Dark History, Haunted Objects, and the Medieval Torture Museum | Ghost City Podcast

Rats, fire, a metal cage, and a slow inevitability. That’s where we start, because medieval torture isn’t really “ancient history” when you can still trace its logic in the way societies talk about punishment today. We’re joined by Kim Ashmore, the general manager for the Medieval Torture Museum in Los Angeles, and we ask the questions most people avoid once the details get too real: what were these devices built to do, how did they actually work, and why did anyone think this belonged in a justice system? 

Kim walks us through the museum’s mission and why interactivity matters for historical learning, especially when the subject is execution tools and torture devices like the guillotine, Iron Maiden, pendulum blade, rack, and more. We unpack the courtroom purpose behind torture, the brutal incentive structure of forced confessions, and the way public fear shaped “order.” Then we go to the darkest corner of the map, comparing infamous methods like the Sicilian bull, torture by rats, impalement on a spire, and the bloody eagle, plus what it reveals about deterrence and spectacle. 

Because we’re Ghost City, we also can’t resist the haunted object angle. If trauma can imprint on places and things, what does that mean for a museum full of instruments built for suffering? We end by talking modern punishment, including solitary confinement, and where you can find the Medieval Torture Museum beyond LA, with locations in Chicago and St. Augustine. 

If you enjoy dark history, true crime, haunted history, and museum culture, subscribe, share this with a friend who can handle the topic, and leave a review. What part of this conversation changed the way you think about “justice”?

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Transcript

Rats Torture Cold Open

SPEAKER_06 0:00

Torture by rats. So basically, what they would do is they would place two to three rats on your stomach, put a cage over top of them, strap you and the cage to the table, and light it on fire.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

But the person would be dead by then, right?

SPEAKER_06 0:14

Like no.

Tim Nealon 0:23

All right, guys, we are back with another episode of the Ghost City podcast. Uh, which camera am I looking at today, guys? This one. All right, right there. There you are. All right. So we're back with another episode. And today we're being joined by Kim. Now, Kim uh is a little bit different than a lot of the people that we've been talking to recently. You guys have heard us talk to you know, Steve from Ghost Hunters and all these other people. Now, Kim's very interested in torturing people. And uh I don't know, is that true, Kim? Are you interested in torturing people?

SPEAKER_05 0:55

More so emotionally, uh mentally than physically, but yeah.

Tim Nealon 1:00

Yeah, so yeah, I I understand that. So, Kim, she she works at the Medieval Torture Museum in Los Angeles, and that's what we're going to be talking a lot about today is medieval torture. But before we get into that, Kim, you just said something that I'm I want to dig into a little bit. Um, so I'm always interested in like how how women's minds work. And you said that you like torturing people emotionally, and I do believe that because you're a woman and women and women do that. So, so what is this modern day torture that that women keep perpetuating that I think you're referring to? How does that work?

SPEAKER_06 1:37

Most women, myself included, we know how a man's brain works, right? So we know how to manipulate that to get what we want.

Tim Nealon 1:46

Now, is that torture or is that just being a shitty person?

SPEAKER_06 1:49

Most of the time it's torture, but there are some people that do it for nefarious reasons.

Tim Nealon 1:55

I know I believe that. Um, Carter over there has actually been dealing with that himself. Um, he's been being manipulated by a lot of women lately. I don't know if you want to go into that at all, Carter, or not, but no, it's too painful. Yeah, Carter. So we just got back from Pennsylvania. We were at Pennhurst, uh, where we did the Paracon. And so Carter met this woman. They were in the line to get hot dogs. And Carter came back. He was very excited. He's like, dude, I think I met the woman of my dreams and all this stuff. And uh, but then the next day he saw her walking around with another man at Paracon, and Carter lost it. Like there were so many hugs we had to give out.

SPEAKER_04 2:35

I thought we shared a wiener together.

Tim Nealon 2:37

Yeah. Um, all right.

Meet Kim And The Museum

Tim Nealon 2:43

So uh medieval torture museum. Demonetized. We're just a bunch of goofballs here, Kim. We actually do take our job seriously from time to time. So, you know, tell me a little bit about the middle medieval torture museum there in Los Angeles. Like, you know, is uh I'm assuming it's a museum where people can walk in and see exhibits and stuff. Um, but how did this whole middle medieval torture museum thing get started? Do you know?

SPEAKER_06 3:08

Um, I know our owner, the creator of this museum, he had gone to a museum in Europe, uh-huh, and he was really turned off by the fact that you can't really interact with the devices. You can't see how they work, how they move, how they function. And he wanted to bring that to the masses. So he started creating a collection of his own of these devices from all over the world and putting them into places that people can actually touch them, interact with them, use them, see how they work, how they function, and it just brings so much more of that interesting history to people that they can't get at other museums.

Tim Nealon 3:52

So the owner of this, he he went to Europe, he found these torture devices, and he said, Man, I would I want to see these things in action. So he decided to start um gathering his own.

unknown 4:05

Yes.

Tim Nealon 4:06

So I understand everybody has to collect things. Like I collect like dinosaur statues and sadness. Um but he decided I am going to collect devices that have been used to torture and kill human beings.

SPEAKER_07 4:21

Yes.

Tim Nealon 4:22

So the devices that you have in the medieval torture museum today, have they actually been used on people? Or are they like replicas?

SPEAKER_06 4:30

Some of them have been used on people.

Tim Nealon 4:32

Oh, uh, can you tell me about one of them?

SPEAKER_06 4:36

Um, one of them is a guillotine.

Tim Nealon 4:39

Oh, you have a guillotine?

SPEAKER_06 4:40

We have several, but one is a true real life guillotine.

Tim Nealon 4:46

You know, it's funny you bring that up because I have been looking for a guillotine lately.

SPEAKER_06 4:50

Um I I have three of them here.

Tim Nealon 4:54

Hmm. How much does a guillotine go for?

SPEAKER_06 4:58

Honestly, no clue.

Tim Nealon 5:00

All right. Well, if we can come up with a deal, I think uh I think we need a guillotine, guys. I can chop some heads off. Anyways, all right, so so you have so this guillotine was actually used in the past to to decapitate people.

SPEAKER_07 5:16

Yes.

Tim Nealon 5:17

And people find this fun.

SPEAKER_06 5:21

Like to oh yeah, like oh yeah, it is probably one of the most popular devices that we have in the museum.

Tim Nealon 5:28

Now, the the next question I have is slightly goofy, but I'm also curious. Like, do you allow people to pose with their head in the guillotine? And like take really yes. So, how do you know that this thing isn't all of a sudden gonna like you know chop their head off?

SPEAKER_06 5:44

Well, the one that is functional, uh-huh, you cannot get into. Uh-huh. You can pose in.

Tim Nealon 5:52

Right. I think it would also be funny to create one that doesn't really chop their head off, but like they think that it's gonna chop their head off, and then you pull the cord and they scream, and then like like cool whip falls on them or something. Uh and then they're like that would be hilarious. Because they think they're gonna die, and all of a sudden they get the most delicious uh accessory to pumpkin pie ever made, which is cool whip dump on them.

SPEAKER_08 6:16

Yeah.

Tim Nealon 6:17

Did I mention it's been a long time since I've done one of these? I'm trying to find my groove again.

SPEAKER_08 6:22

Now you're good.

Tim Nealon 6:23

So, you know, aside from the guillotine, what what other kind of torture devices do you guys have in the museum?

SPEAKER_06 6:28

Um,

Guillotine Iron Maiden Pendulum

SPEAKER_06 6:29

so we also have an Iron Maiden. That's my personal favorite.

Tim Nealon 6:32

Okay, so I think I think I know what that is, but explain that to me. What is an Iron Maiden?

SPEAKER_06 6:37

So an Iron Maiden is this giant steel coffin, basically, that stands up, you're locked in, and there's holes all the way around this thing, and the executioner would come up and poke you with a rod, a very sharp rod.

Tim Nealon 6:56

Right. Like like uh like there's rods inside the coffin, like when they close it, or yes, because I think I know what this is. It's like there's spikes on the inside when they close it, it kind of like just like stabs you a hundred times.

SPEAKER_07 7:11

Yes, yeah.

Tim Nealon 7:12

So I wonder if that's where Iron Maiden the band got their name from. Because every time you listen to them, it sounds like you're being pierced with a hundred metal spikes. I'm willing to bet there's something there. Um, all right, so we got guillotines, we got Iron Maidens. What else do you guys got?

SPEAKER_06 7:28

We have a pendulum.

Tim Nealon 7:29

Okay. I I I mean I know what that is, but go ahead and explain that to me, anyways.

SPEAKER_06 7:34

Um, so basically it looks like a rack. You're strapped onto this table, and there is a pendulum knife that runs across the middle and slowly cuts you.

Tim Nealon 7:44

Like they lower the knife a little bit at a time and it like just continually cuts you and cuts you until you're in half.

SPEAKER_05 7:50

Yep.

Tim Nealon 7:51

Hmm. I don't know if I'd want to go that way. That doesn't sound very fun. Um so you know, instead of just listing off every device that you have, so you know, I I know that in in today's society, like we throw around the word torture quite a bit. Like I jokingly, you know, made the comment about all women torturing men. But the kind of torturing that you're talking about is not is much more extreme. And um I I guess what what I want to figure out is why were they torturing people to begin with?

Why Torture Became Justice

SPEAKER_06 8:32

The vast majority of the reason was is it was part of the judicial system right back in that day. Um, most of the time the judge was literally judge jury execution.

SPEAKER_07 8:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 8:45

He would be the one that would say, okay, well, I think this person is guilty, but they're not owning up to it. Let's do this to them and they're gonna tell us the truth.

Tim Nealon 8:57

Now, did that often work? Because I know sometimes like they would torture people and then because not all the people who are tortured were actually guilty of what they were being accused of, right? And a lot of times, like the innocent person would just admit to anything just to make it stop.

SPEAKER_07 9:14

Yes, yes, they would.

Tim Nealon 9:16

But then wouldn't they just be killed then, anyways?

SPEAKER_07 9:18

Yep.

Tim Nealon 9:19

So it just seems like there was really no point to torture because you're gonna end up dead anyways.

SPEAKER_06 9:26

Exactly. Um, most of the time they wouldn't even touch the idea of torturing somebody unless they had absolute fruit, right? And they just needed that guilty, yes, I did it.

Tim Nealon 9:39

There there's this one torture device that that I that I've seen a couple times, because I I've often thought, like, if I had to be tortured, I don't know why I think this occasionally, like, which way would I not want to be tortured? And you might know what I'm talking about. It was the one where it was like a brass or or steel, I think it was like a cow, right? And but it was hollow, and they would put you in it and then like heat it, like it was a Sicilian bowl. The Sicilian bowl. So that one to me sounds more horrifying than any of the other ones. Um, because one, I'm claustrophobic. Um, two, I hate heat. Um it's part of the reason why I hate Louisiana. Um, there, I got my Louisiana, not joking today. Um, but but there was another one, wasn't there, where it had something to do with a rat. Like they would take like a rat and put it on your stomach and then like put something on it so the rat had to like chew its way through you. Like, is that was that was that a real thing?

SPEAKER_06 10:40

Yeah, it is, yeah. It's torture by rats. So basically, what they would do is they would place two to three rats on your stomach, uh-huh, put a cage over top of them, strap you and the cage to the table, and light it on fire.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

But the person would be dead by then, right?

SPEAKER_06 10:57

Like, no, no, no, because rats chew relatively slowly, they don't chew very quickly, right? And it's gonna take a little bit for them to get through the skin layers, the muscle, and then get into the organs, and at that point, you're just gonna slowly bleed to death.

Tim Nealon 11:15

Yeah, I mean, that sounds like torture, like the guillotine, that really doesn't sound like torture to me. That's just like quick and painless, even though I have heard have you heard those stories where like after your head's cut off, like you're actually able to like see and realize what's going on for like 15 seconds or after your head's cut off.

SPEAKER_05 11:31

Yep.

Tim Nealon 11:32

I think that would that would almost be torture. But the the the rat thing or the what do you call it, the Sicilian bull? Yes, like those to me sound like that is torturous.

unknown 11:45

Okay.

Tim Nealon 11:46

So I'm actually gonna ask the guys back there, Carter Paul. Like, if uh, and I know you can't see him, but you'll be able to see him in the episode. Um, so if you had to be tortured, or actually, what form of torture sounds the most extreme to you is in like I'll do anyone but that one.

SPEAKER_04 12:03

Um, one of those big plexiglass things, like you know, like the when people go in and try to catch like all the dollar bills, but it but but that that type of plexiglass case, but with gnats or mosquitoes. That that sounds horrible. I thought about this for a while. But you're but you're gonna live. But but I think it's gonna be so intense that like you start like clawing at like your eyes, it's they're inside your ears, like it feels like they're inside your brain. Right. And then like I think you might just like mutilate yourself to death. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

That all right, yeah. Paul. So I don't know if this is a real thing, but when I was a kid, somebody told me that uh the Chinese used to do this thing there where they would tie people, you know, like so, and then they would plant bamboo under them because bamboo goes grows so damn fast, it would just grow up into your body and slowly kill you. Really? And that sounds awful. Kim, have you ever heard of that one?

SPEAKER_06 12:56

I have not, but it it sounds almost being like put on a spire, but much slowly, much more slowly.

Tim Nealon 13:05

So, what do you mean put on a spire?

SPEAKER_06 13:07

Um, so we have quite a few of them around the museum. Um basically it's just a sharpened stick and it is shoved up and out your mouth.

Tim Nealon 13:18

Um, and when you say shoved up, are you referring to like your butt?

SPEAKER_05 13:22

Yep.

Tim Nealon 13:23

Okay. Um so the the medieval torture museum itself, like what what is the goal of your museum? You know, what when people come to you, like what are you hoping that that they learn or they leave uh maybe changed a little bit? Like what what what exactly is the goal?

SPEAKER_06 13:42

The biggest goal is really just to show the world that these things did happen.

SPEAKER_07 13:48

Right.

SPEAKER_06 13:49

And that, you know, this is kind of where our current judicial system started and how we have refined it over the years. But it's really just getting that history out and showing the world that, you know, these things aren't being forgotten.

SPEAKER_07 14:07

Right.

SPEAKER_06 14:07

These things are can going to continue to be told as long as places like us are around.

Tim Nealon 14:14

So, I mean, what do you think it it says about humanity that we don't do this kind of stuff anymore? You know, I I I I I think that means that humanity's heading in the right direction. Um maybe.

SPEAKER_06 14:25

I think slowly we are getting there, definitely. Um, but you know, evolution. It's just gonna take time. Um, but yeah, at least we're not, you know, burning people at the stake because we think they're a witch.

Tim Nealon 14:42

Yeah, I mean, that was definitely not a good thing. Um, but you know, when we look at today's society, so so now I'm like now I'm like gonna my brain's gonna start doing that thing again where I just like blah. So like today's form of punishment is we just essentially, you know, I know there's different forms of it, but the the the one most people are familiar with is we're just gonna stick you in jail, right? Yeah, like isn't that a form of torture itself? Like, especially especially people who get put in solitary confinement. You know, it's been shown that like you start to lose your mind within days. Um, so was that really any better than making a mouse chew its way through your stomach? I would almost rather the mouse chew its way through my stomach and I just get it over with than sit in solitary confinement for years.

SPEAKER_06 15:27

I mean, for most people, yeah, that would be a much easier way to go. Right. But for other people, you know, they would just rather be in solitary. It's just it's different for everybody.

Tim Nealon 15:41

Well, do you think it's not so much that we don't torture people anymore? It's just we have like a sanitized version of torture, I guess what I'm getting at. Like, you know, to say I put somebody in solitary confinement, like that doesn't sound that bad, right? Especially if you've never been put into solitary confinement before. Uh, the only person I know that's been put in solitary confinement before, and I know they're already waiting, um, is Paul. Um, so a long time ago, Paul, what'd you do? You got a DUI and you tried to fight the cop, and then when you got to jail, it was like your stepdad was there or something. You tried to fight him and they they threw him in uh the cell holding like something.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

We've all made mistakes, Tim. I uh I just thought they were all being a little lippy for my liking, you know?

Tim Nealon 16:23

Yeah, so Paul got put in solitary confinement. So he did say that it was it was rough. Um, but I feel like that's just our way of like still torturing people and just getting away with it.

SPEAKER_04 16:33

Yeah, you know what I mean?

Tim Nealon 16:34

Because because like we're you're not like putting them in a burning metal bull anymore, but you're you're still essentially destroying their mind, torturing them in another way. Paul's never been the same. Um we wasn't very good to start with, to be fair. That's true. You think I made that up? That was a true story. Um my god.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

I have a question. Yeah. Who uh what which culture really started the torture? Was it the French, the British?

SPEAKER_06 17:07

Honestly, um, I believe it was the British that started it, but the French really took off with it.

Tim Nealon 17:15

Now, when you say took off with it, what does that mean?

SPEAKER_06 17:19

Um they kind of like broadened it, made it a bit more mainstream, so to speak. Um, but overall, yeah, they really did the vast majority of the torture, but they did it a quick way. 90% of the time, they used the guillotine.

Tim Nealon 17:37

Yeah, because yeah, that's what I was gonna say. A lot of the the the French stuff that I'm familiar with is you know, the guillotine. Because who was it, like uh Marie Antoinette or something, and like her husband, and like the all the famous beheadings that were they were just beheading everybody back then. Um and I think that in like I said, in that case, I don't really look at the guillotine as torture. I mean, maybe the moments leading up to being taken to the guillotine would be a form of torture or torment or something like that. Um, but I'm what I'm interested in is the most depraved methods of torture because I know that's what our audience is gonna be looking

Bloody Eagle And Other Horrors

Tim Nealon 18:09

forward to. They're gonna be like, ah, I already know about that one. Like, so Kim, like, what are some ways of torturing people that most people probably don't even know about, but were particularly gruesome?

SPEAKER_06 18:23

The most gruesome and the what I think is the rarest known is the bloody eagle.

Tim Nealon 18:30

I think I know what this is this is okay, yeah. Go ahead and explain it to the audience. I think I know what this is.

SPEAKER_06 18:35

So um, so the bloody eagle, you would be strapped down on your stomach, your back would be cut open, your ribs would be broken off of the spine and flared out, right? Your lungs will be pulled out and spread out like wings.

Tim Nealon 18:53

So it's like spashcocking a human almost.

SPEAKER_06 18:55

Basically, yeah.

Tim Nealon 18:57

But wouldn't the person essentially go into shock? Like, like, so like because I imagine, like, especially you know, back then there's no you know, anesthesia or anything like that, you know, they start cutting into your back and doing these things. Isn't the person just gonna pass out?

SPEAKER_06 19:10

Or that that's what I thought as well. But doing like more reading and research into it, that's not what happened. They would black out at the beginning, uh-huh, but they would eventually wake up, and at that point, their lungs are now being impaled by their ribs and they are slowly suffocating.

Tim Nealon 19:29

Yay! Um, that's the way I want to go, guys. Like, like when the time comes, like spatchcock me. Um like that. Noted. So if I remember correctly, wasn't that something that, like, at least in cult pop pop culture, anyways, wasn't that something that's mostly associated with like Viking cultures and stuff like that, or was that more widespread?

SPEAKER_06 19:50

Um, that was more of the Viking, Northern European kind of method.

Tim Nealon 19:56

So, what does that say about the Vikings?

SPEAKER_06 19:59

It's it's almost like they were very brutal creatures, very brutal.

Tim Nealon 20:02

Yeah, I almost want to like play psychologist here for a moment and be like, you know, what is wrong with the person? Because at some point they were sitting around a table, right? Or like a council, and they're like, hey, this guy, you know, Bob over here is really being a jerk, and we need to devise. And I know it sounds like I'm trying to be funny, but I'm being serious. Like, we need to devise a way that like we're just totally fucking up Paul or not, Paul. See, like you pop in mind, Bob, we're totally gonna fuck up Bob, but we need like a new way to do it. And some guy stands up and is like, hey, I know, like we should cut open his back and like break his ribs. Like, in my mind, I'm like, okay, that's that's pretty gruesome, and that's pretty far. But then this other guy stands up, he's like, you know what would make this even better if we pull out his lungs and make him look like wings. Like, what does that say about a person? Like that, because I don't even know if I could come up with that.

SPEAKER_06 20:57

I mean, maybe I think like for yeah, I think for most, it was more of just like wanting to make that statement. Don't mess with us, because if you do, this is what's gonna happen.

Tim Nealon 21:08

Yeah, but you could just chop their head off. I think that's gonna be enough warning for most people. Like, if you fuck with us, we're gonna chop your head off, and we'll be like, oh shit, I don't want my head cut off.

SPEAKER_06 21:17

Um, or do you think obviously that it works?

Tim Nealon 21:21

Well, so so so it seems like torture, it it's almost like the people are more afraid of the pain or what they're experiencing during the torture than they are of death itself.

SPEAKER_06 21:33

Yes.

Tim Nealon 21:34

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. So because yeah, it was like if you really want to frighten people off, like, yeah, like just raid a village, and you know, I can't can I say I don't know. Like bleep it. Yeah, we'll bleep that. But I mean, that's what they did back then. Like, they would raid villages and they would like the women and you know, kill all the men and everything. Like, that would be enough for me to be like, okay, I don't want to fuck with these guys. But then they're like, hey, you know how we could take up a level. Um, bloody eagle. Like that just sounds and I'm not making fun of or for anything like that. You know what I mean? Because you're gonna bleep the word out. You you know that I mean this with like respect, but it's like, what more do you have to do to scare people? Um, because I wouldn't want that happening to my village, and then I would just give them the gold or whatever it is they wanted. Um, is that what Vikings cared about? Gold? I don't know. Yeah, the guys back there are looking confused today. It's their first time doing a podcast in about five weeks too, so they're a little bit off their game. You know, the like, how did you get wrapped up in this medieval torture museum, Kim? Is this something that you're like, man, like if I could do anything for a living, it would be working around torture devices. Or like, how did that happen?

SPEAKER_06 22:48

I am a museum lover. I've been going to them my entire life. It's one of my fun things. Um, and I saw a position available, and I was like, that sounds interesting, and I have loved every single day of it.

Tim Nealon 23:05

I mean, I imagine it is interesting because you probably get being in Los Angeles, you probably get people coming in from all over the world to see um all the torture devices and everything like that. And just for curiosity's sake, like like how many people are coming per day, like on average, you know, or a ballpark. Like, is it a is there a lot of people interested in this?

SPEAKER_06 23:24

Or um on average, I would say we get anywhere between 80 and 100 people. Right. Just you know, weekends we're definitely a lot busier than we are during the week, um, during holidays, super busy.

SPEAKER_08 23:38

Right.

SPEAKER_06 23:39

Um, but yeah, it's most of the people that come in, they're coming specifically for this museum.

Tim Nealon 23:48

Right. Now the next question is do you guys have a gift shop? Because like we do. Because I'm like, do you sell torture devices in the gift shop?

SPEAKER_06 23:59

Um well, um, not so much torture devices. Torture condoms, yes, but not torture devices.

Tim Nealon 24:07

Did you say torture condoms?

SPEAKER_06 24:09

Torture condoms.

Tim Nealon 24:11

Um well, you know I'm gonna ask. Uh actually, Paul's getting ready. Paul has it ready to go.

SPEAKER_04 24:16

Well, I was gonna say the condoms are already torture. So yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:20

Low-hanging fruit. Um, no, these ones are spiked and studded.

Tim Nealon 24:25

Oh.

SPEAKER_06 24:26

So all right.

Tim Nealon 24:28

So I'm gonna try to ask this question without without being trying to be funny. I'm gonna try to be serious. So why would you ever need a condom that has spikes on it?

SPEAKER_06 24:40

Honestly, no clue.

Tim Nealon 24:43

Do people buy them?

SPEAKER_06 24:45

Yes, actually, they are our number one seller.

Tim Nealon 24:48

No shit. Yeah, there's a lot of men out there that hate their wives. Like, I don't, you know, I'm not a woman and I don't have those one parts, but I can't imagine that that would feel good. Like, are they like metal?

SPEAKER_06 25:00

Or is it just no, they're they're regular condoms, they're just spiked and studded.

Tim Nealon 25:06

Like with like plastic, like the condom material creates a spike.

SPEAKER_06 25:10

Yes.

Tim Nealon 25:11

All right, so I'm gonna leave that there. Um, because I'm gonna get myself in a lot of trouble with YouTube and maybe my wife if I keep going with this. Um nah, she won't care. Now, now, do kids come into the museum as well?

SPEAKER_06 25:25

We do, we have a lot of kids come in.

Tim Nealon 25:27

Right. And parents are okay with this, Les in like is is your is your museum kit appropriate, I guess is what I'm getting at.

SPEAKER_06 25:36

Our museum isn't recommended for anyone under the age of 18. However, there are a lot of kids, especially anywhere between the ages of eight and thirteen that I've noticed, right, that are very interested in it.

SPEAKER_07 25:51

Right.

SPEAKER_06 25:51

Um, and I think that's primarily because, you know, horror movies, stuff like that, they're like, oh, this looks fun, this looks cool, and then they go down and they realize like what actually they're seeing, and it helps them increase their knowledge of history, right? Which I think is awesome.

Tim Nealon 26:10

Yeah, I I I think it'd be very eye-opening because you know, a lot of people when they hear the word torture, you know, they they they picture one thing, you know, it's usually something that they've seen on TV, like you said, but to actually go into a location that has these devices, is that even the right word? Devices, um, and actually see them, especially if they've been used on people before. I imagine that would do something, you know, to your brain as far as like, wow, this is this is real. And by the way, this is pretty fucked up. Um but cool at the same time. Also in my head, I'm wondering what's going on in the eight to 13 year olds' minds today, where they're like, this is awesome. Because like they're probably gonna go home and like catch birds and stuff and torture them. I think. I think that uh I think maybe you guys are creating the next generation of serial killers with your museum. Um I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Um, but no, I imagine that. Like, you know, he like because I I I might have been that kid where if I saw a torture device, I might have gone home and tried to build it myself. And I know you think I'm being and you don't think I'm you think I'm being funny back there, guys, but ask my mom. Like she'll tell you, she'll be like, yeah, I totally could have seen Tim trying to like go down to the wood shop and like make his own uh I I didn't I wasn't a welder, but like my own maple maiden. Um and then like no, I like cats. I was gonna say put a cat in it. I don't know, like a neighbor kid or something. I might have tried that. Um I don't know where I'm going with this. Um everyone needs a hobby. No, I I did some I did some bad things when I was a kid. You know, like uh I was really good at science. So I got I was actually smarter than my science teacher. So part of the semester I actually got to teach my science class. And we had these big seed pods that were really spiky. I don't know if you guys ever seen those. And I yeah, and I gave them to this, I gave this kid I didn't like in class. I actually gave it to him. Like I put it in his hand, and then I smashed his fucking hands together. And I was like, take that. Uh I'm not proud of that. Um, but that does hint to me that maybe I'd be really good at torturing people.

SPEAKER_04 28:22

Um Kim, I think you found your new spokesman for the museum.

Tim Nealon 28:26

Yeah. Come on down. That's the medieval torture museum. Get your torture on. Uh, join us between eight and four. I'm working on my radio voice. So, you know, we we talked a little bit about the devices and you know, the museum and stuff like

Executioners Haunted Objects And Ethics

Tim Nealon 28:43

that. But, you know, what can you tell us about the people that were actually doing the torturing? Like, was it typically, you know, you mentioned this is part of like the justice system or whatever. Was it typically like law enforcement? Or was it like because you you see the movies where like, and I know it's not torture, but like when they did the beheadings, like the guy with the black hood comes out and like you know, chops their head off. Were were there special lies torturers back then or um they were called executioners?

SPEAKER_06 29:11

Um yes. Um basically they were the henchmen for the judges.

SPEAKER_07 29:17

Right.

SPEAKER_06 29:18

Or for the kings or whoever was ordering the torture, right? They were basically the fall guys for everything.

Tim Nealon 29:28

Now, was this a highly sought after sought after position? Or no. So you didn't want to be the executioner. No, huh.

SPEAKER_04 29:38

I is that why they wore the masks?

SPEAKER_06 29:41

Yeah, most of them wore the mask because they didn't want the village or the town to know who they were.

Tim Nealon 29:48

The other thing I noticed about executioners is that they never were sh wore shirts. Like in the movies.

SPEAKER_07 29:56

Well, in the movies, yeah.

Tim Nealon 29:58

It's it's true. Like maybe the guy who cut off Ned Stark's head, I think maybe he had a shirt on. Um, but they all like did it like topless.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

I don't watch those kind of movies, Tim.

Tim Nealon 30:08

I don't know. Well, it's not just movies. No, it was like it was uh Game of Thrones. Like there was lots of people getting their heads cut off in Game of Thrones, and I think that I think they were mostly clothes, yeah. Which is odd for that show. Yeah, seriously. Um now the other part that that that I wanted to touch on a little bit, you know, because we are a ghost story company, and I know that there are people out there in the paranormal world. Actually, we just talked to a bunch of them at Paracon last week that believe that objects can be haunted. So I was kind of curious to know if in your museum any of these objects create hauntings, or maybe they have a ghost attached to them or something. Have you ever had a reason to suspect that might be happening there?

SPEAKER_06 30:55

I personally cannot know. Um, but is that probable? Absolutely. Right. I followed ghost things myself and have for a very long time. Right. And I know that deaths and trauma uh traumatic instances can imprint to leave that on these objects, and with these objects being real and being used in that way, it it's definitely possible. Yeah.

Tim Nealon 31:26

So do you know of any ghostly happenings in your museum?

SPEAKER_06 31:31

Um, in the museum, no. In Hollywood in general, yes.

Tim Nealon 31:35

Oh, well, yeah, we we actually run ghost tours in Hollywood. Um I hate Hollywood. Um, do you like Hollywood, Kim?

SPEAKER_05 31:44

I I do, yeah.

Tim Nealon 31:46

Okay, so you don't take it personal because the reality is I'm just some dipshit in Louisiana. So no ghosts in the museum. That's unfortunate. I was really hoping there'd be some ghosts there like reenacting their their torturous last moments or like you know, screams of agony coming from the other part of the museum or something like that.

SPEAKER_06 32:02

But I mean, uh, it is possible. Like I I'm not here after 11 p.m.

SPEAKER_07 32:09

Right.

SPEAKER_06 32:10

So a lot of stuff can happen in some nine hours that no one's in the building.

SPEAKER_07 32:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 32:16

Um I haven't seen anything as of yet, but I mean I'm always keeping my eyes open.

Tim Nealon 32:23

Have you tried to do anything like EVP sessions or anything like that there?

SPEAKER_06 32:27

I have not, um, but we do have cameras recording 24 hours a day. Yeah. So I watch them on occasion just to see if we catch anything.

Tim Nealon 32:37

Yeah. I think you have ghosts there, Kim. I think you just don't know it. There has to be ghosts there. Like if somebody got killed, like, so what is one of the real torture devices that you have there that was actually used on people?

SPEAKER_06 32:48

Aside from the guillotine, yeah. Um, we have several axes, um, a mace, um, a bunch of um rakes and two racks.

Tim Nealon 32:59

What's a rack? Is that the thing where they stretch you out?

SPEAKER_06 33:02

Um, that's the one where you're locked onto it and they slowly pull it, yeah, pull the ropes and stretch you.

Tim Nealon 33:10

Oh my god, I bet that felt so good. Um like at first, like when they first did it, not like as they continued. Um I haven't been to a chiropractor in like a two years. I really need to go to a chiropractor, and I feel like like one of those might be able to help me out. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:26

Oh yeah.

Tim Nealon 33:26

And I might get taller too. I'm actually pretty short. Um I'm like 5'9, 5'10, something like that. I don't know. I would like to be Paul's over there fucking bragging all the time about oh, he's 6'2 and all this shit. And I'm like, fuck you, Paul. And he has really great hair too. And I get jealous of that very often because like I've lost most of mine. So I'm like, fuck you, Paul. Um, but if I could get put on one of those and make if I can get to at least six two, then I could at least look at Paul in the eyes and say, like, fuck you in your hair. Um, I have dandruff if that makes you feel better. No, it doesn't. It doesn't. I would take the dandruff too if I had to. I don't care. Um no. Um I'm um I apologize for all of this.

SPEAKER_04 34:15

I've got like a logistical question.

Tim Nealon 34:17

Yeah, let's hear it.

SPEAKER_04 34:18

Uh, so yeah, these act the devices that you know you guys can authenticate of being real. I imagine you know, these medieval objects, how what's the shipping like on that? How do you get that overseas to America and uh across borders and such?

SPEAKER_06 34:34

Uh maybe they're American. That I'm not a hundred percent sure of. Um, I know that they came in very large frates.

SPEAKER_07 34:43

Right.

SPEAKER_06 34:45

But I'm assuming got put on carriers and sent and probably cost a lot of money through customs.

Tim Nealon 34:53

I was gonna say that's how most of these like weird movies start. It's like there's a large container being shipped from overseas that has to go through customs and then it gets delivered, and then you have to open it with a crowbar, and then like it triggers some curse, and then I think is that what you're getting at?

SPEAKER_04 35:09

Like, or were you just No, I mean that that's but that that does like it sounds very Indiana Jones-esque.

Tim Nealon 35:14

Yeah, or like the mummy or something, right? Right. Like, but I don't know. Um so you know, if if you had to pick any way of torture that you had to go out, Kim, which one would you pick?

SPEAKER_06 35:28

The Iron Maiden.

Tim Nealon 35:30

Really?

SPEAKER_06 35:31

Yeah.

Tim Nealon 35:32

Why? Like because you could that that takes a while, right?

SPEAKER_06 35:36

It does take a while, but you don't see it coming.

Tim Nealon 35:39

I also noticed that you answered me very quickly. Um like you didn't even have to think about that. Um what about you guys back there?

SPEAKER_04 35:52

I mean, if I were to choose one, I probably just the guillotine. Just yeah, get it over with some torture. Yeah, you can't you can't choose the guillotine because that's too quick. Uh then I don't know, probably the what what was it, the the stretching one? The the rack? The rack? The rack, yeah, yeah. Because like you said, like for the first like minute or so, I was like, oh, this is nice. Yeah. And then yeah, then I I don't I don't I don't like the idea of being tortured. It's a hard thing to answer.

Tim Nealon 36:21

Yeah, I I don't either. But so before we move on to Paul's answer, like so Paul's is waterboarding. Oh, we we could do that right now. Like get some serious numbers on YouTube. Yeah, the so the the rack itself, like would it literally like eventually tear them like in two, or would it like because I've seen like the I've seen like the the horse version of it, right? Where they would kind of like tie a limb to four horses and make them run, and your your limbs would come off, but that's not the same thing as the rack.

SPEAKER_06 36:48

Like um, there actually is a rack that does that as well. Um, and then the most common rack is just the flat one. You're pulled from both ends, and then yeah, eventually you do get ripped in half.

Tim Nealon 37:01

Like, is it like ripped apart like at your torso, or do you your like arms and legs just get pulled off?

SPEAKER_06 37:06

It it was a give and take.

Tim Nealon 37:08

Right? Shit.

SPEAKER_06 37:09

It was different for every person.

Tim Nealon 37:12

Hmm. All right, Paul.

SPEAKER_00 37:14

How are you being tortured? Well, I've opted for the slow, torturous death of being a married man, so that oh, come on. You love your wife. I do so um I I think I'm going with the rat. The rat? Yeah, because that seems altruistic, you know. At least I'm feeding an animal in the process of my death.

Tim Nealon 37:31

That's true.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

A generous dire.

Tim Nealon 37:36

I I I don't know which one I guess I'm the last one to go. Um I'm definitely not doing the Sicilian bull. Fuck that. Um I don't know. I don't know. Maybe maybe maybe the eagle one.

SPEAKER_05 37:52

The bloody eagle.

Tim Nealon 37:52

Yeah, the bloody eagle. And and here's why. Like, I want to be remembered. And I really haven't done much with my life that would make anybody remember me. But I feel that like if you've came across my body like on Bourbon Street, like a bloody eagle, assuming they were able to identify me, I think I would at least make the newspaper.

SPEAKER_04 38:14

I think that's fair.

Tim Nealon 38:15

Yeah. Tim Neal and found sprout out on Bourbon Street, bloody eagle, ribs, lungs. Um, and I would be I'd be a bald eagle. A bloody bald eagle. See? Um no, I I no, I I I don't know. I th I think I just I would just run. I would not let myself be caught.

SPEAKER_04 38:37

Do you think with the rack that they were, you know, if if they were getting off to this this torture thing, uh, I'd I'd like to assume that, or I assume that many of these sadistic folks were enjoying it to an extent. Do you think they were taking like side bets? Because if the rack destroys you and it every person's different, do you think they were taking side bets to see, like, ooh, maybe this time this person's gonna go all in equal fours, or no, the the left side's gonna go first, or the right side and they're gonna take little side bets on it?

Tim Nealon 39:03

Like maybe like how long the person would last, like, yeah, or just how they would be dismembered. I imagine so. Um, there's probably like a version of the mob back then that was, you know, running the the gambling for that. Do you know of anything like that, Kim?

SPEAKER_06 39:20

Like I I don't know of anything like that, but it it's highly unlike it's highly likely, honestly. Um, because you know, these guys were trying to make money, get their gold wherever they could.

Tim Nealon 39:34

Right. So, you know, we're talking about medieval torture, obviously. Um like does your does your museum talk about modern day torture at all?

SPEAKER_06 39:46

We do. We actually we have a gallows set up, um, and we also have two different electric chairs.

Tim Nealon 39:53

Oh, like real ones that have been used?

SPEAKER_06 39:56

Yes.

Tim Nealon 39:57

Okay, so you have ghosts, you just don't know it. If you if actually, guys, screw buying like a I want an electric chair up here. Like around that's the one I'll do the podcast from. There you go. This chair makes me look chubby anyway, so like I need a new seat. Um, so where do you buy an electric chair?

SPEAKER_06 40:20

I would assume a person that's closing and no longer needs it.

Tim Nealon 40:24

Yeah, we can make one.

SPEAKER_06 40:27

Yeah.

Tim Nealon 40:28

I could test it out. That so every time you get a performance improvement plan at Go City Tours, um, if after 30 days you're not meeting the requirements, you get hooked up to the electric chair. Um, you know, we we kind of did a little bit of torture the other day on Carter. Um so we were messing around with this idea for a new podcast, and we're calling it Conspiracy Court. Um, so if you're listening to this episode and you haven't seen Conspiracy Court yet, keep an eye out for it. But long story short, Carter and another woman who work here were presenting their arguments for a conspiracy theory for and against the conspiracy theory. In this case, it was Hillary Clinton um looking for giants in Iraq, and that's why she started the Iraq War. Correct. Now, Carter lost because he's a shitty attorney. And uh ChatGBT is a shitty attorney. Actually, I'll be honest. I'll be honest, you should have won.

SPEAKER_04 41:19

That's what I'm saying. Like you should have won. It was like it was rigged.

Tim Nealon 41:23

Yeah. And so Carter had to eat ghost peppers as his punishment, which is kind of a torture because that's like not quick. So get this, and I am not admitting any liability in this whatsoever. Um, but Carter ended up in the hospital. Um, and it absolutely was not because of the ghost peppers. It was, it was, it was several days later. Yeah, we we had gone to Pennsylvania and back. Yeah, he had a pre-existing condition. I want to make that very clear.

SPEAKER_04 41:54

But yeah, it it truly is like a form of torture because you know, you can get past the the the mouth spice and pain. Yeah, you know, that's just it's it's almost like when when it starts subsiding a little bit, it's almost kind of like a high.

Tim Nealon 42:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:05

Um, but the the rest, it's like the next 12 hours, it just kind of sits in like your chest and your stomach and just it feels like you gave yourself food poisoning.

SPEAKER_07 42:14

Right.

SPEAKER_04 42:14

And yeah, two of those bad boys did not sit well, had a fun time at the airport the next morning.

Tim Nealon 42:20

Oh yeah. I forgot that they had to fly the next day. Well, I think you got off easy because you were actually supposed to eat three, yes, yeah, and you and you got off the hook with only two, which I'm okay with.

SPEAKER_00 42:33

Um I'm not.

SPEAKER_04 42:35

Well, first off, it was originally just one, and then Paul from the the back screams to Kaylee, it should be three.

Tim Nealon 42:43

So these guys have been best friends for like most of their life. I just want to throw that out there, too. They're Paul's trying to kill Carter so his family can sue me. Um, they're good, they'll go after Paul first. All right, good. I don't have anything. Um so you know, uh now the mid the medieval torture museum that that you're currently at is in Los Angeles, but there are there are a couple other ones too as well, right?

Modern Displays Locations And Farewell

SPEAKER_06 43:08

Yeah, we have one in Chicago and our original one is in St. Augustine and historic St. Augustine.

Tim Nealon 43:17

Right. Um now do people often I don't know how the right the right way to ask this. So you know, we're a ghost tour company, right? And you know, there are certain cities that we we are in where people go there almost to take a ghost store because like you know, Savannah, Georgia, New Orleans or anything like that. Um now St. Augustine, I can picture a medieval museum there. But Chicago, that's like uh, or even Los Angeles, like those are modern cities. Um like so, so like what what's the what's the theme there in Los Angeles or even Chicago, where it's like come to Chicago, watch the Black Hawk slues, uh, visit the medieval torture museum. Like How does that work?

SPEAKER_06 44:01

Um, I think for Chicago it's more of like that whole mobster background. Um kind of the same for LA. LA especially Hollywood has so much history. Um, especially when you go back to the Black Dahlia, uh-huh, which is not far from where we're located. Uh-huh. Um a lot of serial killers, the Manson killer uh killings, like all of that. Right. Very close to where we're located.

Tim Nealon 44:36

So Chicago, you brought up the idea of the mob, and that so the mob actually was known for torturing people. Um, uh, like a lot of people think that it was just like shootouts in the street or whatever, but when they had the opportunity to, you know, torture somebody from a competing, you know, family or or whatever, they did it. But I think that was more like you're telling me information, right? Or was it like like kind of like you said earlier, like we're gonna use you an ex as an example. Like, how do you do you know much about how the mob utilized torture to accomplish their wonderful deeds?

SPEAKER_06 45:09

I think most of the families, what they would do, um, they had instead of executioners, they had enforcers.

SPEAKER_07 45:16

Right.

SPEAKER_06 45:17

And they were the ones that would go to these people that were either stealing from them or owed them money or you know, whatever it was, and would cut off fingers, yeah, cut off their tongues, like they all they had their own special like twist on how they wanted to torture these people, and that's right seen all throughout history.

Tim Nealon 45:42

Yeah, yeah. I I I actually like the mob. Like, like I would like to be a part of the mob, actually. Um, I'm not Italian, I can't do that. Paul is, yeah. Paul is Paul, you could get me in. Um, I'll talk to my guy. All right, sounds good. Um, I don't know that no, I'm just kidding. I don't really want to be part of the mob because I don't like owing anybody favors. Um, I don't like doing things for people. Um now, Los Angeles, you know, I don't think you guys really have the mob history there, but um, I think one of the biggest ways, like when I think of Los Angeles and torture, I think of the fact that Los Angeles is filled with mostly insufferable people. Um, and that's not you, Kim. Like you're great, you're sitting here right now, um, and we're talking, so we're friends. But would you would you agree with that? Like, Los Angeles is mostly like insufferable people, that even just talking to them is kind of torture.

SPEAKER_06 46:36

I would agree with that. Oh my god, thank God.

Tim Nealon 46:38

I was hoping I wouldn't piss you off.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

I have a medieval torture question. What is it that these people were doing that was so bad that that they felt the need to do these horrible things to them? What crimes were committed? You're talking about like in medieval times. Yes, in medieval times, you know, the the theme of the podcast.

unknown 46:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 46:56

Um, most of the people that were being tortured, they were being accused of murder, of things that were just not okay. Um, stealing stuff like that. They would get like the tiny torture, they would get put on you know, in the Times Square with their heads in the stocks, and that was about it.

Tim Nealon 47:18

Tiny torture, that's what we call Tyler.

SPEAKER_06 47:22

But yeah, most of the time this torture was done upon people who were doing very bad things. It wasn't for the petty crimes.

Tim Nealon 47:31

Well, a lot of it was also just like at a high governmental level, too, is in like, you know, like like you know, you brought up France earlier, like the French Revolution and stuff. It was essentially like like their way of of resetting the entire country, like that, because that's what the French Revolution did. Like, and that was a period of a lot of torturous activity. You know, we talked about the beheadings and stuff like that, but there was way more than that going on. And it was almost like the the the new government of France was essentially sending a message to the uh entire country, like, hey, this is the way it's gonna be going forward. And if you don't like it, we're gonna chop off your head. We're gonna uh I don't know what are some other ways French people torture you. I mean, I guess it's kind of similar to the way Los Angeles people torture you, but um, yeah, there was a lot of that going on back then. I, you know, and I don't remember any specifics, but I do remember you reading a book, I think it was on Thomas Paine. Was it Thomas Paine? And he was talking about some of the things that would happen in the French prisons along around that time. And it was it was actually pretty horrific. Um, you know, even just you know, I I know everybody most people associate torture with like these violent acts, but sometimes the torture itself was just the conditions that these people were kept in. You know, these these dungeons where everybody was sick, it was always wet, it was always cold, you know, no food. I mean, that that that is torture. Um, it doesn't have to be, you know, putting a spike in your butt and taking it up through your mouth. Um, it could be something like that. Um by the way, when they put the that was called a what do you call that? The one where the spire.

SPEAKER_06 49:05

A spire, yeah.

Tim Nealon 49:06

So you know like how they would cut somebody's head off and like mount the head on a spike and like put it like did they ever do that with the spired people? Like yes, they did. Yeah. See, now that would that would cut down on business, I think. Um like because if like who wants to go to a town where there's people inspired posted everywhere? Like I would lose my appetite. I imagine the restaurants in those areas probably didn't do very well. Well, at least you know it's a safe place. That's true. The tough on crime, tough on crime. Um I heard that's what's nah. I'm not gonna make the joke again. I I ripped on Los Angeles enough. By the way, Los Angeles, I love you. I really do. I'm just I'm just in a feisty mood today. Um It's nice that you shit on the other LA for once. You know, Tool has that song Anima. You know, the song Anima, like uh it's it's essentially saying, like, I hope Los Angeles falls into the ocean. And every time they say LA in that song, I imagine that LA stands for Louisiana. And I'm like, oh, I wish Louisiana would fall off into the Gulf. I really did not wish that, but it's on its way. Yeah, yeah, I really don't wish that, but you know, in my head, like sometimes I'm like, man, I wish Louisiana would just fall into the Gulf.

SPEAKER_04 50:21

Well, I think we're losing like a football field like of land every hour or something like that. So your wish is coming true.

Tim Nealon 50:27

No, I well, we gotta build it back up. That's the part. So, all right, we're not gonna get into this on the on this podcast. I feel like I've wasted enough of Kim's time ranting about things I don't like.

SPEAKER_04 50:40

Um Was there anything unique about the Spanish Inquisition that when it comes to torture?

SPEAKER_06 50:47

Not really. That's um where the Stacilian bowl was used, probably the most. Um, there were different variations. Um, a lot of them um when you're in it being burned and you're screaming, the way that the holes are built, it makes it sound like it's music coming out of it.

Tim Nealon 51:08

Oh, yeah. I did read that. Like it's like it's nostrils and stuff. Like so the person's screaming and it manipulates the scream, so it almost makes it sound like the bull. Like you said, it's like singing or something.

SPEAKER_07 51:18

Singing. Yep.

Tim Nealon 51:20

Nice. Okay. I still don't that's still is like the worst one to me. I couldn't, I could not because we have one here.

SPEAKER_06 51:28

Was it ever was to actually get into it?

Tim Nealon 51:30

Was it used?

SPEAKER_06 51:32

Uh, I don't believe that one is used. I think that one is a replica, but yeah, it it's fully functional. You can open the door, you can get into it.

Tim Nealon 51:41

Wow, yeah, yeah. I'm not doing that. Um, because like if you think about it, so like the interior is metal too. So, like, as you're burning, that would mean like your skin is like coming off and like sticking to the inside and like all this stuff, and like like that just sounds god awful. I think that's why I picked the bloody eagle or whatever it's called, because I know that sounds horrific, but honest to god, the bloody eagle sounds a whole lot better than me than than that. I don't know why. I just don't like heat. Plus, the bloody eagle, if it was Vikings, it'd be cold. I like the cold. Um, you know, I I was sitting here thinking about other famous, you know, torture devices and stuff like that. I think we skipped over the most the the most important one, the one that's most near and dear to Paul's heart, which is the crucifix. Um you know, because that's how they they tortured people during those times as well. Like Jesus was nailed to a cross, right? Which is a that's a form of torture, wasn't it? It was like, you know, you you just hang there till you die. Um pretty much so. Do you have any crucifixes there?

SPEAKER_06 52:45

We don't.

Tim Nealon 52:46

No. No, but yeah, I guess I I'm assuming that they would have cleaned the devices beforehand, maybe. Somebody had to get the bones out of the bull, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 52:54

Well, yeah. But other otherwise, the guillotines, no, they stayed bloody.

Tim Nealon 53:02

Well, back then they didn't even realize germs were a thing. Like even during the Civil War and stuff, like they still weren't really aware that you know bacteria and viruses and all that stuff even existed and were causing these things. So back then it would have just been cleaning it up from like an aesthetic standpoint. It wouldn't have been like they're trying to sanitize it because they wouldn't even have known that's a thing.

SPEAKER_04 53:21

But even if you were, like you're about to chop someone's head off. It's you're worried about infection.

SPEAKER_00 53:25

Yeah. Well, it's like they swab the person's arm before they give them a lethal injection now. Well, that's because we Yeah, that's true.

Tim Nealon 53:31

That's kind of silly. We gotta make sure you don't get an infection in the night in the next five minutes before you die. Um all right, Kim. Um, so you know, if people wanted to find out more about the the medieval torture museum, I'm I'm I know you guys have a website and stuff like that, but what it what is the website?

SPEAKER_06 53:52

Um the website is MTM Um Museum, right? LA.

Tim Nealon 54:00

And so the LA, Chicago, St. Augustine, they all they all have different ones?

SPEAKER_06 54:05

Yes.

Tim Nealon 54:06

But I'm assuming they could just go to you know, type into Google, like Medieval Torture Museum, Chicago, St. Augustine, whatever. I don't think there's absolutely there, I don't think you guys have a lot of competition.

SPEAKER_06 54:17

Um no, no, not really. We also are on TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook, so we're pretty easy to find everywhere.

Tim Nealon 54:27

So, what kind of content are you guys putting out on like TikTok? Is it like what should people expect?

SPEAKER_06 54:34

Yeah, most of it is just little snippets of each device that we have.

SPEAKER_07 54:39

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_06 54:40

Kind of when it's like a quirky little caption at the bottom.

Tim Nealon 54:45

Right.

SPEAKER_06 54:45

And some music. That's that's really all it is.

Tim Nealon 54:48

So being in Los Angeles, do you guys ever get celebrities coming in?

SPEAKER_06 54:52

We have, yeah.

Tim Nealon 54:53

So give us the dirt. Like, is there a celebrity out there that's really into torture that would really surprise people? Like they came in and they were like, like Brad Pitt is like, oh my god, I love this stuff so much. Show me the ones where they would lock uh there's that one, and I and I'm you guys think of me funny, but I'm not. There is one where they would, you know, a male's genitalia. Like it was like this this thing that would kind of clamp over it. I don't remember exactly what it would do. Do you know what I'm talking about, Kim?

SPEAKER_06 55:22

Yeah, we we have one.

Tim Nealon 55:24

Oh, all right.

SPEAKER_01 55:25

So what's what's that thing called?

SPEAKER_06 55:28

I am not sure the exact name of it, but I know we have quite a few of them. We also have like 20 to 30 different chastity bills, right? And we have the pair of anguish as well.

Tim Nealon 55:41

Oh, so the the male genitalia device, like what what did that do? Like it was a vice, like it would just squeeze it, yeah. Like squeeze it off, or was it just like like the cause?

SPEAKER_06 55:57

Yeah, squeeze it, squeeze it off.

Tim Nealon 56:00

Oh um, yeah, okay, I take it back. Um, that's the worst one. But I imagine you've had some celebrities in there that are really into that, like like George Clooney, I bet, is really into that.

SPEAKER_06 56:14

Um since I've been here, we haven't had any like super large celebrities come in. We've had a couple like smaller celebrities. Um being Ghost Adventures.

Tim Nealon 56:27

Um, those guys, yay.

SPEAKER_06 56:30

Yeah.

Tim Nealon 56:31

Hey, I don't I don't um I don't have anything bad to say about him. I actually met uh Jay uh or we we all met Jay last weekend or something. Yeah, he was a nice guy.

SPEAKER_06 56:41

Yeah, they they've been in. Um we've had a lot of um Twitch streamers come in. Yeah. Um but I've only been here for about six months. Right. So I'm I'm planning on seeing plenty, plenty more.

Tim Nealon 56:57

You know who else I think would be really into the genital ones? Um like maybe like Madonna. Don't you think she'd be into that kind of stuff?

SPEAKER_05 57:10

Probably.

Tim Nealon 57:10

Yeah, she was a weirdo. Um, who's another one? I don't know, Bruno Mars.

SPEAKER_04 57:18

Don't show that to your wife.

Tim Nealon 57:21

My wife plays Bruno Mars all the time. I hate the fucking guy. Only because like I have to listen to his music all the time. I'm sure he's a nice, I'm sure he's a nice gentleman in person, but yeah, that's how I would torture Bruno Mar Mars. I'd be like, this is for all the hours I've had to listen to your fucking music. Put this on your genitalia. Um all right, Kim. Um let's let's that let's end this on a high note. So so so Kim, why why should people come to the Medieval Torture Museum? And what should they expect to to see and experience and feel while they're there?

SPEAKER_06 58:01

I think people should come to the medieval torture museum to really take a deep look at how we dealt with justice in the past and how it shaped who we are today. I think it really helps people understand that a lot better, and it also kind of gives them an inside look of why they did the things that they did back then and why they don't do them now.

Tim Nealon 58:28

Yeah, I I think it also you know kind of you know gives a little bit of insight into the darker side of human nature as well, you know, because if you if you're in there and you're perusing these devices, you you start to understand what horrific ways people have treated each other in the past, almost as a reminder, you know, they they say that thing, yeah, we we understand the past so we we don't repeat it again. Um and and that and um you know I would like to think these devices wouldn't come back. I mean, seriously though, I mean it it it it gives you insight into the horrific things human beings or human beings are capable of doing to each other. Um which in today's society it it's it's hard to understand how you know you would be able to put somebody inside this big metal bull and light a fire under it and listen to them scream and and take some sick pleasure or at least some satisfaction out of knowing that that's going on. You know, I would like to think we don't have any Sicilian bulls operating in the United States right now, um UK. I bet they have them going there. Um I wonder if India, you know, because India thinks cows are sacred. They worship cows, yeah. Yeah, I wonder if the they have a New Delhi bull. Um I don't know. All right, well, Kim, thanks so much for joining us uh today on the Go City podcast. Uh it's been interesting. Um absolutely so for uh anybody who wants to know more, uh you already gave the website. Uh I'm assuming TikTok, uh, Facebook, all these other ones you mentioned, they could probably just uh search for Medieval Torture Museum Los Angeles and find you.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:08

Um they can just um search up Medieval Torture Museum in general. That's gonna cover all three of our locations.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:16

Um and then you can go from there. Our websites are also attached to our socials. So if you want to check them out, just click on the links and we'll be waiting for you.

Tim Nealon 1:00:30

Well, we do have ghost tours in every city that you mentioned: Los Angeles, Chicago, St. Augustine. And we run a lot of people on our ghost tours. So I'm willing to bet there's actually a large percentage of our guests that would be very interested in visiting the medieval torture museum.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:44

Oh, absolutely.

Tim Nealon 1:00:45

So we're gonna share this with all the people uh that visit our cities and uh let's try to get a lot more people interested in torture.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:52

Absolutely. Thank you so much.

Tim Nealon 1:00:54

Yep, no problem, Kim. Thanks for joining us.

Producer 1:00:58

This episode was brought to you by Ghost City Tours, your guide to the haunted side of history in over 25 cities nationwide. From restless spirits to unsolved mysteries, our tours bring the dead back to life. Look now for a haunted city near you at ghostcitytours.com. Be sure to subscribe to the Ghost City Podcast on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, and wherever you get your podcasts. And remember, it stays