Ghost Adventures, Attachments, and Life After the Investigation w/ Jay Wasley | Ghost City Podcast

You can feel the moment a “fun ghost hunt” turns into something heavier, and Jay Wasley knows that line better than most. Jay joins us from Ghost Adventures, where he’s spent over 16 years filming, investigating, and dealing with the part nobody sees: what follows you home. We talk candidly about the real risks of paranormal investigation, why dark cases can be an adrenaline rush, and why that rush can come with injuries, anxiety, and the slow creep of negativity if you don’t know how to reset.

We also go beyond the haunted-location headlines. Jay shares how music became his most reliable grounding tool after intense investigations, how he watches for the warning signs that something feels “off,” and why creativity and nature can be a lifeline when you’ve been staring into the unknown. From there, we dig into belief systems, prayer vs meditation, intention, and why staying open-minded matters more than picking the “right” label.

Then we get into the stories people ask about nonstop: Demon House in Gary, Indiana and Goatman’s Bridge in Texas, plus what makes certain locations feel uniquely dangerous and why beginners should not copy what they see on TV. We also explore a future where paranormal evidence is treated more like research, with shared databases, repeatable patterns, and smarter ways to connect the dots.

If you’ve ever wondered what Ghost Adventures is like off-camera, what “attachments” really mean, or how to investigate without blowing up your life, press play. Subscribe, share this with a friend who wants to start investigating, and leave a review with your biggest paranormal question.

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Transcript

A Warning About Copying Investigators

Jay Wasley 0:00

It's kind of funny when people are like, Oh yeah, you guys got us into doing this. I'm like, oh, sorry about that. You know, like like I said earlier, like it's humbling and I'm happy to, you know, know that we inspired, but also it's like, yeah, like please be careful. Like, don't just and that's kind of why I was saying, like, figure out your own way. Like, don't just copy us. Like, don't just dive in there headfirst and go, you know, crazy with it. Cause like you can mess up your life. Like these things can affect you. And you know, the more you do it, like it's a numbers game. Like the more you do it, chances are it will mess something up.

Meet Jay Wasley From Ghost Adventures

Tim Nealon 0:38

Welcome back to the next episode of the Ghost City Podcast. Today I'm actually here with Jay Wazley from Ghost Adventures. And uh Jay, I uh I actually had a chance to hang out with you a little bit. We met at Paracon, uh, which it seemed like you guys were having fun. I know that you they they were dragging you guys all over the place and and all that. Um, but we didn't really have a chance to to you know sit down and and have a conversation. So um I'm really appreciative to you for joining us here on the podcast today.

Jay Wasley 1:05

Um thanks. I'm really happy to be here. And you know, we the little chat we did on stage was great. So it's you know, looking forward to uh again more in depth.

Tim Nealon 1:14

Well, hopefully I can hopefully I can do a good job here. I'm actually a really horrible podcast host. Um the editing guys just make me look really good or at least mediocre. Um, they can really give me the thumbs up. I at least look mediocre. But uh so, Jay, for people who might not know who you are, why should they know who you are if they're interested in ghosts and hauntings and the paranormal?

Jay Wasley 1:35

Yeah, uh if you don't know who I am, I'm Jay Wazley and I've been part of Ghost Adventures for a little over 16 years now. Uh I started with the show in 2010, uh originally just as their sound guy. Uh, I was working in film and television pretty much right out of high school, just started working and grew up in the Philadelphia, New York area. And I just started working in film and television as a camera guy, sound guy, kind of whatever crew position needed. Uh, Ghost Adventure started their show in 2008, and they would always hire a local sound guy wherever they would go. And they got renewed for another season in 2010, but they wanted to bring in a full-time sound guy, and I was just recommended. So they literally called me, um, asked me to come out and just do sound for them. Uh, I did that, and we've been filming every other week for the last 16 years now.

Vegas Myths And Charity Poker

Tim Nealon 2:21

Oh my god, Philadelphia. Don't tell me you're a Flyers fan.

Jay Wasley 2:24

Oh, yeah.

Tim Nealon 2:25

Uh Flyers, Eagles, Phillies. See, I'm from the Pittsburgh area. So uh I'm like, Flyers suck. Right.

Jay Wasley 2:33

Penguins, I mean I mean, I like the penguins when Mario Lou Mew was around. Right. Well, I mean it's a long time ago.

Tim Nealon 2:39

Well, I mean, to give you guys credit, you guys did knock the penguins out of the playoffs this year. So kudos to Philly for that. But um Buck Philly at the same time.

Jay Wasley 2:48

Now I'm in Vegas and it's looking good.

Tim Nealon 2:50

Oh, yeah, you guys got the uh the golden knights. I actually thought I so going in the playoffs, and I know this a little bit off topic, I hadn't I would have lost all my money if I would have had to bet on who was gonna be in the finals because I would have never envisioned terrible at it. Yeah, I would have never envisioned the golden knights would be in the finals. And they're actually giving Carolina a run for their money. It's like two two.

Jay Wasley 3:08

Yeah, they're doing pretty good. Yeah, I was gonna say, uh, you know, just the fact that, you know, a lot of people, it's always funny whenever I'm flying home, you know, I'm going to Vegas. So every most of the people on the plane are like, we're going to Vegas and ready to party. And people are like, what are you doing? Where are you going? And I'm like, I'm just going home. And they're like, oh, what casino do you live at? I'm like, I live in a house. Like, it's very normal life. Like, we don't go out gambling all the time. And, you know, it's just because you live in Vegas doesn't mean you're doing that. And I mean, rightfully so, I'm terrible at sports betting anyway. So I wouldn't have much of a career in it.

Tim Nealon 3:38

Yeah, you well, you got to talk to Carter back there. He predicted the Knicks were gonna come back last night. He was all excited about it.

Carter Simoneaux 3:43

Um I definitely did not predict it. In fact, I turned the game off before I could watch the epic comeback.

Jay Wasley 3:48

Right. I do play poker though. I will say that I do a lot of uh with the charity series of poker. Right. So we uh we always have uh charity tournaments, pretty much one or two a month that we raise funds for different charities, things like that. We're actually doing one tonight that helps uh families with children that have autism.

Tim Nealon 4:05

So poker for good purposes. Um that's different. I like that. Um I'm I'm the world's worst poker player. Um You should come play then. Yeah, you would you guys would clean me out every game. I don't even know what I I don't even know what a full house actually is. I know it's a term, but I don't ask me to name what cards are in it. I don't I don't know.

Jay Wasley 4:23

You get like a little cheat sheet if you ever play.

Tim Nealon 4:25

No, if you get a chess competition going, I'm your guy. But um no no on the poker. So

Why Vegas Became Home Base

Tim Nealon 4:31

you know, living in Vegas, uh you know, I am I'm assuming that you moved to Vegas probably to make it easier to work on the show. Or so was there any was there any trepidation in moving to Vegas? Because, you know, like kind of like you described on the plane, it doesn't I know people live there, obviously, but it doesn't seem like one of those places that people should live, if that makes any sense, you know?

Jay Wasley 4:52

Right. And I was on the same page, honestly. Uh when I first started coming to Vegas, I honestly didn't really like it. I was like, oh, it's kind of hectic, it's busy. Like it's fun if you're just going with your friends or something for a weekend, but like to try to come here and work and like traveling in and working, it was always tough, like dealing with the, you know, we would stay in casinos. So just going outside to your car to get equipment or do something, it's just always a hassle. It's always a process, checking in, doing all this, uh, and just busy. And so I honestly didn't really like it at first. Um, but I was I started the show. I was living in Philadelphia, in uh South Philadelphia, and then from there I ended up moving up to the Pocono Mountains, which is in like northeast Pennsylvania, New Jersey border. Uh, that was like my isolation. It was just literally just a house on top of a mountain. The closest anything was a 30-minute drive. That sounds like heaven, by the way. Yeah. Uh, which was great. I honestly loved it. Uh, the problem was I was working on the show, so I would have to drive like two hours to Newark Airport, come home after being on the road, and there's like two feet of snow in my driveway at 2 a.m. And I'm like, no, I can't keep doing this. So that lasted a few years, and then I ended up moving to Nashville. Uh, I was out there for a while, had a house just outside of town, which was great. I love Nashville, did a lot of music videos. Uh, shooting and directing a lot of music videos at the time, and uh, it was a great experience. Um, once again, not necessarily my forever home, but I did really love the you know, the group, the community that we kind of created almost. This music and film community we kind of put together. Uh, and then ultimately moved to Vegas uh for the show. The other three guys, Zach, Aaron, and Billy, they all live out here in Vegas. Uh, so we were tend to do things around the Vegas area. And, you know, after years and years of traveling so much, I was like, you know what? I don't have to be anywhere, I could go anywhere, so I might as well go to Vegas. And I went and, you know, got a house away from the strip out in a you know nice neighborhood. And I was like, oh, this is actually great. It's very comfortable. Everything I need is in this area, you know, you don't have to go to the strip, you don't have to go to any casino. Uh, but it's kind of nice that they're there too. Like, so if you ever are bored at 2 a.m. and you can't sleep, there's always something you can do, and people always want to come visit you too, which is nice. Yeah.

Tim Nealon 7:02

Yeah, I I've been to Vegas a couple of times, and and I I I always got tired of it after like two days. Like, yeah, because as a tourist, you know, we we don't get to see that side of Vegas that you know, your house and stuff is well, but what I really liked Vegas for, it was almost like a really good launching pad. Like if you're a nature lover, because you got Red Rocks Canyon, you got Zion, you got you know the Grand Canyon, uh what is that? Uh what's the one? Oh shit, it's like fire, fire, fire oh uh fire valley, yeah. Like all these Valley of Fire. Valley of Fire, that's it. Yeah, and all those places are beautiful, you know.

Jay Wasley 7:35

And even um, you know, working in entertainment too, LA is only about a four-hour drive if you do it at the right times. Yeah, you know, so you can get there quick. You I mean, even a flight is 30 minutes and they're pretty cheap now. Um, so it's easy, it's a good place. And then obviously, I mean, Nevada is a tax-free income state. Gotta that's always a plus as well. You know, I'm not pitching Vegas, everyone's coming here anyway, it seems, at least from California. Yeah. There's been kind of a boom lately. But uh, but no, it's actually a really cool place to live. Um, I don't have children or anything, so I don't know from that aspect if it's a good place to like raise children, because it is kind of, you know, you can get caught up easily in Vegas if you don't watch yourself. Yeah.

Tim Nealon 8:12

Well, you brought up Los Angeles, and I feel like I need to say something nice about Los Angeles because I totally shit over Los Angeles two podcasts ago. I called the entire town a bunch of insufferable people, um, which I still stand by, but um, but yeah, there there's some good things about being close to Los Los Angeles too. I meant Los Angeles, not Las Vegas.

Jay Wasley 8:31

Well, it's just it's a hub, it's an entertainment hub, you know, despite what you may think of it. And I I get what you're thinking, you know, there's there are good people. I have a lot of friends there, but there is something about LA that there's like everyone's putting on a front in a way. And some people are legitimately that way and good for them, and other people, but like everyone's trying to make it. So everyone's putting on this mask to be like, oh yeah, I'm somebody. Look at me. And yeah, you know, and in a way I get it. Like it's just kind of the way that culture and society kind of evolved there to like be like this is what we have to do to kind of get get ahead and get noticed.

Tim Nealon 9:07

Yeah.

Jay Wasley 9:07

Um, but it is weird when you travel and you see, like, oh, there, there's a lot of people that don't do that. There's, you know, like I grew up on the East Coast and I get this debate all the time because I've worked in film and TV for so long, like East Coast crews versus West Coast crews. And don't get me wrong, I love them all, they're all great, but they're just different styles. They you know, I find like East Coast crews, like they're kind of a little rougher and tough, and they'll like tell you to fuck off if they want to, right? But they're they're real, like you don't ever have to second guess them or question them or worry about ulterior motives, you know. And West Coast, I have encountered people that kind of like, you know, like they wear that mask, yeah, and then eventually the mask comes off. You're like, oh, you're not the person I thought you were.

Tim Nealon 9:45

It's funny. One time I was working on a film project here in New Orleans, and the the people that I hired as the producers, they wanted to hire some of their friends back from Los Angeles. So we actually, it's funny you said East and West. We actually had this crew of probably 20 to 25 people, and it was mixed of East and West. And you could absolutely what you just described, you could absolutely see that play out like between all of them. But you know, that's the thing.

Jay Wasley 10:07

And I say, like, no, you know, there's no right or wrong, you know, each to their own, and they're all great people, don't get me wrong. But it's just interesting that there is such a distinct difference.

Tim Nealon 10:15

Yeah. And then then you got to deal with southerners, which is like the third part of that tribe.

Jay Wasley 10:19

Right, it brings in a whole other angle.

Tim Nealon 10:21

So, you know, you mentioned that you've been working in in TV, you know, you mentioned living outside of Nashville, you know, helping or putting together music videos. So, but I also, well, I was I was looking up online, not in a creepy manner, I promise. And and I noticed like you have like your band and everything. So I I think it's a little bit more than just putting together music videos. You're actually really into this whole music scene.

Music As A Creative Lifeline

Jay Wasley 10:43

Yeah, absolutely. I've I mean, honestly, it's I've safe to say music was my first love. I uh thing I played in my first band in fifth grade. We did the fifth grade talent show. We played Green Jellies, Three Little Pigs, which probably no one knows anymore.

Tim Nealon 10:55

But I know, yeah.

Jay Wasley 10:57

Yeah, it was like a one-hit wonder back in the 90s, and they made this fun claymation video. And that was the time I grew up. Like I grew up in the MTV, like I would come home from school and watch music videos and read comic books and go to the record store. Like that was my world growing up. And you know, I just loved music, started playing guitar, um, playing with different bands. We had shows in basements and you know, high school pep rallies, things like that. And that's kind of what got me into filmmaking was wanting to make these music videos. I got my parents' big old VHS home camera and just started shooting footage and then learning how to edit with two VCRs and kind of putting together these music videos for these random bands I would play with. Right. Um, and that's basically how I learned to shoot, how I learned to light, and kind of got into it that way. And, you know, it still continues where it's still my, you know, it still is my love. I still play music. I have a band um playing with right now called The Colors of Mind. Um, I have a recording studio here in Las Vegas. So we're working on projects, working on an album. I work with other artists too. Um, can't say quite yet because uh we haven't officially announced, but we have a big project. I'm working with someone that I'm really excited to be, you know, producing and working with and developing songs with them, uh, which is gonna be really exciting. Um, yeah, and it's just something, you know, it's kind of funny because it ties into the paranormal world too, because a lot of people ask me, and we can go into depth later if you want, but like people always ask, like, how do you overcome attachments or darkness? And honestly, for me, a lot of it is music. You know, if I come back from an investigation where I feel like I've been affected or something kind of dark is lingering over me, I gotta play music. I find things that like ground me and you know, soothe your soul, if you will. And music's definitely number one, you know. I still I have a big vinyl record collection. So like just listening to music all the time. It's pretty much on all at all points in my day.

Tim Nealon 12:50

You know, I I've noticed this about people in the paranormal community, not everybody, of course, but there's such a large percentage of people that are part of this paranormal community. I guess we'll just call it for the for the sake, you know, people that do investigations or take this seriously. So many of them have like this creative side that's fulfilled by music. Um, I don't know what that is. I don't know if anybody else has noticed that too, but a lot of people I talk to, I mean, who was it? Steve from Ghost Hunters? I was talking to him. He's like, I'm a drummer. Like everybody has like uh playing their own stuff, you know, doing their own instruments or bands.

Jay Wasley 13:20

We should just make a paranormal super group sometime.

Tim Nealon 13:23

You know, we might be able to pull that off.

Jay Wasley 13:25

Right? That'd be fun.

Tim Nealon 13:26

We try to be everybody's friend. We might be able to mend some bridges, like yeah, what would you name it?

Jay Wasley 13:32

Big show, big show at Pennhurst.

Tim Nealon 13:33

Yeah, actually, Carter asked a good question. What would we name this paranormal supergroup? Um I don't know. Fuck, we'll sit here for 10 minutes.

Jay Wasley 13:41

It'll be great if we can like somehow summon like Jimi Hendricks and Kirk Cubane and John Bonham and Scott Wyland.

Tim Nealon 13:49

Up on a on a exactly.

Jay Wasley 13:50

Oh yeah, that'd be great.

Tim Nealon 13:51

I've been listening to Stone Toll Pilots a lot lately. I don't know what's going on in my life, but I'm like, oh yeah, I used to listen to these guys all the time.

Jay Wasley 13:57

Oh, they're so good. Every time I it's the same way, I kind of find like I rediscover them. I'm like, oh yeah, why don't I listen to this more? And I got to see them live once uh in Reading, Pennsylvania. It's such a good show. Like I remember the live show that especially Scott was just I'd never seen anybody that just spinning and jumping, and you know, the way they covered the stage was insane.

Tim Nealon 14:16

Yeah, I saw them in Pennsylvania too. There there used to be a concert um festival. It was called the Rolling Rock Town Fair. Um, and it was like 2001, 2002. Yeah, they they were one of my favorite bands growing up.

Jay Wasley 14:29

But maybe that's was that out in Reading, Pennsylvania, I feel it's like it was like an hour southeast of Pittsburgh.

Tim Nealon 14:35

I think Reading's that's like in the east part of the state. This was like in the west part of the state. But it was it was a huge concert. They had like uh Stone Touble Pilots, they had live stained, incubus, Deftones. Like it was an awesome lineup.

Jay Wasley 14:48

Maybe that was the show I went to, actually. That because I know it was it was farther west that I remember driving out and had like we slept, we uh you know, we were stupid and didn't book a hotel, my friends and I, and then we ended up sleeping in a hotel parking lot in the car because every hotel we tried was already booked.

Tim Nealon 15:03

Well, wouldn't that be something? Hey, uh Jay, we're at the same concert 25 years ago. Um but I think the other part of it is, and this is just my opinion, most new music kind of sucks. Yeah, it definitely it's not the same. I don't want to say sucks.

Jay Wasley 15:17

I know, you know, teach their own, but you know, it's just and then there's good stuff that comes through for sure, but I do agree. I think there's there's a lack of feeling and emotion that isn't there that used to be there. Yeah. And I don't know if that's technology these days, that a lot of people are using more AI stuff and automatic programming. Yeah, you know, it's it's rare these days for modern music where a band actually gets together in a room and actually plays and records stuff. You know, it's all done separately, it's all more digitally based, you know, MIDI computer-based stuff. And I don't know, I think it does take away some of that, you know, that that emotion. You don't feel it as much.

Tim Nealon 15:56

Well, I I I I don't disagree with you at all. And I also think another part of it's just the songwriting itself. You know, like like where's this generation's, you know, Chris Cornell or Lane Stanley, or like you said, Cobain, like there are these these guys that wrote songs that actually had meaning anymore. It seems like everything's like shake your ass and like you know, yeah, I'm a slug. You know, um, yeah, where's that deep stuff? Um, I don't know, maybe, maybe one day Grunge will make a comeback.

Jay Wasley 16:23

Right. Yeah. I would like that. Hopefully.

Tim Nealon 16:26

You could make it happen with the uh paranormal paranormal supergroup.

Jay Wasley 16:30

Right, exactly. I mean, I would I would say like my band, I do draw from that era. Like um, we're kind of an instrumental band right now. So we kind of like, I don't know if you know of Mogwai, they're a British band that you know, we kind of have that kind of vibe, but we work into like a darker element, like uh, you know, almost nine-inch nails vibe.

Tim Nealon 16:48

Oh, yeah.

Jay Wasley 16:48

Um, but then a lot of my guitar riffs and things are kind of like a tool influence, things like that. So it's definitely like a darker, grungy, industrial, ambient kind of weird mix thing.

Tim Nealon 16:59

Yeah, I actually I'm a I'm a huge tool fan. I everybody gets started here. Like I even have like a verse of uh a chorus of one of their songs on my ribs. That's song H. Nobody knows it, but okay. Um I used to be so obsessed with Tool. I actually I I used to play guitar. I I my muscle memory isn't there anymore. It's like my mind knows what to do, but my fingers still don't want to follow. But I actually went out, so Adam, the guitar player for Tool, I bought the same model of guitar that he was you he used because I was like, I gotta get that sound right, you know, like and I never could. Like I don't know what pedals or effects he's using or something, but I'm like, I can never have a lot of processing that gets him to his sound. Yeah. So eventually I just gave up trying to play most tool. And I was like, well, I can still play Breaking Benjamin. Um you know, you mentioned that music is kind of a way you act uh a way that um you know the the the those two parts of your life meet, you know, the the music side of you, but also the the you know, Jay, the the paranormal investigator, the the producer, the the filmmaker, all those things. That it music is one of those things that helps you deal with that part of your life. Um so I guess let's just jump into that.

Why The Show Chases Dark Cases

Tim Nealon 18:07

I mean one what is you know, I most people know the show Ghost Adventures. I mean, some of our audience might not just simply because they're like we talked about earlier, we got a lot of tourists who watch our shows, which is great. Um but you know, Ghost Adventures is kind of known for taking and and I don't want to speak for the world, but I think I'm mostly getting this right when I say like you guys tend to focus on the darker things going on in the spirit realm than than most shows do. Like a lot of shows are like we're gonna go to this house and try to help the family. And you guys are and it's not I'm not saying you guys don't do that, but a lot of your investigations are focused on like these darker hauntings. Uh I mean, one, would you would you say that's an accurate assessment of how you guys kind of approach things or yeah, a hundred percent.

Jay Wasley 18:53

I think you know, it's totally fair to say that we tend to go that way. Um I think it stems from, you know, I don't know, there's something, you know, we all have this desire to know what happens after we die, what it all is, what it all means. Um, but we get, I don't know, I don't know if it's just we get crazier evidence, you know, and it's more of a an adrenaline rush in a way, when it's like a darker, scarier kind of vibe. Um, you know, but we do things too. We had a whole series called House Calls where we did focus on people's homes and help them out, uh, which honestly, if surprisingly, would be terrifying in its own right, just going to people's homes when you're not expecting it. Um, and we've had that too. There I remember there was a place uh during the regular show, Zach and I were investigating a uh an old like I think it was a VFW in LA, and like they were like, Oh yeah, this place is haunted by our friend who died here. So we're like, okay, this one seems pretty, you know, mellow, not scary or dark. And we're middle investigation, and all of a sudden we start getting growls, and like just you could tell, like just the energy shifted, and there was something really dark and terrifying there. So, in a way, you never know. Um, but yeah, we like to dive into that. You know, I think it's you know, it's a corner of the unknown that you know people are sometimes afraid to go into, and rightfully so, I get it. Um, but we kind of dove into it and now it's like, all right, what is this? You know, and like you know, there is negative and positive energy. So, what is this negative energy? Are these really these entities, these demons, creatures, or are they just you know, pissed off people? Are they, you know, what is that? You know, it's I don't know, it's really fascinating to me.

Tim Nealon 20:31

No, I I I actually I understand, but I'm sure from my own from my own reasons, you know, everybody has their own reasons for for liking whatever. Um you know, I I think that I was always kind of drawn to the darker stuff, maybe because I'm a shitty person. I don't know. Um, and I just felt like more at home and like the the more negative. I'm that was a really bad self-deprecation. I don't know.

Jay Wasley 20:53

I feel there's uh you know, there's I don't know, when you when you learn this, it's like people that like are obsessed with crime shows and you know everyone slows down and watches a car wreck on the highway. You know, it's some you know, not to throw a tool lyric, but like we're vicarious. Like that whole song that they wrote is about like the observation of suffering and darkness and how there's this weird inherent human nature to be drawn to that.

Tim Nealon 21:21

Well, it's also funny you guys do that on TV because uh the other part of that line is uh from a good safe distance. Right. Exactly. Yeah. I can live vicariously through you. And I and I think, you know, the you know, I I okay, that's a little bit off topic, but um like it almost feels like like you would you classify you you and and the rest of the guys on the show kind of like as thrill

The Rush And The Real Risk

Tim Nealon 21:43

seekers. Is that why you're you're more drawn towards the the more unpredictable side of the paranormal? 'Cause I think it would be safe to say the negative side of it is a little bit more predictable than you know, the the the friendly ghosts, right? I'm thinking.

Jay Wasley 21:57

Yeah, I think so. I think for us too it's uh Know, like for me personally, I like to describe it as you know, before the show, I mean, well, I was into the paranormal, but anyway, but the show itself, like after doing it for so long, I understand why people want to go skydiving. As me personally, I could never go skydiving. Like, I want to, I can acknowledge the rush and I acknowledge how beautiful it is and how amazing of an experience it is. But for some reason, my body just shuts down and it's terrified and it's just it's never gonna happen. Like, I could be honest, it'll never happen. But I understand why people do that. And I think it's the same thing with uh, you know, when we're investigating these dark haunts, it's the same thing. It's terrifying, it's scary. So other people might be like, no way, there's no way I'll ever do that. But once you do it, it's such a rush, it's such an adrenaline rush, it's such a, you know, you charge up and it's just, I don't know, it's just something, you know, almost magical about it that, you know, is such a unique experience.

Tim Nealon 22:54

So like what is that rush though exactly? Like for you personally, like you're you're you're you said it's such a rush. Like is it a rush simply because it's it's scary? Is it you know, like you're you're you always feel like maybe you're on the uh verge of uncovering something new that'll add another piece to the puzzle? Like what what exactly are you uh feeling when you when you say that you get a rush from it?

Jay Wasley 23:16

Yeah, I think it's a little bit of both. I think there is uh you know a natural rush of being like, okay, like you're on the edge of something terrible could happen. I mean, I've broken ribs, I've broken my ankle, I've cracked my back, I've had injuries just doing this, you know, and I've had uh, you know, uh attachments and things follow me home. We all have. Um, so there is like this edge of, you know, almost like that risk of like, oh, there's a little bit of a risk here, and there's something exciting about that. Um, you know, maybe also a bit of crazy, but it's kind of exciting. Um, but then also what originally got me into this too is just the ability to explore the unknown. Um, you know, I have a quest for knowledge. Even when I was a kid, it's kind of funny because you know, I ended up being on the show, but even as a kid, I was into the paranormal, I was into the unknown. Uh, I was the youngest of three kids, so I was kind of by the time I was around, they were like kind of just I was like a free-range kid, like just go out and do what you want, kind of thing, you know. And I explored, I looked into myths, I studied different religions and different belief systems, and I was just fascinated about all of it. Uh, and I wanted to know more and more and more. Uh, and I did kind of, you know, I didn't know what like ghost investigating was back then, but I don't even know if it necessarily existed as an official term kind of thing yet at that point. But uh I was into it, like I would explore these things, I would go to abandoned buildings and just kind of walk around and experience things. I remember actually being a teenager and going to Pennhurst, you know, and things like that. Like it was just this natural draw to be like, what is this? What is it? What is it? And then fast forward through life, and I literally get to do it as a job now, and it's incredible, and it still just thrills that it fills that quest for knowledge that I have that's deeply rooted in me.

Tim Nealon 25:03

Yeah, I I I I think people who who go about not that I'm like a judge or jury for paranormal investigation, but I do think people who approach it with that perspective tend to get a lot more out of it than the people who are just simply the thrill seeking type. Because there's there's both. Um and uh and and you know, it seems like over the last couple of years, maybe a little bit, especially with uh with with YouTube kind of gaining so much market share, so to say, you know, in the paranormal entertainment space. So there seems to be a lot more of that just thrill seeking aspect of it out there. There's a lot of really popular ones out there, you know, paranormal investigators that uh I'm sure you've seen one or two of them. They just run through the house screaming, you know.

Jay Wasley 25:42

Right. Somehow that's entertainment. In fairness too, I I know of the shows. I honestly don't watch other ghost shows. And it's no, you know, I don't yeah, you know, there's no problem. Like I don't don't not that I don't want to or have issues or anything. I personally, for me, I don't want to be influenced in what I do when I investigate, if that makes sense. Yeah, that's it's like uh like when I'm investigating, I want to know that even if it's been done before, I want to know it's an original thought to me. You know, I'm not like watching other shows and then all of a sudden I start becoming like influenced or shifting the way I approach things, if that makes sense. So I kind of try to keep my slate clear as much as possible.

Tim Nealon 26:23

That's why I don't listen to other podcasts because I don't want to realize how shitty I actually am at doing these things.

Jay Wasley 26:29

It's true. Well, I mean, you know, honestly, I I notice it when, you know, I mean, I'm I listen to music all the time, but if I have like, you know, moments where I'm like, oh, I'm listening to Alice in Chains a lot lately. Yeah, I go start writing a song, I'm gonna write a song that sounds like Alice and Chains. Right. You know, if I'm listening to like Seagor Ross for a while, I'm gonna start writing a song that sounds like Seagor Ross. Like, you know, that that does influence you, even if you're not doing it on purpose. I think subconsciously these things do influence you. So, you know, in the paranormal world, I try to stay, you know, a hundred percent original and unique as much

Influence Without Imitation

Jay Wasley 27:01

as I can.

Tim Nealon 27:01

Well, talking about influence, I mean, you and you know, the show and the guys that you work with, I mean, you kind of influence the whole generation, you know, of paranormal investigators. You know, there's a lot of people out there that um, you know, look out, look up to you guys and kind of emulated the way they investigate based on the way that you guys investigate. Um one, do you think that's a good thing? Not that I mean the influence, the influence, the influence part is great. And that like you should be proud of that.

Jay Wasley 27:27

But oh yeah, you know, like there is, you know, it's a humbling, you know, I'm proud. And you know, I had a moment in my life where I'm like, am I doing the right thing? Like, should I go dig wells in Africa? Should I like donate my time to like help the needy more, do something on a bigger, grand earthly scale? Um, but then when I started meeting with fans and doing conventions and social media now, and like started hearing how much we actually help fans and have influenced people and you know, give people hope and closure and all these kind of things. I'm like, oh, we actually are doing a really good thing here and we are, you know, and I think to be able to inspire somebody, you know, you know, to me, inspiration is one of the most beautiful things that you can experience as a human. So, like, you know, things that inspire me, I hold, you know, on a pedestal above pretty much anything else. And, you know, so to be able to inspire people is very beautiful experience and humbling. Uh, I will say I think people shouldn't just copy anybody. Right. You know, you shouldn't just like find your own thing, you know. And if it ends up crossing over and it's similar, like that's fine. But, you know, I'm a big believer in think for yourself, you know, like the whole, what was it, the Timothy Leary question reality, think for yourself kind of thing is like, yeah, like, you know, don't just listen to us, don't just listen to other groups, like find your own voice, find your own style, figure out what works for you, you know, and pursue that. Like, don't just, you know, lack of a better term, like, don't just kind of cheaply follow, you know, something you see.

Tim Nealon 28:58

Yeah. I I remember for for years after the show came out, and many years after, everybody was trying to be the next Zach Baggins.

Jay Wasley 29:04

Because he I mean, let's be honest, he has a very uh unique, maybe is uh a way of see the popularity, and they're like, oh, if that's popular, then if we do it, then maybe that'll make us popular. And yeah, you know, so they kind of they mimic, I think, in a hopes of that they will get noticed and right you know, reach the popularity that we were able to. Yeah.

Tim Nealon 29:24

Well, they won't. Um, but they'll they'll get somewhere and and I'm sure they'll be happy uh along the journey. Now, the the the point I wanted to go back to was the music part of it, you know, because you said, like, hey, music actually helps me deal with a lot of this stuff. And that's why I wanted to to kind of dive into, you know, that you guys are known for these darker hauntings. You guys are kind of known for, you know, living on the edge, I guess, a little bit of of what you're willing to to enter and do. So when you say that that music helps you, you know, when you when you come home from one of these investigations or or whatever, what what is happening in in your life or or in your head or or whatever that is making you feel like, hey, I actually need this music to help me process, you know, move past um, you know, however you look at that. What what is what is that?

Jay Wasley 30:12

Um I think for me it's it's been a it's been an evolution, it's been a growth of realizing when things are not right. You know, early on in the investigations, you know, I think none of us really, you know, knew and exactly what we were doing and how to deal with things. And it's something we've learned over the years to kind of be aware, like, you know, and acknowledge the fact that, like, oh, maybe you are affected, maybe there is something getting you. I think that's, you know, like the first step of any problem is admitting you have a problem, you know. Right. Um, so just being aware that, like, you know, and knowing who you are. And for me, I'm a very laid-back person. I'm easygoing. I'm, you know, very chill and relaxed. And um, so I can tell when I'm, you know, if I'm doing something darker and affected, you know, I feel affected, you know, I feel like, you know, like, oh, I'm just not my happy normal self. Like there's like almost like a depression and anxiety that kind of looms over you, you know, and it's not like, oh, there's nothing that happened specifically that's making me anxious or depressed or anything. Um, it's just kind of out of the blue. And then for me, that's my sign of like, all right, I'm not gonna feed into this, I'm not gonna let it linger. I'm going to take care of this now. I'm gonna do what I do, I'm gonna spend time in nature, I'm gonna go, you know, go on a hike or I'm gonna go play music, I'm gonna just do things that I love and create positivity in my life to be able to knock out any of that negative right away.

Tim Nealon 31:36

Now, do you do you think that that uh I don't know how to word this, and I know you guys will edit this slightly to make me sound smart. Um, a lot of these people that are are getting into paranormal investigation, you know, like they're just starting, you know, they're they're going out and getting their their first equipment or finding their first location or whatever. And then, you know, they see, you know, uh a show like Ghost Adventures. You know, one of the things that that always it didn't really bother me about paranormal TV and it's not anything against your show at all. But people see that and they kind of get into it thinking that they need to try to emulate you guys, not really understanding that there's there are actually negative consequences that they might not have no idea of because there's a lot that happens to you guys once those cameras go off.

Jay Wasley 32:20

Yeah.

What Cameras Do Not Capture

Jay Wasley 32:21

Yeah, I tell people that a lot that, you know, I get it, you know, to a lot of people, we are just a TV show. And so I understand, you know, we're just entertainment, you know, in a sense for a lot of people. But this is our life. Like it's the four of us going out and doing this, you know, literally every other week for years and years and years. And, you know, it really affects us. There's a lot of stuff that you don't see on camera. You know, we film, you know, multiple days on an episode. You're seeing, you know, with commercials and the edits, only like 40 something minutes, you know, of multiple days of, you know, being in a location and then, you know, even the lead up to it and coming home and dealing with things like and we try to sprinkle that in sometimes when something major happens, we'll try to share that with the audience. But there's a lot that you don't see, you know. And I think it's nice that, you know, we've had the opportunity in the past to do other shows. Like we had a whole show called Aftershock series where we like followed up with people. Uh, we had the Screaming Room series where we would watch episodes and kind of talk about things and kind of give you more insight of what happened afterwards and things like that. And I think that was really fun. It was kind of cool for us to kind of like, because we're going so fast, like we go through it, like we kind of almost don't even have time to process it ourselves. So it was nice to kind of sit back and be like, oh wow, yeah, and kind of like take in, like, yeah, we did that. That happened to us. Wow. Like, you know, I forgot about that. Like, that was a really dark time that was messed up. But like, you know, thankfully we got through it. And, you know, we are the four of us are like, you know, brothers that, you know, like to tease and mess around. But I do feel at the end of the day, like we do have each other's backs, which helps, you know, try tremendously.

Tim Nealon 33:59

So what would you say to people? Uh, and I and I'm sure you've heard all heard this all before, that um think that that side of paranormal investigation like is is just made up. You know what I mean? Like, oh, they're just they're dramatic, you know, it's all for show. Um you know, what and and by the way, I I've experienced some of this effects of dark wannings and stuff myself. So uh you're not trying to convince me, but I I hear that I hear that myself too. They're like, it couldn't have really been that bad. Like there was there was uh like I was investigating a place in Tennessee that was called Old South Pittsburgh Hospital. And it's uh it there there was a part of it we ran into something I I I don't like to use the word demon, but I think that's what most people would call it, you know. Um and this thing, whatever it was, I mean, it was around for there was a two-year period of my life where I I was not good. I mean, I was uh waking up in the middle of the night to just these horrific visions that I don't even like talking about. Um, you know, seeing the this black figure at the edge of my bed that wouldn't move, you know, I was feeling suicidal half the time. And, you know, people would come into my house and they would they would want to leave right away because it it was, you know, either a bad feeling or all these things. And uh, you know, I was telling this story one time and somebody said, Well, you're just trying to sell ghost tour tickets. And I was like, like, what what one, what does that have to do with a ghost tour? And they're like, Oh, well, you know, we see how they, you know, and they didn't mention your show or you guys specifically, but they're like, Yeah, we see how you know people you on TV say that they all this stuff happens, but that that's just to get viewers. And um like I know it's not to get viewers, but but there are a lot of people that that think that this is all just for TV, you know, you guys are trying to make it seem more dramatic than it really is. What would you say to people if you had a chance to?

Jay Wasley 35:44

I mean, I say like I get it. TV is there's a lot of bullshit on TV. So I I generally I understand the original thought. Um, I've worked in television pretty much my whole life now. And you know, I worked in reality TV as a crew and different things. And I remember when I first started working on the show, I was just the sound guy. And I remember doing the first episode, and then when I watched that episode come out, I was actually impressed at how accurate and real the show was. Like it wasn't manipulated, it wasn't edited to make it look like something happened that didn't. It was real in real time, basically what happened in when I was there as a witness, just witnessing it to what actually showed on the show. And I was impressed because I worked on a lot of reality TV that is kind of bullshit and manipulated and twisted, and you know, so it was refreshing. It felt good to be like, wow, this is you know, it's not a TV show, it's actually documentary. Uh, and I think that's what we approach things as. We approach things as documentarians, like we're trying to capture this, we're trying to present this evidence, you know, we're not just creating a TV show for entertainment. We actually want to show these things, we want to prove these things to people, we want to share these experiences with people. Um, and I mean, simply said, like, you know, I kind of joke, I say as a joke, but like I wish sometimes it wasn't real because it would make sleeping at night easier. You know, these things, it's not just a show, it's our life. Like we live in this, we're engulfed in it, you know. Even when we're not filming, it still affects us. You know, we still talk with each other and we still go back and forth, and you know, we all have our things. And, you know, Zach's always in it, he's in it all the time. Like even when we're not filming, he's in he has the museum here in Vegas, so he's engulfed in it even more. You know, I'm grateful that I get some time to kind of re you know, cleanse my palate and stuff and kind of, you know, but he's always in it. He's working on the next episode, he's you know, going through, you know, finishing up the last episode, things like that. You know, but it's it's a full time, it's literally our life, you know. It's, you know, and I get it, you know, I still, as an investigator, I approach everything skeptically. So I understand the mentality of like, you know, you don't want to just instantly think it's all ghosts, you don't want to just instantly think it's all paranormal. Um, but it is, you know, there's no doubt in my mind at all that through my experiences over the years, that there's so much more than just this world. There's so much more than this life, this reality, um, whether it be ghosts, aliens, cryptids, things like that. There's so much more. And I think what's exciting is that we're still trying to figure it out. We're still trying to figure out exactly what these things are, you know. Uh, you know, I can go off on theories where sometimes I'm like, oh, is that a ghost or is that like an alien or an interdimensional being? Or, you know, like there's so many levels, and I just I love it. I think it's so fascinating that, you know, to be able to explore this. And like I said, we try to document it. You know, we're not trying to just present it, we're trying to literally capture this and show it in a documentary style.

Tim Nealon 38:46

Well, I I think one of the good things shows like yours did, um, because I mean, even before you came on board, you said 2010, you know, ghosts adventures had been around for a couple years. Um, and and that whole genre, it just it made talking about these things in society like more acceptable, you know, because um, you know, like uh so I'm really into Bigfoot, maybe even more than ghosts. I'm like super into Bigfoot. Um, we're actually filming a documentary we've been working with Cliff Berrickman. I don't know if you know Cliff or not. Um sounds familiar, but I don't know him. Yeah, we're we're doing uh a Bigfoot thing. Um but I so Bigfoot's not quite there. I can't talk about Bigfoot in public without getting ridiculed half the time. But it seems like the ghosts and and and you know haunting side of it, you know, as opposed to 20 years ago, 25 years ago, before all these shows really started coming into play, it was very taboo to talk about. You know, if you brought up ghosts in a public setting, ah, you know, you're making it up, you're crazy, you need to see a therapist or something. But because of all the the the shows, um, you know, at least it's become more acceptable to talk about that in public. And I think even that's part of unlocking the lock, like just getting people talking about their experiences.

Jay Wasley 39:56

Yeah, I think it's important to be able to talk about things. I think that's how we evolve as a society, as a species, is we have to talk about things, you know, even uncomfortable things, even things that might sound crazy. I mean, you look at history, you know, throughout history, like our modern society is built on people questioning things and being like, is that real? Is there a better way to do this, or should we do that? You know, it's literally what's caused us to evolve as a society and reach where we are in our technological advancements and things like that is questioning what we know. You know, all of science is, you know, you have thesis, you have theories that you're like, okay, what if this? What is this? You know? Um, and I think, you know, that drives us, you know, drives humanity to be better and to evolve. And I think, you know, it's important to do that. And I think it has been able to bring people together to have these discussions,

Building A Real Paranormal Data Trail

Jay Wasley 40:48

you know. I almost kind of want, and if anyone out there they can have the idea is like almost create like a central database of paranormal investigations where like things can be cross-referenced, you know. Um, but it's what's fascinating for me from a science point of view is now with the community, we are kind of starting getting that. You know, there's locations that have reoccurring hauntings, you know, like people are knowing spirits by name or by shape. And like, oh, you know, there's this tall shadow figure that's seen by multiple people at different times at this one location. So I think that's really important to have that, you know, uh, you know, to have credibility in the paranormal world is to have these things reoccur. Yeah. You know, it's not just a one-time random fluke because then people are going to always question it. But if we can start showing and proving that, oh, this is happening over and over again repeatedly, and multiple people are having these experiences, then I think it will kind of gain people's trust and knowing that, like, oh yeah, this stuff really is happening. And that only comes with having these conversations and creating a community where people can be aware of this and talk about it.

Tim Nealon 41:52

Well, that software that you mentioned, funny enough. So, my real job, I'm actually a software engineer. Like, I know that I own Go City Tours and all this stuff, but um we've been working on something that that is almost exactly what you're describing. Um, and it'll probably roll out here in the next two months. Like, I don't even really know what I'm gonna do with it. It was just a matter of, you know, like you were talking about, like we have all these data points, and you know, the human brain or even good uh computers are only capable of, you know, making so many connections. But now that we're able to integrate artificial intelligence into it, which I know, you know, I I get tired of hearing the word AI. Half the time I don't even think people know what they're talking about when they talk about AI. But there it is interesting the way that that this software is being built, that we're gonna be able to make connections between literally millions of points of data potentially and be able to make sense of them in a way that we can't. Kind of what you're describing, like this idea of, you know, well, making connections, you know, between stuff.

Jay Wasley 42:48

Exactly. Well, that's anything to be like uh to become like a scientific law, it has to be repeatable, right? That's kind of the main consensus and experiments is can this experiment be done over and over again and still get the same results? And that's the hard part in the paranormal, it's not always the same results, it's not always repeatable. Um, but it also is, you know, I think that is, and I think having a place where we can actually track that, it's not always repeatable day to day. So, but I think over the long run, you'll see these patterns, you'll see these repeated events occurring. And, you know, actually, I think one, hopefully it would draw like more mainstream scientists to be like, whoa, what actually is going on there? There is something we can actually study, you know, here and you know, not just think it's taboo or anything like that, and you know, really dive into it and kind of really figure out what's going on here.

Tim Nealon 43:37

Well, I even think the scientists are slowly starting to take this stuff more seriously as it becomes more of a discussion about consciousness. Um you know, like there are there's all these, you know, I'm not even gonna get into my theory. Every other podcast I bring up this theory of consciousness I've been working on for six years, not doing it. But, you know, one one of the interesting things I saw a couple months ago, there's actually another podcast. I I lied, I do listen to other podcasts sometimes. It's called Diary of a CEO is the name of the podcast. And he interviews, you know, experts across the board. It doesn't have to do with CEO business. And I can't remember the woman's name, but she was a world-renowned neurologist, like an actual doctor who studies, you know, uh, you know, the brain and all this stuff. And she did not believe in ghosts at all, you know, kind of that that scientific hardline approach. But then her husband passed away. And then all of a sudden she started having experiences. And I at one point she even saw her husband and then she started thinking, like, holy shit, like, i am I going crazy? Are are ghosts real? What's going on here? And uh, so as a neurologist, she actually started to do some studies into what ghosts are. And I don't, I don't know where that ended up or if she's even finished with it yet. But it was kind of it was kind of inspiring a little bit to finally see, like, oh, wait, like people at a very high level were starting to take these things seriously.

Jay Wasley 44:53

Right. I think that is. And I think when they study these things, they do open up a door in a sense, and they start having these little experiences. And, you know, even there's a thing with uh Nikola Tesla when he was doing stuff with sound frequencies and radios and things, and he started picking up voices that weren't there. And I remember there's like uh I forget the quote, but he has a famous quote where he talks about like these voices that would come through and you know, from like another realm or something like that. And it was just, you know. So I think, you know, through science, they ex you know, I think these things do happen. I think a lot of scientists might play it off as like, oh, it's just it was a mess up. It didn't, you know, yeah, you know, because when they do it again, it might not happen. Um, but it still happened, you know, it's still something that really did occur.

Tim Nealon 45:33

Well, I

Science, Religion, And Staying Open

Tim Nealon 45:34

also think, and I and I don't mean this as a knock against any religion at all. Um, but I but I feel like you know, there there's always been like this di not not not a dynamic, but a duality, like when it comes to what goes sorry. I mean, I know there's a million different interpretations of what they are and everything like that, but it seems to be like there's like people that are in the religious camp, you know, that it had that these things are somehow tied to religion somehow, but then there's the people that are like, no, it's just strictly science. Um, you know, and I feel I it's just my interpretation of what I've seen over the past 25 years. It's like as the religion part of it I don't it's not because it's not going anywhere, but as long it as I don't even know how to say this right, as more people dive into the science bucket instead of the religious bucket, it seems like this is starting to be taken much more seriously by scientists. I agree.

Jay Wasley 46:21

You know, the religious view definitely kind of, you know, it puts up barriers, it puts up walls around what could be. But at the same time, um, I think, you know, I've had this debate with people where they're like, oh, you know, even recently with the government releasing all this alien stuff, right? They're like, oh, it's gonna destroy religion, it's gonna ruin people's concept of you know, faith and things. I'm like, I really don't think it will. It's just it might alter it a little bit, it might you know, rechange some things, but I don't think it necessarily has to just wipe it out. You know, I think, you know, if even historically, you look at the Bible, you look at belief systems, they have changed over the years, you know. Sure, these things have been around for thousands of years, they're not the exact same belief system that we have today. Yeah, like it's evolved, it's changed with you know, as we learn things. And I think that's the same thing, you know. I would tell anybody that's religious, like, don't, you know, if you believe that, great, like believe it, stick with it, but don't dismiss that things could also be different, you know, there could be more to it, you know. Even oh, we have aliens, that means religion to know maybe God created aliens too, you know. Like it doesn't necessarily wipe it all out, you know. So I don't, I just I hope anybody just doesn't isn't closed-minded about what could be, you know, like yeah, I think we're literally on this rock flying through space in this giant infinite space, you know, like anything could be out there. And for us to say, nope, it's only this is, you know, honestly, I think very close-minded.

Tim Nealon 47:49

Yeah, but and and like I said, it it does, it does seem to be a shift, you know, more towards, you know, okay, maybe this isn't religious in in nature. And I and by the way, I'm not claiming it's one or the other. I have no idea. Um, but it does seem like there's more and more people who are willing to accept the fact that, hey, maybe this is strictly like a physics science kind of thing. And it actually maybe doesn't have a lot to do with religion. I feel like, you know, a a lot more progress could be made. But then I mean then again, I'm gonna die and find out that I was wrong. And then God's gonna be like, I mean, really at the end of the day, that's the only way to know, right?

Jay Wasley 48:23

Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I always thought that I was like, I mean, you know, if I die and all of a sudden there's a guy there that's like, all right, we're gonna judge you. I'm like, come on, like you see what I'm dealing with down here. Like, I was a good person, I lived a good life. Like, all right, come on in, you're fine.

Tim Nealon 48:38

Yeah. Um, I think one of the one of the views that that drives me the most crazy, and and by the way, I I it's great that these people believe it. I have, you know, who am I to judge? But the people that are everything's a demon. There are no such things as ghosts. The they're just demons trying to trick you into thinking uh, you know, it's your grandpa or whatever. Like those those people drive me a little bit baddie when I try to have a conversation with them. Cause how do you how do you uh advance that conversation? Because they are so convinced everything's a demon taking a different form to fool you. Um exactly.

Jay Wasley 49:10

Yeah, it's tough to, I mean, and I get it, you know, and I think that does come from whatever belief system they were raised in or you know, what they have grown up in, and that's what they base their world on and their beliefs on, you know. So I get it, but at the same time, it's the same thing. Like just try not to be closed-minded, you know, like you could still have your faith, your beliefs, but you know, if we like I kind of saying earlier, if we don't question what is, we'll never evolve as a species, we'll never grow. And I think that's important. It's important to have growth, you know, it's important to always try to better ourselves. And even if that is asking questions that might, you know, kind of question our faiths and our beliefs. Like it's okay. It's okay to explore that.

Tim Nealon 49:52

So you yourself personally, since you've been doing the the paranormal investigation stuff, have there been times where you have questioned yourself and then found out like, wait, I that original belief that I actually held on to was incorrect based on what I know now or what I think now.

Jay Wasley 50:09

Um, so for me personally, I've never uh I wasn't brought up any particular religious way or anything. And I wouldn't say um any particular religion. Right. Um, but at the same time, I studied a lot of religions. So I find, you know, you know, maybe it's controversial, but like they're kind of all the same, you know. Like when you really read into them and look at like the core stories, they're all like a lot of them are personifications of the sun's movement through the sky, like the stories they tell, things like that, like their creation stories, they're you know, they're the you know, their you know, Jesus figure or the person that kind of is like, you know, there's so many deities that are born a virgin around Christmas time, and you know, there was the three stars that came or the three why like there's so many crossovers and so many, or it's kind of all telling the same story. And I think the core beliefs is like just don't be a dick, just be a good person, like live a good life, be nice to your neighbors, be nice to your people, you know, don't treat people poorly. Like I think that's what it really comes down to, and then it's just different packages of how it's distributed and how like, oh, there's this package here, there's this package, you know, which one do you want? You know, where I think it doesn't matter. And I think, you know, if there is a God, if there is this higher power that watches it over us that does this, like I don't think I think they would understand that, like, oh, there's like 20 different packages to pick. Like, I'm just gonna take on the core values. So for me, I'd never took one of those packages. I never like, you know, but I did develop my own spirituality. I do believe my own moral code, you know, which is drawn from all these things and kind of put together where I just try to be a good person.

Tim Nealon 51:49

So, what what I was really wanting to dig into was, you know, once you started doing the paranormal investigations, you know, once you started diving more and more into that world, did you were there any beliefs just about ghosts or paranormal investigations or anything that, you know, or maybe, you know, to tie into what you were just talking about, did it influence your your view of religion at all once you started diving into the paranormal investigation the way that you guys do now?

Jay Wasley 52:14

I think um no, I think it's growing. Like I'm I'm an evolutionist. I think it's important to grow and always be evolving. So I'm always open to change. I'm always open to, you know, and that's the thing. I'll have theories and then I do experience something. I'm like, oh, that kind of makes me question it. You know, nothing grand, but like it's always evolving. I'm always, you know, I'm never one to be like, this is what it is. I know this is it. You know, I'm open to the fact that I don't know. I'm open to the fact that like despite doing this for so long, I still, you know, would never say, like, oh, I know what it is. You know, I'm very open to always learning and evolving my thoughts. Um, but I think with, you know, the religion aspect, I've learned the power of religion for sure. Um, not necessarily my belief system, but I've learned the power of it. Where, you know, when I was younger, I was kind of like, you know, you know, I was a bit of a rebel, you know, I grew up in like the grunge error where it was like, you know, question things and kind of fight the power back and you know, uh things like that. So I kind of like had an initial like was like, oh, that's crazy. Like, why would you do that? But then I started seeing like how it comforts people.

Tim Nealon 53:20

Yeah.

Jay Wasley 53:20

You know, like if someone dies, like they pray and they ask, they're like, oh, they're in a better place. And I was like, oh, I started realizing like these things are actually good for people. Yeah. You know, I could see the good of religion and how that can give people one, a good moral compass, it could give them, you know, comfort and faith, you know, thinking their loved ones are in a better place and that they'll see them again one day, like, you know, and it how actually does help people, you know. So I saw the power of that. And then doing the house calls series, I learned a lot, especially where um, because we would basically cleanse people's homes. And if they were religious, we would pray for them. We they we would do, you know, blessings, things like that with uh, you know, Christian Catholic base or whatever their belief system is. But if they didn't believe in religion, prayer is not gonna work for them. Like it's not gonna work, like we would have to adjust to whatever their belief system is. And I think that goes into, you know, the whole consciousness experience of like how we kind of create our consciousness and our reality and our view of the world is what we imagine and what we put together. So if it's outside of your belief system, it's not gonna necessarily work for you. You know, even if you're closed off to the idea that paranormal exists, like if you're just like 100% nope, it doesn't exist at all, chances are you won't have an experience. So I think that's one of the biggest things I've learned about like religion and beliefs is that you know, it it it varies and like it can be very powerful, it can be very helpful, but also like if it works for you, stick with it. Like, I'm not one to judge, I don't care what you want to believe. Like, if it's positive and good and it gives you, you know, the good benefits and makes you a better person, then I'm all for it. Go for

Intention, Prayer, And Energy Spillover

Jay Wasley 55:03

it.

Tim Nealon 55:03

You know, I you you mentioned prayer, um, you know, the idea of prayer. And you know, you you might have seen the same studies or heard the same thing I did that like prayer actually works, right? Like, like they like it's almost like this this intention that that you're projecting into the universe and like just that intention alone. Um, because myself, I'm I'm not a religious person. And I I wish I could be, and maybe one day I will be, but like, but just not for me right now. Um, but I can acknowledge, like I've seen people like pray on things, and all of a sudden it's like that person actually got better despite everything the doctor was saying or whatever. And uh you know, I I've often thought that that going out and doing these paranormal investigations and prayer actually have a lot of similarities. And at first you might be like, Tim, that makes no sense whatsoever. But you know, when you pray or when people pray, they're they're they're putting their intentions out into the world. And and it's like there are times where it seems like that those prayers actually can have an impact on on the world around them. And and I I have no explanation for that. I don't think science does either. But when you go out on a paranormal investigation, it's almost like the same thing, you know, like where you're going out and you're trying to to go into a location with intention and and essentially ask for something or or or say what you're trying to accomplish or anything. And then then it kind of starts happening. Like, am I making any sense at all? Like I know it, I know it makes sense. 100%.

Jay Wasley 56:29

I agree completely. You know, I think it's the same thing, you know, religions call it prayer. But I think if you're not religious, it's meditation, it's mantras, it's manifestation, it's yeah, you know, just like you said, putting these thoughts, these intentions into the universe, if you will, like not even to label it, but just putting them out into the world and you get that energy back, you know. I think that's really what it comes down to. And, you know, people, whether it's prayer, meditation, chanting, you know, even people doing yoga practices, things like that, or just just being a good person and just being a positive, outgoing person. You're putting that positive energy into the world. And I think that's what the key is. You know, I don't think it's necessarily like I said earlier, like what package it's wrapped in. I think it's more important is what your intentions are, where what you're you know, is it positive, is it negative? Are you really putting it out there? You know, a lot of people, you know, it's it's not always easy to kind of just break down in a way and put that out into the world and ask for help or ask for, you know, something good to happen. You know, a lot of people tend to have a block with that too. And you know, there's nothing wrong with that. And I think that, you know, we can go deep into all kinds of crazy, you know, quantum theory, even of how you know our reality is once, you know, like right now behind me, there's nothing exists. I mean, you see it, but like for me, that doesn't exist until I look at it. It's almost like things are rendered and put together as you observe, and we you know see that now. And that's which still blows my mind with like quantum physics and how like particles will react differently when they're being observed and when they're not being observed, you know. So it shows that like just our observation and our intentions do change our environment. You know, there's a whole um experiment with uh water molecules where this Japanese scientist froze them and projected positive and negative energy to them. And the ones that he projected positive energy to created these beautiful crystals. When he looked at them under a microscope and froze it, they were like these beautiful symmetrical crystals, but he would project love to it and caring and you know, literally talk to the water saying nice things. And then he did the opposite. He would project negativity and be like, I hate you, I'm gonna kill you. These things to this water. And when he froze that water after projecting negative energy, it formed these disfigured, malfigured, ugly looking, non-symmetrical crystals.

Tim Nealon 58:43

Yeah.

Jay Wasley 58:43

And then he would repeat it and you would do it opposite and kind of take the negative water and now project love to it, and then all of a sudden it would form beautiful crystals.

Tim Nealon 58:50

See, that's why you guys need to start being nicer to me. Like you guys think I'm just a dick, it's just the way that you guys are projecting your uh negative emotions on me while everybody back there.

Jay Wasley 59:00

Well, it's kind of the same thing, you know. You think about it, like how you know, almost uh what do you call it? Like how it spreads too. You know, you could start your day and you could be in a the best mood. You know, you just wake up and you're feeling good. You go to your local coffee shop, you're feeling good. You know, someone goes in the shop before you and like slams the door on you and doesn't hold it for you. Right. And you're like, oh, it kind of takes you down a notch. It's a little bit of a negativity. Now you go up to the counter and the person like doesn't hear you or gets your order wrong. Now you're naturally gonna be like, oh, you pass that negativity a little more. You're gonna be a little more negative, and then you go home and you get into an argument. You know, it just spreads, you know, but it's the same thing with positive energy, you know. Yeah, if a different, if that person held the door open, was like, oh, come on in, go ahead, you know. Like you go up there and then you're like, Oh, it's a beautiful day and you're feeling good, and like that energy spreads, you know, wherever you go, you know, and I think that's plays back into the power of prayer or meditation or whatever you want to call it, uh, is that you know, the use of positive and negative energy. Are you projecting positive energy or are you projecting negative energy? What are you putting into the world? And I do believe like what you put into the world is what you get back. And you see that, you know, with a lot of people that in a negative sense, there's a lot of people that are like, you know, I'll never get through this. I'm, you know, I'm even I'm cursed or I have this problem, or I'm always gonna, you know, I'm never gonna make it, I'm gonna do this. They always put themselves down. It's always negative, negative, negative. And those people most likely will stay in that negative cycle. You know, and it's until they can break it and start projecting positive energy and be like, you know, no, I'm gonna do this. It might take a while, but I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna stick with it, I'm gonna, you know, in a sense, fake it till you make it and just have that positive energy. It's gonna shift and it will come back to you.

Tim Nealon 1:00:40

So, so how does this this that thought process relate to you guys when you're doing investigations? Because you know, we're we're kind of saying, like, hey, you know, positive uh intentions, positive things tend to produce positive things, you know, more positive things. Um and and you guys are known for uh dealing with negative stuff. So a sincere question that sounds like I'm being a dick, but I promise that I'm not. Like, do you guys feel that do you think that maybe you guys are always dealing with negative things because maybe it's a projection of some like inner turmoil or you know what I mean? I'm not that you're a shitty person because you actually sound like a really cool, nice guy. I'm not saying that at all. But like, like is that some expression of like, you know, uh past trauma or or like some negative in you that you that when you guys out go out and do these investigations, you tend to encounter more negative things? Or is that just the perception that the public has because of what we see on TV?

Jay Wasley 1:01:35

Right.

Neutral Mindset During Investigations

Jay Wasley 1:01:36

I don't think it's anything with us directly. You know, I think generally we're all good people. Um I mean, everybody has their own traumas and things in life, but I don't think it's necessary a manifestation of that. I have thought at times that when we've encountered dark entities or spirits or demons, whatever you want to call it, whatever when we have a dark entity, I do feel these things have followed us. Like we've filmed in different locations where all of a sudden we're like, whoa, that feels just like what we felt at Demon House. Like, does that did that come there with us? Like, you know, so I do feel like there's been times where like this darkness almost can travel with us around. Um, but also we are going in these places that have dark history too. So there's always something new that's you know coming out with it. Um yeah, no, I don't think it's anything with us. I think, you know, I think a lot of the positive that I talk about is stuff that you know we try to do afterwards. Like we don't we don't go into an investigation, you know, hoping for terrible things to happen or you know, putting out negative energy. It's kind of, you know, I approach it almost neutral, where like I don't want to be overly happy, I don't want to be overly negative. Like I'm just kind of here to observe and I go in blank as possible and then kind of truly experience what happens. And then afterwards is when I'm like, all right, I'm gonna basically take a positivity bath and like engulf myself in everything I can to make sure anything negative I experience doesn't linger and bring me down. Um but during the investigation, like I said, I'm kind of just open to you know the experience. And I think it changes with the locations, you know. Uh I tend to do a lot of rituals on the show and kind of dive into the mysticism of things. And, you know, I've had questions and people are like, Oh, like, are you a witch or you do this? And I'm like, I'm no, I'm not. I'm I'm a dude. I don't know. I don't want to even say I'm a scientist, but I'm a I'm a quest for knowledge. I want to know what happens. And if we go to a location and they're like, hey, we think these hauntings are here because these people are doing these crazy rituals. Well, what if I do the ritual? Is that going to elicit the response? Is it gonna bring on? So it's it's more of a research, it's more of an experiment. It's not me being like, This is my belief system, and I'm doing these things to just do it. I'm doing that because that's what happens in these places, and that and it comes down to trying to tap into the energy of what's there. Um, yeah, so I'm not like I said, I'm you know, kind of all over the place answer your question. It's like it's not, you know, going in and trying to manifest something negative, but it's also going in and trying to tap into what is the historically, what is the energy of that location. Right. You know, if it is rituals, we're gonna try to tap into that. If it is something, you know, you know, even not that we're trying to tap into it, but even if it's negative, we go to a place where like there was a mass murder, you know, someone chopped up a family with an axe. Like it's gonna be tough. Like just talking those stories, learning the history, doing the interviews, things like that, it all has a negative energy because it is negative. The story's negative, it's a sad, terrible tragedy, you know. And I think that doing that as well is, you know, kind of unknowingly putting that energy back into it and making things kind of, you know, give us more evidence and basically be able to manifest and have more of the uh experiences that we do.

Tim Nealon 1:04:55

Well, you guys uh you you I mean, you said it yourself. You guys are kind of known for going to these places that that the perception is they they tend to be more dark in nature, you know, harbor, you know, darker entities, you know, more malevolent stuff. You guys kind of have the reputation for doing that. Um has there ever been, and I'm sure there is, has there ever been one location that has affected you either positively or negative, negatively, much more than any other location that you've been to?

Jay Wasley 1:05:21

Yeah, I would say so far, I mean, a lot of places affect for different reasons.

Demon House And Credible Witnesses

Jay Wasley 1:05:26

I think some that stick out to me is uh the Demon House, which was in Gary, Indiana. Uh, that was actually a documentary that Zach and I produced together. Uh, he bought the house and we would go out there between filming episodes and we made a feature length documentary on this house. And I think that place was unique. One, because we spent so much time there. You know, when we do a regular episode, we're very limited on how much time we have. So we're kind of in and out. Um, but this we were able to really spend a lot of time there. And I think for me, that was probably one of the most darkest evil places that just anybody that went to. House had issues, you know, even if it was just like because we were there for a long time. So we had a guy come install the internet and he would have all these problems. You know, a person would come in to you know help us install security cameras and they would have issues when they leave, or you know, we would do an interview with the chief of police and he would leave and he would have an issue. Like it was just everybody that went to this house just had problems. And you know, so for me, that's definitely one of the most places that's just you know, whatever is going on there, it's very dark and evil. Uh, another one that really affected me personally, and honestly, all of us, or you can go ahead and if you want.

Tim Nealon 1:06:32

Yeah, I was gonna say, you know, for for people that uh might not know what the demon house is or they they haven't seen the documentary. Um, you know, in a in a you know, you don't got to go into the full detail because we could be here all day, but what what was that house known for? And why was it called the Demon House?

Jay Wasley 1:06:48

Yeah, so the Demon House basically got fame. It was kind of funny because I remember I was flying out to shoot somewhere, uh, an episode, and I remember seeing a news article that came out. Uh, it was this family in Gary, Indiana that were living in this house, and they were being investigated by social workers, the police, uh, things like that, because the children started missing school. They started showing up with bruises and injuries, things like that. And when they got questioned, investigated, they were claiming that it was actually possession in the house, that there were these demons that were living in the house. Um, many spirits, I forget how many, like I think even over a hundred, like a psychic claim that there was like living in this house. And, you know, so coarse they investigated it, you know, ideally for child abuse. But uh what made this case special is that so many credible people, like the police, you know, social workers, um, they witnessed these paranormal experiences happen while they were investigating this family for abuse, they started experiencing these paranormal things firsthand. Um, there was even a story where the kid was in the hospital and a social worker was in there, like talking to them and working, and the kid started like speaking in tongues basically, and like ran backwards up the wall onto the ceiling and flipped down, and you know, just all these like really like outrageous claims. But because they're from so many credible people, like even the chief of police, detectives, things like that. Um, and then even they brought in a priest to perform an exorcism on the family, things like that. Um, you know, it was fascinating. And I remember seeing the article when the news came out, and that's why kind of everyone jumped on it because it was so many credible witnesses. Um, and then literally as soon as I landed, I don't know if Zach texted me or I texted him like to kind of share the article, but he's like, Hey, do you seen this? I was like, Yeah, I was just looking at it. And he's like, Yeah, I'm I'm tracking down the owner. I'm gonna buy the house. Like we got to go there. And I'm like, Yeah, let's do it. Right. You know, and so right away it just became this, you know, multi-year project that we worked on. And, you know, um, and like I said, it backed itself up, you know, they kind of nicknamed it the Demon House, and we stuck with it because our experiences there were dark, it was evil, it was, you know, literally, like I said, every person that would come into that house would have problems. I had a camera guy that I brought out that totally had a mental breakdown, lost himself, and we actually had to send him home early. Um, and I remember him, it wasn't in the documentary, but we're sitting in a stairwell at the hotel because he had like this freak out. And if you see the documentary, it's in there. Uh, and him and I are sitting in the stairwell. This is off camera, and I'm like, hey man, look, you know, uh, we just booked you a plane ticket tomorrow. Here's your flight. Like, we're just gonna send you back home. No worries. We love you. Like, yeah, it's all good, but just go home, chill. And he's like, he's breaking down, he's crying. He's like, Look, Jay, he's like, you know, I'm into this stuff. Like, he's like into you know, death metal, like kind of that stuff. He's like, I love the darkness in that world, but he's like, I didn't believe any of it. I didn't believe one thing. He's like, I thought you guys were all bullshit, but you know, he's like more than happy to be here and film with you guys. He's like, I've been here three days and you've totally changed my reality. You've changed my belief system, you've shown me that this stuff is real, and it literally like cracked his brain. It basically made him lose his mind and just freak out. Um, and I believe him, he was like I say, he was breaking down crying. And you know, this wasn't for cameras, this was just him and I, like, you know, kind of just friend to friend, being like, hey man, like yeah, you're gonna be okay. And I remember him going home and he would text me, like, oh, this just happened now, and like things were happening, and you know, it really, it really shook him up. And you know, it kind of, you know, shows too, like kind of to go way back in the podcast earlier when you're talking about people that don't believe this to be real, is like, this is real. Like, this is someone that was a friend of mine that I brought in that didn't believe anything. And like he said, his words, three days with us, it totally changed his perspective of the world and his belief system.

Tim Nealon 1:10:40

You know, it is it is kind of I don't know if fun is the right word. I don't actually don't think it is, but it's very interesting to be around somebody when they have that that switch. You know, we used to uh, you know, ghost city, the company here, we used to do ghost hunts all over the country where we'd rent famous haunted locations, you know, Mansfield, you know, Bobby Mackeys before they tore it down and everything. And you know, people would come join us. Inevitably, half the people that would show up for these events don't believe in ghosts. You know, they were dragged along, you know, by a husband or a wife or or whatever. Uh many, many times though, the the non-believers were the ones during the course of those events, not as dramatic as the event that you just described, I don't think. But, you know, oh, this something happened. And and I'm thinking, like, cool, tell me more. And they're like, no, you don't understand. This is not cool for me. Like, I everything you just described, I never believed. I never and and I just saw a fucking woman walk in front of me and disappear through the wall. They're like, I I need to get the fuck out of here. And yeah, um, so yeah, maybe fun isn't the right word, you know, fun at their expense.

Jay Wasley 1:11:40

Yeah, definitely exciting. It's and it's also it it's nice to see the validation of someone that doesn't believe, suddenly believing. You're like, all right, like, yeah, thank you. Yeah, like we've been trying to tell you this, and I'm glad you're finally experiencing it and seeing it and believing it for yourself.

Tim Nealon 1:11:55

Yeah. Well, you you were gonna mention another location, then I totally interrupted you and was like, tell me more about the demon house. What was the other location that you

Goatman’s Bridge And Lasting Fallout

Tim Nealon 1:12:02

had in mind?

Jay Wasley 1:12:02

Uh, the other location that I feel like affected definitely all of us in a very negative way was Goatman's Bridge, uh, in Denton, Texas. Um, that place was just pure evil and still is to this day. Like, I encounter fans all the time that are like, Oh, yeah, I went out there and terrible things happened. And really, I think with that one, uh, we did it as we had a special. We did it was a two-part special called uh Route 666, where we basically took Route 66 and we we stopped in El Paso and we did an episode there in an old hotel, which was absolutely crazy too. Like the evidence we caught there was insane. And then we went on to this place called Goat Man's Bridge and filming there, it was you know, it's the woods, it's just nature. You know, there's no structure to be like, oh, this is spooky, it's literally just woods. And no mirror on woods can be scary at night, but this place they felt there was something dark there. It was like a the story was like there was this goat herder that would hurt his goats back in the day, and then unfortunately the the clan came in and killed him and hung them, and it was just a brutal, terrible, you know, unforgivable crime. And basically his spirit is just there and pissed off, or it opened up something dark, basically, that allowed, you know. And that's the thing too. I think when something really negative happens in a space, it does let in more negativity. Yeah. So sometimes it's not even like this, you know, it's not like this goat herder is this evil entity creature now that's hurting people. But I think the terrible, outrageous thing that happened to him opened, opens up that negativity and allows more negative, you know, entities, if you will, if you want to call them demons, whatever it allows them to come through because of the act that occurred there. And it just terrorizes people. Everybody that goes there, and we were doing interviews, and it kept affecting women mostly. And I would we were there, and uh, my wife at the time, she was our behind-the-scenes photographer, so she would take like promo pics, things like that. Um, and we looked over and she was just not looking herself and she was being affected. And we remember asking, like, are you okay? And she's like, No, I'm getting these thoughts. Like, I want to hurt you guys, like, I just want to like attack you guys and hurt you, and I'm not doing good. So obviously, we turned to her and we're like, you know, we want to document this and experience this. And I give her all the credit in the world. She wanted to go out and face it during the investigation, and she did. She went out by herself into the woods and faced this, which is, you know, like I said, more props than anybody to be able to like have that experience, but then be like, no, I want to, I'm not gonna let it, you know, overtake me. Um, unfortunately, she did. She got affected really bad. And, you know, we ultimately ended up, she left the show after that, and you know, we started having problems at home. It just lingered and stuck with us. And that was definitely a time period where there was such a dark, negative cloud going on. Um, you know, and I think it was there was it was just like a buildup of a lot. There was the goat man's bridge. It was also around the same time we were doing Demon House as well. So I think it was just like this onslaught of just a whole lot of negative energy that was really just coming home with us and affecting us, and it ultimately led to us splitting up and becoming divorced. Um, you know, and she basically got out of the paranormal field and you know, kind of had to get away from it 100%. And, you know, it seems like she's finally better over, you know, yeah, basically staying away from it as long as possible. Um, but that one really affected home. It really was like a dark, you know, that was probably the first real time where I was like, whoa, like this is really like this darkness can really affect our lives and all of us. I mean, I remember Aaron got thrown, you know, like a good 20, 30 feet, and like he just still to this day, like we'll talk about it. He bugs out and doesn't know what happened to him. You know, to him, he was like, I was standing over here, and then all of a sudden I wake up like 20, 30 feet away and I'm on the ground. You know, and you know, there was just so much that happened to all of us. Even Zach, like kind of was something overtook him and he started choking himself. And, you know, at first I was like, What are you doing, man? And then like I actually pried his hands off his neck and his fingers were like dug into his neck, like it was hard, and you know, and I had to like wrestle him down and like stop him from hurting himself. And you know, it was just that place for some reason like really affected all of us. And you know, it's still to this day probably one of the ones that I'm like, yep, that spot that that that fucked with us.

Tim Nealon 1:16:14

Yeah, I I see I would never if you'd have said, Hey Tim, why don't you guess what the location is? I would have never guessed the Goatman's bridge. Um, so but you know, the the you know, everything else that you described, like the after effects, you know, it you know, I I gave you a little bit of insight into, you know, I used to be on the road probably six months out of the year doing these paranormal investigations. So we were always in these haunted locations. I mean, not as much as you guys are, because quite frankly, I quit doing it quite as much. But it was it was and by the way, nothing that happened to me was quite as dramatic as the things that you just described, you know, Aaron's experience, Zach's experience. But yeah, I mean, going to all these locations. I mean, there were a couple really bad ones that that it seemed like these things were following me home, which by the way, I I used to believe that was nonsense. It was like, ah, they're not following you home. They can go wherever they want to. Um, but then yeah, like there was the you know, that experience at Old South Pittsburgh Hospital that I got a little bit into. I mean, I it it almost got to a point where I couldn't even be friends with anybody. It was just like this, this you kind of talked about this negativity breeds negativity aspect to it. And it's like once it got its hooks in, you know, just bit by bit, it felt like it was just chipping away at everything that felt sane or safe or uh normal to the point like I I really didn't have any friends. I was isolated. Um everything in my life was falling apart. Um and like I said, I think the only reason I want to you know, it would be really easy just to be like, well, that all happened because of a ghost experience. Because then everybody could just blame everything that happened bad to them on a ghost or something. But like I said, that combined with you know, the like the dreams I was having, the visions, like all these horrific things that I don't even like talking about. Um you know, I put that all together and and it really felt like something very negative. Um I hate to use the word attached, but I guess maybe that's what it is, you know. It was like two years before I was able to finally start feeling better. Um so you know, maybe people need to be a little bit more careful when they jump into this

Attachments And Knowing When To Stop

Tim Nealon 1:18:20

field. Um 100%.

Jay Wasley 1:18:21

It's kind of funny when people are like, oh yeah, you guys got us into doing this. I'm like, oh, sorry about that. You know, like like I said earlier, like it's humbling and I'm happy to, you know, know that we inspired, but also it's like, yeah, like please be careful, like don't just and that's kind of why I was saying, like, figure out your own way. Like, don't just copy us, like, don't just dive in there headfirst and go, you know, crazy with it. Cause like it can mess up your life. Like these things can affect you, and you know, the more you do it, like it's a numbers game. Like, the more you do it, chances are it will mess something up. And I've seen it happen personally, I've seen it happen with the guys, I've seen it happen to you know, friends of ours that we've lost over the years that you know just literally got overtaken by these things. So it's you know, there should be a disclosure on everything. Like, you know, one if you're really gonna do this, like be aware of what you're getting into, be aware of the consequences that could happen, but more importantly, know when enough is enough. Like, you know, like we're at a point where like we're we're we're crossed that line. Like we've been doing this so long, we've done stuff that's like so in-depth and so dark that like it's just it's what we do now. Like we've crossed that line, we're in it, we're we're the ones that are doing this. But if you're just starting off, there's no need to be diving into it that dark and that

The End Game Of The Unknown

Jay Wasley 1:19:38

deep.

Tim Nealon 1:19:38

Do you ever see a point where uh you know, not just ghost adventures, but what the the the stuff below that actually drives your passion for the subject. Do you ever see that going away? Like, like do you is there an end game to any of this for you?

Jay Wasley 1:19:53

No, I mean, I guess I mean, no, because I love it. I love being able to explore it. I love still being able to figure it out. And, you know, we still are looking for answers. We still don't know everything, we still don't know exactly what it all is. So I feel, you know, if for some reason, and like I don't know if that's a question we'll ever truly be able to answer, we can get close, right? But like I kind of mentioned earlier, I think the only way to truly know is when we do die. Um, or if for some reason science suddenly comes through and are like, hey, we finally discovered this, this is what it all is, and we're a hundred percent solid that this is exactly what it is, and it's like, oh, okay. But then even then, it's still like it's still the rush of like, all right, experiencing these, you know, weird paranormal phenomena and these variables that like, you know, even if it is understandable how it happens or why it happens, like, I don't know. I still think it would be exciting and fun to be able to go out and experience and document it, you know, even if we know, like, oh, it is like a weird, you know, there's a fabric, you know, rip in the fabric of reality that time periods overlap or whatever ends up being, you know, like I don't know. I think it'd still be exciting to go out and try to document these stuff and have these experiences.

Tim Nealon 1:21:04

Yeah, I yeah, I mean, there's a reason why people go still on safaris. You know, we know the animals exist, it's still just a hell of a lot of fun to go look for them and see them and you know experience all that. So exactly. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe, maybe paranormal tourism's only just begun. We like ghost safaris once we figure all this shit out. Um, you know, I I uh of course, people if they want to to see what you you're working on, I mean, the first place they're probably gonna go is go look up ghost adventures or something like that. But you've mentioned, you know, you guys have done a lot of other uh series as well or even documentaries. You talked about Demon House, you talked about Aftershock. Um, I mean, that it seems like you guys are always up to something.

New Seasons And Upcoming Events

Tim Nealon 1:21:45

Um what does the next you know 12, 24 months look like for you guys with the whole TV content production thing?

Jay Wasley 1:21:53

So uh we have uh I'm not sure exactly how they'll split it up, but we've been shooting nonstop. So we have about, I would say at least two seasons worth maybe of episodes that haven't aired yet. Um we're on a little bit of a break now, like we kind of banked a whole bunch of episodes so we finally got a little time off. Um so we're just waiting, you know, just like you guys, we're kind of waiting for the network to let us know when they're gonna start airing them, hopefully sooner than later. But we have a lot of amazing episodes lined up and ready to go, which um for me it's like I can't wait for you know everyone to see these and experience these. Um, but it's kind of nice too to be able to kind of refresh. I'm excited to get out there, I'm excited to get back into it. Um, but I am taking this time to, you know, you know, appreciate this time off to be able to do more conventions, do more things, you know, play more music, do, you know, more stuff with the band and things like that, which is uh which has been really nice to kind of just uh you know focus and pay more attention and that, you know, give that world a little more attention for a bit.

Tim Nealon 1:22:51

Yeah, I did see I did notice on your socials, like you're you're it seems like you're attending a number of conferences or events or something in the next like uh at the end of July, I'm doing a convention in Salt Lake City.

Jay Wasley 1:23:02

Um actually Aaron and I will be there. Uh we're gonna be doing a ghost hunt at the uh great uh Great Soltaire, which uh we filmed an episode there, which was a really cool place. It's uh this old like you know, it's a venue now. Uh so also my band will be playing. Um so it's gonna be a really fun event. Um, doing some other things, working on some other stuff that haven't officially been announced yet. Uh there's another one in Utah, Nomicon, um, I'm gonna be doing and then kind of still working on a few other things that haven't officially been announced yet, but there's a lot more coming. Right. Um, and then yeah, I'm gonna try to play some shows. Uh might even shoot a movie or two while I have this time off.

Tim Nealon 1:23:39

Oh, is that it? Like I'm just gonna randomly shoot a movie.

Jay Wasley 1:23:42

Which is actually I wanted to say when you mention it, uh, I actually just started, you know, it's it's it's like the entertainment world. It's all when it's early on, you know, who knows if it's gonna happen. But I was just had a meeting yesterday where uh they were asking me to be the director of photography for a uh basically a Bigfoot film, uh big scripted, you know, horror film, but it's based around, you know, the idea of Sasquatch and Bigfoot.

Tim Nealon 1:24:04

Well, if you ever want to get any practice, um I don't I don't know what your fall looks like, but we're actually going back uh for two weeks into the woods of Oregon with Cliff. Um they they used to have that show Finding Bigfoot. I don't know if you ever saw it or not. Um, but if you're ever looking for a side side gig, it's really funny. We've been looking for a really good audio person to come along with us on some of these trips. If you're ever bored and you want to make some extra money and you want to go look for real Bigfoot instead of you know, right? You can just replace Paul and I. Uh yeah.

Jay Wasley 1:24:33

Yeah, let me

Bigfoot, Cryptids, And The Woods

Jay Wasley 1:24:34

know.

Tim Nealon 1:24:34

I still got my sound kit ready to go. That's because these guys, they actually had to traipse through the the woods and stuff. But we actually, I I don't know your feelings on Bigfoot or anything like that, but um, I think it's great.

Jay Wasley 1:24:44

I mean, I one of my earliest paranormal experiences, you know, it's still paranormal in a way, is you know, not necessarily Bigfoot, but I grew up in New Jersey, it's just outside of Philly. So, like, you know, there was a place called the Pine Barrens where like the Jersey devil lived, and there was like a lot of lore about like creatures and things and cryptids, and you know, not necessarily Bigfoot specifically, but I do feel like I witnessed some kind of creatures out there. Um, I remember being a teenager and going out there and just hanging out in the woods. And, you know, I remember one night uh my friend and I, we literally got chased by some kind of dark entity creature that was running at us, and we just got out of there. We didn't stick around to really figure out what it was, but we ran so fast and was so scared. And you know, I could only describe it as like it was taller than an animal, but it was shorter than a human, right? It was just very dark, and it was just you know, you could just feel that it was terrifying and didn't have good intention. Um well, Bigfoot aren't always nine feet.

Tim Nealon 1:25:39

Yeah, Bigfoot aren't always nine feet, they have to grow to get there. So you never know. Maybe it was a maybe it was a little bigger. Yeah, it could have been a younger one, who knows? Yeah, they're they're pretty cool. We actually experienced things in the woods, it was actually really cool. Um, and now there's this whole thing with Bigfoot where everybody thinks that um, you know, like people are seeing orbs and Bigfoots together and they're thinking that they're somehow related. I don't think they are at all. Um, but it's weird how even the Bigfoot subjects wanting to take a turn into the ghostly spiritual realm.

Jay Wasley 1:26:07

Well, I've seen things like where they talk about Bigfoot's as even like an interdimensional being, and that's like all these cryptids, like you know, even think of like leprechauns and you know, fairies and you know, all these other, you know, mythological creatures that people talk about, you know, throughout history. So there's something to it, like, you know, if thousands of years and multiple cultures are telling these stories, like there's something to them, you know, that shows that they existed in some way. But a lot of the, you know, which kind of makes sense, if they are not necessarily like in this realm, there's another realm or another dimension, whatever you want to call it, then they can pass in and out. And that's why they're so elusive. That's why like you see them for a second and you almost blink and they're gone. It's because like, and it's like with thing, like, oh, they become like, oh shit, they're watching me, they're aware, and they're like, gotta get out of here. They kind of get out of there.

Tim Nealon 1:26:53

I think there's a lot. I think a lot of times people try, if they can't explain something right away, and I and I'm certain you've seen this in the ghost world too. If they just can't explain something rationally, they automatically want to chalk it up to you know, it must be paranormal, it must be on beyond our understanding. With Bigfoot in particular, I just think they're really good at avoiding people, you know, and they use terrain and all these things to their advantage. I mean, we we've seen them where uh or I've seen video where, you know, it looks like they're just standing wide in the open and then you know, the next second they're gone. But what it was is the person shooting the video didn't realize that there was a a dip there. Um so it it actually just dipped down behind the terrain, and it's like, no, it didn't need to walk through a portal, it just laid down. Right.

Jay Wasley 1:27:37

And I'm on I'm on that path too, you know. Like I like the idea of the interdimensional being, I just think it's fascinating. But also I'm with it just that being like these are creatures that evolve that you know, there's not that many of them living, and they're just kind of elusive living out in the wild, and you know, makes me jealous that they've become very good at hiding and staying away from being seen, and you know, and yeah, that's why there's like little mini crossovers. But you know, it makes sense that something could have evolved and just lives out, you know, like even the oceans, you know, like yeah, how much of them are actually explored, and you know, there's so much natural land that you know, I feel a lot of it's been explored, but it's not being explored 24-7 all the time, you know. So then there's just these vast areas of woods and forests that you know it doesn't surprise me that stuff could live out there that we don't really know and understand.

Tim Nealon 1:28:25

Well, like I said, if you ever want real-world Bigfoot experience, if you get that job, it might help you out. Oh yeah.

Jay Wasley 1:28:31

Absolutely, I might take you up on that.

Tim Nealon 1:28:32

Shoot us a message, we'll see what we can work out. Um all

Where To Follow Jay

Tim Nealon 1:28:36

right. Well, you know, aside from you know, watching you on TV, if people wanted to keep up with you and what's going on in in Jay's world, where would they, where would they find you?

Jay Wasley 1:28:43

Yeah, uh on social media. I'm on uh pretty much Instagram, Facebook, TikTok is Jay Wazley Film. Um I'm on X is Jay Wazley. Uh that's pretty much it. I don't think there's so many different social medias, but those are kind of the main ones I do right now. Um, but yeah, that's where you can kind of follow me. I post, you know, if I'm doing events, anything that's coming up, you know, when we know when there's new episodes, we'll be posting right away there so people can find out when we're uh we're gonna be coming back.

Tim Nealon 1:29:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I'm sure there's tons of people out there that are anxiously awaiting new episodes. I think the I think the joke I used at the Paracon was you guys are the the show that refuses to die. Uh you just keep going on and on and on and on and on and on uh while all the other guys are bunny and paranormal. That's right. All right, Jay. Well, I really appreciate you taking time to to stop and talk with us today. And uh hope you had a little bit of fun as well. And uh yeah, 100%. And thanks for joining us on the podcast. Absolutely. Thank you.

Sponsor Message And Sign Off

Producer 1:29:40

This episode was brought to you by Ghost City Tours, your guide to the haunted side of history in over 30 cities nationwide. From restless spirits to unsolved mysteries, our tours bring the dead back to life. Book now for a haunted city near you at ghostcitytours.com. Be sure to subscribe to the Ghost City Podcast on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, and wherever you get your podcast. And remember, stay spooky.