. We've seen, and like even more recently, um, I was looking past Nick one one night because we have like a how old he'll be two in April. Um, so he just finished teething and stuff. So typically they get up, they're trying to open the doors, they're we don't sleep anymore. So um, and there was times where I would look over and see a child-sized, you know, something, shadow, and think that one of the kids was awake and come to find out it wasn't. And um, and so this has been happening progressively. More recently, my uncle sends me a picture, and I think this like blew my mind because of just the details. But my uncle sends me a picture and I'm looking at this picture that he sends me, and it looks like something from like an old book or an old newspaper, and it said it was a button factory. And so I'm I'm writing my uncle and I'm like, what the hell is this? And he's like, That's that's where your house is. Like this button factory used to be where your house is. I'm like, get the hell out of here. Like this thing is massive. How would it fit over here? Because we we live by water, like a creek and all this stuff. Um, and this big, big factory used to sit on this land and it was a button factory. And then all of a sudden it clicked. And I was like, holy shit. The one detail that everybody always talks about this child is he's missing a button on his overalls. So then I'm like, maybe this kid something happened at this factory, and it's not necessarily our house that's haunted, but maybe it's the land, you know. Um, so again, these are things that like we talk about all the time and we're always uh looking into.

Nick Groff 1:23:40

But I mean it's not negative or anything like that. I think I, you know, it's weird because I I theorized for a bit too about the paranormal with spirits. I I do think there's a part of it where we're experiencing obviously ghosts and stuff like that, someone who's died, like we're describing. But then my weird brain goes into what happens if we're just uh bending time in a sense, where if we're in like whatever, uh a room or the warehouse or something that's actually happening right now. And then here we are in the present time of our reality, and both of us are experiencing that, you know, time where we're bending, where that little boy's seen us, we're seeing him, and he's like, Oh my god, who is this alien or ghost? And we're like, oh my god, who's this ghost? There's I think a part of me that thinks into some like dimensional pool that has happened like that too. So it's just super strange. But um what's weird though, why I do believe this is a ghost, the little boy is because he he comes around and he's aware that he sees us and then goes. So he understands that he's experiencing seeing us, and we, you know, quickly are experiencing him. Plus, all our kids have experienced him. I've even seen him peeking around corners. Like I'll be laying on the couch one like late night or something with like uh Lucio or our other son, and you know, I'm just like sleep at five and I look, and there's the kid looking at me around the corner. I'm like, whoa, you know, I'm like uh just stuff like that. So I mean, you you know, like like we were talking about in the beginning, this is our life. We do this every day constantly, and we're constantly experiencing stuff, constantly talking about, theorizing about it, deep talk about it. And, you know, we're lucky enough to um be able to keep doing what we love to do, in a sense. And now we have this great company, Brandon TV, who teamed up with us to do this family show. Uh, so now they're gonna be documenting our complete family of everything. We're kind of talking about not just like the straight investigation show. It's basically everything going on um off the cameras, on the cameras, you know, like Tessa's making pasta dinner downstairs, and then all of a sudden she's solving a homicide case in Florida somewhere, and I'm setting up like the next location with you in Pittsburgh, and here we go. Like, you know what I mean? So it's just it's wild, man.

Tim Nealon 1:25:57

I think that's actually gonna be really interesting. You know, I'm not I'm not actually a huge fan of reality TV, but the that that, you know, but because you know, obviously, you know, over the past, you know, especially 15 years, you know, I have not done anything near the scale of what you guys have done, but I've been involved in this. I've done a shit ton of ghost hunting. And and and and there is a lot that goes on behind the scenes that either people think happens behind the scenes that really doesn't, or you know, things that that do happen behind the scenes that a lot of people aren't aware of. And I think maybe if people were more aware of some of those things that go on behind the scenes, one, you might not have all these people running off to haunted buildings all the time being so interested in catching ghosts because it's not always, you know, fun. Uh especially when you know they they come home with you and you'd spend two years of your life feeling suicidal, you know, which is one of the things that happened to me. I'm like, this is not fun. Um, but but I think that'd be terribly interesting. Yeah, I'll I'll watch it.

Nick Groff 1:26:52

Oh yeah, yeah. What you're gonna get with what you see is what you get.

Tim Nealon 1:26:55

I mean, we're pretty straight shooters, and it'll give me something other than Bob's burgers to watch. Because right now that's really all I watch. Bob's burgers and hockey. That's all I watch. So we we've talked about quite a bit today, but I really want to go back and and kind of finish this on what can the public look forward to coming from you guys? Because I know it's not just the documentary, you know, the devil's mark. I also saw that you guys are starting to do some online ghost hunting classes and stuff like that. Like, so so what's going on in the Nick and Tessa world that you want everybody to know about?

Tessa Groff 1:27:25

Our biggest thing that we're excited about is this reality show. This way we could show people what goes on behind the scenes on and off camera. Um, I get to also, I think, showcase the criminal investigation aspect of things. Um, we sometimes work together on those as well, but I think people need to see more of that. Out of respect for the families and stuff, I don't publicize them as much. There's a couple that I have. Um, but that's something that I do frequently that nobody really sees um and that we work on together. So I think that's going to be really cool. We did offer an online um investigation course. Yep. Um we'll be doing more. We'll be doing more.

Tim Nealon 1:28:01

And by the way, as as somebody who deals with the I think the public that we deal with here at Go City Tours is probably very different than the public you guys deal with, even though like we're kind of in the same world. Yeah. I highly suggest so many of you need to take this class. And I say that with love. But like I I I hear you guys like uh on tours and I see the stuff that you guys send us after tours. Um it I you with love, please go take their course. Like I and they have an ad I'm not a salesperson, by the way. Like I'm just saying, like I I I really think a lot of people would benefit from learning how to do this from some uh you know people like you have been who have been doing this for a long time.

Nick Groff 1:28:38

Right. And I I think at the end of the day, we decided to do it because we've just like conversated, like we're talking right now like this. I think that's how we can all learn because we're not I'm no expert either. I'm always learning. There is no experts in the paranormal. If there was an expert, just give me the answers of everything, wait a minute.

Tim Nealon 1:28:55

There's no experts in this field? Because I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure every show I see is like paranormal expert at the bottom.

Nick Groff 1:29:00

I think there's experience, you know, there's experience of what is and what isn't, and what works, and yeah, what works, what works, you know, stuff like that. But that's why we decided to do that. Um, to try to help people, or maybe they have questions with us, or maybe we can learn something too. I mean, you know, you never know, and that's what it's all about. But we have events coming up. Um, we have one at uh Pennhurst coming up in May. So we have the Pennhurst Paracon coming up.

Tim Nealon 1:29:27

I'll actually uh I'll actually be there.

Nick Groff 1:29:29

I think that oh awesome. Well, let definitely um let's meet. Yeah, if you're there, definitely I would love to say hi to you in person. Yeah. Um, so Pennhurst coming up in May. We have uh Gettysburg in March. Um, what else are we doing? We have oh yeah, the we'll be in the UK.

Tessa Groff 1:29:46

Okay, we'll be in the UK in October for a paracon out there. Um and then in between, we're probably gonna be booking a couple other events, um, live readings, things like that.

Nick Groff 1:29:58

Investor in a lot.

Tim Nealon 1:29:59

Maybe old visiting old South Pittsburgh Hospital.

Tessa Groff 1:30:01

Maybe. Yeah. I'm telling you, you gotta go there. You gotta go there.

Tim Nealon 1:30:07

Like it, it's it's so crazy there. Yeah. Um, you gotta you gotta visit it. Um that we should know about? What else? Um, book coming out.

Tessa Groff 1:30:19

Oh, yeah, I do have a book coming out. Yeah. Um, it's gonna highlight a lot of people ask and want to know how like how did I become a medium or where did that come from? And how did you know? And uh, I tell my entire story from start to start. Well, the first book is basically from childhood up until I have my kids, because um, when I had my first son, I feel like things changed so drastically. And I think that especially women who have uh any ability, I feel like once you have kids, it's like a whole different ballgame. It does something and it changes you. And so there will be another book, you know, after that to describe that as well. But I do have a book coming out. Nick has another book coming out, so we both have books coming out.

Nick Groff 1:31:04

Forget about my book. Hers is really good. No, I I have a book coming out too. I have an album coming out, book coming out. We were like this year, you know, we got over the hurdle of our kids, uh like our last kid almost being two, and we're like, we're just we're gonna go for it this year. We're gonna put our books out, we're gonna put everything we wanted to do that we couldn't do in the last couple of years because just having kids and stuff.

Tessa Groff 1:31:25

Yeah, we took we took some time to focus on you know, the babies and uh just that type of stuff. And then once they're you know a little bit more durable and we don't have to worry so much, we just kind of like broke out and we're like, all right, we got stuff to do, let's get going.

Tim Nealon 1:31:39

So yeah, like I said, the hardest working couple in the paranormal.

Nick Groff 1:31:43

Yeah, a lot of exciting stuff coming out. And then we have the big movie premiere on May 23rd for the Devil's Mark coming out, and um uh season four and five, Deathwalk will be probably coming out in America soon. Um well on a bigger platform. It's it's behind like paywall of Amazon, but we have more stuff coming. Um, and we're working on a new series and the reality show, like we talked about. So, yeah, a lot a lot of stuff in the works. Um, obviously, we're constantly posting on social media uh some clips and stuff like that, behind the scenes your readings and um yeah, just taking the kids to school, talking to ghosts, you know, talking to dead people, making dinner, yeah, making dinners, constantly like a bed and breakfast up in here, right? Yeah, food.

Tessa Groff 1:32:31

I'm like at some point I have to come out with a cookbook because all I do is cook time.

Nick Groff 1:32:35

Oh, she's amazing. That's the plus I got. Uh amazing cook. Yeah.

Tim Nealon 1:32:39

I get the sense of are you of Italian descent?

Tessa Groff 1:32:42

A hundred percent.

Tim Nealon 1:32:43

Yeah, there you go, like Italian food, it's the best food. I don't, you know.

Nick Groff 1:32:48

Yeah, don't cross or she'll she'll cut you and then talk to you when you're dead. That's it.

Tim Nealon 1:32:54

Yeah, I believe it totally. Hey, by the way, one more one more question. I was gonna ask you guys this earlier, and this is just for me, like personally. So earlier we were talking about past lives. I said minor, you said something, and then you looked at her and said, Do you sense something or how what you asked?

Nick Groff 1:33:10

And you kind of shook your head a little bit, like, hmm, like oh, when I was talking to you about like because I I I don't know, just stuff comes to me sometimes, and I think I just randomly asked him about did he have a past life uh vigil. And you you said yes, or you were not. I knew what you were thinking, but I think that's what he's asking you.

Tessa Groff 1:33:30

I'm picking up on a lot of stuff.

Tim Nealon 1:33:32

You open the door, here it comes. Like, not that I want some free reading here, even if that was possible. Like, I was just like, like, what were you what were you thinking? Oh, she's holding back.

Tessa Groff 1:33:41

I've been holding back, and he knows that I've been holding back because I'm like again, I don't know who's open to readings and who's not, because there's people standing behind the camera with the whoever you mentioned behind the camera as well. So then I'm like, I don't know what to say or how to say this. Like, I don't know who's open to it.

Tim Nealon 1:33:57

You should say it one, I am open to anything. Two, I pay those guys, so if they don't like it, they can eat shit.

Tessa Groff 1:34:03

You will get a reading and you will like it.

Tim Nealon 1:34:05

Yeah. No, I was I was just curious if like what that was about. Because I'm like, wait a minute, did she sense something about me?

Tessa Groff 1:34:12

I I I didn't know what that was about, but well, in regards to the past life, I I think more so instead of picking up on something specific with your past life, I think that your visions are accurate. I mean, for sure, because I think that our interests, like typically you'll find that you are um drawn to like a certain era or a certain time period um because you are tied to it in a past life. Um, there's also like phobias that we have, things we're afraid of, things that we're drawn to uh for work or things like that in your career. And I think a lot of that does stem from your past life being dragged into this one. Um, and there's a lot of theories behind that type of stuff that I could get into. But so when you were talking about that, I was kind of like, oh yeah, that makes sense because I could totally see that and your interests and the things that take place now being tied to, you know, past life because we've experienced that as well. Um and then at the same time, you were talking about your dad and how he's like a guardian angel to you. It's not just your dad, it's your grandfather as well. So I don't know if it's both, but I kind of am just gonna put it out there. It feels more like your mom's father because I feel like you were closer with him. And so it's like your dad and then your mom's grandfather, one of them was in the military, and you have like very protective people around you. You didn't get to say goodbye to dad. He felt very uh much like he didn't get a chance to say goodbye to you because he made this symbol to me, which means that it happened very fast. And so there is like that weird sense of not getting to say goodbye. And I do also feel that there was something that prevented him from being able to express things to you the way he wanted to in the physical world. Um, and he never really got to say that he was proud of you or that he supported you in a lot of different ways. And so there's a feeling of not being so supported growing up and wishing that you had that. So he's trying to rectify that on the other side by you know protecting you and being with you and coming to you in these different situations. So when that woman picked up on the fact that he was like an angel to you, I a hundred percent agree with that, you know. Um sorry, sorry, I don't know if you can hear our son, he's like screaming on the other side of the door. Sorry, apologies for that.

Tim Nealon 1:36:16

Yeah, I mean, uh yeah, no, and uh and and I and I I won't keep this going on much more out of respect, you know, because I know you got to get to your kid, but you're not you're not too far off. I mean, my dad died died in a car accident um very quickly. I was four years old, five years old. Um and it was and you and you said that thing about proud. Like, you know, he wanted to know. So as an adult, this is one of the things that always drives me, and I hope my parents aren't listening to this too much. Um one of the things that always drives me in in life as a 45-year-old man is I just want to make people proud of me. That has been a constant theme in my adult life because you know, it wasn't even until a couple years ago that I think my parents told me for the first time they're even proud of me. Oh yeah. And I've I've achieved like some pretty amazing, and that's not a knock on them, by the way. We've just we're we're a very like, you know, leave the emotions kind of down below a little bit kind of family. But it you you're always craving, you know, your parents to to tell you that you're proud of them or to know that somebody's proud of you. And and and really that's what drives me in in my day-to-day life. A lot of it, even even with my wife, it's like I just want to do things where people are proud of me. You know, I I I you know, and and I don't often feel that way that people are proud of me, even though they say like uh and I'm not even gonna get that, it's a whole therapy session. But um, no, I was just I was just curious to see if you picked up on anything. So thank you for sharing that with me.

Tessa Groff 1:37:31

But you're not somebody's mother's behind the camera too. So I don't know who behind the camera lost their mom, but somebody's been over there too, kind of like she thinks that this is super cool. So I don't really know, but she's like behind the camera, kind of watching, just thinking this is really cool. And I don't know who because again, I don't know the the gentleman behind the camera, but um, but she's there as well, some sort of long-term illness, like a cancer of some sort.

Tim Nealon 1:37:53

So um so actually the I and I keep saying I'm so the gentleman that's behind me, and I don't know how this works, is I'm not I don't have any of these abilities. Like, are you able to tell if he's like a short man, an average height man, or a little tall mine? Like, man, does do that those type of things come through when you're when you're seeing somebody or sometimes.

Tessa Groff 1:38:12

Um sometimes, yeah. Yeah, sometimes they'll identify themselves either by look or just by maybe things that occurred or conversations that you had. So not only, you know, it's funny because some people always ask, like, well, if you're a psychic, then why didn't you give me his exact name and why didn't you tell me, you know, and and the reality is this spirit usually gives you what you need rather than what you want. So to answer your question, yeah, sometimes for sure they come through and they show, like, I specifically looked like this, and I, you know, um, and sometimes they don't, they'll just validate it other ways, you know. Um, but the one gentleman he's referring to being almost exactly like your height and stature.

Tim Nealon 1:38:51

Yeah, so my my grandfather was about my height. Um, he died just a couple of years ago, and I he was actually very close to me. There's there's really been four men in my life who had a huge impact on my life. You know, I had an uncle, uh, my two grandfathers, and my my dad, who's my dad, been my dad for you know 40 years now. Um, and the the grandfather I'm referring to is actually my dad's dad. My dad that my dad that died when I was very young. Um and I've always felt that him and my grandma on on that side. So you said mom's side, but it and I was close to them too, but I was more cl more close to my dad's side too. And I'm not like shitting on what you said or anything, please don't get me wrong. Like, but but I've always felt that they were kind of nearby, you know, all of them.

Tessa Groff 1:39:38

But it was weird that you brought up the accident because what I was gonna ask you is who the gentleman was that had the accident, and I wasn't sure who it belonged to, but that had been sitting in my mind the whole entire time that we were like doing this from the get-go, and I'm just like, okay, just stay focused and do the interview and don't go channeling people. But that came up as specific.

Tim Nealon 1:39:58

Yeah, he he he was actually drunk. Uh that's what it was. He he essentially killed himself. He was a drunk driver, and he killed himself when we were young, when I was young. Um, you know, totally unexpected, really quick. Um, and you know, part of the challenge for me growing up was that that struggle between and I'm not gonna air any family drama out on public air. I guess I could just cut it out. Um, but but the essentially what it was is for the longest time, my my mom, who has always been my mom, and my new dad, they would try to convince me that my real dad was not my real dad. Like, nah, he was not your real dad. And that caused a whole lot of family drama because my grandparents, I remember being a little kid arguing with my grandparents, like, no, he wasn't my dad. And they're like, Yeah, he was. What are you talking about? Well, you know, mom and dad said he's not our dad, and you know, we shouldn't even be talking about that with me. And, you know, I I I have a couple memories of my dad, but you know, it they uh they always did their best to make him seem like he was a bad person, you know, and I and I think that was just part of how families work. I don't really I don't think he was a bad person, and you know, I really didn't get to know him, but that's that's been a theme throughout my entire life is like trying to figure out who my dad is, you know, even as a 45-year-old man, like and and maybe this is one of the ways that I could do it. I've I've tried to contact him, you know, through EVP sessions and stuff like that. I don't know if I ever have. Um but you know that that's part of the thing that drives me as well. You know, I I really miss my family. I miss my grandparents terribly. Um you know, and and anything I could do to to know that they're okay and you know, and you know, I don't know, kind of makes me sad even here just sitting talking about it. They were really good people and I miss them.

Tessa Groff 1:41:32

So well, they're around you for sure. They're definitely around you. Like I sensed it immediately. There's a lot of sense of I and it makes it makes sense now as well, what you're saying, because when he came through and he said, you know, he didn't get the opportunity to say he was prouder to do the things that he wanted to do in the physical world, that could be interpreted a couple different ways, you know. And so if he struggled with something, he did also mention like that you always tried to do better, and that even though things would come in your path that you felt were going to drag you in kind of the similar direction as what he went into, that you've done a really good job to stay away from that. Um, and that you had other friends who kind of like fell into that exact path as well. And he's like, and you've really worked on having boundaries to like keep that away from yourself. So he's been working from the other side to kind of guide you and and keep you in the right directions. And your grandmother's like really funny because she's she's more the um like to like the wisdom person, like the guy, like the person who would be in your ear and be like, don't do that, don't go doing that.

Tim Nealon 1:42:33

Like you know better than that.

Tessa Groff 1:42:36

Like she's always right here to say those things to you. Um, she really loved being outside, like the garden and things like that. And she says she tip you feel her a lot when you're outside, which is interesting to me. Um, so you do have like a lot of people around you, you have a lot of family around you, definitely somebody protective.

Tim Nealon 1:42:56

It's something.

Tessa Groff 1:42:57

It's something.

Tim Nealon 1:42:58

Yeah. All right. Well, well, on that note, I I I know you guys got your kids and everything. And I think we're only gonna do an hour and a half, or already shit. Two hours and five minutes. These guys are gonna kill me because they have to edit all this stuff.

Nick Groff 1:43:09

Yeah. So oh yeah, we could we could talk forever about this. I like again, we love this subject, and I mean we could go down the the rabbit hole about all sorts of stuff. Don't even get me started on like space and time and extraterrestrials. That's that's for the next time, but no, we we really appreciate it, man. I can't thank you enough. Um, you you got some awesome questions. Got me thinking now. We're probably gonna go and I'll be sitting here talking to my three-year-old. You know, there is something about time. It's funny, every day when I take him to like uh his school, he goes like Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and uh we drive by this old Victorian house, and he always talks about this ghost boy that's in that house, and he's like, Oh, the ghost boy's there. Um, and I always ask him, like, how's he doing today? He's like, Oh, he's doing good. Can we go in there someday and talk to him? So that always happens with us. So yeah, we're excited. We're excited. He's in my lap right now. It's two up here.

Tim Nealon 1:44:08

No, it's all right. Well, you know, Nick and Tessa, we've been talking for actually a lot longer than I realized, about two hours here. So I uh you know, I want to be respectful of your time, but I really want to thank you guys for coming on the podcast and and having a conversation. Uh you've given me a lot to think about, and and uh I hope that we have a chance to continue this conversation whether in person or maybe come back again at a later date and let's go over those aliens, Nick. Because I'll be honest, I'm one of those people that like I don't know if I believe in aliens. So actually, it might be a pretty interesting conversation because while I'm not dismissing the possibility, I'm like, uh are you sure? Like, you know, um like I don't I don't know. I don't know. I guess that's really what it comes down to. So yeah, who knows? We haven't done an alien episode yet. I'm still trying to figure it out.

Nick Groff 1:44:55

I'm still trying to figure it out, so I'm right there with you.

Tim Nealon 1:44:57

Yeah, so that can be fun. But no, regardless, I I'm gonna let you uh get you get you guys back to your day. But it once again, thank you guys so much for joining us on the podcast.

Producer 1:45:06

This episode was brought to you by Ghost City Tours, your guide to the haunted side of history in over 25 cities nationwide. From restless spirits to unsolved mysteries, our tours bring the dead back to life. Book now for a haunted city near you at ghostcityurs.com. Be sure to subscribe to the Ghost City Podcast on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, and wherever you get your podcasts. And remember, stay spooky.