Episode 11 - Matt Jacobs

Segment 1:

This segment explores healing from past relationships, trust rebuilding, and personal growth. Cody and Mariah share insights, listener stories, and practical advice on overcoming hurt, setting boundaries, and finding love again.

 keywords:
relationships, healing, trust, boundaries, personal growth, dating, emotional walls, therapy, love, self-worth

Segment 2:

In this segment, Cody reconnects with Matt Jacobs, a former metal podcast host turned horror gaming content creator and board game designer. They explore Matt's journey from local metal scene roots to designing innovative board games, sharing insights on creativity, perseverance, and the love of art. In this engaging podcast episode, hosts Cody and Mattexplore a wide range of topics including horror gaming, local music scenes, and nostalgic reflections on music and media. They share personal stories, gaming favorites, and insights into the evolving landscape of entertainment and community connection.

 keywords:
board games, game design, podcasting, metal music, local scene, game development, playtesting, creativity, passion, overcoming obstacles horror games, local music, podcasting, gaming, music scene, nostalgia, community, entertainment

Follow Matt: 

linktr.ee/pnwbeard 

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:17

You are listening to the Liquid Shape Podcast with your host, Cody Perez.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

Welcome everyone to another episode of the Liquid Shape Podcast with Cody Perez.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

And right along, fellow.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

Yeah. This week has been a good, busy, crazy week, hasn't it? Uh sure. I'm I'm excited. I mean, yeah. It has been, but I'm just, I'm, I'm, we're just getting into this. And I before I knew it, I already had to post the question of the week. And I had to figure out what I'm gonna what episode I'm gonna post out and promoting the last week's episode or that we would push and whatnot. So it's been crazy. How you how have you been doing?

SPEAKER_01 0:56

I'm doing good, man.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Just living life, just doing my thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

And we have Gremlins right here with us, like always. They're right by our side. So shout out to Taz and Lorenzo, or shout out from Taz and Lorenzo, I should say.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

They're fucking licking everything.

SPEAKER_02 1:09

They're licking everything. So they're right by on Mariah's lap here in the studio by the microphone. So I always say this if you hear some weird sniffing or licking or whatever, it's not us, I swear. It's the dog. I don't know about you, but I ain't passed nothing.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Well, the sniffing. What? You said the sniffing and licking.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

Oh my god, the sniffing. What's the sniffing? I was going to coke, but Jesus. Wow. Okay. All right. Well, yeah, I mean, this week.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

What's what's uh new in your world, Betes?

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Just working a lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Thoughtin' and plotting.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Thoughtin' and plotting. I'm trying to think of what happened this week besides just all the craziness that I have to do with the band stuff. It's always band stuff related and work related, but I am hey buddy, stop.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

They're looking everything.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Yeah, they're gonna be chaotic. It's a beautiful day in Oregon today. It's Saturday morning.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Oh god.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

It is national steak and blowjob day. Like, how can I not be in a happy good mood today? Tell me.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Well, you think you're gonna get a blowjob?

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Why wouldn't I?

SPEAKER_00 2:03

I am a throat goat, so.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

Oh my god. Okay. Well. You're welcome. We don't need to advertise that to everything.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

I know. It's probably not the best.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

But all right. National steak and blowjob day. So we got the steak, but what I don't know if we're gonna do traditional steak. We did steak last night, but we have another steak there to make.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

So I'm probably gonna make it with steak?

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Yours. Yeah. But you didn't know it was national steak and blowjob day.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

I did not. But look at that. That's how amazing. Coincidentally it worked. That's how amazing this brain is.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

Your na your uh natural instincts. It's a great day that men get a day of their own. That makes me happy. It makes me very happy that we get you guys get Valentine's Day. Exactly. And we go all out, the ones that are not pieces of shit, we go all out on you guys. And so today is like our fucking day. Where's my bouquet of flowers?

SPEAKER_01 2:45

I mean, do you want me to get you some of them?

SPEAKER_02 2:46

I don't know. What would what would I have in place of flowers? I mean, that's a given. But I don't know, chips and sauce, maybe? I don't fucking. Food. Food is always a thing.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

That is uh Cody's love language. Yes. Food for sure.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

You cook for me, I'm fucking happy. Oh, you did cook for me this morning. Never mind.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Yeah, I made waffles from scratch.

SPEAKER_02 3:04

Chicken and waffles this morning. I made the chicken, she made the waffles.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

So that was chicken and a chicken.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

Chicken and a dickin.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Shout out to Brick.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

Yeah, that's a shout-out to Brick. And uh this one's for Andrew. What was it? Do the Andrew, do the Andrew wake-up call. That's what he does. My buddy Andrew, he does his videos, and I fucking love it because that's what he does. He does like a sound of a fucking rooster, and it's the way he starts his videos, and it's a fucking classic. I love it. He's gonna be on the show at some point. I already told him I'm getting him on here because he's a fucking character.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

So if you go watch his videos, what is it, red dirt roo or something?

SPEAKER_02 3:34

Red dirt roo on TikTok, yeah. He's hilarious. Shout out to Andrew. So yeah, let's get let's get into it. Because this one's uh kind of I got a lot of response on this one. I think people are all out there love, dating, relationships, all that stuff is a very hot topic. And I love talking about that kind of stuff because I've been through some craziness by my own doing and also by my bad choices of the females I like to choose typically in the past. So can't blame it all on them, can't blame it all on myself. It's a combination, lethal combination of the bad choices I've made in my life. But um, so we'll go with the question of the week and then we'll start reading responses here. So let me read the question of the week so everyone's clear on what that was. After being hurt in past relationships, how do you learn to lower your guard and allow yourself to love again? Sometimes the hardest part of healing from a toxic or painful relationship isn't leaving. It's learning how to trust again. When you've been hurt, betrayed, or emotionally drained, putting your walls up can feel like the safest option. But eventually those same walls that protect you can also keep people out who actually care. Some follow-up questions to consider on this question. What helped you trust someone again after being hurt? Did a specific person help restore your faith in relationships, or was it something you had to learn on your own? How do you know the difference between healthy caution and emotional walls? Is it harder to trust others again or to trust your own judgment after a bad relationship? What signs tell you someone is safe to open up to? What advice would you give someone who is afraid to love again? Do you think people should fully heal before dating again, or can he can healing happen within a new relationship? What personal boundaries help you stay open without getting hurt the same way again? Oh yeah, that's a great question by your one and only sexy Mexi, the satanic Hispanic, the heartbreak Mexican, Cody motherfucking Perez. That's it, dude. I wanted to be a wrestler when I was younger. I swore that I was gonna be a wrestler, and then my career choice changed to being a musician.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Uh what would your wrestler name be?

SPEAKER_02 5:34

Um I never really came up with that. I never got that far into it. I was just into the actual like wrestling. I kind of stole that because my one of my favorite wrestlers was Shawn Michaels. So HBK the Heartbreak Kid, it's that it's the heartbreak Mexican, HBM.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

No, you can't do you can't have BM in your name because that makes me think of bowel movement.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

Oh my god, of course you would. All right, so we'll read the first one here. It says, Dear Cody and Mariah, my name is Courtney and I'm 38 years old. I have had my share fair share of shitty relationships in the past, and in a way, they have a they have shaped me to become who I am today. The one relationship that really made a huge impact on my life was was one that was almost five years long. I was with a guy who I thought was the one, but there were so many red flags that I didn't see until it was too late. One day I couldn't get a hold of him when I went to New York City with my sister to see a Volby concert. Not being able to get a hold of him made me go into the worst feeling of dread that I'll never forget. The next day I found out he was arrested for possession and distribution of C S A M. I'm not sure what that is. Um, okay, so I'll just continue. I was beyond shocked, horrified, and disgusted. Wow, yeah, that's fucked. It felt like my whole entire world just shattered around me, and everything that I thought I'd normal with him, that I was normal with him, was a big fat lie. I left him immediately, and I and I last I heard he was in prison again for the same offense. Mind you, I left him almost 11 years ago. After that disaster, I thought I had found serenity with the next relationship, but it was abuse in another form. Gaslighting. The next guy I dated would purposely not answer my calls or anything, making me feel like something horrible happened. I was with him a year and a half and thought things were getting better. I got I got laid off of my job and his true colors came out. Everything to him had to be perfect, and the fact that I got laid off destroyed his fragile ego. He decided he wanted a two-week break. I left him and then dated another guy who was far worse. By worse, he was a huge gaslighter that cheated on me and then demanded for me to get an IUD, which I didn't do. He made me celebrate Christmas with his family, pretending everything was great, and he dumped me on New Year's Eve 17. For many months after this, I was in a vicious cycle of going on bad dates, hooking up with men who I barely knew, and after a while, I started to feel like garbage. I realized I had to make a big change. I started opening up more to my mom. I got therapy, I listened to my friends, and I'll never forget the advice that my one friend Tiffany, God rest her soul, said to me. Know your worth and don't ever settle for less. I almost gave up on dating altogether, and my late mom told me back in 2018 to give it another chance. My dad and brother flat out told me, date somebody like you. One day while on POF, I stumbled upon my now husband's profile. I shot him a message asking how he was and if he liked metal music. An hour later he wrote back, we exchanged numbers and we went on our first date together on 8818. Love it. Life has been so much better since I met him. We are both alike, but different in so many ways. Sure, we may drive each other nuts sometimes, but no relationship is perfect. My dad always told me that marriage is all about talking things out and compromising. 100% agreed. Not that I know about marriage, but relationships. That's that's the key thing. Uh my parents were almost married 40 years until my mom passed away on 427-25. Oh, I'm sorry. After fighting Parkinson's disease for over 20 years, their love is what I look up to. That's sweet. In conclusion, the people who helped me to heal and find love were my parents. They too had relationships that didn't end well, but one thing is certain, they never gave up on finding true love and happiness. My advice to anyone who's been heartbroken is this: take some time for yourself. Do things that make you happy, surround yourself with a good support system. Don't be afraid to see a therapist for any advice. And most of all, if you see an opportunity to talk to someone, take it. If they don't answer or click with you, it's not the end of the world. There's plenty more people to talk to. Sincerely, Courtney Lashevert.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

Yep, I love this. I agree. Therapy, you've heard me say it a million times. Uh, but just going back to the beginning with the C S A M, I Googled it. It's actually child sexual abuse material, so child pornography. Oh my god, man.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

Fuck that. Hopefully that guy's still in jail and he rots in the game.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Yeah, I'm glad you got away from that situation. I mean, I you know, like I've said a million times with my marriage and stuff like that, that wasn't great. It pulls you down, it wears you down, but you can get away, and I'm so glad that you did. Especially the gaslighting. Gaslighting is the fucking worst. Like that is just a mental mind game. And it sucks. It sucks. So but I'm glad that you had a great friend. Sounds like a couple, like a great friend, your late mom, R I P mama, to help you get through everything in therapy. So I mean, I'll I'll preach therapy till the day I die. But again, keep in mind you gotta find the right person. It might take a couple times, don't get discouraged. Just keep in mind everybody's different, so everybody needs somebody different. So the first therapist you go to may not be the one for you, and that's fine.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

Yeah, and like she said, you went on a bunch of horrible ones. And yeah, I I can 100% relate to that. And here's the thing too, sometimes you think this person might work out and you're dating, but then you realize, okay, I don't see this person as someone serious I could be with. But coming from a guy's perspective, sometimes we're like, well, you know what? They're fun to be around, and why not hang out with them for a little bit? And then I I can see how females would get upset with that because they want to take it to the next level, like have a title on it, but it from a man's perspective, if you just don't see it right away, you're probably not gonna feel it later. I mean, uh sometimes people can grow on you, but I think for men, coming from a man's pers perspective, once you know that uh this person's okay with you just dating them and maybe they're getting the benefits of being in a relationship and you're just giving it away, kind of in a sense, they they're very unlikely to take it to that next level. Yeah. I mean, it's very rare. I can't say it can't happen, but just coming from my experience when I was dating, you gotta make them work for that and earn it and not give it up. So it's like people that have kids. If you have kids and you're dating someone, you probably don't want to notice your kids to them right away. And I know as a man, I I I probably shouldn't be saying this, but if like, for example, if you give sex right away, that guy's gonna be like, okay, well, I can have sex with you, and I can have sex with her, and I can have sex with her, and I'll have to be in a committed relationship. So that's another thing that um and then then the guy's also wondering if you're giving it to me that easily, how many other guys have you given it to and are you giving it to? Not that it's right or wrong for guys or girls to do the same either way, but from a man's perspective, that's that's kind of where our heads are at when we're we see that.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

I mean, I would think women too, because for me, it's like I don't want to I don't want to be with someone that's just or even if it's just sexual, it's like I don't want to be with someone that's just fucking everybody. I don't know. There's just too much gross shit anymore. Gotta be safe.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

All right. Next one. This one is from Nikki Bolt. And she says, After being hurt in past relationships, how do you learn to lower your guard and allow yourself to love again? So she's answering these questions in this way. She says, I was in a very controlled relationship with my son's donor. He monitored he monitored every call, text, social media posts, money. I wasn't even allowed to drive myself. There was a lot, there was also a lot of abuse in that relationship. Mental, emotional, financial, sexual. My husband and I have been married for almost four years now. And while I fully know and trust he would never do any of those, I haven't let my guard down completely. Those kinds of abuse that those kinds of abuse sticks with you. Slowly, my guard is lowering because I know my husband deserves to have me 100%.

unknown 13:07

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

I mean I can't. She's not done, but just this part, uh just kind of coming back to abuse. I mean, with my ex-husband, it was financial too. I mean, he had all these other checking accounts, and then we just I just had the one, which was our joint one. Um he would if he was the slightest like mad at me or whatever, because it he's mad for me breathing pretty much, right? Um, he would drain our checking account. He wouldn't be around because he would travel for work and whatnot. So there was one time I was at one of my um best friends' weddings states away on the east coast. We lived in Colorado. I don't know, he got all jealous of I mean, I'm I'm literally sharing a bed with her and her mom. Nothing weird's going down, and he was just so jealous and off his rocker, he drained our checking account to where I had no money, and I'm 2,000 miles from home. So I mean, this shit, it can be wild. It can be wild. So I'm glad you got out of that.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

So she continues on and says for this question what helped you trust someone again after being hurt? She says, I've known my husband since senior year of high school. We dated briefly after graduating, went separate ways, but found our way back to each other. He communicates with me, asks about my day, how I'm feeling, etc. I'm still learning how to let my guard down with certain things. I think knowing him for so long and being able to talk to him about anything going on without judgment has helped me trust a little more. The next question was, did a specific person help restore your faith in relationships, or was it something you had to learn on your own? And Nikki says, My husband is restoring my faith even more so than ever had than I had ever had before. However, I did not trust anyone to be completely with them. I did not let them fully know fully of what happened in my past relationship because honestly, I did not feel they were trustworthy as they were, as they were always talking about someone else's personal things, they were told in confidence. Yeah, that that's that's a that's a huge red flag when people do that. It's like, okay, if you're tall telling someone else's business as personal, you're gonna do the same thing with me. So I don't blame you for that. How do you know the difference between healthy, caution, and emotional walls? Nikki says, before my husband, I had I had walls up in damn near every aspect. I didn't want to trust anyone because not only did I not want to put myself through anything like that again, I didn't want my son to think treating someone like that was ever okay. Now I've got emotional walls up because I don't want to tell him certain things. The reason being is I don't want it used against me like it was done before. I know with every fiber of my being my husband won't do this, but I'm not sure how I can break that cycle of thinking and feeling. The next question was, is it harder to trust others again or trust your own judgment after a bad relationship? Nikki says, This question goes hand in hand. If you don't trust your own judgment, how are you able to trust others? I do not trust a lot of people because of not only that relationship, but prior friendships as well. I do not trust my own judgment sometimes because of what had happened prior. If it happened then, I it could happen again. Next question was what signs tell you someone is safe to open up to? And Nikki says, I don't think there are any signs. You have to pay attention to how the person responds, whether it's with you telling them something, asking them something, how they treat you when around their friends and family. If your significant other is truly all in for you, they will not shy away from defending you, no matter how small or trivial it is. I 100% agree with that, and I believe that with not just your relationships and your and and your person you're with, but also your your friends and your family, man, that you care about. Like 100%, you should always have their back. Not if someone's talking shit, join in and be like, yeah, well, blah, blah, blah, blah, this and that. Like they're this and that. Like, I hate that. And I've I've had so many friends that are like that, and it's like those people, and you can write them off very easily. You don't need them in your fucking life. Um, okay. The next one was, I believe, what advice, what advice would you give someone who is afraid to love again? And Nikki says, pay attention. Don't give, don't dive in right away. There's a big difference between a potential partner saying they love you versus being in love with you and how quickly they drop that word. That's very true. So love is thrown so much around. I don't even believe it anymore. Love and best friend and bestie, all that shit gets thrown around so much that you just can't. I I just don't take it seriously anymore. Next question Do you think people should fully heal before dating again? Or can you can healing help within a new relationship? And Nikki says, every person is different and has a different outlook. I don't think someone can fully heal after a relationship dissipates. A new partner can help you heal, but depending on the damage that was done, it may take a while for one to fully heal whether in a relationship or not. I'm going on 13 years after my son's donor and I still shut down when my husband is direct when he's frustrated at something. Last or next question. What personal boundaries help you stay open without getting hurt the same way again? And Nikki says, talking through things, my husband and I actually talk. Perfect example. A couple of weekends ago, we had our youngest son in the backyard with us. There's a part of the yard that's dug up, and I was afraid of him falling in and getting hurt. My oldest was helping keep an eye on him and as well as us, but my husband felt as if we were saying he wasn't watching him. I went to go I went to go get my youngest son, and my husband raised his voice and said, I've got him. I've after being yelled at in prior relationships, I shut down and walked away. My husband actually stopped me and we talked about it. He reassured me that he did not mean it in a disrespectful tone and said it made him feel like my son and I were ganging up on him and saying he wasn't doing a good job at watching our youngest. For about 20 minutes, we just talked. He explained how he felt, I explained how I felt, and we were good. I love that. That's communication, man.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

Communication station, baby.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

Yes. She says, not sure if you wanted me to trauma dump or not, but a little history to help understand my answers. Nikki, thank you so much. I love hearing that. No, I love details because this helps. Like I guarantee you, someone out there can relate to everything you just said here, including myself. I'd relate. So thank you for sharing, and please continue to do anytime you uh we have a question, feel free to share. And there's no such thing as oversharing. Unless I'm reading like a 20-page novel, which I mean literally 20 pages, then we might have to be like, all right, we gotta shorten this. But thank you for answering those, Nikki. And uh any thoughts overall on that?

SPEAKER_01 19:08

Well, like I'm I mean, just what I covered on the first section, but I totally understand, you know, where you Nikki, where you said like you st you still have your walls up, I still do that with Cody. And a lot of that stems from my marriage and whatnot, too, just being screamed at all the time. Like just everything was just chaos all the time. And so whenever I feel like Cody's like says something to me wrong, or just his body language is different, it's like I just pick up on it and I'm like, what the fuck did I do? Like I just I then I get defensive because then I go into protection like mode for myself. Like, why'd you say it like that? Or like, what do you mean? Like, are you giving me attitude? Like, I didn't do anything, like I'm doing the best I can when really that's not what it was at all, you know? So it's just learning, obviously finding a partner that works with you and that you can communicate with and stuff is huge, but again, just communication in general is always huge.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

Agreed. Yes, I I like I said, I I I agree with all the stuff that's in here, and it's hard when someone is it sometimes you don't understand like why someone is reacting a certain way, because you just might be in your normal voice or you know, just but you don't also know, like maybe like like she said her husband felt like he was getting ganged up against him and he wasn't like taking care of business. And I could totally see how that a situation like that was just talking it out, and then you understand like now like his perspective and for sure.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

And it's just I mean, I I know this was like a situation all of its own, but like for say like me and you, a lot of times for me, it's just realizing like I know when to approach you and when when not to, because especially like times right now, like you're scheduling like AOD stuff, you have a lot going on, so I know like when you're on your phone and doing stuff, it's not the time to like have a conversation or try to make a joke to make you smile or whatever because you're deep in thought on what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

Or when you hear me yelling on my phone, or that well, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

I just stay away from that. I just look at you and I'm like, You good? But you know, I know when to when when I'm in the mood to be like cute and pesky and funny. Maybe that's not the time to do it is when your balls deep and stuff. Because I know when I'm balls deep in something and you're trying to do that, I know I'm like, get the fuck away. Because you're trying not like that. You don't mean to be mean, it's just you're focusing on what you're doing. So it's just being mindful, I think, too.

SPEAKER_02 21:21

Yeah, it's keeping the boundaries, know when to joke and when not to joke and when to leave it alone. Absolutely. This morning I think you kinda understood. I I once I explained to you, I was like, hey, I'm doing AOD stuff right now. When you were saying something, I was telling you about the album title that I was working on. Oh, yeah. And you were like, 'cause you were g you were being really chatty. I think it's because you was your first cup of coffee. Um, and I was like, like focusing 100% on what I was looking, because I had to tell the freaking system exactly what I was doing. I'm rambling now. All right, I'll let you read the next one.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

All right. The next one is from our friend Kathy Bounds. She says, Hi, Cody and Mariah. Well, here you go. My first submission to a question of the week. Yay! Thank you, Kathy. I am so happy and proud of you for the podcast. I'm finally getting caught up on it. After listening to the first episode when it dropped, love hearing you both talk real life shit. I love it. Thank you, Kathy.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

She says, Sign Kathy, my gratitude knows no bound. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

With the cry laughing somebody, you're so cute, Kathy. So Kathy says, uh, so the question, what helped you trust someone again after being hurt? Kathy says, honestly, the biggest part was just time, allowing myself the grace to stay at the pace and trust again that I was comfortable with. Not what was on anyone else's agenda or timeline. The other big component, as far as a relationship is concerned, is having someone who gives you that safe space to trust again. Someone who is understanding, patient, and reassuring, reminding myself that it is worth the risk to trust, or you might just be missing out on someone, friend or relationship that is really meant for you. It's a question, did a specific person help restore your faith in a relationship, or was it something you had to learn on your own? Uh Kathy says a little bit of both. I have the best tribe and support group in the world, especially my cousin, but ultimately it was up to me to decide when I was ready to restore that faith. There wasn't just a an aha moment, but I did just know it one day that I was ready to try again. Not gonna lie, therapy was a huge help as well. There was so much stigma about counseling and therapy, but we all aren't born with the tools to navigate through the hard times, and I really learned a lot from a great therapist over the years. Not only how to build up my own confidence and self-worth against being treated crappy, but also how to show up as a better partner when I did decide to enter a new relationship again. Question, how do you know the difference between healthy caution and emotional walls? Kathy says, For me, I think that healthy caution equates to being aware and observant, but willing to step outside of your comfort zone and take emotional risks without interfering in your own growth. Emotional walls, while I believe are important during a healing process, should only be temporary and not a permanent place where you keep yourself in your heart. Ooh, I agree with that for sure. Question Is it harder to trust others again or to trust your own judgment after a bad relationship? Kathy says, it is harder to trust others again. While I feel that I have allowed myself to become more in tune with my intuitions and gut instinct instinct, therefore I have become more comfortable in trusting my own judgment and judgment more and not second guessing it like I used to. While I feel that I still have the approach that I believe everyone is good and kind until they show me otherwise, I have definitely closed that side uh circle over the years when it comes to trusting, when it comes to trusting too easy because of being burnt so badly in friendships and relationships slash marriage. One particular example is I had a very close friend that we did a lot together and our families. I really trusted her with everything. One day some shit blew up in her personal life, which impacted her work life as well, and she was spiraling. She decided for whatever reason that she was gonna share information about me that only she knew to a mutual friend for no reason other than maybe deflection. I don't know, just a guess. Never took time to find out why and really give a shit why to find out why and really give a shit to give her the opportunity to explain. She didn't deserve it, but this situation was hurtful that someone you trusted so much so easily just betrayed that trust. That situation changed me in my ability to trust others in my life. I am much more cautious now and it takes longer to reach a point where I can trust someone to that full extent anymore. Question, what signs tell you someone is safe to open up to? Kathy says. Nothing wrong with that, as she has an incredible bond with them and loves being a Grammy. But there are times where she does talk about how it would be nice to share a life with someone, but she just has no desire to get hurt again, and that trumps anything else. We talk about this from time to time. She's my best friend, right? So of course, sometimes I vent about relationship marriage stuff, mind you, nothing I wouldn't say directly to my husband as well, but uh, but I think it's disrespectful to talk about your partner to other people if you can't say it to them as well. Um, there are times where she will comment, I'm so glad I'm not dating in a relationship, or C, I don't have to deal with that as a response to something I said. But I try to explain that no relationship is perfect and that it is about learning and growth as well. And I feel that finding your person, even if it isn't perfect all the time, is so worth it versus being afraid. So, bottom line, being willing to take the risk and don't be afraid. You just might be missing out on what the universe has meant for you. Related note, my favorite thing my dad ever told me before he passed away about relationships and marriage was it is work, and work in this case is not some bad four-letter word to be taken negatively. It means that you never stop working on the relationship. And I have always valued that tidbit of advice he gave me. Miss you pops. Uh, question Do you think people should fully heal before dating, or can healing happen with a new relationship? Kathy says, I think this varies depending on the person. For me personally, I did a little healing on my own before dating again after my divorce, married 18 years, but I was nowhere near fully healed. In fact, I feel that I am always healing. I am always learning something else about how to heal better each day. I am much more at peace than I have ever been, but I am of the mindset that self-work is never done and that this is not a bad thing. When I started dating again, I did some healing during those periods as well because I was still learning. So I take all those moments, good or bad, and appreciate them as blessings. Question, what personal boundaries help you stay open without getting hurt the same way again? Kathy says, I would say in the last five to six years when I started learning how to set boundaries and learning how to deal with them without guilt. Man, did I struggle with that like crazy at first. And I think the guilt is what opened that door to getting hurt because I didn't want to hurt someone's feelings when I set a boundary. I think it took me gaining the confidence I needed to stand in my own, stand behind my boundary and respect it, respect it and myself. I now have more confidence to speak up and address the situation immediately as to protect my peace and to be confident to be okay with that, regardless of the outcome or reaction from the person I am setting the boundary with. I love that, Kathy.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

Yeah, Kathy, thank you for sharing all that, man. That's uh that's some good stuff there for sure. I so I like when she's talking about her friend that was like, you know, when she's venting or saying whatever about her husband, and her friend's like, well, I'm glad I don't have to deal with that. I love how she like explains, like, well, nothing's perfect. It's like you have to accept that there's people, people are gonna be different, and you're not gonna have someone that has everything you absolutely want. It doesn't mean you're settling, it doesn't mean at all that you're settling. It's just that we are people, and no matter how much you love someone or care for someone, there's gonna be things that bug you about them that they do, like whether it's the way they chew their food or maybe they snore, or maybe they leave their clothes on the floor and freaking you have to pick it up. You know what I mean? There's gonna be things like that, but like those are things that don't like don't matter at the end of the day. Does it really freaking matter like those smaller things? Now, if someone is like not communicating, if they're constantly not answering their phone or trying to get a hold of them, they're not coming home, or they're on drugs or alcohol, and you guys are having like that that kind of stuff, like the the bigger things that actually matter. They're lying to you, they're whatever, being sneaky. Those are the kind of things that, yeah, fuck that. I don't I don't want to be in something like that. But things like there's there's gonna be smaller things that just they may be annoying or whatever, and that's just a part of being with somebody else. So you find that in your own best friends, you find that in your family, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 30:44

Like so your puppies, your puppies, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:46

And I like that she mentions about here where she's talking about the trust, and eventually she like feels it out and then gives it up. Like I can relate to that 100%. I feel like for me, myself, anyways, what I normally do is I will read the room. Like I will see like what's this person doing. If this person's opening up and telling somebody else's business, like we mentioned on here, am I gonna trust that person with personal things? Hell no. Because I know that damn well they're gonna do that same thing to me. I only allow as much information as I'm willing to have it used against me when I'm sharing things like that, you know. So, like, for example, sometimes I do say some really personal stuff on Facebook. And what can it be used against me? Because I'm I'm putting myself vulnerable. Sure, people can use it, but it's like at the end of the day, it's like I put it out there knowing that that, and that's fine. If you want to use that against me, if it makes you feel bigger, fine. It's not gonna hurt me though, because I let you, I allowed it, I knew what I was doing. I went in there with intentions of, hey, I'm a human being, I fuck up, and as is over here breathing really hard.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

He's really into this.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

Yeah, he's into the conversation, he's looking at me. But anyways, like if someone tries to use that against me, at the end of the day, it's kind of like I think we talked about this last week when Eminem vulnerability works. Yeah, well, when Eminem uh on 8 Mile, he like tells them all 100%, like all these bad things about him and what he's done. And what more can you say after that? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

I like the part uh where Kathy says emotional walls, while I believe are important during a healing process, should not or should only be temporary and not a permanent place where you keep yourself in your heart. I think that's huge, you know, and and and you know, working on yourself and getting to a point where sure when you're still very vulnerable out of a fresh situation, I think it's great to have walls up just to ensure that you don't slide into another shit situation because that's easy to do. I've been there. But don't let that control your life and have that wall up so you know, to where you're missing out on what is meant for you, whether it's universe, whatever you believe in, God, the universe, whatever they're trying to put in place. If you have that wallza, that wall up, you could be missing out on great things. So I think it's just a balance. It's it's a balance and learning to trust yourself more and give yourself that grace and say, hey, we've been through this before, we've been through this shitty situation. But that doesn't define you, and that doesn't define everybody else that's coming into your life. So maybe let's give them a chance, like mentioned in here too. Maybe open up a little bit about maybe something not maybe a little more minor just to see how that person is and then see how that builds from there. But I agree with that. Definitely temporary walls.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's it's good to have a guard up because you you don't want to have the same thing happen again back to back. And sometimes it can happen. Like that's the reality of it, is that you might meet the same person over in a different disguise. And that's that's scary. And it's, you know, it's one of those things where it's very likely that it can happen, especially if you're attracted to a certain type of person. Um that can that can be something that you're gonna fall into again. You just gotta be prepared. But you also gotta you're coming in there with experience on what to look out for and maybe how to cut it off. All right. The next one comes in from Tom Godard. He says, Life is to be lived. I think enough said there, Tom. I agree. And I I posted this earlier uh this week to not be afraid of love, man. You gotta love, you gotta learn, you gotta be okay with with being hurt and being open to love because you're gonna miss out on a lot of things. If a friend backstab like stabs you in the back, which that'll happen, you can't block everybody out and not you know make new friends because of that. Uh same with your love life. Just because you've been hurt doesn't mean the next person's necessarily gonna hurt you. So just live life. Life is to be lived. I like that. Next one comes in from our buddy Joshua Holland. I have spent so much time in personal growth that my thought is that if you have trust issues that need needs to be dealt with before bringing someone else into the fold, agreed. You need to do the work on you as even as even if you find the right person, you'll destroy it through behaviors. Uh 100% agree on that. Anytime I get into a new relationship, even friendships, I might have unintended triggers from some trauma that I didn't I don't realize until later and need to work on. But I go into the relationship with trust first. I'll have some boundaries, but not walls. And if I get reactive, I look at myself for why first. I like that. We bring ourselves into the next relationship, and if trust is an issue, personally, I think it's something that should be worked on before getting into a new relationship. 100% agreed. The new person doesn't deserve our baggage, and they shouldn't have to earn our trust. An intimate relationship is the most important relationship we choose. If we choose someone while having trust issues, it's setting both people up for failure. 100% agreed. I've been hurt more times than I can count. I've been betrayed almost almost lost everything multiple times, and I have every reason not to trust people. But living life like that to me isn't living. It's letting your nervous system set the tone for your life. And I refuse to have that be the case. Life is to be lived, not lived in fear. Yeah, I love it. Joshua, yes, sir. I agree with this. So I like how here he does say that when you're bringing someone into your life, they don't have to, you don't want to bring that baggage in, because I've done that myself where I was hurt, and it's like, okay, well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna uh come in here like with my walls up, but also I'm gonna be looking for these red, these red flags. And if you're looking for something, you dig enough, you're gonna find something, and then you're gonna you're not gonna even give that person the benefit of the doubt to give them an opportunity. And just because certain things remind you of maybe behaviors that had happened with a previous person doesn't necessarily mean that this person is doing the same things that that other person was doing. Mind you, it could be an indicator as well that it's going down that path. But if you're going in there right away and unsure and insecure and all that stuff, it's like, dude, you have no business being in a relationship. And that's another thing I see a lot of is insecurities. If you have all these insecurities about this and that and this and that, you have no business getting in a relationship. Leave your shit in the past, man.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

Like and there's just so many people, and I was this way when I was younger too. It's like I would just relationship hop, you know? So it's like there's someone walls up, do this person's doing something here, then I jump to the next one, which wasn't fair to the p person I was dating when I'm the one that's fucked up, but I hadn't healed myself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

I I think there's a point of accountability too. When you see a person that's constantly in and out of relationships, they do they ever stop and think, like, hey, maybe it's me. Maybe it's the choices I'm making, maybe it's my personality of you know, the people I'm going after, maybe it's my behavior that's causing these people to do the same thing over and over to me. Or at the end of the day, take some accountability and just say, you know what? I'm picking the wrong people. I need to not date. I need to not go like I need to take a pause. Yeah. Take a pause. Don't date. Don't make that the main focus of your everyday life. Like, work on yourself, work on your securities, work on being uh being more confident in yourself and knowing what you want and knowing what you deserve. And if if something keeps happening over and over and over and over again, at some point you have to kind of look at yourself and say, what is my role in this? Maybe it's my decisions I'm making.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

Maybe I'm the fucking problem. That's where people need to self-reflect and take accountability. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 38:00

And not to call any females out on this, but I feel like it's a lot of females that do this. I see this constantly with females complaining online about men all the time on all social media. Men this, men that, men that. Well, bitch, maybe it's the guy that you're dating. Like, seriously, like stop and look in the goddamn mirror. It's the types of guys you are choosing and take some accountability. Like it makes me mad because then they chop down, they want to chop down men to every little small piece, and it just is like, dude, look in the damn mirror. It's you. You are the problem. You're making bad choices, you're making those decisions, so you made your bed, lay in it.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

Well, it's kind of like they have those Facebook groups about with cities, like, are we dating the same guy or whatever? So I I guess I must have joined one a long time ago, but uh it's for our area. Oh my God, the women in there. I mean, don't get me wrong, like there are, you know, it's it's it's good, you know, for women to know if guys are actually like being awful or you know, X, Y, Z. But at the same time, it's like I see them, they'll post these pictures of these absolutely awful looking dudes where I'm sorry to be this way, but you can just tell by the picture they're not a good dude. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 39:10

You can just tell. And then they're like, he's dating three other women. The drug dealer looking guy's not a good guy. Weird. Shocking. Hi.

SPEAKER_02 39:18

Yeah, people are uh I think sometimes though there's that age too where you like the problem, you like the drama, you like the bullshit. But once you're in your late 20s and in your 30s, especially, it's not cute, it's not a good look, and it's just it's disgusting, it's gross.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

And then your friend groups rolling their eyes at you, like here goes fucking Sheila or Bob again dating these fucking pieces of shit, but don't see what they're doing.

SPEAKER_02 39:43

But and then you're the kind of joke of the fucking group, friends.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 39:48

It's weird, it's wild. All right, uh Kimberly Willems says, We don't. That's how you get a house full of dogs. Yeah. I mean, I don't mind having dogs. That's why we're not that's why we don't have kids. We have dogs. Doggy dogs, huh? Tasmanian.

SPEAKER_01 40:02

I I don't you either, I don't, I believe, but I've well you've said if you had kids, you'd have like 50 million. But I've never wanted kids personally, so dogs it is. All right, our next one is from our friend Kiris Emberborn. They say, I agree and I relate to almost everything Danny said. My story and journey are similar, but introspection and self-reflection are so important after a romantic relationship ends, not only to determine what you do or don't desire of the next partner, but who you are best as a partner. Until you do your own deep dive, you will stay in that cycle of new faces while the names stay the same. There is not a single person who is perfect, and we all have room to grow and improve. Without introspection, you won't be able to glimpse your own patterns and will remain stuck. Learning to care for and love yourself will begin to change the people that are attracted to you. You will also begin to recognize that your initial attraction to people are based on your own beliefs about what you believe you deserve. Feel worthless, you'll attract people that will encourage that feeling. Feeling worthy of love, you'll find people who freely love you. This is all theory for me at this point, though. I've been single for seven years. I know exactly what I'm looking for in a partner and who I am as a partner, and I'm patient that the person I'm looking for is out there looking for me as well. It's exciting as we wait in and to say it of meeting one another. Antis I'm not gonna sing. Uh maybe I'm just looking for a sweet transvestite from transsexual transylvania. I almost couldn't even say it, Kiris. Twisting my T's here, my T's and my S's. No, that's I mean again, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 41:49

Kiris literally said everything we're just talking about right now. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

Great. But exactly. I'm uh I have said this a million times. You get what you put out there, you'll attract what you put out there. So if you're a negative Nancy, all this bad shit, bad shit's gonna come to you. Bad people's gonna come to you. If you put that aside, find a smile, start talking positively, not only about yourself, because you should start there, stop the negative talk, start talking great about yourself and showing yourself love and exuding the love out, you're gonna get that back.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

Negative people won't want to be around you when you're positive and happy and sunny and all that shit. The negative, it's funny. Negative people will talk shit about you and they'll cut you out. They don't want to be around you, they want other people that are miserable with them. Because they just want that so they want that negativity. So those people will automatically just fall off like as time goes on. So that's one thing I noticed when I was getting sober and when I was starting to look at things more positive and trying to be in a more positive light.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

Would you say with open eyes?

SPEAKER_02 42:46

With open eyes, yeah. Unintended from from my song Open Eyes. Go check it out. But the negative people do fall off naturally because they don't want to be around that. They want other people that are miserable with them, and they don't, they're like, oh well, Cody is Mr. Goody, two shoes, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, fuck off. Go be miserable somewhere else. I don't need you.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

You get to read the next one. I have to read the next one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:08

You just want me to read. All right. I gotta fix this damn thing.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

In the words of Ricky, you're gonna get learnt. Isn't that what he says?

SPEAKER_02 43:15

Maybe. Trailer Park Boys, Ricky. The Ricky isms, yeah. Next one is from Danny Panders Benton. What I've learned is that I have to deconstruct everything about me, everything I was ever told by people who I thought had my best interest at heart, but didn't. And I had to start rebuilding myself. You will always find the same horrible people who will use you and make you feel less than or not remotely good enough until you deconstruct. I didn't advocate for myself, and then I was a human doormat. Learning to love myself even after all the horrible relationships, and even when a when I wasn't such a good person, you get conditioned to how you're supposed to be in someone else's eyes, and you forget who you are. I agree with that for sure. I was trapped in the Same vicious cycle, but with new faces. I had to look at every angle and look what I wanted I wanted myself to be and what I wanted for my life to be. Once I started seeing the patterns of abuse, I was able to finally break myself free. Toxic relationships have definitely affected me as a child because I thought I thought DV and emotional abuse was love. So, you know, you can see where this is going. What helped me was years worth of therapy. And I started going again recently and doing a lot of reading about how people grew up in the situations as me and what they did to change their situation. Self-help books and mental health books also helped me understand that it was conditioning and it wasn't my fault for those who hurt me. But I'm glad I did. I wouldn't have anything I have now. My husband, my family, everything. If I didn't start digging through the mess that was my life, my person who helped me, myself, my husband, and the few people who do support me. Also, I wish I could bill my insurance for all the work I've done. That would be a beautiful payment.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

Oh, Danny, absolutely. I don't know if you heard me clapping, but I again I love hearing so much of people seeing that maybe there's an issue. I have an issue. I need therapy. So I think therapy, do it. Obviously, I can't tell you what to do, but I highly recommend it.

SPEAKER_02 45:22

Yeah, I mean, whatever you have to do that works for you. Some people don't just don't want to do it or don't want to try it or whatever. I I can speak for myself. I've never actually done it myself. So I don't know. I I can't speak against it, but I can speak on someone that hasn't done it. I think for me, it comes to that vulnerability. And maybe I'm maybe I don't want to know things about myself and have someone tell me flat out uh I think.

unknown 45:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:46

Well, I don't know. But yeah, I I agree with everything Danny said here. Uh I think she hit it, but basically everything that we get were talking about just a bit ago in knowing your self-worth. And this is the one thing I was talking about before. Like when kids unfortunately are around a situation where they see relationships with their parents or their parents with their stepparents or their parents with dating somebody or whatever. It's not a good thing when a kid grows up and they see that their parents, there's it's okay to fight, or they they grow up thinking it's okay to fight, or for their parents to be cheating on each other, or in and out of relationships, because then they think they grow up thinking that that's what love is, and you know damn well they're gonna be in that same situation themselves when they're dating and they they get married or whatever. They're gonna they're gonna think it's normal and that's not good. So yeah, I mean, I could totally see how all of this this right here was was affecting to Danny. We have one here from Brent Lamro Brent Lamro. I haven't. I'm a widower, won't ever get married again. I've got to know myself a lot more in the 15 years since my wife passed, and I'm meant to be alone. I'm not lonely. I won't let anyone in like that again, and it's absolutely good for me. Got my little fur buddy by my side, and I have my peace and silence while I'm not working. It's nice, it's a nice quiet life. There's nothing wrong with that, Brent. I love that. I love that you're happy. That's that that's above that's the key thing. Above all, you don't need to have someone to be happy. You're happy. It's yeah, it's you. You are your happiness. What you know what you want, you're you and your fur puppy. And your fur puppy. Yeah. I mean, who I mean like look at us with our boys here. Like they are everything to like come home to. I'd rather be hanging out with them than hanging out with anybody else. Like I and if you're happy, that's all that really matters. You that's all that matters. You don't have to answer to anybody. Steve Meltzer says, Nope. I'm more broken than ever. Steve, I'm sorry to hear that.

SPEAKER_00 47:32

Just keep your head up, Steve.

SPEAKER_01 47:33

You got this.

SPEAKER_02 47:34

You got the next one.

SPEAKER_01 47:35

So Rain Man McMillian says, My dietary decisions of fast food in Chinese buffets have made the idea of a sit-down restaurant and eating out in general impossible. I figured that all dinner was gonna make me sick, so I just got used to fast food. Eventually I realized I should just cook myself, got good at it, realized there's no reason to settle for someone else's cooking if I can do it better on my own. Cody Perez. Not worth risking the orange chicken flu. What? Is that a thing? I don't know. But now I've also realized that there are probably tons of great restaurants and they probably have good chefs that I've never gave a chance. Yeah, the smell and convenience of a nearby McDonald's is tempting, but if I avoid the cheap and easy, perhaps check out the boring, no chaos, no waffle house vibe. A vibe's a place that closes at reasonable hours and charges prices that reflect the value, my opinion of eating out has changed. I accept my part in the types of environments I will look for dinner in. No more strip mall sushi. If I gotta get up early, spend a bit more, and be disciplined enough to get into a steakhouse, so be it. Yes, fast food made me hesitant to try real dinner, but I was the one choosing del Taco over El Hacienda Real. If that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 48:52

But I I get exactly what Rain Man McMillan million is saying here. Uh you know, it it sounds like they know exactly what they want and what they won't settle for in their life. The fact they use food, which food is one of my favorite topics to talk about. I love I love that uh they use that as an analogy. Good for you, Rain Man McMillian.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

All right. The next one is from just Miss Ash. It takes someone with patience and time to really start letting those walls down and trust that not everyone has bad intentions. I've bec become oversensitive to moods and behaviors and body language and notice red flags more quickly. Personally, it's hard for me because I don't know if it's worth it to date again. Everyone is capable of harm, physically, emotionally, and mentally. People are different. Not everyone wants a relationship like the old days. Too many avenues to find someone new fast, different motivation and intentions. The noob wears off, and time for them to find something new. A lot of healing has to happen on your own. You can't just jump into a relationship and expect them to fix you, or you will end up repeating the same mistakes or bringing your past with you. But someone could help you heal by being patient and taking the time to learn what you've been through and help you heal by being patient and taking the time to learn what you've been through. Did I just read that a double time? Learn what you've been through and help you through that and by loving you despite your scars. Healthy caution for me is the gut feeling. Noticing things and seeing the red flags that make you feel uncomfortable or scared or nervous or change how you act. Emotional walls for me are like not allowing yourself to fully dive into the relationship because you always you're always waiting for the ball to drop. Not showing all of yourself, your true self, because you're afraid being always ready to run with one foot out the door in case something happens or you think this can't work, even though you haven't really tried. Signs someone is safe is they acknowledge you and validate you. They listen and don't rush to respond, but listen and really hear you. And not just once, but all the time. Not just when they can make it about them. Not just when they can make it benefit themselves. Is that it? All right. No, I yep. Um I agree. You know, see dating's hard, and I do agree that it's a different time nowadays for sure. Because I've heard so many stories, and I've kind of experienced this back in the, you know, obviously before Cody, you know, when trying to do dating apps and whatnot, everybody has different intentions. And I still hear this, like, I mean, TikTok, take it for what you will, too. I always have my mind that, yeah, this all could be fake, right? And it probably is. But on dating apps, when people put that, what are they searching for? and they say a serious relationship, but then those are the same guys going back to that Facebook group I'm a part of. You'll see their picture in there, and it's like, well, they're just a player sleeping around. So, you know, a lot of people aren't always honest. But with that, I would say don't let that cloud your view of everybody. Obviously, like the just Miss Ash is saying, you kind of pay attention.

SPEAKER_02 51:58

Treated each person as an individual.

SPEAKER_01 52:00

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 52:01

Honestly, that's what it comes down to is you you gotta you you can't you gotta obviously protect yourself and look out for the red flags, the things that really stand out that matter to you. But at the same time, just because certain things remind you of someone you once dated or something, that doesn't mean that they're necessarily gonna be like that.

SPEAKER_00 52:18

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 52:18

And if you give someone a chance and you take a look and see like maybe, maybe this is different. But knowing when to get out too, like you gotta you have to know when to just say, all right, this is this isn't it. And for us guys, I will just say this us guys know when we want to commit to someone right away. Yep. It's not gonna so if this guy is dating four or five different girls, it's because none of them are it. I promise you that. And maybe one of them is a baby mama and he knows he owes a lot of money on that one. So he's like, you know what? I'm gonna I'm gonna keep the peace on this one. I'm gonna stick around with her because if I leave, I'm gonna be paying$800 a month in child support because she's got my three kids or whatever, whatever the hell that may be. But they're still maybe truly looking for one that clicks and they haven't found that yet. If they have four girls, that tells me right there that none of them are it. I promise you that. Because us guys, we know right away. When we see someone and and something clicks, right away, we'll ask you to fucking date us that same day.

SPEAKER_01 53:08

Kind of stems back to if he wanted to, he would. But I think that's for females too. If a female wanted to, she would. Vice versa. If someone wants to be with you, they'll go out of their way to be with you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:20

Yes. So now it's our turn, I guess, to answer these questions so that we don't forget, because I feel like we will. So I will ask, I will read them to you and then you can answer, okay? Okay. So after being hurt in a past relationship, how do you learn to lower your guard and allow yourself to love again? Well, a I'll ask them question by question for you, and then you can answer.

SPEAKER_01 53:39

Hey. Boy. What was that again? Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 53:43

After being hurt in past relationships, how do you learn to lower your guard?

SPEAKER_01 53:46

I think it's for me, I mean, and obviously I can only speak for me, maybe task. Is that I just had to well, I mean, I made some bad relationship decisions back to back. But ultimately, it was giving myself time to just not even talk to dudes or just find time for myself and find me. Well, because it finally dawned on me, especially with therapy and stuff too, was hey, if you're taking all your baggage and your problems into the next relationship, you're probably gonna have the same shit. So and especially if you're with all that, if you're not feeling so confident in yourself and you're not putting your best self forward, you're gonna attract shit, just kind of like we've been saying. And I've have experienced that hands-on. So I think it's just taking a step back, finding time to love yourself before putting yourself back out there, because again, it's not fair to the others, like habit was mentioned here, not fair to someone else that might really be into, but you're so fucked up because you haven't dealt with your shit, and then you jump into it and you're like, and do your thing. Well, that's not fair to them. What if they really enjoyed you and you really hurt them, even though you're too busy being selfish in your own bullshit because you weren't ready to be into it, be in a relationship. But what helped you trust someone again after being hurt? Did a specific uh person help you restore your faith in relationships? Or was it something you had to learn on your own? Honestly, with that, um, I would say, you know, just having like my best friend Amanda, like she's always been there. Her and I have a great relationship where we can call each other out and we don't get offended by it. We don't get butthurt because we realize like if if we're calling each other out, like we're doing something fucking stupid. Um so that's helped obviously my therapist at the time. Um, you know, I don't know, I guess parents too. So, but and honestly, just myself just having hard talks with myself. Get it together, girl, get it together. If you want change, make it happen. You gotta put in the work. Is it harder to trust others again or trust your own judgment after a bad relationship? Again, like we've kind of mentioned through this, I think at first, like if you want to go back to Kathy's thing and the temporary walls, you know, it can be a bit of a an adjustment learning to drop those walls. But again, I was ready for the next step. So I had to either continue in my self-pity and walls up or figure it out, move forward, let that shit go. Because it will hold you back. Uh, what signs tell you someone is safe to open up to? As I was it just Miss Ash said, I think it was her, maybe it was the rain man, where if if you're talking to someone and they, you know, are actually listening, giving you the time to explain things or situations that you've been through and whatnot, and they are truly listening to you and offering whether advice or just listening or understanding versus just of course this could be ADHD too, cutting you off and going in and start talking about themselves, or you know, you can tell when someone just doesn't give a shit. They change the subject or they zone off or they start talking about something completely different, then maybe that's not the one. But what personal boundaries help you stay open without getting hurt the same way again? I think just being open and honest with yourself and you know, setting boundaries with others and yourself when you are meeting others, you know. Obviously don't go in full metal jacket, right? Maybe just have initiate conversations and just see where it goes from there, you know? Whether it's friendship or a romantic relationship, see how it goes, see how it blossoms. There's always time to learn more and more and more, right? It's not a race, there's time. Well, hopefully time. Yeah. So that's that's that's my shit show.

SPEAKER_02 57:32

All right. All right. For me, let's see. So going back, after being hurt in past relationships, how do you learn to lower your guard and allow yourself to love again? Well, I think like for me, anytime I've been in a relationship, it's always long term. And so what happens is after it doesn't work out, I burn that motherfucker to the ground. And like I said before, it's self-destruction. And then I rebuild. I go and I'm like, okay, what did I like about that? What did I not like about that? And then I know what to look for, and I know what not to look for. So anytime that I've gotten single, I usually spend a lot of time rebuilding myself and making myself healthy, making myself prepared for uh to be able to love, to trust, to commit, and basically just knowing what I want and putting it out there. And I'm not, I don't put up a guard as in, oh, I'm not gonna let you into my life. I'll let him in. But like I said, I know instantly when I've dated girls and I've been single, I know instantly if it's just a friend fling type of deal or if this is dating material. Like I instantly will know that. And I think that's why me and you didn't work out when we first started hanging out because we were both we were both shit shows and we were partying back in 2010, like hardcore. So I knew like you were fun and there was something special about you, but I knew that we couldn't take it to that serious level of dating or anything. So we always just kind of we flirted and we hung out. Either of us were looking for that at that time. No, we weren't. We were both, like I said, you were on your path, I was on my path in our early 20s. So when we got together, we hung out once, and then guess guess what? We're in a relationship, and here we are four years later. So, but I knew when I was dating other girls, I knew instantly I was like, oh, this isn't this isn't something serious. This is just us hanging out, and if we get sex out of it, they can get sex out of it. We don't yeah, pretty much, and that's how guys are. And women are naive if they think that men are not like that, or if a man says that he's not like that, he's a liar, he's lying to you. Watch out for that. That's a red flag. Guys instantly know if they want to be with someone or not, they're not lying to you when they say that he would. If you could he would, yes, exactly. And if you're giving it up, they're gonna take it and then they're not gonna take it to that next level. Whatever. Regardless. But I just don't understand how females can be so blind to that and not realize that he's just been hurt. And there's guys that are able to string you along, string you along, string you along, and make you think all this crap. And it's like they're playing mind games with you and you're falling gaslighting or whatever, and you're falling right for it. And if you fall for it, that's your own fault. You allow people to treat you the way you get treated. And if you get treated badly, that's on you to cut it off, man. No one else, because you're gonna keep running into people that are like that in your life, whether it's your friends, your romantic relationships, your family members, your work, peers, all that. That's gonna follow you no matter what. So you gotta learn to find a way to say, nope, enough's enough. I'm not dealing with this, I'm not putting up with this. I'm putting up a I'm putting up a hard line in the sand. I'm saying you're crossing it now, and fuck you, get out of here.

SPEAKER_08 1:00:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:22

So for me, uh, whenever I've been ready to commit, it's never been like me on the hunt. It just it relationships have just happened right there, weirdly enough. And then I, like I said, I instantly know, okay, we're together, cool. And it works out. But I've never gone out of my way to be like, oh my God, I'm so frustrated with dating. I'm so frustrated dating. When I was dating for that year that I was last single, when I was single in 2021, um, a lot of the there was a lot of crap out there. I knew what I didn't want. I didn't want someone with kids. I knew for a fact that I did not want to date anyone that had kids because I don't ever plan on having kids. Why should I have to take on that responsibility that someone has their kids to bring along and then they have their ex that they have to deal with for the rest of their life because they're their baby daddy or whatever. I knew that I wanted to find somebody that um was actually a hard worker and smart, not someone that's planning on living off of me. I want someone that can build with. I knew exactly what I was looking for. I knew, um, but I wasn't out hunting for it. Any girls that came into my life, I instantly was able to see, okay, you're definitely dateable, you're definitely just like a friend, or you're just like a fling, whatever. I I could categorize them. And I've always been able to do that since I was younger.

unknown 1:01:28

We all do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:29

I don't know. I think women are more delusional, unfortunately, and they think like, oh yeah, I can get this guy to change, I can get this guy to do this. That happened a lot. Or they think I'm I'm he treats me differently.

unknown 1:01:40

They want to be fixers.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:41

Yes, they want to be fixing something that's not gonna be fixed because guys don't change. No one changes unless they want to change themselves. You can't force someone with anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:50

Right. It's addiction, everything. They're not gonna quit unless or change until they want to.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:54

Yes, exactly. What helped you trust someone again after being hurt? For me, like I said, I don't go in. We said earlier, I don't like to go in thinking like, oh, this person's a liar, this person's this and that. I go in assuming innocence, and then like I always say this about like when I'm dealing with situations with the band at work or anything like that. Let people talk. They will tell you everything you need to know. The more they talk and the more they act, and when those two things are not aligning, that's all you need to know right there to decide if they're telling you the truth, if they're all talk, if they're all show, if they're playing you, they're gaslighting you. People's actions do not lie. And when you let someone talk and talk and talk and tell you everything and you just listen, you'll find out everything you need to know. And it's unreal how that like I learned that that's a powerful thing to have and put in your fucking toolbox and use it because it works for anything. And some people might look at me like, oh God, you're evil for doing that.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:53

But no, I let's recruiting tactic.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:56

Yeah, just let people give them enough rope to hang themselves. So, like I said, I trust people or not. I trust people until you give me reasons not to. So, like we mentioned earlier in the conversation, when your friends or your significant other is talking shit about you when you're not around, why would you want those people in your life? Why would you want to be in a relationship when this person thinks the sh that you're complete shit? Like I would never, for me personally, I would never go out of my way to go bitch about you to my band members, to my best friends, to people at work, anything like that. I wouldn't go and tell people like if we have problems, it's between me and you. I don't even tell my mom anything like that. It's not anyone's business. A relationship is between you and that person. And if I need to vent, I'll go vent to you about what's frustrating me about you. I'm not gonna go tell my band, like my girlfriend sucks because of this and that, and it's pissing me off. And I get it. Some people need that. Some people need to go do that. But think about like really think about what you're doing. You're putting your partner down. That says a lot about you. And at the end of the day, it's like you wouldn't want that done to you. You'd feel like complete crap if that was being done to you. So think about it from that perspective. Again, that's just me. Everyone's different, and I'm not trying to preach to how someone should be. But I just couldn't imagine me going and venting about you to somebody else. And then at that same time, let's say I've seen this happen where a girl goes and talks shit about her boyfriend or her husband to her family members, and then the family members all they know is that girl's side, and they hate the husband or they hate the boyfriend because you gotta be careful, and then you might get over it, but then they're not gonna get over it. They're gonna see you as the piece of shit that she described, and you know, it's just it's not it's not good. Um, let's see. Did a specific person help restore your faith and relationships, or was it something that you had to learn on your own? For me, it was something I had to learn on my own, and everyone's different. Like I I will continuously say that because I don't want people I'm very passionate when I speak, and I don't want people to ever think that when I'm what I'm saying is like I think it's the only way, or this or nothing. It's like this is just me speaking with passion from my personal experience and from my opinions. And I know there's lots of other various ways to do things. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Bad expression. I know, bad expression. But I had to learn that on my own with with dealing with bad relationships in the past, I had to learn to heal and spent a lot of time by myself and recognizing where I fucked up and where I need need where I needed to work on myself and what I needed to before I could get in a relationship again, what I needed to to fix within myself. How do you know the difference between healthy caution and emotional walls? Well, for me, it's if if I'm not meeting anybody new, if I'm if I notice that I'm not building anything special with anyone, obviously that's that's a sign that I clearly I'm having problems. There's something within me that I'm not allowing people in. So I think that's a clear indicator for me. Is it harder to trust others again or to trust your own judgment after a bad relationship? Um I think it's a little bit of both on this one for me. Uh, I would say that, like I mentioned earlier, I've made a lot of bad mistakes about the type of women that I dated, and I didn't see the red flags that I should have looked out for. And then later when I'm in the relationship, I'm like, God damn it, I don't like this, I don't like this, I don't like this, I don't like this. And then I I'm kinda I feel stuck and I'm the guy that doesn't like to break up. I'd rather a girl completely break up with me and sabotage the relationship and just let it burn to hell than to me have to do it. I've had to break up with girls in the past before because they just were not taking the signs when I was being very destructive. What happened to what? I got chased to the bat on one of them, but yeah. But I I've had to break up, break up things with with people, and it's always awkward. I don't like hurting people. I just don't like tears and I don't like hurting ladies. Like it's just so uh what signs tell you someone is safe to open up to? I think we talked about this earlier. One of the uh previous comments mentioned how uh if someone's being vulnerable with you, it's it's okay to be vulnerable with them, as I mentioned as well. I only allow the information that comes out of me to others to be something that I'm okay with being used against me. So there's a lot of things that I've held internally within me, like I've said before, that I will take to the grave with me that I will never tell anybody else. Not a single person will ever know about it. And it's just because it's internal and it's for me and no one needs to know about it.

unknown 1:06:59

I think everybody has that though.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:00

Yeah, everyone has that. But um, what I'm saying is like anyone that even the people that I trust with everything, I don't allow them to have enough information where they would be able to use it completely against me where I wouldn't be okay with others knowing. That makes sense. What advice would you give to someone who is afraid to love again? I would say do not give up because the worst thing that you can do is miss out on great people. And the love of your life could be is out there. I promise you that they are out there if you're looking for love again. And there's gonna be in anything that you do, there's gonna be risk, and the reward is always better than than the risk of you not ever meeting them, I think. So definitely something that I I always encourage people. Like there's there's someone out there for everybody, and there's different people for different periods of your life, I feel like. Like just because something didn't work out for someone you dated for 10 years or 20 years or whatever, and it falls apart, you know, that was an old version of you. And you're there's gonna be growth after a breakup, after a divorce. There's gonna be a lot of growth there, so you're gonna be a different person. So you might it might be someone from your past that you already knew, but now you're in a different stage of your life and they're in a different stage in their life, and you guys come together and build on a relationship, or it might be someone completely different that you would never would have given a chance to back 20 years before you got your in your previous relationship because now you're a different person. You see things differently, you act different, you're mature, you're whatever the case may be, whatever you're going through, there's different walks of life. And I feel that in a lot of in a lot of cases, you're gonna what did they say? You you won't you fall in love three times in your life? I feel like maybe there's maybe more than that, but who knows? Do you think people should fully heal before dating again, or can healing happen within a new relationship? For me, I think that you do need to heal, but I could totally see how someone could heal with somebody else in their life because they're learning to love again. But it takes a very, very patient person because that person's gonna come in with insecurities, they're gonna come in vulnerable as hell, they're gonna come in hurt and maybe still bring up things from the past of the relationship, or maybe they still have feelings for that person. It's gonna take someone that's very, very, very patient and willing to work, understanding, love, and accept you for coming in with that damage. Me personally, I don't know if I could have that patience to uh deal with that. I just I don't think for myself that I could do that. But there is people out there that I know have that that they just know that they have that nurturing. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:16

And they want to do anything for that person, understand that there will be they can see the hurt and trauma troubles that they've been through, and they just want to help them. I mean, that happens.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:25

They would just want to love them. For me, I know that when I get with someone, I want them to be 100% all about me. And maybe it's a self-reside of me or whatever, the alpha male in me that that makes me say that. But I love the person to be fully in love with me and all about me. And I'm I'm not an insecure guy at all by any means. I don't even get jealous. You know that. I don't ever get jealous, but I like to know that my person is 100% committed to me, that knows that I that I trust them, and I I know that there's no doubt of how they feel about me. And I'm the same with with that about them. Let's see. What personal boundaries help you stay open without getting hurt the same way again? Well, I think now more than ever from my past relationships, and I've mentioned this before on here, that communication is the number one thing for me. If something is bugging me, back in the day, I wouldn't say it. I'd let it build up, I'd let it build up, or I'd act out in a way to kind of pay back the person or make them get jealous or get mad or get angry or whatever, to kind of get my revenge, so to speak. Now, if I feel like something is unfair, if I'm hurt by something, if I'm thinking something, I bring it up. I talk about it. And I I I've learned to do that not just with you in our relationship, but I do that now with the band. I do that now at work, I do that like with anything and anyone now, with any of my relationships that I have, I make sure that I communicate and I don't let things build up. And it's just it's better to communicate and talk things out so that everyone knows what's going on versus wondering. I hate when people make you wonder if they're mad at you or if they make you wonder, like, are they fully about this? Are they not about this? Are they all in? Are they all out? Like what? Where are you? Where is your stance on this? Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, we're all adults. Communicate, it's not that hard. Use your words, and what's the worst that's gonna happen? Oh, you might upset them with you telling them how you feel. Well, if they care about you, if they truly love you, if you mean a lot to them, they're gonna listen, they're gonna talk it out with you, and then maybe you're gonna learn something about why they're being that way or why they did that or why they said something, and then you guys that's where you discuss it, and then going forward, you figure out how are we gonna approach this? How are we gonna go about this so it doesn't happen again, or so that we know how to work to not upset each other? So that's my two cents on all of that. I love talking about love and dating and relationships just because it is something that everyone can relate to, and I think the point of this podcast is healthy conversations and giving advice and looking at things through a different lens and all that. So I thought this was a good topic to bring up. Anything else before we go on to our guest, the next segment?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:54

Nope. Just everybody, just be happy and healthy and love yourself.

Segment 2

SPEAKER_02 1:11:59

Yes, sir. So my guest this week is Mr. Jacobs, and I'm excited to have him on this show because he is a former podcaster, and we talk a little bit about that. I got some history with him, so stick around for segment two with Matt Jacobs. How's it going, everyone? Welcome to the Liquid Shape Podcast. I am excited because I am talking to an old school friend from back in the day here that I haven't talked to in a long time. This is actually the first time we've talked in years. A gentleman by uh and I know you as Alloy Matt, but you're Matt Jacobs, correct? Correct. This is Matt Jacobs, everybody. Hello. Hello. I'm dude, I'm excited to have you on here just because it's been years and you were always you were always really nice and friendly, and you gave us actually you were the very first podcast slash interview that American Overdose ever did way, way back in like 2010.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:53

So yeah, way a very long time ago.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:56

I remember how involved you were in the local scene when we first started out. So very, very excited to be talking to you. So go ahead and tell the listeners about you and then as as discuss things. I will ask questions. And if I don't understand something, because I know that some of the things you're be talking about, I'm fairly new to, so I'll probably be asking stupid questions, but whatever.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:15

Yeah, not a problem. I guess I'll start by saying that um I used to run a podcast called the Alloy Podcast, which was which was a uh metal music podcast based uh here in the Pacific Northwest, in the Willamette Valley-ish area. And we covered primarily local bands for most of our most of our run. We did do some uh a lot of larger bands, like signed bands and whatnot, once we were coming towards the end of Alloy Podcast. But that's kind of how how Cody and I met was I think Torin introduced us. Yep. Yeah, and at the Liberty one night while he was karaoke DJing or something to that effect.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:59

Yeah, actually, I remember so I remember listening to the podcast that you did with I believe it was Still Dead. You guys were at the mall. Yeah, and it just sounded so fun. And I was like, oh my god. I'm like, I've never heard anything like this. They're having fun, but it's an interview/slash not really feeling like an interview. Yeah, I think that's when I was brand new to like listening to podcasts and whatnot. This is the early days.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:18

Yeah, it was early days of podcasting, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:20

So I was really excited when I heard that. I'm like, when we get the band going, we're gonna get hopefully an interview with them.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:26

Yeah. Um, I've fallen kind of far from the tree if if you consider what I was doing. I am now a horror gaming content creator on YouTube and Twitch, and I am also my quote unquote side hustle is that I am a board game designer and developer.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:47

That is so awesome. Speaking of horror games, I'm sure this one has been you've had this one talked about with other people before. It's been brought up in your conversation. Friday the 13th, the video game that had come out some years ago. I'm so mad that they removed that from the the like live. That dude, that game, I've never had a game that gave me the chills and that I would get so amped into. I'm a huge Friday 13th nerd. I love Jason Voorhees, Michael Myers, and all those kind of movies, those 80s slasher movies. But that was the first game that I ever got like just like the chills playing. I felt like Jason was actually coming after me in the video game, and then when you get to beat Jason, you're like like in this rush to like do it. So did you ever get to play that game?

SPEAKER_05 1:15:29

I did, yeah. It's been quite a while at this point, but yes. What did you think of it? I thought it was pretty good. I mean, it does do a good job of building like building an atmosphere, excuse me. And it it does a great job of of building atmosphere and then paying off that build-up with like little jump scares here and there or whatever the case is.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:49

That's that's so cool. So like you you design the video games. What portion of it are you involved in? Are you doing like the music, the graphics, the are you a part of everything?

SPEAKER_05 1:15:58

I don't design video games, I design board games. Board games, okay board games, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:02

Board games. What are the what are those board games like? Like what type of themes are they?

SPEAKER_05 1:16:06

Sure. So uh the stuff that I play is very uh kind of a a wide gathering of of topics that I play. Topics that I design and I tend to start with mechanics before theme. So I I design a game that's very mechanically sound, and then I try to find a way to bring all those separate mechanics together in uh in the theme of the game. So like a game I'm working on right now is about it has turned out to be about like mining, like you're dwarves and you're trying to mine the best materials out of your mine, and each player plays a different mine. Okay. So mechanically it's got drafting and it's got worker placement and it's got some tile laying. So it's it's a very there's a lot of variety in the game, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:00

Yes, yes. Uh so the the when you say in the mechanics, is are you talking about like you're playing like on a you're playing obviously on a board, but are you like creating pawns, like pawn like structures, is there cards involved in it? Is there dice involved in it? What kind of uh what kind of pieces are involved in in the creation of the board game?

SPEAKER_05 1:17:19

Sure. So we tend to my girlfriend is also a game designer, so we we work a lot together. And we tend to start with cards because cards are very cheap and easy to produce.

SPEAKER_10 1:17:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:30

Because you can buy blank cards for hella cheap on like Amazon and Gamecrafter and print and play. Like there's lots of outlets where you can just go get blank cards and then you just write on them whatever you want. And that's how most of our games start is as card games. And as the game go as the the testing goes on for that game, you kind of feel out like, well, this should actually not be cards, this should be this portion of the game should be tile laying or whatever the case is. So yeah. I love that. That's cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:02

That's that's I like that you're you start with something and then you kind of hit it you build on it. Yeah. Do you have some games out there that people may be able to take a look at, purchase or whatnot that uh are completed and now Yes, I do.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:15

I have uh two games that I designed myself. One is called Kitten Clash. That one is actually a co-design. I designed it with my girlfriend. Um and uh I have a game out called uh Thrones of Valeria, which is a trick-taking game, uh, which most people would recognize as like hearts, or um all of a sudden all the trick-taking games are still are slipping my mind. But if you've played hearts, you've played a trick-taking game. Okay. Uh, and that's what my most recent game is. I've also got several games I've developed, Dino's Not Assembled, which is like a family weight game. It's meant to be played with like you and your kids kind of stuff. I developed a game called Thieves Den, and I've consulted on three or four other games that are primarily distributed through daily magic games. If you want to find out any more about any of that stuff, then you go you can go to my link tree where I have all of the links that you could ever need for for all of my stuff. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:12

And we're gonna have that link tree tied to the episode so that on all the podcasts, uh the different streaming, uh, people are able to find you and your links.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:21

So Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:22

Is there um is there one in particular that you're super proud of that's like your favorite one that you're like, you know what, this is the one that I'm gonna I'm going to recommend to people and that I'm most power proud of?

SPEAKER_05 1:19:33

Thrones of Valeria is the most widely available. Kitten Clash has been out long enough to where the publisher is starting to run out of copies and it might not be as easy to find. But um Thrones of Valeria, you should be able to walk into your local board game store and ask for it. And if they don't have it on the shelf, they can get it for you. Nice.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:50

So with these board games, do you uh go to like do you ever go to because I know that some places have like meetings where people can come in with communities and play board games with the vast majority of people on Friday nights or Saturday nights. Do you do you ever take the games out there to get people to to play against or to to participate in it?

SPEAKER_05 1:20:09

Yeah, I do play testing as often as I can. Right now I've got two games, two prototypes that are in the public playtesting. So they're in what I call beta. So I am taking them out to conventions and to play test groups. There's several groups that are in the local area that you can kind of organize through Discord or Facebook, depending on the group, and like meet up at a game shop and you can play test your games with them. I've got two games in beta, which is public playtesting, and I've got one game in alpha, which is still just like my core people play testing. I'm not publicly play testing that one as of yet. But yes, there are there are lots of outlets. If you're a board game designer and you're looking for playtesters, then hit me up on any of my socials. I'm happy to guide you.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:52

I love it. Are you planning on doing any of these uh board games eventually, make maybe them making them digital so that people can play them online or anything like that? Have you ever thought about going that route potentially?

SPEAKER_05 1:21:03

Yes. So that is I'm I'm a freelance board game designer, so that means I don't work for any for any one company. So I will make games and then take them out and play test them. And sometimes publishers see that and they like them and they will pick up the they will pay for the game and then they will publish it. Both of my beta prototypes that I have, I have versions of them on tabletop simulator because testing under COVID was very difficult because there was there was no conventions and you couldn't get together in public. So I'm put those games into tabletop simulator with the hopes of being able to play test them digitally. Whether or not they ever see the light of day publicly is another thing altogether. Hey, I mean you never know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:48

So with with these games, you know, with some of these games, I'm sure you have to kind of tell. So you do you put together like a story that these eventually kind of tell, and then you break it up into cards, or how how I don't know anything about board games, just to be honest. Yeah, that's fine. That's fine. So I'm intrigued by this. I'm listening to this when you were telling me about it. I'm like, well, I'm probably gonna have a lot of questions. I don't know if I'm gonna sound stupid asking them, but I'm funny ways. And and that's kind of like a lot of things.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:12

There's no way you're the only one with that question. Some of your listeners will have the same question, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:16

I I'm sure they will, but I'm sure that some of them will know exactly what we're talking about. They're gonna look at me like, Cody, you're such a dumb ass. We did we did this one time. Uh we we American overdose, anyways. My former uh guitar player slash producer, he loved playing uh uh what is it, uh GURPS? Yeah, GURPS. GURPS, yes. Yeah. So we did uh an online GURPS of online playing of that uh with video um as a band because he was the only one that was into it. We didn't know what the heck we were doing, and we did an online version of it and we recorded it, and fans were like chipping in and laughing at some of the things that we were saying while we were playing and just throwing their two cents on it. And of course, we were all sucking at it because we didn't know exactly what what to do or how to properly play it. Yeah, sure. You you played that game before? I am familiar with GERPS, yeah. Okay, it was it was complicated, I'm not gonna lie, but it was also something new that where I'm like it was it was one of those things I didn't know how the fans were going to take it, so it that I was like uh human. I don't know if this is gonna be uh something they're gonna be into. But there was people that liked it. So yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:18

Oh, was that human that that that was their idea?

SPEAKER_02 1:23:21

Yep, it was his idea because he plays uh he and I don't know, I haven't talked to him in a while, but he paints like the little miniature, the figurine guys, and he has like the whole setup at his house. Um if you play that, maybe reach out to him and see because I know he gets uh he gets people together, like groups of people, and they play um in person, and I don't know, he may be he may be someone you wanna you know shoot the shit with about about that.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:44

But yeah, I haven't talked to human in a really long time.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:47

Yeah, he he like Pete goes all detailed. He's got like a he made a whole space for his games, a table and paints his figurines, all sorts of stuff. He's into that, and that's cool. I think it's neat how he's able to airbrush and make them look so lifelike and all that. And yeah, sure. It takes talent to do that. So when you're putting these games together, so some of them I'm just I'm assuming you kind of have to tell a tale, or you do you like make a story of it, and then at that point decide, okay, we're gonna cut this up into playing cards, and those cards can lead to a certain path or a certain backtracking or or whatnot.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:17

How does that sure so I don't I don't generally tell a whole story with a game. What I kind of do is give give people a setting, and then through their actions as they play the game, they're kind of determining their story. Whether or not they want to, you know, share that story is another thing altogether, because oftentimes people don't for whatever reason. But yeah, I generally give a setting that uh like we're in a medieval tavern and you are sitting down and you are one of the players of this game with these other people, right? So I give you kind of a setting and you figure out where you're at in that setting. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:54

And then from there, does it I mean, do these games get like what what do they get violent? Do they get like oh, because I said no, you said that there were some family friendly games or are they all family friendly?

SPEAKER_05 1:25:06

Um all of the ones that I design, I design with the idea of a family playing them. So there are definitely games out there that have violence and and stuff like that in it. It's not generally games I design. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:21

And it's smart that you would target the family friendly so that it's available for more than just certainly.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:27

Well, any any game that's family friendly is gonna sell better than a game that's not family friendly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:33

The degenerates like me that'd be like, hey, that one's rated, but sure, I definitely want to sell. Sure. So what took you from uh what got what got you away from the podcasting? Well, I guess let's see what what got you into podcasting, and and especially since you know you were, like I said, one of the very first people that I know of that was doing podcasting. What got you into it? What intrigued you by it? What did you love about it? What did you hate about it? What got you out of it? Like uh tell me tell me some more about that so that uh I can understand like how that all went.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:00

Yeah, for sure. So it's actually kind of a uh it was a couple step process. One is we had a local radio station. Well, it was local in the sense that it was based a couple towns over, so it was based in Eugene, and they had a metal show. It was like one hour from 11 p.m. to 12 a.m. on a Sunday night. So no one's gonna listen anyway. And they would never play what I consider to be good metal, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:26:26

It was your it was probably like the hard rock bands, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:26:28

Like in Yeah, they would play a lot of your like really introductory to metal type bands, a lot of pop a roach and like maybe up to kill switch engage, but they would never get further in. And I I wanted to hear like a mixture of things, like I wanted to hear industrial, and I wanted to hear black metal, and I wanted to hear death metal, and I like I wanted a mixture of those things. I didn't want all a bunch of stuff that I could find in a thousand different places. I wanted to discover new stuff, you know what I mean? Yeah, so and I was always very I don't know, I'm a Pacific Northwest guy, so I I like supporting the local scene. So uh I kinda I started getting into local bands and going and seeing their shows, and I was like, oh man, that radio station should have some of these local bands on from time to time. And I'm like, well, if I if I were doing the show, I'd do it this way, that kind of thing. Yep. And I would I would talk about that all the time with my brother Ben, who was also part of the podcast. And and then the way I found out about podcasting was now you have to understand this was a different time. I was a big fan of Dane Cook.

SPEAKER_10 1:27:29

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:30

And he was like, Yeah, he was my favorite comedian at the time. This is all before the accusations and whatnot. And uh I found out he had a podcast so he could interact with his fans, and I was like, oh, that's kind of a cool thing. So I was listening to his podcast, and it kind of dawned on me that I could put these two things together, that I could I could put my money where my mouth is, so to speak, with all the shit talking I did of the our local metal show, right? And I I could do my own, and um I decided that. I wanted to work with mostly local bands well because that's what I cared about at the time. I did listen to other bands, but I was very into my local scene at the time. So my brother and I started a podcast dedicated to local metal.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:14

Love that. I love that. Yeah, you guys were and you guys were really good at it. You guys were you guys made a great team. Um, like I said, I remember uh the the when I heard the one where you guys were you guys were around in the mall, I think. You guys were messing around at the mall in Salem with Still Dead, yeah. With Still Dead, and then uh I remember when you guys did Wild War Cannery at the Liberty Spirit. Yeah. I have video footage of that actually, still, where you guys were all we were all outside uh drinking beers and recording, and then Rommel shows up with Beast Van. Yeah, and I think you guys fed the Beast Van some beer and like were putting the microphone up to it. It was just a bunch of young guys with craziness having a good time. Absolutely. And all that. How long did you do the podcast for? And then what got eventually got you like just out of it and just losing interest?

SPEAKER_05 1:29:02

Or so we did the podcast for two to three years. I can't get you the exact dates. Well, maybe I can. Hold on a second. It was sorry, I'm trying to date myself here.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:15

It's all good. Man, what's funny is that all of this seems like it was just yesterday, but this was years ago. We're talking like what, 2008, 9, 10-ish.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:24

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it was absolute, it's been a long time.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:28

I think you guys might have been at the very first AOD show, too. As a matter of fact, I think when we played at my brother's uh mobile home that he was getting rid of, I think you guys might have showed up and it was we got Wild Board of come play last minute. It was us and then I think another band, and we destroyed that mobile home because he was getting it uh repo or something. And we I just remember he we threw a kegger and then we ran out of kegs, like or we ran out of beer like right away because we had so many people there, and then we had to get another kegger. Uh it oh my god, that was a wild, wild time. But I remember you and your brother were there for for a while, and then yeah, we were at a couple of AOD shows.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:05

We there was also one that I think was in a basement. Wild Boar played that one too.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:09

Yeah, well, we used to play the Wasteland a lot. Maybe, maybe that was Wasteland was in Salem. It was that warehouse like in the middle of nowhere. You guys put on a lot of shows, I believe, at that place for a while. We did as well.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:19

We really did. It w it was a great venue, it just wasn't run properly, I guess is the right term.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:24

I agree. 100%. It was fun because it gave people something to do other than just mope around because a lot of the venues in Salem they've opened up and then they close as quickly as they as they open. And it's like there's nothing for the kids to do. And I just remember that place many times was packed with kids because I think uh it would max out like 50 or 60 people were allowed in that thing. And I don't even know if there's any local like for for kids now to go see music anymore in Salem, but yeah, I've been so far out of the scene at this point that I I don't know anything about any of that anymore. Yeah, I was gonna say, so what what eventually got you out? Like what made you say, you know what, I'm down to this?

SPEAKER_05 1:31:00

Yeah, so um the way playing someone else's music on your podcast is a very iffy point, legally speaking. If you're primarily working with local bands, you can shoot them a message on MySpace and they will generally say yes, and then they'll ask you what a podcast is. So, or at least that was my experience. We wanted to play bigger bands. Like, I I remember a new White Chapel record came out. What White Chapel record was it? I don't remember, but a new White Chapel record had came out, and and both Ben and I were really, really excited for it. And we wanted to play the new song on our podcast, and so I started delving into like, okay, well, I don't want our podcast to get kicked off of our platform for for a copyright issue. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 1:31:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:48

So I was like, well, what do I have to do to get into this? And it was quite the process. You have to uh go apply for a media, a media licensure from the record label. So Whitechapel was at the time they were on a Metal Blade, I think. Metal Blade Records. A Marion or Metal Blade, one of those. Yeah, yeah. Um, at the time they were they were on that label, and so I I reached out to that label and trying to get a media licensure. And they were like, okay, well, we need to know like how many clicks you're getting and how many downloads you're getting and what platforms you're available on, and like we had to jump through a whole bunch of hoops, right?

SPEAKER_10 1:32:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:27

But we finally did get their approval, so we could we could we ended up playing it the week after we really wanted to, but that's okay. The thing that came with that is that that I did not know at the time is you now got put on a list where you could download that that um record label's entire library of music. So so I got added to this to this webpage where I could go in and like those old slayer records that were on Metal Blade, yeah, I'll take those. Like and I and I could just have them and I could play them on my podcast anytime I wanted. And I was like, this is really fucking cool. Yeah. So I started asking other record labels for the same thing, and most of them I had to explain to them what a podcast was. So so once that started happening, then we started getting like chances to interview these bigger bands and whatnot. So because I was so excited and it felt like we were gonna be really adding on a lot of listeners, I started leaning a little more towards the the quote unquote popular metal music, right? We still did a lot of a lot of work with locals right before we ended. After about a year of doing that, it started to get kind of grindy and it wasn't really all that much fun anymore. So I didn't really want to do it anymore. And then we had a member of my family that had a health crisis and needed like around the clock care. So we were all taking turns helping out my stepdad and trying to help him recover from from a stroke. So it was like, okay, well, I I really could be putting my time elsewhere. I'm not making enough money from this podcast to call it a job by any means. Yeah. So yeah, I ended up canceling the show out of lack of interest, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:10

That makes sense. And you know what? That's an honorable thing to do because at that point you were you're taking care of family, you were recognizing what uh what you needed to do to get what you needed to have done, you know, that was most important at that time. And then when you're losing the passion, man, like that's that's really what fuels everything. Like I always tell people, I'm like, the band doesn't make me money. I promise you, if anything, I get in debt. Major debt. Major, major, major debt. I'll probably never ever make the money that I've put into this band, but I love it. I love what I do, and that's what I always tell people. I'm like, I I I promote people uh doing things for the love of it, for the art of it, for the for the passion. Money comes and goes and it won't make you happy at the end of the day. Sure. But at the same time, you do need money, you need to make your your pay your bill. To pay your bills, you have to work a job and you have to do certain things. If something you're doing isn't fun and it's preventing you from getting other things done so you can pay your bills, you gotta you gotta you know, cut the tie and maybe revisit it later if you get that again. But why do something that you don't have a drive for anymore or passion? I always get asked too, because I love to cook and I post a lot of pictures of food. Like, why don't you why don't you cook for a living? Why don't you go be a chef or this? I'm like because I I know damn well that I would if I was doing it for a job or for a living, I would hate it. I would not love it. And I love cooking for my friends and family. Yeah, I love like showing off, like, here, like eat this, try this, whatever, and seeing what it brings to them, like happiness. But if I had to do it for a living for strangers and then food getting sent back and shaky eaters and all that, I wouldn't want to do it anymore.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:41

Sure. Um yeah. Board games is definitely a labor of love type of thing, too. There's not a lot of money in board games.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:48

Yeah, I was gonna say, so I don't think I've ever met anyone that that creates board games, but I think that's I think it's so cool that you are you are doing that. So right now you said you're in the middle of how many projects for like you have a couple of different ones you're working on?

SPEAKER_05 1:36:00

Yeah, so I've got uh I've got two games in in beta, I've got one game in alpha, I've got another game that that I'm kind of working on that literally this morning my girlfriend was like, hey, what if we made a game that did this? And so we built a prototype that did that, and it wasn't so broken that we that it was trash. So we were like, okay, this needs some work and we'll need to put some time into it, but there's definitely a game here. So even pre-alpha, I guess you could say. But yeah, I've got I've got several games that are in the works.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:30

I love it. And how do you typically do you like set goal date lot dates dates that you're like, all right, we need to be by this point done this far into the game? Is that typically how you do it, or you just kind of like trial and error, trial and error until you feel like it's right and it's to the point where you're happy with it?

SPEAKER_05 1:36:46

Well, so I'm I'm a little bit spoiled here in that my first couple of games were givens. So, like, we the first game we designed was a game called Kitten Clash, and there was a board game publisher that was like, Hey, you should totally pitch us on your on this type of game, and if we like it, then we will sign it and release it. And we and me and my girlfriend were like, Oh, that sounds pretty fucking cool. So we did that, and they liked the game enough to like send us send us a very happy email, but it wasn't quite up to what they were hoping for. And so that email was very kind and it it kind of gave us hope. It was like, oh, maybe we could make this a game. I mean, we don't have to sell it to this company, we can sell it to one of the other publishers, right? Yeah, and so that's what we did. We we moved up to Portland because we lived in Hillsborough for a while. We live in Corvallis now, so we we moved up to Hillsborough so we could get close to the design scene and like go to more conventions and whatnot.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:48

And we managed to find a publisher for it at a convention that we went to in Portland, and they were like, This is nothing like what we've ever published. We love the idea because we we we've never had a game that would do this, so we want to do it. And um that game we had only been working on it like three or four months, and it was like all of a sudden signed. So it was like, oh, crazy, okay. Well, that was rather easy. Um, and then we went the publisher of that game uh wanted us to wanted to fly us out to a um to a convention in Ohio so we could help at the booth and sell games and and teach games and whatnot. So we went on that trip with the publisher and I was play testing a game during my off time when I wasn't working in a booth, and that publisher was like, Hey, I heard you're playtesting a game here. I'm like, Yeah. He goes, Why didn't you show it to me? And I'm like, I didn't know if you would want it. So I I hadn't really been giving pitches yet. I've I've just been play testing. And he goes, Well, give me your pitch. And I said, Okay, so I gave him my pitch, and he's like, Okay, that's interesting. And uh it kind of stopped there, and I was like, Oh, you know, he gave me some feedback on it, and that that was helpful. So I'm I moved on and continued play testing and eventually started pitching to other companies, and then like a couple years goes by, and I get this text out of the out of nowhere that's from that publisher. He's like, Hey, you remember this this uh trick-taking game that you showed me a couple years ago? And I'm like, barely. I don't that's I don't even have that game anymore. I threw it away. And he's like, I kind of like it. And I'm like, oh, okay. He goes, Kit, I'm I'm gonna put it up on tabletop simulator, and will you play it with me? This is during COVID. Uh if you can play it with me, I'd love to show it to you. And said, Okay. Uh so I I got on tabletop simulator and we got in a Discord call. And I was like, Yeah, I think this is pretty great. I like the little changes that you made, and I think they're good for the game. And he goes, Yeah, I think we want to publish it. And I said, Oh, okay. And he goes, I'll send you a contract. And I said, Oh, all right, sure. So those two games kind of came out of nowhere. Like I didn't, I wasn't really trying with those games, they just kind of happened, right? So now yeah, so so now these other games that I've that I've had for a couple of years, well, more than a couple of years, because I was play to playtesting them pre-COVID. So five or six years are the ones that are in beta. I they're they have been with a publisher, like a publisher signed them, but then during COVID, that publisher went under. So I had to wait for my because when you sign a contract with a board game, you're signing contract for a certain period of time. So in gen generally, it's two years. And that contract says that if you that you have this this property that I created and you have two years to do something with it. If you don't, I get those rights back and I can go pitch to another company if I want.

SPEAKER_08 1:40:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:44

So I kind of when they went under, I emailed them and I was like, so what does this mean for my games? Like, I understand I'm not trying to be an asshole here about your situation, what what you're going through, but but I think it's a fair question, what happens with my games now? And they said, Well, your contract expires in three months. So in three months, if we don't publish a game with that, if we don't publish publish your game, you get your game back and and our contract is void. I'm like, oh, okay. So I just waited out the three months so I could start pitching again, right?

SPEAKER_08 1:41:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:18

So those games are in the process of being pitched. We're not going to as many conventions as we were pre-COVID, because pre-COVID, we were doing 12 conventions a year, and there's an off-season of convention season of four months. So, like from October to February, there's really not any conventions that are happening in the Americas for board games specifically. Why, I don't know. There are a couple that happen in November, but yeah, so so we were doing several conventions. Sometimes we we ended up having to go to a convention in Portland, and then the following weekend we had to go to a convention in Baltimore, Maryland, and then the weekend after that we had to go to a convention in Seattle. And that I just remember that being the most hectic schedule I'd ever held. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:42:06

Yeah, going all over the place. I was gonna say, so there I'm I was about to ask, like, what's the closest one to us? And you said Portland. Like I'm assuming that it goes to all the major cities like Chicago, LA, Miami, that those kind of places, or sure. For for like Comic Cons and whatnot, yeah. Um Is that typically where these take place? Like the board game ones?

SPEAKER_05 1:42:25

Are they are they happening at the Comic Con type of things or the it used to be exclusively that that Comic Con would have like a board game room, like a like a big ballroom at a local hotel that you could go in there and play a bunch of board games, either that you brought yourself or they would provide a library. But then because those sections of Comic Cons kept growing and growing and they didn't have any more room to put them in, they started just giving them their own cons. So you had all these little regional cons, like for for Portland, GameStorm is the big one, or Camoricon. Comoricon is interesting because it's kind of an anime convention and kind of a board gaming convention. So if you like either of those things, you'll end up liking the other by the end of the weekend.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:06

I still have not gone to a Comic Con. We were supposed to be a part of one some years ago, and it I think uh it was right before or like shortly after COVID happened. Like it was still kind of the middle of it, and so they had to cancel it, and it was just it turned into be a complete shit show. But I've yet to go and I've always wanted to go just to check it out, just because I've seen like a lot of pictures and it looks like a lot of fun. I'm assuming these board game ones would be fun too. I grew up playing board games like Monopoly, Life, sorry, like the classics. The classics, the classics games, and and even to this day, now like I as an adult, now that I'm not so much a not a partier anymore at all, when I'm hanging out with friends, I do enjoy playing some card games or board games or whatever they teach me. I've learned a couple recently, and I can't, I don't even know the names of them, but Cards Against Humanity is a typical one that we end up playing a lot of.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:52

Sure, sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:53

That tracks. One of the things I like to encourage listeners on this podcast to do is to chase their dreams and don't listen to uh people out there that are the naysayers that or when something seems like it may be impossible or too hard or it's not worth it or whatnot. So I'd kind of like you to describe what kind of what kind of tasks it took for you to get to this point. Like what made you finally say, you know what, I want to make my own board game. What kind of things did you learn along the way? What kind of failures did you and and obstacles did you encounter and how did you overcome them? Just give me some something that I I can we can have on the on the listener side to to kind of give encouragement and see that there's gonna be there's gonna be obstacles that get in your way, but you just gotta keep pushing forward.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:39

Sure, sure, yeah. So I'm I'm gonna speak from a very narrow perspective in that I am a straight white male. Like I'm the most generic person out there. And that's not a complaint, that's just I I'm trying to recognize that I have privilege in this in this industry, even even more than people might imagine. Because there is a lot of there's a lot of straight white dude developers and and designers out there. And we need more women, we need more people of color, we need more LGBTQ designers and and whatnot, because it's I'm speaking from a very narrow perspective. So I will tell you some of the the struggles that I faced, although there are people out there that have it worse. So I'm I'm just trying to recognize that that I understand. When I first started making board games, it started as I was playing a board game with friends, and I was like, So this is how this works, right? And I do it that way, and they're like, No, that's not how it works. I'm like, but that's how it should work because intuitively how this game goes, this is how this should work. And they're like, Well, make your own game that does that then. And I was like, fine, I will. And then I made the most terrible game I've ever made, and it it didn't even get past play testing, it just fell apart. And usually when a play test goes bad, you can determine why. You can look at it and go, Oh, okay, well, the players didn't feel like they had them as much information as they needed throughout the game, so I should make little cards that explain certain things to them so they can reference that and make them feel more welcome in the game.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:10

The setbacks. When you were first starting out, you had this game and it fell flat from what you were expecting it to. Yes. And then how did you overcome that? What at what point were you like? Did you go back to the drawing board and say, okay, this has worked, this worked very well, and this didn't work, and how do I fix these? And how do I make it so that this doesn't happen in the game or how we learn from this? That's kind of what I'm trying to get is like that kind of information.

SPEAKER_05 1:46:35

Sure. So I had probably six games that I that never got past alpha. Um, my f my first my first game was so bad that I couldn't figure out where it was wrong. There were so many breaks in it that it it was not worth pursuing at that point. So I had to kind of come to the idea that I had to get used to the idea that I had to kill this idea that I loved at one point in time. You know what I mean? Yep. And and so you you I think the most important thing to keep in mind is knowing what your limits are. Right? Yes, exactly. And then and then being able to either be okay with that being your limit or reach past it. Because sometimes you just have to push through. Now, in the case of my first game, there was no pushing through. It was garbage. So the best thing for that game was to go back to the drawing board, right? Do something else. Most of my games nowadays come from something that was broken in the previous game.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:33

So lessons were learned along the way from things that didn't work, and you're like, you know what, I like this. Let's go ahead and work with this idea within it's kind of like when I'll just use the analogy. Like sometimes I'll write a song and like the song I just don't like it, but there's this just one little piece, and that can inspire something completely different. I put it in my head, like as that's how I'm understanding it.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:54

Yeah, absolutely that's absolutely accurate. So being able to gauge when is when is time to push forward and when is time to give up on an idea? Because sometimes you just have to do that. But you do it in the pursuit of what the idea could be. Yes, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:11

Uh makes a hundred percent sense. Are you using people that are you using close family friend family members and friends? Are you using people that uh you know that game a lot, or what kind of like when you're doing these uh these testings, like you said, the alpha, the alpha testings and the beta testings. Are you using people that are close friends and family? Are you typically reaching out to people that you know are gamers that would be like very particular? Are you finding people that you know have real analytical thinking brains that can you know break it, so to speak?

SPEAKER_05 1:48:38

Sure, yeah, absolutely. I I can kind of go through that process if you'd like.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:42

Yeah, yeah. But explain that I love the the whole process of something because that's the that's where you know that's where the good information is that can help people, I think, with their sure.

SPEAKER_05 1:48:51

So for me, and everyone's a little bit different, but for me, playtesting has several stages. It has alpha, it has beta, it has current, and it has demo. So what that means is in alpha testing, for me, it's the same about eight people. It's my my close friends that live nearby that I play a lot of board games with. Some of them are also designers, so that's my alpha group. If I I gotta make a game playable according to them before I can ever make it available for anybody else. That makes sense. Once you're out of alpha, you're in beta. Now, this is where I'm going to play testing events, like our local game store has a playtesting event every other Saturday, so you can come in and test your your board games there, right? So there I'm taking the game to conventions. I'm reaching out to people that I know play games and are very good at playing games, not necessarily good at winning games, but they're good at playing games. Yeah. And I might send them a link to a print and play and have them print out a copy of the version themselves and then play it and tell me what they think or give me any feedback, right? Yep. And then the the next state of playtesting is demo. So this is usually I have I have a publisher that is interested, so I can't make a lot of changes to this game. I can only make tiny changes to this game because they like it the way it is, so I don't want to break it. I don't want to chase the publisher away. Yeah. But I still want to play test the game and work out little tweaks. You know what I mean? So that's the demo. And then the last one is is support. And that's not really playtesting. That's more like showing off that I are um a game that's already out there, right? Like, hey, come check out my game. It's already available. It's not really a playtest, it's just kind of like a show off. Yep. So I've I've got two games that are in demo, and I've got two games that are in beta. So and one game in alpha. I love that. I don't know if that helps at all.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:49

No, it does definitely help. That definitely helps. It's it's I always love hearing people talk about their processes because everyone does things, like you said, differently and everyone faces different uh struggles that come along their way, and you can only speak for yourself, right? You're not speaking for a whole bunch. And you know building a game, I think for me, uh, if I was doing it, it would be very challenging because I sometimes I can be super over analytical, and then other times I can just be like, you know what, I just want to get through this damn thing right now. Let's just and then I don't think about all those pieces that are really important, you know what I mean? So I think that I would have some major challenges just because of how my brain works and how my personality can be uh fluctuates on things like that. But I think the the big message here is, you know, if you're you're loving something and you're um you know you have you're passionate about something, you're you're gonna have your ups and downs and the the you learn from take those falls or those things that you know don't turn out the way you want them to, learn from those and move forward if you if you um if you still have desire and for what it is that you're chasing after.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:56

Absolutely. Like playtesting can be so hard to overcome because you'll especially once you're into beta, because you have so many people playing your game that more than you ever thought would ever play it when you started making it. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:52:11

Yeah. And is it hard to like decipher like what but because I'm sure you're gonna get feedback from all sorts of different people. Is it hard to is it really hard when you're getting like you're getting pulled one way and you're getting pulled the other way and deciding, okay, where's the common middle ground that I can make a decision on that that's gonna work kind of for everybody if I can, or at least appease the majority?

SPEAKER_05 1:52:31

Yeah, it's it's definitely you you also you have to worry about the quality of your feedback because sometimes you get feedback that isn't necessary at all. Oh yeah. That are like, hey, the game didn't have any art. It's like I'm play testing it. Why would I make a bunch of art for a game I might throw away? Like I don't okay, whatever. So that's not necessary feedback, right? Yep, yep. And then you have people that are just like, this is not my kind of game, hated it. Oh, okay. Well, what did you not like about it? Oh, I just didn't like it. That goes in the garbage. Okay, well, I don't know what to do with that. So so thank you. And I had a form that people could fill out anonymously so they didn't have to feel like they were pulling their punches or anything like that. Yeah. So there's definitely times where you get feedback and you're like, why do I even bother sometimes?

SPEAKER_02 1:53:17

Yeah, I mean, I get that, and I deal with that sometimes like with stuff at work and at even with the band, like when you get feedback, is like people everyone has got an opinion, and sometimes people get it, and sometimes people just don't get it, and it's fine. That's that's you can't you can't make everyone happy, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_05 1:53:33

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:35

But that that I I love I love that you're doing that, man. That's so cool with the with the board games. Like it's it's uh like I said, you're the first person I've ever met that I can say that I know that creates board games, and that's pretty pretty cool. So I was talking to a buddy of ours uh earlier, uh Joshua Rommel. Shout out to him. He's my bass player, by the way, for anyone listening. Yeah, he was telling me he's got some wild, crazy stories with you, and he's like, he wanted to come on the podcast, but he hasn't. I don't know, he's not I asked him what his email was, he didn't respond back, so he must be busy working on something crazy, like always. But he's like, make sure and say hello and uh bring up that time that we were at stars and that one time we went to the Summer Slaughter Tour, and he just mentioned all these crazy times you guys had, and he's like, have him tell some stories about when him and I would were hanging out back in the day.

SPEAKER_05 1:54:23

Yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah, I got I got definitely one. So there was this is a very long time ago, probably 2011, 2012. Yeah, something like that. Where uh my wife at the time and I were um going to Hawaii, and we were gonna spend the the night before in a hotel in Portland because our flight was hella early, right? And so we wanted to go to Darcell's, which is a like a drag bar. Yep. Yeah, they do they do drag shows, right? And I was like, all right, that sounds fun to me, whatever. I'm I'm not a I'm not a super manly man, so I'm not the kind of guy that gets offended if a guy hits on him or whatever, you know what I mean? But at the time, I remember it seemed like Rommel was the kind of guy that was bothered by that kind of thing. Maybe maybe he's not like that anymore, but at the time, so me and my wife at the time uh called up Rommel and his girlfriend at the time and asked them to go to Darcell's with us. I was hardcore expecting Rommel to say no. They said yes, and so the four of us went to Darcell's, and there was a dude wearing only like leather draws and long platinum white hair doing Lady Gaga songs. Oh man. And he kept, I guess he just saw someone in the front row and decided to poke at him. Yep, but he kept going to Rommel and like shaking his ass in his face and stuff like that. And it was so funny to watch watch Rommel. We were seated against the wall, front row against the wall, and it it was so funny to watch him try to phase through that wall backwards. I can just imagine. Was so hysterical, it was my absolute favorite thing at all ever.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:10

It's funny to hear that because I was gonna say, Rommel is the kind of guy that uh he likes to do things for shock value, like he will do all sorts of crazy stuff. Yeah. The way you shock Rommel is you have to outdo him in some way, shape, or form where he's not expecting it. So either A, not react to when he's doing something crazy or just double down on what he's doing and and uh and surprise him that way. I had like I've got tons of stories obviously with him. Oh, I bet. With touring and whatnot. There was one night that we were trying to go to bed. We had just got back from late night from playing the show, and I believe we were in, I want to say we were in Idaho or or Nebraska, forget which one. It was uh along the way to uh the the Midwest that we were heading to for shows. And we were at the hotel, we had just got done playing a show, and we're tired as hell, and we split the we had one hotel room for three of the guys and another hotel room for the other three guys, and the there was a door in the middle way of the middle of the of the section of the the two rooms that we had. Yeah, they were conjoined rooms, conjoined rooms, yep. And my brother Pete, he was tired as hell, and he's one of those guys, like he's just when he's tired, leave him the fuck alone because he will freak the hell out. And so he's on the bed asleep, and I'm laying there trying to decompress from playing the show and just being tired and trying to go to sleep and whatnot. And then all of a sudden, I hear brick busting through the door with like it sounded like mail stripper porno 70s music. And Rommel comes jumping in and he's wearing this silver man-thong G string type of heel, and he's dancing completely almost naked, his butt's out, and fucking he's jumping from one bed where I'm on to the bed that Pito's on, and like shaking his ass and like getting really close to my brother with his junk. And oh my god, my brother was pissed. He's like, Damn, I'm fucking trying to sleep. Get the fuck out of here. What the hell are you wearing? And like this guy was just it was ridiculous, but it was hilarious at the same time. I'm like, man, I just I never know what to expect with that guy. Like, you you he will he will surprise the hell out of you. Like uh so it's it's funny to hear that he was shocked at the uh at the Darcell's show because uh it's t totally he's very different, I think, now like where he's just like eh, whatever. Yeah. He he he he probably would have grabbed the guy's balls if anything nowadays. Like he'd just been like, uh, now what? To show him up. But back at you now. Balls of your court. Yeah. So uh that's hilarious. That's that's so funny that uh that happened. He told me to mention something about something crazy that happened at that. I guess you picked him up at at uh Bridgeport Stars one night at a show in the middle of the night or after a show or something. You guys had some crazy night. I don't know. I don't recall that. The Summer Slaughter Tour, something about the Summer Slaughter Tour, you guys went to that together.

SPEAKER_05 1:58:46

Yeah, I think it was probably Summer Slaughter. Yeah, probably No, I feel like it was at the Hawthorne. Maybe the Hawthorne. Hawthorne had that big parking lot in the back where everyone had to park their like band vans and stuff. Yep, yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hawthorne. But maybe I'm wrong. Man, I've been to so many shows, it's hard to tell them apart.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:04

I was gonna say, um, did we go? I think we I think we met up with you and your brother, or no, I think I took your brother. Never mind. Your brother rode up to with us to a show. I think we either went to Five Finger together uh when they played the Roselind. This is before they blew up, and then I think we might have gone to Guar together as well, but I don't remember. I just remember the there was a Guar. I could have were you at Guar? Did you ever go to Guar with Roseland? No.

unknown 1:59:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:28

I'm not a big Guar fan. Okay. Might have been might have been your brother that went with us. I don't remember. We used to hang out with your brother a lot too. So crazy times, man. It's it's it's it's so funny how all of us have grown up, but I love that we're all still doing what we love. We're still doing, we may be doing different things, but we're doing we're doing the things that we love. This this podcast, I started it uh just out of having some free time, and I've always wanted to do a podcast. I know that there's tons of them out there, so I'm just one in a one in a billion people that are already have their own podcasts and everything. But yeah, it's fun to do. I get to talk to old friends like you and get to know about what you're doing, share it with people, promote it. I'm hoping uh that the podcast is gonna help push my friends' journeys and their stories and you know their passions and help them make sales and help them make fans for their music and for all that. That's what I'm hoping to do with this podcast is just connect people and focus on positivity versus all the negativity that's out there on the damn internet already. So um give people a little place of peace. Yes, exactly. And where we can just talk and shoot the shit and not not have to worry about uh the craziness of the world and you know, and and all connect and come together knowing that everyone's got struggles, everyone's facing something, and um, if someone can find something from these podcasts and they can say that gives me some hope, or I can relate to that, I'm not alone. That's ultimately the goal, and I I love knowing that I can try to help with that, and that's what that's what the goal is with this. So we're coming close to time here. Is there anything else you'd like to share with the listeners and tell anything else about what you're doing?

SPEAKER_05 2:00:58

We spend a lot of time on board games, which is not a complaint, that's fine by me. But I do make horror gaming content on YouTube and Twitch. I am PW Beard and both of those places, or you can find links in the link tree that Cody's providing.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:11

So I wanted to touch base on that because uh so I didn't want you to think that I wasn't listening to what you were saying. No, it's a so can you explain a little bit more about that, what that was? Because I thought that you were creating video games in the horror, and that's why I went into the the Friday the 13th video game.

SPEAKER_05 2:01:23

Can you explain more about that? So you've seen people play video games on the internet, right? Yes. Yeah. So I am doing that, but I I only play video uh horror games. So what horror games are you playing? Man.

SPEAKER_10 2:01:35

Like what are the good ones that people should check out?

SPEAKER_05 2:01:38

The good ones that people should check out. I you know what what's funny is I just put up at the beginning of uh just a couple weeks ago, at the towards the beginning of January, is I put up a top ten list of the top ten games I played last year, which um is saying a lot because I play like three games a week.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:55

So I would say if you want to pull that up and share it, that I that'd be cool if you'd like one read them off and oh yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 2:02:01

Sorry, it'll just take me a second.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:02

What do you what do you what uh platform are you playing on?

SPEAKER_05 2:02:04

Uh so I play on PC mostly.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:06

PC, cool.

SPEAKER_05 2:02:07

Yeah. I do have a Switch and I play games on on my Switch, but it's usually Stardew Valley, it's nothing horror related. Okay. Have you messed around with uh VRDL? I have. So both of my kids have a meta quest and I tried. Or two or three, or which one do they got?

SPEAKER_02 2:02:22

It's a it's a three. Nice. I just got one myself.

SPEAKER_05 2:02:25

Yeah, we we originally got them on on the on the one. We got the meta quest one, and it was quite a piece of garbage, but uh it made us want to get a meta quest two. So we had to, and the kids have upgraded to threes already. Nice. But there there's lots of horror games available on there, and what I found out is that I get motion sickness.

SPEAKER_10 2:02:45

Yep, it gives you a headache a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 2:02:46

Like trying to trying to walk through those games, it it's really weird. So I don't I don't play much on the on the VR anymore. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:55

So Rommel just actually Rommel just sent me his email. Do you want me to bring him on while you're doing that? If you want to, that'd be wonderful. Okay, let's go ahead and bring him on. I'm gonna send him the link right now. I know he's been wanting to talk to you, so uh I'm surprised he didn't bring up the time.

SPEAKER_05 2:03:10

You know what? Maybe I'll wait till he's on to do that.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:12

Yeah, wait till bringing on. It'll be cool to surprise him. So yeah, I was gonna say, uh, with me, I can I can wear the headset and do it for I can do it for a bit. And then after that, I'm like, all right, my head's hurting. And at that point, it's like, I'm like, all right, I gotta pull this off. And I'll take it off for a while, and then I get to the point where I'm like, all right, I want to watch something on YouTube. And it it's fun to have the screen like where you can move it around and I can be laying on my couch and I can just look straight up and see something on YouTube or sure watch a movie or whatnot. And yeah, my girlfriend looks at me all funky because I've been horrible about this. I have not done the whole mapping of the your house yet. I try to do it, but it doesn't pick it up very well, probably because of the like furniture I have around the house or something. And so when I'm playing some of the games where I have to move around, um I've I've hit my hand on the wall, I've almost hit the TV and all that, and I'm like, oh no, like so. Some of the games I'm like I have to be more careful with, but I I've been enjoying it. I've been enjoying using it, learning it, and they give you free games and all that. So I didn't know they made horror games on that, so that's cool to know that they that that's available.

SPEAKER_05 2:04:17

Yeah, the one that I was playing that that I couldn't finish was The Exorcist. Well, an Exorcist game. How realistic is it? Or is it is it still kind of cartoonish or um as far as like visually it's it's very cartoonish to me. Unless you're talking about like the surroundings, like the rooms you're moving through and whatnot. Because those can be very realistic, but that's because they're mostly static, right?

SPEAKER_08 2:04:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:04:43

But it it was like trying to turn corners really quick would make me sick, so I had to stop playing them.

SPEAKER_02 2:04:48

That makes sense. Yeah, it's like I said, my eyes, like I feel like I I'm squinting constantly, and then I get I get like a mind grain if I'm on it too long. So I've limited what I've you know do with it. I have an Xbox, Xbox One S, I think is what it is. Yeah, Xbox One. Um and I play once in a blue moon, but lately, like I said, I've been keeping very busy with band stuff and now with the podcast editing and recording and all that fun stuff. So it's like I barely have time for video games. When I do have time to just kind of chill, usually I'll just want to lay down on the couch and then handle any emails or social media that I need to handle. But sure. I just gotta get busy. I gotta keep busy, busy, busy, because otherwise I find myself into trouble.

SPEAKER_10 2:05:28

Yeah. Very easily. I understand that.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:30

Did you have the list? Oh wait, Rommel. Yes. Yeah, sorry. I sent it to Rama when he comes in. He'll come in. He'll show us that he's uh waiting in the room. So he's waiting on the email is what he's telling me right now.

SPEAKER_05 2:05:40

Okay. Um, so my number 10 game of last year was Cabin Factory, nine was wrong floor, eight was order thirteen, seven was a little indie game called Cold. Six was I'm counting to six. That's the name of the game. I know it's weird, but that's it. What's it about? I'm counting to six is uh it took me about an hour to play. So it's a pretty short game, but your um you've your car has crashed and you've woken up in like this abandoned village that seems haunted, and so you're having to like explore the houses and whatnot. It it was really good. It's creepy, very creepy. I like that. Very good at building an atmosphere. That was my number six game. I'm counting to six. Number five, welcome home. Number four, a quiet place, number three, grandmother's garden, number two, missing children, and number one, sagebrush. Sagebrush? Sagebrush. Sagebrush. I think I've heard of that one. What what's that one about? Yeah, that one you're uh so you're exploring the compound that belonged to this dead cult, like everyone in the cult's dead now. And you're trying to learn their story like an archaeologist, kind of, almost, if that makes sense. Yep. You're trying to learn the story of based on just like what's in the buildings that are left on the compound, right? So you can figure out like where the classroom was, and oh, this must have been a like a farm, or oh, and here's the the quarters, like where people lived and stuff. And you're like finding little pieces of lore through tape cassettes and letters and whatnot. It's really cool game.

SPEAKER_06 2:07:13

I love it.

SPEAKER_05 2:07:13

Yeah. And I I love a game that's culty.

SPEAKER_02 2:07:16

Yeah, I I was gonna say, I I don't I think the only the only games I've ever played that were the only games I've ever played that were horror games were the Friday the 13th game and the Resident Evil, I want to say two or three. It was the one that first came out on the N64 way back in the day. So when I was a kid, that that game was kind of creepy, the the Resident Evil one, especially being I think I was only like in fifth grade when it came out or something like that. So that one was creepy. But the Friday 13th one was really creepy. That one uh that one really threw threw me for like I I never thought that a video game would make me feel creepy. Like where I was like, oh crap. So I was sad when they got rid of it. I just I don't understand what made them do that, but yeah, I don't know. It is what it is. Maybe there were not enough people. It seemed like they had a a cult fall, and from what I understand too, it was uh fan, was it fan made or it was like a something something there's some story behind it where it was like underground made or something like that. So it was independently run or licensing or something was up, and and so they had to do away with it. So yeah, it looks like I sent the email to the wrong person. That's why he's like, it's I haven't seen it yet. I'm like, well, it's probably because I sent it to the wrong person. So I just sent it to the correct person here.

SPEAKER_06 2:08:23

Yeah. I like that that's your voice for Rommel. The Rommel voice. Yeah. This is Rommel. You sent it the wrong email, you idiot.

SPEAKER_02 2:08:30

That's Rommel. He sounds like, oh, here he is, here he is, Captain Inseno. Look who we have here, Captain Insano, Mr. Rommel. What's going on, buddy? The good thing is that people won't be able to see you. The good thing is that people won't be able to see you, Rommel, because we're not recording audio or uh video, it's just audio.

SPEAKER_07 2:08:53

No, you know what else is audio? Hello.

SPEAKER_10 2:08:56

Hi, Matt! Your connection's up, your connection's off, buddy. It's out? Reconnecting. No, you're cutting out. The connection's really bad. Turn off the video.

SPEAKER_02 2:09:07

Maybe the video's a problem. This is probably the most unprofessional podcast I've done yet so far, but it had to happen.

SPEAKER_05 2:09:13

Well, I'm glad we were there for it.

SPEAKER_02 2:09:16

There we go. Alright.

SPEAKER_10 2:09:18

There you go. Yeah, I can hear you.

SPEAKER_08 2:09:25

Hello. What's up, man? How are you doing? Pretty good, you know.

SPEAKER_07 2:09:35

Why do dogs have feathers on their tail?

SPEAKER_10 2:09:47

You missed the story we were talking about the time that uh you went to Darkells with Matt.

SPEAKER_07 2:09:54

Fuck, dude, yeah. Made it rain on some fucking man titties.

SPEAKER_08 2:10:02

I remember that. That was a good time.

SPEAKER_10 2:10:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:10:05

I was talking about the time also because I was like, because he's talking about how you were at first the guy was like rushing up on you, and you were like backing up, backing up, backing up. I'm like, that's kind of funny because uh Rommel's a little bit different now. We were at a hotel after a night of playing a show on tour, and Rommel came in with Brick playing some loud 70s style porn dance music, and Rommel's in a silver to thong G string, dancing from one bed to the other, jumping all over Pete, like brushing up against him.

SPEAKER_07 2:10:34

Flipping my dick around, yeah. Well, and it was funny before we went to Dark Cells, because yeah, that's uh that was Randy, wasn't it? Yeah, that was Randy. Yeah, and I I called my mom. I'm like, Mom, you've been to Dark Cells before, right? She's like, Yeah, yeah, I I've been there once. And I was like, what's it like? He's she's all, dude, you are gonna see the most beautiful women you've ever seen in your life. And I was like, fuck, dude, I'm gonna get the boner for the wrong reason. And then we get there and it's like, all right, I get it. I think I I spread all the ones around on that one. It was the redhead with all the freckles. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was whipping the hair and I the yellow bikini top. Yeah. I don't even remember what songs.

SPEAKER_02 2:11:22

They sing, do they sing or do they do karaoke there? Like what?

SPEAKER_07 2:11:25

Flipsing shit. Yeah, it's lipsing. It's just like a whole like show. Kind of like RuPaul's shit. You were fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 2:11:32

You were mentioning what what were you mentioning about Bridgeport Stars?

SPEAKER_02 2:11:35

I tried bringing that up. I don't know if it Matt remembered.

SPEAKER_07 2:11:38

I honestly see all dude, those dudes had a I don't understand how they do it, but they got good cleavage in that place. No matter how ugly they are. Fair. Somehow they do it. The bridge oh, that's when uh Matt picked me up for a work tour. Yeah. You picked me up outside of that Motel 6 outside of Bridgeport Stars. Yeah, yeah. I just did a bachelor party the night before.

SPEAKER_05 2:11:58

Yeah, and you were wearing. A shirt that I probably shouldn't say on out loud. What the iFuck Retards? Yeah. Jesus.

SPEAKER_10 2:12:06

Wow. I'm about to edit out that edit that out. I was trying to be delicate, Cody. So you guys went to Warp Tour after that? Like he picked you up to go to Warp Tour?

SPEAKER_05 2:12:15

Yeah, we went to Warp Tour. He wore that shirt the entire time. Did what did anyone come up to you and give you shit for it?

SPEAKER_07 2:12:21

No, but I stole a shit ton of sunglasses.

SPEAKER_10 2:12:23

Yeah, that's absolutely he did. Some things never change, huh?

SPEAKER_07 2:12:27

That was a bender nice. But yeah, we went back and what interviewed people or some shit like that. Just sort of doing like the summer slaughter.

SPEAKER_08 2:12:34

Yeah, yeah. What what year was that? What what what warp tour was that? Yeah, 2009 or 10. Okay. That was a good time.

SPEAKER_02 2:12:46

I was gonna say that that was probably a good time to go to the warp tour around that time frame.

SPEAKER_07 2:12:49

Oh yeah, sorry. Oh yeah. Warp tour was awesome for for that day. It was. That was a good that was a good day. The Summer Slaughter show is a good day too. I don't remember the Summer Slaughter show. I got to watch Decapitated Side Stage, dude.

SPEAKER_05 2:13:03

That was Oh, that's right. I was thinking of was that at Hawthorne?

SPEAKER_07 2:13:08

No, that was the Roseland.

SPEAKER_05 2:13:09

Okay, uh the one I was thinking of was the one at at Hawthorne. Because there was the Summer Slaughter the year before that was at Hawthorne, I think.

SPEAKER_07 2:13:16

Probably.

SPEAKER_05 2:13:17

I don't remember.

SPEAKER_02 2:13:18

They did do one, I remember, and then they also was it Sounds of the Underground? They did they did a Sounds of the Underground type type of tour too in that.

SPEAKER_07 2:13:25

There was a Sounds of the Underground. Yeah, that tour was around for a little bit. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Hell yeah, dude. Good to see you, Matt, dude. Yeah, good to see you, man. Yeah, big beard. I actually uh I was shaving my head and shit the other day and kind of did a little accidental. Yeah. So I had to take like uh like yeah, like one of those like sea creatures that you get out of the thing with the big fucking eyes and the like shit ton of chins. That's what I look like.

SPEAKER_10 2:13:53

It's kind of like the uh the boomers when they look at their phone and they don't realize that their their phone cameras on.

SPEAKER_07 2:13:58

Yeah. My neck looks like a vagina.

SPEAKER_10 2:14:03

Man. We just we've been all over the board.

SPEAKER_02 2:14:06

We just we talked about uh actually we opened up with uh the first time that I ever heard of Alloy Podcast was when he was interviewing you guys when you were in Still Dead, and then over at the uh you guys were at the mall, and then when you guys were um when I was there filming, video filming, you guys do an Alloy podcast with Wild Boar Canary at uh Liberty Spirit and then Beast Band.

SPEAKER_08 2:14:26

You guys gave Beast Band some beer.

SPEAKER_07 2:14:28

Mm-hmm. Give that band a lot of beer. Yeah, we did. Yeah, not just at the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 2:14:35

Yeah, well we were we were also talking about how back in the day we'd there was always like shows that we'd go to, like uh at the wasteland and all the craziness that would happen there.

SPEAKER_07 2:14:43

And kind of back when the music scene was booming.

SPEAKER_02 2:14:46

Yeah, when there was actually when there actually was a music scene.

SPEAKER_07 2:14:49

Yeah, people had venues and people like to come out to shows and do all that cool shit. People still go to shows. I don't know. I mean, like I figure these days they just have a camera and they can just live stream it. Yeah, that's fair. It's like, hey, you want pit tickets, you can get uh live stream pit tickets.

SPEAKER_02 2:15:06

Yeah, I I would say around here there's really not unless a big band's coming through, there's not really much. Like, there's no venues in Salem for one, for two, like in Portland, like as soon as they open, they close down and shit. So it's like there's when people ask me, like, what's the scene like in Portland? Like, I don't know. I'm not I'm not even a part of it. I don't really play we don't play around here. Like we we promote and we write music around here and we make videos, but we don't we don't really play shows here. We we try to play them away from here just because there's not really much of a scene here.

SPEAKER_07 2:15:34

There isn't, and it's it's very sad. It's like yeah, after the pandemic shit, everything has kind of dropped off, and then nothing ever picked back up. Everyone's still trying to play and all that stuff, but there's nowhere. And then I don't know, I guess there needs to be a revolution. Yeah, something.

SPEAKER_02 2:15:48

Yeah, yeah, something needs to happen because it's I mean, it doesn't help that we don't have a radio station either.

SPEAKER_07 2:15:53

Yeah, dude. I mean, you have the brew, which is based out of Portland now. I don't think it's out of Eugene anymore. Or I don't know. So it's out of Portland. It's out of Portland. Yeah, I want to say it was in Vancouver. Was it in Vancouver? It used to be out of Eugene, wasn't it? The brew with when it was the donkey show and shit?

SPEAKER_05 2:16:09

Uh no, that was a different radio station.

SPEAKER_07 2:16:11

Is that K Duck? Yeah, that was on K Ducky. K-Fly. They're all no, that's Craig the Dog Face Pork Chop. Yeah, it was K Fly. 105 101.5 the brew. I think it was based out of Eugene, and then they closed, but then someone picked them up, and they're in and Tanner's still on it, and Drew's still on it. They have their own little shows and shit, but they it's just a basic rock station, like K Duck, like 94.7. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:16:36

Wasn't wasn't it K-Fly down in Eugene or or that area? Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 2:16:39

Kf that's it. K-Fly. Yeah. It was 94.7, I think. Something like that. 94.7. I remember that. That was there for a long time. And there's no 101. Now it's just like, I don't know, taking AM shit.

SPEAKER_02 2:16:51

And it's not necessarily that the that the radio stations helped a lot with the local bands, but they would help that the bands would come by because the big bands would come through and they would the radio stations would help promote it and they would bring people in. And then sometimes they'd allow local bands to come out there and open up the show, and that would kind of help the bands. And then they'd have like that midnight show where between nine and twelve they'd play some maybe some some of the bigger local acts.

SPEAKER_07 2:17:15

Yeah, so like with uh KOFO, like every time a big show would come through. Like I remember when reinventing seal came through, they had Vinny and Dime and shit on there on the and they're doing interviews about the show the day of, and like, yeah, come on out, and it was like live on air, and it was fucking sweet, and that's when it always came through. And I remember the brew, yeah, that was KFO. KFO is that's dude straight to the heart right there. Yeah. KFO's old school. It really used to have a thing around midnight. They would play local band areas and they would have like an hour-long shit, and they would just play everyone around. Like Norwell's New World Center was on there. I remember I was printing t-shirts one night down a courtware, and then I fucking heard Still Dead come on. And I was like, what the fuck? And I was like, what what what the hell is this? And then uh and then it was like, yeah, like late night, like local radio for bands and shit. I was like, oh dude, that's badass. But yeah, I haven't heard anything like that anymore. Everything's in it. Yeah, you know what you gotta start doing is you gotta start putting everything on cassette tapes and just doing the old trade-offs, yeah, like the old school days.

SPEAKER_10 2:18:19

Yeah, it's not gorilla content. Why don't we just go back to HTRAX? HTRAX and just I mean, really? Make it impossible, make it a mission for the people that get it. They have to go find a way to play it, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_07 2:18:33

Like it impossible Tattoo the Earth 2001, walking around, and that's like uh that big tattoo the earth that KFO put on two stages like Slayer, Primus, Sepultura, Megadeth, STP. Fucking everybody was on that. And Mudvain is like when they're that was after they did the show with Slipknot at the Roseland and whatever when they blew up. But they're they had people handing out cassette tapes of like uh dig and fucking death blooms. Demos, yep. Yeah, but it was on cassette, yeah. And and that's those were accessible.

SPEAKER_02 2:19:09

Yeah. Oh, that's cool. That's old school.

SPEAKER_07 2:19:11

Yeah, dude. That's old school.

SPEAKER_02 2:19:13

I love that. I man, I wish there's things that just I wish that we still had that we took for granted. Um, you know what? 10 to 20 years from now, we probably will be talking about how we had a good now, and then who knows what it's gonna be like in the future.

SPEAKER_10 2:19:26

That's what sucks.

SPEAKER_07 2:19:27

Right. You know, maybe it's just the old timer means like uh technology, yes, it does work and it benefits people, but that also doesn't. Man, our predecessors didn't have this luxury, and uh it worked. I don't know. There's like two different things.

SPEAKER_02 2:19:43

Well, there was value in music, there was value in your CD because when you bought it and you spent your 20 bucks or whatever, you were committed to that because you that was what you were stuck with until you got your next allowance money or whatever.

SPEAKER_07 2:19:54

So you knew when that CD came out and you're fucking you're at Sam Goody, eight o'clock in the morning.

SPEAKER_05 2:19:59

Absolutely. I remember standing in line for um like starting a line at my local, I don't even remember what it was called. It was like a record store for the uh As I Lay Dying Shadows Our Security record. Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:20:14

That's uh I man. I remember going to Warehouse Music in Salem and they would have like the U C D section. I I would spend hours there literally just looking through the metal section and then going to their little uh headphone section where they had like these five different CD players that you can uh listen to the CDs before you buy them and get them for whatever eight bucks, ten bucks.

SPEAKER_07 2:20:35

Shopco had that same thing too. And uh fuck what was the other one? It was Nexus Circus C was working there. Uh FYE, I think became warehouse music. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:20:44

They bounced around. Sam Goody, FYE, warehouse music, all of them were just like basically the same. It was always that same building.

SPEAKER_07 2:20:50

Uh me and Tony Melby, we used to go and we used to go in and get like previews. We used to go previews of uh CDs and shit. And uh me and Tony Melby, we previewed Slayered Diabolis and Musica. And uh yeah, we we both just took our allowance money and we bought it the same. Nice. Like right there, and I still have that CD. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 2:21:11

I love it.

SPEAKER_07 2:21:12

Justin put some lights up in his gym. Look at that. Look at that.

SPEAKER_03 2:21:16

Wow. I'm at two inches over too far though. Is that regulation?

SPEAKER_10 2:21:25

Is that regulation?

SPEAKER_02 2:21:27

Are you gonna get a fine if someone comes in there and does an inspection?

SPEAKER_03 2:21:30

Is that a goal regulation or what?

SPEAKER_02 2:21:33

Alright, guys. Well, uh, we are over the hour, and uh I gotta do it.

SPEAKER_07 2:21:37

I'm sorry, I snuffed a little sooner. I was getting a pump in.

SPEAKER_02 2:21:40

It's all good. I'm glad you were able to make it and say hello, and you know. Maybe we'll see Matt at an American overdose show sometime.

SPEAKER_10 2:21:48

We'll come down and play your area. Or maybe we've been wanting to play Corvallis, so we just play in your town.

SPEAKER_07 2:21:53

Absolutely. You're back.

SPEAKER_10 2:21:57

You're back.

SPEAKER_07 2:21:58

Well, I was coming back. I mean, maybe we just have like a maybe you should have like an old school podcast and we just have everyone on it. Bullshit.

SPEAKER_02 2:22:05

That'd be fun. Be good times.

SPEAKER_07 2:22:07

Nobody pooping their pants, though. No.

SPEAKER_02 2:22:09

All right. All right, so I'm gonna end this now. Uh, thank you guys so much for being on here. And that is the end of segment two with my guest, Matt Jacobs. Thank you so much for being on the show, Matt. You are a killer dude, and it was a great conversation. I enjoyed that one different than the normal uh podcast I've been doing recently. So thank you for coming on and sharing what's going on with you. Uh I want to give a shout-out, like I always do, to my contributors, Mr. Eric Sheets and King John. They are contributors to this podcast because, as I mentioned before, this podcast costs money to use the programs for editing and uploading and having these episodes for everyone to listen to. So if you would like to donate to this podcast, you can do one-time donations, you can do monthly subscriptions to it. Any amount is okay to do. There's not a set amount. I appreciate it we appreciate anything that you can throw at this. There's a link on the Buzz Sprouts channel that you can you can uh donate or become a contributor. So huge shout out to Eric and King John. Thank you guys so much. We hit over 300 downloads. Uh, what was it, this week, last week, something like that. So everyone that's listening out there and supporting this podcast, sharing it, contributing by leaving your thoughts on the questions of the week. I appreciate you all. This podcast is to help others to see things from a different lens for others to get advice or maybe consider how things might be or what have you. So uh these are healthy conversations. I love this. Make sure that you are subscribing to the podcast on Spotify or whatever uh method you choose to listen to this. We appreciate you guys, and I hope you have a great killer rest of your week.

SPEAKER_01 2:23:49

Get your mind out of the gutter and pass the butter.

SPEAKER_02 2:23:52

Is that your quote for the day? Well, we're out, and uh since it is stake and blow job day, we got business to handle. Have a great one, everybody.

SPEAKER_04 2:24:00

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